There Are No Girls on the Internet x Stuff Mom Never Told You

actually designed by a woman. On the Stuff Mom Never Told You Podcast, where I'm a tech correspondent, we did an episode for Women's History Month that was really fun because I got to talk about Susan Care, an influential Apple designer and one of my favorite women in tech, and I had such a good time that I wanted to share it with all of you. Listen to me alongside Stuff Mom Never Told You co hosts Annie and Sam for a deep dive into the lasting legacy of

Susan Care, the artist behind Apple. Hey, this is Annie and welcome to Stephane Never Told You production of I Heart Radio. Today, We're so thrilled to be joining the virtual studio space by our friend and colleague Bridget Todd. Hello, Bridget Hello, I'm so excited to be back here with you all. Say we missed you. Welcome back. Thank you. Thank you. I missed you too. As always, we know we know you're constantly going well. I can always make

room for my two favorite ladies. Yes, we were discussing before this. We're very excited for this topic, particularly because we have different levels of experience when it comes to computers and technology, and in this case, Samantha, you're saying you don't know mac very well. No, I am so not in the loop. I've never used the Mac. I don't have an iPhone. I'm so far away from those products.

And I'm a little scared of it because every time I've been on Friends, I literally look at it and touch a button, something goes around and I hand it right back. I'm like, I'm sorry. You're like I launched a missile. I don't know what. I'm sorry. I'm pretty sure I just started to war somewhere. I'm so sorry too, because my phone is a swipe And one time my friend handed me her her phone and it was like, can you texas message? And it was not a swipe and I stared at it, like, this makes no sense

to me. I cannot figure this. Yeah, when its like technology, when you're used to one way and then you try to figure out something else. I feel like it's a trap. It's so true, it's so true. So I use an iPhone. Most of my friends do not use iPhones that use like Google pixels. When I am handed at Google Pixel, it does not matter how many times I have been schooled and how to do the most the most basic stuff. I'm not talking about anything advanced. I have to ask that, wait,

is it this? Is it that? Every time? Whatever? Right, which actually relates really well to what we're we're talking about today. So who did you bring for us to discuss bridget So today we're discussing Susan Care. I'm so excited to talk about her, mostly because so it's Women's History months, and so I think it's a good time to honor women who, you know, maybe don't always get a lot of the loud public support. And also the fact that Susan Care, despite being very much part of

tech history, she's still alive. She's still with us. I'm a big believer in giving people their flowers while they're still alive to smell them, and so not waiting until someone is no longer here to be like, oh, I loved their work. I loved their work but celebrating their achievements and their legacy while they're still here. She's very much still in tech, making tech history as we speak.

And I also just feel like sometimes I come on the show and I bring topics that are a little negative, because let's face it, sometimes being a woman on the Internet is not that fun. But there's also lots of fun, joyous, cool, quirky aspects of it as well. So I'm super excited

to talk about Susan Care. Yes, and I never heard about her story, and I loved it so much because, um, I know we've talked before on the show a lot about women in technology space and now there is often that these negative aspects to it are being intimidated off of it in various ways. And as somebody who's really creative, like where my cosplay closet as I call it in here, but like I love the application of how she got into technology. I think it is such a great story. Yes, yes,

so let's get into it. I mean, so, if you've ever spent any time around not just Max but computers in general, you've probably encountered Susan Care's work for her legacy.

So first and foremost, I should say if you have not seen a picture of her, there's an iconic picture of her with this like awesome eighties blown out curly hair and a sweatshirt and these like amazing new balanced sneakers, with her sneakers kicked up on her desk at her old school you he y'all please google a picture of her because it is iconic and truly just this one picture. I saw it on the subreddit old school Cool. I was like, who is this woman? I have to look

her up and find out everything about her. She is amazing. Yes, it's so effortlessly cool in a way that I will never achieve. Like. I saw it and I was like, wow, I mean like, I'm looking at it right now. I have to google it, and I'm like, this is kind of what people want to look like today. I saw the outdated computers in the background, which, by the way, I use those in elementary school, so don't start with me.

