Today on the podcast, we are talking about making transitions in our careers, whether it's the transition of starting a career, or shifting the focus of our work from one subject to another, like going from weddings to photographing families. And although all of us have made transitions at some point in our lives, right? Sometimes those transitions are graceful. Other times, they're
much more difficult. But most of us tend to approach transitions as just we dive in, and we do whatever we need to do to get through that transition, while we kind of keep our eyes focused on the road ahead, right. And that road will inevitably lead to other transitions in the
future. So the reason that I'm so excited to chat with photographer Mary Otanez today is that she has actually taken the time to look backward at her own transitions, and deep dive on what has worked and what hasn't worked, so that she could then create a roadmap for navigating future transitions
more reliably, gracefully. And she is sharing the framework that she's developed to help not only herself, but other photographers be more intentional, when they're making those moves, whether they're big moves, or small moves. And that framework is absolutely genius. It's the sort of, you know, actionable, measurable plan that I absolutely love, but applied to a subject that often feels really nebulous and really blind. And so I know that she is going to give us all some real
aha moments. Before I Cue the music, though, I want to remind you, if you haven't already to go sign up for the live training I am offering later this month, it's called "Planning For Profit: A Step By Step Guide To Organizing Your Products And Pricing For Holiday Sale Success". Say that five times fast, and it's totally free. But you do have to grab your spot. So I will put a link in the show
notes. Or you can go directly to https://www.thiscantbethathard.com/register to get your name on the list. And then I'll send you an email reminder and all that sort of stuff. I will have a replay, but it'll be for a limited time. So you want to make sure that you get your name on the list. I hope I get to see you there. Welcome to this can't be that hard. My name is Annemie Tonken. And I help photographers run profitable, sustainable
businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it. And I can show you how. Mary It is so great to see you. And so fun to have you on this can't be that hard. Welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Excellent. Well, I am. I feel like this is such a great topic. And when you and I were sort of chatting back and forth about transitions in general and your story, I felt like there are so many people, whether they are just starting out in their business. So they're sort of transitioning into photography as a career or if they're in a place where they've been doing one kind of photography and they you know, are thinking about transitioning
to another. You and I were talking about how when you're going through those things, it can feel so just disorganized and blind, and how the gift of hindsight can really help us like those lessons can really help us. So I'm excited to share your story or for you to share your story. So actually, that's kind of where I want to jump in is like give us a little backstory on you and your career and the transitions that you have made over time.
Yes. Okay, of course. And I think I love the way first that you how you put it. It's like really perspective once you've been through something and then you can look back on it, you definitely can think oh, yeah, I wish I had done this or wish I had done that. And I feel like I have 10 years of that. under my belt. I have been through two transitions in my life. I used to be an art producer at the Martin Agency, which is one of the top five advertising
agencies in the US. And we did amazing work really fun things. I basically was the orchestrator of getting creative ideas to come to life. I would hire the photographer, I would, you know, schedule everything. I was very organized and make it to the shoot date to make that art happen. I loved that job. I loved that job. But to try to make a long story short, I went on a mission trip. And in order to do that to go to Vietnam, it was a big, big trip with my
church in order to do that. I needed to raise money and a lot of it. And also, uh, you know, some people were doing bake sales and this and I was a fine art major in photography. And so I thought I'll dust off my old camera, I will take some pictures, I'll have people, you know, just donate money. I'm not even asking for a specific amount, get your pictures and give me whatever you think I'm worth. Totally not what I recommend for anyone. Right?
