The Capitol insurrection was fueled by the anti-abortion movement

the Capitol. I live in Washington, d C. And I don't think I'll ever forget going from watching historic returns in the Georgia Senate runoff election and watching votes be certified for President Joe Biden on television to watching violent insurrectionists storm the capital in real time from my apartment, which is only about a mile away now. January six at the Capitol was not the first time that extremists have resorted to violence to try to get what they want.

In fact, many of the tactics and major players that led to the deadly insurrection at the Capitol were the very same that abortion providers and advocates have been warning about for decades. A few days after the insurrection last year, I joined my friend Samantha and Annie at the podcast stuff Mom Never Told You to break down the huge overlap between the anti abortion movement and the insurrection at

the Capitol and what it means for all of us. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Steph I ever told you a production of I Heart Radio. Today, we are once again joined by our good friend and colleague Bridget Todd. Hello, Bridget, Hello, I'm so excited to be here again. Yes, always a pleasure to have you. And Wow, I think we recorded in early December was the last time we met up in this virtual podcasting space. And a lot has happened. A lot has happened. Doesn't

that feel like it was years ago? It really does. It feels so for and I feel like I have slept a mania nights. There's been a mini a moon set of things have happened. I feel like I've already

aged ten years. Yeah, so there's a lot like I feel like it's it was a lot, yes, And so we wanted to ask you because the topic you're bringing us today is related both to past topics you've talked about, but also too what happened in the capital of the violence at the capital, and since you're in Washington, d C. We wanted to ask you about it. What was that like? Thank you for asking. It was very odd, as you might imagine. So when I woke up on January Ay six,

before I went to bed. I had been watching the numbers come in from the Georgia Senate runoffs, and I was feeling very good. I put on my lucky shirt that has a shirtly chism look quote on it, and so like, you know, I woke up beaming. I remember waking up like good morning. I was so excited, and I think it was because I had not felt that

kind of hope in a long time. So I was like feeling very very hopeful that morning, and it was like a like a power and a hope that I had not felt in I guess the last four years. And how quickly that feeling of hopefulness turned into just powerlessness. As I watched, you know, this insurrection happened, and I think that, like I was watching, it happened on television kind of in real time, and so it really got

so dark and so serious. So quickly it went from of course, there's just gonna be these Trump supporters, you know, standing out to the Capitol protesting, sure to like, oh my god, this is bad. You know, we got you know those things that you get on your phone and there's an amber alert, those like things on your phone. We everybody who was in my household got one of those at the same time from the Mayor of DC saying that there was a state of emergency order, there

was a curfew, we couldn't go out. It happened very quickly, And yeah, when I watched it, I'm always making this point, but DC is my home. I was raised here, this is my community. I lived here. This is like what I consider home. And I think that because it's where so much of our federal government stuff happens and where the you know, the capital is, people forget that just regular folks live here, Like this is where people live.

And so I was really heartbroken by thinking about this as not just an attack on our democracy and on our capital, but also on my community. You know, d C is largely black and brown, and so when these people were storming the capital, I saw videos where after they were storming the capitol, where did they go, Oh, to our restaurants, to our hotels, to our institutions, And just the idea that these people would be kind of

unleashed on my community really hurt. And so, you know, I always just got to like make sure that that point gets included, that it's not just lawmakers who live in d C. It's real people, some of WHI who have no connection to the government, and so it was not just an attack on our democracy and our capital was also attack on these people are our home, you know. Yeah, because we were all watching closely and knowing that you were my one of my connections in d C. Definitely

like follow you on Twitter. You actually mentioned like, hey, thanks a lot for bringing in the corona, like not wearing a mask and infecting our city and we were trying to control it, and you just made this bigger disaster because they were not only in your community, at your restaurants, at your hotels, at your places of service, as if this was a free for all, as if nothing were happening, and of course no one was arrested, so therefore they were just out and about doing their thing.

