Ever since I started in the education space, one of the first things that I cover, whatever you're learning with me, is pricing. And the reason that I start there, even if someone feels pretty confident in their pricing is that most photographers that I come across are not adequately making space in their pricing budget, so to speak, for saving for the future retirement accounts, that sort of thing.
Most of us, especially early in our careers are so worried about just paying our day to day expenses, that we tell ourselves, I'll deal with, you know, saving for retirement later, that is a luxury that I can't currently afford. And speaking as someone who went through a divorce and had almost nothing to show for it, when it came to retirement funds and that sort of thing. I have learned kind of late in the
game. And definitely the hard way that that is something that can't be put off, and the further you put it off, the harder it is to catch up. So it's something that you know, I'm not a financial advisor, I don't feel prepared to give people advice about how to handle their money. But one thing that I can very confidently tell people is that a you want to set up your photography business correctly. And be you always want to have an eye on the future of not only your business, but your life,
right. I mean, we work in an industry where at some point, you are probably going to want to consider scaling back or stopping doing the literal heavy lifting of photography, wedding photographers I know, you know, at some point or another, they say these 1012 hour days carrying around heavy equipment and trying to keep my energy up. That's not something that I can continue to do until I'm 70
years old. As a family photographer who frequently has clients with two and three year old kids, you know, I'm down, running around on my knees or trying to crawl under the coffee table to get that fun photo of a toddler. And that's not something that I anticipate being able to do when I am much older. And of course, there's always the potential that you become injured, or handicapped in a way that limits you from doing the work of a
photographer. So in addition to setting your photography, business upright, and making sure that you're, you know, giving yourself padding and being able to save and all that sort of thing. I also think that it is just basic good advice to consider what if something were to happen, what would be a fallback for my income, and that could be something inside the photography space, it could be education, like what I'm doing here, it could be something outside the photography space.
So you know, if you're a really good editor, you could be a photography editor on the side, you could be a website copywriter on the side, you could do all kinds of different things within photography. And of course, there are countless ways to earn money outside of photography. But today's conversation is centered on this idea of diversifying your income thinking about how you can protect yourself from the potential for one part of your income getting reduced or even
cut off. And the person that I get to talk with that about is Nikki Closser. Nikki is a longtime photographer, she does personal brand work that is amazing. But she has also diversified her own portfolio. She is now the host of the Portrait System Podcast with the Sue Bryce education team. And you may know her from there. She also has gotten into real estate investing and some other things.
And we are basically just kind of chatting about how our own personal stories have led us to making those decisions and protecting our businesses. And I hope that this serves as a reminder and an inspiration for you as well. So without further ado, I will cue the music and introduce Nikki. Welcome to this can't be that hard. My name is Annemie Tonken. And I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they
love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it. And I can show you how. Nikki Closser are welcome to this can't be that hard. It's so great to see you and to to get to chat with you again. How are you in Hi,
I'm great. It's such an honor to be here. Thank you for having me.
Oh no, the honor is all mine. I got to chat with you on your podcast. Gosh, it feels like ages ago and we have been waiting and then I got COVID And it's like delay delay delay. So I'm super excited for today's conversation.
Yeah, let's do it. So yeah,
I guess we'll start out the way we normally start out, which is to just have you introduce yourself in case anyone doesn't know who you are and what you do. And then we'll go from there.
Okay, I'm Nikki Clauser. And, gosh, you know, I, I try whenever people ask me, like, what do you do, and I'm like, Well, I do a lot of things. I've been a portrait photographer for 10 years. Prior to that I was a school social worker for 12 years. So that was a total changing career. And now I host the portrait system podcast, I do photography, education, I do some real estate investing, I have a business there. So kind of dabble in a
lot of different things. But photography has been my, like, base income for the last decade.
And I mean, part of the reason that we're chatting today is because you do have your fingers in so many pies, and you do it all. So well. And I think that as creatives a lot of us have, and I don't want to like misuse an actual medical diagnostic term, but like, we kind of have life ADHD, where we get excited and inspired by a lot of different things. And so, you know, pursuing all of those passions, or several of those passions, can be problematic if you're not giving anything, your full
attention. But it can also be a really good way to diversify your income and protect yourself from you know, the inevitable ebbs and flows of business, in whatever corner you're in. So, so yeah, I think that giving us kind of the backstory on your journey, and how you have come to do so many things. So well, it's gonna be really enlightening. So yeah, let's kind of rewind it back to when you were switching over from social work into photography.