Right. But, and I actually ended up raising so much money, it helps other people and helped other unit. So it was such a wonderful thing. But what was what I did not expect is that when I came back from that mission trip, I had an inbox full of people saying, hey, I've heard you're doing some photographs, and I loved so-and-so's photographs, can you shoot our family? Can you do this. And I eventually just started creating kind of a side
business. Sure. extra cash, fun spending money, I was having a great time. I also was kind of starting to burn the candle on both ends a little bit with full time job and this gig but I was loving it. And then eventually I started thinking I love it so much. Maybe I should make a business out of this. And just for pure money reasons, I'll admit it, I went into weddings, I went into weddings, because while sure they're pretty A) they're pretty. They seem really fun. And you can make great
money. And that's so I thought, okay, if I can do this, and I had wedding experience prior to that, so if I can do a full time job, and do weddings on the weekend, and if I could really make this work, I can quit my job. Yeah, that's what I did. And I have to say, that is my first transition. And it was the easiest. I didn't have kids. I was freshly married. I had all the time in the world. My husband is also an entrepreneur, so he was always like, go get 'em. Yeah, you know, cheering me
on. Yeah, I had the time I had the evenings I had the energy. And then I did weddings. I loved that quit my job, started my wedding business. And it was very successful. I actually made more than I did in my other job. I loved it. The other part about it of this transition is I never had to market because I had great relationships with planners who are basically like your agents, which is so you know, great. You had work come to you,
right. And I was gonna say, as an art producer, I'm sure that those wedding planners loved you because you were probably like really great with that communication and great with showing them like oh, you need organization, I can meet you and then some with that,
oh my gosh, so much so and I actually would sit down with planners, you know, we would have, you know, in sit and talk about schedules. And then I understood that point of a production a wedding is a production. Absolutely. And so for them for me to realize that alongside with them. They were like, Oh my god, yes, she's going to help me with my timing, and she's going to cut it and, and encourage my client to also really listen to them. So it was a real blessing. It was great.
All my strengths came into one place, which was wonderful. Now, successful business making more than I did before. I mean, the peak of my game, and then I got pregnant.
Dun dun DAAA!.
I really like this is a lot of women's stories. It is it is and I got pregnant. And of course this whole time I was like, you're booking out a year ahead of time, sure, you know, a year or sometimes even two. And so I was pregnant and looking at a year ahead of me and I was like, Oh my goodness, I have a lot of weddings. But I can do this. I can do this. About halfway through my pregnancy. I had a lot of physical issues where I ended up having a lot of
spasms. I couldn't walk. I had a lot of just physical barriers. And I had about 23 more weddings to go. So I had to go through a lot of stress mentally and physically, in order to get those weddings done out the door. So this whole time in my head. I'm thinking I'm never doing this again. I will do when I grow my family. I could never do this again. Of course I am a big believer of mindsets. Yes, I could have done that again. Would it have been painful? Yes. Right. So I had my daughter
which was wonderful. But then I had a wonderful another year of weddings because I had planned out sure quite a bit of time. And during that time I'm you know, breastfeeding and pumping in closets that brought that I didn't bring her to the weddings but I'm breastfeed pumping in closets at while shoving down food, hoping my milk supply
stays up. You know, just all these things that like I wanted to be a great mom and I wanted to feed my baby and I wanted that And I'm stuck in this world that I have these huge days and physically daunting and it became too much I kind of I don't think I resented my clients, but I almost had resentment for some reason. Like it wasn't worth my clients, but it was this world was different than mine now. Right? And they
were incongruent. And it was time for me to start thinking about, you know, making another transition. Now, it wasn't really a sit down talk like we're talking about, I'm going to make a transition and let me think about the process. Right? I really just said, I need to get out of this. And let me start shooting some families and weddings oh not weddings exceed a families newborns, maternity,
all right. So I started doing all of that for free, which is, I will say later, something I'm, you know, probably should not have done. I'm glad I did though, because I it was some kind of basis I needed. But in doing all of that I was building trying to build a portfolio during that time. And kind of doing things a little backwards. I really didn't know why I was shooting, like what my voice is with, you know, connecting with mothers. And my, I don't know, almost my style. Everything felt
incongruent. It was really family work that looked like my wedding work so it didn't feel right. It didn't feel I felt... it didn't feel right. And then I also because I felt like I was a newbie. I didn't charge anything. But I wasn't a newbie. I was at top of my game, not only in my career as a producer, but my career as a wedding photographer, I had everything going for me. And because I started somewhere new, I thought, Oh, I gotta be I gotta be a freebie. I have to start at
the bottom. I have to start at the bottom. And that's like the biggest misconception. Yeah. So that's kind of where I also went wrong as well. So started, you know, with where I was, I thought I was down here. And then I just built a portfolio not with any type of I don't know, like a voice. What am I doing here? What am I What am I saying to you? What am I how am I serving you as a family? What you know? And why am I doing this? Yeah.
Well, and I want to, I want to examine a little bit what the reason for that kind of loss of voice might have been and what I'm noticing that is a similarity between those two transitions. Well, it's both a similarity and dissimilarity. But they were both because you were coming from a place of like, Well, no, actually, I guess I'll call this a
difference. When you made the transition from your original career into photographing weddings, that was sort of an aspirational change you were excited about it, you didn't have to do it, you got a good job you were whatever versus that second transition was really like your feet were a little bit to the fire with your schedule and the demands your new demands as a mom and all
that sort of stuff. So you were making that it was it's almost the scarcity and abundance difference where like the first transition was made with a sense of like, I have space to do this and I can do it on my own time. Versus the second one where you were just trying to kind of like muscle through or something.
