WTF is going on at Netflix? BEST OF TANGOTI

with you there. Just a quick heads up, this episode was filmed while I was on medical bedrest, so it might sound a little bit different in terms of sound quality than the rest of our episodes. There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production of My Heart Radio and Unboss Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. There's a lot going on at Netflix. For the first time in over

a decade, the streaming service lost subscribers. Netflix lost about two subscribers, were originally expected to gain two point five million, and they also said that they expect to lose two million more subscribers in the second quarter. So who is Netflix blaming for this poor showing us the viewers for sharing passwords. But Gizmodo spoke to media analyst Michael Patcher, who is pretty dubious of the idea that sharing passwords is to blame, saying it's just the dumbest idea whatsoever.

Incidents of passwords sharing did not grow materially during the quarter. They've always known about it, he said, and Netflix pretty much agreed. The company acknowledged that a letter to investors that account sharing as a percentage of our paying membership hasn't changed much over the years, So, as Oprah might say,

what is the truth? Netflix laid off a hundred and fifty staffers, about two percent of the United States workforce, many of whom are black, brown, queer, and trans staffers who were specifically corded from other jobs to lead initiatives that champion inclusion at Netflix. Layoffs gutted popular programs like Strong Black Lead, a vertical for black content, which is often held up as a shining example of how to

market and build community around inclusive content. Other verticals that focus on content specifically for marginalized communities were also gutted by layoffs, like the Latin X focused Contoto, Asian American Focus Golden, and the LGBTQ focused vertical. Most now, it's unclear what will happen to these initiatives or to inclusive

content at Netflix going forward. But the company may have given us a little bit of a hint in a recent update to their culture memo, which basically says if staffers don't want to associate with offensive content they may put out, they should just quit. It says, if you'd find it hard to support our content breadth, Netflix may not be the best place for you now. This is probably a reference to content like Dave Chappelle's Netflix comedy special that led the staff walkouts and turmoil last fall.

B Paggles Minor, a black, trans then pregnant Netflix employee who was fired when the company accused them of leaking the fact that Netflix paid Dave Chappelle twenty four point one million dollars for us comedy special that included transphobic content. B gave us lots of good insight into the culture at Netflix. So let's revisit our conversation from this best ball.

After the release of Dave Chappelle's new comedy special The Closer on Netflix, Netflix staffers and their allies spoke up about the specials transphobic material and organized to walk out. Chappelle doubled down in a newly released clip where he said Netflix desk that they wanted a safer work environment, but that he's the only one who's not able to get into the building at Netflix anymore. I'm the only

one that can't go to the office anymore. But you want to know someone who most definitely cannot get back into the Netflix building. B Paggles Minor, a very pregnant black transformer program manager who Netflix fired for alleging they were the source of a Bloomberg article about just how much money Netflix spent on the special. Now Be disputes this, as do their coworkers, and even after B was fired, Bloomberg continues to publish new internal metrics from Netflix, making

it even more unlikely. B along with Terra Field, a trans Netflix senior software engineer who was suspended for tweeting critically about the special, have filed suits with the National Labor Relations Board, saying that netflix engage in activity took well employees from speaking up about working conditions, including seeking to create a safe and affirming work environment, speaking up about Netflix products and the impact its product choices have

on the LGBTQ community, and providing support for employees whom Netflix has treated in an unlawful and disparate manner. And as much as Dave Chappelle keeps talking about how he's being canceled, you know, naturally as one does from a massive stage in front of a massive adoring audience while earning millions for it, the demands of the Netflix staffers who walked out do not include asking Netflix to take

down the comedy special. Instead, Netflix staffers are asking for things like comparable investment and trans and non binary lead projects at Netflix, and more trans and non binary people in leadership positions. B is clear that this is about so much more than one comedy special. So my name is b pagals minor my pronounders they them there's and my current title is growing a Baby, And that's about it. So I read your Washington Post piece and I read

the piece on your blog. Both of literally talked about this journey for you really kind of fully embrace in who you are. And I guess one of my questions for you was like, what was it like to feel seen in that way? You know, um to share this truth about yourself? Like were you did you feel seen working at Netflix? Was this something that you know felt

