It isn't easy to launch a stable coin.
You've seen a lot of people launch stable coins and it's hard for them to get to scale because there is an embedded network of that and so you have to think long and hard about whether you want to do it yourself or could you potentially use somebody else's or potentially do something that well, let's say the community coin, which is something we just launched last lead.
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You, great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Charles. The last time we spoke, as we were talking before the recording, was in twenty twenty two. Very different environment, definite a different time in the market, right, but it seems brighter days are here and ahead of us. Are you surprised by the growth this acid class and industry has seen. With ETFs, the stable coing market is booming and much more well.
I mean, things have changed dramatically in the last six or eight months, and I think what really kicked that off was the Bitcoin IPO, which is the ETF launching or ETF's launching and that really I think set the stage for bitcoin to become a traditional asset that could be held by institutions, and it kind of broke things open to a point where it'd be very hard to unwind at least bitcoin. But now we also had bitcoin
ETFs and e ETFs that will be coming. And of course we've now had a change in administration, and this incoming administration is very receptive to crypto and it has taken a lot of least campaign positions that are very
pro the industry. And so from the Bitcoin ETF through to a bottoming out of prices and move forward now to all time highs, lots of exciting projects, stable coins, continuing interaction all the way through to now with the campaign, there's just been a series of positive events that is really changing the backdrop and landscape for crypto, for businesses in crypto, and I think for the operating environment now in the United States.
So Charles Paxos has been a leader in blockchain infrastructure and helping companies launch stable coins and much more. But since I would say twenty twenty two or even twenty twenty three, we've seen a lot of players enter to stable coin market, ripple is going to be around the corner of van k launched a stable coin. There's just
a lot of different folks working on different things. You know, is stable coin if not the I wouldn't say the only, But is it the killer app of blockchain and crypto at the moment?
Yes? The short answer is yes. The reality is everybody.
Wants a dollar. The dollar is a killer product for payments and store value for the average person. Store value, I should say, of course, it depreciates over time, and that's why people on gold or want to on bitcoin. But for the average person anywhere in the world, the dollar is a much better currency than the one that
they're using. And I think what's exciting about stable coins is we're going from solving the use case for crypto native people where you need a payment asset that moves twenty four to seven instantaneously, to solving payment use cases for the general society where they need dollars where they needed to move twenty four to seven. They need to move instantaneously, they need to move cheaply, they need to move programmably, and stable coins to me, really are that
killer app. It's used every single day, it's used in wholesale it's used in retail. It's been used in eighty percent of FX transactions, the dollars on one side of the transaction. So it's really the lingual fronca, if you will, of the financial system. And so having stable coins begin to move from cryptal use cases to everyday use cases, to remittances, to payments to people who are living in countries where you can't get dollar bank accounts is a
tremendous innovation. And you're just at the very beginning, because you're talking about not just one hundreds of billions, but you're really talking about tens of trillions of dollars. If you look forward five or ten years, it's hard to imagine a world where stable coin is not the mechanism
for any FIAC currency to move. Now, maybe that would be stable coins as we understand them today, it could be cbdc's, it could be something completely different, but it's going to be an open system for moving payments because nobody wants the financial system that's stuck on the entrontete.
They want a financial system that's operating on the int and that's what blockchain enables is a safe, secure financial system operating in an open way like the Internet, and that is a real game changer, and stable coins are the mechanism to create that change.
Absolutely, And Charles, I'm sure you've seen and heard about this, but it seems there's more dialogue in DC now as to the importance of a US dollar back stable coin or stable coins in preserving the world reserve currency status, which is the US dollar. What do you think about those conversations that are, you know, kind of unfolding now.
I think it's very important. I think it's an important recognition that stablecoin holders have more US dollar debt than say, Saudi Arabia. I mean, that's enormous statement. It's up I think maybe sixteen or seventeen now in terms of the largest holder would.
The stable coin if it's tect them as one holistic group.
And I think that's important because the US is sharing a lot of debt and it needs holders of that debt. And central banks generally around the world are selling US debt. But central bank selling is not an indication of the demand for US dollars. Retail and even wholesale. There's more demand than ever for US dollars. The average person wants dollars, they can't get it and the reason is the fictional
banking system is operating like the post office. It takes days and days and days for dollars to move, and it's high fees. And that doesn't make any sense because all electronic dollars sit in the bank. We're not trying to move.
