264 - Finding Your Marketing Superpower with Casey Fatchett

should pay attention to. But I have to tell you, the idea of sitting down and doing a corporate style SWOT analysis of my business has never been something that was particularly appealing to me, which is where today's guest comes in and makes this whole process a lot more entertaining. Casey Padgett is the host of the nerdy photographer podcast. He is a longtime wedding photographer based in the New York metropolitan area. And he's just a super entertaining guy all the

way around. He has been in business for a long time, and he has great insights that he shares openly on his podcast, but always seems to make them fun and kind of about those things that are classically nerdy. So today, he is joining me to chat about how you can do a marketing analysis of your business through the lens of the superhero comic book world. So I know you're going to enjoy this conversation. Marketing is one of those things I always talk about. It's like laundry. It's

an ongoing job. So it's great to be always thinking about it in different ways. And I feel like Casey's take on this is going to be as fun as it is valuable. Welcome to this can't be that hard. My name is Annemie Tonken. And I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more

sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it. And I can show you how. Casey fastjet Welcome to this can't be that hard. I am so excited for today's conversation. You and I have a lot of nerdy similarities. And I am. I'm ready to geek out with you. How have you been?

right now. It's like it's gonna be like this all week. And I'm like, perfect trying to fight wave from the pollen. And

technical photography. Because the days before digital, you didn't have a lot of the things that we kind of like uses crutches now. Sure. And then I did my first wedding. And I really loved that. And I became my focus more on weddings. So I've been doing weddings for 23 years, 24 years, and you had almost 800 weddings and now Yeah, and then This started a whole thing for photographers about six years or six years ago this month, I started the nerdy photographer, happy anniversary.

Thank you. And yeah. And then that parlayed into a podcast as well. And I just want to make photographers laugh and help them learn about business. Well,

solitary. Yeah, it is. And I'm excited to have you on the show. But I'm really excited because this thing that that you and I have in common is that we love to paint a more creative picture I'm gonna say of how to think about your business. So with that vague introduction, I'm gonna have you dive in on this marketing topic that we're talking about today.

part of how I saw the world. And what I like to teach people to market themselves as photographers or as I mean, whatever you're doing, he doesn't have to just be photography, but I think it works visually for photographers, is to help you find your superpower. And when people say that, and first of all, before I get into this little caveat, write this stuff down, get out a piece of paper.

And when you're thinking about these things that I'm going to talk about, write it down, you're gonna want to write it down, you're gonna want to change it over time, possibly. So it's good to have a record of this, just don't, don't leave it in your head. Don't leave things like in the ether, just where you're thinking about it, you know, because if you don't put it down on paper, or type it out, or whatever, it just sort of like ruminates up there and you never really, it doesn't

crystallize for you. And you don't, it doesn't become like a solid thing. And you know that that's a problem, because this is something you're gonna want to work and rework over time and how it helps you. So we're gonna start out with what's your superpower? What's the thing that you do better than anybody else? And it doesn't necessarily have to be actually better than

anybody else. But think about your market, you're gonna have to think about where you are as a photographer, the people you're trying to reach, you have to have some knowledge of what's going on in your area. And what is the thing that you do better? Or do really well? Are you great at turning around turnaround time is like getting people back. Amazing photos really

fast. Your thing? Is your thing, being able to pose people really, really well and like set up these anti Liebowitz, looking, you know, vote cover shots, is that what you do better than anyone or like you're at the top of your game, the thing that when I say that there's a lot of like newbie photographers, people who are just starting out in their business or are trying to still figure that out? What I like to tell them is what do you want to

be known for? Right? What is the thing that you want people to come to you for when I really sat down and part of what benefitted me after I had been a photographer for a while was feedback from my clients. And I always tell people, ask for feedback. Ask for feedback from the people who don't hire you ask for feedback from the people who did hire you might think for people who didn't hire you as always send a quick email or whatever and say like, Hey, thanks for letting me know you

didn't hire me. You went another direction. Totally understand. Can you tell me what was the deciding factor and who you hired? Because that can teach you a lot about what's going on in those interactions. But when you're talking to your clients, it was something that I was unaware of that I was just subconsciously doing really well was making people feel comfortable. That mean, I know, to an extent about like, patting myself on the back or like say that I'm gonna make people

laugh. You know, those sorts of things. But the feedback that I kept getting from people was that they felt super relaxed on camera with me, because I personally don't like being on camera. You Even though I was inaccurate, like there's a character that you're portraying, and that's, that makes things easier, I guess. But I, you know, I think it's part of whatever my own getting my head, both thinking like, what is that photographer doing? What settings are they using?