B like she, I'm like, no, you are. She is exactly what people are like, Oh, we want to look like this. This is such a great throwback, and she looks so comfortable, so relaxed and ridiculously cool. I want to be this cool. Yes, she is like an advertisement forever Lane, like I feel like the norm core like vibes of like oh baggy, baggy sweatshirt and like like relaxed fit. Geez, she's brocting it. Honestly, you could wear the wellfit that she's wearing, a nineteen eighty whatever this

photo was taken. You could work today and people would be like, Oh, cool outfit, That's what I'm saying, Like, this outfit looks so comfortable. But again, yeah, she looks so freaking stylish, and I'm like, I don't want to be back here in this fashion because I did wear that once upon a time, and that was when it was supposed to be cool, when I was a young baby.

So I love that. So Susan Care she designed a huge part of the digital infrastructure of using a Mac computer back in the eighties, and so I'm talking all of the font all of the typography, and all of the little icons. And so if you ever remember the little happy Mac when you booted up a computer, like the little computer with a smiley face, that was seems in Care the concept of the icons for your computer sort of matching up with the thing that you were going to do. Even if you don't use a Mac,

even if you use a PC. That's still a concept that we use today. So she really was an early architect of how being online sort of looked and felt, and then also just sort of the concept that sort of how we conceptually move around and we're using a computer. And it's funny because I had also never heard of her. I've been using a Mac for most of my life.

It was like the first computer that we had in our home when I was a kid, like in what my parents called the computer room, where like you could you could never bring a snack or a drink or my my dad would kill you was a Mac. And I had never even heard of her, even though she had shaped such a big part of my online experiences

both as a child and today. So I really excited to be, you know, giving her a little bit of shine because that's that's so iconic that she, you know, was that architect of that the whole story that I had about this like this happy Mac and the one reason I kind of know what that is now I've seen the other things. I've seen the watch well icon before. I feel like a lot of these are associated to me as something bad is about to happen because I

did something wrong. Signs usually because the one episode that I remember with Insect in the City, Yeah, we're gonna go. You're don't talking about where her Mac crashes and she gets a sad Mac and the dude keeps telling her you got the sad Mac. Sorry, you can't fix it, and this whole conversation about the sad Mac, and I'm like, why does it have to be a sad mag? And then the dead Man because I've got the ex is

all that I said about how angry it looks. I was like, yeah, that does not make me want to get a mac. Yeah if I feel like that episode probably scared a lot of people. Also, fun fact, that is how deep my Sex in the City knowledge goes the guy who tells her about at the computer store Ausu Mandy from The Daily Show. Yes, yes, yes, so I Oh, he's a comedian. I love it when they bring in comedians that you really know but you always know their face. Love it, love it, and you gotta

hop on board. This is what you're missing out when you haven't seen Sex in the City and he's never seen it. She seen like two episodes. I've seen one of the first episode, and that's it, really, girl, what are you putting on in the background while you're doing something else? Like, what are you putting on in the background when you're doing the dishes? Come on, I'm ready, I want to I want to embark on this journey.

I'm just a little nervous, but so Bridget when we have our Sex in the City, we're gonna do a watch and like kind of live watching, live viewing party.

You want join us, yes, of course, you know, And they're getting ready to make another view of that movie, which I mean, I have a love hate relationship with Sex in the City and that you look back and you're like, well this was problematic or like well this is not good, but there's just something about it where I'm like, I know, I'll probably watch it, Like I know they're they're they're like, you'll take this like problematic movie with like a bunch of lazy puns, like just

taking it like I know what I want. But I mean, like Sarah Jessica Parker's character Carrie that Mac at the very beginning, like at all other things, like the fact that she carries it around like is her treasure, Like she carries it as just like she and the Mac go hand in hand. The show her work. I feel

it's grounded around the man act. Like you kept watching the episode towards the end when she moved to Paris, she leaves her Mac in her apartment to like Charlotte goes to her apartment and she's like her computer was just sitting there, Like it's like such a big deal. And it's actually funny that you say this, because when I was thinking through this episode, I didn't think about this.