Around physical cash.
Why is it taking as long as a physical movement mechanism like the post office?
But it is. And really, blockchain.
Is now enabling your money to move at the speed of the internet, just like anything else. Now, don't get me wrong. Money is valuable and is regulated, and so you have to have an.
Overlay that's put into place.
But fundamentally, it's just like moving an email, and you can put the right structures in place so that it can move like an email yet have other protections. And the way the banking system and a payment system is operating today, that's not the case. And we've put certain abstractions in place, but generally, if you want to move money overseas, it's many days. And if you want to move money between someone who doesn't have a bank account and you, you're going to pay big fees because there's
remittances and last miles. The way it works today is anybody with a smartphone can now have a wault.
And the fascinating thing is, in fifteen.
Years, the penetration rate of smartphones is eighty five percent of the world's population. Meanwhile, underbanked and unbanked people still represent about forty tho's somewhere around thirty five to forty percent of.
The world's population.
So the penetration rate of smartphones is now higher than people getting out of put banking services, and banking has been around for centuries, and it just shows you the distribution mechanism for US dollars has not kept up with the demand.
People want the product in a different way.
And by the way, if the US dollar doesn't provide that, people are gonna have to go get it somewhere else because the demand is so much. That's where people might use digitized goal, or they use bitcoin, or they can use a CBDC from China or some other country. People need a payment mechanism that can solve the problems in their daily lives, and the way the dollars operate today it doesn't do that.
But stable points offer the capacity for the dollar to do that, and.
That's really positive for the dollar in general, you know you have to have distribution for a great product, otherwise you know you're going to fall behind and you're going to face the innovator's je Lama and someone's going to come in and they're going to disrupt you.
Yeah. Absolutely, well put and you know we're headed to a more digital world, not a less digital world. And to your point smartphone penetration. I've seen people in developing countries that have a smartphone. They don't even have a computer, but have a smartphone. And the way people transact now it's digital payment. They want fast, cheap, easy to use and obviously there's a demand for the World Reserve currency.
So you're spot on there. What are your thoughts on stable coin legislation that is being worked on here in the United States? We saw the EU pass a version that kind of disrupted a bit of what Tether was doing there and they're positioning in the EU. What are your thoughts and all of that.
Well, the US has a number of different bills on the stable coin side, some in the Senate and one that has passed through the House Financial Services Committee, and that one is something that was very strong in support and it creates a steal a clear state pathway for firms to issue stable coins.
The reason I think.
That is so important is because fundamentally, stable coins are really not risky, and they're really not all that scary. There are six point six trillion dollars of money market fonts. There's also six point three trillion dollars of banking assets that doesn't.
Even go to a Federal Reserve regulated institution.
So you have thirteen trillion dollars of either money market funds or banking assets that doesn't have Federal Reserve oversight, and yet everything is fine, and stable coins are safer than money market funds, at least when you issue them like TAXOS does, through a trust company or a ring fence issuer, like we do in both ABADAVII and Singapore. That means if anything happens to paxos, your assets can return to you immediately. They are separate from our operating business.
They are held in client name, bankruptcy protected. Something happens, you get it returned, and that's safer than any other type of financial asset, and so it's safe for that. A money market fund doesn't exist today, and it's certainly safer than having money in the bank where you only are protected up to your FDIC insurance loan. So there's thirteen trillion dollars and they're not overseen by the FED. We don't think that stable coins need to be overseen
by the FED. They just need to make sure that you have a clear set of frameworks that everyone has to follow, like Singapore has done, like Abudabi is done, like New York has done, because buying key bills and putting them in a vault is about the safest thing in the world, and then taking those tea bills and creating a stable coin on a blockchain is also really very simple to do, especially if you have an oversight from a regulator and if you're following the right reserve requirements.
All the things you need to do.
