Yoga is for everybody and every body with Jessamyn Stanley!

I got super into yoga. I love that I could just roll out of matt and do it on my kitchen floor. You know, it felt really accessible. Yoga should be for everybody, and as much as I love it, a lot of times, I have to admit that sometimes it doesn't feel like it's for everybody, and I think that can be true of a lot of fitness in general. It can you really exclusionary if you're not thin and white, and sometimes it can be really hard to see yourself

represented in the fitness space at all. Luckily, yoga teacher, author advocate, and entrepreneur Jessamine Stanley is using the Internet to change that. You know, I never set out to have the platform that I have now. I started sharing my yoga practice on social media because I wanted to find a connection to a yoga community outside of my house.

I felt very um, I don't know if ostracized is the right word, but I definitely did not feel included in my local yoga community in North Carolina, and so I started sharing my yoga practice on social so that I could connect with other practitioners and be like, is this how you're practicing triangle pose? Like how do you feel about down dog splits? You know what I mean?

Like I was really just like wanting to connect with other people, and so to me, to share my practice doesn't really feel like I'm It doesn't feel like anything more than existing. It feels like I'm just here. And the Internet is a really safe place for introverts like me to make community and to find the people that we're looking for. And that is really where I land with it. And it helps because there is so much that comes along with living in a marginalized body and

showing your life. And I think that if I had not set out with those intentions, I think that my perspective on it would be a little bit different, could be different anyway. What was the process of Jessamine connecting with yoga for the first time? Like, so, I literally never cared about yoga at all. I one of my aunts was obsessed with beak from yoga when I was in high school, and so she convinced me to go to a class with her when I was sixteen, and I hated it. I thought it was the first thing

in the entire world. And then when I was in graduate school, a friend of mine suggested that I joined her at a class. And at that point my life had changed quite a bit, and I was going through a period of depression, and I'm prone to depressions, so it was one of many waves. But she was like, oh my god, comed yoga. You're gonna love it. And I really thought of yoga as mean something that thin white women do. I didn't really think it had anything

to do with me. And even when I went to class, I was like the fattest person, one of the only black people. It was a very alienating experience for me. But what I didn't realize until I was actually in the room was just how often I tell myself no, so like what would happen is that I would be And this was also in a Beak from Yoga studio, which is a style of hot yoga. And the only reason that I really bring it up now is that

in Beak from Yoga Studios they have mirrors. This is not common I think in general with yoga, but um in this particular style they use mirrors. And so I'm looking at myself in the mirror, and I'm just judging myself so harshly I was saying. I'd be like, like, you have no business being here. Everybody around you can see that. The teacher knows you shouldn't be here. And I'd be looking at everybody else practicing the postures like they can do it, they know how to do it.

I don't know how to do it, so I shouldn't even be here, And like I would get to a place of like not even trying the postures. Like I would see the teachers start the posture and I'd be like, well, I'm not going to do that. And after a certain point, I thought, so are you gonna spend the whole ninety minutes doing this or like I mean, because you paid to get here, so you could do this for ninety minutes,

or you could just try. Maybe you fall down. Maybe the teacher sees that you fell down, and they're like, she doesn't know anything. Maybe all the other students see you and they're like, she doesn't know anything. Even knowing all of that, maybe you could still just try. And it wasn't even how much about having that experience on my yoga mat. It was really noticing all the other parts of my life where I do that, where I say like I'm not even gonna try. Why why I

try to do that thing? I can't do that thing? And yoga really became a place where I was able to practice jumping over barriers or giving myself the permission to run into a wall, and to see what happens when I actually look at myself in a really honest and authentic way and allow all of my truth to be there, the parts that I don't like especially and um, honestly, that is why I still continue to retreat to my yoga practice, is that it is the practice ground for

me to find stability and strength in my life. But I definitely did not understand it, like I'm talking about this like like esoteric lee now but I did not understand it that way at the time. At the time, I was like, I don't hate this. It makes my body feel good. I'll keep doing it. And honestly, that kept that pushed me through like five years of practice, was just being like, I'm just gonna keep doing this because it makes me feel good. So that's where I

