There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridgett and this is there Are No Girls on the Internet. I am here with my producer, Joey. Joey, thank you for being here.
Hi, britsch It, thank you for having.
Me, Joey. How is your week going?
Oh that's better?
Right.
I could not talk for the first half of this week, which is not fine. But my voice is back, which is great. Then go in good sense then, so we'll see where it goes.
Well, I'm glad it's back. It is sounding smooth and great.
Thank you.
Let's use that voice to talk about some of these new stories from the Internet that y'all might have missed. So if you listen to this week there Are No Girls on the Internet. When you heard all about Ashton Kutcher's anti trafficking organization Thorn, So if you listen to that episode, then you know that social media platforms do not often allow adult content from humans because of legislation
like sta FOSTA. Social media platforms really crack down even harder than they already were on anyone posting content that involves sexuality on their platforms because of how that legislation really broadly interprets sexual content. Basically, you can't post anything related to sexuality and like that that definition is very broad and it just sort of leaves up to the platforms like what they think might be considered sexual content
or not. So anything that people post that even obliquely references sexual content, very often it's closely monitored and gets taken down with this.
Where this was remember the like Tumblr porn band, like a couple of years back.
Oh yes, I think about it all the time.
Like that was because of this, right, this was like yeah, yeah, yeah, which is so funny because I don't think Tumblr has been relevant since then, which I don't know which.
No, Tumblr has not been relevant since then, And it really had a broad like broad consequences for the Internet, right, like completely restructured the Internet landscape. I have argued this is just my take, so like take that for what
it's worth. I have argued that I think that was the beginning and a couple of other things, but Tumblr banning sexual content and adult content was the beginning of sort of that kind of existential question of like what is the Internet for being answered with like, well, it's to make money. Right, And so if like if Tumblr has to ban sexual or adult content in order to make money, then it's like, well, is this is the Internet really for community building or connecting with each other
or finding information about identity? No, it's about making corporations money. Yeah, So huge implications for the entire restructuring of the Internet
that we still feel today. So even though social media companies, thanks to legislation like Cesta Fasta, really cracked down on and closely monitor sexual content, that might actually not be the case when it comes to AI generated sexual content because NBC did an investigation that found that startups are explicit advertisements for AI generated adult content on TikTok, Instagram,
and Facebook. So this investigation found that about thirty five app developers are running sexually explicit ads on apps owned by all of those social media companies. The app developers are running more than one thousand ads, and all many of them easily discoverable and viewable from Meta's online library of ads, which the public has access to. There were fourteen app developers running hundreds more sexually provocative ads on TikTok, and BC News found this is a little bit weird
for some reason. A lot of the ads use memes that include like popular children's television characters. Like I saw one ad that was like cookie Monster making a face and it's like that face when you don't know that you could be having a virtual girlfriend, a virtual AI girlfriend who meets all your needs, And I was like, why would Cookie Monster want a virtual Cookie Monster is very clear about what he wants, its cookies. It's not an AI generated ritual girlfriends. I think it's just cookies.
Yeah, No, that's so weird. You know what this is making me think of, too, is like remember all those like which I guess you still have. But there's the whole thing about like the weird Papa bads that'll come up that are like especially for like video games like online heaus, when there's a lot of like video A characters like you know, very sexually provocative kind of things, and it's interesting this is sort of a direction. Damn Yeah,
like memes like children's TV show memes. That's that's that's interesting.
It's exactly that, right, Like oftentimes they have like like like kind of teenager looking young women in like anime style. So I definitely think that for whatever reason, they are gearing it toward younger audiences because of the heavy use of like SpongeBob and cookie Monster and anime girls.
But I don't know, I think, I mean, I hope it's I don't know. I'm willing to say.
I don't think that's totally gartory younger audiences. I think there's unfortunately some probably older adults, adult men for the most part, they're trying to get.
With that kind of stuff too. But yeah, wow, that's that's interesting.
It's it's very it's very interesting. So NBC reported that this is all part of a larger push to mine people who might be interested in AI generated content in general, but also adult content. NBC says the marketing push is part of an AI gold rush and which app developers, most of them based abroad, are mining customers who are
interested in sexual or romantic connections with digital characters. It's part of a larger movement to capitalize on the surge of interest in AI following the popularity of tech startup open AI's chat GPT products, which reset expectations for what AI chatbots are capable of. So these developers are basically like, oh, well, if an AI chatbot can like write your term paper,
or you know, write a legal brief. Maybe it could also be your romantic partner or your sexual partner, and maybe there are people who are interested in that and let's find, let's like early on mine who those people are so we can sell this kind of content to them.
Yeah.
I it's you know, I'm not surprised, Like I feel like this is always sort of going to be like, but there's some I can't remember what it is. There's some like thing that's like everything on the internet, Like there's some porn version of it or whatever. It's like, Yeah, which I like, It's it's not surprising like that that's just sort of been where like humanity and the Internet is gone.
But yeah, huh AI girlfriend.
AI girlfriends And so what's what's also kind of interesting about this is this push has also hurt real human sex workers who were already surveiled and targeted for what they post online. Sex workers are not allowed to make money off of their image. But some tech bro who's creating a similar AI image is that's from Carolina Are, a resource fellow at Northumbria University and the Center Traditional Citizens in the United Kingdom.