Now, Europe has codified legislation as well, as you point it out, and that's something that we're also going to comply with. What's unique about Paxos is that we have a primary regulator that oversees each one of our stable coins in New York, in Singapore, or abad Abi, and that's not true for either Circle or Tether. I'm not saying that there's something wrong with their product. It's just that they don't have a regulator, they don't have a
regular that oversees the issuance. So that makes it a little bit trickier when you're trying to comply with different j stiction's rules, because you've got to follow the rules of your home regulator, and then you also want to follow the rules of a regulator in the market that are operating in, and so we're working on that. I think it's good to have a set of rules, you know, I think certain ones were more supportive of than others.
But from the very beginning we've been regulated.
We've first got a New York Trust all the way back in May twenty fifteen, the first trust in the whole country that was approved to operate in crypto watching.
So we've clearly asked.
For permission, not for forgiveness, and we've not just done that in the US and around the world.
And so we're all for it. But you know, not all regulation is created equal. Not all regulation promotes a.
Healthy functioning market, and that's what we want to make sure exists.
Talk to us a bit about the issuance process and what the regulators want to see is a kyc AML. Also that you have the respective reserves and there's a one to one correlation, so to speak.
I think those are the key outlines. They also want to make sure you have the right operational procedures. So what are in your reserves?
How are you making sure that those reserves equal the number of tokens, so it's one to one, backed and backed by what and back where what jurisdictions are held in. And then when you have customers using the product, who are those customers and what are they using it for?
And these are the key components.
And then how do you make sure that operationally you can handle different types of risks that might arise, whether for redemptions or creations, for.
Hot minting and cold minting, et cetera.
So there's a whole number of things that you have to do for what seems like a relatively simple product.
And of course you need to make sure that you're monitoring your.
Asset is maintaining its PEG even out in the broader ecosystem. And so that's a whole process that's, you know, takes a lot ofication to.
Do it right. We've done it more than anybody.
We've now issued six different regulated stable coins on different kinds, and we even tokenized US equities in the past. So we've done so much to build a lot of credibility around how to do this, and I think that's part of the reason why we were able to go in and really have a good influence on the policy making process. But all regulators are concerned with some version of you know, reserves, issuance customers.
Earlier, you mentioned that this stable point in the market doesn't necessarily need to have federal reserve oversight. But do you think here in the United States that because there's so much control of the currency and the world being the role of reserve currency as well, that they may want to plug in to your infrastructure or even to different blockchains to monitor this so they know where the currency is going, how it's moving around the world, and
so forth. Once again, from the government's point of I don't personally agree with her, but you know, I'm thinking about the Treasury and Janet Yellen and these folks, right, maybe part of the problem why they were trying to slow down crypto through regulators is they don't they have a blind spot. They don't know where the currency is going.
Yeah, well, look, ultimately the US government is the issue or of dollars, and it makes sense that they want to know where the dollars are being used. That's a liability of the US government enough taxpayers, and so you know, there's pros and cons around the government being able.
To see where payments are and what they're doing.
That's a different debate from US as an issuer, and not necessarily you know one that is something that we should even be weighing in on. And so we'll follow the right rules around what should the government know, how do you share information, howpan they see information and aggregates, and we'd of course be happy to make that available if that's what is required.
And I think having information sharing totably fine.
I think there are things the FED could do, like, for instance, allowing issuing firms to have master accounts of the FED, which would be like inquidement having a bank account, but having a bank account of the FED. But you just can't go into debt. I mean, we can't be borrowing from the FED, but you could have a bank account there and they there are other countries that have
done that for non bank payment service providers. It's a mouthful, but for instance, the Bank of England has done that where Revolute has an account there, and you know, you could do that and the FED could see then all of the reserves because they'd be sitting in their own bank account against what you're issuing, and it'd be very simple for them to.
Make sure that you're maintaining the peg.
Your liquidity would be perfect, your maturity profile would be exactly perfect. You know, but at the end of the day, if a stable point issue. We like ourselves and for instance, we had a stable point that twenty five billion dollars out of standing at its peak, and we were able to redeem six billion dollars in one day or five or six five billion dollars one day. So you run the right profile, you can manage is it's not all
that complex. You own t bills or overnight repo over clouds by treasuries, and you have an issuance and you know, people can see what it is. We publish down to the QSIP number. You can literally see the exact security that we own. We publish that monthly. You know, it could be done more frequently. I don't know if that's necessarily practical, but anyways, you know, you just can be extremely transparent, and of course it's not a blockchain, so that's all public as well.
So there's just a lot of logic to stable coins.
And I think another thing to really impress upon listeners here is the stable point market is clearly gaining product traction, but it's also clearly very early. What chain is going to scale to the sidal wide level. Nobody knows, None could right now, So nobody really knows. What could you want to use an L one or an L two? Do you create netting layers?
You know?
How are you going to move trailllions and trillions and trillions of dollars in transaction every single day? I don't think we have the right answer for that, yes, but I can tell you the private market is going to iterate and figure that out and feel the need to solve customer problems much better than a mature organization that has historically not innovated at the speed with which the market is moving. And that's why you need the private sector.
That's why you need staplepoint issuers. But why you also want to have a regulatory framework that creates a set of rules but doesn't stifle innovation.
Absolutely. Now you mentioned you know the different l ones and so forth. Last time we spoke, I know you guys were primarily using Ethereum as your l one to issue these stable coins. Have you expanded to other blockchains like Solana and so forth?
We have expected.
We have expanded to Solana, Arbitrum, We're working on a Stellar and Polygon. There's a a whole number of chains that we're going to be issuing on over the next six and twelve months.
You know, there's always a tension.
Between issuing on the chain versus making sure that there's enough activity on that chain to warrant all the controls they need to put into place. And again, because we're regulated, we go to our regulators and we talk to them about the chain. We get it approved as an issuance mechanism, you know, And that's different from a regulator along someone to own the token of the chain.
This is about enabling issuance onto a chain.
And I do think that, you know, it should probably be a little bit easier to issue regulated dollars on more chains.
We just saw a.
Bid all get issued on a whole number of different chains as an example, and I think that makes sense. You know, Tether and Circle are on all kinds of chains. But again, they don't have a regulator that they have to go to in order to get approval. We do, and so that is oftentimes really the gating factor for us, making sure that all of the investments we have to make in order to issue is commensurate with the amount of activity that we're going to see.
But I do think that.
There's so many different chains that people are on and experimenting with and using cross chain swaps, and there's a kailorization that's happening for stable coins and stable coins that are then being wrapped into other types of stable coins.
It's just proliferating at an enormous rate because.
You're able to customize, and you know, people customize their credit cards in a million different ways. What do they look like? What's going on? Why wouldn't they want to customize on their own chain?
And they do.
Now, you guys help PayPal to launch pyu as the how did that relationship come about and how how how did you end up getting the execution of this going well?
Pyu see is something that's very exciting for us as the issuer, and that means in the background, we are running the compliance, we're running the reserves, we're running the technology, we're running the operational procedures, but it has PayPal's name on it, and they are the distribution partner with their name, you know, this is their asset. They can go distribute as they would like. This is very similar to how white label credit cards work. There's so many institutions that
have a credit cards. Almost none of them do it in the background. They utilize other services like Alliance Data Systems or City Group or whatever. And me, have you heard of some of these companies, probably, And yet they exist and they provide this white label service.
And that's what we've done here.
We have done other white labels in the past, the finance and others. And to me, this is a really interesting strategy for a company that has a big system, certainly paypals amongst the biggest systems, because they have a con sumer wallets both on the PayPal and the Venmo side. And then they have merchants that they.
Solve transaction processing for and they do that through brain.
Tree and PayPal and otherwise, and so they have both sides.
And some of the biggest costs for them is.
Their network costs and if they can get their customers to be able to pay merchants directly. In stable coin, you change your cost curve substantially. And now PayPal ultimately has their own strategy for how they want to handle this, but I think you know clearly it's indicative that stable coins have an important place in the payment ecosystem for someone like PayPal to decide to adopt.
No, they've been a first mover.
They offered crypto to their customers years ago coming out of the last bear market, and then they launched pyos during this past bear market, both times essentially marking the bottom. So they've done some really great innovative things in the crypto ecosystem, recognizing how this is going to be the future and it will change cost curves, delivery mechanisms, the way in which customers have a daily interaction, and in a very important way.
And they're not the only one. We have these conversations with companies almost every.
Day, who do you want to do a stable coin or do you not want to do a stable coin?
And that's a tricky thing because it isn't easy to launch a stable coin.
We've seen a lot of people launch stable coins and it's hard for them to get to scale because there is an embedded network eff and so you get to think long and hard about whether you want to do it yourself or could you potentially use somebody else's or potentially do something that almost looks like the community coin, which is something we just launched last week.
Yeah, So on that note is that the Global Dollars thing coin news where it's backed by robinhood crack a crack in Exchange and some other folks like Galaxy Digital exactly.
And so the way we've set that community coin out is that there are two elements. One is that you have the actual regulated token USDG issued out of Singapore.
It's a dollar stable coin.
It's issued by a ring fence entity, so then it doesn't do anything aside from issue, and it holds dollars in key bills and overnight repo, so extremely secure one to one backs. And it's a traditional dollar stable coin that is creudentially regulated by a primary regulator, which is the Montery Thornia Singapore.
And we earn a fee as.
The issue and that's to management fee, and so that's the token. Then there is the network, which we're calling the Global Dollar Network, and that's actually open for any institution or company to join, so anybody can join. The launch partners were robin Hood and Anchorage, crack in Galaxy, Bullish Neuvey. If you notice there are fintech firms, there are payment companies, there are exchanges, there are custodians.
Anybody can join.
And the concept here is if you're a member of the network, almost all of the interests that.
We earn on our reserves is return to.
The network members, and that's based on assets under custody as well as net minting, as well as accepting the stable coin. And so people can earn interest in rewards by any of these different activities, and you're not just limited to one thing of holding balances. It could be that you're growing the usage of the network by doing a lot of net minting or by receiving the stable coin in as a payment mechanism, and so we also reward that as well.
But again, anybody can join an open network.
All the economics are returned to the network itself.
We are simply the issuer.
We're also a member of the network, but they're suffered and it's meant to be suffered.
So what would be the benefits of this network if I'm a let's say I'm Microsoft, right versus launching my own staplecoin versus joining this network? Is it kind of metcaps slow becomes stronger, there's more trust and having more institutions, there's more eyeballs on this, and maybe I get a larger network effect.
Well, there's generally, I think two zero to one problems than anyone faces, and then I want to stay one.
The first zero to one is can you get your internal system to be able to recognize and.
Use your new asset that you just created and embed it really well within your systems? And then can you also go out into the broader world and get it embedded and you is on a broader basis. And what we found is that those two problems are complex to solve, even.
For very sophisticated institutions.
And if you're smaller, you know it might be easier for you to solve your own network problem, but harder to solve the external network problem. If you're bigger, you know you have more weight, but your internal network problem is quite significant, and getting the external one is still meaningful.
And that's the whole point of the Global.
Dollar network is everyone is working together. The network is an open network, so everyone can come in, and so you of course might still want to have your own stable coin.
And this is not exclusive. You can still use other stable coins.
But the point here is that everyone is being rewarded collectively, and as the network grows, that collective pool gets bigger and bigger as it gets allocated. So you're getting, i think from everything that we see, actually better economics by being part of a network like.
This than you would if you just ran your own.
That's not necessarily always going to be the case, but I think that's generally the case, and.
That's why a lot of these institutions join.
You know, I think that they look and they thought about where what doesn't make the most sense for their businesses, and these are still very significant, you know size institutions, and for them being part of this network was I think their answer.
Yeah.
Absolutely. Is there a cap to the number of participants that can go on this network or it's you know, unlimited to a certain degree.
It's unlimited and everyone has the same terms. So that's the great thing about it. You join, if you do a lot of activity, you can make more than someone who does a little bit of activity, and anybody can come on board, and so or different tiers for activity, but everyone has the same term.
The whole point was this isn't about somebody owning it.
It's about the users getting the return from the work that they put in and from the usage.
That they do.
Why is Singapore not the US.
Well, Singapore is someplace that has put together a framework where it makes a lot of sense and it's.
Very easy to do.
You know, this is something that's a global asset that's used globally. Singapore is a global financial hub. The reality is the US hasn't put into place a stable coin framework yet, and so you know, we're trying to really think innovatively about, you know, where can we operate that will create the largest pool of potential users, because ultimately this is a global business.
Stable coins are a global asset.
And you know, I think there's a really important place for the US to play in this. But we need regulatory certainty, regulatory clarity, regulatory consistency to be able to invest not for just the next six months, but the next year, the next five years, more important, in the next ten years. This is what we're going to do for you know, for decades. And so when you think in those types of timeframes, it's it was hard to do that in the United States, where.
We just don't have that.
Yeah, absolutely makes sense. But I love this idea. Charle's uh, Like, would I feel more comfortable using a stable coin where all these participants well known names like Robin and I use Robinhood, I've used kracking, I know about Galaxy Digital, Mike Novograts and so forth, having these folks backing the network and you know, monitoring, so to speak, would I feel more comfortable absolutely versus one institution stable coin which may have been launched you know, sooner or I should
say recently. So I love this idea well.
Also, what's really important is because it has a primary regulator. If something happens to us, your assets get a return to you. They are your assets. Every other stable point is sure, and there are, I guess some who launch out of trust, but of the major ones. You are a creditor of an issuing entity. You're not the owner
of the assets. You are lending money to these institutions, and of course it doesn't mean that they can't pay you back, but if something that was alread to go wrong, it could take you a long time before you get paid back. In this case, it is set up where we have a ring fence entity, the money can be returned to you. It's creating regulatory certainty, it's creating financial certainty. It's creating also I know this is sometimes a little obscure, but it's creating accounting certainty.
What exactly is it that you have?
And all those things come together to create a trusted stable point that can scale to what I think is socidal wide levels. You know, we're not just thinking, you know, how can this work at one billion or ten billion?
But how does this work at trillions?
Absolutely? Now I read that this is launching an etherorem, I'm assuming the planet is to have it go to other chains as well, eventually, exactly.
The first place we've launched is Ethereum. We're ready to start rolling this out on other chains. We've already issued our other stable coins on other chains, so it's just a question of sequencing.
I have a question. This may seem like a weird question, but I'm very curious about it, and I think you touched on it. How do stable coin issuers like a PayPal or USD how do they make money? Is it interests on the reserves, the t bills and also fees on the transaction fees on the blockchain.
Yeah, I think there's a couple of ways you could earn it. Not every single one does the same. In our case, we are earning an asset management fee, so we are managing the reserves. We're taking an asset management You could instead of earning an asthmatic feed, just earn all of the interest on the reserves, and so you earn the interest. You're not taking a fee per se, You're just keeping the interests. Another mechanism could be certain
types of transaction fees. We don't happen to take any, but for instance, you could charge a redemption fee, so you come to redeem and get something and there's issuers that are charging five or ten basis point redemption fee. You could also charge a minting fee. You could charge certain transaction fees so you know that you're doing You could charge not necessarily even for any type of issuance and you're just charging it on infrastructure that you're providing API calls.
So there are.
Different mechanisms that you could do. I think what we've tried to do is think about where is the puck going, how do you run towards where you think the ball will be. And I think it's hard to imagine from a historical analogy standpoint, an issue where keeping all of the interest it just doesn't make any sense to me. The whole point of stable coins is that you democratize access to the dollar.
Very powerful, very useful.
But once you democratize access to the dollar, it's almost immediately after that that the question becomes, how do you democratize access to the risk free rate? How can you make it so that anybody can get the risk free rate? Because frankly, everybody should be able to get the risk free rate. Why shouldn't everybody be able to get the same return on T bills that institution can get? Now, you can if you go to a money market fund, but not if you're keeping your money in something that's
transaction enabled. Today, if you kept your money in the bank, you're getting zero to two percent interest. The wholesale rate is, let's say five percent. In what world does the retail wholesale spread exist at that wide of a level. You know, you're talking about sixty seventy eighty one hundred percent difference between retail wholesale That is completely anachronistic, and it doesn't make any sense because putting your money in a bank
is not risk free. You have risk by putting money in a bank, whereas with a stable coin you have no risk. The risk is the t bills that are being held in trust. It's very, very tiny in the grand scheme of things. It's the less risky than a bank and less risky than.
