202: Cultivating Confidence with Sabrina Gebhardt

and the dogs are being cute. And I'm just kind of strolling along letting this podcast you know, wash over me because the fact of the matter is, I'm good friends with Sabrina, I know a lot of what she has to talk about and offer in the teaching space. So I had a sense that I knew exactly what she was going to talk about in this particular episode. Then all of a sudden, halfway through the episode, she drops this like truth bomb that totally stopped me in my tracks,

literally. And as soon as I got home from the walk, I sent her an email and was like, I need you back on the show. And we are going to talk about confidence. The thing is, when she was talking about the different elements that have had the biggest impact on her business, I figured that she was going to be talking about various systems and mindset shifts and, and maybe pieces of software that have affected her ability to run

a good business. But when she started talking about confidence as its own factor in her success, it just cracked something wide open inside me. I knew that that was true, not just for her. But for me and for just about every successful photographer and small business

owner that I have ever met. The fact of the matter is whether confidence is something that comes naturally to you or not, it is imperative that you channel some amount of confidence in all kinds of areas of running a business it you need to be confident about the way that you show up in your communication, you have to be able to make confident decisions about the money that you spend.

You need to be confident when you show up and actually lead a session or you know, show up to photograph someone's wedding where you are willing to make posing decisions and direct people or even just confidently get yourself into the right position to be there for the shot right confidence is kind of the unsung hero of the small

business world. And today's conversation with Sabrina is all about how that shows up in your business, how you can cultivate it, and whether there are ways that you can be too confident or go too far down that path. And I think you're gonna love this conversation. Welcome to this can't be that hard. My name is Annemie Tonken. And I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they

love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it. And I can show you how. Sabrina Gebhardt Welcome back to this can't be that hard. How are you today?

one of those things. And so I'm really excited to chat with you about it. I said in the intro that I got inspired for this particular topic by listening to your amazing podcast, but you did an episode back in I think it was October called the eight things that have made a big impact. And I'm always curious to like, hear what other people's you know, Oh, is there a particular system are a piece of software and you did like one

little nod to software. But other than that I loved that episode because I felt like it was more wasn't like I don't want to say that. It was like whoo, mindset stuff. But they were kind of broad strategies that anyone has access to. And one that really caught my attention was this topic of confidence. So I'm really

excited to dive in. Yeah, so if anyone hasn't caught either your podcast or met you or come across you elsewhere or heard me interview you before because I think this is the fourth time that I've had you on the show. Yeah, I think so. There have been a few. So for those people, why don't you do a quick introduction and let everybody know who you are.

intention. But all of my teaching has that base to it that base of like really starting with like the hard work and building from there. So I have a podcast, as you mentioned, it's called shoot it straight. And it's still a baby, it's still within its first year, but I'm loving that process. So there you have it.

However, like, let's be real, there is so much mindset involved in all of the things that you have to do, even if that mindset is just, I am committing to myself and my business that I'm going to show up and I'm going to do the work, I'm going to spend the time and like go through the frustrating process of like, I don't know, learning this new piece of software, you know, maybe that's not something that you, you're in your heart of hearts, like you're just itching to do, maybe

that's not your jam, but in order to like take those steps and make that next step, you have to carve out that time. And so that, you know, there is a mindset piece to almost every kind of practical step that you can take. So it's not that I don't recognize that. And I feel Yeah,

happening. And so really, really focusing on like, the heart work, the mindset work, and then building from there, like Okay, so now I've worked on that, what practical steps do I need to take to actually move forward?

right? We can go into a, I don't know, a new process, or a new piece of software or a like raising our prices, we can intellectually go through that exercise and sort of put that into place in our business. But if we don't have the confidence to back it up, like, let's use that raising your prices example, if you run your numbers, and you say, Okay, I need to and then you say, and I want my business, I only want to take on five clients a month or

something like that. So therefore, I have to raise my prices, by 50%, in order to achieve the, you know, make the amount of money that I need and want to make, that's all great

and fine on paper. And then when that first client gets in touch and says, Hi, I'd like to book you, you have to then turn around and sell those new prices, you have to say that with confidence and own that and sort of step up into that space where you are now a photographer who charges you know, 50% more than you did before, which makes

a huge difference. So, let's, let's kind of start with what I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you to reach back in your brain and talk a little bit about the way that you feel like confidence has influenced your own career trajectory and the way that your photography business has run.