What lens Oh, that lens, really they're gonna shoot at that angle that lens. So I get really nervous about it. And then, you know, I use that need to feel comfortable with my clients. And I wasn't even thinking about it. But now I focus on it. Because this is the thing that over more than 20 years, everybody who has something positive to say about my business says that without prompting from me, says, This is what Casey does. That made me feel really good about our interaction. There are other

things too. And, you know, one thing for me is turnaround time not posing people is one of the ideas that that people really like, there, you kind of create your set of skills, your superpowers that are going to distinguish you from the crowd, because that's what you know, photography is these days. I mean, the more the merrier, bring people in come into the industry, it's not easy. It's a crowded field. Yeah.

who you are in the world. So when we are good at things naturally like that, those become things that seems second nature to us, right? It's Oh, yeah, everybody can write a great term paper or whatever, like, whatever your strengths are, you oftentimes will discount them as strengths, because we just naturally assume that that's what everybody does.

So that asking for feedback, and hearing those patterns start to emerge sometimes can bring our attention to something that we don't necessarily need to work on or anything else, what we need to do is just start calling it out and making it more explicit in our marketing and everything else.

That's not why people are hiring you as a photographer, right? You have to think about more about your interactions with people and what you provide for clients. And yeah, those things tend to, especially because we sort of just think of it as like you said, second nature, we don't focus on it, we think something to kind of come out of Yeah, those were the things like looking at patterns and reviews,

or feedback from clients. Looked for me it was the things like yes, I'm doing this well, already, without thinking about it. Now I need to hone it.

Right. It's a difference between, like, just naturally being good at having the skills to do something and like the natural raw ability, and now you focus on it, you get better at it, you make more of a push in that direction, when it comes to your social media, your marketing, how you talk to potential clients, like when I get into a meeting with a potential client and somebody says what makes you different now I know what I'm going to

talk about, right? What makes you different as a photographer, and I will tell them like these are in depends on what type of client we're talking about weddings, different from portraits different from corporate you know there I will talk about those things that I know I am very good at. These are the things that set me apart. Which leads me to the next part of it. Every superhero has a weakness in your

kryptonite. Yes kryptonite. Or like if you're a Green Lantern was one of my favorites of the color yellow weird

people. Don't focus on posing like don't those are the things you avoid talking about in your marketing or your social media stuff like one of the lessons that I learned from another photographer friend of mine Who else does a lot of marketing stuff? Who told me like, if you don't want to take these types of pictures, stop putting them

in your portfolio. And like, don't, you know, start slowly trimming down the number of photos that you show, and blog posts, or social media, so that people aren't coming to you for that sort of thing. And I was just like, I Yeah, the things that I don't enjoy about my job, and I'm not necessarily like, great at it, they would say, like, I'm okay. And that's the thing is like, I don't talk

about it. But I doesn't mean I don't like try to bring myself up to a level of proficiency with it doesn't mean I just don't talk about it. Right, posing, I can do it. I know that, like, I know how to pose people. But it's not something that I do. Some people need it, though. So sometimes I gotta jump in there with, Hey, this is how you guys should stand a little bit more, they need a little bit more direction, so that I can do that. When it

comes time to do it. Right. But I'm not talking about it all the time. Right? It makes sense. Yeah.

don't do it at all. I'm extremely clear with people about that. So I've just kind of written that out of the script entirely. Yep. However, there are elements to my job that are necessary for me to perform my job that are not my super strengths, and in some cases are my weaknesses, but they are necessary. And so like, I'm just going to pull out an easy one that everybody can probably nod their heads along with, which is

accounting. So that's not a front facing thing, I wouldn't really talk to my clients or potential clients about it, but it's important, but I do have to do that. So in that case, it's like, this is the first thing I'm gonna outsource. Right,

knocking at my door. But yeah, find those things that you are not necessarily the strongest at and either outsource them, or bring yourself up to a level where you are competent with it. That's the things like you know, you're just not going to, I don't know, I talked about like, turnaround fast turnaround is the things like I think some people when they're starting out, fast turnaround for the MC, I gotta get the stuff back to people as quickly as possible.

