¶ Intro
We are in a midterm election year and things are going to quickly focus to that where people are not going to want to talk about the Claritiacro bigcoin reserve anymore. It's going to be how can I win my or keep my seat or you know, support this candidate to win.
You know, the game of politics.
Is going to get nasty, it's in the news cycle is going to go crazy, and crypto will not be a high priority.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. It's like I do think legislation. I'm looking forward to it being not such a topic anymore and just being something that enters into this industry so that because regulation at the end of the day, I'm sorry it is boring.
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Hey everyone, welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast Crypto water Cooler series.
I'm Tony Edward and I'm Amanda Wackcroft and.
We're going to dive into the latest and greatest crypto news that you need to know about.
Amanda. Good to see you. Happy Friday, you.
Too, Happy Friday. We made it another week.
Yeah, right, another week.
You know.
Bitcoin is actually up this morning. It's over seventy eight thousand dollars. That's a good sign. I don't know how long it will last because I feel like we're still in the bear market, but it's good to see some green.
Absolutely, especially coming off the Bitcoin conference. They imagine that that, you know, had something to do with it.
Yeah, there were some interesting announcement announcements coming out of
¶ Bitcoin Las Vegas
the conference. But I'm hearing some not so good things about the Bitcoin Las Vegas conference.
You know, I won't name an I won't give a name, but I did.
I ran into one of the CEOs of an all coin project at the airport in Las Vegas. I was out in the desert as I was not at the conference, but he was saying it was a bit of a low turnout, not as exciting.
You know.
He gave an example of Eric Trump's speech. There was only about sixty people in the room there for that, so not really a great turnout.
Yeah, I think there's a really interesting split happening in crypto right now. And you know, not for lack of buzzwords, but it really is between signal and noise. And on one side you've got a real infrastructure getting built, you know, you've got the payments and regulation and institutional rails. And on the other side, you've got what I like to call conference theater and the hype cycles that feel increasingly
disconnected from reality. You know, And I tweeted this morning, I mean the general admission to go to this conference was six p ninety nine. Now I doubt most of the masses are doing that because it doesn't get you access to certain panels or meeting people. So you're paying that next tier is twenty one hundred a ticket. I don't know who can afford.
This, Yeah, especially in today's economy, and not to mention we are in a bear market. There's not much excitement, and I don't think a lot of people are profit right now.
I think a lot of people are in the red.
And you know, those ticket prices, they just seem like they're catering for maybe institutional folks. So it's no longer about the average Joe getting access to bitcoin. It feels like it's become this exclusive club.
It sure does, and it's you know, as a capitalist, I understand that your influencers who are there, your sponsors who are there, they're contracted to do it, and they're doing a job and they're getting paid to be there. And I think that's where it's extremely important to differentiate between who's actually there because it's their job, and who's who's there to actually learn a network. Because I don't think a lot was taken out from a substance perspective
from this conference. I was watching a lot of the reshared posts, even from Eric Trump, and it's a lot of recycled talking points that simply if you're living in crypto Twitter, you're kind of you're already hearing these things.
Yeah, to your point, there's doesn't seem to be anything new.
While we got it up date from let's say Patrick Witt, the White House crypto advisor, that there may be some significant news coming in the near term regarding the strategic Bigcoin Reserve. We've been hearing that for months, right, We've been hearing all these things. It's coming, it's coming, and there's nothing new like why do I need to go to the bigcoin conference. Maybe if I'm brand new to crypto, I may want to go, but it's still the prices are very high.
But if I already own some bigcoin, there's not reason. There's not a reason for me to go.
No.
And that's and remember too, like I'm just I'm mentioning the ticket prices. You know, I'm leaving out the fact that you have to get a hotel, you have to get airfare, and let's say oil prices are through the roof because of our involvement in Iran right now, So I really, on average on the low end, you're talking about the average person spending roughly seven to eight grand just to be there. And then again, what are you
getting out of it? You've got Tim Draper on the floor, who I saw was in a lot of selfies with people. And again there's also the origin story of bitcoin being the decent centralized peer to peer network. I realized it's matured much more and we have the you know, convergence of trad fine now, but I think that's where the conference needs to shift with that, you know, Fintech Week in New York was also this week, and I feel like it was completely overshadowed by the hype of bitcoin.