started for sure. Wow, I have so much to say. A side note, my first time ever doing hot yoga was several years ago and a friend of mine who was very fit, was like, oh, come do hot yoga, and so I was like, Oh, I don't know what that is, but sure when I arrived, I was like, oh, I thought she meant hot, Like, oh, it's so hot right now. She meant no. I I said like, oh, I gotta get sup it out of my car and I left. No, that's oh my god. I totally identified

my very first yoga class. It was hot yoga, and the room is heated to like hundred and five degrees. It's like outrageously hot, and I was sweating from places that I truly did not know the human being swept from, Like I was sweating from the tops of my fingers and inside my eyebrows, and I made it like a third of the way through the class before I was like, I cannot be in here, like this is why these

people don't know me. And they told me at the beginning of class, don't walk out once you've already entered the room. But I was like, these people don't know me. I have got to get out of here. This is crazy talk. And I left the room and I immediately

felt amazing because there was air conditioning. But then when I went back into the room, I learned why you should not walk out of yoga, walk out of a hot yoga room like that, because the temperature change in your body is so extreme that it can have all kinds of negative effects, and for me, it was nausea and I eventually just walked out and I was like,

I'm never coming back here. It was seven years before I went back and tried it again, so I feel like that's really common that people will try yoga and they're like, this is the worst. Somebody told me I was gonna come and feel calm, and all I feel

is terrible. And all I can say is that I feel you, and the calm is a multifaceted concept, but yes, Oh my gosh, I mean it kind of it reminds me of what you were saying about how the experience of doing yoga really kind of freed you up to really see yourself, to fail to hit walls, to you know fully, kind of embrace a kind of humanity to yourself. And I think that you know, I love yoga, but

it took it was a while to get there. And I think that there's this misconception that you're gonna do it and that like you know, it's gonna like a white light is gonna feel the room and then all of a sudden, you're gonna be at peace and and and calm. Yoga can be sucking hard, and you can really feel things physically, emotionally, mentally that really challenge you.

And that's kind of part of the practice. It's not a magic bullet that automatically makes you feel zan or calm, but I feel like it's often sold that way exactly. I mean, it's really like a synthesis. It's a synthesis of an idea that while I definitely understand it, it also leaves so much the imagination and it leads out a lot. So like when you're saying you feel calm m at the end of yoga. This is like I felt so calm at the end of my practice today.

What I felt was that my body had been stretched to a place where my mind could relax and I could be present. And in order to do that, there is an agitation of the body that's necessary, and it just kind of depends how much agitation you want and need some people. For some of us, one posture is sufficient.

That is more than enough. And really, like I talked about this a little bit in my second book, Yoke My Yoga of Self Acceptance, But you really only need like one posture to practice yoga, and it's whatever posture you're in currently, because all parts of life are yoga ultimately. But if you are wanting to really like give your body a stretch and also sit in meditation for a long period of time, it's helpful to do a variety of postures that will allow you to arrive in a

place where you're a little bit more calm. But what that looks like is can be very difficult at times, and the difficulty is happening on purpose because life is difficult. Every part of this life is so hard, and I think that we get conditioned to expect for things to be easy, and we look for things to be happy and good, and so whenever things are challenging or difficult or hard or bad, we say, that's not how things should be. Things should be I should be happy all

the time, but nobody's happy all the time. You have to experience the darkness in order to even appreciate the light. Mm hmm. That is so true, And honestly, I think it comes up in my own love hate sometimes relationship with yoga, but also I guess fitness more broadly. You know, I love yoga. I do it. I start, I start. Every good day, I start with yoga. If I'm able to get on the map, you know, that's a good day. But I also and most of my yoga happens by myself.

