We all learn in different ways . I mean , obviously , given that you're listening to this podcast , you probably do some of your learning via audio , but there are different mediums that work better for different kinds of learning and we learn in different ways along the you know process of our learning journey .
Sometimes , in the beginning , you need large amounts of information that's very detailed and for that sort of thing , sometimes reading a book , watching YouTube videos , taking an online course those kinds of things can be super helpful . Later on , there are more advanced online courses , there are in-person courses , there are still books .
I mean , you know , different media works at different levels , but depending on where we are in our journey , what we're trying to learn and what our own learning preferences are , there are a variety of options out there .
One of the options that has been around for a long time but seems to be growing at a rapid pace , especially in the photography industry right now , is group coaching . It feels like a new group coaching offer in my Instagram feed or in my inbox on a regular basis , and it's .
They're expensive enough and time consuming enough and also really enticing enough that I have been kind of watching them with a lot of curiosity . I wanted to talk about this , but I'm not the expert . I 've actually never participated in a group coaching program inside the photography space .
I have done a group coaching program as a as an entrepreneur slash educator , but that is a little bit different and I figure and I'm not a coach I don't do group coaching work . I have mentored people one on one and I've done some small group classes , but I feel like that's different than an ongoing engagement that is often the marker of a coaching program .
So I called up my friend , alaina Blair , who has one of , as far as I know , the original group coaching programs for photographers .
And not only do I know Alaina personally and know that she puts her heart and soul into the teaching and education work that she does , but I also know many of the graduates of her programs who speak very highly of the sort of structure and support that they have gotten inside those programs .
So I figured she would be a great person to go into a little more detail for us about what group coaching is , what you can expect and how to tell the difference between a coaching program that does what it says it's going to do , which is usually a pretty transformational outcome , versus one where you spend a lot of time , a lot of money and feel kind of
disappointed at the end . So I'm going to cue the music and introduce Alaina . Welcome to this . Can't Be that Hard . My name is Anami Tonkin and I help photographers run profitable , sustainable businesses that they love .
Each week on the podcast , I cover simple , actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way . Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard . You can do it and I can show you how . Alaina Blair , it is so exciting to welcome you back to the podcast today .
Did you know that you were my very first ever guest on this ? Can't Be that Hard , but you were . I did not know that . I know Like 200 plus episodes ago .
Yeah , I mean , it seems like you're so like I see you everywhere in the podcast world , so that it just seems kind of silly . Was it because you were doing solo episodes ? Is that what was going on ?
I was doing solo episodes , but I think you were like episode nine , I mean , it was not , it was . It was pretty early on in the process . I was like I think I'm going to start doing interviews . Who should I call ? And you were my number one call . Oh my gosh , I'm so honored . Oh , no , please .
And I'm excited and also a little embarrassed that it has taken us this long to bring you back . So super excited to welcome you back and very like ready to dive into this juicy topic . I feel like you are the number one person to talk about group coaching .
You've been at it for a while , you are so well respected in this space and I just feel like group coaching is one of those things that I am seeing more and more of , like these offers everywhere , and I know that it's a very attractive idea for a lot of people who are looking for some community and some support and some direction and some feedback and all
those things . But I think it's important for us to have just a really honest conversation about the fact that you know , it's kind of the wild west when it comes to group coaching , and so I think that having some really good ideas about what to look for what one should expect .
All that sort of stuff is gonna be really helpful to a lot of people , so I appreciate you taking the time .
Yeah , yeah , no problem , I definitely agree with you that it's kind of cropping up a lot lately , and I've been a student in a couple of really big group coaching programs as well , so I feel like I have both sides and that's kind of the thing . That helps a little bit .
Yeah , it helps in explaining it for sure , Definitely Well , before we dive into that . If anyone has been living under a rock and doesn't know who Elena Espelere is , why don't you give a brief introduction of yourself and who you are and what you do ?
Oh my gosh , that is a very nice thing to say .
I feel like you and I were just talking earlier that we're both in our 13th year of business and you know , in our industry that's kind of a long time because unfortunately there's a lot of burnout , which is why you and I have come on the scene to help with the business side of things so that people don't burn out .
But I am a lifestyle , family and newborn photographer . I also have a boutique school photography segment of my business and I teach about boutique school photography . I still photograph . I'm still very much in the game . I still photograph . Well , last year I went down to 80 and I'm trying to get down to 50 families this year , and that's by total intention .
You know , I feel like I'm going into the more consultant realm of our industry and I don't . Last year I was like , why am I this busy still , even though I'd brought it down ?
But before last year I was averaging about a hundred sessions a year for the past eight years , so definitely still very much a photographer and it's hard for me to let that go because I do love it so much . I do love it so much .
But I also have an online education platform , so I have some classes about family and newborn photography and my most popular class is schooled , which is helping photographers implement boutique school photography .
And then in 2020 , I launched my mastermind , which is the Elena Esbler mastermind , and I think that that I would say I feel like I've fallen into my life's work , you know , like it feels the most on purpose for me that I've ever felt in anything that I've ever done , because it really helps me to integrate other things that are important to me , like
mindfulness and holistic living and paying attention to this one important life that we have and really helping people integrate that into their business and their goals and their system . So it's been a fun ride for sure .
I love that Good . So let's talk about the idea of group coaching and let's start just with kind of a basic . I don't know . You said , having been on both sides of it . I have been part of some group coaching , but I have never done group coaching . So why don't you give us the lay of the land in terms of what group coaching is ?
When it comes to the photography space , Sure .
So well , I call mine a mastermind , and I think that there are lots of different categories . I guess you could say in group coaching I don't know if that's the right word , maybe that wasn't the right word like lots of different descriptions that people use .
I think that when we first came into this industry 13 years ago , there were a lot of in-person workshops . That was kind of the way that people were educating photographers . And then , of course , it came in on the online space and so you had the option to take online workshops , and then , of course , there were conferences For entrepreneurs in general .
So I'm gonna just go a little bit higher level for a minute to explain why I came up with the term mastermind for mine and how I discovered this .
I feel like the concept of a mastermind for entrepreneurs not necessarily photographers , but other business owners , small business owners it came on the scene really on the internet , because those of us that are entrepreneurs are really working alone .
We are creating these businesses from our dining room tables which is literally where I am right now and sort of building the plane as we fly . We don't really have a rule book . We don't really know what you should do next or what is the right thing for taxes ? What's the right thing for pricing ?
There's so many things to think about and entrepreneurs got hip to the idea that , while there should always be an expert in a group , no-transcript every single human has something to bring to any group environment . We all have life experiences that make us the business owner that we are . Like you and I , for example , are nurses by trade .
Right , that's what we did before and I know for a fact that , like there are times that I think back to , like my first preceptor and things that he said to me and I literally am using that in my photography business .
Like it has nothing to do with photography , but the inspiration and the , the grit and the motivation that all came from that 10 years that I was a nurse , and that's the case for everybody we all bring that to the table .
So when you form a mastermind it's a carefully curated or group coaching program , it's a carefully curated group of individuals that all want to go up it doesn't really matter , in my opinion , it doesn't really matter where you are . It just matters that you want to expand , that you are there to become a higher version of self .
And when it's industry specific , like for our business for photography , then we are .
You know , the leader like myself , for example , is bringing in all of the things that I know that have worked for me , all of the systems that I have that have worked for me , but then there's room for every single person to tailor that to their own life experiences and their own lifestyle in the area of the world that they live in .
I mean , I don't call mine , you know , six figure , something which a lot of people do . Or , you know , let's get you to multiple six figures or whatever , because some people don't want to get to six figures . For a lot of my , a lot of my members are like , hey , I've got another job that I love , I don't want to leave that behind .
Making $30,000 a year would be a huge win . Where there are some who want to make 100 or more , whatever , of course , but that's the point is that you can really take it and tailor it to what you actually need .
And I think that and I'm sorry I'm talking a lot about it , but I think the real magic this happened when I was a student , this happens in every single group that I have is that you do see that there's this little like concoction .
It's like 30 people meeting every week sprinkling their own ingredients into the recipe and every person grows because of it in so many ways , ways that they didn't anticipate . Obviously , we're looking at numbers . We want profitability , you know . You want more clients , you want sustainability . Yes , those things are important .
But other ways too , like maybe you're growing spiritually , or maybe you're seeing things from a different perspective , or maybe you decided to take on a healthier lifestyle , or all these other things that actually really matter in building a long-term business . You got to build it from the inside out , so it's just really kind of awesome to see that happen .
That's amazing , that's really part of it . Well , and I think that one of the big differences to me between a group coaching experience versus hiring a coach and doing one-on-one coaching , which can also be valuable but is a totally different thing , is the component of that .
I feel like community is such an overused word , but like it is that community and it's the sort of multiple perspectives that you're getting and , to your point , you know , people come with all of their who they are , what they've experienced , and they bring that to a group and so no two groups can ever be the same because of that dynamic and I feel like that
feedback is I love that you said you know carefully curated group , because in a group that's just kind of like , hey , anybody who wants to come in , you end up with it's . It can happen .
There can magically be that sort of group chemistry , but when somebody has really taken their own time and expertise to try to build a more intentional dynamic , still there's going to be variables that you don't account for , but it really can lead to a pretty extraordinary result .
Absolutely , and you know , I think that that term and you know , carefully curated can feel intimidating . It's definitely not a popularity contest , you know . It's not that at all , but it's but it is . You know , there's something about when I take the time . When I do , I take a lot of time . I have not figured out how to make that streamlined .
I just I interview everybody and I feel like it's just , it's totally worth it .
But when you take that time , you're able to really , you know , think about like what personality matches are going to go together , what , what type of person's really going to work well in this group , and the other part of it that I will say that's , you know , the elephant in the room is that you're with , you are considering people who are willing to bet on
themselves . You know , with money , let's do . I'm going to straight up say it what you can do is when you're paying for something , you are way more invested , you're way more motivated . Free groups are great , but you have to . You didn't put any money into it , you just show up when you feel like it and you're so .
You've got 30 people who have invested a significant amount of money into this . You know specific time period and they want to see results and so they're going to put the effort in to help out with that , with that to happen for themselves , but also for everyone else , and that for me the first one that I was a student in it was a huge financial investment .
It felt super scary but , man , I showed up in a way for myself that I have never shown up before and I know for a fact like after that year , I was a different human . It changed every facet of my life , so I'm a huge believer in every part of it .
Yeah , it is . There's that like skin in the game piece to anything that you're investing in . I was reading an article about the way that people talk about products when they have spent large amounts of money on them and how it's like you are wired to .
It is a demonstration of belief , not only in what it is that you're buying but in how it will transform you , and I feel like that belief in something like a coaching program when you're putting that money and effort toward your , your business and your sort of business growth .
It's almost I don't want to say it's a forgotten conclusion , but it really sets you up in a way that almost no kind of DIY YouTubing how to run a business can I feel like the results come and that's again .
That's sort of part of that magic chemistry of somebody at the you know who is organizing and kind of creating that space and then and then the way that it fills up .
Absolutely .
There's a little magic to it , right , it's like you have to believe in something and if you have gone through all of the stages of a group coaching program application usually there's an interview process and then you choose to invest , you believe it's going to work , and so there's a huge part of okay , well , I believe it's going to work , I'm going to put in
the effort to make it work and I'm going to do the things that this person is suggesting and make it happen . And , yeah , there's all kinds of parts that really just make it so effective . Yeah , Okay .
So , that said , I have heard some horror stories out in the world about you know . Oh , I was looking for a coach and I found somebody who had a program that was opening and I decided to invest in it .
It was a ton of money and it was a total waste , or like it was a you know a shit show , like it wasn't organized , they weren't showing up or like I don't know . They just basically didn't get what they thought they were paying for .
And I always cringe when I hear stories like that because I know that you know that's kind of a one bad Apple's wills the bunch situation and there are really good programs out there . But what have you found ? Like , what are the ? What are the red flags to look for ? What are the green flags to look for ?
Like , how do you know when a coaching program or a specific coach is the right one for you ? How do you do that research ?
That's a really good question . I do think that it's on you , the student , to do your due diligence and make sure that this person that you're hiring for a really important job , this is somebody who's going to be an integral part of your journey . You want to make sure that it's the right person for you .
So , yeah , there's a lot of coaching programs out there . One of the first and most important things I think that you should pay attention to is how they are speaking to people online and anywhere that you see them speaking to people .
So one of the red flags that you can look for is I personally feel like it's a red flag when a coach tears someone down in order to bring them up . So if you hear someone saying here's the five mistakes you're making , here are the things you're doing wrong , here's why all businesses fail , just you know , etc . Etc . They're starting with .
You are going to fail unless you come and work with me . I think that's a really good sign of how they're going to work with you as a coach , and I personally don't think that that is a very positive group coaching environment . You don't want to be torn down , to be brought back up . So really pay attention to their language .
Instead , look for encouraging language . You know , language that is bringing people up , lifting others up in the industry . That is about inclusive language is really important to look out for . So that's one of the first things . Like are they kind , do they lift people up and you'll see it now , watch now , after you listen to this , like pay attention .
There's so many people that love to bring their followers down so that they can lift them back up , and I feel like that's a really big red flag . So I'll do my first one . My second one is make sure that they've been where you want to be , or that they they maybe they're not .
You know some , some coaches aren't really working anymore in their industry and I understand that that totally makes sense , like they've got to the point where they're just consulting . But in the photography industry particularly since that's what this audience is like does this photographer have the history and the experience to back what they're trying to teach you ?
So if they're telling you they're going to get you to a certain level of monetary success or , you know , help you get published there's all kinds of different things that people guarantee as coaches . Like make sure they've actually done that and you can straight up ask them or just look back at their history , but I do I .
You know there is room for everybody and I'm sure we all have something to teach . But I will see pretty fresh photographers opening up coaching programs and I wonder if they are going to be able to give results to their students , because I wonder if they actually have the experience to back what they're teaching . So just look into it . That's you as a student .
It's not that hard to find out Like you can . Really you can figure that out pretty quick . And then the next thing , read the reviews . Like don't trust the coach . I mean you can . And I'll never forget my first mastermind round . I was like Girls it was all women that time . Thank you for trusting me , I think this is gonna work .
I straight was honest with him . I was like I think this is gonna work . I have 10 years of teaching behind me , of doing other things in smaller , bite-sized pieces , and I've given results . And that way I've never done it like this . I think it's gonna work . Thank you for trusting me . And I still feel , if there was 22 of them , they know who they are .
I feel completely indebted to them because they trust me and it worked . Spoiler alert it worked . But after the first round I have lots of reviews , so make sure that you look at the reviews .
Most coaches will be able to compile lots of reviews and when I have somebody , when I'm interviewing them and they're on the fence , I'll say send a direct message to like here's a handful of my past students . Maybe they'll answer , maybe they won't .
They're doing this out of kindness in their heart , but ask someone because you really need to make sure again that this is a positive , effective program if you're gonna invest in it . So those would be the three main things that I would say that you should look out for .
Yeah , I feel like and I know that there's variety in this , but I think a lot of entrepreneurs are problem solvers and they sort of look at and I think , especially as artists , we look at people and we assume the best . So it's kind of like you go to tour a house and all the other people at the open house are like this place is a dump .
It looks terrible . I see the potential Like . I feel like that is sort of the entrepreneurial spirit and that is , I think , a lovely personality component . I say that very much , being something that's also part of my personality .
But it can also be tricky , it can be a problem if , for instance , you go by the house that is falling apart and then you're like , oh wow , this is worth . The amount that is going to be required to make this place work is more than it's worth .
Or I have a problem and I have found a coaching program that has a spot available and , even though maybe there are some red flags or whatever , I think that this is gonna work because this one thing this person said , or this one review that was on their website that they had full control over , or whatever , looks really positive .
So I'm gonna dive in head first and I do think that I have learned , sadly , the hard way over time , that especially when it comes to a big investment or even just a big investment of time , but certainly a big investment of money you really do want to like pause , take that , do the thing where you're , like you sleep on it for a day or two and once that
initial excitement that you found a solution or a possible solution wears off , like give it some breathing room and see how you feel , and the fact of the matter is those coaches and programs that have built trust over time they're not going anywhere .
This is not like a deadlines are great and I talk about that all the time Like it's really important to give people a reason to purchase , but anybody who is using that in a toxic way should be . You should run the other direction .
It's such a good point . Yeah , and even though there's deadlines , like for mine , it only opens twice a year . It's like you can apply the next time . If it doesn't work for you this time , you can apply the next time . And you're absolutely right , you have to .
It's an investment for a reason , so you definitely want to make sure that you're ready to do that . Yeah .
Okay , so let's go back to the positive side of things and let's talk a little bit about what you see as the benefits of a group coaching program .
I know that you pointed out that , like , different coaches promise different results , but , as someone who is entering into a coaching program , do you feel like that person is better off if they have , like a very specific plan , like by the end of this , I want to achieve XYZ ? Or is it just kind of a show up and see what happens scenario ?
I mean I can speak to mine , but I think in general , when you're vetting this , you know you're like , okay , I need a coach , I need help , I want to fast track , you know , my business or my artistry or whatever .
There's creative group coaching programs too that are not about business , that are about helping you , you know , hone in on your artistic vision and style . You want to make sure that you have a clear idea of what your goals are for , usually their long term .
So for the next six months , let's say and then I would cross check that into okay , does this program promise to help me get to those goals , meet those goals ? I do think that a good coach will do some sort of onboarding process . I mean , everyone's is different mind .
They get a one hour call , just me and them , where we do go over portfolio and website and pricing and all of the things , and then we make a plan that's specific for them so that they can kind of run parallel with the program , like the weekly meetings , knowing like , okay , I have to take this part of this topic and implement it in my business , because
that's what I'm working on , since every single person will be different . So I guess I would say that you want to make sure that the program is aligned with the goals that you have set for yourself and then make sure that the coach is gonna help you to meet those goals . I think a good coach will do that . I think most of us do that .
Yeah , you don't have to answer your question . Yeah , yeah , absolutely . Do you turn people down for your membership ?
Yeah , absolutely so it is . I wouldn't call it a membership , necessarily , it is .
I mean open applications . That was my mistake . I say the word membership a lot .
I meant mastermind , yeah , yeah yeah , no , I know it's fine . Memberships are great too , though , but mine is pretty specific . So yeah , I absolutely do . We usually have about 100 apply for the 30 spots and I usually interview 60 . It's been like pretty . The number has been like rain it's right as rain .
I don't know what that's about and I have but got really good at knowing what questions to ask to really kind of weed out the ones that are not ready or are just excited about this opportunity but really they're not at a place yet to invest financially or it's really an investment of your time .
Your time is your most valuable currency and for a lot of people , once a week for five months is something they can't do . So I'm able to really weed those ones out with the questions , and then I have specific questions that really help me to know if I'm , if I am , in a heart connection with that person .
I know how cheesy that sounds , but like I really need to know that they are going to be like there for the personal development , mindset stuff that I do , because I really think that that's . I believe that our businesses are super personal and I think that's a big component of my mastermind , so I want to make sure that , that that they're hitting that mark .
And then in the interview is when I really do the last betting process . And usually when I bring people to interview I'm pretty confident that they could , they would be a great fit and the you know 5050 is about finances . Usually it's about whether they want to pay it or not .
So , so , beyond finances and time , do you feel like if the people listening at home right now are kind of thinking like , oh , a group , you know , group coaching scenario sounds amazing , is there a way , beyond those two things , for them to say maybe this is not the right time ?
Like , is there someone who group coaching is not for or is not for right now , or is it really just a matter of finding the right coach ?
It's a matter of . I think we could all . I think 100% of us could benefit from a coach at any given time . Here's one . I think it's not a great time and I think that I'm answering your question correctly , but maybe not . So there are those students we've all had them who are serial students . They never take what they're learning and implement it .
I always tell mine at the end and like , take a break from podcasts and YouTube and don't get another coach for at least three months , if not six . And I'm not saying that because I think I'm amazing and that I think I'm the best coach . I think they will be ready for another one in six months .
But you have to take the time to implement what you learn or else you are never going to actually see the benefit .