I just saw a report saying like a thirty something Capital police officers tested positives for corona just recently. But yeah, I saw you tweeting that. I was like, oh my god, she's so right. I didn't even think of that that part because I'm just looking at the violence. But holy crap,

it's a pandemic, Y'all's a pandemic. And it's like we just don't need this, and it totally I think that residents of DC have been pretty compliant when it comes to socially distancing and masking and all that kind of stuff. But just we have enough stuff going on as a city, you know, on top of the pandemic and everything else. Is it's just like one more big thing that we don't need. And I think it's also really hard to

act that d C is not really a state. I think that people just forget, like people don't understand that we don't have the same kind of protections or support that states have because we're not a state. And so you know, when the mayor was trying to get the National Guard to come in, that was delayed because she said, a mayor, she doesn't have that authority, and so she

had to get special permission. You know. I think it really illustrated to me how important it is that DC becomes a state at some point, because it just doesn't work. And every other place right now is being ravaged by the pandemic as is d C. And yeah, this doesn't help. We didn't need this. We're already having a tough time. The realities of when people decided to do stupid things exactly. Yeah,

and so glad you're okay. And in the wake of all of this, there's of course been a lot of looking into what happened and what led up to it and the people that were there. And I just remember so clearly you've come on here and spoken a lot about disinformation and missing information, and you said, like, people forget that these online things have real world consequences, and this was like one of the most I couldn't think

of a better example. And we were also been talking about women and Q and On and this very specific kind of like fear around children. And one of the things you wanted to talk about today is the anti abortion movement and how that was a part of this

whole thing of what happened at the Capitol. Right. Absolutely, I'm grateful that folks like yourself are continuing to pull apart all the different aspects of how we got here, whether it's Q and on targeting women who are concerned about children, and so I think that the connection between the violence that we saw the capital and the anti abortion movement is just one more of those kind of nuggets that I think we should, you know, not ignore,

because there are so many different aspects that got us to January six at the Capitol. I think that we should be talking about all of them, and I think some of them are easier to go sort of overlooked or a race, and I think the connections to the anti abortion movement is one of them, And so I really have to start by shouting out a couple of people. There is a great piece by Lauren Rankin and Refinery twenty nine called how anti abortion terrorism field the MAGA

attack on the Capitol. Really great piece. Cannot recommend it enough. And then another investigation by Carter Sherman at Vice called anti abortion activists were all over the Capital riots. So a lot of the information that I have found have come from those two pieces. And I also just have to shout out my friend Renney Bracy Sherman of the

organization We Testify. We Testifies an organization that tries to increase representation for people who got abortions, and so they were doing a lot of that work of saying, oh, hey, some of the people who were at the Capitol, they are very known to you know, abortion providers and abortion activists, and so I really just have to shout out the people who are doing the work to make sure that that conversation sort of we get to have it, and that we don't let stigma or whatever keep us from

having this conversation that can really help us understand how

we got to the insurrection on the six. And then yeah, also just the fact that last week was the forty eighth anniversary of Row versus Wade, you know, the landmark Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion in the US, and so on that day, I really was sitting with the fact that the same kind of tactics that abortion advocates have been warning about and screaming about and you know, pointing to for the longest time, those are the same tactics that got us to January six with these people all

storming the capital. I think that they're very, very similar, and they have a lot of overlap. Can you break down the disinformation that led up to this one, but also some of that overlap, because this isn't like a new occurrence violence within anti abortion movements. Absolutely, it is not a new occurrence. So just like the insurrection was kind of fueled by what they're now calling the big lie that Trump won the election and that it was

being stolen from him. The anti abortion movement has similarly trafficked in just straight lies about abortion, about people who have them, about abortion providers, and I think it really illustrates what happens when those lies go more or less unchallenged. And so, you know, when putting together with my information for this episode, I was like, oh, yeah, some abortion disinformation and misinformation and in accuracies are so common that

you don't even really think about it anymore. And actually, just last week, the University of California Berkeley School of Public Health put out a study that found that four of the five most presented web pages in response to a search for abortion pill on Google were less than accurate. Right. And so just the idea that on our biggest search engine, when you Google for information about abortion, it is likely that information is a lie, is not true, and it's

like misleading, right. And so I think that a big thing to point out here is what happens when fabrications are just tolerated. That that's just like the state of play when it comes to misinformation. And I think also when you look at, you know, the lead up to the election, we saw so much inaccurate information being flooded on social media about Biden and Harris and their positions

on abortion. And the thing that's like really sad but also shows how savvy these disinformers can be, is that disinformers know that there is a lack of good news and media sources that are in Spanish, and so they then fill that gap with inaccurate information that is in Spanish. And so you saw the Latin X community being really targeted and inundated by inaccurate distorted information about abortion meant

to impact the outcome of the election. And so another point is that these often are happening in what's App groups that are private, so like unlike Facebook where you can kind of get a sense of like what's happening,