Sometimes with your videos, I have to say, but I do it mostly in my apartment. And I think part of that is that for me, the experience of getting into yoga with also the experience of things like cultural appropriation or like whiteness and thinness really being shoved down my throat. Has this been some Has your work been a response to that? You know, I don't know about a response, but it's certainly existing within all of that.

And frankly, when I first started practicing yoga, I never allowed myself to be present to the spirituality of yoga. I've focused entirely on the physicality the postures because I was like, first of all, is this cultural appropriation? Because I am not South Asian, but I'm practicing something that is deeply embedded in South Asian culture and heritage, and I know that, and I'm also learning it from white people who have colonized as their jobs. So I'm like,

should I even be doing this? Like it made me keep the practice at a distance. But what I came to realize, and something that I think is um a little loophole in yoga, is that ultimately, if you are really living your yoga, if you're really practicing and looking within yourself, yoga will always lead you back to your own culture. It will always lead you back to whatever

lives inside of you. And I think that that is something that is really hard to understand within the parameters of white supremacy, because so much of white supremacy is about bringing us It's it's all about like neutralizing individual cultures and holding the idea of whiteness on a pedestal, and so that doesn't leave a lot of nuance for

us to accept our own individual cultural identities. And I think what it also encourages is white people to avoid doing the work of looking at their own uh wounds, internal wounds, and instead to try to appropriate or to where the mask of someone else's cultural identity. So I think that my work has really and it's not even like I say, my work, but it's really just like my yoga, my yoga is to accept my role in all of that. How do I personally uphold white supremacy

through my own internalized racism? How do I engage in cultural appropriation? How can I understand what appreciation is? And then on the topic of appreciation, how can I appreciate the heritage of yoga and how it exists in South Asia and also appreciate my own culture and show reverence to my own ancestry and legacy. So, yeah, I don't know if it's yeah, I don't I don't know if that answers your question, but it's not. It's certainly something

that's on my mind. For sure. It sounds like what you're saying is it's a practice it's a it's a it's a joy. It's like a lifelong journey, and that is part and parcel of the work. Yes, that's exactly right, That is exactly a hundred and that there's no landing point. There's always that if you're still here, still alive, there's still something to learn, and that that's really what I'm

opening myself up to. And what I hope that anyone who would ever learn about yoga in here or around me, I hope that that is what they would get, is that as long as you're still in the fight, you're doing it right. Let's get quick break at her back. So you probably know Rosa Parks from her work during the Civil Rights movement, But did you know that Rosa

Parks was also an avid yogi. Dr Stephanie Evans, author of the book Black Women in the Ivory Tower, studies what she calls historical wellness, or how elder Black women wrote and thought about self care. For Rosa Parks, yoga

was a family affair. Evans wrote that Rosa Parks learned about the power of daily morning stretches from her own mother and would practice yoga with her nieces and Dr Evans says that this focus on taking care of herself was actually a part of Rosa Parks's expression of activism. What ms Parks teaches us is that self care is

a part of resistance. She lived at the age of ninety two because she began to center her own health needs, she explained, and while we may remember Rosa Parks as being defiant and poised, images of her on her yoga mat all smiles in bow pose are my very favorite as a black woman. I am very much into my you know, black woman aunties and ancestors and the ways of which that they kind of set up a legacy

of social change and social justice. I feel like I'm kind of like walking in the truth of my ancestors, and as much as I hold reverence for them, that feeling can sometimes lead to me sort of like, I don't know, herofying them in a way where they're not

really real people. And there's this I mean, I'm sure, you know, And there's this image that I came across several years ago of Rosa Parks doing yoga and I haven't framed on my desk because we think of Rosa Parks as this like, you know, I think that like, it's so easy to think of her as his picture in a history book or a picture a picture on like a Black history poster, and the images of are smiling and doing yoga, And in fact, she really enjoyed

doing yoga a lot. She was like a like a she had a practice, and I do think about that picture just reminds me of the way that yoga and all of these other little ways that we experienced physical joy and physical fullness can be a way of tapping back into my specific cultural heritage um in a way that allows me to be a bit more loving. I

guess yes. And I would even take it a step further that when you think about the legacy of Rosa Parks and think about the work that she did, the amount of spiritual fortitude that was necessary, the strength and the ability to see beyond the present moment but also to be in the present moment, those are all things that are that come through restorative healing practices like yoga. And it's I love so grateful for the legacy of

people like her who literally were like, Okay, cool. So I'm gonna change history casually, but the way I'm gonna do it is by practicing yoga like these, so that when we look at social justice works specifically and we say like, like, if we're all being present to the ways that we contribute to our communities and that we're all activists ultimately, then coming from that place to heal yourself and to work on to to put your own healing journey first is the first step of activism and

of social justice. That like, there's nothing without that ultimately, that if you're not taking care of yourself, there's no way that you can take care of anyone else. All of the horrible things in our society, whether it's capitalism, whether it's white supremacy, those forces want us to be

burnt out. They need us to be completely drained and feeling like we're pouring from an empty cup all the time, and that one way that we can reclaim is to experience, you know, that that spiritual and physical fullness or you know, whatever it is that makes us feel more whole. Like that's the way that we can sort of quietly reclaim that and and push against all those destructive forces. That's exactly right, That is why it is so the first

thing that they come for is our spirits. It's the first thing and and our breath being connected to that that whenever we reconnect to our breath, it is the greatest sign of strength and power and an inability to ever be silenced. And I think that it's so important as things become more chaotic, more tribal, more violent, it's really important for us as a society to remember that to take care of yourself is the first line of defense. I love that that's such a good reminder at a time.

I think, frankly, we could all use it always, every single day because there's always something new. That's the other thing about now is that it's such a reminder that, like, you know, nothing is forever, and that the present moment is paramount. And I think it will only get harder to remember that, and so it's helpful to have the tools in place. Yeah, I that is a word, you know.

The last few years and it felt like everything is on fire and awful, and just the reminders to breathe, reminders to be present, Reminders that you know, my own personal vibe takes the shape of like escape. So it's like if I can drink too much or other ways

to like unplug an escape. But ultimately I know what I'm trying to do is like avoid having to feel what it feels like to be in my body and be present, and like, you know, I don't know, like as bad as things have been the last few years, I'm grateful that I've that I've been able to lead into the opportunities to reconnect with my my presence and my breath and my body and all of that totally

literally same. And you know, I think that there is some there's so many lessons to learn and escapism that I feel like are really helpful and impossible to learn otherwise. But there is always this line of like what is it like to just try to experience your own torment and to really like just let the bad ship be there just like it's like, yeah, it smells bad in here, that's because there's trash. It's okay, it's no big deal.

And like I feel like every every stroke of yoga that I practiced prior to was practiced for and beyond because I feel like literally every time that I come to my map, that I come to my breath work practice, especially in what I think of as the yoga of everyday life, the yoga where the yoga of not cutting someone off in traffic, the yoga of not like wanting to bust a cap in somebody's ask because they said the wrong thing at the wrong time, like all of that.

Those moments are the moments where I'm like, Wow, yeah, I'm glad that I'm glad that I'm breathing. I'm glad that I could just practice like inhaling and exhaling and really just try to receive another human being. That is so much I think of. There's so much that comes from not accepting ourselves, and one of the biggest things is that it means that you can't accept anybody else.

And so to me to be able to like just take every challenging moment as an opportunity to just receive another person and just hear where they're coming from and not try to make it about me and what I think and what I deserve, and just be like, you're another human being, what are you saying? Not even like I need to do anything with what they're saying, not like I need to agree or like it, but just can I receive? And that, I think is like, I

don't know, it helps. It helps. It's so funny to hear you say this because from watching your videos, I always think like, oh, just a man. It is such a a then centered person probably never cuts people off in traffic, and you're like, oh, that's part of the practice. I am a very volatible person. And I definitely you know, I thought before, like, what is the difference between me

now and me before I practice yoga? And I think that before I started practicing yoga, I was a little bit mad all the time, like a little bit unsettled all the time. And even now, it's not that the anger is not still there. And certainly I mentioned depression before, but like I absolutely still experienced depression, waves of depression. M It's not that it's not there. It's not that the bad ship isn't present. It's that I'm okay with it, or I have the opportunity to be okay with it.

