If I had $1, for every photographer that I have had a conversation with, over the many years that I've been in this business, who went through some massive stress response to a lack of response from their clients, so they send off the photos and don't hear much back, right? Maybe somebody pays for them buys them. But the photographer is sitting there thinking like, oh, my gosh, I haven't heard anything, they hate their photos, what's going
on? If I had $1, for every time I had their conversation, I'd be well on my way to retirement at this point, right? I'm sure all of you can relate. And I've been in that situation myself, like, I'm gonna add dollars for the times that I have been sitting on that pin cushion waiting to hear back. And the fact of the matter is, most of us don't put our clients in a position where they know that they need to respond or that they have any idea that we are waiting with
bated breath. On the other side, I say that I've been in that situation many times myself, the truth is that I was in that situation, every single time that I had a session probably for the first, I don't know, many years of my business, it helped that I was doing in person sales, because I got validation, you know, in front of me in person, whenever I didn't have that sort of validation, it would it would haunt me, these days, not so much. I have learned to trust that unless I am hearing
something negative in return. A silent response doesn't really mean anything different from an email or a text message or a note in the mail that says they love the photos. Generally speaking, I can assume that things are good, unless they're not. But it took me a while to get to the point where I was confident enough in my own work
that that was the case. What I want to bring that little anecdote back to is the fact that when we are in that situation, and we're waiting, and we're stressed, and whatever we are assuming that the client is going to reach out to tell us one way or the other how they feel. Maybe we've said, you know, hey, let me know what you think, or something like that at the end of an email. But it's not super direct, it's not really clear, it doesn't set
expectations. And it certainly doesn't like force the client to say anything, right. And so if you think about it, from another perspective, the client gets that email, the first thing they're going to do is go look at their photos, they're excited about those, they're sending them off to their mother and
their sister. And you're not really factoring into the equation, they paid you money, you've you've done the thing that you're supposed to do, right, they don't have any sort of sense of obligation in many cases to making you feel good, although thankfully, of course,
a lot of people do. The reason that I raise all of this is that it was part of a conversation that I had with today's guest, Melody McDonald, as we were talking about the conversation, as we were planning for the conversation that we were going to have today, melody has a really interesting backstory, she is and is sort of winding down her career for the past 20 plus years in 911 Dispatch, so she is an emergency responder who spends many, many hours a day, multiple days a week, on
the phone with people in emergent situations, people who are having, in many cases the worst day, or one of the worst days of their life, they are stressed. They're, you know, scared, they're sad, there's all kinds of emotions happening. And she is the voice of reason on the other end of the line, who is going to help them manage this emergency. Melody is also a photographer. And as her 911 career ramps down, she is getting ready to go into, you know, a more full time career.
She's been a hobbyist for a long time. And now she's hoping to take this into the next you know, couple of decades being her job. And as she has started taking on more and more photography clients and has gotten more involved in the photography community. She has seen many instances where photographers are not handling crises or even non crisis conversations with their clients
appropriately. And when she reached out she raised that situation where somebody gets all upset because they haven't heard back from their client after the client got their gallery. And they are assuming the worst. And she pointed out like that is an unmet expectation situation where the expectation wasn't made clear. And I'm probably not doing justice to the nature of our conversation going into this. But I think that the resulting conversation that I'm just about to play for you is going to
bring it all home. Melody's got so much amazing practical knowledge and Experience and advice that we can take from her many years in the emergency world and apply to our businesses in such a way that I truly think that you will see an amazing difference, not only in the way that your clients respond, but in the way that you feel about those scenarios that aren't necessarily going exactly
the way we want them to. So, without further ado, because I've already droned on, I will cue the music and introduce melody. Welcome to this can't be that hard. My name is Annemie Tonken. And I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't
have to be that hard. You can do it. And I can show you how melody McDonald, welcome to this can't be that hard. This is going to be a really fun conversation today. So I hope you're feeling good and caffeinated and ready to go. How are ya?
I am good. Thank you. How are you?
I'm doing well. I'm, like I said I'm kind of chomping at the bit. I've been looking forward to this conversation since we went back and forth about the idea because this is totally different from anything that I've done before. And I feel like our backgrounds mine as a nurse, and yours as a nine one dispatcher. Like they're different, obviously very different, but similar kinds of, you know, stressful situations and stuff like that.