Yeah, that seems like the problem because I don't know.
I mean, if you want to have a romantic relationship with like an AI thing or a face, you know, robot, that's fine, whatever you do you I don't care. But like, sex workers are still criminalized for doing the same work.
I mean, I think you're your like apprehension and sort of. I just it just feels not great to think that a human sex worker, sex workers are already marginalized online, is further criminalized and surveilled for posting their likeness on social media platforms. But if some tech bro wanted to make money generate revenue off of something similar, they could and like they might, they might not be surveilled as as closely certainly would not be criminalized for it the
way that sex workers are. And so I think it raises some questions about equity and about you know, the like who was allowed to do what in this new sort of technology facilitated world that we live in.
Yeah, that's so that.
I there's so many concerning things that could come out of this, and I'm sure you're gonna explain more of that.
Yeah.
So one thing to note is that, as you were kind of alluding to before, these AI generated characters are traditionally sexy kind of looking young women, and it's clear that they are targeting men in these ads, which adds to this double standard that we see a lot in technology and on social media, where sexual content that is geared toward heterosexual men is kind of okay on social media platforms. Are says that she believes that this all
reflects a gender biased slant. Social media platforms freely allow sex related ads only if the intended audience is men. Hundreds of ads appear to come close to the crossing the line of what Meta or TikTok would say that they would not allow in advertising. Now. Meta's advertising standards say that ads must not contain adult content, including depictions of people in explicit or suggestive positions or activities that are overtly sexual or sexual sexually provocative. They also say
that ads cannot focus on quote sexual pleasure. But here's where the gender bias aspect comes in. If we've talked about this in another newscast, that report from the Center for Intimacy Justice that found, for instance, that Facebook ads allowing things like biagra are fine, but then Facebook rejects ads related to the sexual health of anybody who is not a CIS gender man. Right, So like the ads for pelvic pain or postpartum issues are are rejected because
Facebook says, oh, well, those relate to sexual pleasure. But then sexual wellness or sexual health ads that are for CIS men are those are something else? Like it's like like who's sexual? Now, whose sexual wellness do you consider? You know about pleasure and thus disallowed, and who's do you consider, Like, oh, well, that's a health or a medical issue. So that's fine.
Yeah, that's that's so messed up.
That makes me so mad, especially, I mean it's it's so obvious. There's so many you know, we could have a whole conversation about like gender bias and like the medical system in general. But it's it's so hard as somebody with somebody with the uterists to get your your problems, to take it seriously, your medical health, your your medical problems taken seriously, particularly when it comes to.
Like sexual health.
Yeah, and and some of it has nothing to do with sex, some of it has it's just you know, the organs that are in your body. There's also this is ironic because I just I keep getting Hulu ads for like male health supplements in particular, and a lot of it has to do with like a rectile dysfunction and stuff. I don't need that because I don't have those parts.
I don't know why.
Hulu thinks that I do, but it's it's it's weird.
I this.
The dots are connecting because I do keep getting these ads, and I'm like, why I this? You should be putting your your advertising money somewhere else, parent, I don't know.
That's soad somebody, somebody is doing some frivolous spending with their ad dollars. But it's interesting because like, like I don't get ads targeted I mean ads targeted to women's and like like non cis men sexual wellness products. So if you're non binary, a lot of a lot of platforms don't allow for anything that's related to like what you might be looking for in terms of sexual almost
or sexual health. Yet it's it's just very clearly clear that somebody has made a decision about whose sexual wellness is like quote valid and whose isn't. And it's very clear that the in the is bucket is cis men, and those are the products that you are allowed to advertise on social media platforms.
Patriarchy is real.
You know, it is real. It is insidious, and also it is wasting. The ads bends.
Every time I got on all the sides, I'm like, I I gotta work in media. I get kind of how this works. I'm like, what what is the point of it if you're collecting all my data where we're not using it correctly? Apparently right, it's so weird.
Meta said, our policies prohibit ads containing adult content that it's overly suggestive or sexually provocative, whether it's AI generated or not. Our policies and enforcement are designed to adapt in this highly adversarial space, and we actively monitor new trends in AI generated content. But they did not answer NBC's questions about, if that is the case, how these ads got through in the first place. Meta only removed
them after NBC reached out for the article. So I guess the question really is, like, why are human sex workers or humans who want to post anything related to sexuality cracked down on and surveiled so strictly when it kind of seems like AI generated content that is sexual is enforced less. So like, I don't know they answer to that question, but it definitely seems like social media platforms might be putting a little more scrutiny on humans than they are when that content it's AI generated.
Yeah, this is such a like extreme version.
Two of the way that like quote unquote like female bodies, women's bodies are so hyper sexualized and so like it's so normalized that there's something to be consumed and something to be like you know, yeah, something to be consumed.
Were like, yeah, again, if it were the opposite, and I'm sure if there were like ads with again quote unquote male bodies not trying to enforce the gender binary here, but like if those were being used, it probably would have been cracked down on way sooner or way more harshly.
But yeah, it's it's it is scary. It is scary to see that. Like AI is kind of one of.
The other ways is it's just kind of like messing with these power structures. Is that it's like like the sex workers that would be you know, benefiting from the labor that they're doing at least to some extent, and it is labor that they're doing, Uh, that can be like pushed aside so easily, and that that can that kind of codification can be recreated in a way that you don't actually have to compensate workers. And it's almost like all of this is stemming from the same problem.
