260 - Intersecting Skills with Amanda Dudzik

with Amanda Danzig. Today, I all of a sudden thought of that little lonely bullet point that has been sitting there being like waiting patiently to be made into a podcast episode. And then Amanda came on and essentially illustrated exactly what I was talking about, and said it better than I ever could

have. So Amanda is a portrait photographer based outside of Charlotte, North Carolina, she joined me today to have a conversation about the way that the intersection of her skill and talent as a hair and makeup artist, and her work as a photographer, she was sort of running these two parallel businesses for years. And, you know, the hair makeup business was going well. And if you end up seeing video of her, you'll you'll see that she knows her

stuff. But the photography business was kind of limping along, it was a you know, making her a few $1,000 a year, it was essentially a glorified hobby. And she wasn't loving what she was doing. She wasn't getting the right clients like all of those different things. And at some point, she stopped trying to keep her businesses and her talents separate and put into like perfect silos. And instead she said, You know what, I'm going to both of these things, I'm going to blend them

together. And ever since then, things have exploded for her. And so I want you to listen to this episode today, you're probably not a hair and makeup artist, maybe you could be maybe you are aspire to add that to your repertoire, which is great, Amanda's got some good info for

that as well. But regardless, I promise you that you have other talents outside of photography, that may not be as clearly and obviously linked as Amanda's two talents are, but you've got talents that you can combine in a way that will make everything about your business, work, feel, make money, etc, all of those things will be better. And so. So I want you to sort of keep your mind wide open about all of that, as you're listening today. I know you're going to enjoy

this one. Welcome to this can't be that hard. My name is Annemie Tonken. And I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it. And I can show you have. Amanda, welcome to this can't be

that hard. It is lovely to finally get to sort of meet you over video call. We've been going back and forth. And I'm really excited for today's conversation. How are you today?

And I think my husband thought that maybe it would save him money from me paying for photoshoots for the babies all the time. And it was the exact opposite as well. Ha ha ha ha Yeah. Right. And so I actually used to work for a salon. And six years ago, I decided to leave the salon and have my own business and you know, take the leap of faith and do my own thing. So I had my own salon and then I really use that time to focus on my photography business

as well. Nice. So for the last six years, I have been running two separate businesses at the same time. And I used to try to keep them separate and I used to try to do Be the photographer and then be the, you know hairstylist and makeup artist.

And I had the epiphany moment one day that I should be combining the two, after a few of my photographer, friends were like, you're really stupid not to do hair and makeup for your clients as well, you instead of forcing them to figure it out, you should be offering that service as well. So I decided to give it a shot. And it worked out beautifully. And the client was very happy. And so the rest is history. And I have a studio,

beautiful studio in my home. And I do all three services for my studio clients, you know, they get a hairstyle, full makeup application, and then we shoot in the studio. Amazing. If three and a half, four years, I would say yeah,

right. So I'm going to, I'm just going to try and copy and paste what is happening and what seems to be working for them into my own business. And I think that it's not the worst way to start out, because there's probably some kernel of truth in there. But it is impossible to see all the ins and outs of business, obviously, unless you're like, that person is your hired mentor, you're you're really making a guess, and a lot of the

stuff. And when it comes right down to it being a carbon copy of someone else, or trying to run a carbon copy of someone else's business, it just sort of dilutes the potency of whatever it is that they're doing that's working. And I really do think that the magic, like the magic formula for for kind of standing out in the best way is to find the intersections of your talents and your passions. You know, if you're, I mean, yours is such a great and sort of like, oh, man, I can't do hair

and makeup to save my life. But to, to have that complementary set of skills and to you know, blend it together. I think, to your point, your photographer, friends were like, dA is really obvious. But sometimes the most obvious things when they're right in front of us are hard to see. But I do believe that like anyone has that I think that my in my photography business, my intersection of talents really is that I am really good at getting my job done really

quickly. And also like making really good light banter with parents at the same time. Like I'm good at managing their kids, I'm good at keeping them happy. And we're in and out pretty fast. And for my target clients that's ideal. It's like it's easy, it's quick, its painless, whatever. That's not everybody's business model. But like I have leaned into that intersection.