Yeah, gosh, it's so accurate and I would even say it's almost It was almost like a knee jerk reaction, right? Everything was a knee jerk reaction. Okay, so I need to have maybe two more sessions. Oh, I didn't like that one session they need to do another one. I've got to throw it up on the website now and then I would try to redesign a website based on nothing was like polishing a turd you know? What was a wasting hours? I mean, I'm talking hours of time. Yeah, that could have been actually
redirected into. Okay, Mary slow down. Where let's discover yourself. Let's discover what it is. What do you want now? You know, it was you know, so I went into all these knee jerk reactions of and then Oh, God, don't even get me started on pricing. You would be so so ashamed of me.
No shame. I totally get it.
But it was a place of let me just figure out a cost that number sounds good. Let me put that there. Oh, no, people aren't booking me like in a week of me making that do pricing. You know, let me change it again. And I just such was a knee jerk reaction type of transition. And yeah, a mindset of like, I have to make this work, right? Because I want it to I don't want my business to stop. I'm like, I love this. He knew what I was doing. Right.
And Dave chain reaction of really hard things to go through for sure.
Yeah. And that's not I mean, obviously, you have gotten to a place where you have made it work, and it's working great for you now. But again, that gift of hindsight, it's like, Okay, well, I made it through, I'm still standing here on the other side. But this could have been a much easier transition If I had known certain things, or if I had taken the time to, like, give myself a little space and do this in the proper order.
Absolutely. And you talked a little bit to me before we were recording about what you see as kind of the three phases of transition. So how do you see that or what what should the three phases be versus the like, I will just sweat this out until I make it happen.
You can totally do that you can get God bless you, you know, that's a bumpy, adventurous ride. It is. I would definitely say in hindsight,
yes. Now, I think one of my let me take one little quick step back is that one of my pivotal points was where I started to actually make sense of this transition and make very smart business choices, was joining The Family Narrative, which is a community which I will talk about in the phases of joining a community that aligned with your beliefs and is inspiring and is educational, whether the community is a separate treat, or, or if that community is literally some people in your
community, your actual like vicinity, you know, your city. That was key for me to start. That is when that Family Narrative retreat, it's even on my highlights, if you go through my highlights on my stories on Instagram, one of them the very last one from that trip is a picture outside of an airplane, my airplane ride. I was crying on that airplane ride out of relief, that I finally felt like I understood where I need to start. And that's within me, I hid behind a lot of my wedding
work. I didn't need to show anyone about me or my personal life, or my, I didn't think anyone cared. And this was really like, you've got to, who are you? And what do you believe in and put it out there. And it felt so good to me, especially being a new mother. And I felt like I was different. I had a voice. I had things I cared about. So with that being said that Why? And that discovery part of me is is where we're going to start with our phases. So like how we how we talked
about our phases? Yeah. One of the biggest. So I took a, you know, a moment when I was building this to just think, if I were, you know, someone, a friend, you know, on the other side, what would they want to hear? How would this be less overwhelming? How could this be something digestible? So of course, breaking it down into
three really does help. And having a discovery phase, that's probably going to be the most important phase, we have a discovery phase, we have a creation phase, where we are actually implementing things and making moves. And then you're gonna have a launch phase, where that's like a refinement area, where you're really gonna start to show yourself to the world, this is where you're going to market yourself, this is where people are really going to start
to see you, right? But like, what I did as a mistake is, back when I started, I was already starting at phase three, right? I was trying to redo my website, and should I do redo my logo? And should I do all my goodness, I had other things I needed to do before that, right. So
that is such a common thing. It's like, especially as creatives, whether you're coming from a place of scarcity or abundance, you know, fear or excitement, oftentimes, the first thing that I see people doing is like investing a lot of time and sometimes a lot of money in, you know, fancy new websites and logos and branding and all that sort of stuff. And it's like, yeah, that should really be kind of the final puzzle piece. Total once you figured the rest of it out,
but totally and you can actually use Sure, go ahead and start there. You're just wasting hours, if not days, weeks of your time, plus 1000s of dollars or something you'll redo two years from now. Right? Right, right. So take the time now take a deep breath. And let's start with the discovery phase. Okay, so tell me about that. The discovery phase kind of how I started it is I just really want you know, any photographer to start with why? why are they doing what they do?