in my own business. The first few years I was in business, I was laughably undercharged, I mean, hilariously so. And saying yes to everything, because I didn't have the confidence to say no to anyone who didn't have the confidence to say that, I want to focus on this type of photography, right? So I was doing everything had zero boundaries, which is, again, a people pleasing problem, which is a confidence problem. And it

was just a hot mess. I was very lucky with air quotes that my business took off immediately. And part of that is I live in a big city, it was the season of life, we were in, like all of our friends had little kids, and we're having babies. And so I automatically had all these handpicked clients. So I was never struggling to find people to work with. But I was immediately drowning. I went from zero to drowning, just

almost overnight. And I had zero confidence, you know, maybe I had enough confidence to say, I'm going to be a professional and go into business. And then that's where it stopped. Right? You know. And it was really, really hard. It was really hard that led straight to burnout and questioning everything and wanting to just burn it all down real fast.

difference in the world. Because at that point, I went from being this lonely entrepreneur who was afraid to make friends with local photographers and afraid to you know, I didn't want to step on anybody's toes. I didn't want anybody to judge me, it was all this huge, ugly mind story, right? And which all came from

lack of confidence. And then all of a sudden, when I had this intimate group of women that I've met from a workshop and our our mentor, all of a sudden, I had a cheering squad, and I had people to talk to and to realize like this is normal, and I'm not alone. And I'm doing this really well. And, and all these things that was the game changer.

that's fine. I'm confident in how to use my camera to support me. But um, but like, that doesn't necessarily tell them how to how to run a business, how to set their prices, how to communicate those prices, like all that sort of stuff still requires. You have to set a course and kind of follow that path. And if you're trying to do it all by yourself, chances are even the most confident among us will have some amount of impostor syndrome or like self doubt.

any kind of work. How do you feel like that comes across to people and what do you think it tells people when they get in touch with you and you're just like, Yeah, whatever you want.

hands off. Okay, so I feel like so many new photographers who are really lacking in all of those steps, they're the ones that are dealing with the crazy picky clients who will ask for all these insane things, and who try and direct the session and who try and put themselves in the driver's seat, where and that's a lack of confidence.

That's because the photographer has not taken the reins from the beginning, set these expectations explained, this is what I do, this is how it's gonna go, this is what I cost, this is what you can expect the whole way. Like, you have to have the confidence to take control. That is what shows your clients that you are a professional, you are going to care for them. Well, they can sit back and enjoy the process because you've got this. Yeah,

lot less. And then relatively quickly. I said, Okay, I've got my portfolio, I'm ready to go. And I jumped up into much more sustainable pricing. And it was like night and day, the way that I was being received by my clients. So in some ways, I felt like even just the jump in price. Yep, made them defer to me, trust me more, sort of assume that I knew what I was

doing. Whereas prior to that, and these were actually all of them were lovely clients, like I didn't, they were mostly kind of friends or friends of friends who knew that I was trying to get into wedding photography. So they were all very supportive. But it was it was a very different and I want to call it a power dynamic. But that's not to say like it wasn't. We weren't armwrestling. But it

was. But yeah, and the way it's like a perpetual or like a self fulfilling prophecy, where they assumed that I didn't know what I was doing. So I felt like I didn't know what I was doing. So I didn't do as well. Right. And as soon as that changed, it was like all the other dominoes fell into place.

that's the way it started. And then you're going to be constantly battling these wrong expectations that were set from the beginning, right, yeah, ends up just being like a client you dread working with, you know, and that's unfortunate. That's unfortunate for everybody. But I do agree with you that that price has a big piece is a big piece of that puzzle, which there's confidence to that right to being able to raise your

prices. But I was talking to a student just the other day, who's been having all of these struggles with different clients this year, and all these crazy requests they're making, and she's very talented. She's been in business for several years. And I told her I was like, it's time to raise your prices, you got to get out of whatever price bracket you're in, you know, that is a red flashing light.

client. You know, of course we do come to like some of the people that we work with or you know, feel attached to them in some way shape or form. There is nothing to say that you can't maintain some kind of a relationship with someone absolute if they're not ready to make that switch with you because they they're in your in their minds rather, the value of your work and working with you is stuck in this lower place. It is going to behoove you the

quality of your work. You're like everything about that relationship will be better, if you part ways and kind of coming to that mind space, like being able to accept that I think is a huge piece in building your confidence to raise your prices.

nothing to do with you. You know, and having the confidence to know that like, you are, you're still human, you can still run into them at the grocery store, or at a football game or whatever. And like, there's no hard feelings. This is business. This is absolutely business and it is okay for them to choose to work with somebody else. It is not a knock on you, your work your confidence. It's it's their choice. And their choice has nothing to do with

you. Like you have no control over their choice, you know? Yeah.