But now I'm like, oh my god, how many different times have Max been, Like I'm thinking of legally blonde when Elwood's goes to get her like orange Mac and all of her like stuffy law students are on their black laptops and she's on the orange Mac. I guess I had never really thought about how many times Max have been sort of part of popular culture. Lends it

kind of goes into like being a designer piece. Almost. Yeah, I think I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you don't have to get permission to show Mac, Like normally you have to get the companies and pay, but they wanted people to think like, oh, this is a cool style of she ubiquitous technology. I think the only time you have to check is if it's something like real, real bad, real bad. Yeah, you're like beating Amanda death.

But it's the only sid But I mean, like I remember, as I'm looking at some of these things, I remember seeing the little bomb icon as a part of the show as well. And again, like I said, that to me, is like a big warning sign. I mean, yeah, I don't know what the bomb means, but the bomb means something bad. Yeah, the bomb, you see the bomb designed by Susan Care. Hopefully you never have to see it, but if you, if you put in a command that doesn't work and it's like oh no, good bad, you know.

And also I mean even the even the different icons that you're describing the sad Mac, the bomb. One of the things that that Susan Care really um architected was this idea of the interface being super user friendly. So when you do something that is bad, it is very obvious that it is bad. It is a bomb, it is a sad face, like it could not be more clear that you have done something incorrect. Or when something is good, you know, when you would boot up a Mac,

you would see a smiley face. All of that was intentionally designed by care to make people who you know, might have been using a computer for the first time, who might have been a little bit skinnish about using a computer. Helped them sort of shepherd them through the experience in ways that are like super easy to understand, which I really appreciate as someone who, even as someone who enjoys tech, has to be a little bit like tech challenged, shall we say, right as I am, it

definitely tells me what I'm doing something wrong. Definitely, I'm like, oh, I'm just waiting, great and look at that happy face exactly, yes, And those are things you take for granted, right, Like somebody had to think through that process and design those things, especially when computers were so new and people were like, what is this huge, bohemous thing that's expensive? I don't want to wreck it by pressing the wrong button exactly,

And I mean, what's funny is it? Like some people who are a bit young might be thinking, oh, what's the big deal, but truly, like keep in mind that back then in the early days of personal computers, like most people did not have a personal computer in their home at that point, and so computers were these big, clunky boxing nightmares that were really inclined toward mathematicians or engineers,

not just like your regular user. And so somebody had to take the time to design ways of like illustrating what you were doing in ways that would be simple and user friendly and not scary, not intimidating, because if you know, if the whole idea is that you want people to feel the freedom of having a personal computer like in their house, it has to feel like something they can really matter for themselves. And so Susan Kare's design I think was a big part of why personal

computing later took on took off. Her hustory is pretty interesting. Why don't you tell us how she even Scott started into this industry. So this is my favorite thing. So her background was in art, right, So she was a sculptor, she worked in visual arts, and so she is not someone who has hard technical skill. She described herself as

completely non technical. And the reason that she first got involved in graphic design in the first places because her mom taught her these these skills that we guess commonly associate with femininity, so like needle point and embroidery, which luckily those two skills work in small grids. So if you've ever done needle point, you know you're moving a thread through like a tiny box. And so when she was designing things on a computer for Apple, it also

was a small box. And so if it wasn't for her mom teaching her these highly kind of like domestic tasks, we might not like personal computing might be might have gone a completely different direction. And so I just love that because it's such a good reminder that you don't have to be a coder. You don't have to be a hacker to make an impression in tech or to

have ownership over it. And so I always like to remember that that if it wasn't for her mom teaching her how to sew and do needle point, truly, I might not be recording this podcast on my maclepro right now.

