HUGE Stablecoin Innovation Unlocked with the GENIUS Act Passing! with Kevin Lehtiniitty

one hundred percent reserved. You can review their transparency report. They don't commingle or lend out your funds now. Uphold recently launch a great product called Uphold Rewards. And it's packed with many benefits. You can earn up to five point twenty five percent on stable coins, get twenty four our early access to new token listenings and unlock exclusive crypto insights, and a support a variety of stable coins such as PYUSD that's PayPal stable Coins, Circles, USDC, and USBC.

They will be supporting Ripples's upcoming launch of r l USD. So this is a really great rewards program and if you'd like to learn more, please visit the link in the description. Hey folks, I'm down here at Station three NYC in New York's Financial District and joining me is Kevin Litinity, who is the CEO of Borderless Xyz. Kevin, I'm so happy we're doing this in person.

we get into all things genius act and the future is stable coin payments and much more, give the folks a quick overview of borderless.

And then you have a ton, especially in this market, of startups that are getting funded that are also providing liquidity in a smaller subset of regions, and the reason this is so fragmented is still the regulatory landscape. So blockchains are global. We all know that tokens are global, we all know that, But regulatory frameworks are still super fragmented. So just because you have a regulatory license in Brazil doesn't mean that suddenly you can operate in the EU.

So you've got all these not small but fragmented local liquidity providers. And in the traditional payment space, we've solved this with networks, the Visa network, the MasterCard, the Swift network. Nobody is licensed everywhere, even JP Morgan Chase doesn't have regulatory licenses in one hundred and ninety five different countries. And imagine a world in which every bank needs to do an API integration into every single other bank around

the world in order to transact with them. Completely unscalable and completely solved by standards. I connect to Swift. Swift is connected to all these other banks. Therefore we can transact together. That doesn't exist in stable points. If Bridge wants to transact with yellow Card, Bridge needs to go into a partnership with and an integration into Yellow Card.

So what Borderalist has done is try to build that connectivity where you connect once into borderless and borderless is connected into the borderless network which is now fifteen and growing, regulated counterparties and all these different jurisdictions across the US, EU, Latin Africa, Southeast Asia. So you can connect one time and then enable all these different counterparties that you can transact with to create these cross border products and global payments products.

to do that other leg of that transaction. So if I connect to the border as network, now I have all these counter parties already built in that I can choose from, and I'm basically the way we think about it is, in this case, you're the originator and then these counterparties are the beneficiaries, and now you can do and then to end either on ramp off ramp stable cooin sandwich, treasury management, whatever that looks like. Right, So we don't work on the liquidity or the regulatory licenses

in any country. We work on this connectivity, messaging and communications later where we say, great, there's already one hundred companies out there that are licensed in all these different countries providing the liquidity. How do we connect them all in one platform that makes it really easy for people to use.

in the bridge to have that go through seamlessly.

And the vast majority of why cruise ship workers go into that industry, like why would you work on a cruise ship right You're gone from home months at a time. That's a giant sacrifice, mostly to send money back home. So they then need to get payroll processing is straightforward. But when I get paid to the cruise ship worker, how do I then send that money back to the Philippines,

back to China, back to all those things. There's liquidity providers in each of those regions, and the way that Polar's doing it is by connecting to Borderless and then they're using the borderless network of liquidity providers all around the world to say great, it doesn't matter if you live in country ABCD or f you can off ramp your USDC balance in the Polar app to your family's

FIAT bank account. Basically, anywhere in the world because they're connected to borderless, and borderless then connects them to these regulated liquidity providers all over the world.

providing liquidity between USDC and BRL in Brazil. They're all offering it at different rates. So now you get into some like best execution and things like that. Of great, if you have a bunch of providers on a network, now I can start to run Algos on top of this network, and I can say, hey, provider A is at X, provider B is at Y, Provider C is at Z right now this second, in real time, the best FX rate is provider B do you want to route the transaction through their liquidity right now? In this

second it's provider C let me route there. And those are the things that if you connect directly to a provider like a bitso as an example, you get bitso's rate no matter what. If you connect to bitso through borderless, you can also connect to three other people and now they're almost bidding for the order flow and you're able to route the transaction in real time to whoever has the best FX versus just being stuck with one person's rate.

