The ONLY Public Blockchain with Privacy designed for Institutions! with Yuval Rooz

The CEO wants to have very strict control over who are their shareholders.

my favorite is the Treasure Save five. It's a beautifully designed and easy to use hardware wallet guys, and it's my go to and they support a variety of coins, all your top crypto tokens, your big coins your x rp Ethereum, Solana and much more and even new coins even black Rocks Biddle token, So they support coins on the institutional side where you have tokenization of different assets and much more. And they even offer a great service that helps you to get your treasure device set up.

You get one on one customer support from their team, so you can check that out as well. So once again, I'm a big fan of this hardware wallet. So if you'd like to learn more, visit the link in the description. Hey, folks, welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and we are recording at Station three in New York's Financial District. And my guest is you've all Ruse, who is the co founder and CEO of blockchain firm Digital Asset. You've all great to have.

up and how'd you get into the blockchain space?

core business. Now, DERW is a trading firm, and today it's much more than just a trading firm. They trade pretty much every asset class, but they also make investments, they do real estate, they do a lot of things. But roughly at the year that we started the ventures, team Dew start making markets in bitcoin and that's how you know, Cumberland got started Cumberland Mining and already in twenty thirteen, remember, we started looking at investments in the space.

I think I led around in a company that wanted to allow credit card purchases of bitcoin in twenty thirteen. Wow, so early, way too early, way too early. But yeah, I mean that's that was just kind of the foray into the space. And then just started thinking about the space more generally. We started thinking about what would clearing for bitcoin look like twenty thirteen, fourteen, Yeah, all kinds of things like that, And yeah, that's that's just how I got into the space.

this industry as a natural evolution of financial markets?

them will say we are the new financial rails. And the aha moment or the point where you get excited is if you actually start thinking about what does it mean to do a securitized loan in the real world? And for those that don't know, what is a securitized loan is I want to get a loan, and in return for that loan or to secure that loan, I give some kind of an asset to kind of guarantee the loan in case, you know, I don't make good and the loan. The best example that most people would

know about is a mortgage. A mortgage is a securitized loan. You effectively pledge your title of your house that if you don't repay the mortgage, the lender can can take over your house and hopefully sell it and cover cover

the loan. And that's just one example, but there's there's many other examples, and and those things usually require you know, lawyers and back office and middle office and just quite an enormous amount of costs associate, and then you look at ave and you're like, oh, I'm just going to pay a few pennies dollars to pay for gas fees, and voila, I perfected a security into a secured you know,

secured loan. So I think that, like, if you just look at the chasm that exists between these two examples, this is kind of what we wanted to feel like. Our view is that's where tradify and crypto come is really just saying like, can we actually do all of this activity that we do today at a fraction of the costs and when the front, when the cost goes down, are we introducing new products that till today we just couldn't even imagine would be financially feasible to do?

global as well? Because certain assets are not accessible to certain people in different countries or jurisdictions, but if you put them in a tokenized format, it brings in more liquidity, more bridges, and so forth.

Put that aside, like you're actually trying to do all the activity according to the rules, like because I think that there's there's a lot of regulatory arbitrage that happens in the space, and there's no there's no necessarily a view. But even if you're trying to do things in a regulatory compliance manner, if you just take some kind of a developing country, the amount of cost that it would take you to actually offer the product is again extremely expensive.

And that's back to my point about financially feasible. So the short answer to your question is absolutely, yes, it does break the barriers, but I think it comes from the same place. I think that the cost of distribution as a result of this technology goes dramatically down right as a result of how easy it is to do things that that by itself allows many more people that till today we're not able to make investments in all kinds of assets. Now it's possible. I'll give another example,

even within the United States. I mean, there are a lot of products that when you actually start thinking about what is the cost of putting a trade purely from a processing perspective, unless the trade is in significant amount of dollars, it's just not The economics is not there.

So again, the reason why you know, Robin Hood and the likes were able to offer you know, zero commission trades and equities is because equities have become so efficiently the trading a thousand shares versus one hundred shares versus fifty shares versus half a share. From a marginal cost perspective, we're just the same. So you know, you could actually, again, like I said, come up with new business models that till today, we're just not feasible. So yes, it breaks

the barriers internationally. But I actually think that there's a good amount of asset classes or use cases even within the United States that today would not be very accessible to a lot of people, that potentially a few years from now would be very much accessible.

tokenized and people being able to invest in that.

There are many companies in the private space that, technically speaking, if you compare them to a lot of publicly traded companies, are way more valuable, have much more revenue, many more clients, and yet they are all still private. And the question is why. And there's many reasons why. One of them could be that the CEO does not want to have secondary shares trading. The CEO wants to have very strict control over who are their shareholders, right like, There's many reasons.

So just because I tokenize a private company doesn't mean that I have changed the paradigm of why that happened. So that's why I come at it from. We want to make transactions from a cost perspective as close as possible to zero, and it opens options to do things that today would be very expensive. And your example was

a very good example. So if the owner of the Empire State Building wanted to allow random Joshmo being their owners and wanted to allow very easy, simple cheap trading around ownership of Empire State Building, it's a great opportunity and you could do that. Then you could access liquidity globally in all of the things that we just discussed.

But it's because the owner of the Empire State Building wanted to do that, right, And I think that sometimes people think that it's like the reason it's not happening, it's because it hasn't been tokenized yet, and that's just not true.

is there a supply demand for it? I think that maybe the positive side of the argument is I think that if you look at composability and some of the business, this goes back to the business model, right, Like, if you create something like a token, it's not just the fact that you could buy and sell the asset more efficiently, but now I can actually pledge maybe my ownership of the Empire State Building is collateral against the loan, and I can do a lot of other things that it's

just beyond just trading. So I think that there's there is a lot of positive on one side. I just I'm just saying like a lot of times the owners of these assets or these companies look at the whole equation and it's not just because of tokenization that they didn't do something like a private equity firm could allow their LPs to trade their shares or their LP holdings if they wanted. I don't think that that's a very complicated,

complicated thing to do. Yet they haven't done that, and in many cases there are reasons why they haven't done that, and it's not just because blockchain wasn't available.

why you decide to start to firm and what your mission is.

one spectrum data. Data is becoming kind of like the new asset class, and data only exists for the most part in digital form, but all the way to commodities, right, like even commodities, right Like, you're not you're not going to today. I mean you trade commodities, you know, exchanges, you're not actually moving the physical asset. In some cases there's physical delivery, but most of the activity that happens

does not happen. So our view is that everything will become a digital asset, and you know, we want it to build a chain that will accommodate heterogeneous set of users and applications. And I think that that's very important because I think the crypto approach till today was we're just going to tell the world how it should operate and either you fit into that into that mold or you owned and as a result of that, it really kind of created not that you don't have a heterogeneous users.

You do have heterogeneous users, but the way they use chains is very homogeneous, which means that if I'm regulated or I need privacy, I really have to do a lot of things off chain because I don't have a solution for it.

innovations happening, such as zero knowledge proof where you can use certain public blockchains and have that in place. Do you think it's not up to part yet? That's why you guys built a Canton network.

for the technology. I think that our view is if you take zero knowledge proofs as they are, which is effectively a black box where you just trust the output without having a need to look at the inputs. That's our interpretation of what zero knowledge is is that if you are a regulate identity, I just don't see how within the next five years they get comfortable saying I'm just going to accept that I don't get to see the activity that has happened. Let's say I'm a stable

coin provider. I don't get to see if there's aml or activity happening in my black box. I'm just accepting that all the transactions are fine, or I don't know if there's a bug inside my black box because the output just keeps on saying that everything's fine. And that

happened already twice it happened. See cash had that bug, Solana had that bug, And I just think that it's a serious risk and the integrity of your ledger if that's if that's the case, So we just we just wanted to come up with a different architecture that says that to us, privacy is not how do you hide the inputs from everyone, but it's actually how do you

have a disclosure on a need to know basis? Meaning if I need to see the inputs because I actually I have a regulatory requirement to verify that there's no AML happening, or I need to see the inputs because I'm an issue of an asset I need and I need to make sure that there's integrity for the asset that I am supposedly the issuer of. Then I need to see all the transactions. I cannot have someone not

I cannot not see the transactions. Or if I need to disclose some of the activity to regulator because I now want to comply with the Genius Act or with MICA, I can do that. And for the most part, what you will see is that a lot of the zero knowledge solutions now are effectively creating some kind of a disclosure mechanism to selected parties. And then I say, well, if you're doing that, why are you using zero knowledge.

So it's not that we're against the technology. That we're actually very much in favor of the technology when it comes to scaling. That's actually a really good place to

use the technology. It's just that our view is that if you want to have Ledger integrity under all scenarios, or you want to comply with the regulation, you need to have selective disclosure, and we think that you can design an l one protocol with selective disclosure without having to use zero knowledge, which is expensive computationally does not have a general purpose programming language, like there's all kinds of things and you could just do something today.

want to bring large institutional players with you. And so far it seems like it's working, but the consensus of the network is kind of broken into two layers, and that's kind of how you solve for privacy. There is what we would call the supervalidators on canton, which is the equivalent of miners or validators on ethereum. They're blinded

to the transactions that they're processing. So their job is to timestem transactions, be censorship resistance meaning no validator can sensor transactions, and a guarantee that all stakeholders to a transaction have received their transaction. So the reason for that is that let me actually go to the next layer of consensus and then and then we'll come back. Then there's a second layer of consensus, which we're saying if you are the stakeholder of the transaction, it's really the

end parties that need to agree on the business logic. Meaning, if if I want to process a stable coin transaction and I have a sender or receiver sending a coin to one another, most people that hold the coin don't really need to know that that transaction took place. They don't care that right, it's not relevant to them, it doesn't have an impact. What they want to know is

that they have consensus between them and the issuer. So in that case of the transaction, there will be consensus that this is a valid transaction between the issuer of the stable coin, the sender, and the receiver, and the network can dynamically create these subgroups of consensus across the stakeholders of a very specific transaction. Maybe the best analogy for that is think about like the network is creating

dynamically these L twos just for a specific transaction. So it just says, hey, just for this specific transaction, the three of us, the four of us, the ten of us, the thousand of us need to agree that this transaction is a valid transaction, right, and canton can just dynamically create these groups all the way to everybody on the chain. So you could actually have public data where you're saying everybody needs to agree. And this is kind of similar

to what happens and the thing or on bitcoin. But the idea is that and this is where I go back to my point about heterogeneous is it's not a one size fit all and it's not kind of static. Create an L on L two, and now I have the group within this L two that don't have privacy between one another. The reality is when you actually look at the real world, the layers of privacy or the privacy perimeter changes even through the life of a transaction.

I'll give you an example. When you send money, generally speaking, you the sender and the receiver would know about the transaction. The payment processor would know about the transaction. Let's say you use the bank. The bank would know, the cender, the receiver. Right. But then there's this line in the US, it's called the Bank Secrecy Act that says, if you send over ten thousand dollars, now the regulator needs to know about the transaction. So here I gave you an example.

How yeah, most times only three people would know about the transaction, but under circumstances, circumstances something you need for people to know about the transaction. So how do you create something that is more dynamic that rather than the chain is like I said, very static model. It's actually the smart contract that tells the chain. I need you to change the privacy model or the consensus dynamically based

on the state of the transaction. That's what really what Canton does under the hood is the first layer of consensus is giving you the timestam guarantee, the censorship resistance, but also this guarantee that I have disclosed the information of the transaction to all the stakeholders that now need to agree on the consensus, do we agree in the

business logic of the transaction. And that's how the miners or the supervalidators in Canton are actually blind to the transaction that are kind of like similar to the ISP's on the Internet. They're just managing forwarding transactions for you and giving you that guarantee.

dynamic transactions. Are they temporary or can they be open for a long period of time?

Sachs to Dodel Securities. Tell us about that fundraising and you know why did they take a bet? Is it because they see what you're doing and they agree with the vision and they want to participate it.

and the applications. It's not from the infrastructure providers, right, Like it's you know, it's not the it's not the validator on ethereum that goes to conferences and think about new business model. It's right, it's it's Stanni from Ave who goes at I just was at a Goldman conference with him, so shout out because what he built is amazing. But like he goes to conferences, he thinks about new

business model. He pays for developers to build a new smart contract, like he's doing a lot of the hard work. And I think that like if people like him did not exist, there is no value to an l one, right. So the toconomics of Canton in the early days rewarded the infrastructure providers because if they were not there, you

wouldn't have the infrastructure. But actually over time the toconomics shifts to reward the users and the apps, so most of the block rewards would actually go to the user and the applications that generate the activity on the network. And I think that that's you know, really helping the organic growth of Canton because a lot of businesses are saying, well, if I'm going to build a business, to think about it like interchange on credit cards or right, like so

MasterCard and Visa don't get most of the interchange. It's the card issue where it's the card processors those that actually generate the activity that get most of the interchange. And Visa MasterCard benefits because it's a it's a scale business, right, so there's a ton of volume, but they are not the ones you know, going and making the activity happened

at a high level. So that's I just think was a very unique, unique approach and you know, it's it's evolving and it's it's interesting to see people really trying to take advantage of it in the Canton ecosystem. To the fundraise, so we actually raised. The initial announcement was one thirty five, but then easy uh CZ's family office joint so it's one forty five was the official official number and it was led by Cumberland and Trade Web

that's who led it. But but the likes of Citadel Securities, Goldman, BNP I, MC, Optaverer, DTCC Circle, Paxos Republic and sorry

for Lot. Yeah, those that have missed have participated. And I think that what they've seen and you know, not going to talk on their behalf, but I think what they've seen is again kind of back to where we started this is there's now activity that is happening on Canton that is really kind of like this intersection of we can bring crypto based activity into trad fi markets and when you think about that, like just yesterday we announced with DTCC the first you know, unchained treasury and

I'm saying it very carefully not tokenized treasury, but it was a repot transaction on a Saturday between US Treasuries and USDC on an application built by trade Web. So trade Web effectively built like you could think about it like a uniswap or whatever, a dex or however you want to think about it, they build effectively a very you know, very efficient way to swap assets. It's really

a securitized loan that's a repot transaction. And now a market maker can go into the weekend with a yield bearing asset not tokenized meaning they're not taking some intermediary counterparty risk of a broker dealer that token is, but actually a treasury held at the DTCC holding the yield into the weekend, and if now suddenly there's some spike in crypto market in real time, they can convert their US treasuries into a stable coin, do their cryptoactivity, and

when they're done with it again, you know, return return the long back and get their US treasuries and you could really like really like laser precision manage the yield on your asset and then when you again take a step back, because we're kind of very like day to day looking at crypto market, but if you just look at the US Treasury market from a repo perspective, I think it's about five trillion dollar volume a day, just put it in perspective, and I think globally it's about

ten trillion a day. So I just think that when you start kind of saying, like, hey, if I can ring you know the avis or the decks as the uniswaps to these kind of volumes, I think that that's really the big opportunity. And this is why you're seeing everybody's talking about token is securities now, and that's that's really where where I think that the real, the real pot of gold is.

may not matter to you because you're working with institutions, not the general public, but may say, Okay, I value decentralization, You're not decentralized enough. But it doesn't. But again go back to my initial point, that's not necessarily valid. If the institutions have the consensus.

So I don't know. I mean, we run today, it's probably close to thirty supervalidators that are all equal in importance. There is no supernodes that you know are much more important for the consensus. There is no proof, you know, proof of steak like I matter more. So I don't know. I mean you could, you could, you could, you could go into this rabbit hole, and I don't because what

does it matter At the end of the day. What people are looking for is a system that works, uh, and I think will give you know, the value that people are looking for and the soundness of the assets that exist there, and that, to me is a much more important thing. And that's why you know, the un chained security to me is an important deal. Is we're not tokenizing anything, You're actually holding the asset. You don't need to say, what do you have in your broker dealer?