or Twitter, where it's happening mostly in public. It's a close platform to have, you know, your private what's App group with your aunts and uncles and cousins, right, And so we saw lots of really horrific anti abortion messaging targeting the Latin X community in Spanish speaking community is on these platforms. And so yeah, I think that much like with the insurrection, when you have just an accepted baseline of inaccurate information about people who have abortions, about

abortion providers, about underrepresented our marginalized communities. It can actually translate to real world violence, real world danger, real world threats. This is not something that this is happening online. Researchers

have been very clear about that. You know, one of the things that I just read and we just know that happened in Kentucky is they passed the born alive abortion ban, which is nothing more than a political statement trying to do some fear moongraing saying this is what's happening, this is what the Democrats are doing. You see, they're killing the babies after they're born, which is absolutely false.

But then we have a narrative where they actually put it into law, so it seems like it's real because like, here's an a moment that's attitude state law. We have to address it as making it illegal because it's happening so much, which is a part of that misinformation that is being thrown out there. But it's so scary, and which is also why this back and forth about this unity and letting people go because you know, they didn't know what they were doing. Trump told them to do it.

All this it's this level of giving some kind of meat to this rumor, which is completely unfounded, but because it's a political move it's so scary to see because once again, here we go with this misinformation, not just being a rumor, not just being an outright lie, which

obviously people are believing anyway. How do you see with all of that, with that type of strategy, with that type of fear mongering that's actually part of our government structure, how do you see that bleeding into things like these riots? Oh my gosh, it's so incredibly frustrating, Like what you just described, I have worked in the feminist movement and you know, spaces like that for most of my adult life,

and it's not new, but it is. It sure is frustrating, you know, when we spend actual resources and time and energy on things that are not true, things that are just like fabrications. And I I understand the sentiment. You know, A good example is when Project Veritas put out those videos purporting to show Planned parenthood staffers talking about selling body parts and this and that. That was a fabrication, But yet we still had to spend time and resources

combating something that was a lie. And I think that you're exactly right that, yes, it's annoying that, like taxpayer money and resources gets spent on making laws or legislation about things that just aren't happening. But even more than that, it's like it takes up so much oxygen in the room, Like what meaningful policies could we be discussing or getting past? What kind of progress are we not able to get to because we were too busy spitting in a circle

about something that was a lie. So I think that as much as what you just described is horrible, it's also just it's such a waste because it just takes up so much energy people have to spend their time combating against things that are just flies. And I think that we really have to get to a place in this country where I'm not gonna say it started with Trump, but he certainly didn't help. I feel like we've gotten to a place where people don't understand that there's lies

and there's true and you can have your opinion. There are things where you're like, oh, well, I'm not so sure of course, but at the end of the day, some things are just live. We have a lot facing us as a country. We don't have time or resources to spend on things that are just lies. So we've got to get back to a place where we can all agree like some things are just not true and not worth taking the oxygen out of the room to

combat them, you know what I mean. So with that, because of stuff like that, it as another additional need of protection for women specifically, but even men. And of course we can go into the conversation about how to abortion movement is actually a misogynistic movement in order to control women's bodies. That's the whole conversation we've had before,

probably need to have all the times. But when we look at things like this riot, when we look at the people who are actually involved with it, like you said, they were able to pinpoint, Hey, that dude is known for coming to threatened women, that dude is known for harassing women trying to get to an abortion clinic just

to have a conversation, or even supporting planned parenthood. How do things like legislation like this feed into movements like this that causes this like violent rhetoric and almost a mob lynching mentality. Yeah, it's a great question. I think it legitimizes them. I think when we treat movements that are not above threatening, violent tactics, agitation, things like that. Of course, I am a protester, you know, I've been

protesting since I've been a child. So I completely, a thousand percent support anyone's free speech and ability to assemble and protests, even if it's personal thing I don't agree with. That is a tected thing, and I find it to be quite sacred. However, harassing people trying to get to a clinic so that they can't get into the door,

that's different, right, Threatening violence, that's different. And so I think that when lawmakers, public policy officials, folks like that, when they create policy that says, oh, what you're saying, that's okay, Like, okay, we'll put out a law that says this thing that has that is not happening, it's

against the law. Now, it's like, I feel like it just legitimizes and emboldens people that they can use these kinds of tactics to get what they want, right, and that's to go back to the insurrection for a moment. I think that's one of the things that's been so frustrating in the aftermath of this conversation, people saying things like, well, you know, if you vote to impeach Trump. That's just going to make them more angry. And it's like we

can't have this. It's like like we can't live in a country where we are afraid to do what's needed to be done because people think that it's okay to respond with violence when they don't get their way. It's like that, like we can't have that. A country can't be built on that. Yeah. And going back to this anti abortion movement and its relation to to the insurrection, it's something we've been talking about a lot lately, and

I've been on my mind a lot lately. Is how kind of new it is, Like in a lot of ways it's old, but like the strength with the Republican Party with conservatism and women are people just voting on abortion? And then how like emotional an issue that is for people?