it felt like a good fit. Yeah. You know, it's really interesting because I would say yes and though right, so like, in terms of the internal environment and Netflix, I definitely felt like I had a lot of support to be a black person, a trance person, a lesbian, you know, loud, you know, someone who dissents very loudly, things like that. But but one of the complaints I've always had, and something that obviously is coming up again here,

is the lack of content. So it was so strange to be like this internal employee, feel pretty validated, feel

pretty supported. But then when I looked at the things around screen, I didn't see anything that looked like me, and that coinn of dissonance was one of the things that bothered me most about working there, Right, you know, I really wanted to say, like, you know, fresh long from Mississippi, they are black, the actually the majority of Mississippi is black, right, the majority of Mississippi is also rule.

You know, why don't we have shows about that? I watched pe Valley last year and it was so funny because my friends were like, p Valley doesn't seem like your type of show. I was like, it's about it's about black people Mississippi. I was so excited. I was like, I was like, I finally get to see people who are like my family, who who that I grew up around.

And so it was always like that that a little bit of like, yes, I feel good because of a great benefits, have a great salary, I get to be loud, I'm doing some of the best work of my life. But no, because I really feel like we're missing the mark on showing representative lives of diverse types of people. Conversations around identity and representation at Netflix did not start

with Dave Chappelle. Internally, Netflix staffers have been pushing these conversations about whose story gets told and by who and how for years. Like many companies, Netflix has employee resource groups or e r g s, employee lead initiatives within a company that work to create inclusivity along certain demographics

and identities. There's Dream at Netflix to champion immigrant representation, Black at Netflix, lah I Am at Netflix, for Jewish representation Netflix, pre Veteran representation, Indigenous at Netflix, and more. Trans Star is the e r G that champions trans identity and representation at Netflix. That be helped lead and after the release of the film Girl a twenty nineteen Belgian film about a trans ballet dancer that faced criticism for its depiction of things like body dysmorphia and self

harm in the trans community. It's so easy for people to think that these conversations happening internally around Netflix and the and the content they produced, so and sort of the way that the content represents or does not represent all folks, you know, trans identities, all of that. It's easy to think that those conversations began and ended with this Dave Chappelle's special. But we know that's not true.

Can you give me a little bit of a history lesson of where these conversations that Netflix actually did start. So the trans specific conversation started around the release of Girl. So the Girl movie, it was definitely it was a misrepresentation of trans culture. And that's when you know, it was almost three years ago. That's when people first started asking questions about, hey, like, why do we put that out there? This is harmful content. It's not true. It's

a terrible representation of trans culture. Separately, I was also the e r G e r D lead for Black At right, and the Black at is the oldest e r G out of all the r g s and they've been talking about that for like six or seven years, right, So the six or seven years they've been talking about black content, black representation, making sure contents there. So the conversation around content and having it be representative is in

the d n A of Netflix. For diverse people who have worked there, the question has simply been why the heck has it not moved forward? Like, why the heck have we not gotten to the point that the content really reflects all of this This internal debate, internal conversation that's been been very very robust, and in fact, when you actually think about it, you know, a lot of the comments that have been made is, oh, well, Netflix is one of the first places that ever had a

trans person. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, we know when Verne was on Orange as a new Black you know, we we know you know, know me from since a But at the same time, you can only name two or three that's probably not a good way to go about this, you know. And then we also know when Laverne was the Orangines and New Bloods, they were dubbing

her words with men in other countries. What, yes, they really did not know that and it was so offensive and for instance, trans Star is another great example when trans Star was consulted by the dubbing team and they were like, so, how should we deal with this in the future, And we were like, well, you know, we understand that in different countries, in different languages, it might be difficult to find someone who perfectly matches someone's voice.