Maybe it's not even photography, God bless them. Maybe they think that it's photography. Really, it's a deep dive, it's a deep dive into like, why am I doing what I'm doing? Why? Why do I love photography? What did it What? What moves me? What do I would you say? No, no, would you say not just pictures but like, see, you know, so that discovery process is really big. Now you can go in this, like we can deep
dive further into this. But it would be like, you can hire someone to help you find your voice and your creative message and what drives you what moves you sometimes that discovery phase can just actually be within you, you could just say, Alright, I'm going to go on Pinterest, and I'm going to create a board and I'm going to pin anything that makes me move .. that makes that makes my he rt stir. I love that this is t is is what I connect with that t
is is me. sorry words or you know, all kinds of things good quotes or just even if it's a vibe, just like digging a vibe that's happened in you know, and maybe you just look at your all of a sudden you look at your because I've done this, I did this myself. And I looked at my work and I was like, Oh, it's all about emotion. And it's very inward. It's it's very deep. And it's that's what moves me. But in a funny way, it's all in a
very minimalist way. I love minimal lines, I love minimal this like I like clean, monochromatic like so there's I kind of had a blend of those things. So actually seeing that reflected seeing your what you love reflected in front of you, you can start to understand what it is that stirs you and makes you move in what you love. So that discovery phase is really, really important. Well, that part that portion of why. Another part of the discovery portion that we'll call that the
creative part. And then like another part is definitely the financial part. Now it's a business, okay, so if we're gonna make this a business, this is where I totally was. So off and so wrong. But I wish what I would have done and what I eventually did is actually find there are different ways you can run a business. And there's different ways in which you can have a business model especially and photography world, how are you going to present your
pricing? How is it going to work for you and your family? Everybody's journey is so different. Some people have six children, some people have no children, some people have, you know, I don't know 10 other businesses, I don't know, you have different everybody has different financial needs. Everybody has different lifestyle needs and goals. So every all of that is going to look different. So your business model is going to look different, right will not look like somebody else's because
it's got to work for you. So being able to just research I'm not even talking about implementing anything at the discovery phase. Research what people do. Research some business models don't even go down the photography route. Go find a business class, find something that just teaches you just general know how you know most of us did not go into the business. So to be able to understand that and just wrap your head around it
I find that a lot of people get confused especially earlier in their career between when it comes to researching business models when they're looking for mentors, oftentimes they will look for someone whose photographs resonate with them which I get but at the same time that can be misleading because you know sometimes you're ...anyway I'm just putting an aside in there to like make sure that you're doing your research on you know there are plenty of photographers out there who are
super talented who are not running businesses that are working. And then there are people out there whose photos may not land with you at all so I love your idea about going to like take a business class that's not even photography related necessarily because that that might just take the confusing layer of like well I do or don't like their style or their work just off the table altogether
correct until the end you can even just make a list of like I loved these ones didn't love these ones. This one interests me but maybe I could take a little bit of this and a little bit this because this fits my lifestyle better right? So you can cater something to yourself. Yeah, that will take time because even part of the business models too I feel like also include, for example, Simple Sales System which I adopted as part of my business model which thank Jesus for you.
Just a note but be able to do that, but also that's connected in the photography where it's connected to a gallery system that's different, but helps with automations and things. All of that take time but I loved that this financial business model that you have created. also had an element of the client gallery. And that further helps your business goals and your, you know, showing different pricing collections up, you know, upscaling, you know by
product. And anyway, fantastic. And I loved that some people they don't want to do they want to do a different route totally fine. But just finding what's going to work for you and your family and for your personal goals is really, really important. And I would say the other just part of the discovery phase is just community. Go and just find different things. There's so many photography groups, right? And find the ones that inspire you and join a couple you may not vibe with
them. You can quit those and then do another one. And I'm doing a few and I think I found my home with The Family Narrative. Yeah, I think that that, for sure is my home. It's my Those are my people. Yes, you gotta find your people. And so you can talk to and I not only do I have The Family Narrative, but I also have incredibly tight friendships. And I mark, do you know what Marco Polo is? Uh, yeah. Okay, so Marco Polo is a video messaging back and forth.
