Okay, I know I always say that I am so excited to introduce today's guest to you. But guys, I am really excited to share today's conversation with you. Hannah Smith is a maternity and family photographer based in Cincinnati, Ohio, and she has been a student of mine for a couple of years. During that time, I have watched her grow what was essentially a brand new business into a thriving machine like she is doing all sorts of amazing things with her business. And she's doing them
all so well. She had posted in one of our groups last fall, that she had officially brought in enough members to cover all of her expenses each month. And what's crazy about Hannah's business is that it is officially part time, she still works a full time job as a mental health therapist. So this is a woman who is a wife, a mother has a full time job, and now has this part time job that is really adding very significant income to her
family. So of course, I was like, Do you mind coming on the show and sharing your story and a little bit of you know, what you think is working. And so that's what she's here to do today. It's just, it's an interview where I am trying to hand over the microphone more than maybe I sometimes do. I know I do a lot of talking on here. But asking her to share her journey and how she has put all of these different puzzle pieces together in a way that has clicked. I know we can all
use a little inspiration. She's giving really good actionable practical advice. And I think that this can be really motivating whether you are at the beginning of your journey, or whether you are looking to decide whether you're willing to stick it out, I think Hannah's story is going to resonate with you. So without further ado, I will cue the music and introduce Hannah. Welcome to this can't be that hard. My name is Annemie Tonken. And I help photographers run profitable, sustainable
businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it. And I can show you how. Hannah, it is wonderful to have you on the show. Welcome to this can't be that hard. How are you today?
I'm good. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
I always find it fun to connect in a more face to face way with people who I've always seen as a still photo, or like maybe little clips of videos on their Instagram it is. It's like it rounds out a person's humanity or something like obviously, I know that you're a human but we have been Instagram friends. And you know you've been a student for a long time, like I've known who you were. And now to actually have a conversation with you is really exciting. So I'm glad you're on the show.
It goes both ways. Because obviously I hear your voice on the podcast all the time and your videos, but like actually face to face interaction feels a little different. It's exciting to actually put a human with.
Yeah, yep, yep, exactly. Well, good. And I am just thrilled to be chatting with you today I feel like you are one of those photographers that I want to put out in the limelight because you are doing so many things so well and things are falling into place for you and as they should be like your work is beautiful your i i ended up going pretty deep on your website over the last couple of days as I was preparing for our conversation. And I just feel like all of your
copy is really lovely. Like it is such a well put together business and you have the results to show for it. So I do a lot of preaching around here and I'm just excited to kind of have you come on and share what's been working for you and what's on your horizon next so so I'm going to just let you kind of dive in and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your backstory as a photographer.
For sure. Well, thanks first of all for all the kind words that means so much from you. So I am a mental health therapist by trade I started in the Child and Family Therapy realm over 10 years ago and have been practicing and then still am I've moved into not quite work now but my background is that mental health trauma focused really like the
holistic person focus. But in 2018 I had a baby and for I know for many photographers that is the catalyst to really wanting to dive into their work so bought a $200 camera on eBay was like I don't want to invest too much on this because it's could be scary, but quickly became apparent that that was gonna be something much bigger and our family and early 2020 started an official business I operated in a shooting burn way for about a
year. Charging maybe $250 a session $300 If I felt spacey right, like, yeah, and then moved on to early 2021, realizing that wasn't the right fit for me. So that's about 18 months ago, started the simple sales blueprint and quickly converted into a profitable business model. In the last 18 months, I've just been wild of enormous growth, but also an
enormous amount of work. I started my membership form late last November, I just went through my second membership cycle here in this about a month ago, and really just feel like I'm at the point where I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I can't believe it. Actually, all the things that if that you talk about and you know, running businesses, marketing, all these things can really pay off when you do them over. So it's been an exciting 18 months really to see that growth, and also planning for 2023.