And if that is the case, just ask the person what they think, you know, don't don't just make an arbitrary decision, seek out, support, create relationships, and honor people by letting them be representing the way that makes most

sense to them, right. You know, that actually brings up a good point, which is that I was very surprised to hear that the trans Employee Resource Group was not really consulted at all and the rollout of this special And so part of me was like, why even have this group at Netflix if you're not going to actually empower them to be involved when things like this are rolled out. And so, for the sake of argument, let's say that the trans Employee Resource Group had been consulted

during this rollout. Are there things that you could have seen y'all actually like suggesting to make this less harmful? Yeah, And that's been that's actually been the number one point here, Like there's no desire to stop creative freedom, right, Like the simple fact is their contracts. You you move forward with the content based on those contracts. But there's no

desire to stop things. And so when I, you know, thought about it, when I first saw it, I was just like, why did you all decide to release this in October during lgbt Q plus history up, Like that's a terrible idea. You know, why did you not think about the term turf and how that? Because that became the the like Clackson, like that became the thing that everyone was focused on. And in fact, it was the external groups who were just like, you know, Dave Chappelle's

a turf. Netflix released this. It was all external people who were completely incensed that they saw something like that. And so it's like, you know, we could have said, you know, the trans Star group could have said, by the way, you may want to just cut that joke, like you know, you may want to like you know,

tweak that or like asked. And the thing is, and when I say that, I mean talk to Dave about it and say, Dave, your bigger point is this, like lgbt Q plus movement versus black movement, and your point is gonna get lost because of this statement, right, And so it's about making the content get to his point versus having all of this fure around it. And so that's the thing. That's what trands Star does, That's what

trains Star has always offered to do. One of the other things that I did is trying to star our lead was also to meet with content executives and all and I called it the friendship offensive. And all we would do is go have conversations with these folks and say, hey, we're humans, we're great, we can help you make great content. And I'm gonna tell you some of the pieces of

you know, productions that we worked on. I know for a fact that they're so much better because we just sat down with those people and told them different ways, and they would send us emails and say what do you think of this? What do you think of that? And all we did was consult, you know. It was never oh like, you know, we are the the we

are the barrier to this amazing thing being created. It was how can we make it better so that Netflix's reputation isn't harm so that trans people aren't harm and so that people get a good message out of it. That's such a good point, because the only thing I have heard about this UH comedy special is the transphobia and the turf comments and the and the JK rounding comments whatever. The other point David's trying to make it

did not reach me. It did not reach Twitter, and I don't I have to wonder like was that actually hit? Like I I feel like if he had been open to be thought partners with you all especially, would have been that much better, that much more, you know, just that much more truthful and authentic. And it's like, what a missed opportunity to make something better and also less harmful, Like what a win win that was just missed. Yeah, I mean one of the things I saw someone tweaked.

They were like, I haven't seen anyone dropped a video, a gift, a meme of the special. They had a joke in it, and they were like, how can the special be successful if they haven't dropped the single one? And I was like, you have a point. They've only dropped the really incendiary things and so go and so to your point is true, Like you know, I do feel like the special could have been so much more powerful if there had been that partnership, because I do

think I understand what he's trying to say. I disagree with it, right like. And I would say this because to a certain instance, the Specials trying to pick LGBTQ plus versus a civil rights movement. I am a black trans person. I'm at the intersection of these two groups. I get screwed over by both groups, right like like like legitimately I get screwed over by both groups, and so like, I do think that this oppressional olympics, like

one movement hurting another movement. I don't think that's true. In fact, if you think about the same sex marriage law that went into affect many years ago, they actually, you know, use Loving versus Virginia as part of their their logic behind it, because they're saying that minority individuals deserve the same rights as anyone else in this country.

And so I actually think that both the civil rights movement lgbt Q rights movement movement are in like, they're intrinsically leaning, and we would be empowered by uniting them versus assuming that one happens over the other one and it just I mean, I completely agree, we're we're definitely our movements are stronger together when we support each other, and it completely erases people at the intersections, like yourself.