So there's all these cool things that you get to start to build on top of the liquidity.

treasury management repatriation. You know, SpaceX does a lot with stable coins to repatriate funds back into the US, and then they also serve end users, right, So think creator economy, neo banks, think consumer cross border remittance apps, things of that nature. Those are kind of the application layer is our customer, and then they're taking it to their user and corporate customer base.

how broad is the coverage that we have across the world. Right, can we support every single country on planet Earth today? The answers no. I dream of a day in which the answer is. The Borderless Network is literally in every non sanctioned country in the world. And you know, Trillion is part of our you know, big push on expansion where we've been doing some transaction processing with their liquidity for some corporates that are repatriating funds actually from Brazil

back to the US, very specifically with Trillion. And the more and more we started to talk with the team, the more they're like, hey, we don't want to just kind of do these one off things, like we want to actually join the Borderless Network and we want to be one of the regulated counter parties that's on the network. And you know, when there are people that need to consume our liquidity, and our liquidity is are the best possible price. We want to be able to fill those orders.

And when we want to consume liquidity that we don't have because they are licensed in a subset of countries, right, They're not licensed in one hundred and ninety five countries around the world, we want to be able to consume

that liquidity for the network. So a lot of the people that are joining the network are joining it as both a beneficiary where they're filling transactions when they win from a price standpoint, and then they're also originating transactions when they need liquidity in areas they don't cover.

around border lists that you want to highlight, you know that maybe you guys recently launch or whatever it may be.

quite literally ten x Q one volume. That's I've been in, you know, the blockchain world professionally since twenty sixteen, which is kind of scary at the same time as you it's weird to think that's been like nine years and we've seen a lot of cycles and a lot of growth, but ten x in a quarter that's kind of insane. Yeah, And I'll be honest, I don't know how much of that is super sustainable right like I do think the market is very frothy. There's a lot of hype right now.

There's a ton of stable coin use cases that I would argue not only don't make sense, but we have the data to refute that they don't work. That people

are still super excited about, so whatever. But that just shows the demand right now is off the charts for people that are whether they end up doing it sustainably or not, are legitimately looking at and trying to understand should they move part or all of their transaction flow to the stable coins, which to them represents, you know, instantly settle programmable money versus kind of the legacy structures we've had before.

who don't know, that's a stable coin legislation that President Trump just signed into law last week. Are you seeing if your phone ringing off the hook more demand coming in?

CPN didn't exist. This concept was completely new, and it was really difficult for people to understand what we did. They're like, wait, so are you a provider or are you a blockchain or are you a stable coin? Like we're none of those things. We're a payments network. And people are like, what is that? Why do I need it? Et cetera, et cetera. Now that's will come out with CPN. That's massively validated the fact that a payments network should exist as a category. Right, Circle is, you know, the

publicly traded giants of the stable coin space. That there is the market cap giants of the stable coin space. Circle is the publicly traded giant. So that to have the biggest publicly traded company and stable coins create a product that looks very similar to ours is massively validat into the business model. And our super simple answer now

is well, we're a stable coin agnostic version of CPN. Right, CPN has no incentives and I'm sure they will at some point, very little incentive to promote competing stable coins to USDC, euroc et cetera. And now that the Genius Acts has been passed, there's so much more interest in launching new stable coins. That is perfect for us because we're the stable coin agnostic version. If the entire world collapses to USDC, there is no need for borderless just UCPN.

That's it. If the entire world doesn't collapse onto one stable coin, which we firmly believe it won't, and right now we're in this expansionary environment on stable coop issuance with the Genius Act. Then the network layer needs to be credibly neutral. It can't be built by a stable coin because that stable coin will always buy us its own token. It can't be built by a layer one blockchain because that blockchain will always buy us its own network.