Do I now need to wait for you know, PwC or Deloitte to do an audit of what you have in off chain in supposedly your broker dealer account and do I trade a derivative on the product or do I not? Is it a total return swap? Is it a future contract? Like? What is it exactly? And I think that for the most part, the retail client they

just want to have access. I think the problem is if something were to blow up, and there have been a few RWA projects that I won't mention that did blow up because they made a lot of statements about what it is that you're trading and then you found

out and that wasn't really it. So you know, I think that, you know, critics of decentralization for the most part, are coming at it from what bags they hold angle and not necessarily from being really pureist about the centralization, because I will tell you the crypto community right now is who arab behind a lot of L one announcements or L two announcement that have a centralized sequencer controlled by one company, Yet they don't go and you know, scream decentralization.

can use the Canton network for is stable coins, it can go through the list of items.

mortgage company. Like, if you look at all of these large institutions, they are in control of a significant amount of assets that if those assets became natively available on chain, a lot of builders can come and build products both for institutional players but also for retail, right, I mean

at the end of the day. I mean, you know, it is large institutions that control the equity market, but retail are very interested in token is securities or on chain securities, however you want to call it, right, So it's not that it's not that we've built this, but believe that at the end of the day, if you can pass the smell test with large regulated institutions, you're also kind of creating a moat around these are where you have the safe assets that it's not going to

have like a rug pool or something like that. Like that, that's really the motivation to go the harder out is because you can create much more longevity and trust trust in it. That's really so listen, I think that you know, we just may the announce it around US treasuries mainly because again more of like the twenty eighty rule, with just twenty percent of participant, you could get an insane amount of volume on chain, which is really what everybody's

trying to do. They're trying to bring as much activity. And I will say that when you look at at institutional use cases to begin with, during bear markets and not just cryptobear markets, actual markets, the repo market is still ten trillion dollars a day. It doesn't go like from ten trillion it goes down to three, you know,

it doesn't happen. So I also think that you create much better longevity to the chain that you are effectively hedging your activity that you're not going to just be like, we definitely want to have retail active on Canton and we want to benefit from, you know, these trends in markets, but you also want to give retail like the confidence that hey, by the way, when bad stuff will happen, and it will happen a question when, right, there's actually

substantial activity that is not going to go away, right because it's still going to be mission critical to some of the players that are participating. So you know, yeah, there is no NFTs or meme coin trading on Canton, not because you can do that, but just we haven't focus and we just didn't think that that is going to be our difference right now.

judge and everything. I personally don't trade meme coins, but not because I have necessarily a negative opinion about it.

this technology, it will allow for twenty four to seven, three hundred and sixty five day markets, no opening or closing, bell nu moral holidays and these things. What is is that the future markets and these different Not every asset will trade like that, but a lot of it will.

on blockchain, everything's going to settle real time. And if you peel the onion a bit and you kind of understand how markets work, you understand that the reason why things are so cheap to trade right now is because market makers are willing to give you really tight spreads, really tight spreads. But you now need to understand what

are the economics for market makers. A market maker is effectively selling you in insurance because they're willing to take both sides of the trade at any given point of time. So they're taking risk on where they would be able to offload the trade. Right, so they're charging you effectively a premium for that risk. That's the insurance. Right, they're charging an insurance premium because they're willing at any given

point I have to take that thing. Now, if you're saying to a market maker that generally speaking will go flat at the end of the day, meaning won't have to settle anything, and therefore, from a capital requirements perspective, it's very efficient, meaning you want them to make the same return on the risk that they're providing you for having these tight spreads, And now you're saying, nah, you

need to have the capital to settle every transaction. Inherently, what I believe will happen is spreads will go wider. That's not a good outcome. You don't want spreads on most US equities to go wider. So this is not me saying that you should remain a TPLESS one or

Tpless two or even t zero. I want to have technology that allows you to settle everything in real time, but also allows you to net transactions once an hour and subtle things once an hour, because maybe that's the right spread between not settling and getting the benefits of netting. So if I'm a market maker, as long as I go flat every hour, I can still run the same business as I run today and still provide these really

tight spreads. And so to me, the reason I stated with I think that you will see activity happening twenty four to seven is we should understand why some of these behaviors in the market, like an auction like clearing and settlement exists. There's actually benefits to these things. And for the most part, you're saying that in crypto, a lot of exchanges don't put every bitcoin transaction on chain.

Why do they not do that, Well, because they don't want to pay the fees for every transaction, right, so they internalize the flow, they net it, and then every once in a while, well they'll they'll put a transaction. And that's kind of my point is like a lot of these financial activities have a reason that some of

them have positives, some of them have negatives. Our view is that that technology will allow you to move value twenty four to seven and we will see how markets evolve as a result of that.

the pipe. So that's I think that when I look at chain Link, I look at them more as the service that they offer, not necessarily intropability with another blockchain, and just thinking about kind of the network that they build, the products that they offer, and what you could do with them. That's more how I look at it. Generally speaking, around intropability, I think, first of all, everybody will have

their own definition of what intropability means. I think for the most part, most intropability stories today are message based. There is no real intropability, Like two protocols at the protocol layer are joined at the hip, which is fine. I think that at the end of the day those solutions, this is not a criticism, So I think that it's really just what is intropability. So chain Link provides, you know, an introhabability solution. You have layer zero, you have wormhol

There's just many, many solutions like that. One of the things that you know, we believe is that when we are asked to do intropability or to consider intropability, it's always what is the business reason to do that. I'll give you an example, if tomorrow one of our institutional players that receives collateral for some of their activities and they're doing the work on Canton said, you know, we're

willing to start accepting Ethereum as collateral. Well, that's a good business case to do a native intropability with Ethereum because I would like for it to have no settlement risk or stuff like that that I can pledge you know, eth as collateral. Right. Like so, I just generally speak and think that the solutions that we have today like chain link are great or layer Zer, they're all great solutions. But at the end of the day, I think that

sometimes people because there's just so many options today. I think the clients I understand why are saying like I'd don't want to make the wrong bet, and therefore, like, can you give me a solution how I can not feel like I'm too married to you and offer me all of these intropability stories, which you know I understand.

But it's just like, as a business, you also need to think about where you drive revenue and growth, and a lot of times you would invest a ton of resources to do introperability without a concrete business case under it. It's just it's just a lot of times will end up in wasted wasted effort.

you mentioned the token is going to be launched later on anything you can share there or still too early.

There's a lot of development work on adding more features, support the complements, whether it's the wallets, the different vendor providers, DeFi protocols that that might be coming to Canton there's now a dex with privacy, so no sandwich order is none of that market manipulation that is happening like, which

I think is like super exciting. So there's there's there's a lot, there's a lot that is coming and you know our you know, our main focus right now is the listing, but also some of the projects that will be and now soon in terms of assets that would be available on Canton.

financial institutions and given your background, your pedigree in this market, are they more open now? Are they more interested, like, hey, we want to learn about this technology. We were looking to build solutions and things like that.

How is the new legislation like is it giving you know, I have to give a lot of credit to the administration and also the regulators that they've brought, which is I think a lot of the institutions that we work with and worked with in the past were always interested in the technology there's a lot of value we can demonstrate through things that have been in production for a while, the efficiencies and the value that it's not just in

crypto like you could actually in real markets significant value. As with the use of the technology, the problem is in the past, they just didn't know, Hey, if I'm going to do this, would I get in trouble just from using it? And I think that you know, the Genius Act and the Clarity Act, that those are all

tremendous and they're great and they're super helpful. I actually think that it's the posture of the administration and therefore of the regulator, in my opinion, that is much more helpful because I think that organizations today, at least what I'm hearing, are almost encouraged to use the technology, where in the past they were scared of even exploring the technology. So what we're seeing is not that organizations are suddenly

interested in the technology. They're actually motivated to do the things that they have been wanting to do for many years. So that that to me is the more exciting things. Yeah, there are some organizations that, purely as a result of what's been happening in markets recently, are now kind of like, Hey,

we need to figure out what we're doing here. But I will tell you, for the most part, we've been talking to most trat fire organizations for the last you know, five six years, and it's it's more of the posture right now that is is much more helpful.

draft doesn't cover everything in the crypto market. So but the posturing is to your point, much better at this point. Yeah, where do you see this asset class in market and

not price prediction? But let's say by twenty thirty, are we seeing trifi institutions running on blockchain rails? Retail also using stable coins to go buy coffee at Starbucks. Maybe they don't know it's being powered by stable coins, but your MasterCard. I just interviewed the EVP of mastercarda digital assets. They're looking to integrate all these things. Is this technology running behind the scenes?

just gets used. You know, in twenty thirty do people do all of the things. I think they're doing it today. It's just question of how much. Right. So when you talk to institutional players today, they still talk about what is their cloud strategy? Does that mean that cloud haven't made it yet? No, It's just that these transformations take

tens of years. It's just that, you know, our attention span have been reduced to a thirty cinc in TikTok or Instagram video, So we think that everything needs to happen in days, weeks, or month, And the reality is things that have been baking for one hundred years are just not going to be unraveled in a single year

even a decade, right, It's just going to happen. So in twenty thirty, the stuff that is happening today will just happen more significantly more, And you're just going to see business models that you know, you haven't thought about, right, Like I always think that, Like to me, the most exciting is to work with organizations that are saying, you know, not how do I put my business on a blockchain? But if my business ran on a blockchain, and I rethink what is my business model? And I think that

that's similar. Thing that happened with the Internet is a lot of companies took the availability of the Internet to say I'm just going to take my business and put it on the Internet. But then there are companies Amazon, Netflix, Facebook, you know, Google that just said like, okay, now there's this thing called internet, can we rethink the business model? And those are today the biggest companies in the world.

I think very similarly, in twenty thirty, you're just going to see companies that we you know, had to either rethink their business model or new entrants that came and said, hey, now that this technology is available and so many people have their hands on it, can I come up with a new business model of something that we have accepted as just kind of granted today. But if you rethink it, I have you know, the next bank of the future.

And you're seeing, you know, you're seeing some of these announcement of a digital asset first kind of bank for example, and things like that, and I don't know if that's going to be successful, but I think that to me, that's the interesting thing of what we're going to see in twenty thirty is what are the new institution or existing institutions that rethought their business model and now we're just accepting that as that's just it.

it's a cost and it slows down the system. But the reality is just if you think about it statistically, if there's a mistake, more than likely, if nine people need to do a process, the chances of all nine of them making the same mistake is very slim. And that's where our conscilliation kicks in. A few of them made the mistake, and a few of them say we think you're wrong, and then they go through the process

of our conciliation they find the mistake. There's an inherent risk in blockchain where because it's a one shared source of truth, if a mistake have entered into the system, we just all accept the mistake as the source of truth. So a lot of we have a few projects where when we are creating the smart contracts that are coming from data from the outside world, we're using AI to kind of give levels of confidence that how we are

creating the smart contract was really high quality data. Right, that's just one on one element and then the other element is well, now things can move in real time, you could make a lot of very exciting, very complex decisions. Right. The surface area of what you can do grows dramatically, and this is where again AI agents can help you make better decisions, but also take advantage of the fact that there's you know, much more things that you can do now in real time.

of the system is just going to grow dramatically. Another thing that people should think about with twenty four to seven is, you know, if there's a run on a bank today, A lot of times those conversations of what do we do with that bank happen on the weekend when everything is closed, Well, what happens now when things are not closed? So the system is going to become much more complicated as a result of a lot of

the positive things that are coming. And I think that that's again where AI can really be helpful.

here for you. First, if you could create your own metaverse, will the theme be damn where would you put your Oculus or Apple pro vision on?