298 - Quit or Commit? Real Talk for Photographers

Right, you know you don't want to be there anymore, you just can't figure out the best path forward, and that is a. It's just a tough place to be, and it's something that I think we struggle with as solopreneurs, because we don't always have an available community that understands where we're coming from, that can sort of relate and give honest, constructive feedback and sort of help us through these times, and so what we do is we turn to social media, which can actually have the

opposite effect from well. It's not that it has the opposite effect, it's just not always the most constructive place to go right. So if you have an in-person community, congratulations good. If you don't, I think you should put it on your list of things to prioritize this year is meeting some other people and forming a community that you can rely on like that.

But in the meantime I wanted to have a bit of a conversation that I share with you here on the podcast about a topic that I think a lot of photographers are feeling trapped around, which is the new feeling of the photography industry, or the sort of the newest phase of photography in the world, and the appetite for photography, the willingness to pay professional rates for photography.

These are not new challenges for photographers, but I do feel like over the last couple of years something has shifted and I have been kind of going around in my own head about that. You're going to hear all about my feelings about that over the course of this episode, but as I have been sort of seeing and hearing more photographers struggle with this, I have wanted to weigh in and sort of share my thoughts about it.

So I had planned a conversation or a podcast episode for the beginning of the year to address that. And then I was talking to Dana. If you don't know Dana from the consistency club, she works with me and has worked with me for the last couple of years as the marketing director at.

This can't be that hard and she's such a wealth of knowledge and not just knowledge, but also energy and sort of positive, supportive energy which we can all use, and when I was talking to her about this, she brought up an analogy that I loved. Surprise, surprise, as soon as she brought it up and we got into it, I was like, oh man, nevermind, this isn't going to be a solo show. I'm interviewing you for this particular podcast and it really is less of an interview and more of a conversation.

So I want to invite you to kind of pull up a chair and sit at our little coffee shop table where we are discussing the state of the industry, the. You know what's needed to succeed these days, and I think you're really going to enjoy it. I know I really enjoyed it and and I hope it kind of kicks your year off on the right note. Welcome to this. Can't Be that Hard. My name is Annamie Tonkin and I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love.

Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it and I can show you how. Dana, welcome, it's so great to have you here.

Thanks, I actually really appreciate you being willing to take the time to have this conversation because I feel like I was going to do a solo show on this and I just you're such a good person to talk to about this, because it's like you know enough about the photography industry, because now you've been working with me for two and a half solid years. You've been like all up in the photography business, but you're also not in it in it, so I feel like you've got that perspective Plus.

You're just an awesome cheerleader in general. Like you're a very positive person and I feel like sometimes we all need that, even if I consider myself to be a pretty positive person, but like we all have our down days and so it's always good to have that friend who's like come on.

So you know, there's always some level of that, but I just felt like it was getting to be more and more. And I was talking to you about that and you were talking. You raised this idea of video games, which I am like completely blissfully unaware of, Um, and you were talking about these levels. So I'm not even going to make, I'm not going to show how unknowledgeable I am about this, I'm going to let you take over right there and just share this sort of analogy with everybody.

So if you aren't a video game person, you know the old school video games like think Mario, super Mario Brothers okay, is set up such that, like you are a character and as you go through the world world you pick up skills and tools and you learn how to do different new tricks or cast spells or whatever the game you know lends itself to.

And then, sort of at the end of several levels, you meet up with a mini boss or you know a boss at the end of the level and this is this big monster and they're really hard to beat. And usually what happens is the first time that you come up against them you get absolutely smashed.

You like die in like two seconds and then you're like, okay, wait, let me go back and get a different hammer or learn a different thing, and you go back and you learn those things and you come back and you probably still lose to them. Like you, you go up against this boss a couple of times and each time you get a little bit better, but you're like, oh wait, I need to go back and I need to learn something else before I'm ready to beat this boss.

And so that really became an analogy for me in business, which is like you, your business. A long time ago you did a podcast episode on this and I'll link we'll link it in the show notes, but it was like the different phases of starting a business, like when you're a startup, and then, like you know, when you're sort of like just you know you're in the you're not quite a startup, but you're a beginner.

Then you're like in your growth phase, then you're in your you know, I can't remember the name, it was the guy.

Right, but what I often have seen in a lot of businesses, specifically in self-employed businesses, because it's really just you doing it is when you are moving from one phase to the next phase, you have to beat this boss, you have to like, you come up against this sort of ceiling or like mini boss in your business and if you don't have all the right tools to get over that level and push into the next level, it can really feel how I perceive people to be feeling right now,

which is super defeating, super burnout. You're like again, you're just like crashing into this wall over and over again. So it to go back to the video game analogy, that is like the idea of like, if you keep trying that boss fight over and over again without going back and getting new tools and learning new things and up-leveling your skills, then yeah, you're going to.

That's the definition of insanity right Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result yeah, so you have to go back and be like, you have to take kind of a step back and be like okay, what do I need to beat this boss level?

And so I think I have looked at this vibe that is happening right now and I and I think that it is both just inherent in how you grow in any small business, right Like when you go from being a startup to being established, there is going to be a ceiling that you go through from one level to the next. There's going to be this boss that you have to be right.

Confluence is that the right word of like the photography industry specifically, like what has the photography industry has undergone a pretty massive change in the last 20 years as compared to, you know, a lot of other industries. So I think part of it is just the basics of like running any small business, and then the other part of it is people are coming. We're all sort of coming up against a little boss right now because of the photography industry in general.

Can it like that sounds terrible. And he was like no, no, it's pretty good, it can like that sounds terrible. And he was like, no, no, it's pretty good. It was not pretty good, but it was better than like digital cameras to that point had been. And he was really excited about the fact that he wasn't gonna have to pay a bunch of money to shoot film. But he didn't have a website and so I had absolutely no idea and you know, like also, things like the knot didn't exist. I mean, I was like research.

It's funny to look back and think that wasn't really all that long ago and yet it was a completely different process from when I got married a couple of years ago, completely different. And then, when I think about him and his photography business, he, when digital became like a real thing, he quit.

He got out of photography because he was one of these guys who had been in business as a film photographer and had, like shopped his portfolio around, like he had prints that he would send to various publications and they would hire him as a photographer.

And when the industry shifted and all of a sudden, not only did he need to like switch over to digital completely, but he also was going to have to build a website and do all this stuff to like run a different business in a newly flooded market, he was like and I'm out, which you know, that's fine. That was the right decision for him. That was the first thing in the early two thousands and then around 2010,. I guess that was around when Instagram kind of hit the I think so hit the scene.

So around that time, cause, in the beginning of my business, it was still the thing where you couldn't post anything other than photos that you took with your phone on Instagram. Right, you'd like put the Instagram filter on them. And then I remember when, all of a sudden, you were able to put your professional photos into your phone and add them into Instagram and how.

I was like woo, this is going to be a great way to market my business, and it was because, at that point, 99% of the content that was on Instagram was very amateurish and then, if you got to be one of the first to market, that was showing something that people couldn't see all the time on their phones that drove demand. I feel like, in retrospect, through the roof through the roof through the roof.

When you're in it you don't see it all that well, but I definitely, in retrospect, see that like I was very much a beneficiary of that confluence of events. That was like increased, you know, number of people who were getting really good at photography, yes, and then the increased exposure to that by everyone and on our side, an insane demand.

I like I can't even describe how terrible it is and I thought it was good enough to post on my Facebook timeline because that was the state of I probably had a flip phone at that point and it had like a camera, and that was the state of cameras on your phone. So, then, cameras on your phone started to get a little better, but they were not nowhere near as good as the photographs that you all were making with your professional cameras, and certainly not at that time. Yeah, certainly not.

So then we started being like wow, I want that. And so this idea of being Instagram worthy sort of came in. Like, I would say, 2012 to 2016, 18, somewhere in there. This idea of like, if you're going to post a picture of your family or your kid or your newborn or your pet or whatever, it better be beautiful and look professional.

