¶ Intro
The idea behind ever North is like, really to make it easier for folks to buy, hold and get exposure to XRP. It's like, let's make it as easy as buying Tesla stock in your brokerage account. I wanted to see the XRP ecosystem grow, and so I started thinking about what would make it easier for institutions to develop products, for developers to build more products on the XRP ledger and other blockchains as well.
So, in regards to you everyone, how are you going to be buying the XRP and how are you going to be custoding it?
Yeah, so we'll be using all mechanisms available to buy XRP on the market.
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includes Ripples, r L USD. You can earn up the five percent on that stable coin and five point two five percent on USBC. So if you'd like to learn more about Uphold and all the great services they offer, visit the link in the description. Hey folks, welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host Tony Edward and joining me today's Ashish Berla, who is the CEO of ever North, which is an XRP focused digital APPA said treasury company. She's great to have you.
Tony, thank you again for having me on your pod, And well, I want to thank you Tony. You've been such a big supporter of the entire XRP ecosystem through the thick through the thin. Thank you for all your support. You're one of the good guys out there. I appreciate that.
And the last time we saw each other or even spoke to each other was last year Ripple Swell in Miami. I think we were both a little drunk, but it was good times.
Yeah. I mean, it's always always a good time to see you, Tony. You know, Miami's a is a great city. You know. I'll be in New York for Ripples Swell conference. I'm excited to m see that event, and then I'll be speaking on a panel as well, moderated by Michael Arrington about ever North.
Yeah, it's exciting. She So, you know, after you left Ripple,
¶ Working in crypto after Ripple
was this the project you were working on or were you doing other things?
Yeah? So I stayed connected to the crypto ecosystem, you know, over the time on a personal behalf. I've made over you know twenty digital asset and infrastructure as investments in the crypto space, mainly because I believe in the space, uh, you know, for the long term, and I wanted to see the XRP ecosystem grow, but I think it needed
more infrastructure around it. It was still too hard to build products in crypto in general, and so I started thinking about, well, what would make it easier for institutions to develop products, what would make it easier for developers to build more products on the XRP ledger and other blockchains as well.
Absolutely, and actually, I mean we went through a very hard time, you know, four years of Gary Genser, and
¶ US being pro crypto
but it seems like that the tide has changed. The industry is being embraced by the United States. And how are you feeling about this new environment? And you know, tradifying all these companies now coming in and building.
You know, you're seeing stable coins. You know, just get the Genius Act passed and within a few months it's already up, you know, twenty percent in terms of market cap post you know, Genius Act becoming you know law, and you're going to see that same ecosystem development as new laws are passed in government. But again, Tony, you hit it on the head that the administration is behind
innovative technologies like blockchain. And by the way, this this should sound familiar because in the nineties the government got behind the Internet, and now you see post nineties the growth in the Internet. But again, good regulation, good legislation helps spur innovation and growth and going to see that with with blockchain as well. Yeah.
Absolutely, And many people are waiting for the Clarity Act specifically to pass. You mentioned the Genius Act specifically for stable coins, but the market structure has the meat and potatoes, and I can't wait to see post Clarity Act passing what innovators and entrepreneurs do. I'm excited to see the innovation agreed.
You know, I think there is there's a waiting demand for folks to join, institutions to join. I think the rest of the world also looks at the United States and what they're doing on the regulatory and legislative front, and and so, you know, while we think it's a big deal in the United States, I'm also excited to see how the other nations around the world, some that have already been leaders in this space, you know, past local legislation to support this industry. Because blockchain isn't a
domestic technology. The beauty of this technology and the XRP ledger is that it's global in nature, and that's open in nature, and that really enables the world's financial institutions to build upon each other.
¶ Global markets via Blockchain
Yeah, sheez, what do you think about this? Because this is something I've been noodling on and talking a lot about on the pod. You mentioned the openness and the reach that this technology has, a blockchain technology, the xt racy ledger and so forth.
But it seems like for.
The first time we will have truly global markets. You know, there's some people who are going to say, well, what about gold. A lot of people around the world, different central banks hold gold, but you can't view it real time. You can't verify this the amount in a storage or in a bank, or if it's real. You can't have instance settlement. It's not portable. But I feel like this technology brings all those attributes that make it real time. I can look at it on my phone.
