So ready for another week of thinking out loud, this one we're so excited for you to hear. Today we're going to talk to one of my old friends, Billy Man. I've known him for years. He was a record executive who I knew since the nineties, and he's helped shape the careers of several huge names of music like Pink Backstreet Boys and Kelly Rowland and a lot more. Hear how he got his start busking in San Francisco, from nothing to everything, and find out what he's up to
now with his podcast, which is great. It's called Yeah I fucked that up. Here we go. Billy Mann and I have known each other for how many years?
Twenty years?
Yeah, a long time. Billy's got a great history. This guy, great musician. God lived in his car in Los Angeles and London. You lived in your car for a while. But did you wanted if.
I didn't go to London from Los Angeles?
Well, I know, but a car. You found a different car. But you were living in your car, a struggling musician out there on streets playing for money. And it's just a great story from doing that to tell what you've known.
I think it was I don't think much has changed, except I'm no longer living in a car. I mean, I was like writing songs and singing and trying to move my music from one place to the next. And I the best story I can tell about the music business has nothing to do with the music business. But during the period where I was, I wasn't homeless, so
I was sort of CouchSurfing slash in my car. I was really broke and I had to earn enough money to pay for the room I was renting, and I went to Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco and I played songs and I made like sixteen bucks in one day, which is not a lot of money. And I thought, can I curse on this? Oh yeah, oh yeah, And
I thought I'm totally fucked. And then the next day I was up very early and there was a couple walking down Fisherman's Wharf and they looked very like happy and in love and who's awake that early in the morning and on a weekend, but a newlywed couple, which they were. And I started playing right away because I needed to make money, and they were nice, and they had no place to go, and there were no people around, and then we started talking and they said, we just
got married and we're here on our honeymoon. And I said to them, you know, I'm trying to make enough money to move my music forward. What if you tell me how you met and I'll write a song about it in five minutes or less for twenty bucks. And if you don't like it, no, not twenty bucks for five bucks. And if you don't like it, you don't have to tell me. I just like ruined the story, but I said, you don't have to pay me anything.
So they told me how they met, and I wrote down all these words and it was like everything that could rhyme. It would be like, you know, plain, spain, rain or whatever, and I'd write these notes and then I like made it up real fast, and the guy gave me twenty bucks, and then there was another couple walking after them, and I was like, so, how'd you guys meet? And then I made like four hundred dollars over the next day and I kind of saved myself.
And to me, that's kind of the story of being a working songwriter or an artist, which is you're trying to write songs that mean something to other people and hopefully you can feed yourself in the process. So I've been scaling ever since I was in San Francisco.
I know, But what a great way to realize writing music has extreme value.
Well, I also thought to myself, not only that is that it can have value, but I thought I'll figure it out, because up until that point, I was just hand to mouth and just worrying about just surviving. And then all of a sudden, I thought, you know, this method that I'm using, I could probably do better.
But since then, I mean, we must fast forward. Billy has had many, many different positions at many many different record labels, management companies, as his own management company, and also has written songs, which is more fun to talk about for many great artists, including Pink. You've worked with
other artists like Backstreet Boy, Seleine Deon, Jessica Simpson. I mean, you've worked with everyone in the business, anybody these huge, high paying executive positions that are kind of boring to talk about, but exciting if you're in the music business.
Well funny if you're in the music business, because when you're a songwriter and you're the working musician, and all of a sudden, you become the president of a big company. It's sort of like the dishwasher at the restaurant now owns the restaurant, and there's like a real that's not It wasn't an easy glide path into that role amongst the people working at the restaurant who see you one way and then suddenly have to experience you another. But
it was a great experience. I love doing it knowing what I know of you.
Writing songs for people is much more fun than being an executive at a at a company.
I think they're both problem solving in a way.
I mean writing a song problem solving.
Well. I think for somebody who's creative, it's it's therapeutic, right, So sometimes it's problem solving and that you feel something and then you articulate it and you feel better. And also, if you're working with other artists, you're trying to help them articulate feelings that they feel, and in that respect it's problem solving or an attempt at building a bridge for them so that they can actualize what they're feeling
and use it as part of their identity. But in a larger job, problem solving is you know, sometimes it's conflicts with managers and artists, and sometimes it's internal conflicts. I think the part that I didn't enjoy the most was that it kept me farther away from the creative process. And so after I got off, after I got offered to sit in this role, I tried very hard to believe that I would still be close to the music.
And the part that was the toughest was that, you know, you wind up holding a desk more than you hold a guitar, and that was tough.
One of the reasons we had to have you on the podcast building is because we want to talk about your podcast, which is called Yeah I fucked that up, and that's coming up in a minute. That's called a tease. But I want to get back to songwriting. Songwriting for you comes easy, easily, right, Yeah? Can anyone write a song? I mean, what does it take to write a song?
I mean, well with shat GPT yes.
Well no, okay, without that. If I wasn't down and just pen a song, is it easy? I mean, how does your mind work? I'm sure songwriters do it different ways.
Everybody does it differently. I don't. I would like to say that it's the thing about music, the music and sports are the two things that are available to everybody. Even if you're not playing it, you're a part of it. And I think songwriting, I think what's hard isn't writing songs. I think what's hard is how do you say something in a way that has never been said the same way before? How do you how do you see a
thought through? But I actually feel like I could sit down with you and we could write a song together and it could be great. And I think what's so exciting about the music business is the only thing that separates me from somebody who's really clever and has some talent and motivation and them being the next Grammy winning
hit maker is three minutes of what they create. And in the world we're living in, there's so much access that it's it's it's in many respects because of the volume of artists, it's it's not as and in other ways it's actually more democratic and there's more opportunity for everybody. So now it's a volume game. So the answer is,
I think anybody can write a song. The question is can they write a song that's going to hit people deep enough that they want to hear more of it and hear it over and over again.
You don't know it fast is part of it. You know what fascinates me about songwriters. I could meet a songwriter not know what they've written, and to me they may come off across as come across as like a very shy, shallow, introvert, whatever. But you read their lyrics and then the most beautifully constructed lyrics and phrases and thoughts things that make you cry. You just like a
work of art on the wall. You could actually listen to the lyrics of a song and just start to cry because it comes from this place that you just don't see on the outside of these human beings. From the inside is where you get it. It's a great lesson in understanding. Got to you can't judge a book by its cover, right, Like, there is one songwriter I love, Diane Warren. Now you know Diane, well, we all know
Dian Warren. She lives on the West Coast, and she writes some of those incredibly thought out, beautifully constructed songs about love and breakup. But when you meet her' she curses like a sailor. I mean, she loves to assault people in a fun way. Her lyrics in her songs don't match the person you meet at the table, so I don't know which is which. Which of those people is Dian Warren the person who curses like a sailor or also can construct a beautiful love ballad that makes you cry.
Well, but isn't it this is you're I mean, you're unusual because you're a very public persona, but you have, like I think, everybody has a three tiered life. They have their public life, their private life, and their secret life. And I think for creators, we behind the scenes type of creators, it's to peek our heads out into the
public life with our creativity. It's like nice to be a songwriter because you're not out doing the promotion and you're not necessarily on the front lines of all the feedback. And I think, first, I know Diane a little bit, and she's brilliant. I mean, she's an absolute genius. But her disconnect I actually this is my analysis, So forgive me Diane for my analysis. But I actually think her secret life is what fuels all of her creativity. I think what makes her so special is the secret layer
of her comes out in the songs she writes. And actually that private life, which is the few people that get to meet her as Diane Warren the songwriter is actually her public life. I think there's something magical about every songwriter or a musician that I meet, but I think with her in particular, I think the secret sauce for her is that secret place that she pulls it from. She's an unusual example. But is she Yeah, she is.
She's very special. There's only I mean, I'm a huge fan, and every time we've hung out or spoken, she's just like she's as ambitious and excited and curious about the next song. And she's an absolute sales.
Machine without doubt. Just you know Diane Warren. And I want you, by the way, to do a search on Diane Warren so you can you can see the list of hits. I mean, she is nothing but hits, millions of them.
Don't want to miss a thing. Errol Smith, I'll never get over you getting over me.
That's there's a ton of them. I'm just and Michael Bolton's and all sorts of things.
She's she's goat.
Status and you know what, she has a secret vault at home and maybe it's a computer where she has songs ready to go and she can actually she can actually auction them off and to the highest bidder, and she makes She just walked to the mailbox every day and the checks just come in and she does.
But you know, the question that you always ask about, or rather the question that I tend to ask, is are people happy? You know? And I think, you know, when I look at any of the people that are successful at the level that Diana is successful, and I would I can't help but look at it and think. You can't see the kind of car you're driving necessarily while you're driving it. I mean, you can see maybe
a little logo on the steering wheel. But I just think that what I've found amazing is working with the people that have that sense of self awareness and the success and it's not all about the music industry, but that music is somehow a vehicle for other parts of their lives that they want to develop, and I think that this is a hard business for them.
Let's talk about the podcast, because I find this fascinating because as creative as Billy Man has been in the music business, not only writing the music and performing it, but also managing others who do the music and all so figuring out how to distribute it for profitability for companies. He also has a great take on life. As you can hear already, you have a very unique way of phrasing and couching things to make it interesting. You have found people in your life in business who actually have
great stories. The journey that they that they made to get from point A to where they are now has a couple of potholes on the road. Right. So the podcast is called Yeah, I fucked that up, So I know what it's about, but I want to hear in your words, what is this podcast about and what can we all learn from it?
I mean, so I have four kids. One of my kids in particular, was having a very difficult time getting stuck on not getting good grade on something at school, and it was it sounds weird, but I think a lot of parents can relate to this. You know, if you have a kid who's an athlete, or kid who's really passionate about one one or another things that when
it doesn't go their way, it can be hard. And I was trying to explain that everybody fails if you're successful at anything, and his response was that's not true. You don't fail. And then I sort of I looked at Jen and my wife and it was like a toilet paper roll, a list of all the things that I have fucked up. But I really tried to explain
to him that it's a fact. Like Abraham Lincoln lost I think almost every election before he won being president, and then he changed the world, not enough, but certainly more than anybody else. And I think that anybody that I know that's successful, they actually they get better from the moments that they fall down. But people don't talk about that. Elvis, they don't talk. Nobody goes to a cocktail party and they're like, man, I really fucked this
up today. It's just not how we're wired. Nobody goes on social media and posts look at me, I look like shit. I had a terrible day. I tripped, I made a huge mistake at work. It's just not we And we've come to this place where we have this curated highlight real life that everybody's living. And at the same time there's real problems, especially with younger people, and anxiety and being judged and judging other people. So the idea of this podcast is, really, can I get successful
people to volunteer? They're not selling a record or a book, or just to actually talk about times that they fucked up and what they got out of it and how it either made them better or more self aware. And each conversation has been different, but I have learned so much. Most of all, I've learned that there is a thread, a through line among all of the guests that I've spoken to. And I never I didn't think that I would ever do a podcast. I think podcast is like
everybody's doing a podcast. But it has been surprisingly enriching for me and it's going well, which is a shock to me also. But I think it's another being at the fisherman's wharf, like let me try a thing and see if it's worth anything. But it's been worth the most for me to see guess real talk about what they've been through and in a way that they haven't done. It's funny you mentioned Michael Bolton in the context of Diane Warren and I interviewed him. It was really intense.
People don't know Michael Bolton. You think of Michael Bolton, I mean, he's this iconic figure and there's an era of his life where he was literally in the bleeding edge of the zeitgeist and then he was like fell out of it and he went from being the sexiest man a live magazine cover guy to like kind of what happened to him, or people would say comments about his hair, But Michael was raising three daughters on food stamps into his thirties before he had his first hit.
But him talking of about that and how he looks at his success and how he is I don't say failed, but I think what he wishes that he did better has nothing to do with money or fame or music or celebrity. And I found this with each of the people that I've spoken to. It's that it's like it's that it's that personal ability to self reflect that can get lost in the ambition that you have in a career, whether it's in music or film or acting.
What we learn here and we hear it from everyone, every everyone in industry that's succeeding anyway, will tell you if you're not willing to take a chance and fail, you're never going to succeed. Succeed. The problem is is in failure, it's embarrassing, it's heartbreaking, so it makes you tend to not want to try. Therefore you just sort
of swim with the other salmon. Right, but when you really, when you're willing to get out there and take a chance, even if you're taking a chance with your entire fortune or lack of fortune and the few daughters you have in the bank. If you don't take those chances, you'll never move forward. You have to fail in order to succeed, right, And I agree.
I guess the question is, is anybody talking about.
That, Well, you are in this podcast, that's why you're here. Hello.
No, But I guess I think more. We have to be a lot more forgiving of other people, right, and we idolize people. And the assumption is because of the social media life for living, is that they don't that they don't have their setbacks, or if they exist, they're staged. It's like, one of the reasons I love Pink, even though Alicia is like my friend for a long time, is that off the stage, she is exactly who she is,
and she is transparent to a fault. Sometimes I'm like, Okay, I don't know if you need to go that far, but she feels compelled. And then there are other artists where they're living a whole life that everybody seems to see and behind the scenes is it's completely different, right. I don't know how people get past that.
Well, your question a second ago, Bildy was well, how do we get people to understand, truly understand the concept of you have to fail before you succeed. Maybe one of the problems is all the people saying you have to fail before you succeed are successful. You're rare to hear someone who's on the down and out it's going you know, you gotta fuck up before you succeed, because they're still fucking up. They're not succeeding yet, right.
But some of people who are successful in a higher altitude with hopefully they're like a little beacon in the you know, in the clouds to say, well again, to your point, I don't think they broadcast I did this wrong. I this business failed. No one cared about my song. I thought this was a hit. It was barely a B side. That's like, it's not out there. But I do think that at least, let me put you this way. Every time I spoke to somebody and you, this is
your profession, not mine. But when we got real into it, when it was over, they all thanked me. This felt really good, really and it's.
Like because these things were all facts that they had already.
It's like you talking to someone about really deep stuff that you don't think that they're going to go there.
But they had to talk about it to get it out.
But or you know, when I interviewed Kelly Rowland, she was like, no one has ever even asked me this question.
And we got into the fact that she grew up and her mom was a nanny, and she was not just living with Beyonce in her family, but she was with her mom who was a caregiver for a family, and how she felt like her mom treated those kids nicer than she treated her, or she was around people who were affluent enough, and that she thought to herself, one day, I want to have this life right, and then all of the challenges that she's facing her career, I just didn't think I By the way, every conversation,
I'm sure the same is with you in interviews, it's like you kind of go in you don't really know what you're going to get until you get there. And in this case, it's like it's very like, okay, everybody take off their clothes and let's be open. And it
was I learned so much doing it. What's interesting about it is the reason I like talking to celebrities about it is because celebrities are we hold them up really high, and when they're there, they don't want to lose that because if I talk about how I fuck things up, then I'll be judged. I could lose that, So I don't want to talk about that. I'm just going to post all my super awesome parties that I'm going to
and everything's cool. But I think ironically, the figures, the public figures that last the longest are the ones that address their moments of self doubt. That they're the most transparent and not in a script. And that was the other part. It is, like I said to when I talked to Michael Bolton, just because I know him, I'm like, don't give me any fucking stock answers, like we're going to move past that. And if you go down that path and I know that story, you're going to pull
out about whatever that is. I want to move past it. And we got right into it. I think my goal is that for my son who was getting stuck, or for other people that feel like they're afraid to take risks. It's if you don't do it one. You know, it's like you're not going to score a goal if you
don't take a shot. But the other piece is most of the people I've spoken to, in fact, all of them, find that the places where they have fucked up, they've made mistakes is actually the fertile ground for them to be greater. And they have discovered something else that has went unpacked has given them extra power and whatever area that they wind up succeeding in. And that's I don't
know if that will come across in every podcast. I think every I think they're all entertaining, but I think when it does come across, it's it's super it's super emotional. And next week and I don't know when this will air, but I did one with Shelley Wright. Do you know Shelley Wright. Shelley Wright is a country singer songwriter who grew up in Kansas, Kansas farm country.
We talked about her go Ahead and she.
Was dating Brad Paisley and they were like a country couple, and she had the number one song and this is
in the late nineties. It's single white female, super talented, beautiful people, magazines, Most Beautiful People, and she won the ACM Award for Best Female Solo Artist, and she stood up there and the whole time while she's with Brad Paisley, and she's this big you know, America sweetheart, she's a lesbian living in the closet and she's living like a complete double life and her fuck up, which and it's this is that she didn't get up there when she won that award and said I'm gay and this is
who I am. And I think the dual life that she was living, which she no longer lives obviously, really put her own life in jeopardy and that she allowed it to go as dark and as far as she did, and is her what she feels as her fuck up and her going through that story was gut wrenching to listen to.
And you know, you said a second ago something about how we need to give ourselves more space to mess up. How do you do that other than not being afraid to be vulnerable? And also you were talking about people you know who are living this genuine life. I think Pink is a great example on and off stage. I think most how do we give ourselves room to fuck up?
I don't know, I mean, and I don't think it's exclusive to celebrities. I mean there's somebody at work that they come to work and they present a certain way, and when they go home it's it's another way. It's not. I think it's less the judgment. I think it's more that you know, our uber results driven mentality and everything is you know, about where people feel that they are on the sort of successful scale, and we're of course
we're living in the media center. But I think in general, it's like I think, I think that the more successful people, and it doesn't just mean money or celebrity, I think more the more people who are comfortable in themselves kind of success gives space to the people around them to fuck up and not judge them and say, you know what, that sucks, I'm so sorry that happened, but you know, who knows where it's going to lead you. I just think we've lost that that's a very American thing. That's
a very American entrepreneurial spirit. Like we start from nothing, and we we were gritty, and we have pride in what we do, and we care about community, and I think all of this is like in this this is the right way, and this is the wrong way, and if you don't do it one way, you fail or you're looked at as a loser by the other. I just this is I think the idea of making space for failure is uh. It starts with individuals, but I
think it's also families, judgments and families. How many parents say, I don't like the person you're dating, I don't whatever. It's like, we're just not good at this.
We're not good at any of many things.
No, but I think I think I think inside we really are. But I just think in the quest for the perfect everything, which is the life we're living in with you know, especially in social media, it's kind of honestly, someone is gonna start a social media page, some celebrity and they're just gonna it's gonna be nothing but fuck ups. By the way, James Blunt on Twitter, I don't know if you follow this, Okay, a genius, like the most self deprecating, like he will take hate comments and he
will turn them around into the greatest one liners. And it's they'll say, like, I mean, we could look it up, but like James Blunt sucks and he would write back a comment, you know, straws whatever, lollipops whatever, and with a smiley face, and he he wears it and it makes him powerful. To me as someone who like observes that that embrace of negative feedback, and I think that's
I think we're we're struggling. I think people are struggling with it and the and that I you know, I have four kids and my teenage daughter, like I worry about like all of her friends and everybody, the compulsion to post a certain way and.
Your social media has kind of fucked us up a little bit. Yeah, maybe we could all agree we're fucked up because of social media. I you know, Billy, I want to go back to another thing. I keep going back to things you say, because you've said some things that really are igniting thoughts in my head rather than entertainment, business, careers or lives whatever. Let's talk about if you're a nurse, let's talk about, if you're an uber driver, let's talk
about if you're a police officer. Let's talk about if you're you're out there doing something other than entertainment. What kind of fuck ups, what kind of fuck ups? Can you start to identify in your life that maybe we're great for you, that don't be afraid. And you're talking about footing a report out, going out and doing a presentation in your in your insurance office, whatever, Like, how can we apply this to anyone in every one who's not an entertainment business like every everyday people.
I mean, I think what I look at, and I don't mean this in necessarily a religious context, but I do believe that we live in a world where sometimes there are like coincidences that are just unbelievably strange. You could be on the other side of a city or the country and meet someone who happens to be friends with a random person. You know. I think that there is a there is a supernatural element to life that
we're living. You know, you're thinking of someone in their favorite song comes on the radio at the exact time you think of them. Sometimes the car accident you get into where you made a wrong turn and fucked up is actually the car accident that stopped you from going to wherever you were going to go all the time
that could have been much worse for you. And that or the car accident that you were in that where you fucked up a turn and you were standing in the coffee shop waiting for someone to come pick you up, you meet the love of your life who's in the coffee shop. I think that we have to recognize that there is that sometimes failure is the forcing mechanism to clarity, and that clarity can either be events or that clarity
can be internally. I've got to stop and rethink whatever the fuck I'm doing right now, because I know I want to be there. I was supposed to be there twenty minutes ago, but for whatever reason, I'm not going to be there, and I'm here now. Example example I mean for me. I think one example is I was
going to a gig. This is when I was touring, and it was a bunch of guys and I musicians in living in a van and the van was really tall, so it was like the van size and then there was like tall van size and I was driving the van was when you're an artist and you don't have a big budget, like everybody drives. And we were I want to say, in Iowa or something, and we were driving and I went whatever motel we were saying in
and there was like the drive through. But I didn't see that the van or think that the van was taller than the top of the ceiling of that awning structure at the cell okay, and so I like, you heard the and then it was and it's like my band, So I'm totally embarrassed, and so I put in reverse. And it's not like I can afford to fix whatever it is. But we were stuck there for an extra
two days and I missed a festival date. The festival date that we didn't go to, there was like a massive lightning storm tornado thing, and they wound up canceling it and all this terrible things happened to mean we were at this location. I mean, that's one example of you know, I fucked up because I drove this van into this structure. But on the other hand, if I hadn't done that, what would have happened to us if we were there during this like tornado storm that was
happening at the festival. I guess you could say maybe nothing, but also maybe something.
Josh Hadden is in charge of engineering here at iHeart in New York City. He set his alarm clock for six pm for wakeup, when he should have set it for six am because he was supposed to be at the World Trade Center that morning. On September eleventh, two thousand and one. Right, there's a fuck out, right, right, but look at the payoff?
Right? But that's but isn't that? It? Though? Is that there are some of these This is the make space for I think when things happen to us, we're so in the immediate moment of oh my god, oh my god, oh my God, that we have to leave like a little bit of room if possible, to be able to think, Okay, this is I feel like Oprah or something. But what in this moment am I supposed to be hearing about where I am? And if I'm forced to yield and I have no control and I feel embarrassed in shame,
can I get past that? And I think the problem is it's it's harder and harder for people to get past moments of embarrassment because everybody's on camera all the fucking time. So maybe we can normalize it a little when you have celebrities talk about their moments of self doubt and failure, and most of the time it's the listening to what they really want to say and really want to do, But the mistake lies in ignoring it.
So like if nobody ever hears this podcast, and the only thing I get to say to them on your show is listen and trust what your gut is telling you, what your voice inside of you is telling you, so that if you do fuck up, you don't have regrets
because you maybe change direction to please somebody else. And when you are successful, it'll feel more real to you because you will have not ignored whatever it was that compelled you to act doing whatever it is you are passionate about, including being a nurse and being an uber driver, or even if you're an uber driver because you want to make money and survive. You know, if you have a moment where that is on pause or something happens, then I just I think, look around. I don't think
we just take I don't think we take time. I don't think we're very forgiving of ourselves.
No, no, we treat ourselves like crap. Why. I don't know. I don't know. That voice in the head is usually our worst enemy. Right. So here's my challenge for everyone listening to this, and I was included, make a mental list or write down, make a list on a piece of paper of all the fuck ups in your life, things that you could have done differently, but you didn't. You fucked up, but you learned from it right, and you grew from it, and you were resolute in never
making that mistake ever again. And those are the things that catapult you into great days and success.
I also think I'd add one piece to that, which is what good came from it?
Exactly?
Did something good come from it? Even if it's humility that you apply to yourself. Did something good happen? Did you meet a person that you never thought you'd meet. Did you learn something about yourself that went unpacked you realize helped you to be wherever it is you are. I you know, listen, this is being human means you fuck up. Being human, you're in a relationship with someone,
you fuck up, You have friendships, your coworkers. I think the human fuck ups, the worst human fuck ups are the ones that go unforgiven, the ones that go without self reflection. And because we're in this ultra judgment world
right now, I think it's just hard for people. So I know, for me, I walk away from these conversations feeling oddly enlightened and also more aware of my many faults, but also looking at those as has maybe those areas of development that there's actually real opportunity for me to excel there and I don't want to miss that. And I think we going back to you. I just think
it's not that you belong playing sports. The question is where was that guy little Elvis in the moment and is he still here in some spaces in your life? And what does that look like and how does it impact how you do business or things that you choose to do. I mean, you are like Diane Warren, your private life and a secret life, not just the public life.
I hope that social media colmes itself a little bit so that people feel better about posting photos that it's not the perfect angle or the perfect moment.
Every day we should strive to post things that show us at our worst.
By the way, I would make a bet or a challenge that if and I'm sure no one would do this, but I think if someone said for Z one hundred, for your show or for you, that you said I'm going to do a week of failure, it's gonna be failure week, and every week you post some like terrible
photo that's a moment of vulnerability. I bet that you would get an enormous amount of engagement and likes and follows and comments, and I agree, and I think and I think that that is the part that makes I think that's the part where social media can do a lot of good.
Very well said Billy. Thank you for coming in, Thank you for having me. The podcast is called Yeah, I Fucked that up?
What you just like saying?
I like saying it because the title itself is truly exactly what it is.
Well, my daughter, my nine year old, is like, Dad, you're and like, as soon as we go into the podcast, I like feel a bit of embarrassment. But even there, I think, you know, people curve. I think fuck fuck is a great word. It really is so many uses, but I think people like saying it. And in the same way, I think when people finished having the conversation, they like the conversation. So hopefully people will listen to them and they'll feel a little bit more normal.
Billy's story one of my favorite, about never giving up on what you truly believe in. From his humble beginnings wanting to play music, it's incredible to see his immense success in this industry that he just loves. And those are the stories we love to bring to you on Thinking Out Loud. If you're enjoying this podcast, why not leave us a review and give us five stars. We've got plenty more to share with you in the weeks to come, so make sure you're subscribed and you'll get
a notification when a new episode drops. Follow me at Elvis Durant on social media until next time, Peace Out. Thinking Out Loud is hosted by me Elvis Duran. The podcast is produced and edited by Mike Coscarelli. Executive producers are Andrew Paclsi and Katrina Norvell. Thanks to David Katz, Michael kind Heart and Caitlin Madore. Thinking Out Loud as part of the Elvis Duran podcast Network on iHeartRadio for more, rate review and subscribe to our show and if you
liked this episode, tell your friends. Until next time, I'm Elvis Duran.