Because certainly, in your personal life, there may be instances where making a really fast decision isn't a great thing to do, or just moving forward without, you know confidently without necessarily knowing all the different permutations that that could be a problem. But what about in business? Do you think that there is such thing as overconfidence?

what you do. But the way you treat people, you know, and when you think about, like personal relationships, or business relationships, somebody who's not willing to see the other side of the story, or willing to bend a little if things are hard, you know, like, for example, if you have a really firm reschedule policy, right, that's great. I want you to have a firm reschedule policy and a boundary to protect yourself.

But stuff happens, you know what I mean, and there's definitely times to hear their story and show grace and you know, change and bend or whatever, and so not being so stuck in your ways. But the other part to that, like you said, is making decisions, right? I definitely think you could be too confident and making decisions, there is something to be said about pausing on your idea, making sure that it makes sense for your audience for where you want

to go. One thing I like to talk about is we get so distracted in the world of social media, and like seeing what everybody else is doing. And as creatives, we can really be distracted by like, Oh, that's a really great idea. I should, I should cherry pick that and throw it into my business and see what happens.

And if you are just immediately like, oh, that's absolutely gonna, that's working for Jane over there, that's gonna work for me, I'm gonna like work all night and get it set up and launch it into the world tomorrow. I mean, maybe take a beat, make sure that it really would work for you make sure that you really do want to create this new thing launched this new thing, right? Because sometimes running into things

without having intention. All of a sudden you find yourself busier than you want to be or dealing with people you don't want to deal with. I mean, it sounded good. But you didn't put any, you didn't put any planning in place. You didn't really think about your decision first. So I guess that's, that's my thoughts on two sides. I don't think you can be too confident, personally, as long as you're kind and all of that. But maybe you could be too confident in your decisions.

all excited about an idea. I'll put a date on the calendar, I'll announce it to the world on the podcast, like we're gonna do this thing, right? And then, and then after that, I'm like, Oh, wait that month, I'm, you know, it's my kids birthday and in my bubble, and I all of a sudden, am buried in work. Yeah, and have, in a couple of instances really painted myself into like, a very miserable corner. So when I hired her, I was like, your

job is to be the filter. Yes, I'm gonna bring all these ideas to you. And you're gonna say, great that we're going to do this in 15 months, like, we're going to put this on the calendar for the future when

it's manageable. But when I asked that question, of course, I had my own kind of answer bubbling around in my head, which had to do with, and I've said this before, coming from a medical background, I think one of the best things, for me at the beginning of my business was that I had this, even though I had self doubt, because I was a new business owner. And I was like, Well, you know, I don't

know what I'm doing here. I always told myself, that, unlike when I was working in the hospital, if I make a mistake here, nobody's gonna get hurt. Nobody's gonna bleed out. I can fix it. And there were a couple of situations where like, I screwed up the settings on my camera, or like, I didn't transfer my files, right. And so I went back, and reshot the session, or whatever, I'd like I

need it. Right. Right. And so my instinctive answer to that question was like, no, no, there's really no such thing as being overconfident in your business as long as you're willing to make it right. But you're absolutely right. There is such thing as overconfidence, when it comes to kind of over scheduling yourself or getting yourself into a situation where like, you could start to fail to deliver on the promises that you're making.

doing for you? Sure, that's a great idea on me, but at that actually does not fit into your plan at all. And I don't think we need to do that, you know, not every idea needs to be done and needs to be explored. So yeah,

What are some concrete action steps for someone who can see the value of building up their confidence a little bit, but just doesn't feel like they're there? on their own?