But meanwhile, Fintech Week had more substance. There were more institutional players on the ground at that conference, and most of their side events were free simply through an our SVPs. So I think we really need to navigate what we should be paying attention. But I also think that the silver lining of all of this is I think it goes to prove that the space is maturing because the Vegas conference and the big you know people are no longer convening at these types of places.
That's spot on, and some of the fintech event side shows and after events and so forth.
I got invites to them.
They it wouldn't have cost me anything to go to them, Unfortunately I was traveling.
But to your point, things have shifted.
There is much more of a crowdsourcing and focus on the building that's happening on Wall Street. And guess what, the Wall Street folks and not really attending bitcoin at Las Vegas, right, They're gonna be having their own uh summits and uh maybe on a more intimate level. And to your point, there's substance, there's talks of what they're building and Atlas Bigcoin Las Vegas. I don't think there's any talks about building. It's just hey, bigcoin's great, big
coins the story value. But like you said, we've seen and heard that before.
Yeah. Yeah.
And somebody who I really respect and follow on to Haley Lennon, you know, she was she was going on about where I'm tired of bitcoin being this this flagship conference being in Vegas. I think there's also that as well, where uh again, we're trying to legitimize this, this asset being so speculative for so many years to the masses. I don't think it's a it's prudent to do it at the one of the biggest casino cities in this country.
That's such a great point, like we're trying to get away from the cas you know, mindset right right, and that this is a mature asset that you can hold in your portfolio long term, maybe towards your retirement, treated as gold, not go through it on black or red.
Amanda, Yeah, that's what we're doing.
Yeah, but I agree with you.
¶ Clarity Act & Bitcoin Reserve
I think the one thing that came out of well two things, I think Patrick Witt, which I know we've heard before, but also Senator Loomis, who is saying we're close to a mid May markup. You know, what are your thoughts on that, because I know she's also been tweeting that a lot.
Yeah, and that's kind of annoying, even though I appreciate Senator Lumbus and the work she's done, but constantly saying the same thing over and over. But well, we're not seeing the actual action, so to speak. Right the rubbers not hitting the road here. So I don't know what is happening in DC right now. We're hearing we're close to compromise with the banks on the staplecorn yield situation, which is holding up the Claritiac.
There's talks of.
Oh, we're going to have a draft out and we're going to start the mark up, and then that gets delayed. So I don't know what is happening. I'm seeing tweets, I'm seeing people make statements, but there's no action. There's no uh, nothing coming to fruition.
No. And then you have Brad Garlinghouse who comes at the at the tail end of this thing, and there was the XRP convention at the tail end of a bitcoin the Bitcoin conference, and and he's he's saying this we've lost We've lost the opportunity or windows over. So it's it's yeah, it's weird to see this divide amongst you know, all very intelligent, powerful leaders, and so I don't know what to.
Make of it.
Yeah, it's it's really frustrating, and my hope. Look, there is a little bit of time because you and I spoke to Patrick Witt at this Swana policy summit where he said, look, I think the latest is by the August recess, so we do have some time.
But it's not looking good, Amanda.
Like my confidence level is also dropping, Like we keep saying hearing the same thing over and over, but nothing's happening right.
And it's to me, you know, I kind of laugh, like, are do people show up to bitcoin the Bitcoin conference and Senator Lummis uh, you know, gets up on stage saying, all right, guys, it's not gonna happen in May. What is she I think she has to to advocate for it or champion it in some way other way. I don't see the alternative happening, So I do. I am concerned that this won't happen this year.
Yeah, it's gonna be tough. I am curious. You know, Patrick Wood didn't mention about the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve. I want to. I'm really curious what that might be.
You know, are they going to figure out a revenue neutral way to buy bitcoin?
Although I feel the Clarity Act is more.