It can't be built by a wallet provider because that wallet provider will always buy us the assets in its own wallets. Right, it can't be built by any of these market participants and be credibly neutral. So the only way to build a credibly neutral payments network is something like Borderless, which is not a layer one, which is not a token, which is not a wallet provider, which is not you know, any of these things, and is just quote unquote a payments network.

being agnostic. There's so many stable coins out there already to market, and then we have news that banks are going to launch your own. Oh yeah, Bank of America is just I saw I think it was yesterday Western Union CEO speaking about they want to integrate stable coins. So with this legisy in place, almost anyone can launch your own stable coin. We don't know which ones are going to be successful, but there's going to be more than one.

comfortable with. And now with Genius, that's all starting to happen, right and that I think is going to see a giant explosion, and we can jump into what stable coins will win in which ones well, when I'm happy to put some theories out there, but I think we're gonna see a giant explosion of stable coin issues.

the bitwaves and tres Finances of the world. We're looking at compliance vendor integrations like the sok here, some subs, personas, et cetera.

connectivity is more than liquidity. Maybe that's a little bit of a of a teaser, some alpha into what are you know, three or five year roadmap looks like, But that's kind of how we view the business.

owned by Tether. If you're a tech startup saying hey, you know what, I'm just going to build a stable coin and that's going to be my business, that's not gonna work. The ones that I'm bullish on are one people with distribution. So if you look at Circles as one filing when they did their IPO, and you look at how much they paid a coinbase and others for distribution, anybody that has a built in distribution base can avoid

those costs, which is absolutely massive. So in that realm, I'm thinking traditional payments companies, so the Western Union, the money Grams, et cetera of the world, who already have all this distribution. Super simple for them to flip on a stable coin, right, Well, simple is relative, but you get my point. Oh, you know Paypals kind of started doing this with PYUSD. They own a tremendous amount of

distribution themselves. Why give that to someone else. The corporates that have a large entrenched customer base, so Amazon stable coin, Walmart stable coin, Samsung stable coin, you know these sorts of companies. I'm very bullish on those because they have existing giant customer ecosystems that they can push those into. And then I'm bullish on bank owned stable coins BOVA I. You know, they've made some announcements. I would imagine JPM they tokenic deposits. I would imagine like b and Y

and others are also looking at this. And I had a conversation with someone who works at a very large US institution maybe three or four months ago, and I asked him because he's the head of the blockchain stuff there, and I was like, why aren't you guys doing anything with stable coins yet? It seems so obvious. And what he said to me was basically, Kevin, when you operate at the scale at which we operate, we think a

lot around counterparty risk. And our counterparty risk today when we hold dollars is the FED in the US government our counterparty risk when we hold USDC pre IPO is this tiny fintech startup that's not even public yet called Circle And granted now Circle as ipo'd there continued to grow and you know, Jeremy's built up a phenomenal business,

and I wish all the best to Circle. I think a lot of the giant when we think of enterprise, like the actual enterprise end of enterprise is looking at this and saying, Okay, my counterparty risk profile changes from the FED in the US government to Circle. I don't think so, but my counterparty risk profile changes to be of a or to JPM. Great, we already bank at JPM. We already have two hundred million dollars in corporate cash

sitting at JPM. Okay, we could take a JPM coin. Now, the counterparty risk profile it changes from a regulatory standpoint because you know, insurance things change and liability, but your fundamental counterparty remains JPM or BOVA or Wells or you know one of the top US money center banks that's already managing your treasury that you already have comfort with, versus switching your counterparty risk to someone completely new. So I'm really bullish on that segment.

