So there's a variety ranging from you know banks you know Socchen for example, that are interested in issuing stable coins on the XORP ledger, to asset managers that are participating with some of the tokenization platforms. There's been you know, Aberdeen has issued certain money market funds through our checks, which is a tokenization provider on the XORP Ledger.
So this episode is brought to you by bidgo, which is a top tier crypto custodian that has been in the industry since twenty thirteen. It's headed up by Mike Belshiw who's a Web one point zero two point zero legend. Bitco provides incredible services. In addition to custody, they allow you to manage your tokens, get all types of liquidity
and much more. And some of the companies that use bitgo include Bitstamp, Exchange Suite, the Token Project, Pantera Capital that's Dan moorehead, as well as twenty one Shares which issues bitcoin and ethereum ets. Some of the great services that bidgo provides includes Wallet Services, which is secure, trusted, scalable wallet solutions, Prime Services, which allows you to get seamless access to liquidity and capital It also allows you
to list, manage and grow your ecosystem. And they have what's called the Go network, which is a secure, real time global settlement. Recently, bitco launched a retail platform that allows you to trade stake and of course custody or crypto assets. And this is a great solution because it provides you with top tier cryptosecurity and securities of course a big factor in investing in crypto, and Bitco's offering an incredible incentive as they launch this platform where you
can get a chance to win bitcoin. They're giving away at least one bitcoin every quarter, So if you sign up and have funds on the platform through the last day of each quarter starting December thirty first, twenty twenty four, you can be eligible to win some free bitcoin.
Here.
So if you'd like to learn more about bidgo, go to bidgo dot com.
Link will be in the description. Hey everybody, welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward and joining me today is Jasmine Cooper, who's head of product at ripple x. Jazz. Great to have you on.
Thanks for having me, Tony. Excited to chat with you.
Yeah, JAZZI, thank you for taking the time to do this. Lots going on with the XRP Ledger, and recently Ripple release a report titled Institutional DeFi on the XRP Ledger, what's live and What's next. So certainly the meat and potatoes of our conversation is going to be around this. But I always like to kick it off with you folks background and how they got into crypto. So tell us a bit about yourself, where you're from and what's your professional background.
Sure, yeah, so I'm originally from Connecticut, but I've kind of bounced around the US from California, Texas, Colorado, and yeah, I've been working in the fintech space for a long time. This started primarily with my first company I started, which was consumer financial health application tended to help young professionals
improve their financial situation. From there, I ended up pausing that venture and moving into an opportunity within product in the mortgage technology space, where I got a good understanding of the back ends of how mortgage mortgage servicers lenders operate and really get a sense of some of the
limitations and boundaries within traditional finance. And so that really set me up well to shift over to ripple where I started working professionally in the blockchain and crypto space and really being firsthand with you know, now institutional DeFi and fixing some of those problems that I saw in the past.
Couple roles, No, for sure, And what was your first encounter with bigcoin or crypto and what was your aha moment?
Yeah, I think that was back in you know, a little bit later than some others, but maybe twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, when smart contracts Ethereum smart contracts just started to become popular. You know, bitcoin as a token and token trading was never really the most interesting aspect of crypto to me. To me, it was more so the underlying blockchain and smart contracts that could power entire industries
in a decentralized way. So learning about ethereum smart contracts, I think one of the earliest examples people gave was around delivering mail and certifying when you know, packages were being delivered, and that stood out as especially interesting to remove some of the inefficiencies, trust layers, and cost structures that exists in a centralized way of doing things.
Now, you mentioned you worked in the real estate, our mortgage industry, right, I did as well as a loan processor at a mortgage broker many moons ago. And now you have, of course companies trying to tokenize real estate but also improve the real estate process, which more contract
technology and blockchains. What are your thoughts on that? And it may cut out a lot of fees, a lot of middlemen, and in addition to real estate market and mortgage industry, other industries are going to be changed as well. But it seems like, you know, real estate is going to be a big one because we all need housing, we all need shelter.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I mean, real estate tokenization hasn't been a use case I've personally spent too much time on. I do see the opportunity there from a crowd funding perspective, you know, it can be tricky in terms of managing consumer protection and all of that with giving access to various real estate investment opportunities. So yeah, I think I think it's interesting from an access standpoint,
from an efficiency standpoint. But where I really get excited about, you know, on chain, you know, real world assets, for example, is when it comes to you know, a lot of money movement, like with collateral use cases and you know, global payments and things like that. I think that's where blockchain can can really shine. But you know, real estate is also, you know, definitely interesting, and you know, if I were to guess it, you know it's going to increase in uptake over the next five ten years.