But you know very well put and yeah, I just think there's as you put it so aptly, it's interesting to me how I guess like quote like the female form like like not again not to like reinforce that binary, but like what we understand online is like quote like the female form is only really allowed when it is being consumed when like when like it's not a sex worker posting their image online to get compensated for that, you know, in an exchange of like services for money.
Absolutely not if it's a tech bro who is creating this like fantasy AI chatbop girlfriend or something for other men to consume. It feels like that is in a completely different sphere than when someone has agency over their sexuality. It is using that because they in a way that they want you to compensate from it. Like, it's just very interesting to me what and how much power platforms have in determining that, like what is and is not okay,
what is and is not allowed? What is and is not like quote sexual content, what what sexual content is or is not valid. It's so interesting to me how much power platforms have to shape these things. And I would argue, way too much power.
Yeah, final note, I guess I keep thinking of what I always say.
One of my favorite comedies ex Machina, which is a great movie about you know, the tech bro Cubris. I would say, I'm not gonna spoil the ending, but if you see the ENDGA movie.
It's, oh my god, it's I joke, I almost feel it. Please you haven't, please watch it. I recreate the ending in my household all the time as a joke. Not not really you've seen the movie in what I'm talking about, but like that is a that is an often referenced movie in my home.
I know, I like, and again it is it is one of those movies where it's it's the extremes of this that it is like it is genuinely terrifying. I think to watch and see the extremes this. But again, the ending I think perfectly ties it together. Is a perfect sort of like good for her narrative, as I like to say, And you know, maybe maybe maybe reality will reflect art.
We'll see I.
Oh well, we could only hope complete complete side note complete like left turn no signal. Have you seen the movie Fire Island on Hulu? Yes? Do you remember the part where they're playing the game heads Up? It's like the best scene in the movie, and that he's trying to get the clue for Marisaitome and he's like, uh, Alexandravacander, like Alexandro of the Candor. You don't remember Marisitome, but you remember Alexandra Pacandor she was great and ex Makina.
It's my favorite scene. Anyway, this is like all.
The Rails, great movie, another great movie. Yeah, you know, cultural masterpieces.
Oh that's a good way.
To be here.
Let's take a quick break. That are back. Okay, So, speaking of legislation that can powerfully reshape the Internet, I have a little bit of news on the Kids Online Safety Act front, and that is that this week one hundred parents of trans youth wrote a letter to senators and all organizations who support the Kids Online Safety Act, saying that it would make their kids less safe. The letter is. The whole letter is worth a read, but
here's some a good bit of it. They write, we hold deep sympathy for parents whose kids have been harmed by big tech social media companies and their abusive business practices. Our kids have also been harmed by these companies greed, their addictive design, their intrusive surveillance, their failure to address online hate, bullying, and abuse. But legislation that the Kids Online Safety Act would make our kids less safe, not
more safe. It would grant extraordinary new power to right wing state attorneys general to dictate which content young users can see on social media, cutting our kids off from life saving online resources and community. These are the same attorneys general that are actively working to ban gender performing healthcare that saves kids' lives, criminalizing drag performances, and label families that accept our children as groomers and child abusers.
KOSA would also incentivize big tech platforms to engage in even more intrusive data collection, which disproportionately puts trans kids and their families at risk. And as more and more states strip us of our rights and criminalize our kids' health care, education, and vary existence, the whole letter is definitely worth a read. Like I really applaud these parents for sending this letter and for sticking up for their kids in this way, I will say parents, These parents
are not wrong for being concerned about this. Like it's kind of one of those things where it's like when somebody tells you who they are, believe them. I feel like some of the organizations who are behind this legislation and who are supportive of this legislation have really been pretty I would argue, pretty clear about how they feel about trans folks and how they are planning to use this legislation as a way to further censor lgbtqu content
and label that as a threat to youth. The same thing that we were talking before about how when legislation that is about changing the Internet to protect kids, oftentimes they will label content harmful, but like have a pretty broad definition of what that harm is, just leaving it up to platforms or attorneys general to decide what is harmful.
And so Family Policy Alliance, a conservative group, asked Senator Marsha Blackburn, who is one of the senators who introduced the Kids Online Safety Act, about what she thought were the top issues impacting us today. And here's what she had.
To say, Protecting minor children from the transgender and this culture and that influence. And I would add too that watching what's happening on social media, and I've got the Kids Online Safety Act that I think we're going to end up getting through probably this summer. This would put a duty of care and responsibility on the social media platforms.
And this is where children are being indoctrinated. They're hearing things at school and then they're getting onto YouTube to watch a video, and all of a sudden, this comes to them and they're on Snapchat or they're on Instagram and they click on something and the next thing you know, they're being inundated with it. Parents need to be watched this.
Teachers need to be watching and protecting our children and making certain that they are not exposed to things to say are emotionally not mature enough to handle.
See this vi imediate response is just like rage too. It is like a combination of like this is the.
It's enraging every time every time I.
Hear the transgender I'm like, yeah, what, like I that's so the transgender the singular transgender.
It is Oh my god, I don't.
