The most exciting part of this to me is, and again some of our Democrat friends could disagree with this a little bit, but these bills are going to be written from Main Street to Washington, not from Washington, DC to Main Street. For far too long, we've had bureaucracies literally drafting the legislation.
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Welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast.
I'm your host, Tony Edward, and joining me today is Congressman Tom Emmer, who's the majority whip of the United States House of Representatives. Congressman Emmer, Great to see you.
Great to see you, Tony.
Congressman. I have a big smile on my face because we've been talking for what is it three four years now, with all the madness that happened on their di Biden and administration, we saw how the elections played out. Looking back, you know, what are your thoughts on how this all played out?
For crypto and much more? Well, it is for much more, you know, it's I think the American people. The unique part about this last election is they had an opportunity to know what the one choice, what the economy was like under one choice, because they saw that for four years at least up until it was interrupted by the pandemic, and then they got to see what the economy looked like under the last administration for four years, and it was a pretty easy choice. Now what came with that?
I mean, the attacks on President Trump using the court system are really not that far away from the attacks on the crypto industry and the digital assets industry by one Gary Gensler and others through the SEC and the Executive agency apparatus. It's really interesting to see that the mainstream media tony of which you are not part of it, thank god, they're desperately trying to spin stories about the economy,
about Trump, about well, guess what. The economy is going to take a little bit of time, but it's coming back. We've solved the immigration crisis at least for now. We're going to have to have long term solutions for this so that we have people coming to this country because we've got jobs. Right, and speaking of jobs, the digital asset community is here to stay right this new administration, Paul Atkins just being confirmed the other day, it shows
that we are open for business. They're dropping all of the misguided lawsuits and legal action against these different entities. You remember, over the course of four years, Gary Gensler at the SEC used to say, come on in, my door open, and when you'd leave, you'd be delivered a summon shortly after that or some other legal document telling you that you are now under scrutiny from Gary and his colleagues. That's over. That's over. I think we all recognize that it's time to get back to what makes
this country great, which is innovation. It's innovation, it's taking risk. Yeah, we want to make sure that people are protected, but let's not protect people to the point where they're not able to do anything. I mean, it was a stark choice, and I think the results speak for themselves. I'll just add one more thing, because you know how I feel about the digital assets community in the crypto industry. It's
not partisan. It's not about Republicans or Democrats. And I think that vote last November was as much about people, just ordinary people in America saying I've had enough of this finger pointing, I've had enough of this blame game. I want you guys to get something done for once, and I don't care what your political stripe is. I want you to be doing the right thing for the right reasons. And again, I think that is beginning to happen.
Yeah, well put and you know, adding tonally, I know from friends and family, both Democrats and Republicans, they are involved in crypto in one way or the other, and they're not thinking about it politically. But unfortunately Elizabeth Warren Gary Ginster made a political in the Alasta you know regime.
Of course.
Do you think Gary Ginster will be working in government again. I see him popping up out of all of a sudden talking about crypto.
I hope not. I mean, I just got back from a trip to California to see some of our friends, and I understand that there are many in the digital assets community who have pledged they will not hire any talent, and there's a ton of it at M I t unless than until Gary Genslers fired. Carrie Ginstler really proved himself to be one of the most disingenuous or more directly put, dishonest individuals that we dealt with in the
last administration. I don't know how he thinks he can move from a black cape to a different cape overnight, right that he can be one person before he went into the administration, and that was when he was teaching this very subject to students, M I T. Then he becomes Darth Vader of the you know, the evil Empire that was the last administration where he was carrying the water for Elizabeth Warren and Shared Brown and others. That just they're deathly afraid Tony, and you know this, this
is your message all the time. They're deathly afraid of what decentralization offers. It offers Tony and Tom the ability to do business directly with one another and not have the long arm of the government or in this case, the Gary Genslers of this world getting in between our transactions and trying to frustrate our ability to innovate and create and provide for the next generation. I hope he is never employed in an executive branch type function again.
You know, if he has, I'd be concerned even having him employed by the National Park System because I don't know that he's giving me. I don't know that he'd be giving me the honest advice on my trails.
Well put, now, President Trump promise has made, promises kept. He's done a lot so far for the crypto industry. He recently signed into law the first crypto build signed into law the repeal of the IRS DeFi rule. Tell us about this and how significant it was.
Well, the IRS rule, which was finalized in last December. December of twenty twenty four, was following or pursuant to the Portman Amendment in the twenty twenty one Infrastructure Bill. And I should have said the infamous Portman Amendment in the twenty twenty one Infrastructure Bill. It's time that these misguided rules are gone. And I mean, this is, like you say, promises made promises. Capt Trump told us this is what he was going to do if he was elected,
and this is exactly what he's going to do. The important thing here, though, to me, goes back to the beginning of our conversation where we're talking about it not being a partisan issue. You realize that this cra received seventy six Democrats, almost one hundred Democrats voted for it in the House, and you had almost twenty Democrats voting for it in the sentence. So, like I say, last November was more about, hey, let's get stuff done. Stop
wearing different colored jerseys and running into each other. We don't mind the debate, but you gotta get something done. And what this shows is we're starting to move in that direction. Not only do we have a president who made a promise and he's keeping that promise, but we have a House and a Senate the Congress that is actually starting to work together to get these misguided policies out of the way.