Things might look different. When you're thinking about people you do associate with, particularly mac but like technology and computers in general is often men, and you do often have this assumption that, oh, there must be like really technically minded and gotten a lot of education in those fields, and like the names we remember are them. But this is a huge part. What Susan care did is a huge part of how the technology we use in particularly

with Max, but in other things. Um, and it is what you like, a non traditional route and this sort of feminized skill set and this kind of traditionally masculized or seen as a very masculine field. And I just love it. I love it so much. Yeah, it makes me. It's it's a good reminder for all of us. You know.

I did an interview on my own podcast with this really amazing historian and technologist Claire Evans, and she has this book all about like the history of women in computing, and I guess the thesis would be, you know that we are often told that technology is a boys club and that women and other marginalized people are trying to like break break their way in, but actually women have been at the start of computing since the beginning, and so is like rightfully our domain. We are not trying

to break in anywhere, like it is our landscape. And that some of the reasons why women kind of get pushed out of tech, both you know, in terms of like careers, but also just in terms of like who gets remembered, who doesn't, who goes over looks. First of all, just to be clear, a lot of it is just good old fashioned sexism, like nothing, nothing special about that.

But then another aspect of it is exactly what you were saying, is that a lot of times the contributions that women have made to computers and technology are things that are a little bit harder to preserve. And so you know, if you if you make an actual computer that can go and a museum, that's that's a solid

tangible thing. If you design a concept or you know, do something cool on a message board or develop an icon or you know something graphic that is that is less tangible, those things are harder to preserve and sort

of more ephemeral. And so a lot of that work throughout the years has been associated with women and and feminization, this idea that like women are a lot of the times the ones who are building the things that are a little more difficult to hold onto, and thus these contributions can really go overlooked and less we make intentional efforts to preserve them, to highlight them, to amplify them.

All of that. So completely agree, completely agree. Yes, I mean here we are talking about it, and because I'll take every opportunity to bring it up, I do think too if you look at something like fan fiction. The website AO three was one of the biggest coding projects of its time, and it was women did it. But it doesn't get a lot of respect because if women in marginalized people who did it, and it seem as this kind of weird corner of women fandom and not

therefore not worth the respect as something else more masculine. Right, technology is nothing without people using it for something, right, without users and so and those people who were who are building that there were architects of something important and and like that, we would not even see that as worthy of preservation or like mentioning is a real crime.

And I think we really do have to go back and look at history and say, well, where are the times where because this was associated with women or marginalized people just doing something geeky on the internet, you know how women are, whether it's fan fiction or you know, recipe blogs or anything like that. Why do those things not deserve to be remembered in the same way that some of the other more obvious contributions to computing and

technology in our digital landscape. Like, I completely agree that we need to have a whole scale sort of of rethinking of what what is worthy of preservation because I'm not down to just live in a world where the stuff that we make that marginalized people, that women make, it's just not worthy of preservation. No way. Yeah, absolutely not. Thank you for letting me bring up fan fiction all

the time. I aren't gonna help myself. But I also think it's a good like correlation to Susan Care's story, where there is this sort of like creative, non technical thing that she was involved with, and she was able to translate that into technology because there was this need and I think also like again having to kind of predict what people's concerns would be and like predict what would soothe those concerns and be clear, like coming perhaps

coming from a different background actually helped her with that. I think so I love that point. I think so so. She said that when she first got the call to design things for Apple, she was just like, I don't know what any of this is. I love this little detail. She was in the middle of working on a life size sculpture of a hog when she got which if that doesn't, if that doesn't tell you all you know about hair, I feel like that really, Oh I wanted to yes, that's a good question. I want to know.