I feel like if you ordered a camera online during that time, that would be like absolutely bonkers, like in the, the insane idea of ordering something that expensive online, right, whereas now it's just like, yeah, like mail to me, right, right, so the barrier to entry was so high.

So there, there definitely was this moment in time where the demand, everybody wanted professional photos of everything their kid taking their first poop, to like their wedding, right and that, um, we didn't have the ability to take those photos ourselves. And now I think that camera phones, while they are certainly, and never I don't think they ever can be as good as a I'm going to call it a real camera. I don't know it never will reach that level.

However, you can use your camera phone now to take up, you know, to take photos of your kid's third birthday party. We'll say right and like you will it. You won't have the same level, but you will be able to capture all the beautiful balloon arches you made and the cake that you did, and you will be able to capture those details in a way that you will then be able to turn around and post that on Instagram or put it in a photo album if you want it's.

Of course, it's not going to be the same as professional photos, but I think that, like, that part of the demand has certainly come down.

There's like another piece to the puzzle here, which is that when all of this other stuff was happening and photography was getting really high demand, um, we were also the the, the trend at that time, or the um popular style of portrait photography was very like telephoto lenses were everywhere.

You had that super, super, um, creamy, dreamy backdrop where your subject and the backdrop were very separated, which is an extremely difficult thing to do with a phone camera just optically, like you can fake it with portrait mode, but that is not.

Certainly portrait mode wasn't available then and they made it available now and probably very few people are using it, because now the style is a more like 35 millimeter look, and I mean that extends even to like pop-up flashes back in style and that is, like, hilariously and antithetical to what was going on then.

So, in addition to all these other sort of you know, the wind was at our back for so many things, and part of it was that the people were like what they saw that professionals were doing was totally different from what they could achieve on their own. Even if they were given a like a phone from today, you know was delivered into the past, it just wasn't available to them.

So now the tide has come out yeah, where I'm just going to continue to mix metaphors here where it's like the style is more in line with what phones can achieve, phones are just straight up, better. People aren't trying to make everything look all perfect all the time.

And then you know you have the whole fact of the matter that, like, there are a ton of photographers and technology has continued to make it easier to start a business in that, like, I had to take a WordPress class to design and like execute a website when I started. Now you can get a fantastic looking website.

The number of photographers has grown and grown. However, the demand for, for professional photography continues to outpace the number of photographers that there are coming in. So I think this is really more of a mindset thing about okay, so the barrier to entry is a little bit lower, which means at the lowest level of you know, photographers, the competition is fierce. There are a lot of brand new photographers.

So the challenge then, unlike when you started, isn't can I leap over all these technical barriers? To like can I build a website? Can I do that? Everybody can do that. So now the barrier becomes a mindset, one of like how do I become the cream of the crop? How do I rise above? Again? Let's go back to my boss analogy.

How do I beat this first level of the video game and go to level two or level three or level four or whatever you want it to be, and so I think that you know you guys can Google these stats for yourself. Like the numbers are not my forte, but, like when I was looking at the number of photographers, I think it was like the number of photographers, professional photographers, who, like, claimed that you know on their taxes or whatever in 2024, I think it was like 120,000 people.

Like, think about that compared to the number of people that live in the U S, that's like I don't, it's like minuscule. So you know, and, of course, maybe not everybody is claiming that or whatever, but again, that number is teeny, tiny compared to the number of people that are having kids, that are getting married, that want professional photos of their family, that want pictures of their dogs, that, like, you know, like what all the options that are available out there.

So I feel like this is the part where you need to look back and say to yourself okay, what mini boss do I have to get over in 2025? And it might be a little bit different for every person. So I would encourage if you're listening in right now I would encourage you to really think about what was the thing that felt the most frustrating. What was your? What was your boulder? Is it Sisyphus?