Yeah, you just said that. So perfectly the way you just described all of that. Yeah, I feel like I have the 10 year itch with my career. Because like I said, social worker for 12 years, and I got to the point where I was just so burned out. And I mean, let's face it, social workers do not make the big bucks. You know, I was I didn't know how to manage money at the time. So I was in
debt, I was unhappy. And it was, and that's not not normally like me, like, my disposition is usually pretty cherry, you know, I didn't struggle with depression before. And when that hit my husband, I were like, Okay. And I kind of said, like, I just have to do something different. And I decided I was going to do photography, like on a whim. And the next thing I knew, I was just slowly but surely growing my business, and I ended up going down to part time, for a full year at the
school. And then after that part time, for a year, I was able to quit that job and really just do photography full time. So yeah, it was pretty cool. And it's not like, it's not like my husband had this, like amazing job where he could pay the bills, you know, like I needed to pull my weight when it came to bills. So that was, I think that helped to motivate me a little bit to work even harder.
Whenever I mean, if anyone listening knows my backstory for sure, I switched over from nursing to photography, and it was the same thing. It was like I was working two full time jobs for a while because I knew that the only way that I could go full time on photography is if I was replacing my income or better, like we write me. And so it was from day one. I was like, I have to get this. Right. Yeah, yeah. Which is a good motivator for
sure. But when you first started in photography, what, what kind of genre were you focused on?
I started a little bit of everything I did, the families I was doing like the $75 shoots in the park. You know, seniors, I never did babies. That was something I didn't really do. I didn't weddings, I did weddings for about five years. But the thing that really stuck with me that I resonated with so much was personal branding. So I started doing that back in 2012 was when I started and I realized like, I love this, like I love helping
entrepreneurs. I mean, ultimately getting new photos, this might sound a little dramatic, but getting new photos helps them make more money, ultimately, in the end, which means they have Okay, I want to start by saying I'm probably going to talk a lot about money throughout this, but I don't want it to be it's not so much about the money. It's about the experiences, that money offers my life and the things that I get to do because of the money. So when I say like I help other
people make money. It's ultimately bettering their life because they get to do the things they want to. I mean making sense like I just don't want it to sound like it's all about the money but it's life experience.
I actually really appreciate you bringing that up because I make a point on here as much as is relevant. Like I'm not just like money, money, money, money, money, but the fact of the matter is that most of us do not have the luxury of working for fun If you write in for if you are someone who can afford to work for fun, you typically do that for a short period of time. And then you're like, oh, that's actually real work.
Right? For
fun. And so as much as I think a lot of artists and photographers have a hard time saying, I want to make more money, or it's not that I need more money, I just would like more because it affords me certain things. I think that has a really bad stigma attached to it or reputation in our industry. And as much as I don't want to swing us all the way to the other side where we're all like posing on Lamborghinis. And like,
I drive a minivan, let's just make that clear. I do drive a minivan. So
but at the same time, I feel like we could probably own that a little bit more and acknowledge that it is okay to want to increase your income and protect yourself. Yes. When it comes to, you know, if you're living hand to mouth, that's a pretty dicey spot to be in.
I've been there, I mean, paycheck to paycheck, when I was a social worker, I was making 3300. Okay, and this is when because I was born and raised in Michigan, and I had a job at one of the highest paying school districts in Michigan, and I was still only making like, $50,000 a year. And then I moved to Seattle, and I could not get a job. So I was working for like 15 bucks an hour and a master's degree, it was just one of those things where, you know, I was 100% living paycheck to
paycheck. And then when I did get another job as a school social workout social worker out there, I took like a $10,000 pay cut, I was making like, $42,000 a year was like, $3,000 a month. And then when I was doing photography, all I had to do was two shoots to make $3,000. And I was like, whoa, okay. And I have the freedom of my time to like, design my schedule, however I wanted. Whereas before, I mean, I had to eat lunch from 1112 to
1142. Like that, you know? Yeah, I'm just not a good, I'm not a good employee anymore. Like, I'm so used to the freedom of time and just designing my life, how I want it to be. If anything, being an entrepreneur, that is my favorite part,
I joke all the time that I would be a terrible employee, I would be if someone gave me like, all the room to do it my way. But as soon as they started trying to like, tell me how and when to do everything.