And I do that with two other photographers that are also moms, we don't have time to FaceTime at the same time. So we just leave messages back and forth to one another. And it is the biggest blessing because it's like, Hey, what do you think about this, and you look at that when you have time, and I don't know, and they get back to you. So it's like, accountability, friendship, and a space in which you don't feel like you live on a little island.
Yeah. And I love I love what you're saying. And I think that, you know, for some people in person, retreats, and conferences are maybe especially at the beginning, out of reach, or whatever. I second what you're saying, exactly, I do think that some people just stick to things like Facebook groups, or like my community is the people that I follow on
Instagram. And I would encourage you to take a page out of Mary's book here to like, take it a step deeper, take it a step further, like try and whether there are people who, even if you only know them online, you know, having some sort of like, off the platform back and forth, where you're marcopoloing or texting or whatever, taking it to that with just one or two people is really a whole different ballgame.
It's a whole different ballgame. And just the ideas that come from it. And just in daily struggles do like, gosh, I'm just not feeling it today. And this editing is killing me, but just be able to vent to someone that knows exactly what you're going through is that's that's air to your lungs, you know, to my business lungs. So the next phase, that's discovery phase, a lot of deep diving finding things that connect with you finding things that vibe with
you. So once you're out of that discovery phase, and like I'm getting a good handle of who I am, why I'm doing what I'm doing, who are my people, and how I want to run my business, then you can go into the
creation phase. And that creation phase is going to be the part where you're going to start putting your feet to the fire a little bit, you're gonna start investing just a little bit here, you know, I would say in the beginning, you know, you need to make sure, with community, you're going to commit to that community, you know, you need to make sure that that community is, maybe it's
connecting to the retreat. So maybe you did find The Family Narrative, but you're like, Oh, I can't afford it can't tried to do something where you can connect and actually, you know, bite the bullet and do it. For the business side of things. That's when you're going to commit to it. Like sure you looked at all these things, you make good bad lists of what you want to do, which one, now it's
time to commit. So if, for example, the Simple Sales System is the way that you want to go, it's just it's an investment, but it's not a huge investment. It's an investment. Got to do it. You got to do it. And then you're going to do the homework. You know, we're doing these systems systems, you know, they take homework, and they take you doing, you know, so these things take time. So to be able to do that transferring even to a gallery, I used Pixie set ...was
it Pixie Set? Yeah, I think I used Pixie set and went to Pic-Time. So that takes time that takes him to, you know, move over the galleries and things like that.
So there's so many learning curves like that is it can be exhausting. There's no question that in that building phase of any business, you're spending Yes, money, but also a lot of time. And that commitment has to be there for that.
Yes, absolutely. So but it's good because you feel like okay, this is the route I need to go. It's just gonna take time, this whole process. I'll take a quick quick step out. This whole process of transition, the word transition is literally a it's a journey you have to go across it's an action it's takes time transition is not like a fairy
godmother, right? Like you did as a spin around and sparkles and then you're something new right now like, not it's this is part of the journey and part of my my My care for other photographers and being doing it such a painful way, is tried to make this actually not just a seamless way, but actually something enjoyable, right? So back down rabbit hole. So the other thing would be the art part of it all. So portfolio building. So now you know what you want to do now you know what
you'd like. And now you know what you're drawn to and you love it. I want to create this and I'm so excited. This is the part where you're getting excited, because you're like, I mean, for me, I actually was kind of embarrassed, kind of, I think that I liked showing a lot of skin for maternity, like in a weird way. I was like, Oh, am I being like, too much my two pG No,I agree with you.
13 like I was gonna like, you know, I live in Richmond, Virginia, as is more conservative area, you know, and here I am like, let's take your clothes off, it's beautiful! God who knows I was really scare to go that route. But then I f und my people I found people hat wanted to do that I would r ach out to people that I knew her like doulas that were mot ers that were more into the hi
pie dippie. And that that's what I'm into so and just connecting ike a mother earth with your b by, you know, like I just I, hat stuff moves me and it exists So I made sure that when I was building that part, or wh n I first started, I didn't do t is. But now when I got intentio al, I did this contacting the pe ple that you want to shoot kno ing they're going to give you
hat you want. Even if these ones are free, I put this out there, ven if these ones are free, bec use you want a you want them t do exactly what you want. For our portfolio purposes. I feel ike that's okay. Yeah. You c uld totally be like, Mary, get off my podcast. But but you don't need 10 of these 20 of these. You need, you know, 3? 5? Like, not much. Not much, because you only need to show so many and you can have a
banging portfolio. Yeah. And it's exactly the vibe and the mood that you and you then that's because you'll start showing that that's you're going to be attracting clients like that. It's clients. And it totally works. Because I obviously did that. And I get those people that are like, Oh, and I want a bathtub shot. And I want to do this and like, Oh, my people are here. They found me.