Now, take that number and if it was exactly the same but you spent half the hours of the year making that amount of money, would you feel differently about how successful you are? So it's those kind of little shifts Like if you, you know, if you got the same amount of inquiries but 75% of them booked instead of 33% of them, would you feel differently? So it's, I think, more about looking at your like your little boss in a critical way and being like what that doesn't make. That isn't a failure.

I'm not going to stop trying to beat this boss, but how? What tools do I need to go back and gather? What skills do I need to learn what? Or another one that I feel like I'm hearing from people a lot is like my clients are so fussy or like everybody's so picky or like so difficult to deal with and there's always going to be difficult clients in the world. But this is going to be a tough love from Dana moment. If you keep having the same complaint over and over again from a bunch of clients.

The common denominator in that situation has to be you a little bit. So you have to be willing to take a look, a critical look, at where your communication is failing. If the same people are having the same issue over and over again, they're like oh, I didn't realize this was going to be this way. Or if you are having the same problem with inquiries, where people are going to your website and then they're like shocked by your pricing.

Maybe your website isn't really like doesn't match up to what your pricing is. So you need to be willing to look at that critically.

I also as many of the people, or as many people as I've heard from this year, who have had, you know, their worst year. I've also heard from several photographers who are killing it Like they're doing great, and it seems to me like if you get to the point where you're like I'm still in this game, you know. If you're not, if you're like nope, I'm still in this game, you know.

If you're not, if you're like nope, I'm done fighting this fight, I'm done pushing this rock up the hill Like no shade whatsoever, that is. I mean, ultimately we'll all make that decision at some point. It's really a matter of like figuring out whether that's where you are. But if you are not, then you have to like take a break, you know, do whatever you need to do to sort of like regain your composure.

Certainly, we are here at the end of the busy season and, like we all tend to have at least a couple of days where we're like I can't, I can't do this anymore. Even you had that day. I know I do, I do every year. Um, no, no doubt at all. And then, but when you come back to it and you're like I'm in, you have to be all in, like there is no the self pity or the like. Well, it's just the industry or whatever.

That doesn't serve you at all and it really it pains me to see people wallowing in that, because I'm like every bit of energy that you are putting into this pity party and I'm going to jump on the tough train, but every bit of energy that you're putting into that is wasted energy. Like no one cares whether and I'm not saying I like I care, I care about you and your feelings and all that sort of stuff but like your clients do not care and when they see and feel that energy, it repels them.

So every minute that you spend doing that is actually sabotaging the potential for moving past it or getting past that level.

It becomes a little less personal and a lot more like a logic puzzle that you can figure out. And so to your point about like people aren't willing to pay those rates. First of all, that is just not true. That is like law of attraction working in reverse. So, like this idea of like, if you're going to buy a white Hyundai, then all of a sudden, all you see on the road are white Hyundais and you're like everyone has a white Hyundai. I can't buy that. Okay, so it's the same idea.

If you're like nobody's willing to buy my rate or pay my rates, that's all you're going to see out in the world is other photographers who are like no one is willing to pay my rates. But if you are like, nope, there are people out there who are willing to pay for good photography, then that is what you will start to attract back to yourself. And you know, not every you talk about this all the time. Not every profitable rate is the same for every photographer.

So this sort of goes back to my idea of like. You need to figure out what profitability means and looks like for you. Maybe this other photographer spends 15 hours per client and so their rates are higher accordingly, but if you spend three hours per client and are charging you know half of them, half of what they charge you're actually still more profitable than they are. So it's not just about who can charge the most, it's actually. This is where the game part comes in.

It's actually about how can you figure out how to streamline your workload and your systems and your whole like process so that you can charge a rate that people are willing to pay but that you are the most profitable you can be. That is how you gamify it. Ooh, I just got goosebumps. It's like that is how you gamify your business and win Like. And that's when you're going to start feeling really good because you're like great.

I am like doing what I love, I am providing an amazing service, I am charging a fee that is fair and that people are willing to pay, and I'm making great money. That is a win all the way around.

