The Bitcoin & Crypto Cycles Have Changed Forever! | Bill Barhydt

go to. And they support a variety of coins, all your top crypto tokens, your bitcoins, your x orpe Ethereum, Solana and much more, and even new coins even black Rocks Biddle token. So they support coins on the institutional side where you have tokenization of different assets and much more. And they even offer a great service that helps you to get your treasure device set up. You get one on one customer support from their team, so you can check that out as well. So once again, I'm a

big fan of this hardware wallet. So if you'd like to learn more, visit the link in the description. Hey, folks, welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and joining me today is Bill Barhd who is the founder and CEO of Abra. Bill, great to have you.

an uptick here at the beginning of twenty twenty six. But I wonder if you can go back to Q four and what happened in October or was that the top of the market for bitcoin.

It always has to pour. So so yeah, I can talk about the liquidity issues and other things happening and expectations and you know why gold was leading, and we've seen this before. It looks a lot like twenty twenty. Actually, you know, if you if you look at what happened back then going into twenty one, gold led the rally, and then going into later that year, you know, crypto took over first Bitcoin, then Ethereum, and then all time and epic run. So so it feels era similar. You know.

Maybe people are a little concerned in the in the broader macro sense about what Supreme Court is going to say about tariffs, but I don't think it really matters at the end of the day. The Fed, the Fed's got a print nobody. I shouldn't say nobody, Uh let me, let me be more precise. Demand for long dated treasuries is probably going to fall this year, which means that the Fed is going to have to accelerate quantitative easing in order to get long term rates down. That's my

kind of base case. That, combined with the treasuries that are already buying, the lower interest rates that we're seeing will probably push push rates lower and dramatically increase the money supply, which will really have an outsized impact on tech stocks. Crypto. I think all coins, particularly the l ones I shouldn't say alquins, the l ones are going to have an epic year, in my opinion, certainly have a you know, better year than last year, which couldn't

have been any worse. So actually that's not true. It could have been worse. But but but I guess if you're holding a large bag of l One's, it probably doesn't feel like it could have been worse. But trust me, it could have been a lot worse. But I think that's in the past now, and I do think we're going to see liquidity driven run where value catches up to price or price catches up to value is more accurate in this case, just based upon the available liquidity.

I think you're going to see stimulus checks from this administration, which is interesting. You know, they're talking about confiscating thirty million barrels of oil to the benefit of both the American and Venezuela and public, which is obviously meant to you know, push rates down to basically create a forecast of GDP growth because there's more cheap oil in the system,

you know. So everything points to all of the things that were teed up in twenty twenty five leading to you know, more money in the so called system in twenty twenty six. And our base case, like I said, is we end up buying a significantly higher percentage of our debt than we have the last couple of years because of you know, higher rates and the desire for FED to shrink their balance sheet. That's in the past.

it does rhyme. There are a lot of people who are saying, what Tony or Bill, what about the four year cycle? What about the number of days and that took place around October? What about the bearish divergence on the weekly chart of the monthly mac D flipping red. So I wonder if I would get you could get your perspective on that, because you have these two things on a scale. Here. I agree with you. On the macro.

All these things set up and it looks like twenty twenty, but yet the charts are screaming, you know, certain things.

that's over now, okay. So that that four year cycle died when we printed twenty five percent of the money supply in eighteen months. We didn't know it at the time, sure, you know, I mean we'd never lived through it before, no one had or no one alive had, and and and so we didn't know. Right now we know, Okay. Second, I would say as it relates to bitcoins four year cycle, which to a degree overlapped with the money supply issues and treasury cycle that I mentioned. I was never a

huge believer. You couldn't deny that there were a few data points that clearly said we were in this kind of you know, sine wave cycle based upon the havings, but the samplings were just too small, right, and and and and so I didn't really care so much about that. I really cared more about the fact that you had limited supply. Uh, you had effectively a deflationary asset that's

being priced in an inflationary asset. When you have those things and you have reasonable, reasonable demand, and you're continuing to price something in the inflationary asset, which is the dollar, the price of the deflationary asset has to go up over time. It just does, right, And and that has to but but but by all viable measures, it's going to go up over time, and that continues to play out.