And then like you said, all of this like these false facts and disinformation and misinformation, and people who were watching this and who were listening to Trump and and watching this like, well, I guess like we didn't know it was gonna be right then, but this thing he was holding and they were saying like, no, this is the anti abortion movement is going to be involved in it and it turns out, yes, um, can you talk

about that? Yes, that's exactly right. So here's what Aaron Mattson, the executive director of Reproaction, which they track anti abortion activists. Here's what she said. She says, anti abortion agitators have been calling and supporting the president. I guess the then president. The President's called the store in Washington for some time.

I know, and I am confident that as time goes on and more and more of these photos are analyzed, but we'll see more overlap between the anti abortion movement and the white supremacists who tried to overthrow the United States of America. And she was completely right. A number of very prominent anti abortion voices were president at the Capitol in June six. And this is not a coincidence. There has been this long standing crossover between the two movements,

the anti abortion movement and white supremacist terror movements. Like that is not a new thing. It's gives you all have done such a great job of talking about there's so much to untangle when it comes to you know, white supremacist movements, anti abortion movements, anti women movements, they are all kind of in the same stuff, mixed bag I yes, you would say. And Vice had a really great rundown of all of the different prominent anti abortion

voices who were at the Capitol that day. Abby Johnson, she's one of the nation's highest profile anti abortion activists, um and she was in d C. She tweeted an image of herself at a Trump rally that preceded uh the invasion of the capital, and she wrote front row with the most pro life president of our country. John Broke Coved, who was a convicted abortion clinic bomber, live streamed himself at the Capitol on January six, as he put it, quote fighting for our beloved President Donald J. Trump.

Taylor Hansen, who you might know he got very popular by putting these murals up all over the country that said baby lives matter. He was there. And also Derek Evans, a member of the West Virginia House of Delicates, live streamed a video of himself in a helmet urging rioters

to break into the building. And two years earlier, a court forbid Evans from having any contact with a woman who helped escort patients at West Virginia's lone abortion clinic after she accused him of regularly standing outside and harassing her. So these are people who have documented histories of a either being very prominent anti abortion voices or b I just showing themselves to not be above threats and violence

to push their extreme anti abortion agenda. So it's not a coincidence that these folks also felt that that kind of extremism was an appropriate response to be used in the capital, you know, and you know, as you're talking about specifically Evans, and of course he actually resigned because of people actually be like, hey, oh, this is not good.

Let's not have him represent us, which is nice to see, I guess, but he being a violent person who came yelling after and harassed to the point that women were scared. That was one of the other conversations they were having with the anti abortion was many of the people are like, hey, that dude, he has so much domestic violence. If you look at his rap sheet, that dude is known as being violent towards women. Like all of these things that had shown obvious. Oh oh, these are the dudes who

end up being shooters. Like that's kind of that match shooter conversation, Like, these are the same people who are going after people going to harass and trying to assassinate candidates. And we also saw meny who were obviously like the Proud Boys, who were very racist, and we knew they were racist, and we knew they were white supremacists, and they're proud to be white supremacist. And you see all of these people like, oh, those are the violent who

are racist and sexist. How do you think that this type of disinformation led to them being the ones that led the riots? I mean, it's a great question. I'm not at all surprised. You know, we know that disinformation largely impacts underrepresented people. So it largely is fueled by these horrible distortions about who we are, whether it's women, black folks, other communities of color. Disinformation is fueled by racist, sexist, like the worst racist sexist imagining of who we are, right,

that's complete caricatures. And so it is not surprising to me that these people would be fueled by this kind of hateful content and really truly believe it. And I think, you know, to your point, the fact of the matter is, I'm happy that Evans resigned. That I'm to the point where whenever there's some sort of like accountability or consequence. I'm like, oh wow, look at that someone faced a consequence.