But this concept of, of having that background help your photography, communication is brilliant. So I'm very, very keen to dive in. But before we do, I would love to have you just introduce yourself. Give everybody a little bit of background on your career path to this point. And, and then we'll we'll jump right in.
Okay, yeah. I have been in the 911 dispatching genre for, actually, for 25 years, I started way back in the 1998. myself a little bit. But as I worked about four years, I had some babies, I took some time off to be with the babies and I came back in 2006. So over transcending from that 1988. Today, it's been 21 years of actually answering phone calls and dispatching police fire ambulance for that period of time. And I absolutely love this
work. I've been talking about this career in many ways, through community members events that we would go to to not promote 911. But to kind of explain the process because it's changed over 25 years. And I love it. I love love love talking on the phone. I love talking to community members. I've actually probably my favorite part of 911 is talking on the phone, I do it a little bit less now because I've promoted up the ranks and I'm a
supervisor. So I oversee the dispatchers but I still get to talk on the phone and on the radio. So I've really loved this career. It's been a perfect career for me. And then I have this other side gig, right hobbyists of my artistic outlet that I absolutely love, maybe even more, I'm not too sure I really love photography. I love it's that communicating, it's that being with families on a session. I just really love that
part. So that's where now I've been as we're winding down this career 911 I'm now starting to ramp up and get prepared to actually go full time as a photographer. So
nice. Here I am today. Yeah, I feel like we can all sort of as we are moving forward through our careers or through our lives, it can be really hard to see, you know, it's like, Oh, I feel like I'm all over the place. It's all you know, I like this, but I also like this thing over here. And it's so much easier to turn around. And in retrospect, say oh, here was the through line.
And I feel like that communication and being with people at sentinel events in their lives, whether that's like a positive sentinel event or a less positive emergency type of event, you know, those things have things in common that on the surface are harder to see but when we deep dive on what it is that we're interested in and attracted to and inspired by I think that then you can start to see those, those parallels and so I think it's I think it's
really cool. I do think you are the first photographer that I have met with This background so, so that also is, is cool and kind of a standout and makes me even more excited to to get into
the nitty gritty. I, you know, we talked a little bit and I'm sure everyone listening can understand about, you know, 911 could very easily fall into like, Oh, we're gonna get triggered and things like that not interested in doing any of that for for me or for our listeners or anything else but but I would love to just kind of kick things off with you've got to have stories galore. I mean, I'm sure in 21 years, you've heard it all.
Oh, yeah. You know, it's interesting, because I, we always tell each other in our work, always have that one good call. And that one bad call in your back pocket, because there are so many calls that every day could be that new, shiny call that you put in your pocket. And then you're like, did I make that call to wait? Huh? Yeah. And then when someone asks you, it's like, sometimes it's just I have no calls. I don't even I don't even know
what to say. Right? We will definitely stay away from the triggering sad ones, because those do happen. Sure. That is part of the 911 system, right. But I will share with you. We're here along the coast. I am here in California. And we have touristy beachy towns. And that means there's also bars along the beach, of course, which means there's late night calls. And we did I'll tell you quick, a quick story that we laugh about still to this day. And it's probably been 10 years
since this call happened. But we took a call. And in the middle of the night, we're not only fire, police and ambulance, but we are a public works. And we are animal control. We do all the things. So this was an animal call. And the sweetest guy on the phone just was very drunk. Yeah, but he was a very sweet drunk. And he was very, very, very certain that there was a penguin on a beach. And it was injured. And we needed to help that penguin. And we had to like, keep asking him a penguin.
Because now we're trying to visualize what marine bird, right like a penguin? Sure. And he was like, no, no, ma'am. I have seen Happy Feet. The movie, I know exactly. What this is. This is the pink
penguin scientist, very much
he professional, for sure. And there was something in that call that he just couldn't let go. And we couldn't get him off the phone to be like, well, we also can't dis credit like we have to believe what they say, within reason. In this call, and so we sent an officer we didn't send. We didn't send animal control. We just sent the local officer that was down in the area already for Nightcrawler. You know, Brock crawls. And he comes up on the radio very first of all surprised of what we were
telling him to respond to. Yeah. And then he, he gets on on scene and he reports to us over the radio that he did find the caller. And he did find that the penguin which is Surprise, surprise, a marine bird. However, the caller cared so much about this penguin that he had the penguin in his lap crisscross applesauce, petting it. And there's nothing wrong with a bird. It was completely fine. He was just so drunk, but yet a happy drunk. So those are the good 2am calls and
then he had to be treated for avian flu. Probably Yeah, probably. All right. No, to everyone out there. Do not try this at home. We do not need to be hugging marine birds on the beach. That's super. And there's
no penguins in the
right. On the loose. Yes, exactly.