So I want to go back to what you were doing before you've sort of you know, pre three or four years ago when you weren't offering hair and makeup to your photography clients. Tell me more about your photography business then and what was working and what wasn't working?

Because you need to try everything to understand what you truly you know, what lights you up what makes you happy and what you can't get wait to get home to edit. And for me that was never happening with families and kitten, little kids and the babies and whatnot. My kids were already a little older

at that point. And any child that was younger than them stressed me out Yeah, used to deal with the babies anymore sometimes, but what did like me up was the senior pictures when I would because I was working with one person. And I was able to really focus on them and the posing and everything on that one person and that filled me up. And I agreed to do headshots for someone. And I enjoyed that

as well. And I thought well, these are pictures that are really going to help this person make a living like that excited me too because they need that like that's a necessary thing. But I you know, I was slowly realized that I was not meant to be a family photographer. I already knew I wasn't going to be a wedding photographer because that was weekends away from my children. And people are not their best on that day. Typically. I knew I already knew I didn't want to do that. But

like I said, I tried newborns. I tried everything. Every every genre, the genre that I can think of at the moment other than birds and landscapes. I gave it a shot and I wasn't making enough money doing it doing In that way, I was meeting people at a field meeting people at a park, you know, the typical things and it was just very exhausting and unfulfilling. And that was when I kind of started thinking, okay, and you have to work every weekend, usually

families. So that was kind of when it started to sink in that maybe this is not the right path to take. And maybe I should start listening to my friends and potentially adding women's portraiture to the repertoire. And that quickly became the repertoire, right?

they're facing the mirror. Hair is less intimate than makeup. base or in someone's face. I always start with here no matter what. And that gets me that's a nice little warm up for them, I get them talking about you know, obviously about the shoot that we're doing what they need to get out of it. You know, we've already looked at their clothes when they come in, that's the first thing we do. We're just chit chatting, I start asking about their families, just like I would a salon client in my

chair. And then by the time I finished their hair, we move in, we're moving on to makeup and I'm in their face. And it's amazing the the conversations, how they change from the hair part to the makeup part, it goes deeper every time. Because that's an intimate thing to be touching someone's face. Like there's very few people that can do that can are allowed to touch your face, right? dentists, doctors, you know estheticians so it is a very intimate time. And we really get to that good

connection level there. And I think that is so valuable, especially if I shoot boudoir that is crucial. Like I wouldn't, I wouldn't do a boudoir shoot without doing the hair and makeup first. But we get past kind of the, the surfacey stuff and we get to the heart of it. And I do feel, you know, once they leave, if it if we if we connect there certainly clients that you don't connect with, that's going to be a risk in any in any person to person

business. But usually, we ended up friends like we ended up buddies and, you know, it's a relationship that moves forward from that usually involves repeat business in some way. I just I don't know how I would do it otherwise. Now. I do families in the fall, but I only take very few. And it's usually repeat clients that I've worked with before. Who I do already know very well. And I don't offer hair and makeup to them just for time. It's always gonna

be on a Saturday, weekends. It's an extra hour and a half, two hour to hour and a half. So I don't always offer that Sure. To family sessions, when usually they just want quick and dirty they need a day. Are they ready to have their kids ready anyway. So yeah, they don't really want to spend an hour with me and then have to go bring all their family and then try to get them to have you know, a park or pond

or whatever. But that's the only shoot I'm willing to do without doing the hair and makeup. Obviously men that's different. I do shoot men for headshots, but I just think it's so valuable that time together. Even if I was a photographer that didn't do hair and makeup, I think I would still spend that hour with the artist and the client talking about life while they did it. Yeah, you

happening. But if there aren't, I'll take the opportunity to like great, you're sitting there nursing your baby, I'm gonna sit here and like, let's just chat a little bit and it is it There is something magical about those pauses where because when the camera is pointed at someone, obviously there is a certain level for most of us of stress like how do I look? What do I do with my hands the whole thing and so as soon as you set the camera down there is like this almost visible, relaxed. Yep,

exactly. We both just dropped our shoulders and you kind of can break that. break that wall a little bit. Which I think is you know, it's easier and harder for different photographers and of course it depends on the client too. But creating that space certainly puts you in the best potential position to do that.