Yeah, absolutely so, Congressman number do you foresee this being the start of getting bills through and signing to law this year? Because the Market Structure and stable Coin bill are the meat and potatoes, right, everyone's waiting on those. What can you tell us there about the timeline and meeting President Trump's you know, his timeline of get it to my desk before the August recess.
Yeah. I've heard a bunch about this, and obviously I'm in the middle of it. We've got a couple of great shares in the Senate, in the House that are moving things at Tim Scott over in the Senate in french Hill. Here in the House, the Genius I Act, the stable Coin version of the bill, the Senate bill, Bill Haggerty's bill is moving. It got out of committee. It's not entirely in alignment. I mean, there are some differences between the House and the Senate. The Senate bill,
stable Coin Bill, we've seen the Market Structure Bill. We don't have text yet, but the President, you might remember, at the Crypto Summit that was held in the White House a few weeks ago, I said he wanted both the Market Structure Bill and the stable Coin Bill, and I will tell you that he also wants my prohibition on central bank digital currencies, which he promised to outlaw during the campaign. He wants those on his desk by
the August recess. So that should give you a good timeline as to what's going to happen in the House and the Senate. I expect we're going to start moving the two bills in the in the House very soon, and then it's going to take seven senators over in the In the Senate, we're going to have to have seven Democrats that vote with us. But the twenty that voted for the cra that we just talked about, that bodes well for getting both of these, both of these bills through the process.
Comains memory, do you think we're going to have kind of as far as you know, how old I am. I remember the nineteen ninety six bill, which was amazing for the Internet. It opened up tons of innovation and prosperity, and we had Google and Amazon, all these great companies come out of that. Are we about to have that moment here? When these bills are passed, it opens up innovation and jobs and wealth creation and much more.
What these will do. And let's make sure that everybody that's paying attention to your podcast understands they should not expect either of these bills to be absolutely perfect. We need them to be as good as they can possibly be, because what they're going to provide, Tony is the ground rules.
They're going to tell everyone who wants to innovate and create here in the United States of America, this is what you can expect so they can plan so they're not wasting millions of dollars on lawyers fighting with misguided bureaucrats. So this is Congress saying, all right, look, we're stepping in. We're telling you here the ground rules if you want to if you want to create stable coins and utilize that dollar back stable coins, this is what it has
to look like. Put the guidelines on it so people can predict and plan and do all the things necessary to start new ventures. The same same thing with the Market Structure Bill. The Market Structure Bill. It's kind of twofold for me. It creates a playing field where people understand who their regulator is, so you're not being overly regulated by every single darn regulator in the federal government, which they all seem to want a piece of it.
So let's make sure that people know who they're dealing with in the government, what it is they have to provide to the government and to the public, so that we can allow them to get moving. The most exciting part of this to me is, and again some of our Democrat friends could disagree with this a little bit, but these bills are going to be written from main Street to Washington, not from Washington, d C. To mainstream. For far too long, we've had bureaucracies literally drafting the legislation.
And I learned this firsthand in the last Congress when I was getting a little frustrated and I realized, well, one of the reasons is because the FED has staff loaned to the House Committee, which is great, but the Fed has their own view of these things. I want the entrepreneur's view, I want the innovator's view. I want the view from main Street where you're trying to create, not from Washington, d C. Where you're trying to regulate.
And to your point, having the crypto industry weigh in, are you for seeing that specific agencies which you know are going to play a critical role here, such as the SEC and the CFDC, they're going to weigh in as well. Maybe Paul Atkins will work with Congress to get some sort of structure in for securities or non securities.
Yeah, I mean, you've got our cryptos are in his able Deputy Beau Hinds. They're weighing in. Obviously, they're kind of a what would you call it, They're kind of a the circuit that things are going into. You've got Adkins, you're going to have the CFTC, you're going to have
the FDIIC, all of these entities. From the Trump perspective now right, not from what was yesterday, but from the perspective that we need this exciting new twenty first century finance developing and blossoming right here in the United States of America, much like we allowed the Internet to do that. As you referenced after the nineteen ninety six law, it's we can become victims of our own need to regulate
and restrict We've got to open it up. The best innovation comes when people are free to try things, to think outside the box, and do things that other people said could never happen. It's we're getting back to that. That is a benefit of the new Trump administration. But the people you're talking about have been chosen by Trump because the goal is to open this up and allow this innovation and creation to occur again.
And in regards to the stable Coin Bill, is there more of an urgency there because of its geopolitical implications? For example, helping to maintain the world reserve currency, which is the US dollar because US dollar back stable coins can be used by different companies even outside the United States, and those stable coin issues in their reserves will have to buy US treasuries. Is there a higher level of urgency for that?
Not for me? I know in the Senate, yes, I mean they're looking at it as the stable Coin Bill is. At least this is what I've been led to believe. They think that's the one that beats to move right away. I can tell you that my chairman, at least up till now, is saying you don't get one without the other.
But to your point, I mean the excitement around a dollar back stage coin is all about shoring up the reserve currency status at the US dollar and imagine a world where we can export US dollars, which is essentially what we'll be doing. But as french Hill would tell you, because he's told me, the problem is without a market structure Bill, you're missing part of the equation. People need to know what the rules are. It isn't just about a stable coin and who's creating it. It's really about
how we're developing digital assets. What's a commodity, what's a security, what's a what's currency? Right? A dollar back stable coin literally, I'm going to just imagine wouldn't just be currency, It could be part of a security. So you need the you need the market structure Bill. I tend to agree with french Hill, you can do both at the same time.
And I understand where the Senate's coming from, and we'll see that's why this government was set up this way, right, because one person isn't necessarily right, and you got to have the different ideas. You got to have the tension between the two bodies, and that way you get the best results. So I'm confident that regardless of how it ends up, we're getting both of them. Yeah, that's a great point.
The two bills dovetailed together because if you want to issue a stable coin, well which blockchains can you issue them on? You need the clarity from the market instructure to tell you that great point. Now there's also the talks of setting up a bitcoin reserve and a digital stockpile. A congress member, I'm fascinated by this because I feel it's like another Breton Woods moment after World War Two. Of course gold US dollar bitcoin being used by different
central banks and governments around the world. What are you hearing there and what's the likelihood of this getting passed?
Well, I mean the President Trump last month already sign an executive order that creates a strategic Bitcoin Reserve and a digital stockpile. Both both are going to hold, are going to hold on to, or be based on seized crypto assets. And the executive order also directed relevant agencies to investigate ways that we can bolster the reserve and the stockpile without spending tax payer dollars. So, I mean, it couldn't be a more clear statement as to what
they expect. I think the real question there is it's an executive order. The agencies are going to get to work on what is necessary and what is possible. But Congress at some point has to look an executive order like this, Tony, and how do we turn that into federal code. Because what we don't want to see happen is this administration is crypto friendly and is putting this out there to move us in the direction of twenty
first century financial services. We don't need the next administration coming in much like we saw with the last one and suddenly pulling the rug out from underneath everybody that's doing these things. It's I think it's a little different when the granted when it's a bitcoin a strategic bitcoin reserve, as opposed to when it's some of the other executive
orders he's done. But I really do think there's a place for Congress to get involved in this and make sure that it lasts and grows as opposed to it's here today and gone tomorrow. Yeah.
Great point. So I'm assuming David Sachs and his team they're going to try to find the revenue revenue neutral avenue to be able to facilitate this and then pitch it to Congress to get that into some sort of law.
Well, we've got members doing it too, But yes, David Sachs and Bohinz and his entire group are going to be providing a lot of the substance for this. But it's interesting. We've got nick I get Choose carrying a bill, We've got others that are looking at this in more details. So look for a what a partnership between the executive branch and the legislative branch to get this thing done now.
And by the way, I'm one of those that no, we're not going to have taxpayers buying bitcoin to put in the strategic reserve, but there are ways I imagine that are going to be a revenue neutral to do that.
Oh for sure.
Now a congressmanmember.
One of the big things that are being discussed and that's still in the process, is banks being able to fully participate in crypto. We've had to repeal a SAB one two one. The FDIC and the OCC have loosen restrictions. The FED just last week made some updates. But I saw Senator Cynthia Alumbus and some other folks like Katon Lung said it's kind of lip service. They haven't fully removed the restrictions they have had over the years. That seems to be the head of the snake here. What
do you hear in that front? And when could they fully open things up?
Well, I mean, this is going to be an ongoing process. Right. There were a lot of land mines that were buried by the last administration that we're just going to have to go after one at a time. But the Trump administration is working on, I would say, over time to remove these Biden era red tape type land mines that were planted, and they're trying to reverse obviously the law
fair against the crypto community. When I was at the Crypto summit, I loved one of the crypto folks well known that said, you know, wow, we're in the White House. A year ago, if you would have told me the crypto industry would be sitting in the White House at a crypto summit, I wouldn't have believed you. I would have believed we were more likely to be in jail. Right. So the Trump administration is working to get that stuff
behind us so the crypto innovation I can thrive. And that the I got to add, it's not just that the crypto administration can thrive it's so the existing financial system can develop alongside of it. Right. We don't want to kill one at the expense of the other. We need them both. We have the best markets in the world in this country, and our two tier legacy banking system and payment system has work beautifully. But it's now time for digital. You don't want to lose what you
already have. You want to bring that into the twenty first century at the same time. So I just believe that digital assets is going to offer users a choice to engage in peer to peer transactions like I was talking about with Tony and Tom and do those online. But there's always, in my opinion, going to be a need for intermediaries like banks, and we've got to protect those.
Absolutely, comes van Emma. Thank you so much. I know you got to run and I appreciate it. And hopefully our next conversation will be the bills have been I have been sitting on President Trump's desk and you know we got we're ready for signatures.
Yes, I would love to be doing a victory dance come August.
Awesome, Thank you so much.
All right, Tony, take care