Yeah, that's the beauty of it. It's real time, it's counterparty free, and you know, you can see a world where you know, folks over time move from gold in other assets into digital assets and other cryptocurrens these like even uh, you know, for central banks, even for reserves, uh and treasuries, and I know we're going to talk about that today. Maybe that's the first step. So corporate
treasuries being the innovators, start holding digital assets through public equities. Uh, Like what we're going to be building at ever North. Uh and uh that is how things get started. But maybe in the future you'll see central banks uh and others also want to hold digital assets on in their reserves, and I think that's going to be a very interesting future that will onfold. But again you started the conversation with the regulation. Regulations got to pass. Is got to pass globally for sure.
So let's talk ever North to give an overview of
¶ Evernorth XRP's mission
this company. Uh, what's the mission and why XRP was chosen as the digital asset.
Yeah, so yeah, the mission is is really to make it easier for folks uh to buy hold and get exposure to XRP. Uh. It's it's for for us, Tony. We've been in this space a long time. We know how to manage wallets, we know how to you know, manage cryptocurrencies. But for the large part of the world that it's too difficult for big institutions that want exposure
to this asset class and XRP that's too complicated. So the idea behind ever North is like, let's make it as easy as buying Tesla stock in your brokerage account, your e trade account, your fidelity account, your Robinhood account. Just like you buy that stock, you can buy XRP and the ticker for ever North and you get exposure to XRP as an asset class. And we don't stop there.
You also get to participate in the strategies that will develop at ever North, like yield strategies, and with those yield strategies, the yield, a portion of that yield that we generate will go back into the treasury. Let's we'll use that yield to buy more XRP and add to the treasury. And the goal here for ever North shareholders is to maximize XRP per share. And why did I
choose XRP. I'll answer that question. Well, One, I really believe in this future that the world is going to be the financial world is going to be reformed, and there's going to be a revolution, and that revolution is going to start on a blockchain and it's spurred by that innovation around the blockchain. And early on the XRP and creators decided that they wanted to build a blockchain that was optimized for financial use cases. This is back
in twenty twelve. Maybe that's mainstream now, but this is back in twenty twelve to create an ecosystem, to create a technology that's optimized for payments, as optimized for tokenized assets. Today we call those real world assets or r w as. But the ability to have these equities, real estate and so forth, tokenized and available for the world on a blockchain, that's, uh, that's what the XRP, leisure and supporting technologies are good for.
So you know, I I I, uh, you know, decided XRP obviously, uh, you know, with my you know history, that made a lot of sense. But I also noticed Tony that there's no digital asset treasury of significance around uh XRP and uh, and that made it a no brainer. Let's go and let's go do it for sure.
So would be safe to say you're looking to become the micro strategy of XRP, you know, micro strategy specifically focused on bitcoin, you know.
Like I'm excited about building on the XRP ecosystem. I think the world should know about what's going on in terms of financialization on a blockchain, and I think the world's going to look very different in ten years than it is from now in the financial world because of technologies like XCRP. But also all the accompanied technologies that support the infrastructure around XRP, like the stable coin which is growing rapidly that serves Tony as on and off raps.
That was a big piece that was missing. How do you get onto a blockchain? Well, stable coins solves a part of that, and ever North helps institutions and retail investors get on and off and participate in the ecosystem, the DeFi ecosystem around the XRP ledger as well.
So with regards to you ever North, and this is a rookie question because I'm still trying to grasp the idea fully of digital aster treasure companies. Is that a company that existed before with surch of services and products or is it a brand new company specifically focused on the x RP treasury or does it have, like I said, other means of revenue and services and things like that.
Now we are one hundred percent focused on XRP. We are we're building, uh you know, a digital asset treasury, but it's an active uh you know treasury, and that we will be putting the XRP to use. Well, well, we have a trade fies, a traditional strategy, and we have a DeFi strategy, and we want to use the XRP ecosystem to generate yield on the defile strategy side of things. That'll help that ecosystem flourish. That will also be good for the ever North Digital Asset treasury as well.
Let's double click a bit on the DeFi component because
¶ Using DeFi
that's going to be something many people are interested in. How you're generating the yield. Are you planning to use like protocol like Flare or other protocols.