They still have those, but these are people who have scary backgrounds, right, people who have shown themselves to not be above using violence to get what they want. And you're exactly right that because we don't take violence against women very seriously. Most times, when there's a mass shooter or some sort of mass scale violence behind that, there is a trail of people who tried to sound the alarm, usually women. You know, I think it was on Christmas Eve that guy who he set off a bomb in

was I wanna say, Tennessee, Nashville, thank you. Come to find out his girlfriend previously was like, I think he's making a bomb, right, like like pretty clearly, you know, when it's like I wish we could get to a place where violence against women was disqualifying that like people just didn't it slide because it's so often is an

indicator that something else bad is going to happen. And I just wish that we lived in a world where these kinds of warnings were taken seriously instead of being ignored. Right when we talk about this information happening and we see it being targeted towards women specifically. I was kind of shocked to see how many women really really dug into Q and on and the whole like I have to protect my babies. I have to protect my babies. But when it comes down to the violence, more often

than not, as the men. And again, of course we've had this conversation again how misogyny plays a bigger part of anti abortion movements than we know. How do we see that men end up taking these kinds of initiatives and owning them I guess is the word, and then taking it into such a route that it becomes a volatile,

bigger movement than what is online. So as what I'm saying is like we see a lot of Q and misinformation, and we found out that Instagram was one of the biggest of connections for women and she using like influencers to talk to these women who feel like they need to do all these things. But when it comes down to like parlor and when it comes down to rend it in fourtune, it's the men and who initiate these like kind of responses of it. We have to do something,

let's get armed. And we see that misinformation being bled into anti abortion movements, into the only person who can say by country is former President Trump. How do we see this information being played out where it becomes such a big or conspiracy theory that it does lead to violence. Wow, that's a long winded question. I'm sorry. I mean it's a big question. I think that we know that if you hear something enough times that people eventually believe it.

And so the more times that you hear something, the more times that you hear a false claim go completely unchecked, people are likely to believe it. I hope that this is understood in the spirits, which I mean it people who are out to disiniform, out to cause chaos and confusion. They're very smart, and they're very savvy, and they're very

good at it. And I think that the dynam meant that you just described where they're sort of a softer version of it for women to get them involved, and then a lot of the violence is led by men. I think that is a really smart, savvy way to

structure a movement. And somebody once told me, whatever the movement is, there's never any kind of movement without women, right, And so I do think that we have to have some tough conversations about the role that women played because one of the first people to die in the insurrection was Ashley Babbitt, a woman who had been completely completely,

just like consumed by Q and On conspiracy theories. And so I think that you see women sort of being indoctrinated to be sort of like the foot soldiers of this movement where men are largely the ones who are pushing for violence, like your boogaloo boys and things of that nature. That serves a very important function because I think that if women are feeling like, well, I need to support this because it's going to keep me feeling safe,

it's going to keep my position in society intact. It's a very smart way to have these kinds of conspiracy theories be gendered in the way that they are, because I think it does ensure that, you know, if you're a woman who maybe isn't so into the whole politics thing, but you know you don't like the idea of children being targeted, and you get wrapped up in Q and On. I think that the idea that the men storming the capital are going to create safety for you and your children,

I can understand why that's a seductive message. You know, look at the way. That Trump message to white suburban women all throughout the election, saying things like, oh, if you vote for Biden, quote, antipa is going to be at your front door. You know you're gonna have riots, and your in your streets. You know your kids aren't safe. I think that he messaged that way because I think it's effective. Everybody wants to be safe, and I think it's a really smart way to ensure that everybody is

bought in. Even if you're not like a violent person and you're not going to be the one breaking windows and trying to like hunt down members of Congress with zip ties, you might be supportive of it if you feel that, like that's what the men have to do quote unquote to restore order and keep you and your family safe. It's very savvy, and part of me kind of is not surprised that it works on so many women, right. It was interesting to see also, like the mothers with

their sons. We had at least two examples of those, and I was like, which I know. There's been articles about that as well, including the fact that one of the young men who actually is from Georgia Blue Ridge,

near minor hometown, blamed his mother. In the testimony, he actually blamed his mother would an as, I mean, this was poor woman, and she was you know what I'm saying, like, and that really does tell you all you need to know, right that, you know, if you get caught storming the capital, that like, oh my mom didn't raise me, right, that that would be your first excuse. Honestly, this mom should be like, wow, I really didn't do such a hot job.