to do. You don't have to know what to wear, you know, bring a bunch of stuff, I'll put it together for you, you're going to be taken care of especially busy working moms, they, they're like, Oh, thank God, like, thank God, because I don't want to do it. I don't have time to do it. I don't, you know, this isn't my wheelhouse, I'll let you handle it. And that, to me is the ultimate compliment when they will allow me to, because trust me, and that I don't think they would have that same level of

trust. If we didn't have the, you know, the connection that we get even before the session, I make sure everyone talks to me on the phone. And I don't like to talk on the phone. Yeah, I was going to tell you something that I've been doing for quite a while now that I got from you, is, after every phone call, I send a video did it yesterday,

of the studio. And I love that I love I love connecting with people in general, just because I think just from being a hairstylist and touching people all day, and being up close and personal with people all day. I think that I would be very, almost sad and lonely. Without that, that personal connection like that. Yeah, Virtual Job would probably push myself.

annoyed by it. Like that's anything more than that, I think is an imposition on their time, because I've already given me a ton of their time on the phone. Not much time. But more than most people would give it a day. But the little video it's I mean, it is very rough. Like the first one I made, I sent to a couple of my photographer friends via text and I was like, I'm almost embarrassed to send this video because it is a

rough, rough cut. And they were just like, No, I can't believe you, you know, they were proud of me for even doing it because they don't do anything like that. And I sent it she message back. Oh my gosh, that looks good. It looks great. Everything looks great. I'll we you know, I'm gonna hop on and book now. So it's just as an extra touch. Every

something worth trying. And I really do think, you know, I was just talking the other day to somebody about the in person sales process and the and the couple of things that I sometimes miss about it. And and one of those is, well, it kind of comes down to this whole you have to show it to sell it. I have worked really hard with the simple sales system to build in ways to show what it is that we are selling so that you can paint that picture for somebody.

But in the interest of trying to streamline my workflow make myself run a business that I can manage, you know, I've given up some of my ability to do that. But these little videos I truly believe are like the modern way to communicate and we are all we consume so much video content

these days. So getting on the phone, hearing somebody's voice having a two way call, and then making them a follow up video where you're like, here's the space like they can see it you've shown it to them you know, I just I No wonder you're booking so well that's amazing. Thanks.

shoots. Headshots for men. No, there ain't going it doesn't help But most most women, when I give the options, I always give the option to everyone for headshots, Glamour, I do some tween sessions that are fantastic. But it's building sessions are amazing. I prefer that they do it in person, if they don't do it in person than I do a zoom reveal. But that is the the reveal to me is the

biggest gift. Like it is a payment in a way just to see their face to see themselves and, you know, see, oh, well, I am beautiful. That's me. Like, that's really me. I was there. I remember it like that, to me is amazing. And I know with certain business models, you just don't have the time for it. And grateful right now that I do have the time to do it still. And I hope, I hope that I can always include that because it is really impactful to me into them. So yeah.

someone love your photos. But I think that when I go back to somebody's house a year later, and like, they're my photos on the wall, and they're like, Oh my God, we love that's enough for me, like I don't need the the in person reveal part. But I mean, again, like, run a profitable, sustainable business that you love, not me, like you have to run the business for you. So that sounds amazing. And since we're talking about business, let's talk a little bit about the before and after.

Before and after the makeup. Like when you started doing hair and makeup with your clients. And when you started working with clients that were more sort of aligned to what really lit you up, right? Let's talk and we don't have to talk specifically, but let's talk about money and sort of the way that your business operated from a business and like profitability standpoint.

full time. Sure. And then when I made the change over to doing work that I actually love, and you know, working with clients on a different scale with IPS, or in person sales, I can live on that income. Now, I do still work in the salon two days a week, because I love my clients. And I'll always do hair, if I still have hands at work, I'll do hair, but I could live off of my photography business easily, with no problems now where I could have never done that

before. So it was just the right change at the right time for me.