I want to, you know, like really take the time to spend on my craft, which I appreciate and I totally support, and this is part of the whole like run a profitable, sustainable business that you love. The problem is, when you put all that heart and time and energy into something and you don't succeed, it's way harder to be like well, that didn't work, let's try something else, yeah. And so I do think that there is a balance to be struck.

No matter where you fall on the spectrum of people who are like, business minded versus like a hundred percent, I'm here for the art. Wherever you are on that spectrum, it is important to set yourself up sustainably and to set yourself up profitably, because let's say that, like it's, things are not great in the industry this particular year and it's not. You're not, it's halfway through the year and you are not on track to hit your financial goal for the year.

But because you've set your business up in such a way where if you're not working you actually have time, you're not just constantly like turning that wheel, then you could go out and you know, get like, put your editing services on Upwork and go get some jobs doing other freelance work while you're waiting for things to kind of turn around, or while you're trying something new in your business, or while you're implementing a new process, all of those things you know.

The sustainability piece allows you to kind of grow and shrink and pivot the amount of effort that you're putting in without having to throw the whole thing out just because it's been a tough season.

And so then, if you need to shrink, like the time that you put into it, but your profit margins will be the same percent, no matter what. And so then, if you need to shrink, like, the time that you're putting into your business, god forbid. Let's say something you know terrible happens a health crisis, or like you need to just take some time away, you are still able to be profitable in 20% of the time that you were, you know, putting into it.

Or you know when I I which I am sure will happen when the tailwind comes again, and then you're able to like open your sales. You're at a hundred percent and you are not missing out. You're a hundred percent profitable. So, like you know that you are already set up for success, no matter what.

It's the only reason that I've been able to stay in business and continue to make money as a photographer. I feel like that, plus having this growth mindset where I was like, well, all this crappy stuff is going on and I can be upset about it and like whatever, and I can shut down. And that was, you know, again, not only a reasonable option, but one that I was strongly considering.

That because I was like I'm going to continue to just see, let's just see, let's try something different, and it might fail, but if it doesn't fail, I get to continue doing this thing that I love, yeah, and that's, you know, I guess, at the end of the episode, at the end of the day, that's really the message that I want to put out there for everyone listening is that, like it is hard, business is hard a lot of the time and it's particularly, I think, difficult because when you're your own boss

and you're working for a company of one, it's you're having these conversations in your head, yeah, and it tends to be that, like the, you know, the gremlins come out and they're based in fear, fear of failure, fear of, you know, am I wasting time? Am I does? Is everyone laughing at me? Whatever your particular flavor of fear is, and you can really talk yourself into a situation where you're like, nevermind, I'm just going to walk away. And again, there's nothing wrong with walking away.

But if you do it because of something like fear, then that really is sad to me. I, the reason that I'm here doing like the education side of my business, is that I want more photographers to run these sustainable businesses, these profitable businesses, because I think that this is such a beautiful addition to the world. I think that you know being able to see, show people their every day through, you know, your vision.

I think it enriches people's lives and it certainly, as an artist, has enriched my own life. So I I just would love to caution everyone out there to to take it slow, take, take the uh, try and, you know, do your frustrated dance and then, uh, unless you're walking away, get back on the horse and like and figure out, yeah, like, okay, so recap, figure out what's your, what's your little mini boss for 2025?

Like, I think there is a lot of noise out there about like you're only successful in photography if you make X amount of money, and that is just not true in photography or any business. There are plenty of reasons for you to start a any kind of business out there, but certainly a photography business, that are not financial, purely financial.

So, like, you know, if you are, you know, hitting your income goal and still able to, you know, stay home with your kids or do work another full-time job that you also really love, or, you know, if this, again, not everybody's end is the same end, right? So I think those are. That's what I would say to people right now is, like, as we are coming into this new year, gamify your business a little bit, take a critical look at it and then just remember like what success looks like for you.

Make sure that your ladder is leaning up against the right building.

If you like the podcast, be sure to hit the subscribe button. Even better, share the love by leaving a review in iTunes. And, as always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.