Unless they're in the zoo. I don't know.
I mean, oh, my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. So okay, so this is a perfect illustration of the fact that you get people calling in, who are, let's say, as a 911 dispatcher, they are your clients, right? Like, these are the people that you your job is to help them in whatever way they need help. And so sometimes those people call in with perfectly reasonable needs, requests, wants, whatever. And then sometimes you get the guy calling about the wounded
penguin on the beach. How is it that you have learned over the years that like, both of those, you know, there are humans on the other side? We have to sort of take that into account. And yet, like our own human selves, or you know, inner eye roll, whatever, how has that translated into your work as a photographer? Yeah, I
I think one of the things that you naturally you might not have that skill? Well, there's a couple things being an empath, I think is a really great thing to have naturally. But you don't have to have that you can build that. Right. So having that number one being knowing that it's somebody's worst day, on the other line, whatever the situation is, whether they got their car broken into the night before, and all their photography, guitar gear has been stolen, but they're calling
the next morning, right. So there isn't any threat to the person, it was just property, or the actual real emergency, right? So you have kind of this, every call that you pick up, you have to do a reset yourself internally. And you have to do that very quickly. Like I could actually be on the phone with a very critical medical emergency. And I have to hang up the phone and the phones are still ringing. And within one second, I'm picking up the next call. And it's someone completely
frantic again. But this time, it's the property here, the property that was stolen the night before, but it's but they're both their worlds are very, very life changing for both of them. Yeah, shaking is a good word. So for me, there's no judgment, from the first call to the second call that you so you
have to do this reset. And in the reset, you're resetting your heart, you're resetting, well, you're probably actually protecting your heart all the time, but you're resetting your mind, you're not carrying over any frustration or sadness from the prior call into the next call. All that to say is, the best way that I can do that job and has transcended into my photography career is being direct and being kind with every
interaction. Being direct is probably one of the top three things, maybe four things that really I have noticed, in talking with clients is the best way to work with clients and work with the public in 911 is the direct in obviously, in 911. We don't have time to go back and forth, right, we have to be direct, I can tell you, I'll ask you a question. I'm going to ask you this question. And it has what I want to know is your address, right? Where am I going
to send the emergency? Right? So I'm going to ask you, what is the address of your emergency? And what and you would say, your address, or what would you say next? I would think you would say your address?
Yeah, right.
But what if I asked you that same question, and I said, Can you tell me your address?
Then the answer is yes. Exactly. Right.
You get it right. I wasn't being direct. I felt like it was a direct question. Right. However, I what I asked you gave me which is not what I needed, right? So in the in my years of 911, we have learned that you really cannot waste those precious questions or question precious seconds with questions that are not direct. So that is, and it's you. We do it hundreds of times a day. So when you do that for years, and years and years and years, you now know that I'm going to ask you something very
direct. And as it transcends, sorry, this was a really long response. But as it transcends into clients and photography, it's asking very specific questions, but very kind and they become a natural. They don't become like, what, how am I going to ask this question? It just is, it's just natural. So
I am guessing that you do not shy away as some photographers do from getting on the phone with prospective clients. Is that a fair statement?
That'd be a very fair statement. Yes. I love talking on the phone. Yeah, so
I so I hear and I love that about you. Can you give us some examples? Because I can certainly understand where that comes into play. When it comes to like, I need your address, I need to know exactly what's going on. We're not going to sit here and chitchat about like the weather. But there's also kind of this social normative politeness factor when you're having a phone call with a prospective client who is not
in an emergent situation. So give me some examples of how the directness factor still plays in when you're having a call with someone who, let's say wants to hire you to take photos.