It helps you level up what you're willing to charge how you're willing to ask your clients to show up, you're willing to direct and say this is the way it works. Like, I'm not going to do this, if we're not going to do hair and makeup first, all of those things ends up it is. And I say this, and I'm trying to spell it out and sort of break it down into pieces just because I think that, especially for someone who is either newer in their business, or they are feeling

really burned out. When you're that close to it, it can be really hard to say to see like what is wrong, I make good photos, I you know, and here I charge this like middle of the road price, and nobody's gonna pay it. Who are these people who are charging so much more? Sometimes it is a matter of looking, like taking a step back and being like, what am I doing

that I love? What am I doing that I'm willing to like bet on and go to bat for and I love your story because it really does illustrate that you were willing to kind of take a stand even though it sounds like you are nervous about it in the beginning. And then as soon as you started doing that it was like you found your like that happy place.

offer. And she's like you gave me the confidence to do it after all and that was so like that was was really touching and you know, I love I love to if I can impart an ounce of competence on any woman that walks in the studio. I have done have done my job. That's amazing.

out the door. But I totally get where you're coming from that like, there are things that maybe in order to sort of up my level of expertise, you know, when I've got somebody, if I can answer a question for them, or, or give them advice, that'd probably be a good kind of, you know, tool to have in my

toolbox. Do you feel like there are things that those of us who are not talented in that particular direction could learn from, you know, what, without going to school, you know, and making that our side hustle? Well, I

setting with lighting. It gives lots of hotspots, you know, really heavy eye makeup can cause a lot of problems and outdoor photography, because it makes it as a very small enclosed. I guess one good thing to think about is what are you spending a lot of time retouching? Hmm, those are the things that you can help educate your client on even if you don't do hair and makeup, you don't do

it for yourself. There's, you know, some very simple tips and tricks that you can learn to help your client get it right, and you can help them in person. You know, it wouldn't be bad idea to keep a few cute tips in your bag or so hairspray for flyaways just a few little odds and ends to keep on hand to help

you. Like if you are in a park shooting someone or at their you know, house or wherever you would go to shoot, just to have a few little things on hand almost like a first aid kit for beauty, just to help with little fiascos that can happen because it's going to happen inevitably, you're going to have someone with a big smudge of something on their face, or lipstick on their teeth, or you know those types of things that can really

easily be avoided. But I think it's kind of important that we understand all parts of what we do. Just says even if we can better communicate with if you are using a hair and makeup artist, if you understand hair, makeup, even a little you can communicate more clearly with your artists, you can communicate more clearly with your client, to let them know what they should and shouldn't do is going to give a better experience for your client overall. Either way you're

going. So I really do think it's kind of important for all of us to learn even just the barest little nugget about these things, just to help with our own shoots. And for clients.

makeup? Or should I go get my makeup done before the session or something like that, being able to sort of give them a knowledgeable answer that says something along the lines of it, you're welcome to you know, show up as you are, you know, I want

you to be comfortable. But if you're interested here are some of the benefits here are two, you know, makeup artists that I recommend, you know, here are the things that here are three things that you should make sure that they know, they shouldn't do, you know, like here, you know, that sort of advice, because it really does come down to your confidence is infectious to your clients, they become confident they feel willing to like move forward and make a

decision. And the more of that lifting that you can do for them and say, You don't have to go research, who to hire as a makeup artist, I've got a recommendation for you.

as competent. And obviously, you want them to trust you and, and like what you have to say and do and you know, it's a big responsibility sometimes to add that kind of trust and respect from a client and you want to, you know, you want to earn it and you want to make them happy. It's

area, that would be great. But for everyone else around the world, where can they follow you keep in touch with you because I think that once you start to I see this as something that a lot of photographers would love insight and help with and so let everybody know where they can find you.

extra money. And I think we all like money, we all like to make money. So there's just a lot of reasons and benefits to learn those things. And I want to put together or I'm putting together a comprehensive class and an online course to show the basics and little tricks and tips that look like a million bucks on film. But we're easy to do in person in ways you can change up a look really quickly and give more variety to your shoots. That's coming at the end coming