As something about Dave's comedy seems to suggest that lgbt l g it's like that book, all the women are white, all the men are black, right, Like, all the LGBTQ folks are just default white, all of the black folks are default CIS, And it's like it completely erases that people exist at those intersections in a way that I feel like it's so like n like like get your get your attitudes and your ideas into two thousand into one, you know, exactly exactly, and the simple effect is and

you know, I think it was time like three or four years ago they were talking about what the future of the world's gonna look like, and all those people have meling it okay, right, like that's I mean, let's just be truthful the way that the world is actually changing,

the way that it's actually evolving. I mean, even gen Z, such a large percentage of gen Z around the world is completely open to not only lgbt Q plus people, but they're coming out increasingly earlier, right, so you know you have like no eight, twelve, fifteen, sixteen, you know year olds come out and say, yeah, I'm a part of the lgbt Q plus community, which is not something that has ever happened before. The world is changing rapidly right into the fact that we continue to have these

very antiquated conversations. It's just very disturbing to me, and it's a sign of how some people are, Like this is why you have to be thoughtful and you have to listen, right, Like I am now considering elder, like because you know, I'm over a certain age. I'm an elder now right in my community, because in the trans community most like so, there's been a statistic that says that many black trans people do not make it to the age of thirty five. I am not over thirty five,

So I'm like a grandparent. Like that's how that's how they perceive me. And it's just so interesting to me because even for me, I have to take a step back and listen to the younger people because they're like, you're more conservative than I am. And I was like, oh, I guess I am right, because I grew up in a completely different generation I came out much later because I was afraid, and you don't have that through mechanism that keeps you from being your whole self. And I

actually admire you. What do you mean me to help you with? Because you're so much further along than I was, and all I'm trying to do is make sure you have a stage place that's beautiful. First of all, I would have never thought you were over thirty five. That's so beautiful, you know, So this is that's black, It's so true. Let's take a quick break. There are No Girls on the Internet is doing a live show on May at Caveat in New York City and virtually from

wherever you're at. We'll have amazing guests, a meet and greet, and much much more. Go to tane got dot com slash Live and get your tickets and I cannot wait to see you there at our Back in Eddie Murphy released to stand up Special Eddie Murphy Raw and Murphy has this whole bit about how gay people didn't like his home with public jokes and how whenever he goes out to parties or out on the town he feels like there's going to be a gay mob out looking

for him, only he doesn't say gay people. He uses a slur. And it won't be no siren to be real facts. And now, something about this line, the idea of a gay person strapped at the top of a car as a siren, really stuck with me. And the takeaway from me when I was watching was that gay people are basically less than human and that pointing this out is funny. I mean, like, listen to this crowd. They were loving it, and I interpreted that making fun

of gay people was a clear pathway to acceptance from others. Now, I was watching this when I was just a kid. I'd already known that something was up with me, but I had not yet come the terms with being a queer person. And I watched the way that these kinds of jokes about gay people got Eddie Murphy so much loud, clear acceptance from other black people, And it was confusing to me at a time when I was already really confused. In twenty nineteen, and he wore if you actually be

visited his past homophole bit comedy routines. In an interview with The New York Times, he said that he looks back at all those old jokes and cringes. I was a young guy processing a broken heart and kind of an asshole, he said. He apologized for spreading homophobia and ignorant comments about HIV, saying that he's much more educated now. I now have a whole lifetime of experiences to draw upon. There was a time when I was at the center of everything, what I was doing, and how funny I was,

and how popular I was. I'm not the center anymore, he said. Now, instead of rarely against being canceled by the PC police, he reflected, he evolved, there's this attitude I've heard over and over again that what a comedian says on stage is just a joke. It doesn't have

any of real world impact. Now, there are scores of studies that suggest otherwise, And be put in another way, if someone is starting out from a place whereas many of the messages around them are telling them that there aren't even a full person, adding to that chorus makes things that much harder. Something that I'm kind of kind of almost sick of hearing is this idea that like, oh, it's just jokes, it's just jokes. I'm sure I don't

need to tell you that. Study after study after study has own, you know, a direct correlation between transphobic rhetoric and anti fans of violence. And so you know, what do you say to people who are like, oh, how many specials don't translate to real world harm? Like, like, what do you you? Probably I know that I've heard that argument over and over again, Like what do we