I can be totally guilty of that as a junkie of personal development as well , where I'm like one book after another , you know , one podcast after another , and I realize , wait , I'm just listening to all these great tips and doing zero of them Like I haven't , I haven't tried one of these great things that I've learned and I have to take , you know , a couple
months off of the books that I'm listening to or whatever . So it's that that would be the person that I would say shouldn't do it . If you're just on the heels of having been a member of another group coaching program or taken a really big class , give yourself some time to implement that Like . Go , actually try it , and that's the . That's the .
That's the problem for a lot of you out there and a lot of us out there is that you are getting . We can tell you exactly what to do , and truth is , if you do it , it'll work , but most people don't do it . So take the time to actually implement what you're learning first , and then you can say , okay , all right , I implemented all that stuff .
I saw some growth . Now I'm ready to learn a little more about like for you . Like , if they did , you know , say they just took one of my family classes and now they have a great posing system and a great system for a family photo session and they need pricing help . Now it's time to take your pricing class because they're ready for that .
But maybe if they took them at the same time , they wouldn't have implemented them both . So that's , that's that would be the point I would say is , make sure that you're actually pausing and doing the things that you're learning .
Yeah , like I will raise my hand and I think everyone can like at some point or another . We are part of that . I call it passive action , like where you're like oh . I am working hard by listening to podcasts and , you know , doing reading books .
That's all great , but until you actually integrate that knowledge into your business or your workflow or your whatever it does , that's just something that you know about now .
So putting that knowledge into action is really the final key , and I I do feel absolutely that for someone who , even if somebody feels like they have a track record of that passive action and they've been guilty of that , that's not like who you are . You can choose to change that .
And if you go into a coaching program , explicitly saying like this is something I've been guilty of in the past and in part of what I'm doing by putting my time and money and energy toward this , is committing , double committing to myself that this time is going to be different , absolutely , yeah , that's I . I think that we can .
We can also do ourselves a disservice by judging our actions or our past actions like , oh , I've bought all these online courses and I've never done anything with them . Well , that doesn't mean that that has to be the case next time , exactly so no , no , we are .
I mean , I always say that we are always growing until we die . That's the day I die is when I'm like stagnant . Yeah , and yeah , you can change any habit and make a plan to actually implement the things that you're learning . And there is this . There's also a phase in any journey where you , you need to just be absorbing . You're taking it all in .
You're taking it all in . So just take inventory . Okay , is it time to actually , you know , put some of this to action ? And then again , then you know you actually like bump up against , like roadblocks , you like it's almost like with your . I'll use a camera gear example .
You know you get that first camera and it's a little bit basic and you use , use the heck out of it until you're like , okay , I do need something better . Now , this isn't working for me anymore . And then you get the better camera . So , same with knowledge , same with business . You know you can max it out .
Absolutely , that's great . I totally talk about that too where don't buy a new camera until you know exactly why your current camera isn't serving you , and I think I've never thought about it from the knowledge sphere , but that's absolutely true as well .
So good , elena , tell everybody where they can connect with you and find out more about your group coaching program , your mastermind .
Yeah , so I have an education website which is alanaesplarecom . So S is in Sam and there's a tab that says the Elena Explorer mastermind up there , so you can find it there , and the blog has a ton of free resources as well . And then you can always find them Instagram alanaesplare , underscore photography . Those are the two .
I think those are the two places I spend the most time , and the mastermind opens up applications twice a year , so I can get on the wait list if it's , if you hop over there , and it depends on I don't know when this is airing , but if it's not accepting , just get on the wait list , but great .
Wonderful Well , thanks so much for taking the time to come chat . It's always lovely to see your face and and we will be sure to not wait 200 more episodes before you come back and join me again .
Yeah , I love it that this has taken off so much . So anytime you want to have me , I'm happy to be here . Thanks so much , All right have a great day .
All right , you too , take care . Well , that's it for this week's episode of this . Can't Be that Hard . I'll be back , same time , same place next week . In the meantime , you can find more information about this episode , along with all the relevant links , notes and downloads at this . Can't be that hardcom slash learn .
If you like the podcast , be sure to hit the subscribe button . Even better , share the love by leaving a review and iTunes . And , as always , thanks so much for joining me . I hope you have a fantastic week .