And you attracted them. I mean, they found you because you drew a line in the sand and said, This is what I do. This is what my work looks like. And you were intentional about, about creating a portfolio that would advertise that. That was when you were saying the whole thing about like, maybe you'll say this is wrong and get off my podcast. The only follow up question I was gonna have, and this is actually a question for kind of all of the or at least
the first two phases. The thing that mistake one mistake that I see people make when they're starting out or they're transitioning is that they get they're like, really happy to jump into the portfolio building phase or whatever. But then they get scared to graduate from that they feel you know, it's like, it's very safe to not charge or to, you know, call up your dream clients and be like, we're going to do this, but I'm going to do
it for free. all fine and good when you're doing those first two or three, but then you get into the people who have photograph 20 families or moms or whatever, for free. And I'm just like, no, you're treading water. This is not you're not making progress this point.
Yes. And I'll have to say the word that came up to my mind was discipline and boundaries. Those are really harsh words, I feel like in a way, but what they are, are healthy words. So when it comes to and I think that's the beauty about the creation phase is that you've already kind of committed
to a business plan. So you know already your numbers and you know your expenses at this one while you're creating that portfolio, your know your expenses, and you know what you need to make for your family and you know what you need to make, to have an extra little bit of savings in your account to go to Disney World or like you, you know, you you know those numbers so like, you know, homegirl you can't or homeboy like all of you, you cannot continue to do them for free because now you
know, these are the goals I need to make. So I need enough of this. I can kind of lightly put them on my Instagram obviously like there is a little bit of gray area and as to where you can start showing this work so people can get interested. But once people are interested, then
those are your prices. Those are your prices and you need to stick to it and you're gonna feel really insecure and There's going to be times where you don't get increase and you're going to really freak out and you're going to want to change it but hang in there don't do what I did and change your pricing like six times in a year right and keep doing the work keep doing the work keep working hard for it I eight will come to you I don't I think when you're developing that type of work
that you love and you're passionate about and you're killing it, people are going to pay for that Yeah. And within your your you know, business model that you have picked
well and especially if you've been that intentional about creating a business around a preconceived idea of a model where you're saying like I want to do high end work my website shows that this is high end the language that I use you know tells people without even any numbers or anything else that they're going to be spending a lot of money that whatever Yeah, that it does take intention to create that in a way that you don't have people who then you know, call you up
and say, Your prices are what?!"
Yeah, yeah, and I've had to learn the really hard way because I am definitely a softy but like people be like, Oh, it's too expensive. I'm like cool cut it in half for you. It's like I think it's actually I've had that reverse now where I when I've started to just say no these are my prices and think thank you and be okay that people don't call me back or And it is fun. But you're absolutely what you said earlier it's okay that I get a ghosted email or whatever and I'm okay
with that. Yeah, I'm okay with that because then the people that do come to me are willing to pay full price and really think it is exactly they're getting exactly what they're paying for and they're in they're happy about it right? And if not, hopefully more at that level Yeah, yeah, they
value it. And then like the third phase is really the launch so it's this is where you've got the business model you have your new work you know who you are, you have your community if people you're talking to and this part is like Okay, great, this is where the bigger money
investments come in. And it's so much smarter to do these at the end than in the in the earlier parts because you just have everything set and the big dollar things new logo, new branding new website those things are high dollar 1000s even I mean new equipment if you wanted to but that's further down the road but all all these things that are going to market you and show the new you you're gonna be feeling so much more grateful for your time and money because you just have a solid
foundation already and you can just this will be actually easy sometimes the websites and stuff are so hard because you just you don't know what to say and what what's my message and I don't know my work is not consistent enough well it will be if you do these things in somewhat of this
phase order. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah so that's that's the fun part that's fun because you can then really, you know, Hone into I don't know a great branding agency and I don't know and that's fun is absolutely right it's a it is less fun when you spend all that money the minute that you get an idea that you might want to start going into you want to switch to boudoir photos or something and you invest all this money into like a new website and branding etc etc etc. And then you start
portfolio building and at the end you're like so why am I doing this? Yeah all that work you did has to be redone because it's different from what your original like knee jerk.