Yeah, well, first of all, you look all the podcasts I've listened with you and the classes that I've taken from you, you're hitting the nail on the head with pick up the phone and make a phone call. Yeah, because I want to be sensitive to the our younger generation. Yeah, because they've only known modern, they've only unknown smartphones. I'm guessing you and I both knew landlines and
your rotary phones. That's such a good perspective for me to remind myself because it for me talking on the phone is just the right it just feels the the best way to cut through any perceived inflection and tone and that you might read in a text or in an
email. So I probably will start off with a text usually it's a referral that texts me and I'll say, do you have five minutes for a phone call and or I'll actually sometimes not even tell them, I'll just dial and I'll call again, just cut being direct and cutting right to it so that they can hear me. And you can hear me right now of my tone and my vibe, as I can with you. And I can't pick that up through a text, because I'm inserting my own tone about you. So the first part is just
getting on the phone. It might sound scary. I've what I've heard from podcasts and DMS and groups is that it gets a little intimidating, because they're worried about what the client might say on the other end. But I'm here to reassure you that it really is like talking to a friend, even as a client, and maybe a brand new client. If you take it from that direct and that kindness approach of who you are, then the conversation will end up flowing naturally. Think of it like a transaction
at in the grocery line. You're talking with the person who's beeping every piece of your, your shopping cart through right. And I forgot the question that you asked me.
Oh, just how that then. So how you wouldn't just get on the phone with somebody and be like, Hi, what's your name? What's your budget? You know, there's obviously going to be a little bit more to it than that. So but what are the points that do carry over?
The first start is like active listening. This is when I put my detective hat on. Because then you can start really listening and hearing what the client actually is needing and you can kind of if you're listening for that, well, let me pause really quickly. I think I'm talking about we can talk about two things in client relationships. One is booking a client, which I think is much more safe waters, right. Nobody is upset, nobody's expectations have not been met. We're just kind of building a
relationship. Right? So there's that one, I think most of us could nail as long as we're getting on the phone or whatever. And then the second part are the are difficult clients. There's an issue.
There's an issue with the gallery there was an issue with I needed to reschedule there's 5 million weather right, like all the things that I've been hearing through these groups, and I would think that we could speak more probably, I could speak more from 911 perspective to the difficult client because yeah, because in, in active listening, you're gonna they're,
they're upset. So first of all, always get on the phone with a caller who has expressed some concern about something, if this is a need to reschedule, or they didn't like your editing style, that means there's an expectation that wasn't met, right? Then the other part of them are the other issues, I feel like I've seen are weather related or canceling, whether that's the client, or the photographer, I'm sure there's more, but those are just kind of the ones that kind of pain
points, right? You have to communicate with your client and and find a neutral ground that you both can agree upon. So in that world, I would say number one, get on the phone and listen, actively listen. And this is the point where you can be a detective, they could be screaming, they could be crying, they could be angry, there's a lot of emotions when a client is
upset, right. And so the first thing when you're listening is not preparing the response is just listening, listening and affirming what they are going through doesn't mean that you agree with everything. But when you affirm their truth, they're feeling that they're being heard. So that is the first probably most critical is listening and affirming their truth. Second would be trying to be a detective and figuring out what the problem actually is. They could and yelling about
your editing style, right? And, but they're saying so many other words, that you might even hear a lot of you you did this, you did that I didn't know a lot, right? So you're hearing these attacking words, if you can just keep like bouncing those shooting every one of those personal things to the side while you're listening. And you focus on the editing style, then you affirm their truth, and then you can go okay, what I've heard is that there's an issue with the editing style, and let go of
all the personal stuff. Yeah. And that kind of breaks through the barrier of they've been heard and now they've now they've been validated that we've picked up on the actual issue, and then you can address that. And that's how that's what happens in 9112 is they're screaming and yelling and you finally pick up on a word. Oh, property. Oh, something got broken into. Okay, and then I That sounds like a tough day for you. I'm so sorry. And I truly mean that. I'm not even
placating them. I really try to be in their space and that time and then we can start getting to the Okay, well, now you need these are the next steps that you need to take, which are never fun.