I want to see this picture of what she was working on. Did she get to finish it? I needed please? Elbow deep in hog right, she gets this call from Andy Hurtzfield, she had gone to high school with and he was a member of the original Apple McIntosh development team during the eighties, and he asked her to hand draw some icons and bonds to help inspire what was going to be this like Mac inter days, this was a completely new concept to her. She's like, I had

no idea what I was doing. But luckily Andy had an idea because he knew that she worked with design and graphics. He told her to go out and by the smallest, tiniest graph paper that she could find, and then use it to block out thirty two squares and filled them with color to kind of come up with the designs because what she would be designing would be

a matrix that was essentially a grid. So again back to that sort of needle point embroidery um upbringing that she had which really helped her work in this grid function. Like truly probably couldnot have provided a better basis or education for the work that she would go on to be doing that. She had no idea, you know, that she would be so foundational in and luckily these skills

really came to rescue. She says. Bit map graphics are like mosaics and needle point and other pseudo digital art forms, all of which I had practiced before going to Apple. This is what she told somebody to an interview in two thousand. So again like you never know what skill is going to apply later in your life. Like I'm sure when her mom was teaching her needle point, she

probably was like, this is really fun and awesome. She probably was not thinking and I will go on to revolution guys personal computing because you have taught me how to do needle point. Mom. Yeah, so I run a Dungeons and Dragons campaign and I use Python coding to h run it. So basically Python is a bunch of

if then statements. But I think you can you can take like a really creative, non technical thing and you can construct it in a way where you can like make it work in that sense, because if you think about like conversation if X then y, like you can I don't know, there's something I find really interesting that you can take those things and you can experiment with them in that way. You could take needle point and think about it in this way of like coding, like

I I love that stuff. Are there other things that you have learned that you feel might help you when you're doing when you're coding and Python, like other other skills that you're like, oh, I wouldn't have thought that this would be, um, some thing that would help me think about Python, but actually has been helpful. So something that helps me like use Python more or just in general in in the work that you do when you're building out these things. The reason I started doing that

is because essentially it's almost exactly like this. You have to when you're running a game. You have to predict what people are going to do, and that could be anything, right, Like that could be literally anything, and so you it's like project management where you have to analyze a person and then try to make that work in a game system, right like in a kind of technical rule based games.

So you've got this like really illogical, chaotic person. Now I've got to make that work in a way where I can say, like if X, then Y so the game doesn't break. So I would say, like reading people and project management because again a lot of interaction and in life it's almost cold to think of it this way, but you can see in a like technical sense of like person why needs this? Therefore these actions happen, like you can map out to a certain extent people and

their behavior. That's so fascinating. It's a whole theorem. You have to do all these little like hypothesis of this may happen. So you have two problem solve ahead of time, which I know nothing about dungeons and dragons. Just what she tells me. It's wild. I mean it completely, it's and I think if you take that to its logical next step like in tech workplaces and stuff. This is why I always say, if you're someone who's listening and you're like, I want to be more involved than tech.

I want to work in a tech space. You do not have to have tech card skills to be someone who makes your living or takes off a big footprint in tech. People need to have people reading skills, problem

solving skills, critical thinking skills. Those are not you know, necessarily what we think of as like tech hard skills, but these are all things that go into you know, working like being able to think in this way, and so I just love this example because I think it really does illustrate how all of these different skills that aren't necessarily the the hard skill or knowing Python or knowing you know, knowing the code, they will help you when you're when you're doing these kinds of things. It's

like a whole way of thinking. I love that example. I mean, there's definitely a whole correlation between art, music, and math, and we know that that's been proven to be linkage, and which is why would people talk about losing arts and losing music is really detrimental for a lot of kids learnings and just overall development. And this is one of those more things because not only what she's doing art, but she's an amazing at which I saw some of the pieces that she's selling now I'm like, wow,

it's gorgeous. But that that it translated into yeah, these little squares and dots in which also equals numbers and such. This is me knowing all this stuff obviously, but the fact that it's a greater picture of how it's all correlated and it is linked, oh absolutely, And I mean that's why I obviously am such a big advocate for young people going into stem and steam fields and get and getting that kind of education. But I also think you're exactly right that you have to have a well

rounded approach. And so if we lose the art, if we lose music and the funding for these things, when people are like, oh, well just learn to code and get a job like that, it'll be so much harder if these students are not well rounded students who do not have a well rounded art education. And so you know, I am an English major, right like, I did not

have a hard skills background. So many people who made it a big splash in tech had arts degrees, humanities degrees, you know, studied music, studied literature, and so I definitely am a big advocate for a well rounded approach. I am not someone who was like, oh, just learn to code, that will solve all your problems, because we do need all kinds of skills to have, you know, young people who are really equipped to go into these fields. Yeah. Absolutely.

And one of the things in this story, and Susan Carey's story is one of my favorite kind of random I guess it's a good tell of when you grew up in terms of technology, when you're talking about your legacy because if you examine some of these symbols, like my ex boyfriend used to argue so hard, like we need to redefine what these means, because they don't mean the same thing anymore. Right, one is the icon for saving if you could talk about that, Oh, it's such

a good one. So Susan Care came up with that concept of the icon being an association or an illustration of the thing that you were doing. So like the paint bucket being used to philo surface with color, or like this isn't as being used to be the cut function. So when you think about the save function, right, So if you are a contemporary of me, and I think Annie and Samantha, I think you got you all as well. When you were saving something, you had to save it

on a floppy disk. You to put a floppy disk that square with the metal thing on it into your computer and only that you had to may annually hit save every I don't know, twenty minutes, otherwise it wouldn't save. Now here you're probably working on Google Docs or some other kind of interface. It saves automatically. You don't have to put any kind of external thing into your computer

for to save. This the concept is so different, yet the little disc it's still the image for save, and so I almost wonder, like, I don't know that young people know what that. I like, they're probably not as innately familiar with like the floppy disc as they are, Yet that is still the icon for save, even though you don't even really have to say about the used to right. It's funny how it's endured. Oh my god,

you just reminded me. We did a time capsule I think in my eighth grade, sixth grade year, and I think I put in a thing of floppy disk, like blank. God. I have a lot of floppy disk memories. I remember, Oh my god, if he's listening to this, he's gonna

kill me. My older brother he had to do a UM class project and at the time we were fighting and I never he had it on a floppy desk that he left on the computer, and I swapped it out with a blank one, so like I put his put his in my backpack and put a blank one on on the computer. So when he got to school he was like, wait, where's my project? That's me. That was real, Betty. It was very fatty it was very fatty.

He's listening to this. I apologize, but you know you're deserved it, but you like, yeah, but yeah, no, I just remember that because I knew that it would be outdated by that point. You were right, you were you were like prophetic here right, I'm trying. It costs a lot of money, so I can't believe I did that. Oh they used to be hella expensive. That was like thirty dollars. Yeah, I'm kind of like, why maybe I

put one. I just remember putting something to do with the floppy does like, I'm gonna put this in here, guys, It's gonna make it dumb. I love it. It's like one of those things, you know how. I think some comedian has this this line and is stand up where when you're driving and you want someone to roll down their window. Even though most cars no longer have the crank, that's still emotion that you do to tell someone, even though you're like, well the cars haven't really had this

for a while, why am I doing this? That's still the enduring motion that you do, but it keeps it. Yeah, that's the things like she created this in the eighties and it's still iconic. And it's still used today. And even though I may not have known what a MAC was, it was definitely universally used well. And that's funny to think about to you, because there's some technologies like the floppy disk that did just go by the wayside. And

that's one of my favorite things. Back to the future too, when they thought the fax machine was going to be the thing. Um but like the you have a story in here about like the copy machine, right, So she was initially going to have the copy function be a little illustration of a copy machine that you would drag and drop your file that you wanted to be duplic aided onto the copier. But copy machines are like kind of complicated and like difficult to render at that size,

and so that didn't work. And then she got this idea to try an illustration of a cat in a mirror, which I feel like that really tells me a lot about how she was thinking about these illustrations, Like that's a really like using a cat looking into a mirror as a way to illustrate the copy functionality. I don't know, I just want that to be a very interesting manifestation of what the copy function does. You know what I mean, because it started with the sea, but I approved that.