So we're we're in discussions with a lot of the protocols out there. You know, we we have to close the transaction first before you know, participating in those yield generation products. But you know, part of the reason that every North exists is to you know, cultivate those yield strategies, build those yield strategies directly on the XRP ledger, and use XRP in the ecosystem to develop those yield strategies. And so I'm excited about that. You know, I'm a
longtime product builder. Nothing gets me more excited than see that ecosystem flourish. And again, I think one thing Tony that was missing was like how do you get institutional capital to participate in that ecosystem. I mean DeFi in general has been you know, humming alan it has been growing at an okay clip for the last four or five years, has a lot of pumps and bruises. But
this might be the missing sort of adapter connection. Now you have real capital coming in and this is just the start to help you get those defive protocols to mature and grow and really compete with the traditional finance world. And again you saw that with stable coins. You saw
that with stable coins as well. Is that it was humming and hawing along for almost a decade and then things got real when that regulation passed, and now institutions turning to stable coins for adoption for payments and other use cases. But you're going to see that same thing happen here in the decentralized finance world as well, with lending protocols and everything else that we haven't even imagined yet.
Absolutely something that came to mind, and I've seen other
¶ Yield strategy and buying XRP
dats do this, and it may be true early for you to answer this question, But what the yield is it going to be? Some of it paid out in a dividend or reinvested into the respective treasury you.
Know, our plans right now are to uh you know, reinvest that into the treasury. Again, the the metric that we are maximizing for uh is XRP per share and uh you know that the plan is is to get that yield uh and then go back into the treasury. So if that yield is giving us US dollars, you know, we'll use a portion of that to eventually go back in and buy more XRP for the treasury. Got it? That makes sense.
A big question a lot of folks want to know is how are you going to be buying the x RP and how are you going to be custoding it? Are you buying OTC on the open market? Things along those lines.
Yeah, so you know we'll we'll be using all mechanisms available to uh, you know buy x RP on the market. It's it's still growing tony the market. UH. So you know, we want to make sure that we're balanced and measured in how we uh you know buy XRP uh for the treasury. So the good thing is we have a lot of experience uh, you know managing treasuries. UH will do the most efficient thing out there. But again, it's getting easier and easier.
Uh.
You know, back in the early days, there were just a couple of exchanges available. Now there's hundreds around the world that trade cryptocurrencies, and now you you know, you're seeing even you know, bigger players jump into the the the ecosystem as well. So exciting to see this market develop, uh. And it's also exciting to see XRP uh being the third largest uh you know digital asset you know, volume
wise depending on the uh you know, the venue. But that makes it also very interesting, uh in terms of uh, you know, a digital asset treasury, and that also makes it really interesting in the times of yield strategies that we could potentially deploy, uh once this transaction closes.
Yeah, for sure, you mentioned the demand for XRP. We've
¶ XRP ETFs
seen a lot of ETF SPOTTYTF filings still on the table waiting for the SEC to take action. In addition, you had XRP futures go live on the CMEME and so forth, and there's been a lot of institutional demand. So I think it's like perfect timing that you guys are launching this digital asset treasury company focus on XRP, because how things have changed. She i mean, you know, obviously the sec Ripple lawsuit has concluded after you know,
years of going back and forth. But you know, the sun is shining down now on us and the dark clouds have gone away, and there's a lot of demand for this asset.
Yeah, it definitely feels like a new day Tony Like, it definitely feels like, you know, we started off as infants in this industry and now we're you know, becoming adults. And you know, I'm I'm happy to be part of the adult movement in digital assets. And part of that adult movement is getting institutions to adopt I don't think this ecosystem. I don't think cryptocurrencies will flourish until there
is broad based adoption by institutions out there. And again, ever north is one tool to help get institutional adoption, making it easier to participate in in the crypto economy, uh, making it easier to participate in this financial future that will be built on blockchains. But there's going to be other tools that we need. We talked about regulation and the and the right kind of legislation, but we need more, you know, tools around their ets being a great one,
see me futures trading. XRP another great tool. And again this is all part of the adult growing up process that the whole industry is h is now participation the end, thankfully, thankfully.
Yeah, for sure. Now I read you guys are raising one billion dollars to buy x RP. Of course, is that a cap or in the future you may raise additional capital? And who have who are the folks who have participated so far in the capital?