Yes and then if you think about then your credit card bill is really high... the pressures on to make that work and so then you're in a desperate mode you're in that knee jerk reaction mode you're in that you know scarcity mode of Oh my God, but you know, I've been there you know, I understand that 100% so being able to know that you're moving forward with confidence and peace knowing that you have done the homework to get to this point is really solid. Yeah, and boy do I wish I
knew that before. Um, but yeah, and then and then it also goes into marketing as well. So launch stuff goes marketing emailers how you want to market to people. And let me just put this way too, that that in itself is a whole nother topic and a whole nother venture. I'm just a big believer and keep it simple. Everyone again, everyone's journey is different. No one's transitions gonna look the same. And in that place, for me, it's just going on plan throwing, you know, automated
posts for myself. Okay. I may not get 80 likes 100 likes or whatever, I'm not in it for that my purpose of that is I want an online portfolio. And if I can show my work consistently, consistently, and I just get 20 likes here and there, that's fine. I just want it to literally be the new age portfolio where someone's like, Oh, well, what's your Insta, you know, and boom, boom, boom, they can see work immediately. It's
imperfect. It is not curated gorgeous grids, I used to spend so much time on Yeah, it fits my life, it fits my life. Other people, they would be like, "What, Mary? Nope, you're missing out on big time here if blah blah blah". But for me, it works for my life, there's so many other places I need to spend my time and energy. So in that spot, keeping it simple. It's important.
Absolutely. And it I mean, as solopreneurs simplicity absolutely should be the goal in all the ways that it can be because because we want to be able to put our energy into the things that actually matter, the art that we're making, and the relationships that we're forming, and the time that we are able to stop working and spend with our families or, you know, travel or whatever it is.
So yeah, a lot of us get into this, because we're, we want a free schedule, and we want to pick and choose, but then all of a sudden, we find ourselves bogged down and stressed and, you know, but to be able to, yes, really take the time to build this foundation, and that have a simple directional way of doing things. It's going to help tremendously. And I think in the last part of the launch phase, for me, is what I call like a revisit, revisit and revise. So the transition actually never stops.
You know, we are all and in our personal lives. It's like a big existential comment. But like, you know, we're ever changing, we're ever evolving, we are ever tweaking, we're ever doing these things. So you're going to revisit discovery phase, sometimes in business, or in your personal work, or you're going to revisit discovery for your community, or two at a time. Or sometimes you have to go back and then tweak them. And it doesn't have to be this big long thing all over again, it
doesn't have to start over. But just know that I think I used to personally I joke that I am like a guilty Catholic. And so I was baptized Catholic, but I'm like, not total practicing Catholic, but I would feel so guilty so quickly for not doing something exactly like perfectly or done right or done. I don't know, I just felt shame, you know, for not getting things done the way
they need to be done. But in this transition, I think grace and understanding and embracing this imperfection that we all are is also very at this very deep, but it's it's gonna be your saving grace to during this time, like, Oh, you didn't meet that deadline? or that shoot didn't go as great as you thought? That's okay, you have another chance. You have another chance of doing that. It doesn't mean that you just like just threw down this transition down the trashcan.
You know, I love it just takes time.
Embracing the journey of the transition.
Yeah, I like that.
Yeah, it really is. I mean, an ongoing process you had written when we were writing back and forth I asked like if you could magically talk to you're just starting out as a photographer yourself, what insights or advice would you share? And you said, well, first you said take a financial course on how to run a business wisely.
And then you said I would also say that you will be so you were saying this to yourself, you will be quote starting your business maybe even a few times with pivots, transitions, etc. and may always feel like you're starting your business even almost 10 years in. And I think that I have a very similar I feel very similarly about my own business, like the course of my business and my story as a
photographer. But But whereas toward the beginning of my career, I felt like I was always looking to like "When am I going to get there? When am I going to arrive?" And it has taken a long time to get to a place where I can say you know what I love about being a photographer? I
will never arrive. At some time I will close my business down and I guess that will be some sort of arrival, but it is it's absolutely i mean it is the thing that I love as a creative person is that it doesn't stagnate and it doesn't sit still. I feel Like, it would probably be the indication to me that it was time to close my business if I wasn't going back and tweaking and refining, so I think that's...
And it would be concerned it would actually we should all look at it look at it this way. If you feel like you have arrived, I would question it. If you've arrived then it's that creation part has, I don't know, we are artists. Yeah, it's ever evolving. We're we are we are, to be creating, we are to be changing and there is art in that, you know, it's, it's a wonderful thing. We're changing.