I want that now. I know. I wish that was the case. That's the direction we've gone. And I can just imagine, I mean, that would be iconic if that is what it was like today. That'd beyond shirts. The cat, the cat just staring into the mirror. Yeah, the copy cat. I think I don't get it. Yeah, yeah, I love it.

I'm so good. That is a creative mind, like perhaps not the most intuitive like that, Like I think that what she ended up going with was like much better, but it's like I can sort of see her her logic. I guess in what she was going for with the with the copycat in the mirror. It's so good. I'm good with it. I would have approved it immediately. So at the top, he said that cares still alive today.

What's she what's she up to? So that's my favorite thing about this story is that I feel so often when we're talking about somebody who had a great impact, we're talking about them after they have, you know, aged out of whatever they're doing, where they've passed away. Not care Carr is still very much alive and very much involved in tech. So today she works at Pinterest, where you are probably familiar if you use Pinterest with some

of her current designs. She designed the image on Pinterest that is modeled after the pushpin that symbolizes pinning an item. So again that kind of idea of having the icon be kind of a visualization of what the user is supposed to be doing and the spinning button that appears on Pinterest when you refreshed. So very much still a person involved in imagining what tech looks like today, the tech that we use all the time. If you use Pinterest, she's in your Her designs are in your pocket, you

know which I just I just love. You can also find her notebooks today. They're part of the permanent collections at the New York and San Francisco Modern Art Museum, which the one in New York is my favorite art museum on the planet. It's so cool. Cannot wait to get back there when COVID is over. And one was included in the recent London Design Museum exhibit called California

Designing Freedom. So yeah, she still is this, you know, representing this past and present and perhaps future of does I and when it comes to tech, you know, still out there, still shaping how we conceptualize the tech that we use every day. I love that so much, and I just realized that. I guess if you look at movies or TV show, that's another application where it's not

necessarily a real world application. But if you were a designer and you're designing, like something sci fi, what will this look like in the future, what does this like technology or button or whatever represent, and then being able to communicate that two audiences. So yeah, there's a lot

of applications here. Definitely. Did you say, Samantha she has art you can still get Oh, yes, she uh had a collection where some of the and I don't know, Samantha, I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but if you go to tear prints dot com, you can find her limited edition prints and they include like the like little logos and things that she designed. You can get like the sad mac on a poster or

the time bomb on a T shirt. Right, Like some of herself is really nice, Like I really wouldn't mind one of these blankets that had all these different icons on it that she designed. And what's funny is that when you go to caraprince dot com. They talk about how she was one of the original originators of what we think of today is you know, emojis, and so I hadn't even really thought about that that her design says why And I'm emoji obsessed. If you ever text

me get ready to get a million emojis? But yeah, just how how fundamental that is in terms of how we think of, you know, representing things online. Yes, and that's another great example of what we were talking about earlier, where emojis filled a gap that was missing, right, and we had to like kind of envision what are these emotions? What is this trying to convey? And like that is another example of something that's kind of artistic but being

in this very kind of technical world. Right. Also, Annie, I don't know this is what I read earlier, And how something that is related to your superpower, one of your useless superpowers, which is including fonts or face you can't recognize. I wasn't when I was calling you out, um, which I'm like, I don't know you could be lying to me and just randomly naming a font and I'm just believing you. But yeah, because like Chicago was one of them. I know that was one of her first

typeace is what it called. And then the emojis, which was cairo, so that how do you say that c A? I r oh, but that's the blanket, right, So she went even further into the world of computer stuff. I'm so of fish oil. But the fact that she actually created typeface I actually created like fonts is an interesting thing because I've always wondered who does this? And also, Annie, why do you know these? Could you recognize what Chicago looks like? Chicago twelve for the For the listeners who

don't know this, I have a very useless superpower. It's not as good anymore because I used to edit video all the time, and I actually would because a font does convey an emotion, al right, it does help shape whatever. Everybody loves comic sands, right, that's what everybody loves. And so I can recognize the font like it is one of my most annoying. You get a little alcohol on me and I'll be like, there's Nancy's chalkboard, Like I apologize that anyone I've ever done that too. Do you