Wow, that is it's an amazingly fast trajectory. And I you know, one of the things that as an educator, I find tricky is sometimes walking that line between obviously I want to showcase stories that are inspiring, and all that sort of thing. But I also want to keep it real for people. And I will be really honest, you're that speed, we're talking. So you and I are having a conversation in
December of 2022. And you basically are talking about a business that is just coming into its third year, right 2020 coming into its fourth year, and really that you didn't start charging profitable rates until coming up on two years ago, I would love to hear if you are willing what that price jump looked like for you at the beginning of 2021.
It was an emotional time, right? Because I think for many of us, we have ideas about what a solopreneur can charge what you know, my value is money is highly tied into our own psychology, our own bringing right so I had a lot of internal work to do there when I realized that I would be it was about a 300% price job. Yeah. Which is huge, right? And even what that meant for me is how much do I value my own work? How much do I value my own time?
What are my mindsets around money, and that was the main work, I'll be honest, changing the pricing on my website, changing the marketing materials? Yes, it took time. But really what the like, the thing that was the most challenging about it was the internal work of how do I stand behind these prices? And feel confident in them? And how do I stand behind them, even when I don't feel confident in them? Because I do think a big part of it at the beginning was I don't
know if this is right. But I know that charging not what was gonna make enough money wasn't right anymore, right. So I at the beginning had a lot of anxiety, a lot of fear. And there was I had a strong network of support and other photographers and my family that I was able to go to with those things. So I think that was a lot of the work I was able to do. So I was able to almost fake it till you make it to my clients to prospective clients who want it didn't feel that way. On the inside.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you do initial phone calls with your clients?
Oh, you're not gonna like this answer. I do not that is off. But it's really because I'm still a full time mental health clinician. This is a part time as far as time so fitting in calls in the evenings. I'm okay with a lower conversion rate for now, if it's something that I can take some things off my plate.
Yeah, no, I think that that is absolutely fair and asking that question not because I want to hear my own answer. Back to me, I do like to hear again, when someone is getting the results that they want. I want to hear how you're doing it. And and as you know, I mean, I've talked to a few people on the podcast recently who very specifically have chosen to handle that differently. So do you do that entirely over email? Do you make videos,
so I do not make videos, what I do is a personalized, highly personalized design email. So I actually use float as for responding to inquiries without adding them to my email newsletters, and that's something they've opted into. So they are able to it's, you know, almost looks more like a web page, but has their name and their family story that they've told me in their inquiry. And I do think that my conversion rate is lower than it would be if I did videos and things like that.
But that's kind of a calculated choice I've made for this point. Because my calendar has been filled primarily with membership clients. So one thing you said in an earlier podcast that I loved was this idea that when you want to launch membership, you felt like you weren't as anxious going into this inquiry calls because you already had a solid foundation of income every
month. Yeah. And I think that's the point I'm kind of at now is I'm looking to fill fewer spots in my schedule, so I'm okay with more nose, because I have fewer spots, spots to fill.
I love that. Yeah. And the fact of the matter is when you are it's the whole you have to know the rules before you break the rules. I am again 100% in support of someone taking my system and tweaking it to make it work for them assuming that they are substituting something with full knowledge of like, this is why I'm making this choice rather than I'm making this choice based on fear. I think the one thing that I hear from people is I don't want to get on the I'm because I'm, you know, I'm
worried about it. And I think I'm gonna mess it up. If that's the only reason, then I think it's worth visiting that and sort of sitting with that and figuring out like, well, how can you potentially move past that so that you can reap the benefits of that phone call. But if the phone call isn't working because of your schedule, or if the phone call isn't working, because you are actually not trying to book that many clients, you only have a few spots, then great, like, do what
works well for you. So no, I appreciate your candor there for sure.
Yeah, I really love it. Because I do think it really comes back to what I said earlier about the challenges with pricing, right, the internal work. So if it's, if it's the internal work with a phone call, right, like that's, I will say, if I were to make a leap to full time in the next two years, the phone call would be immediately edited about workflow, because the spots I would have would double and I would really need to rely on that income in a new way.