Important than the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve because President Trump signed the executive order, they are taking all the bitcoin confiscated by the different government agencies and putting it into that reserve.
But everybody wants to know, hey, are you going to start buying?
And I think that's that would be a huge catalyst and drive a lot of fomo. But I'm also not optimistic about that. If we can get the Clarity Act through that, you know, Congress is going to be like, yeah, go buy bitcoin.
Yeah, it's you know, and it would be if this is true.
It's a massive narrative shift, but it's it, and it does mirror how the government treats gold reserves, energy reserves. But we have to be realized as to your point, we've heard these big announcements coming before in crypto and policy. So while I think the market is cautiously optimistic, we can't just you know, the idea isn't crazy anymore.
I think that's the shift.
A few years ago this would have sounded absolutely insane. But so I am optimistic in that sense. I just don't know how the timeline of this, you know, clarity seems to be contingent on a lot of this happening.
Yeah, and then you know, we are in a midterm election year and things are going to quickly focus to that where people are not going to want to talk about the Clarity, Acro, Bigcoin Reserve anymore. It's going to be how can I win my or keep my seat or you know, support this candidate to win.
You know, the game of politics is going to get nasty.
It's the news cycle is going to go crazy, and crypto will not be a high priority.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to that.
It's like I do think legislation, I'm looking forward to it being not such a topic anymore and just being something that enters into this industry. So that because regulation, at the end of the day, I'm sorry, it is boring, but until it unlocks trillions in capital and now we're incentivizing innovation and we're bringing it all here into this country.
Yeah, we got to get it done.
But and then to your point, I am also getting tired of it, and I wish we can get it done and just move forward and just get to building and innovation and creating jobs and new companies and like you said, bringing some of those companies back to.
The US at luck.
Yeah exactly.
Now, speaking of companies that are building Amanda Tether, I mean,
¶ Tether USDT
they just released their Q one twenty six attestation. Over one billion dollars in revenue. If I'm not missing our profit, let me just able check here. Yeah, net profits over one billion dollars in net off. It's for Q one twenty twenty six.
They're doing acquisitions and much more. This company is going to bananas mad.
Yeah.
I mean this is again back to my point of well everyone's arguing about bitcoin narratives. You know here again signal versus noise. Tether is quietly becoming one of the most important financial institutions in the world. I actually was on the phone yesterday with my friend who's an MD at Canna Fitzgerald.
They just partnered with Tether and.
I did not know that, which makes them extremely marketable for IPOs and capital raises for portfolio clients and potentials. But you know, they're expanding beyond just USDT, so they're acting essentially like a shadow bank, and I think that's brilliant.
Yeah, it's fascinating. You know, there's usually a lot of flood around Tether that has been for many years. Look, I want to make sure i'm fair because I interviewed some of the co founders of Tether back in the day. I don't think there the ship was in the right place. But they've I think, you know, cleaned up their books and everything is copaesetic now and while there's people still focusing on fud, this company continues to build that one
of the most profitable companies in the world. They're doing a lot of investments now, there's talks of them proposing a merger with twenty one Capital. They're investing in AHI, they're doing tokenization of gold. It's amazing what Teather has become. And you know, do they even need to go public with the amount of money they're working.
Yeah, it's so funny that you say that.
I feel like the IPO has almost lost its luster a little bit. You know, IPOs are happening so and I think that was being pushed largely again to legitimize this industry, and I don't know exactly the whole the vetting process of going public, but it does seem to be at a rapid rate where it's it's losing it's Yeah, I don't think it's at what it once was.
Yeah, and I'm curious, you know why that is. I don't know.
People are a little bit jaded. It's also economic. You know, we're not in a great economic position where people have extra money to invest right or they're feeling very optimistic, Oh you know what, I'm going to go out and invest in this company to go in public. There's not that fervor, there's not that excitement. Again, we reference on
the economic situation. So maybe in the cyclical aspect of markets in the economy, once we're back in a better place as an economy and there's more companies going public, people will get more excited. But also to your point, I don't know if there's an underlying jadedness here that hey, ibl is who cares?