Oh for sure. Now tell us a bit about ripple X for those who may not know. We know of ripple the company, but what does ripple X specifically do.
Yeah, good question. So riple X is a distinct business unit within ripple that focuses on the XORP Ledger, the public layer one blockchain. So we participate with the XRPL in a number of different ways. My team, the product team, contributes to the core features and capabilities, so we'll design alongside the community, implement, propose new feature amendments for the
XRP ledger. You know, it works a little bit differently in that it's not smart contract based, so a lot of the new features are at the core blockchain level. Some other teams in ripple x focus on developer enablement that can be either through programs like accelerators, incubators, grants, as well as through technical tooling, so client libraries, explorers, and a variety of different tools that can help the
ecosystem of DAPT developers build and launch their products. So that's that's really the focus on Ripple X. Of Ripple X, we stand alongside other businesses within Ripple, you know that focus on other products such as r l U, S d E, custody and payments for example.
Now, there's been a lot happening on the XRP ledger, a lot of exciting news and developments. But referencing the recent report I was put out about institutional DeFi and the XRP Ledger, tell us about that. What's on the roadmap here? What are you guys trying to achieve?
Yeah, yeah, good question. So you know, Ripple and ripple X are a single contributor to the XRP Ledger. So I don't view view this as the XORP ledgers roadmap, but rather, you know, Ripple's contribution and our view of how we would like to see uh some of the use cases on the x ORP ledger grow and expand you know, I think we're not the only ones in the industry that are seeing the big uptake this year
and and and last year by institutions. Uh, and now that's accelerated even further by you know, the current regulatory environment that's starting to really look deeply at digital assets and how they can improve industries. Uh, as well as the current administration in the US that's now you know,
more crypto friendly than than past administrations have been. So there's a lot of a lot of tailwinds that we see now and we think it's the right time to really double down and do what you know, Ripple has really been focused on historically, which is providing blockchain based building blocks for financial institutions to bring their businesses or part of their businesses onto the blockchain and unlock efficiencies, reductions, et cetera, you know, but by leveraging the core competencies
of blockchain. So that's kind of what we're looking at at a high level, and you know, happy to to dive into specific examples of that as you're interested.
Yeah. Sure. How about tokenization because I saw it, yes the other day r W A dot x y Z. I think that's what they called integrated x XRP ledger where we can see the active developments that are happening on the XRP ledger for tokenized assets. What is your vision there and how you how are you trying to track institutions to tokenize on the XRP ledger.
Yeah, yeah, that's that's a good a good starting place. So tokenization, you know, is kind of the beginning of the life cycle for any sort of on chain finance. So if you want to do stable coin payments, you first need stable coins. If you want to do you know, real estate investment diversification, you first need in on chain
real estate token or something along those lines. So tokenization is really the beginning of of everything when it comes to r w A and institutional DEFIH and so we're really just trying to increase the utility and lower barriers to entry for institutions. So one proposal we put out recently is called multipurpose tokens. You can think of that
along the lines of a semi fungible token UH. And that's that standard allows for UH developers and token issuers to attach metadata directly to the token object on chain, versus the traditional or legacy UH fungible token on the x ORP ledger, which we call tokens or IOUs you know, is more of a relational object. So you know, io, you one dollar, you know you you've given me you've
given me one token. So by allowing a standalone object, this is better for you know, say a bond where you want to store the terms and the duration, the interest rate, all you know on that on chain object. So we're really trying to look at these use cases and make sure we have the building blocks and the standards to best support them and give you know, a best in class experience when they bring TraFi onto blockchain web.
Question on the multi purpose token, just to make sure I wrap my head around it, and also for the audience. So we know of NFTs non fungible tokens, and then you have fungible tokens. So would these tokens be It's kind of how should I put it? It's a fifth it's a hybrid. You know, it has the ability to do certain things but then be dynamic and become fungible. How does that work?
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you can issue a set of them and they're basically interchangeable between one another. You know, if you had to compare, they'll in practicality, they'll operate more like a fungible token than a non fungible token. So I think it's it's you know a little bit more close to that. You see some standards along those lines in Ethereum, like I think one one five to five is a similar instance. But the core of mpts is really about the attachment of that metadata as well
as the scalability of the asset. So you know, another thing that we're keeping in mind as we build new features and capabilities is the core competencies that exist today and not sacrificing any of those. So scalability performance. You know, right now transactions are still costing a fraction of a penny, you know, three to four second block times. We don't want to sacrifice any of that. So mpts are also highly highly scalable, which is another benefit from my eyes.
