¶ Intro / Opening
Hello, and welcome to the Thin End of the Wedge. The podcast where experts from around the world share new and interesting stories about life in the ancient Middle East. My name is Jon. Each episode, I talk to friends and colleagues, and get them to explain their work in a way we can all understand. Today's guest is not an expert in the ancient Middle East. You won't read research papers by him, nor will you find him at conferences. But there is a lot
for us to learn from him. He made an educational video for children about Mesopotamian history. It's a parody of a popular song of the time. That video has been viewed more than 4 million times on his official channel alone. I came across that song on YouTube like one night after a long, tough day. I didn't expect much to be honest. But when I heard it, it put a big smile on my face. Our guest and his work provide a wonderful example of how passion, humour, and music can build bridges.
They can help us deal with difficult situations. They can foster interest, open new worlds. It's fun, but with profound consequences, both for the individual and for society. The field of ancient Middle Eastern studies faces challenges. There's no escaping that. But let's not lose sight of the fact that there are many good people out there doing amazing work. And this podcast has benefited from countless acts of kindness, for which I'm
profoundly grateful. Today's guest, for example, was kind enough to let me use his most popular material for a promotional video, when I had nothing more to show him than an idea. Let's end 2020 on a note of optimism, and allow ourselves to have a little fun in the company of someone whose enthusiasm is, dare I say it, infectious. So get yourself a cup of tea. Make yourself comfortable. And let's meet today's guest Hello, and welcome to Thin End of the Wedge. Thank you for joining us.
Oh, it's a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you.
Can you tell us please: who are you, and what do you do?
Yes, I am Mr. Nicky. My full name is Daniel Nicky. I am an educator and a musician. And I have created a YouTube channel called Mr. Nicky's World History Songs. The most popular video on that channel is about ancient Mesopotamia. Which is why I'm so glad to be talking to you today.
How did you get into doing world history songs?
¶ origins of the Mesopotamia Song
I am a teacher. But my degree was in English with a minor in biology. Immediately after I was graduating from university, I was offered a job in Indonesia. And so I took it right away. But there opened up an opportunity to teach really, whatever any school needed, because international schools don't require you to have a degree in social studies to teach social studies. And the same with
charter schools in America. And it was at the time I was teaching at a charter school in America that I was teaching social studies. And that lesson that we had on Mesopotamia, I was really able to drive it home to the students with a song because I'm a musician. I have several music projects. But at the time, I had written a parody that was based on their unit on ancient Mesopotamia using a song at the time that they were
singing nonstop. It wasn't on mainstream radio, but I was teaching in the inner city of Chicago. That started me off doing what I'm doing now as far as my YouTube channel, because after that the Mesopotamia song started to get attention. I soon had schools asking me for Ancient Egypt and Greece and Rome and following the curriculum of, you know, a middle school curriculum basically in sixth grade in many states in the United States. The students are learning about world cultures and world
civilisations. And so it happened that the songs that I was writing after that Mesopotamia song really coincided with a lot of the curriculum in many schools. And so I was eventually introduced and invited to one school and two schools. And then I was flying to different cities. And eventually it became a complete tour every spring. Now, of course not this past spring, all my shows were cancelled. There were 33 shows I was ready to do all over the United States.
Oh, no. You didn't get to do any of those remotely? Does it work, if you're not there in person?
It does now, because, yeah. That's the lesson we learned in 2020. Because once all those shows were cancelled, there were just a handful of schools who even were brave enough to try a virtual visit. Those were successful. And now I'm booking a virtual tour for 2021. And uh ... but, yeah, it was a learning process, of course, for all schools, not just in the United States, but all over the world.
The songs you do, they're very entertaining, as well as educational, but they also fit the curriculum, don't they?
Yeah. And as I was getting feedback from schools, they would say, "Can you do a video on this? Can you do a video on this?" And so that was how I was able to kind of tailor my videos to the middle school curriculum in the United States, and even branch out now to United States history, because that was the overwhelming request. So now, even on my channel, I have a US history series. But the big hit continues to be that Mesopotamia song. I have some theories as to why.
¶ why it's popular
It's my favorite for sure. I'd love to hear why you think it's so popular.
Because I took the music ... you know, it's a parody from a song that my students were listening to at the time in the inner city of Chicago ... because that urban hip hop music is written by artists who are from a warzone. Teaching in the inner city of Chicago, I taught in a war zone. And that's the music that comes out of a war zone. So it applies very well, when you're talking about history as far as wars go. And so many wars have decided
the course of history. You know, of course, in ancient Mesopotamia as everywhere else that we study in world civilisations. And so that is the reason why I think that took off. And I think it's the same reason why Hamilton, if you're familiar with Broadway plays in the United States, there was Hamilton--Lin-Manuel Miranda, one of my heroes, he hit on it the same thing: by taking that urban music written from a war
zone and talking about war. Now I'm writing a song about the Revolutionary War and the lead up to it in the United States, and our split from, I'm sorry to say, our split from England. That was war. Those were riots. That was rabble rousing. That was lawless what the United States--I mean, of course, we weren't the United States--but it was lawless what the colonies did, you know. They really disrespected the law in so many ways, and they left their mother. And they rebelled
against the mother country. And so the hip hop fits so well. And so that's why I think it really hits a chord, that Mesopotamia song. And I've ... I've taken songs that aren't hip hop from the radio, you know, from artists like Ariana Grande and Meghan Trainor, and those go over well, too, because I think of the humour, the humour that's involved. Because we don't have records of the humour, and what they were laughing at in ancient Sumer. But they certainly were
laughing at things, you know. We wouldn't be able to understand their jokes--you might, knowing what you know about cuneiform.
The jokes don't seem to translate too well, I'm afraid.
Now, I live in the country of Indonesia. And this is the other reason I believe that my channel had success, because I gained an appreciation for world cultures. And so when I came to Indonesia, I didn't know what they were laughing at. And my rudimentary understanding of the language I still didn't get it. I didn't think their jokes were funny. But the longer I've been here, yeah, it's hilarious. Once you understand their humour, you just ... they
crack you up. And so I believe it's ... it was the same with the Babylonians. What made them laugh? Something had to, but when you relate that to the students, if you're able to relate that in any way to their humanity, as far as humour goes, and as far as music as well, that's, I think, how you reach and bring this historical information to the younger generation.
Let's play that song now for our listeners.
¶ the Mesopotamia Song
Eu-phrates River. Hey, got a new lesson for you about ancient Mesopotamia. Eu-phrates River and the Tigris River form the cradle of civilisation. Euphrates River. Hey, I got a new lesson for you about ancient Mesopotamia. The Euphrates River and the Tigris River formed the cradle of civilization. Akkadians long ago, Conquered Sumer, took control. Sargon led his armies, in their chariots they rolled. By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, By the
Euphrates River. By the Persian Gulf is where they found , Ancient ruins underground. Archaeologists did lots of excavation down, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River. Both the Euphrates River and the Tigris River used to flood, Bringing lots of fertile mud. But the problem was that water washed away their crops. Dams and levies made it stop. When it was dry they'd irrigate. Fighting over water led to war between the city states.
Cuneiform is ancient writing, That tells us Sumer's city-states were always fighting. They were the first civilisation in Mesopotamia. Then came the Akkadians who started empire mania. Akkadians long ago, Conquered Sumer, took control. Sargon led his armies, in their chariots they rolled. By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River. Near the Persian Gulf is where they found, Ancient ruins
underground. Archaeologists did lots of excavation down, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River By the Euphrates River. King Sargon got real old, Told his sons to take the throne. But the huge Akkadian empire would fall out of his control . Then came Hammurabi who would take full command. Hammurabi was the king of the Babylonians, (Man), Babylonia, Was the land where they told you "You obey Hammurabi's code, Praise
Hammurabi's code. Break Hammurabi's code, And you'll be saying 'oh no'". Akkadians long ago, Conquered Sumer, took control. Sargon led his armies, in their chariots they rolled, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, Near the Persian Gulf is where they found , Ancient ruins underground. Archaeologists did lots of excavation down. By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, By the
Euphrates River. Babylonians built roads. They traded grain for gold. They kept themselves united under Hammurabi's code. Hammurabi's code. Hammurabi's code. Hammurabi's code. Hammurabi's code, Which was a bunch of laws.They believed it had no flaws. They obeyed it just because, They thought Hammurabi was, Chosen by the gods (whoa), Chosen by the gods (whoa). Akkadians long ago, Conquered Sumer, took control. Sargon led his armies, in their
chariots they rolled.By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River. Near the Persian Gulf is where they found, Ancient ruins underground.Archaeologists did lots of excavation down, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River, By the Euphrates River. Mesopotamia!
¶ making the Mesopotamia Song
Can you tell us how you made the Mesopotamia song and how long it took?
Yes, this being actually not my first parody. I was doing educational parodies of different songs and using biology. I did one on English grammar. But this one, I think I wrote it in about two or three weeks teaching full time at the same time. And then I put it out there I recorded it audio with what I had at the time. This was back in 2007. And YouTube was just starting to roll in 2007. So I posted my song on a You ...
uh, not on a YouTube site. At first I posted it on a website that I had, and I didn't think it would get any attention, just like my other parodies. But a student had found it and they were savvy with YouTube, more savvy with [=than] me at the time. They uploaded it and got a million views. And I one day was googling my name, and I saw "whoo" {LAUGHS} "That's my song!" And she gave credit to Mr. Nicky. And that teacher invited me to perform at their school. And that's when I said "oh", but
I hadn't made a video yet. My first video was Ancient Egypt. That was trial and error. And then I did Greece and Rome. And those were starting to go well and I was getting my process down. But now if we're talking about the process, how it takes me to create a video like Mesopotamia, I spend a full month just watching documentaries and reading a middle school textbook for a guide, and a high school textbook if I can get, uh, hands on it. And I watch documentaries, let it really
sink in. And then I spend another month just on lyrics. So take my time, have fun with the lyrics. Then I spend the last month finding my images, and then recording and producing the video. So overall, it takes me three months now to create one of these videos. That's the long story about how long it takes me to make these videos.
I found that song by accident. I was just scrolling through YouTube late one night--I check YouTube every so often just to see what's out there. Because sooner or later, someone's going to write to me about it. A lot of the stuff you find there makes my heart sink, you know, there's a lot of conspiracy theories and aliens. So it's a case of take a deep breath, here we go. And I just came across that and thought, okay, I'll play a bit of that and see what it's like. And it's
great. You can tell you've done the research, you don't just pick out a few names, or throw in tired old stereotypes.
That's reassuring for me, thank you.
¶ researching the Song
How did you choose what to put in?
I realised time and time again that it's following the textbook, realising all the main principles, all the main concepts that the middle schoolers would need to know about the unit on Mesopotamia, trying to get those really into the song. You really can't go wrong, because I really appreciate these textbooks, how condensed they are, you know, taking all these primary sources and putting them together. They're really condensed. How do you put 1000s of years of
history into one unit? I have to give the credit, actually, to these textbook companies. I also had ... came across it again, I was invited to Beijing to perform in a school of Chinese kids. They were third graders, and they were singing my China song. And I was like, I was cringing. I was like, I had to be mispronouncing everything in that song as far as Mandarin goes or what have you. And they were singing it. And I was like, I can only give credit to the textbook actually. Because
otherwise, what would I know? I just stick to those concepts and those facts because you can go wrong in so many ways with history. You're summarising 1000s of years, billions of people. And in the one song. Stick to the basics. And that's what the textbooks help with.
You did quite well to find suitable books really.
Oh, I ... I ... I steal them from schools. {LAUGHS} If you need to get real good historical, accurate information, just go into a school and see if you can smuggle one out. {LAUGHS} No, I haven't. I haven't done that. Well, I ... okay, to be perfectly honest, I did have a teacher who said "just take this book". But otherwise, I buy them used on Amazon and they're really not that expensive. And once I get those in my hand, it's like, wow, this is like my songwriting manual. You know, I
just love it. I eat it up. And yeah, I love these textbooks.
Mesopotamian history and mythology is fascinating. But it does contain a lot of things that you wouldn't really want children singing about. Did you leave anything out as unsuitable?
You know, for my video on Egyptian mythology, I had to do that, because I had to go to so many other outside sources and look around. But you're safe with these textbooks that we have in the United States. They are kid friendly. They don't go into the depths that you're talking about. And some places I finally put two and two together, like "Oh, I bet you they're talking about this". But if I just stick to that sixth grade textbook as my songwriting manual, I can't go
wrong. There's nothing inappropriate in those.
Did you already know about Mesopotamia?
Oh, well, you know, being a teacher. Well, first of all, being a student myself, as a middle school student. I mean, I grew up in Illinois in the United States. And I vividly remember my teacher, Mr. Murray. He took us through the civilisations. And yeah, the Sumerians. He told great stories. He kept it pretty clean. When we got to the Greeks. I remember he was getting a little rambunctious. But, but as far as I remember, you know, being a middle schooler, my interest was
piqued. Anyway, then coming to teach in that charter school in Chicago, and they gave me the textbook. I loved it, because I love teaching all subjects really. So I've been given the chance to teach fifth graders and sixth graders in these international schools, and these charter schools and so they handed me that textbook. I was like, yeah, so it was no burden at all. And even to this day, you know, I love these textbooks. They're just so
condensed. After studying from these books: the history of China, what I need to know; the history of India, what I need to know; the history of the Middle East, what I need to know; putting those things together, you really become a history lover. Because it's like watching one long movie that's real. It's like uh, you know, you're waiting for the next sequel. It's kind of like Star Wars, where you might have watched Episode Four and Five and oh, Episode One, I didn't
know all this. Oh, and then there you go, Episode nine. You can skip back and forth and then fill in the pieces. And, yeah, you're jumping to conclusions all the time, still, but you're filling in a lot of gaps that really gives you knowledge, and it's a lot of fun.
¶ reactions to the Song
How do the students and teachers react?
Oh, it goes over so well. I'm not invited by the students. I'm invited by the teachers. So when I have a tour of 33 schools across the United States, these are all teachers who are using my videos just as introductions. But they have a lot of great stuff. They excite the kids. It all depends on the teacher. And yeah, unfortunately, every school is different. And, you know, every
teacher is different. In one school, you might have a math teacher that really lights up the students, and the social studies teacher just bores them, but you never know. And so it really comes down to the teacher. And I keep running into fantastic teachers who, yeah, they could have their own channels on the History Channel.
People have different interests, and they respond to different learning styles, don't they? How do you go about getting everybody interested and making them feel comfortable?
Oh, well, this is the good thing about my job, uh, is because when I'm invited to a classroom, it's because those students are huge fans. And so I come in and, you know, back in my day, to be a celebrity, you had to be on a big screen. YouTube celebrities? What? That's not a celebrity. But I go into these schools, and I'm a YouTube celebrity to them. And so they're asking me to sign their papers. They eat it up.
But it's because they've been watching these videos from September, October, when they're introduced to Mesopotamia, November, then they get into Greece, they get into Rome. A lot of times they do Middle Ages, and I have videos for those. So they've become fans over the course of the year. So when I finally come in there in April, May or June, they already can't wait. They can't wait to have the assembly, they can't wait to talk to me, ask me about YouTube, want to write songs
together. It's a blast. And so that's the great thing about me is that I'm not tied down to the classroom. I think if I was teaching in those classrooms all year, yeah, it can be a grind. It can be drudgery at times. It's doing the forms. It's doing the test. It's standardised tests, and I would lose my fun edge.
Do you have a favourite thing about Mesopotamia--something that fires the kids up every time?
Yes, it's all in the chorus of my song: "Akkadians long ago Conquered Sumer, took control Sargon led his armies, in their chariots they rolled. By the Euphrates River." So Sargon took control. He was rolling. But Sargon.
he was one bad dude.
¶ plans for future work
Do you have any plans for more Mesopotamia theme songs?
You know, my next video, I'm doing one right now on the road to the Revolutionary War in America. And now after that I am overdue--and I've promised teachers on both coasts of the United States. And I'm going to take textbooks from both New York and California for these two teachers who have been supporting me for years and have me do shows for years--that's going to be on prehistoric man. And so the Neolithic age, Palaeolithic age.
I will tell you, though, I do have a dream to come back with Mesopotamia on the History Channel. It's my dream, because I think it could possibly work, because that's the song that middle schoolers have been singing for years now and have been watching my videos. So that's the one, that's the video of all my videos. That's ... that's my hit and the rest are, yeah, there's some are doing better than others. But Mesopotamia is the one if the History Channel ever wanted to
work with Mr. Nicky. {LAUGHS} I would be doing it and I would do it. I would make it fun. I'd make it like an acting, taking what we know about, yeah about cuneiform, all the artifacts that we can put together. Finding these bits and pieces of humanity. Of course, having to clean it up, as you mentioned, not needing to talk about a lot of the issues that really kids don't need to know about at their young age. But making humorous skits, starting with Mesopotamia and putting music
like I do on my channel. I figured it out as well. I parody songs off the mainstream radio, but I'm working it out license wise. It's very possible, because when I first started doing these songs ... are like, I can't, I can't monetise these; these songs belong to these record labels. But as I educated myself on the business end, these songs, these parodies. Yeah, I have ways to license now and do it all very legally. And
everybody's happy. So I'm telling you my dream for Mesopotamia with Mr. Nicky.
There are other creators out there who produce fun history and parody songs. Do you have a look to see what else is out there? Do you have any favorites?
Oh, this is where I'm kind of strange, is that I want to do my own ideas. My ... I have so many out-of-the-box, strange ideas. And one of them worked. It was the {LAUGHS} it was this channel, you could see it. I approve, it materialised. And so all of these ideas, you know, and being a creative person, you really don't want to be checking in. And when you do something that somebody else has already done. Yeah, it's fine,
you know. You know, so I don't, even when I have an inspired idea, where could have somebody else been already doing this? I don't check YouTube, I don't check the internet. I just do it. And hopefully I'm the first one there. I often think that creative people, we're all downloading and uploading from the same Creative Cloud. So I'm happy for the successes of others and I'm happy for my success. And yeah, if they overlap, it's ... I don't ... never see it as any kind of
competition. And I never see it as anything that could be cutting into what I do. Because, yeah, as a creative person, it's ... it's, you know, you're connected to an unlimited fountain of creativity, you know, you could just do something else. If somebody shut down my channel, I'd be doing other projects.
¶ working with youth groups
Talking about the projects, you work with West Javanese youth. I think that might transfer quite well to Iraqi youth. Could you tell us something about that work please?
Yes, speaking of other creative projects, you've just hit on something that really excites me: is that both in Iraq and in Indonesia, building their interest in archaeology. In Iraq, you know, we know about the treasures they have. In West Java, where I'm at, it was all oral history. A lot of the buildings were bamboo, got wiped out by monsoons, and we have no records, everything is just
legend. And so there are these monolithic pyramids, or they're monolithic religious structures, and nobody can really put their finger on who built them, when they were built. So when you take these kids, it's hard to excite them there. Because Yeah, that comes with years of experience with history and cultures, and knowing your own culture and knowing your artifacts that came out of your own country. It's hard to excite young kids there. But music, when you can get into what was
the music? What instruments were they playing in Babylon? What instruments were they playing in West Java, the hundreds, 1000s of years ago, and realising these are folk instruments that you can learn yourself. They're actually in some ... a lot of them are easier than the guitar. This is what I'm doing now, is I'm writing songs with these instruments. And collaborations. And I've done band collaboration with the ethnic West Javanese music and rock, and had support
from the government. Once you have success, though, of course, and the money starts rolling in, you have problems. So that's, that's what happened there. But I learned from that experience, and I'm still doing this. And so I'll keep you posted.
We're recording this just before Christmas, and there seems to be no escape from Christmas music. Kids love to sing funny alternative lyrics to Christmas songs. You know, "Jingle bells, Batman smells". Do you find yourself making up parodies of Christmas music?
Well, this definitely would have been my destiny to be parodying Christmas songs. But I'm in Indonesia, and I've been here so long. And so yeah, we don't have Christmas here. And so I've kind of forgotten about it. And I haven't been back to the United States for Christmas in many years. And my family thankfully is, you know, my mother and father are still alive. And my sisters. They all get together for Christmas, but they don't miss Dan anymore because he's been gone so long. {LAUGHS}
They're just used to it now. So I definitely would have if my life is gone a different course, I would have so many Christmas parodies for you.
Thank you very much indeed. You've given us a lot to think about there. That song is fantastic. It really made my day. I know you put smiles on a lot of other people's faces too. So thank you very much indeed.
Oh, Jon, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on your show. Thanks a lot.
Id also like to thank our patrons Tyler Russell, Enrique Jimenez, Haider al-Rekabi, Jana Matuszak, Nancy Highcock, Jay C, Rune Rattenborg, Woodthrush, Elisa Rossberger, and Mark Weeden. I really appreciate your support, it makes a big difference. And thank you for listening to Thin End of the Wedge. If you enjoy what we do, please a month helps keep the podcast going and brings us closer to the point where we can make proper translations into Middle
Eastern languages. You can also support us in other ways: simply subscribe to the podcast; leave us a five star review on iTunes or your podcatcher of choice; recommend us to your friends;
@wedge_pod. If you want the latest podcast news, you can sign up for our newsletter. You can find all the links in the show notes and on our website at wedgepod.org. Thanks, and I hope youll join us next time.