And quality suffers. You need to find where your level is for delivering the quality that is imperative to you as an artist, and the you know, like speed, find out where that equilibrium is. And then you start telling, that's when you start, like telling people what the timeframe for delivery is. And knowing your schedule, like what your workload is going to be with how many people coming in.

And if you're outsourcing, editing, fine, you know what that turnaround time is, but like, you can't Don't over promise and under deliver? Yeah, you need to find those things that you're not necessarily going to highlight when you're talking to a potential client or using in your marketing. Again, these are a week, this is not necessarily something you're

terrible at, right? It's just something that you don't excel at that you don't want to, like, point out in your marketing or highlight with your social media as something that then people are gonna go like or kind of come to you and be like, Oh, wait, hey, you know, oh, you you do you if you took like one great posed photo, you know, don't make a big highlight of that on your website, because that's just something that you

don't normally do. Right? That that can that's a pitfall because then all of a sudden people like everybody will be like, I want that photo. I want something like that. And

this wedding? And I was like, What do you mean, they like, oh, this person posted photos from the same wedding and had to go back to them and be like, hey, you know, in our agreement, they either have that you don't get to post them because of whatever reasons why and they don't want multiple people posting them, they're okay with just me doing it. Or it says, You have to state that you shot with me that you were working for me, just to clear up any like, I'm not

saying you can't use it. But you have to include, like, my tag or on social media or whatever. Just to clarify that with people. But yeah, I also like I really felt like you're saying, because sometimes I'll do newborns sometimes for my clients, like when they have sure child, whatever. But I also make it very clear, I do not do those. Like, I'm not swaddling and putting them in a basket it like with props and things.

That's just not how I am I get interactions between people like a gay guy holding the baby, those sorts of things. Because, again, that is not my strong suit, when it comes to any sort of photography. Like it's not like doing the super staged, right? Like this is there needs to be more of a organic feel to it for me. Yep. That's it, I can't do it. But it's not my strong suit.

comfortable. You know, I make chit chat with your mother in law at the thing and she's gonna love me and all this sort of thing. That's great. That's going to be a huge relief to some people. Versus the photographer who's like, I'm a fly on the wall, you will never, you know, you'll not even know that I'm there. That's going to attract a different person. But they're both they both have their value, but you can't really be both.

be a painter. That's what he was like formally trained and are like he just knows how to see how things are going like it he does these elaborate reels on Instagram, about his like light setup, you can see like what he does, and then the you get to see the final picture and it's like, ah, it looks like a painting and like that is what he does. But he is like that is what separates him that is his

superpower. And he's like very clear people like it takes me 15 to 20 minutes to set up one of these pictures and so like this is what we're only gonna get one maybe two of whole wedding day but these people are like that, like that connects right level with what his the people he is trying to reach. But his like you don't see anything else on his Instagram feed. It's because that he knows that is his superpower. Right? That's what he's leaned into. Even though he is good that candid photos as

well. He knows that's the thing that really catapult him to the top of all the people that he wants to reach. That being said like I think that leads us to the next part of this is opportunities like he like superheroes are always looking for the what they can do to like help. If there's somehow they they know what they're there chances to help people look for opportunities to use your superpowers in your market. Is there like to get people to think of you as that

photographer? The person who does that thing in this area? Are there charities you can partner with? Is there a nonprofit? Is there something you can do some sort of event that you can host like or if there's something going on in like if you like where I live in New Jersey, there are all these little like pop up community thinks, is there something you can get involved in? To more spread your name? As the person who does that photo? You like who like to show off your

superpower? Where are the opportunities in the area to do that, I think that that is something that you need to be on the lookout for, you need to look for these chances to spread the word because it's like, you know, social media is not the end all be all of this, like, you got to think about more local sort of stuff, like I said, throwing things out into the, you know, into a huge net, you need to get a like, fish a smaller area. Yeah, because that's how you're gonna make

stronger connections. Yeah.

marketing. The more people who know who you are, and kind of what your superpower is, especially if that has to do with, you know, oh, Annemie Tonken is always happy to come help out when we're doing charity fundraisers in for the cancer center, or whatever the case may be. Getting your name on the lips of lots of different people and knowing having them know that you're kind of the person to go to for that

particular thing. It really as I it's funny, because everybody is gravitates toward social media marketing, because it's free and easy ish. And I use easy very loosely there because I think it's really hard for a lot of us. But it is showing up in person, just I get I feel like you get so much more mileage out of it.

it's good. But yeah, like there's, for example, if somebody in my local Facebook group says they're looking for an event or wedding photographer, a lot of people pop up and mentioned my name, because I have built this relationships with people. So that, you know, they know they they will immediately mentioned me, I have a friend who's a dog trainer in in our neighborhood. And anytime anybody asks Dr. Like there are 15 people who pop up and mentioned his name, because they just know he has

done such a good job. letting everybody know that. You know what he does? He doesn't like not, like it's not, I don't know, I wouldn't say obnoxiously letting people know, but like, you know, when you meet him, you know, he's a dog trainer. And I think that's one of the missed opportunity that a lot of people in the photography community don't want to say, I'm a photographer, right? When you talk to people, like, oh, by the way, this is what I do. And like reminding people I exist out

here. Not saying like, not just sort of letting it go, you know? Don't mumble it. Like, I think part of that may be especially when you're starting out and you haven't been added as long. It's a self conscious thing. Because people will be like, Oh, what do you do? But I've seen your work anywhere. It's the same as when I was inaccurate. Oh, have you been anything I might have seen? Right? Yeah. It's that.

Overcoming that, and especially when you're starting out to, like, let people know, this is what I do. Yeah,

as a photographer. That's a

there is to learn. There's always something new Uh, but that also brings me to the final part of this, which is threats. Superheroes are always on the lookout for the, what can threaten their, whatever they're protecting, whether it's their city, or people or whatever, you have to think about what can threaten your business recently 2020 and COVID. And there's only so much you can be, is it take a lot of foresight to be able to

see that one coming. But generally, there are things like being prepared for change in the economy, how people spend their money, I've done some posts and thinks about like recession proofing your business, what you can do to like, okay, where if I really need to make a cut back on my expenses, what are the things I can cut back first, to help myself out, but the one that really sticks with me as someone who has been doing this for more than 20 years in, because I've seen it happen

several times, is changes in the way people buy, and how they research and find a photographer. When I started out, there were very few websites, people didn't have, like personal websites. At the beginning, when I was doing this, like, it was really word of mouth. It was putting up flyers, it was putting in, you know, postcards, or whatever, in local businesses or whatever, to try to get people to know you're around, and going and meeting them in person and showing them

a printed book. Yeah, like a portfolio of prints. That changed rapidly at the turn of the millennium into people having websites. But still, people wanted to come and see because website, quality was not great.

thing. And also generationally, as we got to Gen Z, you know, like becoming more prominent in being clients, and sort of younger millennials, millennials had a different way of purchasing than I'm Gen X. So I was very familiar with how annexures obviously, like, make purchases and what was important to them and how they did this exchange, like they wanted to trust you that trust Gen X's, we want to be able to know that we you're not going to rip us off, millennials have very strong BS

meter. We just be like, Oh, that's not whatever you're just that's just made up. So they wanted to do a lot of their own research. And that has increased as we've gotten to Gen Z. It is almost all research online. Yep. And maybe a zoom call there, the percentage of people who want to meet in person beforehand, has diminished and diminished, diminished, right? And you have to be prepared for those sorts of things, right? I'm not, I'm bringing that up as an evolution

in how people buy. So that people listening to this can know you have to be prepared and aware and see those trends changing. For me. I used to have a meeting space in Manhattan that I was paying a significant sum of money for. And I noticed that no one had come in for a meeting for six months. They all wanted to do it online. Right? On my lease came up. I was like, No, thank you. Yeah, nobody wants to do this anymore. Nobody wants to come in. And that was four months before the pandemic.

Very, very lucky. Because if I had signed on for that, I would have just been like, throwing money when I'm not making any money just like in the toilet. Here's my here's what money I have. It's it's going yeah, for a space that no one is coming into for, you know, eight months to a year anyway because of the pandemic. And I was saved because I saw the changes that were going on the trend. It wasn't that I knew that the

pandemic was coming. It was that I saw that people didn't want to come in for, you know, meetings. But yeah, like,

anymore. And I think we're both we've been in the industry long enough to have known a lot of photographers who were very successful pre digital. And when digital came around, and they, you know, were like, This is a sub, I mean, that's, again, a whole different conversation. But there were people who evolved, and grew. And even if they stuck with film, like they changed the way that they talked about their process. And then there were the people who kind

of got left behind. And, and that, you know, it's the tough reality of business is that you do have to kind of keep an eye on where you are. And if you're not moving with the trend, figure out how you can leverage that to your advantage.

to clients. Adapt, new technology adapts new technology, you know, like, stop complaining about, like, how the world is changing, and figure out how you can fit into it. Maybe you talk about what you do differently. Yeah. Now, to focus on like, Hey, I do it differently than everybody else. Which, you know, it's it's hysterical, because like, there's always the conversation when digital first became a

thing. Never, you know, it's just letting in all these amateurs into business and whatever it is, like, well, then tell people you're not an amateur radio show the show them why you're not an amateur, show them why you're better than people who are like, if you're just competing based on like, price, or whatever, because you're afraid of all these, like people who charge you know, 10% of what you do, then you're not marketing yourself. Right? Like, that's, that's, that's the

problem. It's not that there are other people you're not giving your potential clients the information that shows what sets you apart. Yeah. And the other thing I find is hysterical, is because I've always kept my phone cameras. And I only shoot like, personal projects on them now, like, in the amount of like, things in my Instagram and Tiktok. Whenever if people were like, ooh, like, you know how to get that film look, an additional and I'm like, I'm mine has always been like, I got

an idea. Just go out and get one of these. Put some film in it. Otherwise, I mean, you're just creating, you're just doing like, I don't know, you're just slapping the filter on it. Yeah. And that's fine. But like, you know, like, it's not a film. Look. I think it's the style Jaya. Style, just for something that wasn't experienced. Right? Again, look at you look, when you talk about like, that is a for older generation, like when you see those shifts, threats to

you? What could what could be a threat of like, changing dynamics, generationally, I mean, I don't know what I'm gonna do when alphas start getting married. Trying to navigate that, as I have younger relatives and be like, okay, like, like, let's talk about what it is you guys. How do you approach this? How would you

approach this? Yeah, if you're hiring somebody, and you're spending this amount of money or whatever, like, pick the brains of those people a little bit like, figure things out, but like I said, you can take a threat like that. Things changing and turn it into an opportunity. One of the things I talked about now as a strength is my experience. Yeah. I've seen a lot Sure. When it comes to weddings, like, you know, I've sewn people back into a

dress. I've, you know, a stain stick, you know, like, but it's, there's no like, Oh, God, what are we gonna do? Right? It's like, Hey, don't worry that's covered. Been here, done that. Don't worry about it. That's a huge selling point. Right? And that's taking something that could be, you know, threatening to my right job, and turning it pivoting and saying like, here's one of my strengths. My strength is, I have gone through this, you know, and put up the warning

label. I am not saying anything bad about new photographers. There's a certain you know, expertise that is learned over For many years of experience that makes it easier for me to do certain jobs, yeah. Be just because I've been there, I've done it. Part of what people are paying me more money for is my ability to do it quickly, and not having to take the time to

figure out how to do it. Right, you know, like the, I'm actually spending that time doing the job for them, as opposed to researching, figuring out what to do. So that's an opportunity for me. Yeah, you know, to set myself apart.

am not out there. As much as I should be, you know, pushing the creativity bounds and everything else that I was doing when I was brand new, like I was willing to swim the ocean for a client at that point. And now I'm like, well,

to take those chances? Because you're like, I think some of it is, and maybe all of us could use a healthy dose of it, as we're older and are more like into our careers. of, hey, let's figure something out. Like let's let's like the curiosity, right of things, and I try to keep myself curious. It's part of the reason I still do like personal projects on film, is because I can't see the result. Right, is that there's a thing in my head where I'm just going, Okay, well, I'm just gonna see the

picture. And then I can just adjust my settings, whatever, no, I have to get the settings, right. Because I'm not going to know for a week, whether or not this if I take the film out right now and go get it developed, right? Whether it came out or not, right? And whether I did it wrong. So there's that turning weakness into strength or opportunity is super important. And when you put all these together, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats, you have what's called a SWOT profile.

This is a very something that any marketing professional is very familiar with having this information, should you at some point, want to go to somebody who's a marketer, to help your business, having this all written down and just stick in. Even if you don't go to anybody

else. Being able to look at it and adjust over time, is something that I always also give advice on is writing down your goals and checking in on them having goals that you can check on in every month, every quarter, every year, whatever it is, see how you're doing to meet

those goals? This is the sort of thing that you should be checking in on to and going, okay, is Am I still there was there was a time when one of my strengths was I offered unlimited coverage on wedding days, I had a package, there was just no time limits. And nobody else was doing that. Because I mean, I charged for it. And they knew that like they were paying a premium for this type of coverage, because there was no

time on it. Right. And as it averaged out, most of the time, I was only doing 10 hours, which is 812 is kind of like my normal anyway. But I was mostly doing 10 hours, and occasionally had absurdly long, like 15 hour day. But that was not the thing, but then more and more people started offering that package. Yeah, so then it became less, you know, became less of a strength because there were so many other people who were doing

the same thing, right. So find a way to pivot and make it a new like find some other way to approach packaging for people that made it made me stand out in a different way. But that did make it good for about five years.

of photographer. They're like, Oh, I like these pictures. But there are so many other things that are important to them or may not be important to them. And by calling out and naming certain things like I'm really easy to work with, I have, you know, quick turnaround, I

include no time limits. If you don't say that, even if it's true, you know, even if you are good with people, and even if you do have no time limits on your package, if that language isn't sort of put right in front of them, they may be aware of it, but they won't be like it won't be a talking point for them, when they're either talking to their partner, or themselves about like weighing the pros and cons. So I'm all for really speaking those things out loud, everywhere that you

can. But I guess the first step is identifying them.

down. But I realized that I wanted to continue doing this for a long stretch of time, I needed to have that overview of things I needed to have in a the 10,000 foot view of where am I going and where have I been. And so that you can adjust with the times that you adapt, you adapt your strengths over time like you. It's important though, if you're starting out now, and you're just getting started in this or you're early on in your career, too. This will save you so much time in the future.

Yeah, this will make your life 100 times easier. Learn from my mistakes, learn from my mistakes, work smarter, not harder, doing this sort of stuff now, and reevaluating it like every year, just to have a sense of where you're at will help a lot. In the long term. If you want to do this long term, if you don't want to do a long term a whatever. by the seat of your pants, that's entirely up to you wait, you know, like, you're just doing this for a year or five years? It may be done it? Yeah.

yourself. And it's going to feel kind of like you're pausing taking your foot off the gas, you know, oh, I should be editing or I should be out there, you know, meeting people or whatever. But having this sort of, you know, date corporate retreat with your corporation of one really does make all the difference. And if you will, you know, if you put it on your calendar and commit to it, it will pay dividends over time. I

Maybe we should reconsider our commitment to that. Yeah. Those types of things that will save you time and money in the long run. Hey, it shouldn't be that hard, right? This can't be that hard. It'd be that hard. Is it? Yeah, we're trying to make your life easier here. So good.

humor. They're like little, like, learning things now and then reviews of stuff that I like, sometimes I do DIY projects, because that's one of the nerdy things that I really get into the building stuff. And like, do I really need to spend $500 on that piece of equipment? Or can I make it for 50 bucks, and I usually can make it for like, $50 reasonably, I'm not going to use it a bunch of times, but like I needed it for a project. Yes. Going on investing money. So that's something you're into.

Definitely, like tune in for that. Yeah, but yeah, nerdy photographer podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. Love me. Thank you for having me on. I really enjoyed this. Yeah,

review on iTunes. And as always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.