We're talking about you know, people that have large amount of distribution Walmart, Amazon, et cetera, launching stable coins. Maybe we're a smaller company that doesn't have that level of distribution, but if we can pool that distribution with a bunch of other companies. So you look at USDG and it's Paxos plus Anchorage plus robin Hood plus world Pay plus I think Visa. Now I wasn't sure if that was

a rumor or not. Maybe it was a rumor, but putting together this consortium of companies behind a stable coin that I think is interesting.

and it's very interesting. So maybe we could see more of these different types of consortiums create.

see quite a few of those enter the market. And whether it's USGG that wins or doesn't, I don't know. But we're you know, we've had the privilege of being pretty close to that team and we know some of the way that they're thinking about this, and I'm super bullish on the way that they're thinking about it.

at it's King of the Hill, has the largest market share, It's had some issues in the EU with the MICA regulations. It sounds like they're gonna be okay to us. The CEO said they're going to have a top four accounting firm, do the full audit and all that jazz. Do you think they lose market share over time?

today is very different from Tether of twenty eighteen. And you know, I think what Circle is doing is they're making a big push around regulated environments, so Mike and the eu US things like that, where they've really tried to position themselves as and I don't mean to call Tether unsophisticated, they're not, but Circles really positioned themselves as the sophisticated stable coins right for institutions, for enterprises. This

is super regulated, this is super you know everything. And where Tether's done a phenomenal job is in organic growth. Like I always think of Circle as the stable coin in the Ivory Tower and of Tether as the stable coin for the people. Right where they've gone into emerging markets where dollarization is super important. Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Mexico, parts of Latam, parts of Africa, South Africa, Kenya, other

parts there. They've gone really big into Southeast Asia, Philippines and Thailand and those and they're kind of that organic, grassroots stable coin where if you are outside the US and the EU and you ask someone about stable coins, I don't know if it's it's more than nine out of ten. I don't know if it's ninety nine out of one hundred, but it's more than ninety out of one hundred. People go oh USDT or oh tether and they have this grassroots, real world adoption by consumers everywhere.

And then tether's gone institutions, enterprises, Wall Street, et cetera, et cetera, And ultimately, I want to think the people win. That's what I want to think, you know, That's that's the feel good story that we tell ourselves. But the stable coin wars are for sure heating up and will be interesting to see how this market changes.

so across I think, you know, sixty seven countries now we're seeing real time liquidity feeds on price. And one of the things that we can do is we can look at it on a per token basis and I can tell you what the usd cfx rate is versus the usdtfect rate, and that's a function of how deep

the liquidity is in those markets. And when you get outside of the US and the EU, there's pretty significant price differences between USDC rates and USDT rates because the liquidity in USDT is so much deeper, the adoption is so much greater that I think that's the uphill battle for circle. It's like, yes, you know, if we put everything on a level playing field, both tokens are worth a dollar, right, But that doesn't mean that both tokens are worth the same amount of ZARH.

trillion dollar market cap for stable coins by next year? Oh?

I was on an NPR segment earlier last week, and one of the things that I said that didn't make it into the final edit, which I'm really mad about, Which is what I'm saying it again, is I think that over the next five to ten years, the vast majority of commerce will operate on stable coin rails, and I would bet almost anything on that fact being true.

I think that where we are sitting today is kind of the you know, the the Internet in the nineties, And if you went to somebody in the nineties and you predicted glass rectangles sitting in all of our pockets, constantly connected with five G connections to all the world's information, people would have thought that you were absolutely insane. But it wasn't one hundred years to get from the nineties

to the twenty tents and now the twenty twenties. And I think as people we are terrible at understanding exponential growth. We just assume that everything is linear. That's how our brains are wired. But adoption is never linear. The pace increases, increases, increases, increases, increases, and all of a sudden you realize three years ago this doesn't even exist. Right, Just for how long of human history have humans been able to fly? It's not

that big of a part of human history. But now we take going to the airport flying to Singapore for Token twenty forty nine as a completely granted thing that the you know, moves all over the world about it. Yeah, so, I you know, I think we'll hit some very interesting market gaps in the next twelve months. I actually think we'll then see our retracing back from that. I think we are in a hype cycle, so I think we're

gonna see a ton of adoption. I'd love to see it hit those numbers, and then I think it's gonna pull back for a few years. And then I think we're going to see another option wave, and that next adoption wave is going to make this look like child's play. You think in that's like twenty thirty, because you have we just got the legislation. There needs to be R and D trial and error testing.