say this stuff like that? So, first of all, we know that's not true because if that was not if that was true, then a five year old grudge rated our movie, right, Like, we know that the content on

the screen impacts people. Now, the thing is is that that doesn't mean that, like today, after they watch the special, they're gonna go out and beat up someone who's trans. But that does mean that someone is forming an opinion about trans people based on the content that they're seeing, and that they could be discriminatory towards trans people or

they could be violent towards trans people. Later, we also know that the content that exists on the screen also internally impacts the people who are the target of that content, right, So, like you know, we also think about self hard if you're seeing this type of content, if you're seeing people talk about this and this type of dialogue, and you already are in a place where you're not a whole person, right, you know I was when I first started out. I

used to tell people, you know, naturally I am. I wake up every day with my glass half empty. Right, I'm a diverse person. I'm a multi diverse person. And so I hear constantly, whether it's about me being black and potentially being less than, Whether it's about me being non male and so somehow not being strong, Whether it's about me being trans and my differentness there, Whether it's about me, you know, being married to a woman and

how different that is. You know, how what is you like about me being married to a white woman, and how I've betrayed my race? Like, all of these things are coming through constantly, and so when you put out this content, all it's doing is trying to diminish a little bit that's in that glass, right, the little bit of hope and the dreams there. I'm very fortunate because I have an amazing support system, and I have an

amazing amount of education and fiscal ability. Because I've been so successful in technology for so long, then I have been able to fill that glass back up to almost

four But many people cannot. And so when you think about this content, all it's doing is diminishing the potential of those people, and then we lose out on that potential, Like as a society, we are literally losing out on bright lights who could help change this world because of the content we're choosing to push through out there without also making sure that we put out affirming content too. How hard is it to make another pose? Really, post

was pretty cheap. It was really cheap. You know, we can make like five poses and people would be so happy. That's such a good point, and I think it takes me. It takes me to this idea. There's obviously bullshit, but this idea that, oh, these Netflix staffers they want to cancel Dave Chappelle. But when you actually look at the demands that staffers were putting forth that Netflix, it's stuff like, you know, can we invest in a comparable way for

trans and gender not conforming and non binary creators? You know, can we elevate like trans content like the Disclosure documentary, which I love, you know, can we can we promote

that on the platform. It is such common sense things, and yet it gets sort of I don't know, telephoned into they want to cancel Dave Chappelle, And I guess my question is how do we combat this idea when there are so many people who are just hell bent on believing the absolute worst about the intentions here, Because when you actually look at the demands, it's just like what you're saying, like invest in trans and gender not

conforming creators, and that will actually improve the platform. Netflix will be better earth for it. And yet that gets sort of mistranslated into something that's just that completely not true. I mean, Oprah said it best. Oprah was just like, there's just some people who are not gonna convince. Right, You're just not going to convince. That's not the people

were trying to convince. We're trying to find that middle ground of people, the middle ground of people who are still trying to learn to be educated, who just want to know more. And so that that's the that's the main thing I'm focusing on, right. The reason I agreed to go on these podcasts and things like that, it's just spread this message because the people who listen to you, the piece of people who are looking looking at the outfits, those people are the ones who still have that ability

to be swayed. And the thing about that is is if if we sway a few of those people, they're also related to the mother people, right, And so hopefully they'll go in and say, hey, I don't want to hear that today, right, And and also this new thing. Hopefully, if you know, Netflix moves forward with with meeting some of these demands, there will be a new piece of content out there at some point that they watch as a trans character and that they love just because it's

a good show. And then eventually that will work out like this is a long term this is a marathon. This is not a short term thing. We're not gonna change everyone's mind short term. And the thing is we shouldn't.

If it was that easy to change people's minds, wouldn't be such hard work, right when you think about, you know, the other day, will be Obery was talking about the civil rights movement and she was talking about the fact that if we had waited for people to change their minds on the value of black people, black people still

wouldn't have the rights to vote today. And I feel as though this is the same as that conversation, the same as that conversation that you know, there's still so much movement we have to do for trans people, for black people, for women, for Latin X people, for Asian people. This is a NonStop marathon to have diverse people be seen as equal and have the equity they deserve in this country. The conditions that you are creating, I think can create change. That it's lasting, it's meaningful, That is

that reverberates, it is it. It does not begin an end with Dave Chappelle's funky special Like. This is a movement that has that has long, longer term longevity, and I just like love to see that. And I feel like in every statement, and you know, the thing that the that the staffers have put out that's been so salient to me. So I've just loved to see that so much. M you know, one of the things that I it's kind of a personal pet peeve of mine.

So many of the people that I talked to on this podcast, you know, they are marginalized people, they are historically underrepresented people. They work in tech companies, tech platforms. They're the ones who are putting in all this hard work of making these companies and these platforms look progressive or woke or with it now internally, they might be ostracized for this work, they might be punished for this work,

they might be fired for this work. But the companies are super okay with taking credit for it and being like, yeah, we're a WOTE company, We're so progressive, yeah, all of that. You know, do you feel like that's sort of happening here, that it is staffers who are already marginalized who are making like getting Netflix the shine to be like, oh we are with it, wote, progressive, new fresh, all of that, but also behind the scenes punishing those same staffers. You know.

The one thing I will say is is that there have been an internal movement before I was like, go to start rewarding people who worked with E r g S financially, right, you know, to to take that into account for their review. And it was the first time I've ever been at a company that it actually had

that that conversation. But I will say that this is thankless work typically, right, you know, you're doing all this work to create an environment that's great, that makes the company look great, and a lot of people don't really see that as a part of your work, and so that's something that needs to change, right because E r G work. Not only does it, you know, help the company see what's going wrong, but it also helps retain talent.

I can't tell you how many times I was asked to participate in something, whether it was you know, trans Star black at that helps make sure that a person didn't leave Netflix, right because I was able to help negotiate and explain to people what was going on, you know, when it came to the company culture, making sure that they understood where the culture had issues. You know, that type of work is super, super important, and it also is something that you know, is it's it's it's invaluable, right,

It's invaluable. There's no way to calculate how much that does for the company. And so I do think that this is something companies really need to think about, is how do you figure out what that value is because it is a differentiator between you retaining someone and not retaining someone. People want to work at companies where they

feel respected and safe. And I think that like that is a kind versation that I that I feel like it's easy to be missed in this particular situation, is that, like I wouldn't it doesn't surprise me that people are not necessarily feeling respected, listen to, seeing heard, valued, safe, And I feel like these days people are unwilling to attach themselves to companies that do not respect them. And I think that's great, but people want to feel respected

in their workplaces. And you know, I saw that statement that the CEO of net Let's put out where he was like, oh, you know this, I'd handled this badly, all of that, but not seeing the way that that trickles down to the staff. But at that at the top decisions make people feel so disrespected and unseen and unheard and unvalued. And how there are people like yourself who were going in and plugging those leaks and doing the work of of doing some recond and saying like,

you know, are you thinking about leaving? How are you feeling? Like, talk to me about where you're at, where you're where your head is at. All of that, you know that is valuable work. Yeah, And not only that, but also his apology, which I will say is not an apology, said like one of them was like, Oh, it's because we've been working from home. They forgot how good they have it. And I was like, that's what an abusive relationship says, Like you hit me today so that you

you should appreciate me. And I'm just like, but you hit me the other day, Like I don't like it doesn't work like that. So yeah, no, I definitely feel like, you know, it missed the mark right, because it really is more about how do you show up right? You know. Folks asked me, like, what should those emails, those first memos or emails should have said, And I said, it's very simple. It should have said, hey, we dropped the ball on this one. We should have done a better job.

Let's talk. And that's three sentences. His actual memo was like two pages. Those two pages to say nothing exactly, and so like that's the thing. Apologies are just apologies, like you don't have to like you don't have it does have to be convoluted. You don't have to justify yourself. It is apologize, have a conversation, figure out corrective action. Don't more. After a quick break, let's get right back

into it. I saw that Dave Chappelle said that he'd be willing to meet with Netflix staffers that don't want to include you because Netflix fired you unfortunately. Do you think that that would be, Like, what do you be willing to meet with him. Do you feel like that would be fruitful or productive or would that be like is that just like not even where your head is out?