I mean, there's so many different components of it to you know, your personal life, your, your, your goals, and your needs and everything. So yeah, it's, it's just inevitable, you're never going to arrive. So just enjoy
it. Well, Mary, what's the next transition coming your way?
Oh, wow. For me, I'm excited because I have always had a... so one of my top strengths. Number one, strength is empathy, and empathetic soul. I can understand where others are from. And during this process of transitioning, many people have seen me in my life go from, you know, producer to weddings, weddings to family. And each time it's been a success, maybe from weddings to family was a bit bumpy. But I
but I figured it out. Yeah. And I have a lot of people actually reach out to me and say, you know, how did you do that? Because I'm tired I'm tired of weddings, or I'm tired of my job? And how did you? How did you get there? And for me, you know, in a joking way, it's usually through a text, I'm like, Oh, girl, we need a phone call. This is a deeper topic,
you know? Well, I wanted in my next steps would be basically one-on-one mentorships with photographers, and or if you're not a photographer yet, wherever you are in your stage, to be
You're in your discovery phase. able to mentor and have a custom experience with each person. No transition is the same, no one s is going to look the sam . Everyone is also going to ta e different times. So I'm sti l fleshing that out, which is al o part of transition. Look at m , I it's not all put together a d I'm still transitioning in o this.
I'm in my discovery phase, but I know I want to do this because I care I care so much for my fellow photographers, and especially those starting out, that's just a passion of mine. I love
teaching. So I would love to be able to offer some type of one on one mentorship, where it's you get to choose based on your stage right now and time because some people, okay, you may not be married, or no kids, or you just have, you know, 10 nannies at home, you got all the time in the world, great, you're going to move a lot faster than someone with six kids and juggling two jobs, right? You
know, so being able to... No one thing is going to fit one person right there to be able to sit down with you and say, hey, let's have a discovery call just the two of us. Let me hear your story. Where do you want to be? How do you want to get there? And what's your ideal timeframe? And what's our realistic timeframe? Right? So that's the producer in me.
Well, and I do I love the fact that you are marrying kind of the two parts of your your two sort of different, but conjoining ...wow, I can't talk... where you've got that like real artist's heart and then empathy and the experience but you're also relying on the the more organizational strengths where you have like a framework for
someone I love these phases. I think it's so helpful to think about something as nebulous seeming as a transition, in terms of there are phases there is this, you know, once I'm done with this, I move into this and having that kind of path, I think is what so many photographers and creatives yearn for and don't feel like they have on their own. So I'm excited that this is something that you're pursuing. Mary, where can people find you?
Well, you can find me on my website,
//www.MaryOtanezphotography.com. And then you can also specifically I have a free download, about the Art of Transition. And kind of everything we talked about breaking down of the three phases and even some mindful approaches to your mindset, and how to approach the soul. But you can do that at https://www.maryotanezphotography.com/transitions. So it'll be very Easy for you to
look over that. And then I will kind of put you into an email list of mine that I will let you know, I am definitely not a spammer for sure. I don't have enough time to do emails, but I will let you know when the mentorships launch. That's the point of it. I'll let you know. And I think about spring 2022 is what I'm hoping for.
Yeah. So if this sounds like what you could use in your business, go grab I got to preview this PDF that Mary put together and it is beautiful. It goes deeper into some of the stuff we've talked about today. So you're definitely gonna want to grab that at
//www.maryotanezphotography.com/transitions. And, and yeah, Mary, thank you so much for joining us today. This is it's just always lovely to chat with you. But you've got you've dropped so much great insight here and I'm excited.
Oh my gosh, well, you know, I love you to death. And this is so much fun. I really and i and i oh and like I said before, I just owe you on the business side of things. I feel like I have a better handle and at peace with my financial situation because of the Simple Sales System. So there's that right in there.
And then you're paying it forward by sharing your gifts. I feel like if we could all do more of that the world would be a better place. Well, good. We'll have a great day and I will talk to you soon.
Talk to you soon. Thank you.
Well, that's it for this week's episode of this can't be that hard. I'll be back Same time, same place next week. In the meantime, you can find more information about this episode along with all the relevant links, notes and downloads at this can't be that hard comm slash learn. If you like the podcast, be sure to hit the subscribe button. Even better, share the love by leaving a review in iTunes. And as always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.