institutions move. They move at the speed of years. So that bear market's going to be a ton of building. And then then twenty thirty ish bull run is going to come back, and that's going to be everybody at an enterprise and institutional level getting into stables. It's not just going to be the fintech startups.

your perspective on this because we talk about the demand for USDT outside the United States, and people are familiar with the brand. But are we gonna eventually get to a world where I, like, I don't think about my phone. You know, I'm carrying all these apps, I'm connected to the internet. I'm just gonna move money. I'm not thinking this is a stable coin. Here's what I can do

with it. But eventually, these big players getting in Western Union and banks it's just going to move faster, cheaper fees, and I don't need to think about it.

to be I'm sitting in an emerging markets country. I'm pulling up my banking app, whether it's a traditional banking app or an eobanking app through a fintech, Whether like I pull up my bank and in my bank three thousand dollars, whether those dollars are in tether, are in circle, are in some bank issued stable coin, are actually a deposit token, or some consortium stable coin. I'm not even gonna know as a consumer, nor am I gonna care.

All I know is that I, in country X, am able to hold a balance of three thousand dollars in USD and I'm able to do that because of stable coins.

I would argue, I've never looked at the data, but I know in my own personal life probably ninety percent of the things that I buy I buy from the Internet. I don't go walk into a brick and mortar store. It's not a thing anymore. Same thing stable coins today, scary, blockchain, scary, big deal rug pulls, other things like that. Fast forward ten years from now, it's gonna be the default way to move money.

segment of the market, like the early adopters who are very knowledgeable about this technology and say, hey, I want to hold USDC on coin base because it gives me this x amount of ap y YEP per year. There might be a segment of.

these holdings. That's amazing, right, And as people who are sitting here in New York and who live in the US, we take interest bearing accounts so much for granted, right, we take our And this was part of the stuff kind of arguments that I may when you started the company, where people are like, I don't understand the use case for stable coins. I'm like, you live in the US, your default currency is US dollars. Go talk to someone at Argentina and go ask them why they want a

stable coin. You just can't appreciate that because you live in the country that owns the global reserve currency, right, and that's like maybe a cop out, but that is a super privileged position to be in. And in addition to being the global reserve currency, we're also used to being able to open high interest accounts in one of I don't know, ten thousand VC backed fintech apps that

can sit on your phone. But all of a sudden, when you bring that into markets where that isn't something that they're used to, this is transformative for the people who live there. And I think yield is going to be the second value proposition for stable coins. The first is going to be access to dollars and the second is going to be accessed to yield. Yeah.

or another layer to this genius law being put into place, is the royal reserve currency, the US dollar dominance, right, and this providing another avenue for people to purchase US treasuries. And you got bricks trying to compete and bypass the US dollar. But now that you put in a digital format, here, throw it. Throw the wide cast net out there, a bunch of people around the world are going to be able to easily access to the dollar, get yield. You see this boosting the adoption to the US dollar.

a wide range of views, they're outside of that. As a country, we need to be pro stable coin, and we need to be pro fully reserved, and we need to be pro legislation and regulation around issuance. Not because this is political party A, your political party B, but because this is the best way to continue and grow US dollar dominance around the world, and our entire economy

is based on US dollar dominance around the world. If that is all of a sudden untrue, the quality of life that we have all come to be complacent in and that we have all come to enjoy is going to look very very different from now. And there are people, countries, governments, whatever, who aren't in first place, who wake up every day trying to figure out how they're going to be in first place. You know, there's that there's that great saying that I that I love. It's like, you know, bad

times creates strong men. Strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create bad times. And I think it's difficult to argue that the US for the past one hundred years hasn't been good times. And we've taken a lot of things for granted that other political nation states haven't been able to take for granted. And where they're hungry and they're innovative and they're trying to get to that top spot, we're becoming very complacent.

And as stable coins represents the best way for US to export the dollar globally, we as a country, regardless of political affiliation, need to all be all in on stable coins if we're going to have a fighting chance over the long term.