I have to wonder what her response was, because all I've read was his testimony in which he was like, yeah, my mom told me to do this, My mom told me to pick those up. My mom did this. And it was quite funny because I was like, dude, you come in here trying to be big masculine. I'm going to kidnap these people and then be like, my mama did it right? Throw on your own mother under the bus.

And it's funny that you say this because I have noticed a lot of these people are being released to their parents or in the care of a family members and things of that nature. Your point is such a good one, where it's like what happened to like, oh, we're storming the capital and we're you know, big and bad and blah blah blah. And now when you get caught, you're like, oh, well, I gotta release me to my mom.

I was like, which is it. If you're gonna be an insurrectionist, at least I do it with your shis. But you know, well, And just coming back to because I think this is just a simple question I do and I don't understand it is how did the anti abortion movement become the center of this riot? Almost I think that there's so much overlap between the two that I think a lot of these people saw Donald Trump as the person who was going to, in their eyes,

restore the rights of children and the unborn right. And so it's it's not even the question of like, how did it become? I think it was always there. I think so many of the people at the forefront of the insurrection also did have this history with the anti abortion movement. I think it's like the same way that you cannot unpack their white supremacist leanings, their anti women leadings, their anti immigrant leanings. I think it's all one big

ball of yarn that led us here. And the fact of the matter is, you even saw anti abortion groups spreading this complete lie that quote Antifa was responsible, even though we know that's not true, and though we know many of these people live streamed their crimes. You know, Kristen Hawkins, who is the head of Students for Life of America, which is the nation's biggest anti abortion student group, she blamed ANTIFA members and other writers for storming the

cow at all. And so you already have the mainstream anti abortion movement circling the wagons to protect the violent actions of these people, some of whom are probably doing this in support of their anti abortion ideology. Yeah, it's

so frustrating. I hate that when you're like, but this video here, they can still be like no, no. So we did see just so much racism and sexism on display at this riot, and that there were a lot of conversations afterwards, rightfully so comparing the police and like public reaction to Black Lives Matter protest versus this riot. And then also you have in in this handy outline, you gave us the history between abortion clinic violence and

how that kind of overlaps with what happened. Absolutely so one of the things I think is really interesting about what some of these abortion activists and advocates are saying, is that the same way that many of us, myself included, were disgusted watching the police take selfies with the rioters and shake their hands and just generally seem very buddy

buddy with the rioters. That is very similar to what abortion advocates and clinic workers have reported when they try to engage the police to report violence or threats happening at their clinics. And so there's a little piece from refinding between nine, she says. In August ninety four, Win Indiana abortion clinic received a bomb threat. The city refused to dispatch either police or fire officials, forcing clinic staff

to search for the bomb themselves. Nearly forty years later, Becca Balinger, a clinic escort in New York City, called it a complaint about protesters violating the fifteen foot buffer zone at the clinic. When he arrived, she told her Farwy nine, she watched the responding officer approached the violator, shake his hand and give him a hug. He then turned to the group of clinic escorts and said, what are you doing to restrict their First Amendment rights? Today?

And I think that one it enraged me. It was like, fine, this guy, but I do think it shows the level to which the police can sort of not always be counted on to be, you know, restoring public order. The same way that we saw police be buddy buddy with the rioters at the Capitol. Abortion rights activists have said that this is not surprising. This is exactly how it is when we have called to report threats or violence

at clinics. And the fact of the matter is the Associated Press found that law enforcement agencies nationwide has said that at least thirty one officers in twelve states are being scrutinized by their supervisors for their behavior at the Capitol. Right.

And so we know that the same way that we definitely have a problem with needing to root out people that have white supremacist ties who are serving in police forces, it is not a stretch to imagine that that is also a problem when it comes to anti abortion ideology, that police officers they might feel sympathetic to people who

would be threatening violence at a clinic. Right. And so these abortion advocates have been saying, yes, we have been reading the alarm about the fact that the police have seemed to be buddy buddy with agitators at our clinics for years. Again, it's just one of those things. It's a tough conversation to have, but we do need to talk about the ways that some of these darker forces have infiltrated our police, the people who are meant to

be restoring order, you know. And so I do think we have to have these kinds of tough conversations that put these things at the forefront. Yeah, and there's such a like we've been talking about with this like ball of yarn or these vinn diagrams and all this overlap because if you do look at the history of abortion clinics like this is this violence and threatening of violence has been there for a long time, like since the beginning, right, Yeah.