I don't have to judge myself for being uh complicated. I don't have to judge myself for being mean or for being problematic, Like I can just be all of those things. And I think that, Um, it is a day by day journey, and some days I wake up

feeling it and some other days I do not. And the most important thing for me, I think always is to just like not try to cover it up, like toxic positivity, I think is the biggest issue, like anytime saying that, like you know, I'm just talking to think about that, I'm gonna focus entirely on the happy things, like no, it's got to be at least for me,

and I'm I'm a double cancer. So this is really this may be specific like water signship, but like I feel like if I don't experience every emotion fully, I won't get over it. I will It'll just fester underneath, underground, and it might not be today, it might be years in the future, but it will come out, and it'll be worse than if I just set it straight up from the beginning. I identify so hard. I could talk all day, but I will just say I agree, and I see you more. After a quick break, let's get

right back into it. Jessamine's work is grounded in body positivity at a time when the term can be so watered down and co opted to the point where the very idea of body positivity can almost lose its meeting. One of the things I really was excited to talk to you about is the idea of the body positivity movement, and I love that so much of what you do

is grounded in making space for bodies. But my question is, do you ever feel like both body positivity and sort of wellness like quote wellness have been kind of co modified to the point where whatever radical meaning might have been in there, we sort of I don't know, it just seems like it's so easily kind of turned into a happy slogan and the reality of what what that kind of stuff looks like it's kind of lost. Oh yeah, totally.

I mean, I think that happens with all movements low key, that whenever it becomes whenever a movement is like popularized or becomes when it starts trending, the impact of it gradually degrades. And I think specifically with body positivity, which I think a body positivity is really being like an offshoot of body of fat, fat positivity and fat acceptance and fat acceptance as a movement deeply radical did not start yesterday. A percent has been like in the sixties

and seventies like there. I mean, that's and that's me really just being kind of vague in general, but it has existed for quite some time. And body positivity, I think from fat positivity has always been seen as like kind of a bullshit movement, low key, like I think that people in the fat acceptance movement fat positivity have always been critical of body positivity because it is more general, and I thought a body positivity is being like basically saying,

you're okay today, exactly as you are. You don't need to change anything about yourself. Your body is exactly as it needs to be. And when you accept your body, then you can do anything that you want, which is a really cool message. And it's not actually about body size, which a lot of body positivity has become about. The message is not what I just said, and it becomes like fat girls deserve the same clothes as thin girls

or something along those lines. And so it's not and it's not noting the extent to which black, black uh creators, in particular black fat creators have been really instrumental in the body positivity movement being what it is now like it excludes all of that. And I think that because of that, maybe bastardization is taking a step too far,

but also maybe not because of that. Certainly, simplification of the message body positivity has been co opted by a lot of people that I think that their intentions are good, but what ends up happening is that the message just becomes water down, it becomes deluded. And so now, in response to body positivity, even just the idea of being positive about your body, like a lot of people push back on that and they're like, I don't want to feel positive about my body all the time. And so

from that, body neutrality has um has sprung up. And the idea with body neutrality is that you can be neutral about your body that like, you don't have to feel any kind of way about it. It just exists and then you go from there. And my feeling about that is that body neutrality is it's not really possible because we're not neutral. Our bodies are not neutral. We're

political beings. Our bodies are radicalized from birth, and so to say that you're neutral towards your body is to really like lose responsibility for what it means for your body to show up in this world. But you know, at the end of the day, this is this is maybe a niche clueless reference, but at the end of the day, the more the merrier, I'm just like, Okay, I feel like it doesn't really matter what you bring. It doesn't really matter how you get to the party,

as long as you get there. I'm like, we have to get to a place whereas a people, we stop worrying about our body, we stop talking about our bodies so much, because right now we live in an age where like, if someone's nose doesn't look the way that they think it should, then it's like their life is over and they shouldn't exist. So, like, we can get to a place where everybody knows that your body is the way that it is on purpose, you are the way that you are on purpose, You're not a mistake.

Then I think from that place we can start to heal some of the deeper systemic wounds that exists in our society, Like there's no healing of systemic racism without first accepting that your body is okay. So it's I don't think that there's anything wrong with the movements, frankly, like, I think that the delustion ultimately leads to more people having a conversation about their bodies, and it leads to

greater change. But I do think that it's important for us to be aware of the fact that a movement or a title can't be the fullness of your identity, so that like, if the movement is gone, where do your values lie now? Where do they lie? Then? Mm hmm. That's such a good point, in such a good way to put it. And I think you're you're so right, Like it's so the idea that you could just exist neutrally, especially for black folks, especially for black women. It's just

like it's just like it's not gonna happen. Like I have been going through some stuff recently, like I just became an aunt for the first time, and I thank you.

I'm an auntie to a beautiful baby girl. And when she was born I kind of had to do a lot of inner work to realize I had a lot of fear and anxiety around what I remember from being a black girl in the South, and all of the negativity and hang ups and the way that like even people in my family, people who loved me, just felt like love for them was about it could only kind of exist as a criticism, right, like my hair wasn't right, my way it wasn't right, this wasn't right, my clothes

would weren't right, my short everything, and the idea of my niece being born into the world, knowing that she might get that same stuff hung on her that I spent a lifetime working to unlearn. Like that was really hard for me. And I think, like I wish we could get to a place where when a little black girl is born, you're not thinking about all the ways that society is going to be so hard on her and and critique her and politicize her and judge her

and sexualize her and all of these different things. I wish that was a place that we would get to, But I don't think we're there. Yeah, I think we're not quite there, But I do think that every step

is a step in the right direction. And I feel like it's so important for us to individually be doing the work exact actually as you have described, like acknowledging those parts of yourself, seeing the ways that you're like continuing the cycle, and just being like as gentle and accepting about it as possible that I feel like is all anybody could ever ask. Like there's nothing else to

be done. And that's because even as we evolve as a society, and even like if we heal everything that are at all of the wounds that our ancestors created. We're just gonna make new wounds because that's what life is about. Like, it's just about having those experiences. But it's so beautiful to notice what you're talking about into just take that step forward to do something different being

that queer and black. On the Internet, I mean, the people will have a lot of opinions about your body, your clothing, your diet, it and really your existence overall. Something that I've really noticed a lot is that, both on the Internet and in real life, I think that people feel very entitled to have opinions on bigger black bodies. And it's it's always these assumptions like, oh, that person can't do yoga, that person can't be healthy, that person,

you know, shouldn't be eating that or wearing that. And I wonder like, like, like where do you think that comes from? Like, like why do you think that when people see a bigger black body, For a lot of folks, their first like knee jerk reaction is to criticize them or to make an assumption about who they are from a screen that's gonna be a picture of a stranger. I think there is so much hatred of black people in general that I think that's a huge piece of

that specific thing. I think that when it comes to that black bodies that I think that fatness is uh really demigrated in every society and in all cultures. And I think especially in the black community, black people shading other black people, that fat blackness is not accepted. And I think that there's this desire often to colonize and to have an opinion about ship that really is none

of your business at all. And I think that people, I think it's so normalized, and because of the medical industrial complex and all of the research around what obesity is and these health statistics, people think that they're literally like doing you a favor to say like that's not healthy, or like that person is doing a bad thing, etcetera. And really, I think it just points to deep insecurity in the self and the feeling that like maybe by