I was talking to someone about it. You know, with China developing certain parts of Africa, it's easy for them to push their digital you want, and everybody there, why they may not have a computer, they have smartphones, set up the wallet there you go.

You've got the petro dollar stuff, You've got some like rick stuff, and there are you know more than one nation state that are actively trying to figure out how do they disrupt dollar global dominance and put you know there, whether it's a controltion framework or whether it's their currency, you know, how do they take that spot? And again, it's something we don't think about, right. We think about what's when's my next PTO? What am I going to eat for dinner? When do I you know, where am

I going with my wife for date night? And I think unfortunately, I think the same can be said of a lot of our political leaders where we're not really in a landscape today that's thinking about, well, what is the best thing for the US on one hundred year time horizon. And maybe part of that is because you have a four year term and you're like, screw, screw the hundred years, right, I just need to have a

good four years, right. But I think there's you know, very real long term threats in the US, and then stable coins are a phenomenal way to mitigate those.

have been mitigated by this law being passed? And again, it doesn't matter politically, why if it was another president, it doesn't matter, But at the end of the day, Congress got the bill through given in a president's yep.

on dollar dominance, also based on innovation. Right. If you look at the amount of enterprise value that's created in the world, a large concentration of the enterprise value is created in the United States. And it does so because we have an entrepreneurial and innovation culture that allows for the creation of net new things in the world. And we should combine that culture with the most important asset

we have, which is the dollar. And if we put those two things together, we can create some pretty amazing things. And that's what the entables.

say Venezuela or in some country in Africa. So let's say I have a friend in Venezuela and he's like, hey, any help to get something done in my house or whatever. Maybe I send him one thousand dollars worth of us DC or USDT with the infrastructure that's being built. Now, can he spend some of that but also hold some of that and earn yield, but also put it into some sort of DeFi protocol and do more.

And the fully converts piece is actually the biggest issue. Right, What you want to do in an emerging market that doesn't have a super stable currency or has a lot of inflationary issues is you want to be able to retain as much of that balance as possible dollars. So now, all of a sudden, if I send you a thousand dollars, then you need to use a hundred of it. It

doesn't fully convert on receipt. Right, you can say, Okay, I've gotten a thousand dollars, I'm going to convert a hundred of it for groceries, rents, fixing the house, whatever it is that I want to do. I'm going to hold the other nine hundred dollars still in dollars in stable coin form, and then talking about yield as the second giant use case, I'm now going to go and I'm going to earn yield on this right. And I may do that through a yield bearing stable coin. I

may do that through a DeFi protocol. I may do that through some sort of like a lending protocol. Granted there's counter party, the risk profile change is very differently on that. But I can start to do things with these dollars that I haven't been able to do before.

And I think one of the questions is, okay, well, if you extrapolate this out a decade, would you ever need to convert it back to Venezuelan currency or would you be able to pay for everything in dollars, And there's a really strong narrative going around in the stable coin space around dollarization that's like, hey, off ramps are completely meaningless because in the long run everything's gonna be dollar based stable coins. I don't like that narrative, and

I'll tell you why. When you think about these nation states, whether it's Venezuela or anything else, a large amount of the power that the government has comes from the central bank and controlling their currency. And if you look at markets, especially markets with strong capital controls, look at India, look at Turkey, look at these places, there's a lot of

stable cooin adoption happening there. I just don't see a world in which the Indian government, as an example, wakes up ten years from now and is like, oh wow, nobody uses ion R anymore when as well sunset it and just adopt dollars as a country, That's not happening. So I do think in the long term there is probably a digital I in R that things convert to, but there's still gonna be a need for the infrastructure that takes that USDC and that converts it to a

local central bank controlled currency. Whether it's a CBDC or an independent stable coin, doesn't really matter. The point is countries aren't going to throw their own currency away in favor of the US dollar. They haven't done that historically. They're not going to do that in the future. That completely erodes their country's identity.