Interesting, I love it. I mean it's amazing of the new iterations or ideas and utility that's you know, coming as we move later into these adoption cycle and it's pretty cool. Like I wouldn't have thought about multi purpose token, so that's really cool. You mentioned etherorem EVM side chain. Tell us about this and how it will work with the XRP ledger.
Yeah, So the EVM side chain is just that, it's a side chain, it's a standalone chain. It's not a layer two from the x ORP ledger. Accelra will service the bridge between x or pl main neet and the EVM side chain, so that will allow for the bridging over of the native asset, which will be x r p uh so wrapped XRP by acceler will service the native asset. And you know, it's it's a Cosmo space chain,
so there's IBC built into it. You know, it also has the v moost you module as well to allow for EVM smart contract compatibility, which is kind of the core use case of it. And yeah, I'm excited about it. I think it gives developers familiar environment to experiment, test and innovate in a way that XERPL maynite may net
might not. You know, there's a limited set of programmability cusvisibility of some of the primitives on MAInet, and while I believe that those are best suited for certain use cases like payments, trading, lending, you know, collateral for institutional DeFi there's still that long tail of you know, cryptonative use cases or you know, the leading edge of innovation use cases where XORPL MAInet might not be the best best place. So EVM side chain is a good alternative for that.
Got it? So you mentioned that could be like a testing ground or and correct me if I'm wrong here in my thought process. Right here, it enables some smart contract features. I can use this as a testing ground, but I can also build something that can then be moved over to the XRP mainlet XRP letter mainlet.
Yeah, definitely, so fully interoperable. From an asset standpoint, if you issue some sort of token or real world asset on the EVM side chain, you can bridge that via axl R too XRPL MAInet and also leverage the you know, the gcentral is exchange or other protocols that you wish to use on XORPO mainenet.
Okay, got it? Got it. Now with the EVM side chain, I've been seeing a lot of questions I posted I will I will be interviewing you today and people are asking me to ask you about uh tell us about the private ledgers and how that works with the x ORP ledger. And you know the side chain. Is this EVM side chain different from a private side chain.
Yeah. So with xcrap ledger, you know, there's the ability to create custom side chains if you wish and these are just like ethereum. You know, the EVM side chain, it is fully distinct from the EXCERP ledger. And with that you can configure the settings as you wish. So you know, if you wanted to create a private permissioned side chain, uh for the EXCERP ledger, you know, you're
definitely free to do that. You can use the ripple dy codebase as a starting point create a new side chain, and then you know, our design decision was to use axel or as a bridge and use xorp as the native asset. You can make that same choice, or you can kind of build as you wish. It's up to
the developer. So I know this is a model that was used in the past for projects like CBDCs where maybe you want a more permissioned environment or more controlled environment of who can use the chain, but it is entirely distinct from you know, public xorpl mainenet got it.
So, if I'm a major financial institution and I don't want every random Joe Schmoe knowing what I'm doing necessarily because I have a proprietary information or customer data, whatever it is, I want to use that private side chain and you know, I think I know a lot of people are going to have the question of are any of those transactions, while we may not know what's happening, are they counted towards the XORP main net or not. It's completely separate now.
They're completely separate blockchain, not not counted in any part of you know, x RPL main net consensus or anything like that. They're distinct chains that allow for bridging, just
like any other blockchain. But to your point there on you know, privacy, this is something we're early stage on, but you know, we do have a research and development team that's doing some great work and to zero knowledge and really looking into how can we allow some degree of privacy optionality within XRPL main net itself so that long term, large institutions won't have to operate on a standalone,
distinct blockchain. So that's something that you know, longer term I'm very excited about as well.
Yeah, to your point, a lot of chains are exploring a zero ZK and many of them are building like private subnets and things like that. So this is not exclusive to the XRP ledger, but certainly I guess a feature many are exploring because this is what institutions want.
Definitely, and I think it can be done in a in a way that doesn't necessarily compromise on core values of blockchain. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Uh. It could be confined just to the operations of you know, a single entity or a single domain. It's it's early stage, but you know, I'm excited about this research path.
With this private uh side chain. Can they use assets like x RP or or l U s D or other assets.
So again it comes down to what bridge is connected. Okay, so you know, take the EVM side chain as an example. Any private side chain that someone creates will operate similarly. We're using Axler is the bridge. Any asset that can be bridged by Axlar can exist in a wrapped form on the on the side chain.
Okay, got it? Got it? And then on the other aspect of the XRP ledger or of feature is the a m M the automated market maker. Tell us about that and how that's been going.
Yeah, good question. So you know, xerpl decks was one of the first decentralized exchanges to be built. It was based on order books, which is a little bit of an unusual concept as everyone is used to the automated market maker based dex is in blockchain, but we wanted to expand the functionality of the order book based decks in a couple of different ways. You know, they do a great job of providing liquidity for the long tail of tokens when you don't have professional market makers that
are supporting that market. They also allow for you know, a yield opportunity for token holders if they're willing to supply their liquidity for the functionality of the protocol. So mm's were an interesting concept that we wanted to expand the XRPL decks with, and we did so in a
UNI where the two work in an interconnected fashion. So if you as a user, uh, you know, executed a trade order, the system under the hood will decide will you get a better price if the A m M solves for that or the order book solves for that. And so I think it's quite neat and useful from from a trader perspective in that regard, and it's growing
quite well. I don't have the exact you know, TVL numbers at hand today, but you know it's it's grown in ranges of tens of millions quarter quarter over quarter, and there hasn't been any you know, inorganic incentive programs to to date, so all of that was just bootstrapped or organic adoption. So I think it's going very well to date.
That's awesome. And I noticed there's been an influx of meme coins on the x RP ledger, you know, meme coins at this big movement at started last year and it's been going on on Salon and other blockchains. How are you guys feeling about uh, you know mean coin Issuer is on the XRP ledger.
Yeah, I mean the beauty of blockchain and and open source development is uh, developers users they can build and partake in whatever is most interesting to them. And you know, we saw similar types of uh speculation and uh you know hype with art collectible NFTs for example, a couple of years ago. And so while it's not something that I or Ripple uh you know, spend a significant amount of time on, it's a little bit more speculative than
the use cases that we focus on. Uh. It's a fun and interesting use case that you know, might be a convenient entry point for certain consumers.
Oh for sure. Yeah, it's you know, like I'm not a big fan of new coins, and uh, although there are some legacy menue coins which I think are great because they have a brand that commune, like doge coin and so forth. But you know, it's interesting to see all these things happening on the blockchain and like, no one could necessarily predicted NFTs and no one could have predicted mem coins, and it's just funny how these things
pop up. But you know, humans are going to find the things they like, and they're going to like you said, it's open sources, they're gonna build what they what they want. In regardless to institutions that are using the XRP ledger, tell us about the types. You may not be able to give us names, but what are the types their banks, hedge funds, what are they?
Yeah, so there's a variety ranging from you know banks, you know SoC gen for example, that are interested in issuing stable coins on the XORP ledger, to asset managers that are participating with some of the tokenization platforms. There's been you know, Aberdeen has issued certain money market funds through our checks, which is a tokenization provider on the
XORP ledger. So I think there's there's a wide range from banks to asset managers that are starting to discover the value of of tokenization and of XRPL in particular.
Mm hm. And you know when they when they tokenize on the blockchain, you know, are they thinking about I guess, let me reframe this. You know, are they thinking like the crawl walk up run approach or they kind of know what they want to do. We're going to tokenize and then we're going to enter do some sort of DeFi We're going to do this and that, or are they still trying to figure out what get getting in a lay over the land?
Yeah, it really depends on the institution. You know, there's also cryptonative institutions which I didn't mention, which are knee deep in crypto and they have been for for several years. Uh so some of the you know big money you know, uh money managers in the space. It really depends. It's nice with you know, the Ripple organization. We have a number of different touch points with institutions. So take Custody for example, they'll sit down with large banks that our
interest in tokenization. They know a lot about it, but they haven't done it. Firsthand and are really looking for, you know, a guiding hand to walk them through you know, their tokenization journey. And that's something that our custody team has has been able to really lead the charge with and help some of the bigger legacy financial institutions take
their initial initial steps there. Uh. And that's when you know, other products can be brought into the mix, ranging from our U s D to the payments products as well
as EXCERP Ledger of course, so that definitely helps. And then we have you know, more crypto forward organizations, some of the money market funds like Aberdeen UH for example, they're an asset manager out of the UK, and they have a lot of really smart forward thinking ideas around how you know they can leverage the decentralis exchange with on chain trading and you know how they can really move beyond just bringing the asset on chain to unlocking utility,
you know, with a mind for you know, compliance and regulation and keeping things above bar. So definitely excited about you know, the wide range of institutional use cases.
Oh for sure, you mentioned r l U s D and UH a ripple stable coin of course. Uh. It is on the x RP leisure, but also ethereum tell us about how that's been going, and also are their plans to expand to other blockchains.
Yeah, great, great question. So r u S is UH doing well. Adoption has has been rapid, you know, their support and a variety of different centralized exchanges. UH market cap is is rapidly growing. UH. So I think we're
excited about it. You know, we're working closely with key regulators to UH ensure that we can maintain standards as as the most compliant you know stable coin on the market today, UH, and seeing a lot of demand within you know, cross border payments and in particular markets that are looking for US dollar denominated UH stable coins that that can help unlock UH you know, peer to peer payments or B two B payments as well. So overall, I think it's it's been going well. In terms of
other chains, you know, that's that's not my team. I can't necessarily touch on the hat. I don't know their latest latest strategy there.
So could an institution or you know, whatever they may be, come and issue their own stable coin on the XRP ledger, you know, given that this is open source, but you know, I know Ripple has its own stable coin there, but technically another issue you know, company could do the same, right, Oh.
Of course, Yeah, anyone can issue a stable coin on the x or P ledger. You can issue a stable coin on the x or P ledger. You know, from a technical standpoint, I think you know where things become challenging is, you know, are you meeting DFS and other regulations? How are you managing you know, the treasury is everything back to one to one? How reputable are the you know, institutions holding the underlying asset? You know, is it diversified?
So you know, anyone can issue an asset. I think it's the quality that that becomes important.
So Jesse, tell us a bit about the other things that are on your roadmap with the XRP Ledger. What else are you guys working on and what can we expect in twenty twenty five.
Yeah, So there's a couple other features I'm especially excited about. So permission decks is one of those. So we've built a permissioning mechanism on the XRP Ledger called permission Domains. It leverages another proposal that went out this year called credentials, So it basically creates a controlled environment where you can basically have certain requirements to participate. So imagine you only want players that are ky seed and over a certain
age to participate in your protocol. You can use credentials in the Permission Domains tool to do that, and we're applying that to a couple different protocols. The Permission decks is one, so this will allow regulated entities like Ripple to bring a portion of their payments volume onto the decentralized exchange and save on some of the costs and
fees that exists with centralized exchange. So I think this is a really monumental feature is in that it allows finally institutions to bring centralized exchange activity onto the decentralized exchange in a compliant way. So that's one that I'm especially excited about. We've already released some of the components of that in a release earlier this month, so that's out for voting through the coalidator set right now. And then another one I'll just touch on at a high
level is the lending protocol. So we're working on an XORPL native lending protocol made up of a couple of different components, but it basically allows for fixed term under collateralized loans in V one to be originated directly on
the x ORP ledger. So that kind of kind of rounds out what I see as the kind of core pillars of bringing TRADFI onto blockchain, which is support for payments, support for trading, and support for credit, which are clearly, you know, some of the key components that make our trade five system work today.
So JAZZI, do you think like in twenty years, right, and not that banks are going to disappear, but many of them are going to be using blockchains like the XRP ledger, but a lot of borrowing lending will be done this way where we don't necessarily have to walk into our local bank or the big JP Morgans and you know, apply, but could go on an app online and through some decentralized finance protocol or application and put out feelers and and the lending or the loan or
whatever could come from another part of the world because it's all on chain.
Right right, Yeah, I mean I'm definitely a team evolution of traditional finance as opposed to replacement.
Uh.
And you know, if banks are willing to adopt some of these modern infrastructure components like blockchain and help remove inefficiencies and push on some of those cost savings to the borrower, you know, reduce some of the inaccessibility that exists in our our current credit system. Then yeah, I think that's a really exciting, exciting future.
I wanted to ask you about the xrp lectric decentralization and I want to get updates from you on you know, the number of validators, nodes and things like that, and how you guys are pushing to have it be more decentralized, because I don't know if there's any blockchain that's one hundred percent decentralized. I think everyone is on the path to getting as decentralized as possible. Obviously the x rapey
Ledger is decentralized, but I viewed as a scale. I don't know if you agree with me and tell us a bit about that.
Yeah, So extrapy Ledger uses a unique consensus mechanism that's a little bit different from what you've seen, you know, with popular chains, including proof of work, proof of steak. It's similar to proof of authority, but not exactly. I think that's an easy way to summarize it. Although misses some of the nuances. But that being said, you know, there's thirty five validators in the UNL, which is the approved list of validators that will participate in consensus and
also vote on amendments. So all the roadmap items that I've just been talking to talking about, all of those go up for vote, and and it's that UNL list that ultimately has to vote for it. So we're looking for eighty percent or more consensus of the thirty five un L validators held for about two weeks, and then the amendment is activated, assuming the position doesn't change. So of those thirty five validators, Ripple one runs one of them.
So there's a number of other validators run by you know, key contributors in the community, you know, academic universities as well, and some other institutions within the XRPL community. So that's the kind of un L validator set. In terms of nodes, I don't have the exact number top of mind, but there's I believe over over a thousand nodes. I can follow up with with exact figures there, but I would
consider it, you know, fairly decentralized. There isn't really an entity running multiple validators out of out of the thirty five, and so you know, I know there's a lot of kind of misnumbers out there about ripple operating the the you know, having a dominant say over the x ORP ledger. Ultimately, you know, all of these amendments that we've talked about as well as consensus, we have the same control as anyone else, which is one out of thirty five currently.
So we've seen the success of the bigcoin and ethereo mets. Particularly the bigcoin et aps have broken records. Now there's a ton of all coin et aps in play. Big issuers are filing for them with the sec XRP is getting a lot of them. You know, how do you view these applications and the demand for the XRP asset.
Yeah, I think it's great. Twenty twenty four was a banner year for crypto ETFs. The current administration is definitely favorable on that front. So I expect to see more progress to come. You know, from an institutional isation standpoint of crypto assets, having access through an ETF two assets like BTC and ethereum makes a lot of sense. It really lowers the barrier for everyday people to gain access and gain exposure to what's becoming, you know, one of
the key asset classes in the global economy. Uh. And so I think it makes a lot of sense. As you mentioned, we've seen BTC and ethereum x RPS has filed as well, and there's a lot of traction there. You know. I expect the momentum to continue, and I think it's great for institutions. I think it's great for you know, consumers and investors as well.
Oh for sure. And then you know, this year, everyone is kind of expecting crypto legislation to be passed along with staple couint legislation, given that we've got the most pro crypto government ever from the President to Congress to the SEC. The big change that's happened across the board. You and the team at Ripple, you know, excited about these things, and you know, how are you viewing this change in the.
I mean, I love innovation ultimately, and I think that uh, some of the uh you know, wells notices and some of the the actions that were taken previously, uh, you know, against certain entities that were operating in the crypto space in a way that was as above bar as they knew how or could you know, we're still hit with
response negative responses from you know, past administrations. Uh, the fact that you know, some entities were afraid to even seek guidance because that could result in uh, you know, negative actions against them. It is not you know, a path towards uh, positive innovation and improvement in our financial system.
It's it's really just staggering growth. And so you know, from that respect, I'm excited to see uh, you know, some of the cases dropped already and excited to see uh sort of the barriers that that this uhduces or removes by giving a clear path to innovation, and hopefully we start to see more and more guidelines around, you know, how we should operate within the crypto space in the US in a way that is safe and is you know, above bar So overall, I'm positive on on that front for sure.
And you know, are you anticipating you know, once these things are passed, there's a boom in the US of crypto you know versus in the past has been a struggle. But entrepreneurs, innovators can hit the ground running. That may be more capital coming into this acid class in the industry.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, the the ETFs are are a great pathway for that. And then you know, alongside regulation, I'm excited to see some of the user experiences, some of the you know, utility for certain defied protocols to to really improve and increase, and I think that will also bring the next wave of adoption.
All right, days, I got some wrap up questions here for you. First, if you could create your own metaverse, what will the theme be?
Yeah, probably something like an adventure land. I love rock climbing and you know, all sorts of adventure sports, so you know a place that you can do that in a safe and exciting way.
And rapid fire questions.
Favorite food food This is embarrassing, but mozzarellistics.
I love Monzireli sticks. A favorite musician or bad.
It varies, but right now probably Zach Bryan.
Favorite movie.
Forst. Gump is a classic.
That's a great man. Favorite book.
I really like Let My People Go Surfing by Von Schnard hmm.
And when you're not working a ripple, what do you doing for fun?
Mostly outdoors activities, kiteboarding, rock climbing, all those those types of fun things.
Awesome. Jessie Pleasure chatting with you really exciting updates around the XRP Ledger and I would love to have you back on you know, as things progress. But thank you so much for joining me.
Yeah, thanks for having me Tony. It was great chatting with you.