Yeah, I hope that changes too.
And I agree the economy, you know, and again going back to the Bitcoin conference and really just the opinions on a lot. Right now, we have a new administration where there's also now a divide, but you have a lot more innovation things being built that they could not have otherwise done under the previous administration, or I think even if we had Kamala Harris come in as president.
So while we should be very grateful for those things, there's also a foundation, you know, economically that we I think we had to almost break apart to build back. And I'm hopeful and I have to remain hopeful. I think you and I both tony as parents for the future, you know that we're raising our children in that this does get better.
Oh yeah, absolutely, And I reference that you know it's cyclical, so I don't While people get sometimes distracted by politics and this side versus this side, there are certain things that no party can control because it's the cyclical nature. Money printing, right and having to fight the inflation after you printed records amount of capital dollars and so forth. So I think we're going through that right now that no one president, regardless it was Kamala Harris or President Trump,
could actually change that. That is not something that is usually broadcast in the mainstream. A lot of people actually don't know how the economic and money system works. I always say if people knew what was happening at the FED, they would probably riot around the Federal Reserve building. That I'm not telling people to do that, so Federal Reserve
people of that, I don't want any in trouble. But if they understood what was happening to their currency and the impact that has, they would probably be really really upset about the FED. But they you know, there's the Democrats versus Republican and the independent in the middle and U that's just how the show goes.
Yeah, and the great choice of word the show. You know, I think we need an America first party to emerge after especially as we're seeing new digital currency coming in. I think with that we need to see new leaders come in and take the reins.
Yeah.
Absolutely, Look, I'm optimistic that you know will come out of Look, look, we always have these recessionary periods. It's just part of how the economy works. Obviously, it's rough and I'm not saying it's an easy thing to go through, but it's par for the course. Unfortunately, unless the money system changes at some point in the future, they're going to have to keep printing and I think they.
Will rent again.
We'll go to another boom cycle and then we'll go to another bus cycle.
I think we're going through a bit of a bus cycle bus cycle right now.
And you know, the the idea of learning or having financial education is so important now more than ever because the governments have kind of ran out of options. They just have to hit the money printer unfortunately. And this is where you want to hold assets like bitcoining, crypto and stocks and so forth, so you can help you help yourself and outpace that the basement.
Yeah, I think those are all very very good points.
And I yeah, I don't I don't want to get too down that rabbit hole because I want to refrain from getting too political.
But yeah, and I think those are great points.
So we got to talk about Alex Mshinsky.
¶ Celsius Alex Mashinsky no jail
Uh, this is this is one and that that's close to home because I interviewed Alex Mshinsky maybe about eight times over the past you know, seven years or so. And what really pissed me off was Alex went on TV, he went on my show and lie to people and that now we're hearing there's going to be some sort of settlement.
You know, what is your take on this?
He's you know, I think it's yeah, he's banned from crypto, and I think financial penalty. You know, a lot of people feel this doesn't match the scale of the damage done, and I have to agree with that. Retail investors lost billions, and others are arguing, you know, regulators are trying to set precedent without overreaching. Okay, you know, but I think the question is is this accountability or is this the cost of doing business in crypto?
You know?
And I I just don't really.
He did scam a lot of people, and this was in a crisis, you know, the twenty twenty two crisis of of.
Was it tetra USD oh a USD?
Yeah, And that's that's I think where this all started happening. And they throw assets and people were just like, well, where's my money? And you know, he threw his hands up to me. I am one that agrees a fine and a band from crypto. This guy probably has crypto hidden in offshore account you know where he'll just go live out.
The rest of his day is scott free.
And this industry is so niche such that Alex Mashinski can walk outside and probably most of most people won't know who he is. You know, if you're in the spate, you're a native crypto person, you would know who he is. But otherwise I think he'll just live on. And I think that's where people are upset.
Yeah, and I'm one of the punishment does not fit the crime. He should be and sometime in jail. Look, Sam Beckmanfried is in jail, rightfully, So Alice Mashinski should also be in jail. Maybe not the same level of sentencing and you know, term and so forth, but he should spend some time in jail because, like.