controlling other people you can control yourself. And it's just really, you know, I don't even really know what he has to say about it. It's just I think it's something the human beings do to feel better about ourselves on an individual level, and it never works out that way because it always just makes you sadder. Yeah, and you just really named one of my like one of my biggest pet peeves, the concerned trolls, and they're like, oh, I'm trying to help them out. I'm trying to give

them some device. I'm trying to like, No, you're not. You're literally being hateful. You're really you really don't care about this person. If you did, you probably wouldn't be leaving hateful comments, Like exactly, I hate it so much. It's such a pet peeve of mine. Yeah, I really feel like it just makes me sad whenever people, for whatever reason want to lean into the negative, because it

means that they are really sad. Like anytime that I see trolling in general, I just think, like, damn, that person is really sad. Because if you're happy, or if you are if you're feeling happy, you want for other people to feel happy. But if you're feeling sad, you

want for other people to feel sad. And I think there's a lot that we can do on an individual level and then on a collective level to be manifesting compassion for ourselves individually so that when we come up against that or see people like really just going in I mean, people get violent with their words because they are feeling so sad and desperate, and to respond to that desperation with hope and with love and with compassion is a triumph. It's the It is the opposite of war.

So I feel like I agree with you. I feel the same way. Back in January, Jessamine was on the cover of the fitness magazine Self. She looked absolutely incredible. But when Donald Trump Jr. Posted that cover on its Instagram with the caption what are your thoughts? Well, I don't think I have to tell you that the comments were not nice and he knew exactly what he was doing, setting his six million followers up to knock Jessimine down. Only it kind of didn't work. I know that for

you fucking Donald Trump Junior. And he did the thing that I like. It burns me up because at least haters can be like, I'm a hateful person. Here's a hateful comment. The thing that really gets me is when someone on the Internet posts a picture and then they'll just be like mm so that's question mark. And I see it all the time, and I'm like, Okay, first of all, if you're gonna like you know what, you know what you're doing, you know what you're trying to say,

why don't you at least just fucking say it. But like the thing of like throwing a stone and hiding your hands, I cannot stand it. I see it all the time. I hate it. No, it's totally small dick bullshit. And I mean, like, honestly, I'm just like I feel you. I mean, like when he said he was talking shit or or encouraging other people to talk shit, I really don't know because I wasn't that much attention because it

has happened so much, and I'm just like whatever. But I feel like, frankly, first of all, any time that a white man is talking ship about my body, I'm like, Okay, so you love it. That's part of the issues that you love it and you feel like you can't say that, So okay, heard got it talk about something that I learned from my ancestors. But I'm like, okay, I got you. But then also I'm like, oh, and then there's also a piece of me that's like thanks for the free publicity.

Sounds great. Um, I don't really have an issue with that, but I'm also like, damn, this really pushed you, Like, this really provoked you. It made you think it made you, like like it made him, it made anyone anyone who has that like, that's strong of a negative reaction. I'm like, you just got pushed. You got pushed, and maybe you got pushed to the to the next level. Maybe you got pushed to think about things in a different way,

to see the world in a more expensive way. And that's where I feel like the onus is on me or on whoever is receiving the trolling to say, like, who am I in this circumstance? What do I stand for? Do I believe in myself? Do I think that I deserve to exist? And if that's the case, if I think I deserve to exist, when everybody else deserves to exist, everybody else deserves to have their opinion and post about it on Instagram and ask for feedback from other people.

Everybody has that right, and what I can do is just try to find ways to enjoy it and to not be held back by it. Jessamine is continuing to build community on the Internet to grapple with those very same questions. Her new digital wellness app is called the Underbelly or Anyone can explore wellness and yoga in a way that affirms who they are and however they're showing up.

So tell us about your new app, the Underbelly. How are you using it to have a different conversation about our bodies and wellness that are may be different than some of the other spaces that we've seen. Totally, I think that wellness has been defined very one dimensionally. It's become about what you look like and whether or not you fit in and what ever the wellness practice is going to do for your body or like what other

people will think about it. And the underbelly is really about acceptance and about accepting yourself exactly as you are accepting your messy house. Your kid that you is practicing yoga on the map with you, maybe your dog is practicing on the map with you. Maybe you don't have a yoga map. Maybe you fart compulsively, Maybe you do all kinds of things that people have told you that you should feel bad about. And the underbelly is the space where you don't have to feel bad about it.

You don't have to feel bad, you don't have to explain yourself. There's no explanation needed. It is wellness without requirement. And I think that for me That is what I when I first started posting my yoga practice on social media. The community of the Underbelly is what I was looking for. I was looking for a place where it was okay to be different and too to be unapologetically so, and that more than anything, more than yoga, specifically more than meditation,

which we do offer this, I mean the Underbelly. You can practice yoga with me that you can go to the underbelly dot com and try a free trial right now if you like. But you can do practice yoga with me. Practice meditation, for sure, that's there. But really the space is there for you to just be yourself and not have to make any explanations for your identity. So I was this way before I started doing yoga.

I'm sure that there are people listening who are rolling their eyes saying, okay whatever, as if fitness or yoga or any of this mambo jumbo is going to help my life. What do you say to someone like that? Can you give someone who is a nonbeliever here is an easy, quick way to just try out these practices in your own life that might make a difference. First of all, I totally feel you. Your critique is legitimate. If you're like, um, that sounds like bullshit, I feel

you you're a real one. But the thing about it is, you can start practicing yoga right now with literally we can do it right now together. If you just close your eyes and take a deep inhale and take a deep exhale. This is all. This is yoga, literally just linking together. And so if you take that a step further, I would not go out and buy a yoga mat. You don't need to like go get books or go

get like a special outfit. Literally, if you have access to the internet, just go to YouTube, look up the very first free yoga class that you can find, and just give it a try, and if you don't vibe with the teacher, cut it off. Try another one. There are, literally there are so many free yoga resources on YouTube right now, and you just start and maybe, let's say, cut the class you don't want to try it for yoga class, I feel you just try one posture. Maybe

the posture is mountain post. Mountain posts can be practiced seated or standing. Maybe the pose is child's post, which is essentially like it's literally like laying like a child on the ground. Maybe it's corpse pose where you lie on your back, which truly I think is the hardest posture of yoga, any of those postures. You just start with that one posture, and then if you want to

do more, you do more. Maybe you get down on the ground into corpse pose, and then you want to try out cat cow pose, and before you know what, you're practicing vinyasa's and down dogs and all that. But also, that one posture is more than enough, and you don't even actually need to change your body from how it is right now. You could practice it the breathwork, the connection to the chronic life force that connects all of us, that can happen from wherever you are right now, and

if you vibe with it, that's great. But also, yoga is a very broad category, and there are yoga components in all forms of physical movement. So if you maybe yoga postures are not the thing for you, like finding some kind of wellness practice that reminds you to tune back into yourself and to listen to your own breath. That's really the point of all of it. That is beautiful, Jessamine. Where can folks keep up with all of your amazing

work totally. You can find me on social media at my name is Jessamine on most platforms, I think on Twitter, I'm at Jessamine's stand Um that you can find my name is Jessamine everywhere, and you can find The Underbelly at the Underbelly Yoga. You can find my podcast at Dear Jessamin, and you can get links to everything, including my books and my organization, We Go High. You can find all of that at Jessamine's Stanley dot com fabulous. Is there anything that I did not ask that you

want to make sure get concluded? Oh my goodness. The only thing that I would add, which is what I always say, is just thank you so much. Thank you for having me, and thank you so much to everyone who was listening, and thank you for being you. You were made this way on purpose. You are a creature of light, and who you are matters, and what you bring to this world is imperative. So thank you for being you. If you're looking for ways to support the show,

check out our March store at tangodi dot com. Flash Store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi. You can reach us at Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangdi dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Toad. It's a production of iHeart Radio and Unboss Creative edited by Joey pat Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Terry

Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amata was our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Tod. If you want to help us grow right and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Do well Will