That is that has been my core thesis for why bitcoin is my personal beta uh and and anything I do in l One's those are venture bets for me, those are long term bets. They could go up ten x. This year, they could go up five x over the next five years. It's all good. Those are venture bets based upon a core thesis that I have around the value of of of block space plus smart contracts, you know, plus decentralization in the new economy. That's that's my personal thesis.

And that's different from sound money, where bitcoin it becomes my personal beta, you know, now and certainly forever more until something better comes along, which I doubt is gonna happen. So so a long winded way of saying, I don't put a lot of stock in the in the in the bitcoin based four year cycle. Never really did, and I've said that, you can go back and check back check me. I've said that many times. I did put a lot of stock in the in the four year

treasury market driven cycle. But but clearly the the Fed killed that, you know, and and there's others that believe I'm not you know, enough of the weeds in in fixed income anymore, but but I you know, others believe that the cycle has just been extended by a year and that the you know, government had hoped that they would be able to uh reset know, long term borrowings or mid term borrowings at better rates, but they couldn't for myriad reasons, and that it's going to happen this year,

come hell or high water. That makes sense to me. But the bottom line is the economy is slowing outside of AI, especially right pretty much everywhere outside of AI, the economy is slowing dramatically. You're you're still seeing lingering layoff effects of the high interest rates post COVID hangover. Everybody points to AI for that. I don't believe that's AI driven at all. I think it's just a hangover

of of FED drinking the balance sheets. And like I said, this administration is doing everything it can to to kind of you know, cataract that with whatever tricks or tools it can bring to bear off of the shelf that it has tag. No taxes on tips, you know, no taxes on Social Security payments would never made sense anyway because you're double dipping. But but but but the point, but the operative point being it's more money in retail and and our economy still retail driven at the end of the day.

to kind of update their mental model. They've been so used to the small sample size of having for your cycles. But it was the primary catalyst was liquidity or even the ism, and that has been delayed to your point, so risk assets or you know, bigcoin, all coins and so forth, even you know, you look at the rustle two thousand and all that has been kind of slowed down a bit. It wasn't a great year in twenty

twenty five. But as those the liquidity and the ism and those things pick up, you'll see those assets follow.

this price expectation. But for the average investor, if you don't have a long term view, which is at least five years, you're you're not doing yourself justice and you're you're basically going to create a lot of heartache for yourself unnecessarily in my opinion, and if you can't look at it from that perspective, mean longer term you need

to write size your allocations in this world. And so so, while I agree with everything you're saying, because Bill's knee deep in the weeds, Tony's knee deep in the weeds, some of our cohort is the average listener may not be. And and my message to them is, look, you know, have a longer term view. Everything should be five year minimum unless you're unless you're really good at trading and speculating and you can get in and out of day training and all that stuff. I you know, I do that.

I don't do it anymore. It's too hard, it's too stressful. It's not even worth it if you look at the returns, it's just not worth it. Right, So, so have a five year, you know, maybe even longer time horizon and accept the fact that you know, we're spending a trillion dollars to service the debt and which is now bigger than I believe in our defense budget, and it's getting bigger, which means more money printing. And so I don't want that to be the truth, but it is the truth.

And so if you have a long term perspective on that, anybody who can afford risk on assets, tech stocks, crypto is basically getting leverage on that system. It may be at the expense of other people who can't, but honestly, right now, as a wealth manager, that's not my problem. My problem right now as a wealth manager is making money for my clients and helping my clients make money, and that's how they should do it in my opinion

as their fiduciary. Right I'm not giving investment advice here, but when I'm talking to my clients, that's what I tell them, right And as an American for everybody else, I hope our government gets a shit together, but I don't think it's going to do.