A money market fund.
So you have basically the safest dollar in the world paying you potentially the highest return. That's where the financial system needs to go. That's where it should be for everybody. I can get dollars and I can get the risk free rate, and you can completely change the financial system and people's lives. They're financial lives all over the world. That's why everybody wants a dollar. They don't want a paso,
that's the valuing. They don't want any other fiat currency where you have potential political instability.
They want dollars. But they want also be able to get interest on it.
And we have a mechanism for that, and that is actually really good for the US government to be able to issue.
Maybe it's too good because then we can run even bigger deticens.
So that's not necessarily positive, but it's still fundamentally what you want as the reserve currency.
Yeah, that absolutely makes sense, Charles. I know we're bringing up in time, so I want to ask you about your outlook for twenty twenty five. We got a pro crypto president, we had a pro crypto Congress coming in, and there's bills being worked on in the House and Senate and so forth. Are you optimistic that we see you a crypto boom in twenty twenty five and going into the further years, we're going to have.
A cryptal golden age. In my opinion, this is going to be unbelievable. I hope we don't overdo it as an industry, but this is going to be phenomenal in terms of how it opens things up. And the US has been lagging behind, but it hasn't by any way, by any means, completely fallen behind to the point where
I can't recover. And the US puts the right type of incentives in place, and companies like our set where we've been moving jobs overseas, will not necessarily move the jobs back, but we'll invest so much more in the US, and I think that is an exciting opportunity for the whole industry.
For the United States, I think the key thing here is not.
Just having a pro crypto president and a procrypto Congress, but having procrypto regulators. And of course, because you have a pro crypto Congress and pro crypto administration, you'll end up with pro crypto regulators. But it takes time, and that means that it's not going to be a light switch. There are certain things like say SAB one twenty one, some accounting rules or Operation Chow point two point zero that you can try and like you can just reel
that back in. Some things might require legislation. I think that means you're going to be looking probably at the end of twenty twenty five, maybe even beginning of twenty twenty six, for getting a bunch of legislation through. But with all of these pieces in place, you can really open up the floodgates of opportunity of projects in a nation that has been held back really unnecessarily.
Now.
I think the key is just to be making sure that we do it right, because if you overdo it, you see, you know, you sow the seeds of your own demise, and that's not healthy.
But you know, look, I would certainly take this open opportunity in this crypt of golden age all day long over where we just came from over the last two years, which was you know, really a weaponization of the regulatory apparatus against the industry in a really unjust and unfair way.
And you know, we suffered that, but so did everybody else in some different level degree.
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean it was so brutal, but I think the industry came together, you started fighting back, taking cases to the courts, and then obviously spending in the election, and we're seeing a big change.
Now.
What's on Paxos's roadmap for the Reindeer of twenty twenty four in early twenty twenty five, Well.
We've had a lot that we've done so are in this fourth quarter and even the second half of this year. We launch our yield daring stable coin atab Abu Dhabi. It's called USDL Lift Dollar that pays interest daily. We have launched this USDG in the Global dollar network. We've also launched our stable cooin infrastructure product, we power Strike, and that enables someone to be able to pay with a stable coin to a merchant and be able to settle it out, which we do, and we're working on that.
That's called pay ins. We're working on other aspects on payment infrastructure here, and so we have a number of things that we're launching to really improve the user experience and to scale these products, launch on new chains, add more partners.
There's a lot of scaling that we need to do.
We spent all this time building into new jurisdictions and building new products, and we're going to keep launching products. But a lot of it is, you know, how do we keep solving our customer problems as fast.
As you can.
It's the only thing that makes you endure is your ability to innovate and keep solving your customer problems because they don't say the same.
That's the nature of the world we live in.
More than any other time, customer problems change fast and you have to respond to that or you're going to get a lot behind.
Charles amazing, and I need to have you on very often because you guys are doing a lot of great things innovating, working with some very big institutions and launching great products. So it's exciting stuff. And thank you so much for joining me.
It's great to be on Tony. It's always a lot of fun talking with you. It's been too long