I mean, anybody who has worked in the abortion or reproductive rights space can tell you this is not a new problem. And I just think we really have to grapple with the fact that so many people who work in these spaces have been warning that the unchecked spread of distortions and lies on social media about abortion and about clinics and about abortion providers will lead to real

world violence. And so I just think it's important to note how much overlap there was with the violence at the capital and the kind of violence that these abortion advocates have been warning of for years. Yeah, it's so much. It's so much too untangle as we continue to have these conversations, and certainly disinformation is a huge part of it. Is there anything you want to shout out, any resources you want to shout out, or I guess what people

can be looking for. Yeah, I'm sure I've said this on the show before, but the number one thing we can all do to curb disinformation is not amplify it, even if you're trying to dunk on it, even if you've got a great joke. Sometimes it can be hard to resist. I know it, But don't amplify it. If you focus instead on kind of creating your own little pocket of the Internet that can be known for trustworthy information, that it's such a better way to spend your time.

I think that we all have to really understand the way that like this is not just something that's happening online. You know, I referenced this great more in rank in

piece that or findye on folction all read that. But she points out that conspiracy theories and outlandish rhetoric aren't without consequences, particularly when encouraged by those in power and anti abortion extremists launched a highly visible smear campaign against Planned Parenthood, featuring doctored videos that accused the organization of

illegally selling fetal body parts. It was absertain, completely untrue, but that didn't stop congressional Republicans from embracing the conspiracy theory to crying Planned Parenthood and opening an investigation into the organization. Just a few months later, Robert Dear opened fire on a Planned Plarenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, killing

three people, including a security guard. He confessed that he was quote upset with them performing abortions and selling baby parts, a direct reference to the cooked up anti abortion smear campaign, a conspiracy theory that certainly has echoes, and other far right conspiracies like Q and on and so again, these are not just things people are saying online. They can have real world consequences, just like the continued repeated lie that Trump won the election and that it was being

stolen lad to violence at the Capitol. The more that we tolerate just unchecked conspiracy theories and allow them to seep into our mainstream institutions like our Congress and our government, the higher the risk for real world danger and real world violence. And so do not think this is just happening online. This is a real thing that has real

consequences for all of us. So with that, because as we talked about, they were already putting in laws that don't makes us, that are just political games in order to continue this rhetoric of lies for anti abortion reasons. As well as the fact that even though Trump is gone, there still the lie of voter suppression is very well in play. As in fact, you know, in the state of Georgia, and I think I saw it in the state of North Carolina, they're already vamping up new ways

to suppress votes. We've got a Republican state lawmakers here in Georgia doing new laws to try to take away from absentee voting, shutting down all the polls. So all of this disinformation, Like even though it's kind of like, okay, we can kind of push it side because Biden's finally in office, this anti abortion rhetoric is not gone. Just because we have an actual pro abortion choice people in

office doesn't mean this fight it's not over. What can we do as a listeners, What can we do as the people behind here as we see, it's not just online. What can we do in real life to help a stunt of the spread, but be also be an advocate. I think the fact that I forget the numbers, but there are a lot of Republicans lawmakers right now who to this day will not say that the election was not stolen. You know, we have kind of like the idea of quote legal votes has made it into our lexicon.

As if there is a widespread, documented pattern of voting irregularities in this country. There just is not. There are in every election, you have people where it's like, oh, I was voting for my son who's at college, or this or that. There's always a smattering of sketchiness here or there, but there is not any kind of documented, widespread voting a regular larities in this election or in

any of our last recent elections. Right And so the fact that things like oh, well, I think we should count legal votes has become part of our lexicon and has been sort of seen to be kind of a moderate thing. I think has done such a great disservice to our democracy. I don't think we will know how bad it is for many years, you know, I think it planted a seed in a lot of people that maybe we'll never go away. And honestly, I think one thing that we can all do is just being willing

to push back on the echoes of these fabrications. So whether you know, if someone says, well, I think we should count every legal vote, being willing to say, like, well, you know, what do you mean by that? You know, tell me do you think there's a lot of illegal votes out there? Like? What do they look like? How often are they happening? I think being willing to interrogate these claims so that they cannot become part of our fabric of understanding the world because they're based on lies.