Sure, yeah. Okay, so there's so much good information in here and I just want to start by giving my vote of yes to when someone comes at you with an NG Great email, text, whatever your first of all, like, get yourself into a calm headspace, like that defensive jump up and be like, what? I edited it exactly the same way as I ended everything else. That's very natural. We all do that to a certain degree, especially when it comes to like our art which we hold in our
hearts. But, you know, you don't know what's going on with
somebody. And if you start to respond via text, I mean, this is to your point, and I can't remember this, I think was before we hit the record button, but you were talking about like what you see in Facebook groups, oh, my goodness, like all the screenshotted text threads that I see where I just am like, you know, facepalm like, Oh, my goodness, this would go a lot differently if you just picked up the phone, because a I think people you know, they hear their
own tone of voice. Like they're mad, they hear somebody else being snippy on the other side when it comes to text messaging or emails. And so things get really super, super bad, super fast. But also, like people are not as willing to yell at somebody on the phone as they are willing to yell at somebody via text. I mean, it's just, it's bingo, you have a calmer conversation, which helps defuse the whole situation. So number one, I'm right there with you.
Even if you have listened to me for years be like if you want to book more clients get on the phone with them ahead of time. Okay, if you're not going to take that advice, at least do this when you have a problem client.
Without a doubt, yeah, don't even don't like, I agree with you. And I've seen the screenshots, I'm like, Oh, what, why are we not picking up the phone? Right? Like, like it is, like, at some point, when you can sense it through a text or an email, don't respond, pick up that phone, don't respond in a text, pick up the phone and respond? Yes, for sure.
And then it really is, you're right. I mean, we have to put on like our big, big kid pants. And it is different. You know, obviously, when someone's calling to say I'm upset with you, I have an emergency with something that you caused, it is different from being on the other end of somebody saying I just had a car accident, but that need to like, let all the noise go. And instead of responding defensively, kind of get to the heart of what the actual problem
is. Because most of the time, like, unless you're really off track in terms of the way that you've been treating or neglecting your clients, the issue is going to be something that's not you personally. And so if you're doing like triaging that situation. It's important to not get defensive.
Yeah. And you're what most of the time, I don't know if you find this true, too, is there's an expectation that hasn't been met somewhere along the line, somewhere in communicating with your client. They picked up on something maybe because they weren't being super direct. So we're being general or like, maybe we'll throw in this thing. But they took that as that was
happening. Yeah, right. And you're right, I say, you're right, I'm thinking about podcasts that I've listened to that, that people don't always read every word in their contract, right? They're gonna scan it, tap the accept terms, and then move on, right? So we want them to read the contract. And they usually read it when
there's a problem. So anyway, what I'm trying to say is, there's some sort of a miscommunication, somewhere along the line that led to an expectation that was not met on your house or on the clients have her on the photographer's side of it. And I think that does some self reflection to like, after you're off the phone call after you feel like there's some sort of resolution, whatever the resolution is, that you both agreed upon, hopefully, it's very clear and direct in
that conversation as well. Then I would do some self reflecting, and kind of like, what, what went well, what didn't go well, where is there somewhere in my process that I can clean that up and be more more clear. And usually it comes from my perspective, down to the direct
communication part. And whether that was in text or an email or phone, the self reflecting I think, is one of the harder ones because you're doing some self work on on you that helps we do that in 911 when you get off the phone, and when you do have a second. And I didn't ask that address correction question
correctly. And I was frustrated, I'll hang up the phone and be like, Oh, I'm so frustrated, but I'm frustrated myself because I can identify pretty quickly that that call would have gone a different direction had I been more direct and so it like prepares you for your next one. Yeah.
Well, and it's, you know, the difficult clients, we all wish that we just wouldn't have them at all, but they do happen and the best thing that I have found that you can get out of a situation like that. I mean, sometimes it's financially a wash or a bust. Sometimes it is emotionally A bust it usually is. So once you have a moment to like, take a breath, step away from it, it's over, then you really do yourself an enormous benefit by a little bit of digging into what went wrong. Where did it go
wrong? Did it go wrong? Before there was any trouble? Because something was miscommunicated? Do I need to put a policy in place that states that, like, whatever it is that they were upset about doesn't happen, you know, whatever the whatever the case may be. I feel like, over the years, I have been fortunate to not have a lot of problem clients. And I do attribute that to a lot of communication. You know, they they have happened over time, but they happen less
and less these days. I feel like I'm just extremely clear with this is how it's going to work. Do you have any problems, and I am not afraid. The second that there is a problem a lab delivers, you know, a broken frame or something like that I make it right, because I'm charging enough to be able to just do that without even thinking twice about it. And I get on the phone to just sort of, you know, Hey, are you super frustrated? Let me apologize. I'm so sorry that that happened.
We're gonna make it right for you. And that's, you know, it's how you avoid 99% of problems.