have global fragmentation. Right. We also have fragmentation by language. There was an attempt to create a universal language a while back, right, Like, these things don't work because there's so much national identity, national pride, and most importantly, governmental power that's tied to creating that fragmentation and owning these things yourself.

problem from a corporate standpoint. And if you think that, you know, your thousand bucks of savings in an emerging market country is a big deal to you, imagine what the corporate balance sheet is as a big deal to that corporate right. And now stable coins are also simply changing the treasury game because all these companies in emerging markets that haven't been big enough to get multi currency accounts and things of that nature, but have considerably more

dry powder than the average retail individual. They're also looking at it going, wait a minute, we can protect against inflation on our entire balance sheet by going to a stable coin, and then we can start to create yield bearing programs on top of that, with interest sparing things with tokenized tea bills, with like you know, Benji and Biddle and all those different things. The work that Ondo's doing, and a lot of the tokenizing yield and money market

fund side that's game changing for corporates. And now those are multimillion dollar ticket sizes versus on hundred dollar ticket sizes, right wow.

easier lift. And once we get people to adopt a dollar on this crazy new technology, then all of a sudden, it's a much smaller lift to get them to adopt a better form of money on that new technology. And I think, you know, maybe long term that's where that goes. Again, I think you're gonna have a lot of nation states disinterested in that. Right. What else Salvador has done is very unique in the world, and I don't think that we're going to see a bunch of nation states adopt

a bitcoin standard. Unfortunately, maybe they do, but I do think that it certainly if stable coins represents a form of digital payments, I definitely think that bitcoin represents the best form we have of kind of digital value storage. But I agree with you. It's you know, it's not going to become the default payments mechanism.

term treasury strategy that revolves around bitcoin. Right, need to do the whole micro strategy, like complete dive into the deep end. But if you're a corporate that's holding one hundred million dollars in treasury that represents you know, ten years of lifespan. Why wouldn't you take twenty million of that and if you don't need it for ten years, hold it in bitcoin. Right, It really is to use your digital gold narrative. Like, it's a much better way

to store long term funds. Now. If you need liquid availability, stable coins are going to be way better for that. But if you have a long term treasury, I think it belongs to most people's bounce sheets.

the Clarity Act, the market structure bill that is expected to pass late September early October. What do you think the impact is going to be on the market for that.

because we haven't given it regulatory clarity. And if we can get clarity passed, I really like the concept of the dual market structure, right, I think that makes a lot of sense. You know. One of the analogies that I love to use for like, oh, how do you regulate a token? Is like, great, how do you regulate a pdf? Right? A pdf can be an image of my cats, a PDF could be the title to my car, a pdf could be a legal agreement. Regulating a pdf

makes no sense. Regulating what the PDF represents that makes a lot of sense, right. And I believe the same thing about tokens, and how do you regulate a crypto token? I think is a horrible question to ask because there's so many different structures of token. A token is just software, that's all it is, how do you regulate software? Well, what does the software do? If the software makes payments,

you probably regulate it like payments. If the software lets you post funny JPEGs of your cat, you probably regulate it like a social network. Right, And I think clarity is some really good first steps of doing that, of saying, Okay, we're not just going to regulate a piece of software as this blind overarching thing. We're going to look at the characteristics and we're gonna say, okay, what does this

actually do? And then based off of what it actually does, then we're going to regulate it as a commodity or as a security. And I think we can take that framework a lot further. And I really hope that this evolves over time, but I think that's a great place to start.

other people's backs. And it's you know, I would imagine that once those regulatory frameworks are in place, and again Fleck better word, the clarity exists, we are going to see over the next year every significant traditional finance market participants come into this space, and I think that will rock some of the current incumbents. The level of volumes, connections, technology, sophistication of some of these Wall Street and kind of

like traditional finance firms is insane. And some of the you know, like crypto brokerage apps and things like that that have great volume today. I would argue one of the only reasons they have volume today is because people can't do this in JPM or Schwab or e Trade or other places. As soon as that turns on, I would not want to be in their.