Even yeah, nothing says that, like you just from the way that she refers to trans folks, it's like pretty It's like pretty clear from like even intonation, Like what what she thinks like how she feels, Like I said, like, it's like, yeah, anybody who watches that clip, I feel like it's clear how Marcia Blackburn feels. I don't. I don't feel like she's making any making it confusing for us to understand what she's what she's trying to say and how she feels.
Right, it's a kain with this legislation.
It's so it makes me so angry and I try to, you know, and this is the thing that I think sucks about this kind of stuff, and sucks about a lot of this stuff that's coming from the right. It's like there's no way to like argue at them that it's like this is wrong. And I think, again, the thing that sucks is the majority of the everyday people that are going to see this and be like, I
support it. It's because they just see the the you know, headline of this is gonna make the Internet safer for kids, and not actually looking at what they're saying. But it is so obvious whenever they open their mouths to speak about this that it is it has nothing to do with keeping kids safe.
You're making it.
You're you're arguably creating a not even arguably, you are creating a less safe environment for kids, because like, yeah, if you're creating an environment where it is it is not safe for kids to come out to their parents and is not save for kids to like express their true identity, that's dangerous.
That is going to lead to kids dying.
It's just it's so infuriating, and at the same time, it's like the hell, like, you're such a fucking idiot.
I Like, I don't know what helse to say. It's it's like, yeah, kind of the transgender injocrination.
Like.
A lot of these people are also again it's like the Christian nationalist right where it's like, no, y'all are the ones that do that shit? You're all are the ones indoctrinating, Like I don't. I've never had somebody try to convince me that I'm trans or queer or whatever.
It's usually the opposite.
Actually, again, it is so mask off. It is so they're not even like they're not hiding. They're not hiding with the intentions of this bill are and that is the frustrating part about all of this.
But yeah, this legislation, I mean, I really like went through an evolution where I was like because I for the longest time was like, oh, we need to do something, like you know, I know how much tech companies harm kids, and like when this legislation was introduced, I was like, oh, maybe they're doing something. And all that took was like sitting like I basically it urged people to like look and see what is actually in the legislation. Like it took me sitting down and like going through it and
being like, wait a minute, this is not good. I don't think this is going to serve its intended purpose. And I can pretty clearly, just like with Sessta Basta, I can pretty clearly see like what this kind of legislation could lead to on top of people like Marcia Blackburn and the Heritage Foundation openly saying what they are planning on using it for which spoiler alert, it's like
cracking down on LGBTQ content. Yeah, And Senator Blackburn after this interview, her legislative director was like, no, the Senator was taken out of context. First of all, I don't know how just being asked a question and then the whole answer unedited from beginning to end is like what you see. I don't know what context was like taken out or like miss you know, misreported. But I'm I'm I'm going like, we're gonna play like you just heard
her entire answer unedited, that was what she said. Her legislative director was like, oh, the senator was discussing two different separate things, I guess quote transgender indoctrination and then the Kids Online Safety Act. I don't buy it. I think that they're trying to backpedal. I think that she said I don't think that she misspoke. Her legislative director said that she was taken out of context and that she was that she misspoke. I don't think either of
those is true. I think that she said exactly what she meant to say. I think that people understood it as she meant it as intended, and then when she was like, oh wait, this actually gives away why we are pushing for this, then tried to back pedal. I think that it's clear. It's like, seems pretty clear to me what she intended to say, and I think it was this. I think I think how we're interpreting it is the way that she meant it.
Yeah, it's you know, it's interesting.
I think I think it's a it's a clear sign of a how unpopular this sort of playtant transphobia is on a national stage. But also like what I like what the strategy is, because I feel like this keeps happening where right wing politicians will say explicitly transphobic, explicitly like horrible shit about the trans community, and then they'll come out or their spokesperson will come out.
And be like, that's not what I met.
I met well of that because it's again it's it's there, like Ben's studies that have shown that like this kind of legislation isn't popular on you know, the like transphobia isn't isn't the dominant ideology of like the US, even though like the right wing wants to paint it as this is just sort of what most people think. But yeah, they so they have to hide behind this like oh I missed it was taken off of context. It's about protecting kids, as you talked about in the episode earlier this week.
It's it's scary.
To see the kind of things that people can get away with under the label of just protecting kids, and.
That is always Again, it's.
Terrible that this has kind of gotten to the point where it is like this, but it's kind of a red flag. Now Never something is labeled as being about protecting kids, look into it because you.
Never know what it's actually going to be.
Everybody can agree that like, yeah, we should protect kids, but yeah, it's what does that actually mean?
I completely agree, and I do think that this legislation and I'm guilty of it too, because it took me a little bit of time to like, actually, I listened to your stuff I've Never Told You episode, which was very informative, Thank you. It took me like sitting down and actually like going through the proposed legislation and like the background to be like, wait a minute, no on this. But I think that they're I think that people are
starting to come around. I think that enough people who care about the Internet, and enough like advocates for No but Internet, and enough like LGBTQ ad gets and folks are speaking up about this legislation. And I also just think that, like, I don't know, this is not a fully fleshed out thought, but I think that people are really becoming tired of the ways that our Internet experience is just becoming worse and worse, and I think this legislation might be a real like crescendo point where people
have kind of had enough. I think that for when this legislation first came out, I didn't see a lot of people talking about it, but I think that recently I've seen more and more people being like, wait, like, really look into this before you advocate for it. I went from seeing organizations that are I guess I would say, kind of aligned with youth online being like, oh we like it to now I'm not really talking about it
so much. And so I'm I'm hopeful that we've reached an inflection point with this where people are like, no, this is actually not what we need and this is just like another way to make our internet yet enough other battleground on which to like demonize and criminalize trans use. And I think, as you said, people are sick of that.