in the AI world. He was just coming back from the interview he had done with Elon and we had this long discussion about the intersection of crypto and AI, and I, you know, explaining that most of the people who are knee deep in AI right now don't understand where decentralization fits in because they're building data centers the size of an end right so so, but the reality is is that the future of agentic Web or Internet, in my opinion,

is decentralized. And if you have an intelligent conversation with an artificial intelligent bot about conducting transactions, the last thing it's going to want to do is conduct transactions and using an inflationary asset if it's holding that asset for more than a week, because by definition, it's losing value at an exponential rate the longer it holds the asset, which in English means you don't want to use dollars

if you're a smart AI bot. Now, I realize that this is a core thesis for Circle and tether and others going forward, but I'm sorry, but it's just not going to happen.

were already dollars. That's what I'm saying, right, So, I'm talking about future businesses that don't exist that are going to be enabled by the agentic Internet, which is going to be infinitely bigger than today's economy, driven by robotic and all the exponential technologies that I'm that I'm excited about, and crypto plays a central role there. And you're going to see a plethora of digital assets enabled by these systems that are deflationary by nature, Bitcoin being the most

important one. I think Bitcoin could play a significant role. I think Solana and seuey aptos, those type of currencies could actually be used for ephemeral transactions themselves because they're inherently deflationary.

would agree with them on this. I think I think anyway, the long winded way, the long new point I'm making is that I think that there's this coming economy that people don't understand yet that is so massive, uh, that integrates all of this exponential tech, robotics, AI, self driving cars, you know, home automation, all these things are going to be fully integrated into our lives with an AI, you know,

a set of brains. And I think there's going to be lots of them, like lots of parallel matrixes that we have to integrate with. And and crypto is kind of the hard line into those those matrixes. And and I'm here for it, you know. And and it's it's it's so early in understanding that you know, even like the most scalable blockchains we have now are just scratching the surface on the scalability. We need to facilitate transaction

processing for those types of systems. And yeah, I mean, thank god that we have these next gen l ones now that I you know, they're they're awesome.

outlook for this year you know, going back to the thesis of central banks do going to continue printing more liquidity and so forth, and not guaranteed, but we expect risk assets and these projects and all these things to rise. You mentioned l ones. Uh, there's also a big narrative of privacy if you get your thoughts on it, you see it as the next big trade and and what are some of the ones you're primarily focused on.

z cash had an epic run in December. You know that that was remarkable just given the nature of uh, you know, retail excitement, the lack of retail excitement for for z cash for years effectively, right, and and you know, just a few a few tweets pumped the price because all of a sudden, you know, privacy is a narrative, it's a thing, right, And so the irony is is that you know, for me as somebody who came and stayed for the decentralization and for you know, the self

sovereignty and you know, the personal agency that you know that that the crypto model enables and smart contracts enable. Uh so alarady with Bitcoin. Of course, it's cyronic to

me and that this is happening now. But I think you know, I I but direct to your question like that, the Sioux announcement was huge to me, you know, but but I think you're going to see everyone looking at this hard right like ethereums, you know, Metallic Batallics actually had some really interesting commentary lately because kind of in a it's almost like he was in a cave, you know, big Bear in a he's a skinny run but but but you know, big Bear in a cave sleeping for

for a couple of years. But but some of the stuff he's been writing I actually strongly agree with. Now, he's backed himself into a corner with poor technology decisions over the years, but I think they can undo that, and I think they can fix that. But but I agree with the thesis of what he's saying. I think he gets z K at a fundamental level. I think most of the l one you know, core devs get z K and related text at a fundamental level. It's

my background. I mean, I was on the SSL team in Netscape and you know, so that's been a passion of mine since I was a kid, you know. And and so I didn't really have the terminology and the lingo like I do now because of crypto, mostly to explain all of this in a way that the non

techies can appreciate. But when you have technology that enables, you know, a true libertarian self sovereign model that acts as a you know, a sanity check or you know, a liberty check almost on government policy run them UK, which it has for the last several years, you have to be excited unless you're just unless you just just clearly don't get it, or you have no viable assets

or believe you're never going to have any assets. And that's the biggest problem that we face as society today is there's a percentage of the West right that believes that they're never going to be able to participate whatever that means. And that's crazy. It's not crazy that they, well, it is crazy that they believe that, because it's not true. I think we're about to enter an age of abundance

the likes of which humanity has never seen. Right, the last bashion of the rate of poverty in this planet has been going like this, right. You know. Now, now a lot of a lot of socialists would would have you believe that that's not true. I don't know what you can see on my screen, but I'm making a

very you know, pretty much a straight line down. And you know, on the on the chart, on the line chart, not a lot of chart that basically shows where poverty is going, right, I meaning people that live on less than let's say ten dollars a day. We used to call it ten. I think they've raised it. But regardless, the poverty rate has fallen significantly on planet Earth.