That's part of the process learning and growing, and it's not comfortable all the time. And so part of that is like I said earlier, kind of faking it until you make it right. Like put on your competence hat, give yourself a pep talk before your session before your client call and do the thing. And then the more you do it, the more you'll realize, Oh, I'm not having to fake it anymore. This really is true. I've done this enough times, I know what to expect, and that confidence starts to

come. I do think there is part of the competence talk that just because for me, I've been in business for 12 years does not mean that I don't ever slip back into like the imposter syndrome where my confidence doesn't start to dip for sure insurance. Sometimes it's with my work sometimes it's with education, sometimes it's with whatever story my brain wants to make up right. And in those instances, really pulling back from what I'm consuming, and kind of keeping my eyes on my own paper.

Right. Just you know, it can be really easy to look at what you know the work somebody else is creating be like, Oh, that's so beautiful. Why doesn't mind look like that? That's not a good place to be and that's not a good mental space to be in. If you are not struggling with competence, you can look at that. and appreciate the beauty without talking down to

yourself. But if you are currently in a confidence struggle, and you're looking at it with the oh, she's better than me, he's better than me, I can't do that it's time to back away. Right? Yeah. And then also remembering when you are looking at other artists around you, you cannot compare apples to oranges, right? I cannot look at this creators work over here who's been in business twice as long as me who has done all these different things and expect me to be in the same

place, right? You cannot do that. So again, that is a comparison thing. And it really is not good for anybody, ever. And then the thing that I alluded to earlier is education. That competence really does come with education for so many reasons. For so many reasons.

You have somebody who has been in your shoes, who has gotten to the other side, who is giving you tips and tricks and guidance, but who's also a good coach will also be a cheerleader, and like, help help you out with the mindset piece, you know, talk you off the ledge, so to speak. So I think those are the things that really can help somebody gain confidence.

know what you're doing. But if you are, dear listener, someone who is currently feeling like you're struggling with confidence in what you're offering, and what you're doing, I think it would be smart to seek out education, where you do have what Sabrina's talking about here, where it's like, you have a little bit of actual interface with the person who's teaching because there are plenty of online courses out there, where it's all self guided, and you're kind of going

through on your own, those can be very valuable, for all kinds of different reasons. But if you need the, if you in addition to your skills, and your sort of Arsenal, of of software and systems and all that sort of stuff, if you also need someone to give you some direct, you know, listening to you feedback, all that sort of stuff. Yeah, look for those mentorship type opportunities, and be ready to spend for them, because they are very valuable. And they are typically pretty costly.

was the game changer. I got it served me in all the different ways and to speak to what you said about the specific online courses. Those can definitely serve you if you're like, Oh, I'm super confident in the work I'm creating, but I'm horrible with systems or I need help with price or whatever, then that's where you cherry pick the experience and the course to focus and hone in on the struggle you know you're having.

But if you are struggling across the board, if you're like I don't know about my art, I don't know about my editing, I don't know about my client experience. I don't know about my pricing. I don't know if you're just in that place, right where it all

feels hard. Some sort of in person, whether it's one on one, a workshop, a retreat, an online mentorship, something where you get that that actual human connection with the coach, is what you want, because you need somebody to hear you to see you to speak to your particular unique situation and help you out of it.

Yeah, absolutely. So good. I feel like I could continue to talk to you about this for three more hours. Like there's so much here. But thank you so much for joining me to chat about it. This has been super fun. It's been a while.

So the two, I guess most popular things, I do have a mastermind that is it's a package. It's a container, right. So it's got four months of coaching and then an in person retreat built into it. It is super transformational. It is absolutely incredible. It naturally creates this group of like business besties. And it is absolutely one of the if not the best thing I've ever created. I love it so much. I'm sure that you can have a waitlist dropped into the show notes for that.

Yep. And then I have on the flip side. So that's a huge time commitment. On the flip side, I have a membership. And it is so fun. It lives in a Facebook group. There's currently about 50 Women in there. And I like to say that it's created so that you can consume content without feeling like you're drowning. Okay, like you're not drinking from a firehose, so you get three pieces of content a month, and one of them is almost always a teaching for me. So like you can pop on and ask questions,

and we focus on a topic. And then one of them is almost always a guest teacher. So we're bringing in industry people to talk about things and it is such a rad community of women who just support each other and cheer each other on and it's super duper fun. So it's called the roundtable. Yeah, that

subscribe button. Even better, share the love by leaving a review on iTunes. And as always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.