I mean I was telling me with him, the whole point of this is to educate people, right, And Dave says that he cares right like, so that's some part of his statements too. He's like, this, this isn't me versus them, you know, this is about you know, other things. And so I would be glad to meet with him. And also I don't have to be there. I could also you know, if he wants to reach out, I can help him connect with the Netflix people as well, because this isn't about me, right, this is about the

work and then making sure this work gets done. Um. And I hope that he would actually listen. And actually I think he had mentioned recently he was you know, he said something like, but you have to have watched the special, and I'm like, well, like, we all have either read the transcriptive watched the special, so we've already

done all of our homework. I would ask him to look up what churf ideology actually means, um, and also understand a little bit more about transgender biology, you know, just so we can actually start off on the same playing field in terms of you know, what we're talking about.

Other than that, I let's go for it. In the piece that I've had on your blog, you referenced this like really famous um Baldwin quote, to be a new girl in this country is to be relatively conscious, and to be relatively conscious is to be in the rage most of the time. And you kind of had your own spin on it. You said, to be a black trans person in America is a study and courage and a fierce desire to not be forgotten. And so it just seems like black trans folks are so easily erased

and forgotten, not just in this conversation but everywhere. And you know, y'all have always been here. Y'all are part

of our history. And I guess I wonder do you find yourself feeling like you have to constantly create these monuments to your existence so that doesn't get erased, And not just monuments here existence, but this idea that you know, black trans existence is more than just like trauma and pain, making making sure that there's room for black trans joy, black trans dreams, black trans brilliance, like how do we build monuments to all to the three sixty degrees that

is black transmiss Yeah, you know, it's so funny. I'm talking to my cousin because you know, my cousin, he he was talking about you know, the special and um how it didn't hit for him, and we started talking about black trans people and on you know, translation remembrance. The majority of the names that's going to be read out as people have been killed this year are black trans people. And it's so interesting, Becau has those people

are just the people we know about. Those are the people who had someone who advocated for them, who said, this person was a black person, this person was a trans person. Because many people don't have legal name changes, like they don't have any they don't have people who are affirming of their identity, um to to represent their story. In fact, I was telling my cousin that I'm so fortunate because like my legal name is beat, like this is the name I chose. My documents show that I'm

a trans person. There's an entire reflection now in the zeke, the Zeitgeist. This says that I am being so no one can take my story from me, right, no one can take my story from me. And so that is the point, is the fact that so many people live these amazing, colorful, beautiful lives that are cut short, and because of the fact that as a society we're not quite where we need to be to understand and be

respectful that identity. Right. It's actually really funny because people talk about that you should have privacy in your home, but what we actually talk about, like what we actually see for black trans people, is as soon as you die, your privacy goes away. You become a part of the public conversation and they choose who you are. And so that's the thing about all of this. This is about choice. It's like, why do we choose to harm, Why do

we choose to defame? Why do we choose to let people be forgotten when we know they existed and they should be honored as such. And so that is the real core piece of this, And so it is it's an increasingly frustrating thing for me because he means, you know, there's a young man from Mississippi who was killed recently

and his entire family miss gender him. And it's his family, it's his chosen family who has done this work to get out the message of who he was, and I just think it's someone else from Mississippi who is just so fortunate that I get to control my or. And it's like Lis Hamilton's who will tell your story? If Hamilton's wife wasn't so bombed, who knows what we would know about Alexander Hamilton's right, Like, you know, that's the

thing that's crazy about this, that's beautiful. The where can folks support you support black trans folks more broadly, and what you folks do to support the Netflix staffers who are continue to continuing to speak out the first and foremost for the Netflix staffers continue to spread the message

about what's really been asked for. So if you um look at Twitter that are trans at Netflix Twitter handle and so the asker they're continue to share those asks so that people can understand what the real ask is. Here to um watch trans things. So Disclosure documentary is great. Also watch post because post really so as as a young young black TAM's person coming up the post that actually definitely represents a lot of my communities that I first met and who who helped me become cool because

I was a dork. Um, So I think that's really great to support, like trans content, especially posed to UM. And then for just generally, this is just the beginning, right, So this is just the beginning. So there's a lot of organizations out there. So trans Lifeline is a great organization. How are Brown Help in Chicago is one of the premier institutions treating trans folks and doing research on trans books. UM. The Transgeneral Law Center is also an amazing place to

support to they're doing really really great work. GLAD is a great place to support because they're trying to help talk about this media representation and change that. And then for me, I'm b Pagal's minor everywhere. Follow me on Twitter, you know, because that's rarely where I post a lot of content that I find that I think is very interesting. They can help people understand a little bit more context

as well. UM, But first and foremost, educate yourself. You know, if there's a curiosity that you have that you don't really know what's going on, chances are there the document, there's someone who's tweeting about there's someone who can help give you that context so that you can feel more comfortable, because, like you know, this is a long journey, Like you know, It's definitely not something that you figure out overnight. Mm hmm. Okay,

I actually have one last curveball question for you. You strike me as someone who likes movies, likes TV, likes music. Do you remember a time when a piece of media or piece of content or piece of art made you feel seen and affirmed. Post is a great example of something for me where I cried when I first saw it, Like I could not believe that those were the like

the drag shows, the ballroom. I was just like, this is this is literally what I first got exposed to, right, So this is before I came out of trans because, like I was, I refused to acknowledge the fact that I was trans. And I was in Memphis, Tennessee. I was home from college and my mother, my mother of all people, took me to the club to see a drag show because she was just like, I feel like

you need to see this. I like, Mama's no, they no, And so like I end up going to this drag show with my mother, which is really bomb, and I met a bunch of like a bunch of like the drag community, you know, who were also trans. And so some of the first things imposed like literally feel like they were exactly the exact same scene from when I first came out or when I first started to discover that maybe I might be different, and so that's a

huge thing. And the second example, which is like really strange and I don't know why I feel this way about this, but the second example is purple right. I think it's because of Princess Androgyny and so like I kind of felt like, you know, I was like I felt a little scene. And also it was so complicated, right because he was like this brilliant artist, but he's also so like messed up, and like I just felt like I just really got it because like I just yeah.

And so I mean I watched I rewatched that movie like probably multiple times a year, and the the whole soundtrack is like, that's my sound track if I'm in a I Gotta. I Gotta was the best contract. So the you are, you have no idea if if I could turn you around and show you all the different Prince iconography in my apartment, Purple rain is my thing.

Prince is my thing. And again, like it, Prince was someone who made me feel seen, especially in the black community, because you know, I grew up in the South, and I grew up with my uncle making gay jokes and using slurs, and everybody liked Prince like it didn't like even though there was a Prince was androgynous. Even though Prince was like, as my uncles would say, fruity, people fucked with Prince. And so to see the power that

he had in our community was it was intoxicating. I completely feel you on the prints, completely feel you, and you know, and you could get anybody he wanted, man, woman, like anybody in the whole world. I'm pretty sure Prince could walk into a room and just look at you. You'd be like, I, okay, where we don't go? Yeah, that's I think that's the other part of it is that it just completely redefined with masculinity, what femininly, what

everything was. And I think that that's one of those things that he probably did more work or so many different types of people than almost any other artist. And he would be drawing to not a woman, not a man. Something you'll never understand. The power of art, I mean, the power of representation, of power of art, the power of creativity. It's it's unmatched. If you're looking for ways to support the show. Check out our March store at tangodi dot com. Slash Store. Got a story about an

interesting thing in tech? I just want to say Hi. You can reach us at Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangodi dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd. It's a production of I Heart Radio and Unboss Creative, edited by Joey Pat Jonathan Strictland as our executive producer, Terry Harrison as our producer, and sound engineer. Michaelmato is our contributing producer. I'm your host,

Bridget Todd. If you want to help us, throw rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. H