¶ Intro
UH, and we felt that was a bit of a gap in the market for xop as well as also the fact that you know xopp in terms of the XVP army has a very large following globally UH and we're generally part of that as well.
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includes ripples r l USD. You can earn up to five percent on that stable coin and five point twenty five percent on USBC. So if you'd like to learn more about Uphold and all the great services they offer, visit the link in the description. Hey, folks, welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and joining me today is Kevin Chin, who's the executive chairman and CEO of Vivo Power, and Adam Trademan, who's the chairman of the Board of Advisors for Vivo Power and
the former CEO of SBI Ripple Asia. Kevin, Adam, great to have you both.
Thank you, Tony. Thanks, happy to be here, Yeah, great to be on. Thank you.
Yeah. I'm super excited to speak with you both because we of course got the very big news of Vivopower adopting an XRP Treasury Reserve asset strategy, and you're doing much more than that. So I have a lot of questions for you, but let's kick it off with some quick introductions. Kevin, tell us a bit about your background
¶ Kevin & Adam intro
and Vivo Power as well.
Sure, Tony, thanks again.
So background wise, I've been an entrepreneur across different industries for twenty plus years, both from an operational and an investing perspective. My crypto journey actually started with buying XRP in twenty sixteen, so that was my first coin that I bought, and I was attracted to the utility and it's mission then of disrupting and improving payment flows around
the world, particularly to emerging markets. I do a whole bunch of stuff in developing nations, both from a for profit as well as nonprofit perspective, and could see some of the real life challenges there. So, you know, fast forward to today, when the opportunity came about to turn Vivo into a crypto, I was sorry an XTRP focus, not just Treasury company, but Treasury and DeFi Solutions company.
I really felt convicted to do that, as did the rest of the board, and fortudiously was able to meet Adam, and Adam has been instrumental, given his background and experience to help us launch and we're now in full blown execution mode.
Yeah, that's exciting, Adam. I know of your background because we've spoken many times over the years, but for those who may not know, you give us a bit of a background on yourself.
Sure, Thanks Tony, and thanks again for having us on. It's great to talk to you again. I'm originally an engineer from Sylvie Valley. I was actually in a completely different industry and JIP design started my career at NASA and cal Tech. Over time after moving to the Valley, I became a serial entrepreneur and then the founding CEO
of five companies. Raised about three hundred million dollars for those companies, and it was fortunate enough to build great products and teams and make my team's employees and shareholders money as a result of that by exiting those companies. I got into crypto about ten years ago or eleven twenty fourteen. To be honest, I was really, really skeptical at first. I probably mentioned that to you when we spoke before. I was approached by an ex employee of
mine to get into crypto. He said bitcoin is the most important thing going on in your lifetime. I thought it was crazy. I didn't talk to him for a year. He's now a much wealthier man than I am. But about a year later we joined forces and created the first bitcoin, which at the time was the only cryptocurrency self custody wallet that was in the Apple App Store
on the day that Apple allowed the coin apps. We built that business up to about fifteen million users in twenty million in assets on platform and sold it to Coinbase.
I was at Coinbase for a while. Parallel to all that, as you mentioned before, I was the CEO of SBI and Rivols joint venture in Asia based in Tokyo, handling rivals to Asia business mainly for across wordter financial transactions remittances, you know, and to kind of promote and license their technology to large banks, central banks in Southeast Asia and other parts of Asia as well, so get a lot
of exposure. I sat on the board of Ribel Labs for a while, also very very intimate with them, and so when Kevin approached me with the vision for Vivo Power, my background gave a unique perspective and so I decided to join the company as the chairman of their advisory board. I think we've all been watching digital asset treasury companies after Michael Sailor's huge success of micro Strategy Meta Planet in Japan as well, obviously a huge success, and now
there's gosh, over one hundred other ones out there. View of Power was the first with XRP and made a big announcement as you mentioned a few weeks ago, with a big financial race on top of that in collaboration with Ripple. So that's exciting. But what really attracted me to Kevin and his team where they're not just another digital asset play. It's not just about how can I buy into the underlying asset in this case XRP through a public equities market with their nastactorate at stock VPR.
It's about their strategy to really grow the whole XRPL ecosystem and really grow the pie. And they have material ways that they're doing that, from a venture fund to their own businesses, promoting and adopting XRP as a payment method and a method of I'm streating money and across order solution, as well as really trying to figure out how to support the ecosystem in a variety of new ways.
So instead of just holding the asset like micro strategies doing, the VVO team is really trying to grow the overall XRFL ecosystem, and I think that's what brought me and my interest to the company and what also keeps us really closely hitched to ripple as well.
Yeah, it's so fascinating this trend that is happening. It
¶ Crypto Treasury Trend
seems to be a paradigm shift of how corporates and enterprises can adopt crypto and to your point, not just hold the asset, but go beyond that. You know, do you see this being a trend that continues to grow and a new way for companies to monetize and also preserve their wealth or the cash on their balance sheet.
Right, So I mean treachery management for any company private or public is there's fonsibility of the aufice of the CFO generally, right, and they have a variety of methods that they use in tradfi in order to try to make a return on their assets, the currency and other assets that they're holding, right as a responsibility to their shareholders. Again,
whether they're private or public. I think companies like micro Strategy and Vivo Power we are we are the vanguard, We are the tivitys sphere, right, we are the ones who are pioneering this strategy of not only holding crypto on our balance sheets, but really trying to hit an m NAV that is that is higher than the net asset value, Right, by doing things that go beyond just holding the asset. My theory, Tony is today it's companies like us that are holding crypto on the balance sheet.
Sometime in the not too distant future, every private and public company is going to be holding crypto on their balance sheet. It's just the right thing to do for your shareholders.
Wow.
And just just to add to that, Tony, you know, what we're seeing around the world is legislation being passed by government.
By stock exchanges.
To allow companies to hold digital ascets and crypto on their balance sheets, whereas previously, you know, in countries like South Korea, you know, Pakistani UEE, that that wasn't permissible.
¶ VivoPower overview
Kevin. For those who may not know of Vivo Power, and when you went public and so forth, tell us a bit about what the company does and when did you go public.
Sure, So we actually went public in late twenty sixteen, so we'd been a listed company on Nasdaq for almost a decade. We started off as a solid development company, grew very fast, you know, went from zero to twenty mili bit dara in two years, and that was really what kind of spawned the interest to take us public. Over the years, it's been you know, a choppy ride at times, and we about five six years ago also entered by acquisition to the electric vehicle business, albeit in a niche.
It's a very large niche.
It's sort of for off road applications, so we do electric vehicle conversions for safari operators, for mining, for agriculture, so on and so forth. We decided to about a year ago spin out that business into a separate listed company, so we were looking to repurpose Vivo into a new business, and we've been working on this digital asset strategy for you know, since September last year, So that's a bit of the history.
Now. The decision to choose XRP as the asset because
¶ Why XRP
there's bitcoins, ethan others out there. Was it because of your initial investment in XRP, going back to your first foray in crypto assets, or was there another reason that.
Was part of it?
So I have genuine conviction in XRP and what it's doing and what it can do in terms of a raft of DeFi solutions right for markets around the world that we've been active in in terms of investing and operating businesses. So that was a big part of it for sure, but also you know, by virtue of the fact that you know, I think there's more than one hundred bitcoin treasury companies as well, we felt that was you know, quite crowded already and there are people doing
it very well in the markets already. Similarly with Solana and EATH, there were already sort of other players you know, coming to market or already you know, launched, and we felt there was a bit of a gap in the market for XRP.
As well as also the fact that.
You know, XRP in terms of the XRP army has a very large following globally and.
And we're generally part of that as well.
So you know that that was that, you know that some of the reasons.
And can people who right now can access let's say
¶ Stock XRP Proxy
an x r P e t F use this stock as kind of a pseudo e t F to to get exposure to XRP.
Yeah, basically, that's that's our.
Strategy with respect to allowing those who would like to get exposure to XRP or ripple in terms of you know, not not just the token, but in terms of DeFi solutions. You know, as Ada mentioned, we will be investing in companies that are building off the x RPL ledger. We are also committed to investing surplus fear at US dollars into r l U s D, which is the.
Stable coin you know for ripple.
So to the extent someone wants to gain exposure to XRP and the broader sort of ripple ecosystem and mission of helping to grow that pie, this is a listed regulated proxy for doing.
That, that's right. So VVPR stock is basically a proxy in an equity form for XRP and also for sort of the entire ecosystem. Like Kevin said, in addition to investing in XRPR related companies, our goal with that is to help companies that can help us, right ye, earn yield on our XRP holdings, so that we can actually earn yield on that XRP the workholding, which will create hopefully an increase in our net assets, right and hopefully
a better return for our shareholders. That's the ultimate goal, right. So we're definitely a proxy for the you know, here in the in the US, Tony, you can't there's a big market, say for MicroStrategy. When people want to buy in their retirement accounts, right, like their four oh one k or iris. Right, there's no way to buy XRP there today, and so you're right, VVPR offers a great proxy for folks who who want to get XRP exposure but otherwise can't directly.
And with the DeFi component. I'm curious about this and
¶ DeFi Yield Dividend
is the yield so to speak, going to be paid out in like a dividend.
Right, so that that would be that would be the plan, and so it would be a direct benefit for the users. Now, the current generation ETFs like that you see for dickcoin or whatever, they can't actually or theory of they can't actually go and generate a yield and do staking and other things. Right, So even the upcoming XRP ETF will probably be held back in that scenario. So in this case, you're you're getting the benefit of that upside through the
exposure in the equity. I think that's a real differentiator for potential investors.
Oh absolutely, I love that, And I know a lot of institutions and folks are hunting for yield because they hold the asset, but if they can get the yield with it, that would be It's really a great incentive.
Can you imagine if if Michael Saylor was doing that micro strategy, just how much more that company would be successful. And that's why we're trying to kind of one up you know, that sort of standard model in the Treasury's list.
Sure, Now as far as the purchasing of XRP, are
¶ Funds to purchase XRP
using the cash on your balance you or are you raising debt to do that?
We're raising equity to do that at the moment. So we have an anchor investor in his role, Highness Prince Subdulaziz from Saudi Arabia, So he himself has been a holder of xed up piece since twenty seventeen. So that's how the kind of dots joined and why it was interested in the project as well with us. So at the outset, we're using equity uh to to fund you know, the build out of the treasury and DeFi Solutions strategy.
In terms of debt, we don't have plans to you know, take on debt at this stage, you know, to increase, but in in due time if it makes sense and if the cost of capital equation stacks up and the sort of risk reward stacks up, then we would consider doing so.
Is it similar to the Michael Saylor's model, Tony where he always says delucion is a creative which you know, is that is an illogical thing to say, but he has proven that he's right, right, So it's a similar kind of thing. You issue more shares, right, and to use that to buy the underlying outset, and then as a result you end up ultimately outperforming the underlying outset, and so there is appreciation, say in micro strategy stock price, that's pretty imperant.
Yeah.
Absolutely. Now there was an announcement of a partnership with
¶ BitGo and Flare
Bidgo for custody as well as Flair for the DeFi yield. Tell us about those partnerships and how do you foresee working with those folks.
Well, Bicco for custody. I've worked with Biko since the beginning of Bicco. Actually know the founder as well and the whole team there, so there's a lot of trust and we've been a customer there as many times before my companies have right and so yes, our press release talked about using them for as a custody provider as well as an OTC desk for our Fiat conversions into XRP and then to custody the XRP and r l USD that we as a company are holding, So we're
excited to be working with them. They're best in class, US based and a really really great team of people when it comes to Flare, Flair is our first partner on the DeFi yield generation piece. Ripple as an investor in Flair, we've known the Flair team for a very long time. I have to my prior work in crypto.
There's a lot of trust there. Ripple really highly recommends them as well, so they're going to be our first partner where we're in trusting XRPE onto their network in order to generate yield.
Now you mentioned also holding our l U s D
¶ RLUSD usage
which is Ripples stable coin also you can generate yield from that in doing different things. But are you planning to also use the stable coin for payments, whether it be cross border, internal or whatever it may be?
Absolutely absolutely so.
You know, we're active through various parts about business, particularly across South East Asia, developing nations in Africa like Ghanner and Kenya, and we've experienced, you know, firsthand, and we still do experience it, the friction of you know, international wiring and so that's getting caught up in the swift system. So our o USD is you know, something that's growing itself and we're committed to using that.
In terms of some of our businesses as well.
So actually in the next few weeks we're going to start trialing that with regards to some of our Philippines based businesses already.
And obviously you're using our l U s D And obviously the XRP ledger is connected to Ripple, but you're not working with Ripple directly. You're independent, right.
We're independent, but you know, by virtue of Adam and others, we've formed a good relationship. We were we were at the XRP conference in Singapore, the APEX conference two weeks ago, so we met you know, all the scenic guys.
And girls and the team.
Fell it very much welcomed, you know, in terms of being part of the XRP ecosystem. You know, met with Hugo at Flair and his team. They are you know, very generous and warm in terms of introducing us to folks as well. So whilst it's not an official arrangement if you like, at this stage, we know them, we work with them and you know, we genuinely want to help grow the pie Tony.
I would say we're highly aligned with the Ripple vision, but we're obviously independent from them. One of the things that that does that is beneficial to the overall ecosystem is we're not in any way sort of held back by the issues that they've had with the SEC compliance and regulatory things that they need to deal with in their business and have been actually very successful in doing.
But that gives us sort of a parallel track, if you will, right, And there's a lot of connections between what we do and what they do, and a lot of goodwill as well. But basically it's all about growing the buye and so yes, we're very heavily aligned with that.
Now, a question I have, and I would ask Michael
¶ Market downturn risks
Saylor this if I got the interview again and some of the other folks who are doing these treasury strategies. Obviously, markets move in cycles, right. You have your bull markets, your bear markets, and there's volatility, and crypto is very volatile. Let's say the price of XRP continues to go up and then but eventually there's a turn down the market, as with all markets, how does that affect the x RP you're holding, and how do you prepare for that?
Great question, Tony, And you know, this was a discussion we had in Singapore actually with some of the senior leaders at Rebulm, you know, and what we said to them is that you know, right now and let's be let's be upfront about this, that there is, you know, some fervor in the markets in terms of treasury based strategies, if you will. I've been in the markets for twenty five years as an investor IPO five different companies, and so I've seen all the cycles, you know, have been
through it with Vivopower as well. And what we said to Ripple's leadership is that what's really important for us is that we will still be here in five years time, in ten years time, irrespective of what goes on in the market. And the market is inherently volatile, more so in crypto than the stock markets. That is an asset though, that is an asset that you know, you can generate yield,
you can make returns off. And that's part of our goal here is to acknowledge that volatility, to take advantage of it in a sense, to create value and to create yield, and I think with regards to you know, you know, even in I think recent weeks, we've seen some correction, if you will, in terms of you know, some of the listed treasury plays.
That doesn't bother us.
I think it was always coming and that is why I think in terms of our strategy of not just being an asset holding treasury company, but also engaging and building def solutions that ultimately generate income and cash. That's the biggest point of differentiation. That's the reason why we'll still be here in five years time, ten years time, creating value for our shareholders.
Got it that It absolutely makes sense, and I see how critical the yield component is not just only asset but being able to earn off of it and can help position you to through maybe.
A bear market exactly exactly.
Now. I don't know if this makes sense, but I
¶ Tokenizing VivoPower stock
think you both know what's happening with tokenization and a lot of companies are looking to put stocks and equities on the blockchain. Are you looking at potentially tokenizing your stock and what that happened on the x RP ledger and other blockchains as well.
Yeah, great question again, Tony, I think at this stage you know, we have talked about it. I think there's still too much regulatory, regulatory risk and uncertainty with regards to doing that. Really there's only I mean, there's there's really only one company of note that's that's done it, which is PayPal, and they did have some issues, you know, under previous you know, sec leadership. That's gone away for now. But our view is it's probably too early to try it.
And you know, the whole issue of being defined as a secure is you know, is a very nuanced one, and right now we don't feel it's the right focus for us at this job ship. You know, it doesn't mean we won't do it in future, but I think regulation needs to be far clearer before we embark on that.
Yeah, great point, because here in the United States we're still waiting for clarity the market structure regulations still being worked on. I know in the EU they have the microregulations, and I'm not sure if Hong Kong and these other jurisdicims have put out regulations. But even so, the tokenization component is still more clarity needed from major global markets.
Exactly exactly with regards.
To the strategy around XRP, do you see this being
¶ Shortterm or longterm XRP strategy?
a long term strategy that you know, this ACCID class is still young, it's going to mature. And are you looking you know what type of time horizon I guess is my question, are you looking at with holding this asset and continuing to.
Buy it as well?
I we we we think in sort of five year cycles when we when we when we formulate strategy and execution plans. So we definitely see you know, growth in x r P, x R P, L R O U s D and the you know, the DeFi ecosystem around that over the next five years. And you know, I think more broadly as you would have seen, you know, circles done very well post I p o H, and you know that's starting to elevate to public awareness. You know, the opportunity was stable coin number one, but number two.
I think this whole area of DeFi has been you know, confined to crypto circles. But I think over the next five years it's going to become more and more understood and mainstream. Uh And and you know without a question that there is a very strong set of talents, you know, behind that. So we definitely see over the next five years commitment to and building out of and contributing to the xop ecosystem void by these talids.
Yeah, I'm fascinating to see how this all plays out. It's it's an exciting time. And to see this technology growing and getting adoption from institutions to public companies like yourself, it's just amazing. And I'm just fascinated as to what the new innovations are going to be and use cases and much more. You know, as far as your outlook
¶ Outlook on Crypto
on the crypto market, and Kevin, you can kate off and I would love to get Adam's take as well. You know, where do you see this market this year? Do you see legislation getting passed? Do you see a lot of innovation happening and kind of happening globally as well. It's not just the United States.
I think the regulatory settings and not just in the US, but globally are becoming far more accommodating, very very quickly. As I mentioned, you know, even countries like Pakistan hitherto you know, six months ago, you know, you just don't talk crypto, but now it's it's being embraced and we're seeing that, you know, in.
Many countries around the world.
So that is very important in terms of then providing confidence to investors, to entrepreneurs to accelerate, you know, building out of you know, defied solutions which are much needed and I would argue even more so in developing nations than in more developed nations.
So that's that's exciting.
And from a personal perspective, you know, as I mentioned, we've got projects and businesses in the Philippines which we can see tangibly the benefits of some of these solutions that are being built at the moment. So I think, for sure there will be volatility. There always is. I think as the asset class matures, that volatility will start to taper off, as it does you know in all
forms of assets, as you know, institutional adoption increases. But still it's not it's going to be a nonlinear journey, right, but the direction of travel will be onwards and upwards for sure.
Go ahead and add to that for you, Tony. So I think the inflows due to institutional buying and ets, what they do is they create a really strong floor for the price of you know, bitcoin and etherory mis and sort of a stable floor for crypto in general and not including kind of like the all coins right, the top ten on coin market cap. Creating that more stable floor means, as Kevin said, things won't be as voluable, but it also means the downside risk I think is
going down. It's one of these it's too big to fail, the snowball, you know, continues to grow. It's you know, whichever analogy you prefer to use, right, So I think that that's great for the industry. And now couple that with the fact that those ETFs got approved under the previous administration, whereby the SEC was super anti crypto, right, and you look at what we have now, like the next three and a half years are going to be
the most incredible for crypto that we've ever seen. We've finally got I don't know if I would say regulatory clarity, but I would say that we've got a green field in terms of being able to innovate. And I think that for the current length of time that the current administration is in the White House, you're going to see.
A lot happen.
You know, I've heard hedge funds and vcs in this space. They're they're saying, now is the time, We're going to do everything right now, right, it's never been a more friendly environment. So there's a lot of money being poured into the industry. It's not just about investment in any given asset, it's about in building out the ecosystem and building out new solutions.
Right.
So you know, I probably said this to you when we spoke years ago as well, right, But the time
has It's never been a better time, essentially, right. And I think that that really helps because the US leads the world in kind of setting these standards, and it's the sort of sec position that has been that has become a lot more understanding of financial innovation in crypto is what's bleeding over internationally into all these other markets, right, And to Kevin's point, there's there was a lot of hesitation in some of those other markets, which is now
you know, sort of melting right and lightning up. So I'm really excited. I think this is a great time to be doing what we're all doing, and I think it's going to be a great next three and a half years at least, and hopefully well beyond that. Now's the time to invest, Now's the time to build a solid base, right, and now's the time to really you know, hit that hit that h you know that uh, that part of the curve right where you've got the hockey stick.
Oh.
Absolutely, it's exciting and it just seems like all the stars are aligning for the industry exactly. Yeah.
And that's exactly the phrase that Kevin uses all the time as well, Right, the stars are aligning. It's it's the point of the hockey stick going up.
Uh.
And you've got sort of this entire environment that is that is fueling that and we we've really never had that before in the history of crypto m hmm.
Yeah. I mean from a lot of uncertainty to being attacked, you know, is the saying, first they ignore you, they laugh at you, then they fight you to win.
Right now they're jealous.
But I think another big tell Tony is all the TRAPFI institutions meaning thanks right, really starting to embrace and get involved.
Right.
They at first thought it was a joke, right, then they felt competitive, right, And now they're embracing And that's huge, right, I mean with the launch of the ETFs, especially the ability to approach all these new retail and institutional investors. I mean, it's just it's I remember when I got started in twenty fourteen and bitcoin was you know, at around I don't know, one hundred bucks or something like that. It was really hard to believe that we would get
to this stage. And I'm just so proud of the entire industry that we have.
I don't know, I'm not sorry if you're sure, if you saw this news, you as well, Kevin, But I think it was just last week JP Morgan they capitulated and they're going to launch their deposit token on a public blockchain. Years ago they tried to build a private, permissioned wall garden, but it seems I think they're all recognizing now, even black Rock and these other folks, they're launching your tokenized treasuries on public blockchains and that's the way to go. So I think that that question has
been answered. You know, will have private punp permission from the big bangs takeover, and obviously not a.
Private blockchain is just a database anyway, It's nothing but that, right, So you're right, But I think for them it's an obvious business choice. It opens up business for them beyond their current customer base, right, and it's a huge financial opportunity. I think it just takes time for them to get comfortable with vetting sort of the seriousness of the market. I think seeing the inflows into the ETFs went into
that sort of management decision that they made. And also, you know, the SEC the new SEC physician I think is really important for them as well. So that's it, man, it really does feel like it's snowball is really big right now and it's not going away.
¶ Treasury strategy change the company identity
Kevin, this is a question for you. I don't know if it's the right thing to say a trend or this strategy, I should say, a blueprint that Michael Saylor has put out there. How do you see your company, Viva Power years from now. Is it more of a asset holding company x RP asset holding company and ecosystem or still the ethos of what the company is about and what the services and products you provide.
I think we will evolve, and I think it will evolve beyond just an asset holding XOP holding XOP focused treasury company. But we will activate and build out more of the defied solution side of the equation, and our goal is to have value created as a result of that. Number one through sort of investing. As Adam mentioned, we have a VC side pocket sleeve to do that, but also to generate you know, revenues and fee income from some of these defile solutions that we've started to invest
in and build on. So I think it will morph into a revenue generating company, a yield generating company.
That's the ultimate goal, just to add on to that tony Right, Like most of these treasury companies are focused on a net asset like bitcoin or ethereum that don't have a native utility, right, They're doing that because those assets like bitcoin, for example, are deemed a store of value, So it seems logical that that would be sort of the asset that you'd have in a treasury holding company, right.
But actually we believe that using a token which has real utility is even more powerful because we can influence that utility, and through that influence, like growing the ecosystem, we can influence a supply and demand of that token. Right, Michael Sailor is doing amazing thing which he can't other than buying himself, right, or he can't influence the supply
and demand directly right through business operations. We're going to be doing that and enabling a lot of other companies in the ecosystem to do that.
So that that's.
A real differentiator that we're excited about. And so when Kevin talks about sort of expanding you know, the role that vivil power can play, I think that plays into it a lot as well.
Yeah, I'm very fascinated about how this changes the identity of certain companies and and you know, even the ethos. It's just fascinating in a good way, you know, not that it's anything bad, just uh, with this acid class and truly being global and the public companies around the world can do this is just fascinating to see how they morph and what they become.
Yeah, yeah, well they're really there. Really isn't a.
You know, well known you know, if you ask people about Okay, what's what's a big treasury company? Everyone knows Meta Strategy or micro Strategy and Metea Planet in Tokio. But if you ask people what's listed DeFi Solutions company there is there really isn't one, per se. So we'd like to be one of those. And that's that's the long term goal MHM.
And as you build out the DeFi ecosystem, can both
¶ Retail and Institutions can participate
retail and institutions participate or will certain things just be exclusive to let's say institutions.
No, I think, you know, the the exercise here with respect to Vivo is to democratize that access, you know, to a company that's doing not just you know, asset management, if you will, but also building out DeFi solutions and investing in DeFi solutions, so anyone can can invest by you know, buying Vivo stock to gain exposure to that.
And then of course those solutions that we're going to help build in the ecosystem, I'm sure will also be available to other customers, right, and there would be no reason why they wouldn't be scalable to institutional and retail customers as well. Right, But for right now, the Vivo stock is basically the proxy right for getting involved in supporting not only the underlying XRPS, but the whole ecosystem growth.
Yeah, that's really great. I love the democratization that this technology provides, and a lot of people who are not able to get access to certain things now can and just simply by having a smartphone and internet connection they can participate. So it's really great. Obviously, you guys have a lot going on, a lot of developments. Anything you can share that's on the roadmap. I know some things may be under NBA and waiting for pr release, but what can we expect in the next six months, or.
We have a lot going on and we're just very focused on execution. Tony being listed, we have to be a bit careful, you know, in terms of what we do say, but it's fair to say that in terms of the stated strategy with regards to XRP, you know we are going to be adding to reserves. We're not going to do it slavishly. We're going to do it in a smart way. And we've got a very experienced CFO, David Mansfield ex Goldman's ex Checkie Morgan, very disciplined guy.
So we'll be judiciously building our x RP reserves. And then we've already started to look at investing and starting due diligence on DeFi projects and solutions that are part of Ripple's ecosystem, but also with regards to some of our existing businesses as well leveraging you know, XOPPL and the ecosystem. So stay tuned that there will be a lot of a lot of news, a lot of developments that will share.
That's exciting. I can't wait, and I know there's a lot of x RP holders and people in the x ORP army who are uh, you know, really excited about this and watch this unfold and come to fruition. So really, really great stuff, Kevin Adam, I love it. Thank you so much for taking the time to discuss this, and you know we can do a round two as things progress.
Sounds good, Tony, thanks again for having us on.
We appreciate it. Thanks thanks for having us, Donny, have a great day.