And it seems like there's a decent amount of executive orders on deck. Now the question is, well, this would be a day one executive order, a week one executive order, or sometime in the first hundred days. It seems like acre in initial reports, we'll probably get next week. And if I had to imagine what these executive order would be, I imagine SAT one twenty one is right on the top of the list. As well as kind of creating the actual crypto council.
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news and interviews. I'm your host, Tony Edward and my guest today is Ron Hammond, Director of Government relations at the Blockchain Association. Ron, great to see you.
Happy New Year, Happy new Year, Tony. Always great to be chatting. So got a lot of dive into so looking forward to it.
Yeah, Ron, I saw your post yesterday recapping what's going to happen this week or what you expect for crypto and boy, there's so much going on, Ron, how about we start about the new Digital Assets Subcommittee in the Senate.
This is huge, it's massive, and this is kind of the precursor to what we saw in the House two years ago where they formed their Digital asset subcommittees and that became kind of the basin where a lot of the legislation that became Fit twenty one stable coins formed. But we've never seen that in the Senate. And Tim Scott establishing the Senate Banking Committee on a Digital Aid
subcommittee is a major major milestone. And even better, it's a really good lineup it folks we have on that subcommittee, especially on the Republican side. The so we have Centered Lummits is chairing it right now, and then we have a lot of good other folks like Bill Haggerty for example, Tom Hillis, Bernie Morino and several others. So really looking forward to what's going to come out of that subcommittee.
The hearings are going to get happening, as well as the legislation that likely would be going through that committee hopefully pretty soon.
Yeah.
Absolutely, And some big champions of crypto in that subcommittee, Senator Lumbus, you mentioned Haggerty, and I saw even Tim Scott this morning release a statement about his priorities for one hundred and nineteenth Congress. They want to get some sort of framework around digital assets through. So are you anticipating this subcommittee will help get some sort of bill through the Sendate this year?
Correct?
And just for a little history lesson for those who may not be following this as much. You know, we've had a lot of issues with the Senate in the past, and now, mind you was usually under Democrat control. But even any bill that moved out of the House, for the most part, that was pro crypto, it ended up dying usually in the Senate, or there was enough pressure in political you know, I guess I see in gateways at the Senate that the House just decided not to
go forward at all. So having that barrier gone is huge, and I think a lot of the legislation that usually forms in the House, we're going to see some of that now forming in the sentence it takes in her lumbs. For example, she's really advocating heavily for the Bitcoin Stugut Reserve. That's her passion project, and it is very likely since she's the subcommittee chair, we're going to have hearings on this.
And you know, for a long time a lot of people on Twitter have been following a lot of our pro crypto champions and they've been saying some great things. But the reality now is that these are folks who are now in charge of these subcommittee souse the tweaks matter a lot.
What they view matters a lot.
It's going to dictate what hearings happen, as well as what bills move forward and what bills don't move forward. And so we have a lot of good allies and allies and power positions, and that really does pave a way for potentially a really positive pro crypto Congress. But still there will be political hurdles in the way, so we'll help the deal with that as time comes on.
Speaking of hurdles, yesterday I saw Elizabeth Warren send some topics or questions for the Scott was sent confirmation hearing seems like she's trying to ramp up her anti crypto sentiment and talking points again exactly.
I mean, it was probably the worst blunder, I would say of the campaign cycle, at least in our very niche area, was making the anti crypto army and really leading into it, and that just backfired tremendously, where even when Van Jones was on CNN the other day saying the war on crypto is one of the reason why the Democrats lost, which is crazy to hear about that,
and again years ago not thought that'd be possible. But the facts speaking themselves and the votes speak themselves too, And so the question kind of was, where's Listen Warring to go next. She's just gonna let this go off to the side and focus on other issues that she has more priority on, or is she really gonna le
double down And that's kind of what we've see. And she's doubling down on crypto, on the idea that's only used for money laundering, and I think that's going to present a couple challenges and hurdles and the Senate, you know, mind you again, the Senate for example, there's only a three vote majority I believe in the Republicans have right now, but for a lot of bills, they're gonna need sixty members of Congress in the Senate to vote for it,
and so you're going to have to work with Democrats here. And when Elizabeth Warren is leading the set of band committee, she will have a lot more power in terms of whipping Democrats to be anti crypto or voting against certain pieces of legislation. So she's definitely going to be a hurdle. And that was definitely an opening salvo in terms of how she's going to view the Tcharnity secretary nomination and most likely pretty soon the sec nomination that comes her
Senate banking that's gonna be her committee as well. So get ready for that because I think e lizebth Warren is doubling down. And you know, the good thing is that we have the facts on our side, and we have a lot of momentum, and I think she is going to be the naysayer, but for the most part she's in minority. So the good thing is that we can move forward with the pro crypto members and the majority.
Yeah, absolutely, a good, great point, she's in the minority. And and I remember Chuck Schumer part of the Senate. Of course, at the end of twin twenty four, he was, you know, on the side of getting legislation through. So I'm hoping he can raise his voice and get some more Democrats to back him in the Senate exactly.
I mean, you take the SAB one twenty one vote that happened a couple months ago. Chuck Schumer and several other Democrats in the Senate, they bucked Liz of Warren and they voted to repeal SAB one twenty one. It was actually Joe Buying new vetoed. It's still but that bill itself was the most by Parson Bill Joe Bying ever vetoed in his administration, which is crazy to think about, but that out of all the bills out there, that was the one that had the most by parts in support.
So internally, we're feeling pretty good in terms of, you know, we educate our allies, We've reached out to, you know, maybe different constituencies that we want to care about Crypto U and it's worked in the past, and now we have a much better field and chessboard in terms of getting legislation through blocking big bad rules or bad legislation, uh, and.
Then getting things done. This is the crunch time here.
Next year and a half two years are going to be really really busy here in DC, and we want to get as much accomplished can before you know, whatever happens the election next go around.
Now, speaking of SAB one to one, there are talks about Donald Trump, who's the inaugurations next week, that we may see day one some sort of crypto executive order, possibly the repeal ASAB one to one. Are these just rumors or are there any valid validity to them?
So?
I've been talking with the executive director for the Hubble Crypto Council BOHINES pretty extensively through the past couple of weeks as well. My boss is David Sachs, and it seems like there's a decent amount of executive orders on deck.
Now.
The question is will this be a day one executive order, a week one executive order, or sometime in the first hundred days. It seems like, according to initial reports, we'll probably get next week. And if I had to imagine what these executive orders would be, I imagine SAV one twenty one is right on the top of the list, as well as creating the actual Crypto Council. It's unclear still to this extent if it's going to be ten companies,
twenty companies, executives one hundred. There's been reports in all three numbers, but overall they need to make an executive order to make this council. So I think we're sure we'll see a council formation in the details of that unfold next week. We could see us that one twenty
one repeal. We could see something on dbanking, or we can also see something about changing the ethics rules for White House employees or administration employees that they can actually hold crypto, because when I was a Hill staffer, I didn't hold crypto, but it was very detrimental to me personally just to learn the issue. And I think that's one of the education encounters we've had is just a lot of people refuse to touch it because they don't want to be you know, in law or a flaw
I guess of the epics law. So that tweak is going to need a lot as well. So there's a wide variety of issues that they could probably do the executive order on and then probably will be multiple, but for sure it seems like we're going to sell you next week.
When you say Crypto Council, and you know, we got a white house, cryptos are and all these people. Almost I feel I have to pinch myself because it doesn't feel real, like I couldn't have expictured this.
The crazy thing is in DC is I mean again, I've been in the policies hide when like no one cared about Crypto. Man, I was twenty seventeen, twenty twenty, twenty twenty one. Things are change a little bit, but now we are kind of the hottest player in town. You know, if we have a lot of allies in Congress, the administration is.
Head over heels of Crypto.
A lot of folks are donating to the inauguration as well as just more to the campaign itself. And there seems to be a whole revital here and Crypto is leading the charge. And so we'll see how long that you know, honeymoon period lasts. But at least right now there's a lot of optimism in DC and just generally with the community, and Crypto is making a huge impact in DC and the social scene. I mean, we have the Crypto ball coming up on front Snoop Dogg is
performing at where do we go over here? And you know, I'm glad everyone's going to be celebrating stuff. We had a lot of work ahead of us. But it's weird how crypto is now a major force in DC and DC is welcoming it right now, and that's been very different in the past couple of years.
Oh, absolutely complete one eighty. You mentioned that the inauguration ball is that hosted? Who's putting that together? And is Donald Trump gonna attend?
To my knowledge, no, we won't have any vans or Trump will not be there, but it's apparently Sacks's events. I think Bitcoin Magazine I believe is one of the organizers as well as well as Bitcoin Media.
There's a couple other inauguration events.
Every state society does their own events, so it's you know, the time for balls and pageants all during an auguration week and then come next week after Trump's in office, the real work begins and there's a lot So we have nominations, we have bills moving forward, we have committees being formed, so you know, this is the honeymoon period, but it's gonna be very briefly over and it's going to get really really busy soon.
Yeah.
Absolutely. I think after all this got to be heads down, get to work right, and we got some opposition to Elizabeth Warren, so we got definitely put the work in. Now. Gary Genser a current SEC chair, but he is going to be out by next week. He's been doing some exit interviews this week. Seems he's trying to save some face here. But it comes in the week that another judge calls the SEC arbitrary and capricious, second time under
Gary Gainster's tenure. This is kind of crazy. What are your thoughts on all this?
It's I think one of the main facts is that the arguments of the industry has been having for years has now gone mainstream. He's seeing CNBC anchors pushing him back against Kensler and trying to have his legacy of sorts. We've seen the judges in the third circuit to the coinbase case. It was two Democrats and one Republican judge, and they all voted that it was arbitrary and capricious on the SEC end, not to provide clear rules of
the road and to explain their reasoning. So I'm excited to see what the SEC reasoning is for not providing the rules of the road, because we've been asking this for years and Coinbasse has done a hell the job both on the legal front, but I was well in the lobbying policy front, educating members and really leading the
charge here. So we're really excited from all the work they're doing on the court side, and it's going to yield them, hopefully some really positive results with a new SEC at the helm and so against is a wounded animal. You know, we'll see if he does anything else in the last few days, but that was a major blow, and you know, I think his PR press tour for his waning days are not going as well as maybe he predicted.
Yeah.
Absolutely, Now Paul Atkins, of course is the next SEC chair. When do you think he might be confirmed? Is it towards the end of January?
I believe so.
So it seems like he's still work on some paperwork from internal sources, and we're having some of the nomination hearings this week. So Hegsek was yesterday that a lot of folks we're you know more spout around in the media for we have best on Thursday, we have plenty of other ones for other agencies and posts, but it doesn't.
Have any yet for the SEC.
So I do think either next week or the week after, we'll probably see hopefully Atkins in front of Set and Banking. But again, liztid Warren is going to be the Democrat lead on that committee, and so how heavy does she go into crypto much to focus on other issues are going to be really telling for the next two years where Warren's really gonna you know, dig in. But already we've seen crypto as one of our topics she's going to be doubling down on, so we're really excited to
see kind of how that goes forward. It seems like Atkins is viewed as a non controversial pick and so likely move forward and hopefully he can get into place very soon. So folks like Hesser, Purse and market Wada and several other than the staff side who've been waiting for years for this moment.
It can start working on rulemaking and uh, you know.
Getting the clarity of the industry needs and working with Congress to get a legislation pass absolutely.
Now, I know government moves slow. You know, we're talking about obviously a pro crypto president coming into office, pro crypto Congress, they Senate subcommittee. Are you viewing possibly some sort of bill getting through Lake qu two or possibly towards the end of the year.
So french Hill, who's leaning the Final Service Committee, he said he wants a stable coin bill done the first one hundred days.
Now does dun mean out of the committee?
Does that done mean out of the House or do the press since desk It's a little unclear. Obviously, a lot of these timelines can be very valuable considering that there's a lot that's facing Congress right now again all the nominations, they have to avoid a budget or a budget fight in March, and then they're going to be trying to push a tax bill, which cryptos will be trying to push a lot of pieces as well there.
So it's likely we'll probably see some movement in the committees from french Hill on both market structure and stable coins. But I imagine stable coin goes first, and we'll probably have hearings early on in March, so maybe in February as well, and now probably progress to a committee vote on stable coins. I'm hoping in Q one, but it could be early Q two as well. So this is Congress.
It doesn't move a little slow in the firste hundred days and in mid April, so you know, I think we we'll see some progress there, but when it comes to fit and market structure, that might take a little longer time because that bill was still not as flushed out and we haven't seen really the same work in the Senate in terms of moving that bill forward.
So I would look at.
Stable coins first, but also we look at a lot of hearings. You know, we've always seen Cen I want to say, she wants to do a hearing on dbanking and they'll probably a hot topic in the House as well, finding out what happened with Operation show point two point zero that folks are calling it and going over to the FDIC records that have been coming out through Coinbase's
efforts and several others on Twitter. So I think that's gonna take aou a lot of their time early on, but they're gonna they're dedicated to move something pretty quickly. So french Hill especially is someone who likes to get something across the finish line, and so I would look to him to be the first mover here. And I would see the House hopefully done in the first hundred days moving a stable coin bill, or you can at least out of the committee.
Final question, and this one's a hard one, but I'm curious of what you're hearing in the DC circles. Do you anticipate under Paul Atkins that the SEC may drop some of the non fraud cases and even speed up some of the settlements things that are you know, like, hey, let's settle with Ripple and done right, move forward. Do you think you might we might see stuff like that?
That's a hope. I mean, there were some talks potentially of the EO that I mentioned earlier. Maybe there's something on the current litigation that they can do there. It's still unclear, to be honest, but I'm pretty sure we will see actins at least have some push to resolve
as many of these cases quickly. Some of them have progressed pretty far in the courts, and that does create a couple of other problems and issues, and so at least a couple of lawyers I'm talking to, it's a little unclear exactly where the litigation is going to fall with actions at the HELM, but overall, it does seem again more in a positive direction. It does seem that there will be a settlement and then hopefully we'll get some clear regulation from the SEC as well as legislation.
But it's not a guarantee, so we'll have to wait and see what happens.
Yeah, I mean, just the end of regulation by enforcement itself is such a great thing. But if they can drop some of these non fraud cases where they're waiting on Congress, like okay, crypto staking, well we need Congress to probably tell us if staking itself is a security or not. Gary Ginser says stable coins is a security. Well, cases are on stable coin, maybe told drop that and let wait for the stable coin legislation and all these things, right,
which once again not fraud. When someone stole money and they did bad things, you know, do what you gotta do. But some of these cases are just bs, like the one against coinbase and crack and so forth, Robinhood, these are exactly yeah.
And like and a lot again to your point, there's a lot of efforts in Congress. It takes staking. For example, there's a high chance you can see something on staking in the big tax bill on reference that's done the pipeline Q one Q two. So with all these court actions, we could have you know, congressional action that undoes or you know, mitigates all of what's happening in the court. So when I say it's going to be really really busy these first two quarters, it's going to be a whirlwind.
And the question is just like how far on the pro crypto side or how far can we move positive elements forward while shedding a lot of the issues that have occurred the past four years. And that's what we're saying, folks, especially things like de banking, which are very important. Still, it's very good to get the bomb of it. So hey, like, let's focus a little bit on this, but let's get to the nitty already here, and let's get some legislation moved and let's sign the law because we don't have
too much time. And this is a very rare, you know, instance where you have a full Republican sweep, and timing is going to be the essence because there's a.
Lot of other priorities besides crypto.
But the good news is that crypto has made the priority list, So that is something that we didn't expect years ago.
But here we are.
Now absolutely ron as always my friend. Thank you so much for the information and the insights. Appreciate you and we'll probably have to have you back on maybe next secret of the week after because it is so much, but thank you so much.
Sounds good, I wish you're coming to the ball Tony and well I'm always at a check so looking forward to it.