Yeah, that's a that's a good question. So you know, we'll we'll stay active out there. Uh. You know, we don't have any plans uh to stop uh, And so we'll you know, you know, as soon as the transaction is closed, we'll again look at additional opportunities. But the idea is not to stop at a billion in uh, you know, treachery uh And and I'm happy Tony to be supported by world class investors. And one thing that
we do want to do is expand internationally. Uh. You may know that XRP is as widely popular in Korea and in Japan, and having s b I uh, you know, participate in ever North's you know financing is going to potentially help unlock those Asian markets for US as well. So that post closed transaction, looking to those kinds of expansion opportunities is going to be a high priority for
the North team. And again, we're lucky to have world class investors from SBI, Ripple, Errington, XFP Capital, and several others join us in this journey.
Yeah, definitely. I remember SBI, and I forgot the CEO.
Yoshitaka Katao Son. Yeah, excellent, excellent leader.
Yeah, I remember following him over the years and the different things he would say, and reading the SBI reports, quarterly reports and things like that. So it's awesome to see that they continue to participate in the ecosystem and much more.
Yeah, they have been excellent leaders and excellent partners over the year, and I'm very very gracious that they are part of this journey as well at ever North.
So she's you got this trend right, Digital ACCID treasury
¶ Preparing for bear market
companies is growing. It's happening around the globe. Folks are using different crypto assets. How are you guys preparing for, let's say, a downturn in a bear market? Is one of the things that things that concern me is potentially some of these companies may not be managed well and there could be some blow ups in the bear market, or it might have to be some consolidation. But how are you guys preparing for possible bear market and market downturns.
That's a great question, Tony, and Hey, like I am also concerned as I look at other treasuries in the market that don't seem like they have formidable leadership teams or even full time leadership teams. Well, what you get at ever North is as a team that is purpose built for you know, something like XRP Digital Asset Treasury in Evernorth. You know, you get me that is the
weather as they come in crypto. You know, having been been in the industry since twenty thirteen and seeing the winters, the summers, the falls, all four seasons, Tony just doesn't you know, a downturn doesn't phaze me. You know, there are you know, some of the best opportunities are available in downturns. What you have to do is plan for the long term. And that's what this team is about. We stick with things, we build for the long term. We don't get too high in the highs, we don't
get too low in the lows. We sort of stay even keeled and build it, build it out, so you know, in the downturns, we'll be ready and here there are opportunities for those that are patient. For sure.
Now I saw and correct me if I'm wrong. A
¶ Listing on Nasdaq
listing on the NASTAC that that got approved this week. What can you tell us there? And can both retail and institutional investors access it?
So what you say, saw I was? I was the ticker symbol x RPN go live in That ticker symbol is now tradable on the on the nasdack. We expect that to happen sometime in quarter one of twenty twenty six. Got I got it? Okay, So I was.
My next question was going to be if the government shut down is slowing things down for you guys as it is with everything else.
But hey, like listen, it might be slowing things down for the government, but we're we're busy here at ever North. We're busy thinking about how to leverage the XRP ecosystem. We're thinking about, uh, you know, how to build the right kind of risk tools out there so that we can scale uh you know, in in the in the right way. We're gonna you know, measure twice and cut once. Uh,
that's our plan. So that kind of tooling is really important for these digital assets treasuries to scale, especially if you want to participate in the decentralized finance ecosystem DeFi. You need to have the right kind of risk tools, You need to have the right kind of experience and have that built ahead of time. So those are things that we can, you know, continue to build and plan for and the SEC and the government there's not much I can do other than call a couple of folking,
you know, let's speed it up. But the rest of the world is doing the same thing. So you know we're back here busy building for sure.
Yeah that you know, we can't control that, right the government. It is what it is. We're all in the same boat there. But we got a bunch of XRP ETFs, I know, I mentioned it earlier, a lot of spotty tfs that are seems to be they're going to be approved by the SEC. I'm curious of what your take is on the dynamic between a digital aster treasury company versus an ETF and I know this the dats give
a new pathway for people to invest. What is your take on the two products and they seemed to be competing in a way, and how do you think that all plays out?