Yeah, and again thank you. I uh go check out that episode on stuff Mom.
I never told you if you're interested in.
Hearing more, but a big shout out, And I said in the episode, big shout out to a lot of these like TikTok creators that I've been covering it because.
That's how I found out about this. I hadn't heard about this.
I didn't really hear people talking about this until I was seeing people on TikTok and still have seeing like a lot of young people on TikTok using their platform to advocate for or to talk about this issue and to talk about this this legislation and how it's going
to be harmful. So yeah, grassroots organizing is important. And again the sides into the whole conversation about social media and the Internet being monitored because TikTok is a platform for that, and TikTok is a platform for a lot of young people in particular to advocate for themselves and for other communities.
And I think we owe it to a lot of these.
Activists on TikTok the fact that this is getting more attention and this is getting more pushback.
Now, absolutely I agree. So thanks to folks who use their platform on TikTok to advocate and educate and speak out. I thank god we have platforms like this to do that. Thank god we have places where folks can use their platforms to talk about legislation in this way that is accessible, that can help educate all of us. So I'm right there with you, completely agree. Okay, So funny update for you on the question of whether an AI generated song can win a Grammy. So, can an AI generated song
win a Grammy? Well, it's complicated. A while back, we told you that the Grammy said that only songs with human songwriters, not ai, were eligible to win a Grammy. We had a whole conversation about how that was. I thought was really good, Like a line on the sand, the Grammys are for humans, not Ai. I was joking about how, like, I don't want to robot tom at the Grammys. I want to see like Gloria Estefa or like Celine Dianic. I don't want to see a robot.
I want to see a human. It's for humans. Well, this week, the head of the Grammys Recording Academy CEO, Harvey Mason Junior kind of indicated that an AI generated song that kind of sounds like the Weekend and Drake called Hard on my Sleeve would be Grammy eligible, And everybody was like, what I thought you said that it had to have a human songwriter in order to be
eligible for a Grammy. Previously, Mason Junior told The New York Times the song was absolutely eligible because it was written by a human Okay, but now he is saying that song is not eligible because even though it's written by a human, this like writer the songwriter on social media. That's like kind of mysterious. It's like not a songwriter that you've heard of. It's like some person on social media.
Even though it might have been written by a human, technically that human did not get legal clearances to use the weekend or Drake's vocal likenesses. So the Grammy is saying that that disqualified the song for winning Song of the Year or Best Rap Song, which are the two categories it was submitted to. Earlier this summer, Mason Junior laid out new rules to whether songs using AI were
Grammy eligible. They said that AI assisted music could be submitted only if humans quote contributed heavily to the song. And I guess all of this is to say that I think it's like pretty clear that these rules it might be a little too subjective. You know, what does heavily contributed mean? It seems like maybe they're kind of building the plane as they fly it a little bit in terms of coming up with these rules and guidelines.
And I know I reference this a lot, but it does sound like the reality is progressing quite a bit faster than the rules are being written that this has changed, you know that. He was like, oh, it's absolutely eligible for a Grammy despite being AI generated to like, no, just kidding, it's not eligible for a Grammy within the span of a couple of weeks.
Yeah, I think you're definitely right, Like it does. It does sort of feel like they're scrambling because they don't know how to respond to this. And yeah, we talked last week, you know, more about like the film industry and how that's kind of been affected by changing industries
and changing economies and all that. But again, with music, it's one of those things where it's it's art is so fundamental to like the human experience, and it is sort of like, you know, part of me like gets very existential about this where it is like we're taking away like oh my god. There was some tweet I don't remember what who said or whatever, There's some tweet I remember seeing that was like, so like can AI be used to like help clean up the ocean or is it only going to be making art and.
Like portray it all that?
Which I was like, yeah, I know, it's like why why are we having AI do this stuff that's like fun and it is like you know, people wanted it is part again, it's such a fundamental part of the human experience.
Part of me is like, you know, the closest.
I can compare this to like previously is with like you know, when it came to like electronic music and like how that was sort of the about when it originally popped up. And that makes me a little bit more like, okay, like I think if we were using a AI a little bit to like as a part of the process.
But yeah, it is. It is that that like the weekend, like the weekend and Drake not.
Giving their permission to use their voice or their likeness or their whatever. That definitely feels like a red flag because it is it is like that that seems to me where it's like that is clearly that okay, and I'm like, but who's to say I I don't. And again, it is one of those things where it's like the Grammys are coming from more like the business industry side, so I'm not gonna put it past them to be like, Yep, it's all fine, this is all great, we love it all, we love it all.
Yeah, I saw this video of the director is it Miyazaki from the from like my neighbor Toturo and Princess, and basically the animators were showing him this character that they had trained using AI and he was like, absolutely not. I think the fuck mat he he shut it down. He was like, the point of art is meant to be human. It's meant to be humans responding to the
human condition. And like he he was so deeply and genuinely offended by what he saw as this like shortcut around the humanity and the humanness of art and expression, and it just really stuck with me. I once thought it would be like funny and cool to to like talk to an AI podcast host version of myself, And when I sat down and started like putting back together, I was like, wait, actually I hate this. I don't want to hear an A. I don't want to hear
like an AI version of me, like like as. I just didn't like like as we've talked about off Mike Joey, like I'm if folks can't tell I'm having an off recording day. The idea of a I is like, well, I can come in and I'll always sound prepared. And eloquent and thoughtful and this and that. I was like, get rid of this AI. I don't like it. It's just like it's just like not how it's supposed to be.
Sometimes like part of human part of art is connecting to our humanity, and sometimes that humanity is has off days or is messy, or is tough, or is this or is that? And I just as you said, I think the fact that business interests are so excited about about AI makes me think that what they want is to cut out the version that that the version of our of creation that is human that it's like has the off day, isn't prepared kme late doesn't it doesn't
have this, doesn't have that. They they it was it's in their best bottom line interests to prioritize versions of creation that like never experience those those things that humans experience. I don't know, I'm going I'm going like way too deep on this. But all of that is to say that I know what you mean.
You're so right though it is like how many and I mean so much, So much of it is like we'll ever know, but think about how many like recordings of songs that we listened to that maybe came out of the musician having an off.
Day, Like I that is part of art. Emotions are part of art.
And having that again very very on, very like manicured version of a person being the only thing that can create art seems like we're just gonna lose a lot of yeah, like lose a lot of the actual art, lose a lot of the good stuff that comes out of you know what I have. It's the oh man, this maybe this is going in a different direction, but that one there's a there's one recording of Fleetwood Max singing.
Silver Springs and are singing to each other.
They're singing it to each other, Oh go angry, Like they look so angry, and it's like it is one of the most beautiful things and it's one of the most beautiful things to listen to.
Like can you imagine if we didn't get that because they were.
Like, Nope, you guys can't stand to be in the same room, so we're just not gonna record.
Like, so much of art comes from that anger.
It comes from those like quote unquote bad emotions like what I yeah, this just.
Joey, you've just said my like my like trigger phrase for like like if we if we were, if this conversation was happening at a cocktail party, I would be cornering your ass all night talking about that one performance.
It's I can study that.
I have like seen it so many times. It's like you can just feel the emotion and the energy.
It's one of the most like beautiful things ever and it comes from and like again, I'm sure it comes from so much bad emotions, so many like quote like negative bad emotions for both of them.
But yeah, I know, I totally agree.
I would.
I would go off about this for hours. That is a beautiful, beautiful song, and uh, you know what, it's just depressing to think that AI can take away that then take away that that humanity that yeah.
I mean. We did an episode about the hologram version of Whitney Houston was doing a residency in Vegas and in the episode, one of the things that it sort of comes up is the implication that you know, Whitney Houston was this like incredibly talented musician, but she was she had a troubled life, and that the implication in like making her a hologram, it's like, oh, well, this is a version of her that we can like have produced perfect live performances forever and ever and ever and
ever and ever, will never be hungover or late or you know, on substances, or be distracted by her romantic life or you know. And it's like, but those were all part of what made her music her music, and so like it's like, I don't I don't like this implication that via technology you can pick the parts that you like, right, Like, if you want to listen to Fleetwood Mac, part of what makes Fleetwood Mac good is the drama off stage. Is like when they bring that
to their performances, that's what makes it electric. Unless you're one of the robots from the movie Ex Machina. Robots are probably not having romantic trauma. I don't think AI is having romantic drama with each other off stage.
Yeah, I again, and I you know, obviously addictions, bad addictions, real, not not to romanticize any of that, but like we're talking before this, I'm wearing a t rextra right now. Like I love a lot of like seventies era like rock, and so much.
Of that is has this terrible, terrible, you know, trauma behind it.
But it is like we got good music out of it and again not to I don't know where I'm going with this, but I know what you might like. It's it's not good. It's that big sense like again, like addictions bad. Certain drug usage is harmful for people. But that's part of the human experience is being messy and making mistakes and messing up. And art comes from those mistakes and comes from messing up and is oftentimes a way to cope with that, which.
Again yeah and again, like.
Part of part of the beauty of music and movies and and literature and all of this is it. It oftentimes is going to reflect things that we're feeling that we don't know how to expla I'm not a musician.
I don't have the talents to.
Express these feelings musically, but like I love listening to like my favorite artists talking about it and talking about experiences that I'm going through. You know, I can go cry to a Phoebe Bridger song and yeah, it's it's.
I don't know, it's just it's it's sad to see sad to see where this is going.
Yeah, yeah, I just we are two people who care quite a bit about art an expression, and I just want to make sure that that even in our you know, tech futures, the beauty and the humanity of that, I want to make sure that is protected and uplifted and preserved. So I guess I hope that that is the way that it is in the.
Future for sure.
More after a quick break, let's get right back into it, Okay, So the last thing I wanted to talk about is a story from my hometown. Susannah Gibson is a nurse practitioner running in her first election cycle as a Democratic candidate in a crucial race for the Virginia General Assembly. She is denouncing reports that she and her husband performed
live in a sexually explicit streaming site. Gibson said that these reports about her online activity were an illegal invasion of her privacy designed to humiliate her and her family. So none of the news outlets who reported on this have independently verified these live streams. I should say, but it looks like Gibson and her husband got on this streaming site called Chatterbait and had sex with each other on this live stream. So this plea that she is
running in is a really crucial race for Virginia. The House of Delegates is one of the only handfuls of competitive races that will determine control of the General Assembly. Republicans hold a slim majority in the House and Democrats narrowly control the state Senate, but both chambers are up
for grabs in November. Her district is right outside of Richmond, Virginia, in Henriiko County, which is actually more or less where I grew up nor my parents and family still live, and her district is one of seven toss up seats across the one hundred member House, according to the Virginia Public Access Project. So this was all first reported by the Washington Post, who said that it learned about the material from a quote Republican operative who denied connection to
Gibson's opponent, David Owen or to other political groups in Virginia. Now, obviously I worked on campaigns before. Oppo research is a thing that happens in campaigns. But to be honest, I'm kind of side eyeing the Post here who published sexual dirt on a woman given to them by her rival political party. You know, even though this person is like, oh, I don't work for her opponent, they do call this person a Republican operative, And I just think it's dirty politics. Like,
I think it's unbecoming of the race. I just don't think it's cool. The Post thought this was like newsworthy or relevant to you know publish. In an article about why they published the claims, the Post wrote, the Post typically does not identify victims of alleged sex crimes to protect their privacy. In this case, Gibson originally live streamed these sexual acts on a site that was not password protected. The couple had more than five thy seven hundred followers there.
Many of the videos remained available to the public on other unrestricted sites as of Saturday. Gibson apparently was not aware of this and had not authorized the posting of this material on other sites. So, to be super super clear, Gibson nor her husband did anything illegal in making these videos. It is not illegal to film yourself having sex. It is not illegal to put it on a live stream site.
The platform that hosted these videos does apparently have a rule against asking for tips for specific sex acts, which apparently Gibson and her husband did. But okay, so the Washington Post is like publishing that this woman may or may not have broken CHET rebates no tipping like no asking for tips rules. It just seems to me like very beneath them to publish this at all, not to
mention it might be a crime. Daniel P. Watkins, a lawyer for Gibson, said that it was unlawful in Virginia to record someone in a state of undress and distribute it to a third party without that person's consent. It's illegal and it's disgusting to disseminate this kind of material, and we're working closely with the FBI and local prosecutors
to bring those wrongdoers to justice. Her attorney said, I have to give major shoutouts to Gibson because she is saying that like this is not going to derail her campaign. She said, it won't intimidate me and it won't silence me. My political opponents and the Republican allies have proven they're willing to commit a sex crime to attack me and my family because there's no line. They won't crow to
silence women when they speak up. And I'm also glad to see that people in the like Big Deed democratic institution are sticking up for her. Susannah originally ran for office because of the overturning of Roe, and she's been very outspoken on standing up for reproductive rights. People are coming out at support of Susannah because they know that Republicans are coming after her because she was standing up for them. This is from a spokesperson named Lauren Chew.
Yeah, good for good for her, for I again like standing up for herself, and you know, it seems like I again, obviously it's a terrible situation, but I'm glad that people are standing behind her too, because it does seem like something where you know, this makes me think of like I feel like there definitely has been a shift in like the last couple of years about how we talk about like these leaks of you know, I like, when I grew up, it was always like the like
celebrities nudes getting leaked or like their sex tape, like the Kim Kardashian sex tape and all that, like it's.
It's which I feel like was old. There was for a while.
It was very it was used to use to attack women and used to attack and many times when it was like it's consensual, it's not your business what they're doing in their sex life as long as it's consensual, like adults and all of that, and I'm glad, like, and I don't know how much of this is like part of a bigger push, but it does seem like there is kind of a shift where yeah, I'm like good for her for being like, I didn't do anything illegal.
I didn't. In fact, what they did is illegal. You know.
I think it is like, again, this is this is a bigger scale version of this. But it's like when we talk about like revenge porn and like that kind of thing, where where I think it is good to see that there's kind of this shift about now like.
Hey, whatever, people adults have sex. Sometimes, it's a thing that happens. We all are aware of that. You know, that's not the problem.
The problem is the fact that people are going to like use that weaponize that. And we live in a you know world where we have the internet and and yeah, like the things happen people whatever, people do things to their personal business. I'm glad there is kind of the shift where it is sort of like yeah, and again it is this is illegal what the Republicans were doing in this case, and it's terrifying. We were talking about like, you know, double standards of men and women when it comes to sex.
Also like at the top of this, like if you just think.
Historically, like we know so much about like the Kennedy's sex lives and all that, and that's like a joke, like it's like almost celebrated, like it's almost sort of like, hah, it's this cool thing about JFK. He slept around a lot, and I don't know, like it's like like it is.
That double standard where it is like why is that like a thing that it's like that's cool, that's and then like in this situation, you know, I'm sure if JFK were around now, he would be making a sex tape.
I got a cut at the very at the very least my.
Controversial presidential But yeah, it is. It is so that is and again.
Good for her.
This is terrifying. This is a that is a terrible situation to be in. But good for her for your standing up for herself and that's it's messed up, and yeah, good for her.
I hope this doesn't affect her campaign because yeah.
Yeah, I think you're right. I think Slash hope that we've reached a new era of this kind of thing where I am happy that she's not just like quote resigning in disgrace because she didn't do anything disgraceful. I'm happy that she's not letting this define her campaign. And I also think, like, what does any of this have to do with the issues, right, Like she like she says that she was motivated to run for office because of threats to reproductive health, So it's like that's a
big issue. I don't know, it just it just it just feels like beneath everybody. I think. I think I think it's beneath People might disagree, but I don't think it's fitting to publish these kinds of you know, Like I just I don't think. I don't like, how is it going to help Virginians? You know, how is this going? How does this going to move policy forward? I just I don't think it's like worthy of making it this
big of a thing about her campaign. I will say, like to your point about the Kennedys, I think that Donald Trump definitely set a new standard for like what is expected and how public officials are like meant to behave. Like, let's not forget in a civil trial, a jury found that Trump sexually abused Egene Carroll, So like an actual sex crime, right, Like.
We have convicted.
Yeah, like yeah, sex criminals that are that were the president of the United States, and exactly why, like and I'm sure these are again, I'm sure a lot like the Republicans that were behind this, probably at least some of them support Trump. You know, who's who knows. Maybe they're anti Trump Republicans, who's to say, but they probably do. And it's yeah, yeah, and I get what you said, like,
shame on the Washington Post for publishing this. I get this as part of a like it is part of like political campaigns, but also that that feels like that's crossing a line.
I don't know what the line is, but that just seems so clearly wrong.
And especially yeah, when it is like if you, if you as a journalist, if I sat and thought about this for two minutes, it's like you're aiding criminals.
Now who are.
Spreading this video without this woman's consent rather and and sort of framing it in a way that makes her seem like she's doing something wrong when she didn't break a law, like she didn't. Yeah, again, it seems like she what she did was consensual, it was maybe. Yeah, the tipping thing is the one thing that like seriously, like yeah, that's that's yeah.
Like oh, she might have broken their like chatterer baits rule like Pike policies, like oh no, oh man, yeah, And I don't know, like I I remember when. So back in twenty ten, this woman, Crystal Ball was running in Virginia in the Virginia's first congressional district, and these images of her, they were the like tamest images you ever saw in your life. Basically, she went to a Christmas party with her then husband, and I guess the theme might have been like naughty Christmas, and so she's
like fully closed. That's like her. It's like clearly like her and her friends having fun. In one of the pictures, I think she's wearing like a sex toy on her nose, but like they're there. If anything, the pictures are silly. It's like, oh, she went out and had like a silly night of clothed adult fun for like a theme party, and those pictures like I think she had to drop
out of the race. And so I'm happy to see that the times have changed a little bit that she that like Gibson, is not just like dropping out, that she's like standing her like standing firm and the fact that this, you know, she didn't do anything wrong and she's not going to be intimidated by this, I will say, like having like I like I grew up in uh this area. I grew up in Chesterfield County, which is just one county UA from Minnerichel County, but like it's
basically the same town. I I hate to say this, I firmly believe that she didn't do anything wrong. She's not going to be ashamed of all of that. I just think the area is such that gender based double standards when it comes to sexuality, I think is a real thing, and I think that for women especially there. I think that women in Virginia are just held to
a completely unrealistic standard that like nobody could meet. And so even if if you're not you know, be on a live stream or whatever, it would be something there would find something to be like, oh this you're not you're not a proper woman quote unquote because of this or that, Like where when I was growing up, there definitely was the idea that women's behavior was meant to be scrutinized in a way that like it's just like the unique for women running for office and women in
the public eye, and so I worry that Gibson like this might give folks in Virginia pause. It shouldn't, and I hope it doesn't, because it's nothing but just growing up in this part of Virginia specifically. I just remember what it was like and how much of life was ruled by these completely regressive binaries and like social norms and rules, like how much of that dictated life there. I don't know if it's still like that. I haven't lived there for many, many years. But I hope that
Gibson and does not jump out of the race. I hope that this does not impact Gibson's race, because I don't think it should. I hope that we are in a different place where hey, we're all adults, people have sex. However you want to get down, is however you want to get down, if it's consensual, if y'all are adults, do your thing. I hope that the only people that I'm like really side eyeing here are the Post and whoever that like fucking hating ass Republican operatives, who is like, hey, Post,
you should publish this. So, yeah, Gibson, you have you. I am I am with you. I think that it's really cool that she is. I don't know. I hope, I gues this will be a test to see if, like if we really are in a different place, and I hope that we are.
Yeah, yeah, I hope so too.
Well, that is all I have. I said, this was a tough one for me. I am, I am. I'm sorry, Joey, I'm sorry, listeners, I'm in a weird headspace. Don't mind me. I'm mercury is in retrograde.
I think it's ending tomorrow.
We'll all hang in there together until tomorrow. By the time you hear this, it will be over. Uh wawa. Thank you so much for doing the news with me, and I'll talk to you all later. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tegoty dot com slash store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi, You can reach us at Hello at tegodi dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No Girls on the
Internet was created by me bridget Tood. It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative edited by Joey pat Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almada is our contributing producer. I'm your host, bridget Toad. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts