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Hey everyone, welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host Tony Edward and my guest today is Bobby Zagoda, who is the CEO of Bitstamp USA and global Chief Commercial Officer. Bobby. Great to have you on.
Great to be here, Tony.
Bobby, as we were talking about before the recording, I'm an og user bitstamp. I remember back in I think it was twenty seventeen, transferring funds over to bitstamp in the Europe in Europe, buying some bitcoin and then using some of that bitcoin to buy all coins. So I have a lot of background with bitstamp, so I'm really excited to chat with you and learn about what you guys are up to these days. But let's start with
your background. Tell us about yourself, where you're from, and your professional background.
Well, first of all, great to hear that you're a customer. Love to hear that. Yeah, I've been with bits stamp three and a half years. Just about I joined as a CEO for the US, as you mentioned, and shortly thereafter it took on this global Chief Commercial Officer role. Prior to this, I was at Kraken, so another crypto exchange.
I was a chief commercial officer there for three years, and prior to that, I was at I was on the traditional financial services side at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange CME Group, and I was a member of the leadership
team there. I ran a couple of different divisions and as a matter of fact, it was there that I got involved in crypto interestingly, because I had responsibility for our venture capital CEMI Ventures, and that team started pitching me on crypto and blockchain investments in late twenty thirteen, and we started investing in twenty fourteen in some notable early stage crypto companies, including Ripple for instance, and I got quite involved as a board observer at Ripple for
a couple of years, and it really opened up my mind to the possibilities of this technology, not only for the world and for society, but for a company like CME Group. And we ended up working really hard to get that board of directors comfortable with the idea of a bitcoin futures product, which which we ultimately did, although
it was it was difficult. You know, we were seeking approval for this in twenty sixteen, which was still quite early for let's call it mainstream traditional financial services companies to be thinking about such a thing, but we were successful in getting and getting the board to approve it. We launched it in twenty seventeen. Of course, many people thought we were crazy at the time, but it turned out to be a really, really strong product for them.
That's amazing that you were part of launching bitcoin futures at the CME, and today's day, the CME is one of the kind of goal posts with the futures markets to having futures markets for different assets in the crypto space. I think even it's you know, when it comes to like getting spot ETF approves approved, excuse me, they kind of look to the CME to ensure the futures market is established there.
Yeah, it obviously plays a critical role in the evolution of asset classes and assets, not just the CME, but the futures marketplace in general. It becomes the price discovery venue or venues for assets as they mature, and we're seeing that in the crypto marketplace as well. Today the derivative side of the crypto marketplace is growing so fast and is so large today it is becoming the price discovery mechanism for for lots of instruments, including ETFs of course or eventually ETFs. Of course.
With your history right going back to like twenty fifteen and so forth and getting involved in crypto, what's it like looking back ten years later, we're in twenty twenty five, of course, and seeing the growth with trad fi here, with spottytf stable cooin market is booming. You have a pro crypto government and all these things in place.
It's just it's just unbelievable. And you know, particularly when the ETF approvals happened last year. You know, even though there was a lot of regulatory and still is you know, you know, important regulatory gaps that need to be filled and another challenges. But when the ETF approvals came through, I you know, I took a moment to talk to some of my colleagues and some of my former colleagues and just say, hey, can we just enjoy this for
a moment. Can we just set back This was unthinkable you know a few years ago, and and uh and so really quite amazing that that that we are seeing the progress and the mainstream acceptance both on the part of institutions and and retail investors that were that we're seeing now. And it also brings brings home for me the level of vision that you know, the godfathers have, such as the founders of bit stamped. You know they bit stamp was founded in twenty eleven, right, it's the
longest running crypto exchange. You know, the foresight that those brilliant young men have at that time, and not just that you know, Brian Armstrong, Jesse Powell. You know, there's these guys saw something, believed in it, you know, and and really invested, you know, invested their heart and soul in it. And so so fancy your question. From my standpoint, I've been in the markets now for six or seven years full time. It's amazing to see where we are.
But it also reminds me what level of vision started back in back with the white paper.
Oh absolutely, And do you feel like we've crossed the chasm, hit the tipping point where there's no going back, like the genies at the bottle of this thing is now
we're hitting the ground running. You got trad Fi, you got the government on board, there's change in the regime of the SEC, and there's a crypto task force being formed of the SEC now that innovators and entrepreneurs can really put their heads down, start working, not worry about you know, getting a walls notice and things like that, and we might see a big boom this year in the industry.
Yeah, I do. I think it's pats the tipping point, to use your language, there's no going back. The validity and frankly, the brilliance of the technology, the underpinning technology and all of the potential applications around it not just in financial services, but as has been well discussed in you know, identity management and supply chain management, and you know,
the list goes on and on. There's there's no question that the United States and the world are going to you know, make the most of this opportunity in lots of different ways and lots of different forms. And it might not be the way that it was originally envisioned by by some of the godfathers I was just mentioning, but no question it will be. Uh. It will create great opportunities for individuals, for investors and for you know, people who are running businesses and moving money and all
those good things. And I think in particular in the US, as you mentioned, right, the US has been you know, there's been a bit of a governor on our progress by virtue of the lack of regulatory clarity and the fact that the past administration you know, seem to be you know, actively or behind the scenes trying to slow trying to slow the process. You know. My feeling is they weren't sure what their position was, but they wanted to slow it down in the meantime, and they didn't
do that in a very transparent way. The new administration, you know, clearly is wanting to make you know, the US the capital for crypto and and make sure that we're not missing a beat when it comes to innovation in general and with respect to crypto, and I think
that's very, very positive. So even today where we're enjoying some some really renewed interests and adoption, there's still a lot of people who have been on the sidelines, both individuals and institutions, waiting for a moment where they could get involved without feeling like a regulator might have a gun to their head and and them not really know about it.
Yeah. Absolutely, And it's amazing the things that are on the table even with the government right a stable coin legislation, market structure legislation, and then you have the bitcoin reserve bill, states individually are introducing bitcoin reserve bills. And then you also have the ELON talking about putting government spending on the blockchain, which I think, regardless of what where you stand politically, you should know where your tax dollars are
being how they're being used, and how it's been spent. Right, So it'll be amazing to see these things come to fruition this year.
Yeah, No, I mean, it's it is again quite amazing a strategic bitcoin reserve. I mean, just you know that that level of recognition and that level of relying on this asset, you know, is uh is just incredibly important and also you know, makes a lot of sense. It just makes a lot of sense, you know. I'm certainly I've never worked in the Treasury. I'm not you know, take everything I say with a great assault as it recome as as it relates to treasury and Treasury policy.
But you know, I think diversification is a good idea in general when you're trying to manage a portfolio or manage a bunch of money. So so I think there's a lot of a lot of merit to the idea.
M Yeah, I know there's talks of, yes, the bigcoin reserve, but also a digital stockpile. I don't know that will actually come to fruition, but it were, it would include other digital assets as well. So we'll see what Trump and the administration decide to do.
I inc I'm sorry, I mean interrupt Tony, but instantly, I don't think that's the most important thing, you know, I think it's great that the administration is focused on that and I think there's benefits to be had, but I do think the regulatory issue has got to be solved, and it's got to be solved quickly. And I believe, I don't know, but I believe that's going to require congressional action. You know. My take on the situation in the US is a we are behind so in Europe
and bitstamp is a very global business. So our business in Europe in many respects is thriving because of a different level of regulatory clarity with the MICA framework and other things. So it hasn't enabled institutions and banks in particular to get involved in a way that is not currently possible in the US, just as one example. So
I believe that Congress needs to act. They need there needs to be a framework that, for instance, you know, defines the jurisdictions here between CFTC and SEC and how that all fits together with crypto because it doesn't fit neatly into you know, traditional structures there. And then those regulators need to create, you know, create rules and do it transparently, not not by enforcement where we're all trying
to guess what, you know, what the rules are. So that that I hope UH, the administration prioritizes and and and becomes an initial focus.
Yeah. Absolutely, one hundred percent. That is the thing a lot of people are waiting for in the market's waiting for, uh, because there's still some wild West activities happening in the crypto space. We need the regulations and UH that protects consumers, but also the fosters innovation. Let's talk about bitstamp for those who may not know, tell us about big Stamp and the different services you guys offer.
Sure, sure, thanks, so, as I mentioned, bistamps the longest running crypto exchange. Are quite proud of our track record in that regard. We do serve to starting at the highest level. We do serve retail investors. We've got you know, five million or so retail customers. We also serve in institutions, and we have a growing and really strong, uh you know, cohort of institutional clients. And we believe that that diversity makes our markets really healthy and really and really reliable.
And bit stamp, you know, our claim to fame is generally that we believe we have the the most extensive regulatory licensing footprint in the business, and that we have always prioritized regulatory compliance and you know, professional governance as a company, even at the expense of growth, probably in
the early years. And that was you know, going back to our founders and I wasn't there at bitstamp at the time, but my my belief and based on my conversation is with them, you know, they anticipated this moment. You know, they anticipated a time when mainstream adoption will happen and specifically institutions will get involved, you know, in more of a complete way. And so they back in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, started making decisions to prepare bitstamp
to be an obvious choice, particularly for institutions. So what did they do. You know, they they firstly separated custody from the exchange, so we out we had we had that technology, we outsourced it to a licensed custodian bid Go. Why because the institutions generally get worried about that counterparty risk when when those two things are together. The next
thing they did was they got a license. So we were the first to ever get a license, which was which was in Luxembourg, and that's started us down the path. We have sixty plus licenses around the world today and the third thing they did was, which I thought must have been quite radical at the time, is you know, they made the decision in twenty sixteen to start getting global financial audits from a big four accounting firm. And you know, I'm pretty sure in twenty sixteen there weren't
many crypto companies thinking about global financial audits. And because of that, you know, we're the only ones who can say we have eight years of cleaning audit opinions from a Big four accounting firm, and that has defined bitstamped to a pretty great degree. We just do things right. You know, we don't mess around. We want to make the confidence that our customers have in us kind of beyond approach.
That's great. I love that, you know, going back to twenty sixteen, you guys are doing these audits and if only the industry had that standard or you know, more exchange, we wouldn't have FTX and all this madness that took place. And then I love that you guys outsource your custody to like a trust custodian like bitgo. That's really great. So they'll com mingling and once again FTX is the example.
Yeah, Yeah, I couldn't agree more obviously, And the only other thing I would add about Bitstamp is, as I started to mention, where we're truly global, so you know, our heritages in Europe. We were founded in Europe. Europe is still sixty five percent of our total business, but we have a strong and growing business in the US and in the Americas and also in Asia.
Now, there was news last year I believe that robin Hood had acquired bitstamp. Tell us about that acquisition and how you'll be working together.
Yeah, we're really excited about this, and I can't comment much about it because it's a transaction in progress. But what I can say is what we said publicly, we when we announce the acquisition that we it will take some time to get through regulatory approvals. I mentioned, we've got a lot of licenses. That's all progressing very very well.
We said when we when we announced that we expect to be done with that that process, the regulatory approvals and realize the change of control in June of twenty twenty five. And we we are on track for that timeline. Still, it's of course difficult to predict with precision because regulators, you know, kind of operate on their own timelines, but everything is progressing very very well. We're quite excited about it.
That the combination is very complementary. Right, So you know, they're they're one retail focused today and as I mentioned, we have a really strong growing institutional business. They're primarily us UH in terms of their current customer base, and and we're we're more skewed towards Europe. So these things will I think create a really powerful combination.
Oh for sure. And in Bitstamp, As far as services you offer, I'm I'm assuming you include the top crypto assets. Uh do you offer staking? I'm assuming spot trading, futures trading and things like that.
Yeah, great question. So we were primarily a spot exchange today, although we do have a derivatives offering coming soon which I can which I can mention although we haven't we haven't promoted yet, and we we do have a global set of Spot offerings that support our Spot exchange. What what we believe about the derivative side of the market place is, as I mentioned earlier, you know, it dwarfs the spot side of the crypto marketplace in terms of overall volume and market cap, if you will, and it's
growing faster for all the right reasons. It's because these as an asset class, crypto is maturing. However, the vast majority of that volume is on venues that I would characterize as offshore, you know, offshore or in lightly regulated jurisdictions, And that's of great concern to me as somebody who's been in the industry for a while and believes so deeply in what we're doing. I like, where have I heard of this before where a venue becomes large and
is in a lightly regulated jurisdiction. Oh, I remember is FTX. So so you know, I think I think the industry really needs to step back and think, so we don't repeat, you know, repeat history here. So so ninety five percent of a giant, you know, derivatives market is too much to be in those venues that might have been okay five years ago, but in twenty twenty five and going forward,
it just can't be so bitstamp. You know, Given everything I said about our regulatory posture, we think we can bring a solution to that, and I think others can and need to as well, so that traders and investors have alternatives that are liquid that you know, are not in some jurisdiction that might not be as rigorous or as trustworthy as others.
Yeah, great point, because I still see like these some like new derivatives platform or exchanges pop up and they're like no KYC and all these things, and I'm like, that's probably not gonna last very long with the regulations coming into place. Like to your point, like five six years ago, you know, it was a young market. Now I don't think that's gonna fly. So, yeah, we want to have regulated institutions and things buttoned up, guardrails in place and much more.
Yeah, for sure.
Now, I would love to get your thoughts on your future outlook for crypto exchanges and platforms like bitstamp. And in the context of look, there's ETFs being launched, there's platforms like robin Hood, there's PayPal and so forth. How how would bitstamp separate itself from these companies? You know, what are some of the things you guys plan to offer and maybe eventually tokenize assets, Right, We're going to tokenize stocks and commodities, and maybe bitstamp will offer stuff like that.
Yeah, absolutely, So you know, there's a couple of ways to think about about what's happening here from a from a purely exchange standpoint, you know, and this is a gross oversimplification, but you know, what are we what are we good at? And what are exchanges good at? They're good at matching buyers and sellers right and doing it transparently and and doing it you know, incredibly efficiently. And and so it doesn't have to be a single commodity or type of commodity or asset that that is in
play for for an exchange. So what does that mean? That means exchanges, you know, should think about diversifying into for instance, you mentioned tokenized securities or tokenized assets of other of other types that would be a natural growth that. That is something we are focused on where we have a strategy there and a set of initiatives that you know, we'll be able to communicate more about in second half
of this year. But something we're very very excited about, as everybody is the possibilities associated with tokenization in general are just immense. You can do so many things, and there's so many types of assets that lots of you know, retail investors or buyers and sellers don't have access to today. But with a tokenization you know process, then that could really democratize a lot of market a lot of markets, which I think is quite exciting. So yeah, tokenization is
really important. You also mentioned a minute ago staking and some of the yield bearing products and services those I think are really important for exchanges and also something that we offer in select geographies. In Europe, for instance, we have a lending offering where our customers can can choose to lend their crypto for yield, and we do that via a partner. But uh, the point the point of that is we we do it quite transparently and differently
than it had been done in the past. We do it in the big stamp way, if you will, and then the other way to think about the future. I think you mentioned robin Hood and cash app and some of these guys. You know, there's there's a lot of banks out here, also banks globally and in the US that have you know, tremendous amount of loyal customers that
really trust them. But I think they're finding themselves in a situation where they're depositors, their customers have to leave their ecosystem to buy bitcoin, you know, or to use a stable coin to transact somewhere, and they're getting increasingly concerned about that, and I would too if I were them, right, So, so I think there needs to be a or there will be a convergence, you know of either led by banks or led by fintech companies, great fintech or payments
companies where they bring a lot of these banking and financial services capabilities together in one app, you know. And and from an exchange perspective, we would love to support that. It doesn't have to be us at the at the front end. We can be the liquidity liquidity at the back end. But I do think that phenomenon is happening, and I do think exchanges diversifying into different asset classes is happening.
Yeah, for sure. And that's a great point of mentioning that you could power to back end. Right, So it's a bank and they don't want to build all these things out. They just go to you guys, plug you in and they can offer the customer's script. But you're you're you know, powering to back end.
Yeah, exactly, in fact, and that all we haven't We have that ofurn called we call it big Stamp as a service. And in Europe I alluded to this earlier
in Europe. We have a lot of a growing business here, particularly in the banking sector, because they're not going to build it at this point, right, so they're going to need to rely on somebody who has the full regulatory stack like like we do, and the full technology stack, and and just plug it in so that their customers don't have to leave in order to buy a few dollars a big coin.
Yeah, great point. What's on your roadmap for this year?
Oh well, we're very excited about addressing this derivative situation I mentioned. And again, like I said, we haven't announced this yet, but suffice it to say that, you know, outside of the US, a little bit different equation in the US, but outside of the US, you know, and specifically in Europe, you know, we have the licenses, specifically a miffed license that would enable us to offer derivatives and particularly perpetual swaps in our fully regulated, fully regulated fashion,
in a trustworthy jurisdiction. And beyond that securities or token is securities or what have you. So, so in the bitstamp way, we've we've gotten our licensing foundation in place so that now we can build offerings that you know, provide a really safe and sound regulated alternative to what's in the market today. So that's a primary focus for us. In addition to that, as I mentioned, we're in the US looking to get back into the art and science
and ball game of growth. So for the last couple of years, when the regulatory environment has been so uncertain, like many we kind of we continue to grow our business, but you know, maybe in a more quiet way then would be typical, and we also true true form for a bitstand we're also quite conservative in terms of our
token listings and our offerings. So for instance, when the SEC brought actions against some of our competitors and they named certain tokens, you know, we automatically trade halted those tokens, even if we could not understand why the SEC picked them, even if we had you know, legal opinions saying that it was okay, we just took a very conservative posture. Same thing with Staking in the US, the reactions brought about Staking offerings. We think our Staking offering is different,
but we paused it. So now in twenty twenty five, we want to get back into the business, albeit in a disciplined and thorough way, to revisit those tokens and also new tokens that have come out in the meantime, and also staking products.
That's great, and I understand. I actually worked at a small crypto exchange in the United States which had to close its door because it didn't want to deal with things like like as you mentioned, right, Wells notices and get into massive lawsuits. So it feels like the dark cloud has been lifted companies to help and get back to focusing on growth, building great products.
And much more. Exactly exactly, yeah, the way everyone said this a million times, but you know, the way the SEC was operating it really made it quite uncomfortable. Even for a company like bitstand like, we just want to do it right. Just tell us what's right, we'll do it, you know, I mean, no questions asked. We know how to deliver compliant processes, but it was never quite clear what was right, and the only way that the SEC seem to want to address the issue was via enforcement.
And you know, if they bring an action, if they bringe Wells notice and or a law suit, you know, it's crippling for a business. It's crippling. You know, it costs millions upon millions and millions of dollars just to defend yourself even if you're one hundred percent correct and above board. So it's you know that to your point, it's good that we seem to be it's not done yet, we seem to be moving beyond it.
Yeah. Absolutely, I love like your thoughts on the Bitcoin ETF and etheromytfs. Obviously, Bitcoin ETF a massive success, the fastest growing ETFs in the history of the ETF market. I blew out records out of the water. What are your thoughts, And then there's talks of getting x RP and Solana ETFs other old coins this year.
Well, it's just, uh, the phenomenon of the Bitcoin ETF just can't be underestimated in terms of legitimizing the entire idea for lots and lots of people and institutions. So so so that's great and from a from a bitstand perspective, you know, to us, that's a that is growing the pi, you know, literally growing the pie. It's creating an avenue for individuals and institutions that are comfortable with it. They know how to deal with ETFs, they know what an
ETF means. They have those access points, you know, well paved and and therefore they join a marketplace that they otherwise you know, wouldn't it wouldn't take the time to find the access points. So so similarly with Solana and XRP, which I think are both you know, going to come, I don't know on what timeline, but it's just gonna do the same thing. It's going to open up new possibilities.
You know, both of those assets have a story, you know, they have they have an ecosystem, there's an awful lot happening, and you know, participating in that side of the crypto marketplace is a little bit different than Bitcoin because of what's what's being built within those ecosystems, and so so I'm excited that more classes of investors are going to get smarter and get more grounded in what is you know, cutting edge across the across the crypto the cryptosphere if you will, m hm.
And also your thoughts on the stable coin market, which has been booming. You have a lot of new folks issuing stable coins, even like Ripple they just launched a stablecoin. PayPal has a version. I know the folks at robin Hood is working on a conglomerate stable coin. I remember speaking to I think it's Johann kerbat at Robin Hood. Uh yeah, just so it seems a stable coin market
is heating up. There's many layers today because uh, if the United States does it very well or right, Uh, it can help maintain the world reserve currency status of the US dollar and uh and a political aspect all of that.
Of course, yeah, of course, and you are you are correct or we're we're seeing the same thing. Just there's there's a bit of a proliferation of new stable coin projects, and you know, they all have slightly different con you know, context or or or strategy behind them, but they all carry a lot of possibilities associated with them. So what I mean specifically is, for instance, some of them are
are more geared towards sharing rewards with infrastructure providers. So bitco, for instance, bitco is launching a stateable coin, and part of their concept, as I understand it, is you know the yield, so you know, the underlying assets supporting these
stable coins generating an incredible amount of yield. If you look at at Circle and if you could look at toether, you would see just a lot of zeros, like just enormous businesses built around this yield, but they don't share a lot of that yield some of these new projects. That's their whole concept is like, actually, we want to reward the infrastructure that is, you know, providing access to use of the stable coin. And then at the same time, like the killer app side of stable coins just keeps
getting more and more pronounced. You know, the ability to just move dollars or euros, you know, seamlessly and without cost, you know, across a network or across an ecosystem is is never going to go out of style. You know, there's still there's still you know, Western Union and other other places that charge an incredible amount to move money and it takes a couple of days. You know. It's it's that's ripe for ripe for innovation, let's.
Say, yeah for sure. Uh And and to your point, like stable coin seem to be the killer use case of blockchain. Obviously there's going to be more, you know, with tokenization and stuff like that, but stable coin being the first, and it's incredible, I feel like we can hit if we haven't, we're close to it as yet, maybe a trillion doullar market cap for stable coins probably by the end of the year. Next year, we'll see, but things are heating up.
I think it's I think it's possible. And I think what's interesting is how many different There's two things are interesting to me. One is how many different stable cooin projects will get traction. I don't think it's going to be just one, but I don't think it's going to be one hundred either. And then also currencies, so you know, the U s D stablecore market is by far the
the one that has gotten traction. But I'm curious to see if if Euro stable coins, of which there are some really quality projects out there, will will get traction, or are Brazilian reale or or some other important FIAT currencies. And you mentioned the political side of this, which is interesting too. You know, I I am a firm believer in what you said, which is, you know, the US dollar enjoys a rarefied space in the global financial ecosystem.
And uh and and if and if we the US, you know, for instance, stifle crypto or do not support U s D stable coins, then it will be I think negatively affected. Over time, it will erode. So healthy USD stable coins will I think support you know, the US dollar as a global currency and a global reserve currency, and so I'm glad to see the administration's posture on this, for instance, versus a you know, a central bank stable coin, which I think would would disrupt that possibility.
Yeah, to your point, it seems like the CBDC movement has kind of died down and the governments are leaning more towards private sector stable coins. But we'll see. You know, maybe some other countries may still move forward with CBDCs, but at least here in the United States, that is, it seems like it's dead on arrival.
Yeah, I believe so. I hope so, because I just I think both in terms of, you know, your economics, it's better, but I also think the privacy aspect is really really important too. But in China it's all CBDC, you know, that's that's the marketplace there.
So so yall, Yeah, for sure. Now I hope you do to mind be asking you about this, But you know, meme coins have been going crazy. It's it's madness, right, It's a well while West look there, I want to make sure I preface this question. There are certain meme coins like doge Coin, which I've been around for a long time, you're not going to get rugged pulled by doge coins. You know, it's not. It wasn't created last week or last night on pump fun, right, But there's
a lot being created. The president launches own and a lot of people are getting hurt and rugged. You know, how does bitstamp look at these things? And and even if there are some quality meme coins like your doge coins that you're playing to listen, how do you guys approach it.
Yeah, it's a great question, and it's you know, it's something that is impossible to ignore. To your point, it's you know, there's just a lot, there's a lot of projects that are getting real traction and so and to your point, the longest, the longest we're running ones that you like Doje and Pepe. You know, these are generally I think more trusted and they're too big now to be like some pumping them you know scheme, which which is great, I think from a bitstand perspective. You know,
for tokens in general, we're very choosy. You know, we we have a very rigorous process where we look at these projects, not just from a regulatory perspective, although that's very important, but also from a technology perspective, from a you know, a usability or a commercial perspective, a security you know, information security kind of perspective. We try to look out for our customers, so so when we list something, you know, it kind of has our seal of approval.
We're not the kind of exchange that just throws stuff up. See what happens now mean cooin. You know, it's more challenging to understand the purpose, right to be blunt. However, to your point, some of them have real communities behind it, like Doge. Like Doge has a very vocal, loyal, growing community around it. So in that regard as an exchange operator,
you know, we have to make it available. We've got to make it available to you know, to customers and they use it to move value around, and you know, perhaps there's a set of possibilities being built on it,
you know, over time. But we're we won't be the first to list any any new mean coin for all the reasons you alluded to, Like I think there is a real speculative side of this proliferation of meme coins, and we don't want to really be a party to that, even if there's money to be made Frankly, that's not why we're in crypto. That's not what we stand for. A bit stamp. I don't mind that those are out there, but that's not really kind of our you know, kind of our focus.
Yeah, absolutely, I think, yeah, there's there's some clean up that needs to happen here. I don't know how they get to regulated, but you know, I believe in the free market. Like, if you want to invest in it,
go ahead, just know the risk. But I guess the part of being able to rug people, right, the RUG polls are what hurts a lot of the meme coin market, and it kind of puts a bad reputation because of course the mainstream headlines, oh, this guy, you know, Hoavier Malay, president of Argentina, creates a mean coin of rug pulls people for eighty seven million. That doesn't reflect well in the market. So we have to figure out some sort of balance.
Yeah, it's not good. Yeah. And yeah, when it gets like wreckly integrated with politics, either in our country or other countries, I think it really also gets complicated because you know, buying the token can can be viewed I think as you know, trying to create influence, and that's obviously should be very separate.
Yeah, absolutely, Bobby. I got some wrap up questions here for you. First, if you could create your own metaverse, what would the theme be?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let me let me go. You know, this might sound corny, but one of the things that intrigues me about the metaverse or meta meta versus in general is like, you know, utopian ideas. So so I think it would be diversity, you know, I believe it or not. Like, uh, you know, if that was the thematic headline and all the people that grab potated towards that metaverse had that in mind, you know, I wonder if it would create new possibilities.
Oh sure, rapid fire questions. Favorite food.
Food mm hm god, you know pizza.
Your musician or band.
Oh that's a really really hard one for me. I I'm also a musician. I play in bands, so it's a really tough one. I'll tell you one of my favorites. I'll discussed the.
Nice favorite movie.
Man. I'm gonna sound like like a stereotype, but my godfather, it's classic. Favorite book, favorite book, here's your room, my reputation. My favorite book is actually, uh, this very very old book of poems by E. Cummings mm hmm.
And when you're not working a bit stamp, what are you doing for fun as a hobby?
So, as I mentioned I I I play guitar and I play in bands, write songs. That's that's uh, both for sanity reasons and and and to keep the other side of my brain working, so that takes takes a lot of time, something I truly love. I also do triathlons, which keeps me moving. Uh. And then yeah, my family. I've got a great family. I've been very fortunate and blessed in that regard. So those those things come to mind.
Nice. Uh. Follow up question the guitars, because I play guitar. You can't see it, but I have a less Paul, I have a friender Stratton to back there acoustic. What is your favorite guitar to play?
Well, my favorite guitar is A is a sixty eight Gibson Dove that I that I have in Chicago. It's an acoustic obviously. My electric is A is a telecaster. Uh. And uh yeah those are those are my babies.
I want to get one more baby, but my wife would probably kill me. Uh, gretch white Falcon. I want to want to get.
Oh, I also want to gretch.
I do, yeah, my wife. My wife's already complained by I'm piling up guitars here, you know.
Uh.
Bobby, great chatting with you. Love what bitstamp is doing. I would love to have you back on in the future as things unfold for bitstamp, especially with the integration with Robin Hood and much more. Well, thank you for joining me.
Oh, thank you, Tony. He's really really a blast and anytime