Yeah. But yeah, personal branding. So to go back to what you originally asked me personal branding for me was, was really great. And I found that once once people kind of saw the results they were getting from the photos or their friends, the results their friends were getting, because I joined networking groups, networking groups, for me, was like it catapulted my business.
That's when the client started really, like snowballed when I went in to these networking groups, but I didn't go in like, I'm gonna book 10 People today, I went in, like, I'm going to start building relationships with people. Because I was way, way more expensive than the other, like headshot photographers that were in the group. So I knew I had some work to do. I knew I needed to build relationships, I needed to show
the value of what I did. So it took some time, it wasn't just an overnight situation, but I like hit these networking groups hard. And some of them I, some groups, I didn't feel like were for me, especially the ones that were like, You have to come, you know, four times a month, and you have to meet with X amount of people. I'm like, don't tell me what to do. I don't like to be told what to do. Like, no,
this isn't gonna work. But once I found the groups that I felt comfortable in, that really was a game changer, for sure.
Can I pause for just a second? Because I feel like networking groups are one of those things that a lot of photographers may not be even familiar with as a concept. Where did you find those? who, you know, how are you getting involved? Is that sort of a pay to play thing? Is it an invitation thing? How did that work for you?
It's usually a minimal fee. I want to say, let's see, there was one here in Michigan that I joined when I moved back here and it was like $150 a year. But then each event you went to it was like 10 or 20 bucks. So it wasn't a huge amount. Well, okay, for me anyways, at the time, it wasn't a huge amount, like I knew the investment would pay off. Some are a little bit more expensive.
It just depends. But overall, it's not like it was 1000s and 1000s of dollars for me, it was, you know, pretty low bar for getting into some really great marketing opportunities. So
yeah. So if I mean if you're if you're wondering what a networking group is, and whether or not you should join it if you google your area, or the largest city in your area with networking groups, or if you want to join like a women's group or in women to be honest, so some of these women's groups were weren't just for women there were even though it was like marketed as a women's group. We often had men in the group and we always remembered the men because there were only
a few of them. We always remembered what they did, you know? So, but anyways, and again, you know, try out a couple groups and see see what makes sense for you. And some of some of them meet online, which I don't love as much because it's just so much harder to make that personal connection with someone. Like if I saw someone standing there like a wallflower looking really uncomfortable. I was like, right up to them, like, hey, what do you do? You
know, this is so and so. And this is so and so because I remembered what it was like to stand there. Like, I don't know anybody. I don't know what to do right now. And I remember the person who came up to me to make me feel comfortable. And that person who was the wallflower now remembers that I did that for them. So, you know, it's just really, it's just building relationships from the start.
And these groups and when they need what you offer, they think of you and they might pay more, because of that relationship they have with you.
So you were getting into these networking groups, you were building your personal branding empire, as it turned into eventually. How did you take it from there?
Yeah, I did that for almost 10 years, I was shooting like 10 to 12 photoshoots a month. Okay. Now, I was also doing weddings in there for a couple years. The last wedding that I shot, though, was in 2016. I had my first son in 2016. And I knew I didn't want to do weddings
anymore. You know, it was kind of like I had a scarcity mindset, like, you know, when you book weddings, you can see that your calendar is booked out for next year, and you take half the deposit when you book it, and then you know, you're gonna get the other half when you
shoot the wedding. So it was just kind of mindset that I knew the money was coming, where with portraits and personal branding, you don't usually book a year out, you know, I'm usually booked out like two months, you know, and so I would look at the calendar and be like, Well, that looks empty, like that scary or whatever. But as soon as I had my son, it was such a game changer. For me. I remember the first wedding and he was in the NICU for the first three weeks
of his life. And then the first wedding that I went back to he was like eight weeks old, or 10 weeks old or something like that. I hated it. I was in the bathroom pumping every three hours. It was of course the one wedding that was so overtime, and I ended up being away from my newborn for like 12 hours. And I was having I had my first panic attack, like it was awful.