Well, hey, listen, like they're the one. The great thing is we're even having this discussion around uh, you know x r P e t fs and digital asset treasuries. Like who would have thought a couple of years ago that we would even have these discussions. So, hey, look, the industry is maturing. If the industry continues to grow together, you know, all these different players are going to do well. Uh. And you know the the x RP ETFs and the
other ETFs out there. Hey, there's uh, there's there's potential collaborations there as well. But I'd say one big difference between an ETF Towny and a digital asset treasury like ever North is that with ever North, it's an it's an active treasury. We are going to be looking at yield strategies, uh to maximize x RP per share. Uh. And I think if you want that kind of exposure, ever North is the right kind of product for you.
But ETF, uh it's a it's a very limited kind of product, which is great for and you know, a different kind of investor. But I almost see them as you know, uh, you know, two different kinds of products out there. You know, some people want the minivan, some people want, you know, the the car. There's a market for passenger car. There's markets for both, right, and like this kind of specialization is good overall for the the crypto economy and the ecosystem. It's great for x RP as well.
Yeah, well said, you know, we have the buffet of options, right it, pick your pick, your your option that you want and whatever you're comfortable with. You know, you mentioned like you and I are kind of like o G. So we're okay being uh you know, go buying on the exchange, throwing in a hardware wallet. But not everybody is going to be open to doing that or or want to do that, so that's aren't a great option the ETF. So it just depends on your preference.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. It's like, you know, this is something that I can just you know, you could go tell your mom, Tony is like just go to you know, Robinhood or each rade and and you can participate now in the crypto uh, you know economy. Uh. And again to your point five years ago, six years ago, imagine
telling someone that you've got to go get a wallet. Wait, you got to be very secure about the wallet and oh wait, if you want to earn yield on that uh, now you've got to you know, move it to this chain. And it's just too complicated. Let's think it easier for everyone, uh, you know, around the world to participate, uh in this new financial revolution. That's what you know, products like ever North.
Yeah, great point. You know you mentioned everyone everyone around the world. This is going to be a dumb question on my part and it applies to dats. But I
¶ Market access and Tokenization
know that only certain markets can access like the New York Stock is Change or the NASDAK So would the same rules apply here that whichever markets around the world can access the NASDAQ will get access to this stock.
Yeah, at launch, at close, once the transaction is approved, then you'd be able to access ever North through FRP and the ticker symbol on the Nasdaq available you know, in your brokerage accounts. And then you know, the next plan after that would be looking at how we tackle international markets. And there are no more different strategies there. But again, Japan and Korea are interesting markets for ever North and we'll you know, start charting out plans to attack those markets as well.
This may be too early to answer this question, but we see ashes these for tokenizing stocks happening right with big institutions. So would that be an option that you're going to explore. And again, maybe too early, but that could be on the table.
Yeah. Our goal here is to make this accessible and in as stock. Buying XRPN as a stock is one step towards making it more accessible. Uh, and we're not gonna, you know, stop at exploring new opportunities. Uh, you know, even outside of evern't know. I'm super excited about tokenized equities. I think it's going to give you know, folks around the world a chance to participate in the global financial economy in ways that they couldn't do before, especially in
emerging markets. And just like folks can hold you as dollars via stable coins around the world, folks are going to be able to do that with all sorts of other kinds of real world assets, equities, real estate, you know, debt. They're going to be able to do that via this
tokenization frontier. And again I'm excited that that technology, uh, tokenization and payments is what the XRP ledger has did for and again that ecosystem can thrive on the XRP ledger because of all the supporting technologies, like I mentioned the stable coins as well, that are you know, growing rapidly, that will help serve as a catalyst for that kind of growth. In terms of this new world economy around tokenization.
She I'm still like trying to grasp what the future looks like with markets because you know, on the topic of tokenization, where you have a lot of assets on the blockchain, whether it be real estate, precious metal, stocks of course, and different types of equities, and then you have like twenty four to seven trading and like, are we going to drive ourselves nuts or are we going to have AI agents, you know, monitoring our portfolios and
maybe doing some trading while we're sleeping, right, And but more liquidity, more options because you're dealing with people across the globe who couldn't have participated with in the past because you have to go through you know, those stakeholders, the big bangs and so forth, and the big trading firms. But now somebody in Hong Kong I can deal directly with them via DeFi and we don't even need to know each other.
Yeah, so yeah, so listen that there's a lot that needs to happen for twenty four by seven you know, trading, and you hit on one big portion of it. It was liquidity. You know, you need now you need liquidity support and monitoring, you know, twenty four to seven. And hey, certainly AI is an interesting technology that could potentially help there. But remember you know when you first got access to the Internet.
I remember that first time of reading the newspaper, in my case, the Detroit News sports section, and it was only updated one time per day. And then eventually because the Internet is real time, they had to compete and they had to like update content all day long. And the same thing is going to happen in my opinion, with liquidity and trading online. Like you can buy bitcoin and XRP twenty four by seven for sure, but again
that's not available to equities today in most markets. So I have a feeling and it's my prediction, in my belief that DeFi is going to push the rest of these markets to twenty four by seven trading. You know, there will be a scramble, but twenty four x seven liquidity around all these different products that doesn't exist today and it's going to need to be automated in some you know fashion to scale. It's just can't survive doing it the old way with you know, rigid market closes.
That's not the way crypto works. It's not the way the world works, which is sort of like the beauty of this whole you know technology.
Yeah, for sure, it's a brave new world. And we see now even the stock markets are trying to copy the I wouldn't say necessarily copy, but they have to keep up, and they're trying to expand their opening and closing times to you know, be twenty four to seven where possible. So it's just interesting how things are changing. There's something I think you may have touched on, but I want to make sure I confirm are you going
¶ will RLUSD be used
to be using our l U s D stable coin in any way and the treasury you know maybe in paying out certain things or running through the ecosystem and things like that.
Like we we definitely want to you know, partner with you know, leading stable coins around the world. Just happens that the r l U s D, the Ripple stable coin is growing really quickly. Hey, every every blockchain, including the x RP ledger needs on and off er ms, and we're you know, we're excited about the growth there because you know, you need to get onto the DeFi
ecosystem to get off the def ecosystem. But at the same time, we're an XRP treasury, and so we want to make sure that we are you optimizing for XRP, but getting onto those decentralized protocols. I have a feeling that Ripple r l U s D, the stable coin is going to play a big part of that.
That's awesome. She I think one thing I want to get your thoughts on, because when you were working at Ripple, of course you guys were speaking to a lot of institutions, a lot of banks and so forth. And I mean, just for example, this week it was announced at City Bank is partnering with coinbase to offer crypto services JP Morgan PNC Bank. What is it like seeing all of these firms who at one point somewhere against crypto, but now they're embracing it and everybody's coming into the same eCos.
That's uh, you know, I love seeing it. I mean, I know a lot of folks are you know, you know anti bank, you know, from from very early on. When I joined Crypto, I really did feel this was about bringing the entire ecosystem and uh, listen to the capital in the in the in the world is still managed by large banks, and you need them to be part of this ecosystem, just like the Internet. Like the Internet to today is not just about individual bloggers. You
have big firms like Disney pushing content over the internet. Uh, and so combined like, yes, you had a lot of new players, but yes you have the traditional players as well that really made the Internet what it is today. Now you can get TV, sports, everything over the Internet and that's why it scaled, and you need that same thing to happen with crypto as well. Can just be about speculators and and uh and and and and the
retail audience. You need the retail audience, and you need institutions and again listen, like I think a big reason why they didn't participate early on was because they had a good They didn't have to innovate to be twenty four by seven. Why nothing pushed them And what pushing
it was pushing them now is this technology. Certainly regulation improving also was a catalyst, but again the consumer sort of dictates a lot of these banking you know, industry players and their behavior, and the consumer has spoken up that they want this technology. They want faster payments enabled by stable coins, and they will in a few years, in my belief, want more access to the DeFi ecosystem as well.
Yeah, well said, it's amazing. The world of opportunities is that this technology is opening up, and it's just so exciting. And like I said earlier, I can't wait for the Clarity Act to pass and to see the innovation boom that follows. You know, you mentioned like the Internet and the government got a right in the nineties and what followed was amazing, Google, Amazon and much more in the world. How we're communicating right now, right, it's incredible. She's great stuff.
Looking forward to the launch on the Nastaca as far as publicly traded and so forth, and looking forward to celebrating with you guys. But thank you so much for joining me.
Thank you, Tony, and again you're so wonderful to speak with, and you know, I love everything that you're doing, but I also just love all your support over the years. You're definitely one of the good guys.
Appreciate it, man.
Thank you