part in that to keep hard in that. But you know, if if people believe that they have no money left at the end of the year, there's nothing that VISA can do to give them hope so that they go out and spend more on their visa car right right, and and and so you know, I don't know if I'm making sense, but like I just have this into it that the biggest challenge we're going to have is is that people are losing hope that they're going to participate in this abundant future that's coming. And and maybe

because they don't focus on it enough. Maybe because then the online narratives are so negative. But that's that's it. Just it just blows my mind because anybody who pays attention should be like, Wow, this is like literally the greatest time ever to be alive, except for like next week, right, which is going to be even better, you know, And and and so I think that the pendulum is clearly swinging towards decentralization as it relates to like financial services.

It is not swinging towards decentralization yet as it relates to other types of technology, because they're too expensive and there's no easy way to build decentralized robots and decentralized car fleets and you know, decentralized medicine yet. But I even think that's coming, and and so we have to we have to give people it's incumbent upon anybody who

wants to participate to give everyone else hope somehow. In my opinion, and as a libertarian, that's a tough one because I usually like to think that people will act in their own self interest and then that will create a better economy. But you know, we've we've we've dug this bit of a hole for ourselves, those of us who are believers uh in tech, and and you know, I don't know exactly how we're going to get out of it, but we will.

of the ebbs and flows of human civilization and money and how currencies handle, right. I mean, I think as someone I'm a millennial on the older side, seeing two thousand and eight, seeing two thousand and one, you know what happened nine eleven and so forth, those things were really impactful, not just culturally and society, but financially well. To your point, the technology is in the works here to bring us out the ebb and flow, right, so it start trending higher, so to speak. Yeah, So.

I've read house books, I've read you know, pretty much all the interesting books that I can find on this topic, and it does make sense, right, And nine to eleven events do kind of point to a modern version of what happens in a late day empire when you look at similar events, and it's just more dramatic because we didn't have you know, jet planes the size of a football field that you could fly into a building in the eighteen hundreds, right, I mean, it's crazy. So so

that's different this time. But the idea of a late stage empire is not different. The idea of the pendulum swinging right is not different. The fact that we have computers and machines that have the IQ of a PhD in every subject, every subject is new. We didn't have that last time. Well, you know Napoleonic Wars or you know Dutch East in the Empire, they didn't have that collective intelligence. That doesn't mean that we're going to be smarter. It just means we could make for all and we

can make dumb mistakes faster I don't know. I hope not, but I do think we're going to be smarter. But but I don't think it's like who's the next empire anymore? Right, the rise of China is inevitable, but I don't think China is going to be the global empire the way the US was. You know, I kind of have this grow It's it's almost like the next empire versus the Internet.

It's not even about the US. The best thing the US can do, being forty trillion dollars in debt, is enable global exponential technological growth where we play a central role. That's the best thing that we can do for our own self interest, which I think happens to align with humanity. Right, So so you know, maybe, and there's the answer to your question. But but basically what I'm getting at is

I think that, yes, this is played out before. I think the cycles may be broken for a few reasons, meaning, you know, it's not going to look like just the next wave. Like Dalio talks about the cycles of generations and you can't deny the history. But there's you know, I'm always weary of it's here's why it's different this time.

But anyway, here's why it's different this time. And I do think it's Hey, you know, we do have machines that have collective intelligence that is a PhD level and everything. Now we have the ability to move ourselves in real time anywhere in the planet that we want. We have relatively abundant energy. The vast majority of the planet lives above the poverty level now for the first time ever, and it's getting better. We're about to enter a new

age of exponentially growing abundance. And like I said, the biggest challenge we have is is that a significant portion of the population either doesn't see it, feel it, or believe it. And maybe it doesn't matter. You know, it used to not matter because everybody died ironically right now, ironically, one of the side effects of what's coming is is that people are going to live a lot longer. Now.

This relates to money, because if you look at how empires inflate their currency to deal with their poor policy making, it happens to coincide with life expectancy because it's the easiest way to hide what you're doing. In other words, if you have a lot of money and the government is inflating prices by inflating the currency to effectively erode the purchasing power at six seven percent a year. But you're going to be dead in twenty years or twenty

five years. The pain isn't really acute. It's annoying, right, but it's not like acute for most people because either one you don't have any savings, or two you have more than enough. And so the fact that they're taking a bunch away via artificial money printing, it's like I said, it's aggravating at worst. If we start living to one hundred and thirty one hundred and forty, that's not going

to be the case anymore. You can't have a stable monetary system based upon a currency whose value you're eroding by seven percent a year. They'd be rioting in the streets. Occupy Wall Street gave us a sense that people were starting to get it to some degree. They couldn't explain it, right if you act ask the average person, why occupy you know, like, you know, we're getting screwed, right, they screwed us, but they saved the bankers, and that's that

was true. But I'm giving you the real behind the curtain, Like you're getting screwed because they're eroding the value of your money, and you're blaming the billionaires. The billionaires are just able to make levered bets on the erosion you are not. That's the difference. It's the system that's fucking you,

it's not the billionaire, right. And and so that will be acute when we start living to one hundred and thirty hundred and forty right, And and so there's this confluence that And it's funny because you know, I was having this I mentioned is talking to Peter the other day, and and you know, he's his big spiel is longevity, right, and so the two are coming together. He's a huge bitcoiner and client of AB and so we talk about that, right, I mean, what's going to happen when his clients start

living to one hundred and forty right? He says, well, they're going to do what you're doing. Their bita is going to become bitcoin because there's no way they're going to hold assets priced in dollars or even dollars itself. Right. So so you know, yeah, I think I think there's a real chance that that cycle is broken for all of these reasons.

these AI agents and AI and you know, coming at us from all directions, it will be on your phone, it'll be companies are going to have their own AI versions. You have that collective knowledge, like you said, the higher IQ some wisdom. So maybe we don't have to kind of go through that cyclical pattern of the common failures

of pitfalls of human nature. Some of that could be mitigated. Plus, you have decentralization with blockchains and hard assets like bitcoin that could help take some power away from the likes of the banking cartel and things like that. So for sure, so to your point, some of those things are alleviated.

they need to justify their existence. But you know, the whole purpose of decentralization is to eliminate the need for them to exist, right, just like it's you know, I think Visa and look, I have friends at these places. I know, sorry as everyone, but you know, Visa Depository, Trust Bank of America. The best thing that could happen as a result of decentralization and smart contracts is that you all no longer need to exist, and nobody wants to use your products anymore, right, and just it's not

a knock and the system. It's just true, you know.

And and so stock trading is going to fundamentally change in the next thirty six months, where you have natively issued equities via smart contract tokens, meaning they're not tokenized versions of existing shares, those native you know, tokenized equities will be twenty four to seven borderless, and you'll begin to see the value of international or domestic I should say, securities regulators diminish, right, And so the question will be, okay, well if I have the equivalent of an S one,

you know, how do I see that? Well, it'll be on chain and the market will police itself over time. You love courts to adjudicate, but that's where this is going, you know. So you're going to see I think a massive movement towards towards traditional finance, moving into DeFi. And it started with dollars. Of course, we stable coins and you know, yield products, and the next generation is equities.

You you know, you get you know, you get a stable dollar, and you can do it via you know, neobanks because a lot of them are based on Salana now UH. And you'll see us do more and more in this area, in equities, in in fixed income, in real estate, and I think figuring out how to natively tokenize these things or stuff is is the the big prize from a trad FI perspective, and and that enables

new businesses from old world assets, which is awesome. The even bigger prize is the AI, the crypto integration into AI UH for the agentic Internet. There's no other way to do transaction processing for the agenic Internet that makes sense to me. None and at scale? Right, and and so why would you want an off switch? Why would you want to use an oracle database for an AI agent that somebody can control? Makes no sense? I shouldn't

you know? There probably aren's is where it does. But for the vast majority of applications, to me, leveraging decentralized systems make more sense. So I think the future in both areas is of you know, twenty four to seven equities trading no borders, agentic internet, you know on twenty four to seven no borders. It's super interesting to me, Bill.

but certainly television. Never mind the Internet and AI and mobile phones and crypto smart contracts that I won't know off switch and no borders, and so that's crazy. The best thing that meme coins did for us is they showed us how trad fi can work. In other words, when when Trump introduced the meme coin, I wouldn't have done it if I was him. I realized it wasn't him, it was other people that were using his name. But whatever, I still wouldn't have done it. But put that aside.

It was the most scalable transaction processing launch ever and I'm including Visa in that, Okay. It showed us that

we can use this stuff to build scalable platforms. So now if you're going to build a stock based system, neobank system, you have to look at Solana, you have to look at suey Apto's Algoran and all these platforms because they do scale now right right, and and so and they're moving more and more along the path of decentralization, which is what we want, you know, and and so yeah, I mean you have to basically be bullish on that migration of old world stuff to new plus the enablement

of the things you can't do today, which is that argentic. You know, we all have bots running around the internet, you know, doing things for us.

banks adopting crypto. You know, just yesterday I heard Morgan Stanley filed for bitcoin and Solona ETFs today. I think they meant to file for a theorem. You got Vanguard capitulating, right. Uh. But yet they want to tweak certain things. So on one hand, we're tokenizing, we're launching stable coins, we're launching ETFs custody. The other hand, Congress, we need you to roll back some of the Genius Act items. Is that weird or just just a control thing?

be operating under those FDICOCC rules. And as the current generation of teens and twenty something takes over the wealth, they have no interest in that boomer shit none. They want to hold their money in stable coins or crypto. They don't want plastic. They just want to point the phone. They want instant on credit.

it's going to be small purchases. And so there's this changing of the guard from a an ownership perspective that's coming, and it happens to be coming at the same time of all this other stuff we talked about around you know,

ownership in this exponential age, which is a problem. But still there's this you know, fifteen is trillion in wealth that's about to be moved from you know, people who are you know, retiring, dying into you know, the next generation who are in their thirties and forties, and then you know, it's going to move down into people who are in their teens and twenties now. And and like I said, it's they're just not going to operate. They're

not interested in your bitcoin ETF. They're not They're not interested in your you know, money market product, you know paying or CD paying one and a half percent. They're just not right. And so they're interested in crypto, they're interested in smart contracts, they're interested in these you know, prediction markets, they're interested in games. They don't believe in the dollar based economy anymore. It doesn't work for them, even if they come from wealth, it doesn't work for them.

They don't get it. I mean, they think it's just the dumb things that the boomers did when they did it, and it's not like their thing, right, And I talked to my own kids about it. It's like they understand that they have to operate in that world, but they think it's stupid.

But who knows. I don't know. I actually have read a little bit about Edison and those times, and you know, ironically, it was like I think it was JP Morgan himself who was financing Edison and a lot of those things because he wanted to be the first to have the lights. He literally financed a lot of it to make sure that the wiring that they were laying made its way to his homes and his buildings in New York City

because it was a show up thing, right. He wanted to be the one who could basically flip the switch in his home when people came to visit a night because everything was candles before, right. So, but you know, it made its way to everyone, and I think this is the same. But I think, yeah, we are. We aren't an endgame now, and I think it may take ten fifteen years. I don't think it's going to be

as abrupt. Maybe. I think at some point all this stuff is just going to be the way finance works and it will have crept up on everyone and there'll still be a bunch of banks. I mean, look, that's why, you know it all makes sense when you when you line up the stars. Why was Elizabeth Warren so hell bent on killing our space? Why because we looked at

her funny, because you know I called her names online. No, because her goal is to socialize the banking system and basically you know, preserve you know, socialist heedgmenty under you know, a unified city bank or chase whoever it is. The anoint and one ends up being and that's not reality. The reality is is the pendulum is swinging towards decentralization.