And I was like, I am so done. So that flipped my scarcity mentality to like, it's, it's going to be okay, I'm going to book this calendar up, and I did. So from then on, it was like 10 to 12 shoots a month, with an average sale of back then it was probably about 1500. And then ultimately it was 2000 a month per sale. And that's kind of that was how I did it for a long time.
Yeah. And I mean, people. So I also started out doing weddings and portraits, I never got into branding work. But at some point, I got busy enough in both that I needed to kind of choose one or the other. And for me, it was a no brainer to go with family work. Because whereas to your point, like with weddings, you have the I don't know security blanket of future bookings. And you have those deposits that are coming in, and it does feel like a lot of money for one job. At the same time.
You know, most weddings are, it's up Saturday of your life. And our for hour, I was looking at the income and it just made so much more sense and money to stick with portraits. So totally similar, totally a path. But now as you kind of teased at the beginning, you do a lot more than just photography. So talk to me a little bit about how and when it grew from just diversifying your port your income portfolio within photography to then moving to the next level.
Yeah, like I said, 10 year itch. So I did this for about 10 years. And I got to the point where I'm 45 now, so I didn't you know, from I started my business when I was like 3434 I think and so I just I don't I don't know what it is I just get, I just start to get bored and a little burned out. And when you do the same things over and over it and I was doing creative shoots as well to just kind of feed that part of my brain and what I needed or
whatever. But once I Okay, and I do have to say I still do personal branding shoots and I really love them but I do like to a month, three months, you know, it's not my full time gig anymore. And I don't know if it's just a social worker in me like the the teacher in me, but I was so excited thinking like, Okay, I've changed my life from from this business. Like, I would love to be able to teach
others to do it as well. And if if you're a close friend of mine, you know that I'm always like, okay, like, let's brainstorm what you could do. Okay, I know you hate teaching right now. So let's see how we could take those skills so that you can have a life that you you know, can design or whatever it my friends know they're always like, okay, Nike, like whatever like I just am that person who wants the others, just loving what they do. and loving their
life. And I was encouraged to start kind of doing some things that to teach others and I went for it. And I started out with just email templates, because you know how it is with having to automate, automate things. And it you can save yourself so much time with templates. So I did that I have a lightroom presets. And so I started selling those to other photographers. And I saw that bringing in some passive income.
And I was like, wow, that was kind of nice, I made, you know, a couple 100 bucks was asleep last night, like, I really like this. So I started doing that. And then ultimately, that led to me doing a personal branding course and an on location photography course. And so that's been really great, too. And just having having the opportunity to have other people learn from my mistakes. I'm super open, like, I don't hide any of my mistakes and things that I did wrong and that sort
of thing. So, so yeah, so having that extra passive income will, okay, it wasn't passive at first, like, it's, you know, it takes a lot of work to create these things, obviously, as you know, so but, you know, eventually it becomes sort of passive. And I was like, Okay, this is great. Like, I can do a little bit of photography, I have some of my course income. And yeah, so allows me more time with my kids. So yeah,
I also think, and I've talked before, a little bit about getting into the education space. And similarly to you, I'm, I'm that person in my friend group where somebody's talking, I'm like, oh, okay, it's a it's a problem. How are we going to solve it? Yeah. And, like, I feel that creative juices flowing around business ideas, it sounds like very much the same way as you do. And, and so education for me also felt like kind of a next step. When did you start doing more
education? Like, when did you first launch those email templates?
Let's see. I did the email templates, like six years ago. Okay. Yeah. So that's been a little that's been a little while. The the courses, my first one I did in 2020. I mean, we had some downtime there. So it kind of made sense for me to, you know, do the do the course then. And then the second The On location course outdoor, and on location course I did that launch this year, or last year started 2022. Oh, nice. Congratulations. That's, thank you, thank you, thank
you just like having a baby. It's a whole thing.
I know, it's the best. I love it.
Yeah, the reason that I was gonna ask is just that I happened to launch my education business, or start really getting into education at the beginning of 2020. And January, when the pandemic hit. That was, it was a huge piece of my sort of financial safety net. And that was kind of the next thing that I wanted to talk to you about when it comes to adding other income streams.
Because there is something to be said for, you need to give yourself enough space to focus on what you're doing and make sure that what you are delivering whether it's photography, or education, or something else completely, you need to be doing well, right. Obviously, we don't be a jack of all trades, master of none. But at the same time, it's kind of
like an insurance policy. So I sort of brought that up, because in a way, having multiple income streams really can be almost like a bit of an insurance policy, if one thing gets really quiet for a period of time, hopefully not because of the pandemic again, but then having different kinds of income or income coming in from different directions can really protect you and your financial security.
Well, you know, it's interesting, because my husband and I lived in Seattle, and my kids, well, my kids are six and four now. So we lived in Seattle for 11 years. And I wanted to move back to Michigan for like, 10 of those years. So we we spent a lot of time going back and forth. And it was like 2016 or 17 that I started a studio in Michigan as well. So anytime I wanted to come home to Michigan to visit my family and
friends, I could work. So I had studios in both Seattle and Michigan fully operating, you know, lots of shoot studios. So it was it was crazy. But I started to think like you know, when we go back to Michigan for these extended periods of time, our Seattle house is just sitting there empty, like what could we do with it? And we didn't own a home in Michigan at this time we would go home and stay with my in laws or whatever. So we started Airbnb at the Seattle house while we
were in Michigan. And I was like dang, this is pretty lucrative like not my favorite thing in the world to do and I won't Airbnb again, I don't think but at the time it was bringing me in like an extra $1,500 a month and that was paying for our flights home. And I saw like okay, this is kind of cool. This is some extra income coming in. And like you said, I'm always thinking about little ways to bring in that extra income. So that was like the start of my
real estate. You know, I mentioned at the beginning that I am a real estate investor now, and that was kind of the start of it.
And so what is your real estate investing? What has that turned into?
Well, it's funny, because the way it really happened is I was asked to be the host of the system, the one that you were on with me. And in order to be the host, the producer was like, I have some homework for you. I was like, okay, he's like, I want you to listen to 10 episodes of this podcast called bigger pockets. It's a real estate and real estate, investing podcast, he's like, it'll probably be boring for you, whatever. But I want to structure the podcast how BiggerPockets does it and I'm
like, Okay, sounds good. So after listening to like, the second episode, I call my husband, and I'm like, why are we not investing in real estate? Like I knew about the Airbnb opportunity, but I just didn't understand. I knew nothing about investing in real estate. And let's be honest, as entrepreneurs, we don't have pensions, we don't have 401 K matching, like, we don't have any of that. And so I started to think like, okay, you know, I'm, let's see, when was that that
was early 2020. So I was like, 42, at the time, or 42, something. And I was thinking, you know, we have to start saving for our future, we have to start investing. And this, this listening to this podcast, really just kind of kicked it in gear for me. And from then the first thing we did is we owned our house in Seattle, and we got a home equity line of credit. And I bought a six unit apartment building in Michigan with that. And that's kind of how it just, it just started
that way. And now I own let's see, we own 50 units, we're about to close on 30 More, at the end of February. So I just start, like I bought my first building in September of 2020. So it's only been two and a half, not quite two and a half years. And I'm at 80 units like and it's not like we were rich. And yes, we did have the HELOC. You know, the home equity line
of credit. But I it's just it's just amazing what you can do if you really just like workshop your resources and try and you know, work with what you got?
Yeah, well, and I think the reason that I was so excited to chat with you about all this is that it is very easy. As entrepreneurs, we wear a lot of hats, there's a lot going on in our little businesses, it's easy to put the blinders on, and just what's directly in front of us. And it is really important to periodically pick your head up and look further down the road and say, am I setting myself up? So that future me is still taken care of not just like next week
me. But like five years from now me 10 years from now me? I know too many photographers who so as part of actually most of my courses, I have people run their numbers really in a very detailed way. And and one of the line items in that is like where's your retirement savings? And I can't tell you when I'm you know, chatting with people about the way that they're going through the calculator. How many people say well, I'm not, I'm not doing that now. We'll do
that later. Yes. And it's like, right, okay, let's come back to that and build that into your pricing and into your income. And whether you're getting that from photography, or you've got some sort of side hustle to your, to your business. It's so so important. And that really starts with educating yourself. I love the fact that you came across that outside of the photography realm.
Yeah. And I want to be clear, too. It's not like, you know, the real estate that I have right now, that's not pay, like I don't use that to pay my bills. I that's real estate's a long game. Real estate is an investment opportunity. I mean, and when within a couple years that probably will, I'll probably switch over to that paying my bills, I'll get to that point for sure. But it's one of those things where you have to look at investing as taking money, putting it
somewhere for a long time. And then when you're ready, it'll be there. And it's one of those things where I think people get really nervous to take a chunk of money and put it somewhere because it's it's just not a tangible thing yet, if that makes sense. But there has to be a shift there because I know I didn't want to be like slang in my camera when I'm 75 years old. You know, I will always do photography in some way I anticipate like it's just such a
cool thing to do. But trading time for money is very different than you know kind of more of a passive and I hate to use the word passive because there's always work that comes with it. But it's different than trading time for money like if I'm not shooting, I'm not making money. You know. And that's kind of the idea of trading time for money. Although I will say one thing I left out of a way that I was bringing in extra income is when we moved back to Michigan at the end of 2019, like December,
November of 2019. And I had an associate shooter with me in all through 2019. And then when I moved back, and she was in Seattle, so she was doing shoot, I trained her, she was doing shoots for me out there, I was doing the retouching, she would do the photo viewing. And we were sharing the profit that way. So that was another way that I had income coming in. And then she left Seattle, and I just called it a day and didn't hire, you know, train anyone
else. But that's another way that you can bring in extra income to and your photography business side out
there. Yeah, it's absolutely possible to do this within photography. But it's also worth exploring if there are other avenues that you can pursue. And one of the things in my own experience, and actually that of my fiance, he used to be a wedding photographer he has now as of the pandemic he switched over, because he had been sort of dabbling in Airbnb. And then he went full all in on Airbnb. So now he owns several properties. And he manages the awesome, and
it is a full time job. Like he works very much full time doing that. But what we have both talked about a lot is how many of his skills as a small business owner, as a photography, business owner, he has turned into being a better Airbnb host and owner than much of the competition because, you know, it was like, he knew how to create a great experience for someone he knew how to handle customer service. He knew how to put systems in place. So that was not having to constantly
like touch everything. I love how this journey can be. It's all additive, right? Like always learning and you're taking the lessons that you've learned and applying that and your creativity to whatever adventure you're going to next.
I'm so glad you brought this up. That's so important because it's when you shift into something else, it's a million times easier, because what you said you already know what to do, like so my business partner and I who actually Aaron Anderson is his name. He was the producer of the podcast, the portrait system podcast, he and I started a business called Dream Life investors because we realized we could scale a lot quicker if we were offering other people the opportunity to
invest. So like with real estate, I think it's pretty remarkable how many people say they they're interested in investing in real estate, but they just don't know how they don't know what to do. They don't you know, it's can be very overwhelming to learn. So there's a couple of ways you can invest in real estate like your fiance does. There's Airbnb, some people are all about like finding buildings, like commercial multifamily, for me is apartment buildings and that sort of thing. That's my jam.
Like I absolutely love it. I love finding places I love, you know, buying buildings from a slumlord and turning it into a really great place to live. That's, you know, there's just everything about it I love. Now some people don't want to do the work at all, they just want to be like here, take my money and invest it for me. Because I don't want to, I want to be hands off. So there's just lots of ways to do it. So Aaron, and I were like, Okay, we could scale this quicker if we offer
this opportunity to others. And so we started dream life, which is a syndication company. So other people give us their money, and we invest it in properties, and we're investing our own money as well. Like, we always put our money where our mouth is, because that's you know, but like you said, I knew right away, we gotta get an email list going like step because I didn't do that at the
beginning of my business. And I should have so anyone out there listening photographer or otherwise, get that email list started. I wish I would have started that sooner. So things like that, how to design a website, I think I had our website built in like three hours on show it like, no problem. And I'm not a web designer, you guys like I that not my thing. But when you do it long enough, all of a sudden is
easy. If I was just starting this business, without having any of my business experience as a photographer before, we would never be as far along as we are not a chance
and photography, amazing. First business to own because the stakes are pretty low and you can't you know, and I say the stakes are low, because the overhead is typically quite low and able to manage a lot of things as a single person, you can get stuck
in that. But if you move through it and you learn the lessons that you're learning, and then you're willing to translate those, you have a set of business skills that very few people have if you're working in the marketing department of you know, Acme Company, whatever. You know, your slice of the business, but as photographers we know a mini business in its entirety, and that's a really powerful
thing. It is it is cashew bring up that's just it's amazing. Yeah, it really truly is. And like you said, like about your fiance with the customer service aspect that is super important to us too. And I will say like, this has been really overwhelming and in like a really great, like loving way to me, a lot of people are investing with Aaron and I. And they specifically said, we're investing with you because we know like and trust you. Because
I've been following you. For the last 10 years, I watched you grow your business. I watched you with Sue Brice, I watched you, you know, I listened to you on the podcast every week for the last three years. I feel like I know you. And I know you're good at what you do. So therefore, take my money and do whatever you want with it. I'm not even kidding. Like it has
been. Like, it could seriously bring me to tears like how incredible it has been, you know, and so don't like I guess if you're out there wondering if you want to switch your industry or start a new business or start something else. Think about the people that you have, who know like and trust you now. And, you know, bring them along somehow it's like, just all of it has meshed incredibly together. It's it's been really remarkable.