I said, he willingly.
He knew things were not right, and he had a kind of a bit of a ponzi running and he would come on, oh, yeah.
It's fine, put your money and you're going to earn and all these things.
And also I believe when they were about to collapse, him and some of the other executives started cashing out. Come on, man, you gotta go to jail for that, that's right.
And I'm shocked.
I mean, he must have very good attorneys or some I'm like, how did this guy get off so easy?
I really don't understand that. And he was of that campaign narrative of unbanked the banked, you know, that was the Celsius network and launching the token, and and I think it's really like you look to now and it's really like where as a publicist, you know, where it used to be the launches of these huge these token launches and press releases for announcements, you're seeing now even with Tether, the people that are actually making an impact,
it's very quiet. It's not an announcement anymore. It's not a token launch. And I'm very happy about that because obviously we've seen time and time again you're most corrupt and you're most fraudulent.
They're the loudest, they are so loud.
And they're getting create there on every you know you too, simply because they're they're getting this momentum, and it doesn't always mean there's legitimacy behind that token and that company.
Yeah, it's funny.
We saw this playout, as you said in twenty twenty two FTX very loud, very big, right, seems like, oh my god, they're gonna take over the world, But lots of bad things happening in the background. Als Maschinski promoting Celsius like crazy, remember him, I Peter Schiff had the debate and he was lying through his teeth.
Man, it was so bad.
And then of course Tara Luna, right, Luna's gonna think of the world. You know, the token was going crazy and then we know what happened after that. So to your point, a lot of the successful companies are.
Not out there being loud.
They're actually building and then when they have a product that's ready to go to production, they'll come out and tell the public.
Yeah, I think part of this convergence TRADFI and crypto, like we always discussed, you know, that's just it. Tratfi has the reputation, it has the credibility that crypto is slowly trying to grasp right now because of the compliance, because of the regulation. You know, these conferences that Tradify
and these institutions have been doing for decades. They're free, they're and they're small, but there are huge turnouts where they are sold out and they're turning people away and you don't hear about them, but they're they're on the ground, they're.
Convening at these places.
And so I think crypto needs to kind of get the ball rolling in that's in a similar direction.
Oh absolutely, Yeah, there's still a bit of maturing that needs to happen growing up right from that perspective, and you know you mentioned earlier it shouldn't happen in Las Vegas.
No, but you know, speaking of the building, Amanda, you know that these institutions are doing. Meta launched a USD
¶ Meta USDC Stablecoin
staple coin USDC excuse me, staple coin payouts to creators via stripe on the Solana and Polygon blockchains. Specifically, it is a pilot happening in Colombia and Philippines and is the first crypto payments product since the Libra collapse in twenty twenty two. I think this is significant. And boy was Facebook ahead of the curve and now years later day.
Able to do something.
Yeah, he sure was. And what a testament to the time.
You know, when Libra was first created in twenty nineteen, and this was you know, he was creating just very fast payments through Messenger or WhatsApp, and it was at the time the government was very concerned that he was creating this private global currency. And I remember that was backed by Visa, that was backed by PayPal. I mean, he had huge players. But the government came in and was like, wait a second, what is this guy doing so.
He was certainly early.
It was designed as a stable coin, and now he's kind I wonder what Mark Zuckerberg thinks. Of course, billionaires have access to a lot more than we do. But he Yeah, I'm happy he's back in the playing field, and I hope this time he does it, you know, with success.
Yeah, And I think the Genius Act passing gives all these companies the green light and the confidence to go build and integrate stable coins. What I'm curious about the Amanda you know, are they just testing at USDC in this these small markets say let's see how it goes. But they are building their own stable coin, which I think would make a lot of sense for them, right, given me a network that they have with different social
platforms Instagram and so forth, and the amount of users. Boy, if they launch your own stable point, they can get mass adoption very quickly. You can be very competitive and not to mention, you know, gain the benefits of having a stable coin because you can earn the interest perking it, you know, the fat and so on and so forth.