The same way that when people say, like, oh, did you know that Joe Biden supports a board shin up until five minutes before delivery, and saying that's not true, that it is incorrect. If someone was trying to do a rebortion five minutes before you were meant to be in labor, that will be a crime. That's not happening,

and that's incorrect. This being willing to push back on these ideas that are based on nothing in ways that are going to actually prevent them from becoming part of the fabric of how we understand the world because they're based on lies. I know that it's a tall order, but we have enough in this world to contend with. We don't need more, right, That's what I'm having more.

That's fair. You know, I just have to see you one last thing, because you have been in it, and you have been in it, whether physically because you're in d C or because you're part of things like Ultra Violet and and talking about this information. What I you've been doing for yourself for self care? Because we haven't asked this question a long time, but that's been a part of our So what is your self care? Oh my god, I'm so excited to talk about this. It's funny.

I mean, it was my mantra the last few because just like I gotta get to inauguration, I gotta get to inauguration, I gotta get to an I had not been doing a great job of taking care of myself because there was so much after the insurrection on the six I think that everybody in my little community here in d C was just we had just had enough. We had just had it. But you know, one of the things that I do to really keep myself grounded

and restore myself. This really is being outside. And so this weekend I went on a lovely hike in George Washington National Forest and it was very restorative, even though it was cold as balls. So just trying to spend time outside, trying to remember that I can only I can only consume so much. I can only do so much. You know, if I read every new take from what happened in the insurrection or every new horrible thing that's going on, I won't necessarily be any better informed or

be any better poise to make a difference. And something I can really do to make sure that I'm better poised to make a difference is like sleep, take care of myself, take breaks, And I encourage everybody to do that. You know, it can be enticing to want to refresh Twitter a million times a day and get every new update of every new detail of every new story, but that does not necessarily translate to you being better informed or a better ally or a better fighter in this movement.

So I appreciate you guys making the space to talk about that, because I think it does get erased in the movement that like taking care of yourself is very important. Encourage everybody too. It's important. What are you doing and writing fan fiction? And I got a walking treadmill desk, like a really cheap one, really cheap. I don't want anyone to be like, wow, no, it's very cheap and small, but it's I like it is it under your desk right now? No, this is my podcast desk, it's under

my researches. I used two separate spaces. It sounds like you're so rich, Cola, and even if it is a small Okay, well I was trying to help you out there. Yes, that's what I'm doing. Yeah, I honestly I don't know. Look, and that's not because I'm not doing things. It's mainly because I am so just organized with my time, because I am at the worst of keeping things separate. So I'll work all the time and then just sit all the time too, So it's like one or the other.

But for me, a lot of like I am a comfort person, so I'll rewatch things that I love and know how it's going to turn out, and then bask in that and then also a lot of cuddle times with my dog. Why does it feel so good to like rewatch The Office for the hundred times, like, like,

what is it about it that's so comforting? It feels like friends, And because you know coming you're not gonna be shocked or just a pointed or if you're going to be disappointed, you already know it's going to be disappointing, and sometimes you can fast forward through that. Yeah, what's your comfort show? Oh? I have a few? Supernatural has become one, thank you Annie, and I don't know why, but it has become one. But also a new Girl, Parks and rec have become a few of them. I

watched some weird things like The Flash. I really loved that show, and I just love how genuinely sweet it is. So I watched really silly things like that, and then I'll rewatch movies. You know, Body's business. I love this. It's like a prescription for self care and comfort. Yeah,

and also I just wear soft pants. That's my mother comfort, soft pants, dog cuddles and the television shows you've seen a million times before us sounds great, Well, Bridget what else do you think if we left anything out or if there's more that you resources that you want to provide?

Is there anything else you want to add, well, I would say, if you want to have more conversations about disinformation and how it pertains to women and folks of color, my podcast There Are No Us on the Internet just released a brand new series all about disinformation called Disinformed. You can check it out on this very network I heart Radio. Awesome. Yeah, and definitely do that listeners. Bridget, you want to shout out any any other places that

the good listeners can find you? Yes, I'm on Twitter at Bridget Murray and I'm on Instagram at Bridget Murray in d C. Well, thank you as always for being here. You managed to make you a delight even though we're talking about things that are not so delightful. It's a skill. Thank you. I hope so you know you can. There's always room for humor, even if it's gallows humor. There's always room for humors. Yes, yes, and we very much

appreciate it. Can't wait till you're back again. Listeners. If you would like to email as you can or email The Stuff Media Mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can find us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always too, I'm super producer Christina. Heyy Christina, and thanks to you for listening. Stufinitely never told you the protection of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from I Heart Radio, visit That I Heard You app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H