They've basically lost before the battle even started. It just was a very expensive, multi year detour which costs me a lot of gray hair, and we are where we would have been anyway, minus the gray hairs and all the money we had to spend on lobbying and also the crap that we shouldn't have had to spend. But the outcome is going to be the same either way. Banking systems will be replaced with DeFi right credit will be replaced with smart contract based loans, leveraging tokenized assets

or bitcoin as collateral. Right smart AI agents will use smart contracts to process transactions. And it was going to happen regardless of what they did the last or tried to do to us the last three or four years, and some of it was self inflicted, of course, but independent of that, when more or less where we were going to be anyway, in my.

on that note, we got the Market Structure Bill in this Senate markup apparently it is happening next week or the vote for the markup. What are your expectations do you think that gets past this year? And what do we see after that? Do we see a lot of m and as and so forth.

the US. And then you have the Banking Committee, which oversees the securities industry and those who have to be integrated and reconciled, and that hasn't started yet to my understanding. They're talking, of course, and kudos to David Zachs for facilitating a lot of that and pushing this as a

key item in the president's you know, agenda. But that integration has to happen, and it will, and I do believe it'll be difficult to get done this year, but I do think it'll be close but I think they will, and I think if you think about the time that it takes all the other things that are going on with you know, now midterm election cycles coming up, it's going to be tough, but I do think they'll get it done. They have to push hard to get this integration done of the two bills.

launched these synthetics, stable coin, anything else you want to highlight, did you guys have launched or what's on your road map this year?

a few years, so it was tough. But you know, we're fully back where we relaunched our our services under you know, an Secria umbrella ironically, and you know, we're one of the largest, if not the largest kind of wealth advisor in the crypto space, facilitating yield big Bitcoin, Ethereum, Salona back loans that businesses blot for us. You know, our clients have a vault model now where everybody gets

their assets in a segregated vault. They're not on our balance sheet, So each client is more or less operating under their own personal balance sheet using this separately managed account crypto. We call it vaults, but you know in traditional equities they call it SMAs or separately managed accounts.

And it's just the way people who dig in want to use crypto, right, I mean, if you know anything about what we've been talking about for the last few minutes, it's like, Okay, why would I want to basically operate if I believe in the ethos of decentralization, why would I want to leave my assets on a centralized exchange. That's on the exchange is balance sheet that is literally orthogonal to everything we've been talking about for the last

twenty minutes. Whereas with the abermodel, now I basically retain title to my assets, I can basically guarantee that I can see those assets on chain. If ABER goes away, I get those assets back. So it's if I don't understand the tech and I'm scared of cold storage, and I'm going to use DeFi anyway, So cold storage isn't really that helpful. Abra and the Abram model is the right way to do this unless you're a PhD in computer science and you're comfortable, you know, doing all that

stuff on your own, right. So so our clients are just not going to do that right and so so so anyway, you know, we're managing you know, hundreds of millions now via that model, migrating other parts of the business to that model, launching a new mobile app later this quarter if if we get it done out this quarter, might be early next quarter, but I'm I'm we're pushing for this quarter. And it's killer because it's the first app I've seen that will allow you to access that

vault model with a consumer like experience. So for our high networth family office clients still have like a Robinhood like experience, but they're getting their own Vault. I've never seen that before, right, So that's where this is headed.

There's other stuff where we're announcing soon I can't give away legally, but but yeah, I mean, we've come a long way to you know, a little bit of a cecuitous route, not necessarily self inflicted to everything self inflicted because it's our choice to be in this business, I suppose, but independent of that, it's not self inflicted. But we're

still here, and I've never been more excited about our future. Forebra, I mean, you know, we have some very happy clients right now, so that's all it's all about.