Right? Right. And just, this is sort of out of the line of questioning, but just out of curiosity is going full time with photography, something that you are aiming for, or do you like that combination of you're gonna put air quotes around real job, and your photography,
now there's no plan to go full time I've really I get a lot of fulfillment out of my career, I spent a lot of time developing it, not to say that I would not get fulfillment out of photography. However, it's just really not the right fit for my family right now to go full time when they met. That means for me, though, is realistic boundaries around what I can and cannot do. Which is why I've made some decisions for
2023 to outsource. I've brought on a virtual assistant and hired a bookkeeper before I kind of operate it also in a limited mindset, I think for myself up, why spend money, why I can do
these things myself. And I think that just, you know, things that I've learned about money and things that I've learned about scarcity, and really looking at it and saying, Well, it's not just about saving money or keeping money, it's about creating boundaries, it's about creating a lifestyle that works for myself and for my family. And for me, that means having less things on my plate.
Yeah, for sure. That is my as I am moving into this next year, that's a big thing. For me, I don't necessarily have big growth goals, I have big shifts in the boundaries, goals. And in many ways, I would rather you know, it's like making time to, or rather making money in order to make time. And that's a it's a
tricky balance. I always think about learning to ride a bike, and I feel like businesses, especially at the beginning, it's always that matter of like you overcompensate to one side or the other, and you have to find that balance, and it takes time. And that doesn't mean that five years, 10 years down the road, you won't find yourself like you know, falling over a
little bit. But just knowing that it's okay to kind of wobble a little bit until you find your, your good balance is, is kind of part of the long mindset, long game mindset.
I really liked that. I think, for myself, I've made a lot of changes, and some of them have gone back to the way I used to do things or cheating, you know, and just really use a kind of going back and forth to find that right balance for me, you know, trying something new, you're not gonna know if it's the right or wrong decision until you've tried it. So not being afraid to leap into that new space. Yeah,
totally. So you started out with simple sales, and then you added the membership, it sounds like a little bit less than a year later.
Yeah, so I had done simple sales starting in like February of 2021. I did with that, I will say I launched a lower simple sales package option for returning clients and sort of a hope to take along in 2020, I think I had photograph 66 or something like that. Which was good, right, except for the fact that they had paid rates that were not sustainable. So my hope was to take along four to five of them. And that's about
where I ended up. So out of that large pool, I ended up taking on a very small number, but I offered them a lower price of thank you so much for your support, come along with me on this new journey. And my goal was to get them to that membership finish line in November, where they would always be locked into that lower rate, if I could get them to see the new value, I knew that we could get to that new line. And that's really where it ended up. I had a handful come along with
me there. And the rest it was sort of a blessing release, like I'm happy that they're doing well. And I would say still stay in contact, but they just weren't the right fit for my new business model.
I would love to hear you talk a little bit more about that. Because I think that that's a big pain point for a lot of people is that blessing really is like letting clients that you enjoyed working with
that were great, whatever. And even if I say this all the time, and it's been a while since I talked specifically about price anchoring but even if a client may have hired you for the first time at let's say, you know $1,000 If they hire you for the first time at $200 it becomes much much much more difficult to get them to make that leap for
most people. I mean, again, every once in a while you'll have a client who's like yep, I'm with you, no matter what you're like my ride and ride or die photographer but the money already have people are gonna say, oh, no, it's in my head, this is what this is worth. And so now that you've moved up, you're gonna say goodbye. So that's really hard for a lot of people. How did you get past that and go ahead and make that decision,
the main thing was I, my daughter was getting older, you know, I realized I'm like, I don't want to spend all this time away from my family, if it's not financially worth it, I was doing a lot of things at that time that I would not recommend, like, my money was still going through my personal bank account. So I felt like I didn't have a great idea of what I was actually making compared to spending, I just was seeing all these direct deposits, and
it felt great. But when I really took a step back, and I thought, wow, that's all I've come out on the other side of this with, it really wasn't to be honest, it wasn't a choice anymore, there was no choice. Once I had the numbers in front of me between keep, I couldn't stay at my same rates, or even raise them halfway, because I knew it wasn't going to get me where I wanted to go. I knew it wasn't
gonna get me the end result. So I really had a lot of that time spent in study mates with patients love really realizing what you said, if someone's value for me was lower. And I will say it's not even often I think the value for you personally, as a photographer, is the value for photography,
right? There are clients that I expected that you'd be the one that would come along with me because I thought I had a good idea, their socioeconomic status, that they were not the ones because it really wasn't about the amount of money they could spend, it was about the value they had on photography, you're not going to change that I talk about something similar actually, in some education that I do, where I compared to how much I'm willing to spend on
getting my hair done. I'm not someone who values that too much, I'm not gonna be the person that's ever gonna spend $400, once a month to get my hair dyed and color, I spend that much money on something else on other things, right that I do value that are, you know, expenditures, I'm choosing to me, but that's just not evaluate place, it doesn't matter how much money I ever make, I'm just never going to be the person that if they walk into your hair be so much healthier, it'll be
so much, okay, I still want my $70 haircut. And even that I'm like, every, you know, however much like, that's just not who I'm going to be. And so I really recognize that if I have time around certain choices, that's how other people are gonna be around photography, and I can't change them. I can't change their money mindset. That's like way too much work for me. So I just really kind of say I'm looking for the people that aren't devalue what I do. Offer.
And you know, what's interesting, I love that. First of all, I love that your example is something that
everyone can relate to. Because I think a lot of times we talk about like, oh, you know, it's like a like a Prada purse or you know, something, and we're talking about something that is a huge price tag that a lot of people are like, Oh, I would never but hair is a great example of something that a lot of people who don't necessarily have tons of you know, they're not like dripping in diamonds will still go out and spend a lot of money on things like
their personal appearance. So. So that is it's a perfect example. But I also think that it's an interesting thing to
think about that. It may be, I think, especially for those of us who photograph newborns and young families, yeah, and I would extend this to wedding photographers as well, we actually do have some influence on the value that people set, because if someone is shopping for a photographer for the first time, and they have no idea what to expect in terms of what they're going to pay for photography that looks good to them, when they find that person, and that person, it
whose work they like. And that person charges them a certain amount of money, whether that's $100 $1,000 $3,000, that is going to be the baseline that they sort of start to work with, like, well, good photography
cost this amount. So then when something is way off from that, if their price point is $1,000, let's say and then they talk to some other photographer, who just casually mentions that they charge 250 $250, immediately, somewhere in the back of that person's brain, they're gonna be like, well, they're probably not very good. And it's, you know, that's it's a really interesting piece of the psychology of pricing. So we do, in some ways have some influence. And then
the reverse is true as well. If someone is used to paying, let's say, $700. And you come and you say, well, it's $1,100, and they look at your work, and they really like it, it's only going to serve to validate the fact that like, you're really good at what you do, maybe you have more experience or whatever. So sometimes people are willing to make that stretch, specifically because of that anchor. It's just like, I don't know, I'm going off on a huge tangent.
I didn't mean, we agree. And I want to say even for clients that don't book you that that can also be something that's psychologically happening, right. I'm okay being an aspirational brand, right? Like I'm okay with someone not booking me, but they've fallen in love with my work. And they tell me that in an inquiry they're like, I love what you have to say about photography of these things. I just can't afford you. Yeah, I make those kinds of decisions all the time.
Right. I prefer certain rugged brand of leggings over the other. Yeah, I buy sometimes the less expensive leggings, but I don't think well these are just as good as the ones I love. I think I'm willing to settle for right now with the goal of how Hopefully getting what I want in the future. Yeah, and I have that a lot. I will be honest, I have a lot of clients who have stuck with me over the last 18 months watched all my Instagram stories, they open all my email newsletters, and then they book
after 12 months. Yeah, let's you know, they book quite a while later I they even gave me nose earlier. But it wasn't a no forever. It was a maybe a spouse isn't on board. It wasn't it was a, maybe we don't have the funds right now. Or even just we need
to build more trust, right? Like showing up in Instagram Stories, writing email, newsletters, my email newsletters are very personal, they really talk a lot about my mental health work, they talk a lot about my own internal work as a mother and around body image all these things, right. It's a place for me to really get vulnerable and really build relationships in a way that feels very authentic to
me. And I think that that, you know, the more important that I think the more that people feel willing to pour it back into me. And so I've seen a lot of those relationships built over time. And some of them will never turn into clients, but they're still relationships that I value having people that I value getting to know.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely. And it sounds like you are doing that exactly right, that nurture. And the longer you're in business, the more of those people you will have come back to you and say, I have been following you for or you may not remember me, I reached out three years ago. Now I'm ready to make that leap. It is just, it takes a while. And because what we do is so first of all, again, there are prices
all over the place. But also, it's something that requires a lot of trust over at which most people take time to develop.
Definitely, yeah, I will say I feel like if I've had one mantra in my business, one thing that I say over and over to myself, even when things feel harder I get rejected are all the things that feel really hard as humans like, like bringing up shame and you know, all those things. The day you plant the seed is not the day you eat the fruit. And I say that to myself over and over and over again. I have a marketing event that two people show up to oh my gosh, you know how
embarrassing that feels? Yeah. And how you know, I get an inquiry that I think is that's a bluebird pipeline. That's someone I definitely want to work with. And it's a no or a client that I thought for sure would come back to me, I see an Instagram post, and they have used another photographer, oh my gosh, it hurts like it does, because of course, like I build these relationships that matter.
And that's what so many of us are really good at right, we're really naturally good at being empathetic and caring about the people that's up in front of our lens. And it can just feel really hard in that moment. But really realizing this is not this is not about the today, it's about what I want in six months what I want in six years. And that takes some patience, which is not my strong suit. But that's why I say over and over to myself to remind myself,
that's what I'm doing. That's why I'm doing this work and putting money and time into marketing into advertising into building relationships.
Oh my goodness, that right there folks is the pot of gold. That was amazing. And I'm gonna see if I can make that mantra into our title. It's a it's a little long for the title, but it is so good. I'm gonna, I'm gonna write that on a sticky note and put it by my monitor for sure. So let's go back to your story. When you started your membership, and you said November of 2021. Yeah, tell me a little bit about that first launch. And then And then where you are today post your second launch.
Yeah, so my first launch in November, I really was very anxious. I had had a better year than I anticipated. But I still knew that asking clients to invest a significant amount of money and committing to me annually is a big ask for a fairly new business in the sense that I'd also just launched my new prices less than eight months before, right? My goal for that year was 10 Members, I came a little short of that, which was hard at the moment, it felt like I didn't quite meet my
goal. I didn't quite get where I want on it. But I felt like I had a really solid group of members people that I really enjoy working with. These are people that I feel really like, honor they've chosen me. I will say also for some people, I feel like it's you know, a big investment of their money. And in that feels like such an honor to be chosen in that way. And so there was also a lot of
rejection. But there was a lot of kind rejection, which looking back in the moment that's it didn't necessarily feel great. But if I look back and I think well, that's a testament to that, it's still okay, because we still have a relationship. There are a lot of responses that I'm so appreciative. It's not right for us right now. But we can't wait to book you again in the future. So I still count those as wins, maybe not financial ones for now, but
relationship wins. And so I went into the year with a solid group of members and I really focused on client experience this year. I was also very intentional and talking about my membership throughout the year. I did not just wait till November again, every client after their session received a hey what comes next email and it was about viewing their slideshow picking their selection and also, let's take a little sneak peek into
membership. See what that would be like if it would be a good fit for us moving forward and membership will open in November but just keep an eye on it. And so when it came time for membership this year, my member my goal was higher. It was 20 new members and I did come shy again. I came up to 19 this year Oh, but I'm not complaining, I will say one thing that I really was happy about as well was most of my clients only two this year
selected the base here. So financially, if I, if I'm just stuck on the 20, right, then I didn't meet my goal. But if 20 clients, I pick the base here, I wouldn't have met the same finance. Really kind of trying to practice some flexibility
there. This was a huge win. And I'm also just extremely excited about the group I have, like, I truly feel that we've formed a relationship, I love their families, there's, you know, I really was intentional about who was coming into that membership this year that it's, I'm okay, making a long term commitment with you. Because I really do want to be involved with your family capture these milestones. And I'm really grateful that I get to be with these families going into 2023.
That's excellent. And without getting into the numbers piece, I feel like well, let me ask you this number 20. Members, for someone who works a full time job, outside of photography is pretty impressive. I think my membership right now is somewhere around 40. Members. And that's my, you know, I photography as my as my full time business, the so how does that stack up against the number of sessions per year that you aim for? Well, and I
will say most of those clients have two sessions a year. So that is a pretty full schedule. For me, I will say that they're probably going to account for 60 to 70% of my final schedule for next year act. But that means that 60 to 70% of my financial goals already met, which is amazing.
For me, I feel so nice to not be stressed about booking those new clients having to really be on those inquiries, they kind of come in and I can let them take their time or you know, yeah, so yeah, I'm really I'm really happy with. And I one thing I think is about last year had gone by how I was feeling in the moment, I don't think I would have kept if I had just said okay, well, this didn't go well.
It's not working, I think I would have if I would have given up like what I would have missed out on because it ended up being exactly what I want it to be, which is the main main source of income and also, this really fulfilling aspect of my of my business.
Yeah. And to bring it back to what you were saying before about when you get an inquiry and the how much pressure it takes off of those inquiries. If you were getting on the phone with those people, I think that that is an amazing, like secret benefit. Because it's the saint, you know, it's the same thing as selling anything else like when you're desperate, that comes across.
And when you feel like if I don't get if I don't book this inquiry, I'm not going to make my you know, mortgage this month, or I'm not going to make my financial goal this month, or whatever the case may be. When you're I don't know, your mortgage is covered every month, month after month, it takes a lot of pressure off of you know, this one particular inquiry.
It does. And it also allows you to build a business that's more fulfilling for you because you don't have to book the clients who don't want to work with you don't have to book the clients that you did not get a good feeling from on the phone call or the first email, you don't have to worry about that. So that is one thing that's been nice is that I've been able to say no more well, even if it's just no and hey, can you do this thing? No, I
don't offer that. No, I can refer you to someone else who I have a good relationship with, or simply, you know, just this isn't the right fit. But I just feel way more empowered to do that. Yeah. Which I also think as a female entrepreneur is like what what a cool place to be in building that, you know, that that sense of ownership in this business?
Yeah, that's so good. I, I have in my little notes here to you know, tell me how your, your background as a, as a mental health professional or as a therapist feeds into your business. But I feel like the answer to that is has been like laced throughout everything that you've said, I feel like I could use you in you know, on sitting on my shoulder every once in a while to like the
things that you're saying. And I know that it's always one of those things where sometimes it's easier to say it or talk about it when it's in the in the past. We all have those misgivings. And we have to do that mental work, even if we're, we can talk a big game like we are all there from time to time, but you state it so beautifully. And obviously you're also walking that walk like everything that you have done
has been intentional. And it's funny how your willingness to take the long view has resulted in really fast. I mean, again, I know that two years or three years or four years doesn't feel fast in the moment, but in the trajectory of building a successful sustainable business that is fast, especially in an extremely competitive field. So you're you're getting the results that are kind of the promise of doing that. taking those steps
well thank you so much for saying that. And one thing I just want to highlight is that even saying these things have I value the long game does not negate the the fear and the anxiety that I felt in the moment for all these things. So I think often when you hear you know I listen to these podcasts for the last several years, and I hear success stories. And I'm like, Oh, that's great for them.
But that's separate than me recognizing that every, like I said, I had a marketing event last summer that two people showed up to us, I felt so embarrassed for them. And I laughed and was like, I cannot believe just I didn't even care about the money. I was like, I'm just embarrassed, like, the inquiries that haven't turned out that you know, all those things, those hurt, and they feel like a struggle. And I've thought many times about just is
this time to give up? Is it time to not so recognizing, if you're feeling those feelings, that it's okay to recognize them and feel them and just be like, This is why I'm good as a photographer, it's because I feel things, you know, for my clients, I have a relationship, it's because I value my business so much. And that's what's gonna make me succeed. But right now, it just really sucks. And that's really, because there's been so many times that it just really is hard in the moment, but I'm
glad that I've gotten here. And I can't wait to see where I go in the future. Because now I'm like, Okay, once you get a little bit of that energy, like, Okay, this is going well, you start to realize, okay, where could I go next, then?
Yeah, well, so tell me a little bit about where you're going next. What is you You teased earlier that outsourcing is a big part of your plan for the coming year? Yeah. Where do you see your business next December. A few
things that I'm really excited about. One is outsourcing. I am really taking off my plate, the things that I either don't want to do, or they just take up a lot of my time, emails, deliveries, you know, even I had all these membership gifts, it filled my living room last weekend, and I loaded them into a friend's car and pay that person to drive around and deliver them because they were like, This is a great way to spend my Saturday and I was like, I would rather not do
that. Yeah. So things like that, like getting that time back is a big plan for me for next year. The other thing is that I'm also breaking into a new area of photography, which is you know, filmmaking. And that's one of my big goals because I have the
time to do it. Now I have a stable income from my membership that I can say this, these winter months can really be a building season, really focus on portfolio building, learning new skills, and really focusing on that which is an area that artistically, I think is going to be very fulfilling for me, and also an area of growth and
profitability. I also launched a course with click photo school this summer forever clients, your guide to client experience, and I'm hopeful to continue to develop in the education world in the mentorship. I really enjoy talking to other photographers. I love to cheerlead and to coach and to just really talk about, hey, it's not just about the money or about the marketing, it's about what internally is going on. Why was your response when that
happened? And why do you think it means you can't keep going? Because that's so much of the work we have to do.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, and your history really lends itself to making you a perfect candidate to being a mentor and a coach and an instructor. Because you do have that sort of insight into what ultimately is at least 50% of being an entrepreneur, which is the mindset piece.
That means so much coming from the best.
Oh, stop, no, do go. Oh, that's very, very kind coming from you. I really appreciate it. Well, that's wonderful. And I know that you do have some one on one availability for coaching now, so tell everybody where they can find you and find out more about that.
Yeah, so you can find me on my website little bug photos.com or on Instagram little bug photos Cincy CI N Cy for Switzerland.
I was gonna say we didn't even say that you're based in Cincinnati. But that is why yes, based
in Cincinnati, Ohio. And so I'm pretty active on social media sometimes to active but I love to get to know other photographers chat and get to know you better.
Excellent. And I am so excited to finally get to know you in this more one on one way. This has been such a lovely conversation and, and you've shared so much great value here. So I will look forward to the next time. But in the meantime, I hope you have a wonderful day. Thanks so much,
so much. I love you. Thanks for having me.
Well, that's it for this week's episode of This can't be that hard. I'll be back Same time, same place next week. In the meantime, you can find more information about this episode, along with all the relevant links, notes and downloads at this can't be that hard.com/learn If you liked the podcast, be sure to hit the subscribe button. Even better, share the love by leaving a review on iTunes. And as always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.