I think one of the more fun exercises, the older I get, and I guess this is one of those where the extra size just gets more fun, the older you get is to really turn around I remember especially in my 20s because I bounced around career wise a lot. And I remember thinking as I was sort of looking forward, like, oh my gosh, who am I I'm so all over the place. Nobody's ever gonna take me seriously, because I'm just like, that seems cool. That
seems nice. And now looking back, I mean, it is my career path, if you want to call it that is like this very, you know, zigzaggy line, but I now can look back and say, Oh, this is how they're all connected. And I love doing that with my other like my peers. And I'm sure yours is the same way it sounds like you've got this through line where you know, you wanted to serve people you wanted to, you know, and all of those little skills and personality traits really do
come into play. That's so cool.
And I think part of it is, is making sure to kind of stick with your strengths. Like the things that you want to do and the things that you're really good at, like Aaron is more of the numbers guy. He's the one who like sets up the portal like that we have and all
these things. I'm the one who like built our team here in Michigan, I'm out looking at properties, I'm the boots on the ground, I'm the you know, exactly the things that I love to do in my photography, business, you know, the networking, and just like the creative part of it, you know, I'm doing all of that like designing, you know, our brand colors, and all of that for this
current business. And I feel like if you're gonna start something new, whether it's for passive income, or just a new business or whatever, make sure you're doing the things that you love, and not taking the things that you didn't enjoy about the other business and then doing the same thing again, because that's just gonna burn you like, Okay, one more thing when I when I was transitioning, when we moved to Seattle, and I started to get burned out on being a social worker, I was like, I
want to do something different. I know, I'll start a nonprofit. So I started, I started a nonprofit. And it was really it was really, it was really incredible. We did autism education and advocacy in developing countries. So we had projects in Nepal. And then in the Maldives, it was unbelievable. Like, the amount of families we helped and everything. But I was doing more
of the same. I was doing social work, I was doing what was burning me out, you know, and it was it was looking back, it's I would never change the experience. But knowing the things that light me up now and then I can do philanthropy on the side. You know, I can do philanthropy without it being my my whole life. But sticking with the thing that you love to do, and that light you up is going to be so important. Lean
into more of what works for you. Oh, that's so good. Well, Nikki, thank you so much for sharing all of this, I feel like this is going to be one of those where somebody's driving along and they're like pulling over the side of the road to make note because I do think that this is one of those things that in this industry just doesn't get talked about enough. So thank you for sharing your experience, but let everybody know where they can find you.
Sure. Everything's under my name. So Nikki Closser. And there are there's a couple like free download resources on my website. If people are interested, a couple free videos, a couple PDFs, personal branding related posing marketing, that sort of thing. On Instagram, Nikki cossar. And if you're interested in real estate investing, that's dream life. investors.com. And, yeah,
amazing. We'll link all of it in the show notes, of course. But we'll have you on again sometime in the near ish future. So that we can chat more.
That would be awesome. Thank you so much. Anyway, appreciate appreciate you having me on. Of course.
Thank you have a great day. Well, that's it for this week's episode of This can't be that hard. I'll be back Same time, same place next week. In the meantime, you can find more information about this episode, along with all the relevant links, notes and downloads at this can't be that hard.com/learn If you liked the podcast, be sure to hit the subscribe button. Even better, share the love by leaving a review in iTunes. And as always,
thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.