Yeah, and it's like we just said, you know, crypto adoption, it's not going to come from the big launches. It's going to come from these quiet integrations like this. So I think it's really smart that the way that they're approaching this.
Yeah, and I interviewed recently the head of crypto at PayPal, and you know, one of the things they're doing, they're working with YouTube where the PayPal stable coin is being used to pay out to creators.
That's something I actually have to test that myself, but it looks.
Like they're piloting the creator aspect of it, which makes sense, you know, because they already they already have the payments rails going there. And then I can imagine they're going to open it up to general users on Facebook and all these different platforms to be able to move money.
So it's going to.
Get really competitive and I'm really really excited to see how that plays out.
Yeah.
See, that's the that's to me, that's the most important part of crypto growing is that the community aspect has to be Nobody needs to say, you know, I'm using blockchain technology. You know. I always equate it to if when when Facebook first came around and everybody's logging on starting their accounts. You know, we're not going into the tech of it we're not going to the nitty. We're just using it because it's connecting us to other people, and the same thing has to happen here.
It should be very user friendly.
It should be easy to you know, people don't even know they're using blockchain technology. It's the fact that they it's easy, it's fast, and it's accessible. So I think the creator economy tapping into that is key.
Yeah, that's a great point.
It has to just be running behind the scenes and to the average Joe and Jay, it just works. It offers great benefits, faster, cheaper, and so on and so forth.
But it just works.
They don't need to know it's this state look coin, it's this blockchain Salona versus Polygon or.
Whatever it is. They don't need to see the how the sausages made it.
Just it just works, and that's how you're gonna get mass adoption, exactly. I'm curious to see which other big companies come out, you know, as we head later into this year, because as you can imagine, I don't think Google is going to sit around. I mentioned YouTube before, and it's owned by Google, but I feel like Google's cooking out something. They're going to do something more Microsoft
as well. I feel all these guys probably have a stable coin, tokenization, crypto strategy and one way or the other. And I'm sure we're going to see more announcements because you know game theory.
No one wants to get left behind.
Wait a minute, Meta is doing this, yout have we got to do it too.
No, it's true, and that's the beauty, you know, that's that's that's what we need. We need competition. We need healthy competition in this country. We need entrepreneurship, We need more innovators who know that these big corporations are looking for those types of entrepreneurs to buy up or somebody with a good idea that maybe they didn't think of, Like this is the whole point of capitalist that this is the positive of capitalism.
So I'm happy to see that that's all coming back.
Oh yeah, and that's why you know we mentioned earlier, we need that Clarity Act task to have capitalism be put to work in a greater fashion with crypto, to create more companies, more jobs, because the technology is not going away across the globe. All major countries are now embracing it. They're putting in the rules and the guidelines. But they're not banning it anymore. Uh, and especially China, you know, they certainly want to take it as much
advantage of it as possible. And look, they're our biggest competitor as far as world superpowers.
So yeah, well they had a lot more time than we did. Unfortunately under Biden we were so restricted did and a lot of your your crypto minors you know, went offshore and because they weren't allowed to do it here.
And so as we're bringing this all back, it will.
Take time, but hopefully hopefully we wind up neck and neck, if not further ahead.
Yeah, and the Clariac would be a big chess move on the board. And hopefully the next time we meet and have a water cooler episode.
There's some more positive action, not news, but just action. We've got we're moving into the market phase now, Yes.
And I appreciate all these senators and what they're doing, and but enough of the tweets of you know, it's moving forward, it's gonna you know, get this pat like, just let's see it happen. Like I think people are a bit exhausted who've been around of hearing that, like, let's let's get it done.
Absolutely, Manda great stuff and everyone, we will catch you in the next episode and as mentioned, hopefully we have some very actionable news items around the Clarity Act. But Cryptos here to say the technology is here to stay and we just got to get through this regulatory piece and we'll be in a clear runway to start building.
Yeah, catch you next time, everybody. Thanks Tony,