I agree. I would also add in there, this might be a little tender, because it took us back to some Facebook groups and DMS is we're quick to jump in and get some affirmation from fellow photographers like, can you believe this? Can you believe that this happened? And I love the community that we have in photography is because photographers group because you see people jumping right in? Oh my gosh, I can't believe they
said that. But what but what I think we're doing to ourselves is we didn't do that self reflection. And we're doing a disservice because we're asking for affirmation for the behavior that we still haven't even fully not confessed to ourselves. But we really haven't. Really Yeah, we have. And so we're looking for like, I think we're looking for someone to be like, Oh, you are right. Yeah, I would, I wouldn't do that I wouldn't Don't lower your prices don't blah, blah, blah, or whatever.
And I'm being general here, because I don't want to get too specific. But you know what I mean? Like, it just is a, we need to do some self work. Before we go and ask for affirmation. Maybe it's we're going into those groups to say, well look at the story that I just worked through. And hopefully that will help prevent that happening from the next person. Like here, here are some tips and tricks. I mean, I get I get that we need some support. And sometimes we just need to
vent in some. So that's one way but I bet you, I bet you it's something that was missed between the photographer and the client, not necessarily all the problem on the client and their attitudes. So there's that one. Yeah.
Yeah, for sure. And, and I think that, you know, on the flip side of that, you get a lot of people jumping in and being like, yeah, that person is terrible, and making judgments about like, they have no idea what the situation is. And then you get the people who come in and say, I don't know, it looks like your photos are really underexposed, or whatever. And then everybody jumps down that person's throat, or the person who is obviously feeling really vulnerable gets
like, super hurt about it. I mean, like, that's, that is, I feel like, I love the photography community, too, obviously, like this is these are my people, but those groups are as anonymous as almost anything else. And so you know, when you go, like, just spraying your vulnerable situation all over the place, you're gonna get all kinds of different responses. And that can actually add to the problem rather than
taking away from it. So I love this idea of kind of processing the issue before you assume like, I'm just gonna vent about this, and I again, I mean, there are terrible people out there who are like, abusive and, like, horrible and out to get you. No question. But part of our job as photographers and as small business owners, who can only take a certain number of clients is to figure out how to find like the markers for that the red flags, and then steer clear
of them. So I think yeah, you know, there's some work to be done no matter if you are at fault or not.
Totally. Yeah. And I mean, I'm gonna go back a little bit because one other thing that I think is important too, is to slow your response. Because I think like there is a
a desire to fix. We're natural people, natural creatives who want to fix and make it right and we were also having a business right so we want to write the wrong but sometimes we don't need to either respond at all or slow our response especially if we are feeling In the tenderness of it, and we're feeling emotional about it, it is absolutely okay to say, You know what, let's take a timeout on the phone is absolutely okay to say, let's take a timeout, let me get my thoughts together,
let me think about what I've heard. And I will call you back and set a date and the time to call back. Right then in there, you're getting you're not problem solving right now. But if you are, if you can feel your heart racing, and you are ready to respond, because you're boiling over and just like rage, because you just feel like they missed the mark, or climate Spark Summit was in some way,
pause. If whatever you can do my encouragement to anybody listening to this would be take a deep breath, stop the conversation and just say, let's come back at a date and time and it could be in three hours. Or it could be the next morning, I would always say the next morning because we're always we go to sleep, and we can let me sleep have a fresh perspective. The next morning, yeah, but the other thing too, is when that's the slowing your response, I'll go back to nine alone really
quickly. He would think that we can't do that. But sometimes we're just listening, right? When sometimes it's letting them get it all out, let it just let them all out. And then your response can be just affirming their truth, and not problem solving. They might not even have anything that I can help them with. They might not need police fire ambulance, they might think they do. But they probably don't after they've told me what they've got going
on. So sometimes that's what I mean when action is not always required. So slow your response and listen, right? And then and then just say that I'm sorry that that has happened bleeds into, you don't always have to write a wrong because it might not be a wrong, it might just be an unfortunate experience that you can say I'm going to learn from and thank you for bringing it to my attention. And then maybe being okay with that and
being done. I don't think that we have to lower our prices or throw in extra things all the time. Maybe sometimes, maybe not even telling them that but then when you hang up sending them something, as a thank you for taking the time to talk to you, too about the situation. But really slow down, especially when you feel triggered.
That helps. Yeah, for sure. And I I think that that's brilliant. It's interesting. So I've never done that on the phone with a client. But I have also I can't think of a time that I've had somebody who was really bad, like mad, and that there was a situation where I needed that space. However, I have teenagers. And I definitely have been in that situation with my teenagers and I in my own like therapeutic journey have come to realize that I do jump into problem
solving really fast. And even when I'm not like in some sort of conflict with my teenagers, if they are having a problem. I have a tendency to like they'll start talking and then I'm like, Okay, so what's the plan of attack, I know, this probably comes as a surprise to zero people listening to my guess. But I do that, and I jump into problem solving mode. And what I have witnessed over and over again, is that at a certain point, my kids like eyes glaze
over and they shut down. And they actually feel like I didn't hear them at all. And so I have worked through the fact that like sometimes, especially when it comes to matters of emotion and whatever my inclination, my instinct to go and like, well, let's fix it is not only not helpful, but it can actually be
detrimental. So I think that, you know, back to what you were saying before, sometimes people who are frustrated who may be frustrated about all manner of things and are just kind of they have found some sort of like breaking point because they got five fewer photos than they thought they were gonna get or whatever, you know, you become the target of that. And we have to, in sometimes the best policy is just to give them space to vent. And then. So I love I love that you said that.
That's part of being that detective, when you're when you're active listening is identifying that there, you might pick it up in two seconds, when you're on the phone, that there really isn't a problem that you're going to fix. Like you might know that right away. But you're right letting them letting I love that you said that about your kids my minor now in their 20s, early
20s. But even still I have that and I will even say it transcends to your marriage or your relationships and my husband I have had to do it before that that timer that I've mentioned about let's pause and come back with a certain date and time my husband and I have actually used before Not that we're like in a heated argument but because we're we just we
stopped active listening. And so instead of walking away angry, we just say okay, we're gonna give ourselves five minutes 10 minutes and we'll come back we've only had to do it once or twice but it's pretty good. It isn't. It isn't effects. I mean, we still allow our you know, our sure our disagreements or whatever, but it doesn't get to that point and I think that can apply of that slow, you're slow,
I say slow your roll. But slow your response is, is something that we do in 911, almost in every phone call it we only need to be timed for that. Really critical stuff that they're like, there is no time for any emotion other than what we're dealing with right now. But every other call is, let's listen, we still need to do it in a timely manner. But you don't always have to respond. So yeah, I, if you can remember that there's lots of little
nuggets in here. But if you could remember that one as well, that's a that's a good one, just to slow down, don't have to respond right away. So
Oh, my goodness, this has been so good. I hope that if you're listening, you bookmark this podcast episode, and you keep it for yourself, and you keep it for the next person that you see who has like dropped one of those mega threads in the in some Facebook group that you're in, because I feel like this can be the difference, this kind of strategy, it seems like, Oh, this is just like a little side
strategy. This is the sort of foundational strategy as business owners, that can be the difference between you burning out and you being able to kind of keep your emotions and what you need to do to manage clients in sync. And so you know, I am a big believer in this. And melody, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your very cool insight on like your very cool perspective on on this
topic. And I know that there are going to be lots of people who are interested in bringing their next photo emergency to you. Yeah, let everybody know where they can find you.
Yeah, you can easily find me in some of your Facebook groups going in there. That's where I but I'm pretty much on Instagram, you can find me at od Mac. It's my last three letters of my first name and my first three letters of my last name. So od Mac photo, I'm on Instagram, I'm pretty much that's pretty much where you can find me pop in there. You can ask me anything about 911 as well, every senator is
different. But whenever I bring up my 911 career in a photography forum, I always get a lot of questions about 911. And I love talking about it. So ask away share story. I always love hearing stories, either a good opportunity to call 911 or a sad opportunity. I'm always here to hear about your your 911 stories. So yeah, come reach out.
I love that. So good. And I will of course link your stuff in the show notes. But otherwise, it's been a pleasure having you on. I hope you have a great day. Thank you. Thank you, you too. Well, that's it for this week's episode of This can't be that hard. I'll be back Same time, same place next
week. In the meantime, you can find more information about this episode, along with all the relevant links, notes and downloads at this can't be that hard.com/learn If you liked the podcast, be sure to hit the subscribe button. Even better, share the love by leaving a review in iTunes. And as always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.