have a favorite font? That's a good question because I used to really love I loved the ones that looked like people's handwriting. So I did really like marker felt one with a very little bit of drop shadow very little, or like Nancy's. I like Nancy's chok work, but I don't know if I would say those are my favorite, but they were once I'd turned to a lot because they I wanted those videos to feel very approachable, which

is actually the stuff I've never told you videos. So they're on YouTube and you can go look at all my chalk and marker based fonts. I need to do this right away. I also love a good fund, you know, like I'm not even someone who is technical in this way, but like good design is really important, like bad design. I can't tell you how many times I've been on like a restaurant website page where I'm like, this is so infuriating. That is terrible, and this user experience is terrible.

I don't even want to go to this restaurant anymore. Like good like good design can really open some doors and bad design can really close them. I'll just put it that way. You are completely correct, But no, I did like that. I just was like, oh, look she did this and this and then that blanket. I was like, oh, I love this blanket just has all those essentially emojis

that's all over her blankets that she designed. I was like, that is so cool, and then I thought about the fact that it and he loves talking about how she has a super power. So you're welcome for telling everyone your super power. It's a good power. It's probably my most useless one, but also the safest one. I'm glass direction. Wait, okay, thing I killed the sun killed that conversation real good a U Well when it comes to to Care, uh and these icons she's going to have, like her legacy

is a lasting legacy. It is a lasting legacy. And I guess yeah, As I said, I think it's important to highlight. You know, what she did was important. You know, I couldn't tell you whether or not personal computing would be the same if not for Care, But I know that she had an impact, and I think it's important to recognize. And I also just think it's important to again underscore that she did all of this as a

non technical person. She told the smith Sony in a better time at Apple, I loved working on that project. I always felt so lucky for the opportunity to be a non technical person and a software group. I was all by being able to collaborate with such creative, capable

and dedicative engineers. And I yeah, I think it's really awesome that she was holding it down on this group of engineers as a non technical woman doing her thing and really building out a lasting, endorming legacy in a field where things don't often last and don't often endure in this way. So I think it's really important to

recognize her work. I do too, And I think, you know, even looking back at the time when she was doing this and being a woman in this non technical space and I don't know, creating these things that have lasted, she's very very inspiring and I'm glad. I'm glad that you brought this story to our attention. Bridget Thank you for giving me the space to nerd out on this. Honestly, it truly is because I saw that badass picture of her on Old School Cool and Reddit. So whoever put

that on Reddit, thank you listeners. Please if you have not seen that picture, look it up. She is amazing. Yes, yes, it's so cool. Just I had goals, that would be one of them. Yeah, yes, you can achieve this Samantha. Now, I don't think so. I would fall out, like there's so many levels are cool that I couldn't hit, and one of them would be actually sitting like the Yeah, I'm worried for her back. Help she's really lean back. Well, thanks as always for being here, Bridget. Where can the

listeners find you? Well, if you want more nording out on all things tech and the Internet and things of that nature, you can definitely check out my podcast on I Heart Radio called there Are No Girls on the Internet. We would love to have you there, and you can follow me on social media. I'm at Bridget Marie on Twitter and at Bridget Marie in d C on Instagram. Yes, so go check out that podcast and followed Bridget. If you don't already listeners, and we can't wait to have

you again, Bridget, Oh, I can't wait. I cannot wait. Took sics in the city, I bet, and just like that and just like that, And you don't get that job because you don't want to. I don't want to be left out of the conversation. Help, but wonder, I couldn't help, but wonder Alright, alright, down to watch it. I'm just a little nervous, but I'm down to watch it.

I guess yes, it will be. It will be. And if you'd like to contact us listeners, you can our emails stuff Youdio, mom Stuff at I Hurt mea dot com. You can find us on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks

as always to our super producer Christina. Thank you Christina, and thanks to you for listening stuff one Never Told You insrotection of I Heart Radio for more podcast from my Heart Radio, I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite show