She was sexually assaulted during a Lyft ride. Now she’s fighting to make rideshares safer for everyone.

So well. On the show, we talk a lot about how it's often marginalized people who make technology safer for everyone, and how it comes at a huge personal cause, but too often we do not hear these stories. Last year, the ride share app Lift or at least a report on the number of people sexually assaulted in ride shairs. Now, they didn't just do this out of concern for public safety. It was because of pressure generated by survivors. Survivors like Allison Turkos, who was suing both Lift and the New

York Police Department. On October fourteen, seventeen, after a night out with friends, Allison hailed a lift to get back to her Brooklyn department when she noticed the driver was taking her in the wrong direction. She thought maybe he was trying to scammer out of twenty or thirty dollars. She tried to hop out of the car at a red light, but realized the child blocks were on, and when the driver pulled out a gun, she realized this

wasn't just a scam. The lift driver brought her across state lines from New York to New Jersey, where he held he act gunpoint, raped her, and stood by as two other men did too. It was the worst night of her life. What was your life like before October fourteen two out and seventeen? I always described October fourteen m as the before times my best friend Morgan and I. That's sort of how we even thinking about us, Like

I get emotional. Um, we Morgan and I always describe it as the before times, particularly because I was with her um October, which was the Thursday, and um, there's this photo of us at this restaurant that our friend Rebecca took in the Lower East Side of Manhattan, and Morgan and I are just like radiating joy and love and we're holding each other. Um. And usually on the anniversary in October, every single year, both of us will share that on social media, UM, and just really hold

space for what we refer to as the before times. UM. So before October fourteen, UM, I, I'm pausing because I want to say that I was a more joyful person, not to say that I don't have the ability to

experience joy in this moment um in my life. UM. And you can like hear my voice quivering, And I think, just because like, UM, I think, the way that I want to answer this is the idea that like, I'm mourned the person that I was in October for I'm more in for the person that I was in October seventeen, because when a person experiences any type of violence, but I think, particularly for those of us who experienced rape and sexual assault or the spectrum of harm, UM, the

person that we were going to become ceases to exist. And So in two seventeen, I had like incredible career aspirations. I thought that I wanted to be an executive director of a nonprofit. I you know, was casually dating UM a person and was in an intimate relationship. UM. I was having sex. I was really open to pleasure. UM. I had a dramatically for relationship with my body. And you know, I was someone who really moved through the

world freely. Um. You know, I was someone who was not consumed with lawsuits and navigating the criminal legal system. And you know, so right before UM talking to you, I UM was having a zoom date with one of my best friends, Kate. And you know, every single time that I check in with one of my friends now so often, you know, they asked me questions like have you talked to the FBI recently? Have you talked to your lawyers? Have you talked to federal prosecutors? In Those

were not questions that anyone was asking me, UM. And so I think my life was just so much more care free, and I wasn't carrying the weight. Um. You know, I was a survivor. The first time that I was actually assaulted, I was sixteen, and the second time that I was actually assaulted that I was eighteen. And so in October, SE carried the weight of being a survivor.

But I was really starting to unpack that identity. And I think it just when I think about that time and I'm you know, working through this in therapy, it's just I just mourn for myself because I think about, like, what would it look like if this hadn't happened, and what would it look What would my friendships look like, what would my potential romantic relationships look like? What would

my relationship with my family look like? Because my relationship with my family has been incredibly impacted by this, my relationships with my friends has been impacted. UM, And so I think it's just the idea of UM. I really just try to practice so much compassion and grace and patience for myself UM, and to always hold space for the fact that, UM, I was a different person, but where I got into a car UM in October and something incredibly traumatic happened, and it's okay because that's what

violence does to a person. UM. And the way that I really talk about it often or think about it often is that like when a bomb goes off inside of a room, UM, those walls fall back, and you know, a house might crumble, or you know, the structure that scaffolding might be left. UM. But when a person's body experiences violence, or particularly when what happened to me, you know, I have no physical scars. My body is still intact. And UM, it's really hard because sometimes you might look

at me and you might think she's fine. Or you know, I might meet people today and they will have no idea unless they google me or I decided to disclose what happened to me. They would just think that I am a quote unquote like normal thirty three year old woman who was living her best life. And I just think that unless you know, someone knows my story. You know, the amount of violence that I have experienced in my life, particularly in the year of seventeen um like how much

violence can a body withstand? And I think myself and many other survivors and victims can say, you know, sometimes our bodies no no bounds because we are able. You know, It's why we identify as survivors. If you're in a room with five women, statistically one of them has survived that attempted sexual assault or right, there are so many of us, some who speak openly about their experiences and others who don't. That was something that really helped put

things in sharper focus for me. How many of us are out there, and that you would just think this is someone living their best life. It is a carefree, joyful human in the world. But we're all carrying these stories with us. It's so many of us. And I think when you really contend with the scope of how many people are out there that our survivors and that you would never know, it makes me, on the one hand, enraged, like how much can a body take? But on the

other hand, I might we are an army. It's all it's all of us. It's so many of us. We are an army. In two thousand and eleven, I helped to organize uh the Slot Walk in New York City,

and I organized that as an ally. I didn't identify as a survivor, and I was doing a lot of work to dismantle rape culture, but was so distanced from the sexual assault that I had experienced in high school and the sexual assault that I experienced four years earlier in college, and was like marching in the streets screaming about you know that no matter what you wear, it does not mean that you should. You know that you

are welcoming sexual assault, etcetera. And that if you decide to report to the police, police should no matter what. But we're treating you with dignity and respect and trust. And it wasn't until like early fall of that I really started to with the help of an incredible therapist. UM realize that, like deeply, deeply down in the depth of my brain and my body, because as we all know,

the body keeps score. UM that I had experienced sexual assault earlier in my life and had just um, you know, was sort of like, this is over here and I'm not going to touch it. And the thing that I think about is that, UM, you know, survivors look like your best friend, they look like your mom, they look like your brother, UM, you know, your boss, UM, you know the elected officials sitting next to you. And the thing that I think about so often is that, UM,

you know, survivors never owe you a disclosure. And I think that in a lot of the organizing work I do. UM, this is really important to me to always remember, is that we don't owe you our stories. And UM that you know, given the rates of sexual abuse in this country and the world globally, UM, and how under reported we know that sexual assault and rape is UM that you very often should assume that you are holding space

and community with a survivor. And so when you you know, you could be at dinner party, you could be at you know, your child's school, at a school board meeting and talking about you know, everything from dress code to you know, like what does sexual assault UM reporting look like too? Even in your workplace and talking about workplace harassment.

And you should always be operating under the assumption that there is a survivor sitting next to you, or that the person in power is a survivor UM, no matter in my opinion, how they might be, the words that they might be choosing to use, because sometimes, as we know, trauma responses can get the best of us. UM. But just the idea that UM, just because someone has never told you verbatim that they are a survivor of sexual assault or harassment or rape UM, does not mean that

that is an experience that they have had. I am here today not because I want to be I am terrified. I am here because I believe it is my civic duty to tell you what happened to me while Brett Kavanaugh and I were in high school. During the confirmation hearing of Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanall back in, Christine Blaisieford testified that Kavanall raped her when they were in high school. Her story was powerful, and she talked about the personal cost of both her and her family and

speaking up about it. But in the end, Kavanaugh was still confirmed. We live in a world that asks survivors to recount the stories of their trauma and their pain over and over and over again to get justice, whatever that even looks like. After Allison was raped, she reported what happened to the police and to lift something that I feel like we tell survivors is that if you tell your story again and again and again in the right ways to the right people, that is the way

that you can sort of get justice. And we sort of say that with kind of a I guess, callous disregard for the fact that what we're really telling people is like, relive your trauma over and over and over again, and that's that is a pathway to get justice. In

your case, you have done that. I can I can only imagine what if it's been like to relive this painful, traumatic experience over and over again but then not get any kind of satisfying outcome and not get any kind of even a even a like even just to reply back to an email. What has that been like for you? Excellent question, um. I think one of the things that I applaud like deep reflection every single time that I think about you know, why I chose to report in

the reporting process. Um. You know, in high school, I didn't tell anyone. I didn't tell my parents, I didn't tell friends. In college, same thing. My rapist in college was on an athletic team, and so I was sort of operating under the assumption that because he was in a position of power on campus and he would be

more likely to be believed. And so then in UM, because I had had some significant memory loss, and UM, you know, I thought UM, and I sort of emphasized that because I was really there was an assumption that you know, because this was a lift driver, and because I had a copy of the map, and because I had a photo of him, and because I had his Taxing Limo UM Taxing Limo Commission license number, because in New York City, in order to drive a ride share uber or lift, you have to be licensed with the

tlc UM Commission, and UM, I had a license plate number. And so because I had all of that information and a map of our ride that I was literally handing the New York Police Departments Special Victims Division. UM, like an opening close case is an assumption that I was making and you know, when I made the difficult decision to have a rape kit done, which I had never done before. Um, you know, and and we later found

out that there was DNA and my kit. Um. Once again, I was sort of operating under the assumption that, like, this was going to be easy. I'm not a police officer, nor have I ever you know, investigated a case. But um,

I just thought that this would be relatively easy. Um. And then you know, less than a month in, what I started to realize was that it was going to become my second full time job to hold this particular detective her name was Maria Kenyons out of the New York UM Brooklyn Special Victims Division, to respond to an email, to return a phone call, um to you know, like should I And then it became one of those moments of you know, like if I text her, is that

me bothering her? And so then should I not text her? Should I only email her? If I call her too many times? Is she going to get annoyed with me? And the idea of like the like brain games that as a rape victim, mere weeks after my sexual assault and kidnapping, that I had to play in order to like get my detective to like me enough to have

to respond to me is just horrifying. And then as weeks went on and UM, she would do things like withhold certain infort like we got the results of my read kit in December of seen, and she would tell me certain information but not tell me all information, and would withhold certain information. And then I would think, you know, like, okay, so I need to act a certain way in order

for her to tell me certain things. And UM in UM March of we had a meeting on March eighteenth, and that was when she had disclosed UM the majority of my rape kit results, which had disclosed that there were multiple seamen samples found in my rape kit, which had then UM alerted us to the fact that it was a gang rape and that there were multiple perpetrators who had assaulted me that night. And I started to cry.

I started to show an emotion because I did not at that point in time remember the assault, but I was getting information and I did not have a memory to attach to that UM to that gang rape. And the Special Victims detective said, this is clearly making you upset. It seems like I shouldn't tell you things about your

case because I don't want to upset you. And so then what that signified to me as a victim was never show emotion to law enforcement, because if you show emotion to law enforcement, then they're going to withhold vital information to you about your case. And so now four years later, I am incredible. I have a very difficult time showing emotion. I'm like still working on this in therapy and still working this with my friends, because if I show emotion, then I think that people either won't

believe me. I think that people will find me to be difficult, and I think that people will never give me information that I believe is my right. Let's take

a quick break at our back. In two thousand six, sexual assault survivor Toronto Burke started the me Too movement to lift up survivors of sexual assault, and on October fifteen, just a day after Allison's attack, actor Elissa Milano posted on Twitter, if all the women who have been sexually harassed and assaulted wrote me too as a status, we might give people a sense of the magnitude of the problem.

This call to action took off, with millions of people using the hashtag to share their stories online and led to the arrests of high profile abusers like Harvey Weinstein. And it was against this backdrop at the complexities of reporting sexual assault played out in real time for Allison. In April of twenty eighteen, the New York Special the New York Police Department Special Victims Division, and along with UM a couple of advocates in the city had UM

an open forum in UM a Williamsburg hotel. I remember it was the Wife Hotel and where it was, and it was on a Thursday night and I had it was my last session. I was in a rape survivor group therapy UM in a uh yeah, a survivor support group. And I literally jumped in a cab from the Financial District and took it to Williamsburg and walked in like

an hour late to this forum. And Paul Saracino, who was the Deputy Inspector of Special Victims at the time, was stood up and said to the group and basically said, you know, like, the New York Special Victims Division is here, we are here for rape victims. We have all the resources we want you to report. UM. The thing I think that it's important is that in October seen the

Harvey Weinstein news had just broke. And so my story is parallel to the research of Toronto Brokes Me to movement, And so like the day that I was getting a rape kit done October sixteenth, seventeen, is when Alissa Milano was literally using the hashtag Toronto brokes hashtag me Too. And so, as this is happening and the world is breaking open with people's stories, I'm living that in real time.

And so in April of seventeen, when this is happening, UM, Paul Saracino is on a mic and is saying like the New York Police Department is ready, like come, we are ready for you. And I they were open, the public was allowed to ask questions. And I wrote anonymously on a index card and I submitted it and UM Emily Gallagher, who at that point in time was running the Green Point Um sexual assault advocacy organization. She's now

an elected official. Thank you. UM Emily Gallagher read it and she said, UM, this is from an audience member, and she read a verbatim and the card said, UM, I have an open and active case with Brooklyn Special Victims, and I don't understand how you can stand in front of us and tell us that you are ready, you know, to meet us with resources when I can't even get my detective to answer a fucking email or answer my

phone call. And the audience like was silent for maybe like two seconds, and then just like you could hear them all take a deep breath, and then they just started to clap. And Paul Serracino, who's you know, a deputy inspector with in your police department, didn't know what to do and basically was like, come find me afterwards. I want to talk to you. And I was like, okay, this is then step of me doing another job. And I approached him and I said, I'm not ready to

tell you my name. I'm not ready to tell you my detectives name. Like I think I know what this is going to look like, but I'm not there yet.

And he gave me his card, and then two days later I emailed him and I was on the phone with him for forty five minutes, and I filed an official complaint against Maria kenyonees and then two days later my case was transferred and then I filed a complaint with the Civilian Complaint Review Board and then they came back and said that they were going to put a more efficient detective on my case, which at that point

in time they already had. I did not find that to be efficient, and as if there had been, because I mean, and this is incredibly long winded, but like Maria kenyones had lost video evidence. So like a part of my case is that I was kidnapped from Brooklyn to New Jersey. That involves going through the Holland Tunnel. New York City is a police state. There is surveillance everywhere, right, and so like there's video evidence of me in the Hall Tunnel, in the back of this man's car, there

is police evidence, or there's video evidence of me. And in Liberty State Park, which is a New Jersey state park, there's video evidence of me there. Maria Kenyon neglected to do her job and lost video evidence and a slew of other things that you know, we're done. And so I filed the Civilian Complaint Review Board UM a complaint with the CCRB and did not feel that they had done a satisfactory investigation. I then elevated that to the

I A B. The Internal Affairs UM Bureau. I did not feel that they had done a satisfactory investigation, again because how can police hold themselves accountable? And then I went to the Department Investigation and I filed a complaint against her with the d o I. And then, finally, once I felt that d o I had not done a proper investigation, because again, how can police hold themselves accountable or investigate themselves? I then made the decision to file a lawsuit against m ip D. So why did

you file that lawsuit? The reason why I wanted to file that lawsuit was because I am a white, sis queer but straight passing woman. And when I stand up in a room and say to Paul Saracino, or when I stand up anywhere at a press conference, on this podcast anywhere and I say fuck cops, my anger is going to be valid because when I say those things, I no one is going to take into account the color of my skin. I'm not going to fall into an angry black woman trope the way that I was

treated when I reported. I carry all of the privileges in the world and the amount of time and energy and mental capacity and emotional capacity that it took for me to fight and to hold the NYPD accountable it's not possible for a single mother with two children who's working multiple jobs. It's not possible for someone who was a sex worker and was sexually assaulted by a client of theirs. And I'm not gonna say that it's not possible that they don't have the capacity to do that.

But like the system is meant is not meant for us as survivors. The system is meant to exhaust us out of existence. And I decided to literally say, go funk yourself and watch me, like, try me please, because at every single turn, whatever you want to do, pile it the funk on, because there are so many people behind me who do not have the support system, because my friends are amazing who do not have the time.

At that point in time, I was gainfully employed and I had a flexible work schedule, so I could try to file a foil for what's called my d D five, which is your case file, and I could figure out how to navigate the system, which is literally impossible. And the final option was like, fuck it, I'm gonna file

a lawsuit. I want to see every single thing, every single decision making process, how you decided to put her in a position of power, all of these things show me, and so I filed the lawsuit on January twenty nineteen because I was like, we deserve better. And if this is how you're treating a college educated white woman, how the funk are you treating marginalized communities, folks who don't speak English, undocumented folks, sex workers, trans woman of color.

So I'm going to spend my privilege and do everything that I can, because while I do not believe for everyone that reporting to the police or involving police in your you know, in your sexual assault experience, might not be the best option, and I understand that, but for some people, going to the police is going to be uh something that they want. And if that's what a survivor wants to do, I want them to be treated

with nothing but dignity and respect and trust. I want them to walk into a police precinct and to be believed. The higher process has been dehumanizing and disrespectful. For instance, after her assault, Lift even charged Allison for the ride. In an open letter to the federal prosecutors who declined to take up her case, Alison recounts that they asked questions like why was she comfortable recounting her gang rape, and they asked what quote sexual positions. She recalled. There

are no sexual positions in a rape, she wrote. It's an assault. It is brutal, it is penetration by force. It is not sex. Allison continues to fight. She's sitting left and the New York Police Department, and she isn't just fighting for herself. She's fighting to make systemic changes so people who are more marginalized than she is can expect better. With everything they put you through, how do

you find the strength to keep fighting? The question that I honestly like ask myself like every single day or multiple times a day, is like who do these broken

systems benefit? Um? Because you know, like how many times I have been in the streets in front of the Supreme Court, in front of you know, the Supreme Court in d C. Or in Brooklyn or anywhere, and you know, UM during a lot of like m IPD protests, especially like last summer during UM a lot of the BLM protests, you know, is the question always like who do you

protect and who do you serve? And like that's a question that I literally have like a post it on my desk and and and it just says that because they the system and I literally mean, like any system will always tell you that they have you know, um, you know, like we serve X community. You know, we're here to protect X, we are here to etcetera. And um, that is bullshit. And they are always here. I think about it sort of like an HR in any you know, company or office space. It's like a R is not

there to protect the workers. HR is there to protect the company, and the police are there to protect themselves. Police means are some of the most powerful unions in

the country and they are there to protect themselves. And for me, it's just the idea of like it took me a while to get here, but it was when I changed my thinking from being an individual and thinking about like this happened to me, this I am an individual, this happened to me, and flipping that and thinking about this in terms of systems and thinking about the fact and I again I acknowledge that like there are community organizers, there are like black folks and organizers who have been

doing this and thinking about this for years, and a lot of that, like systemic work came from like folks of color, black folks in my life who had been doing that for years, especially like a lot of my work comes I like started in the abortion rights world, and so in the idea of like, you know, I can't think of like where I learned this, but the term of like a right doesn't mean if you can

access it. Your right to abortion does not mean jack ship if you cannot access an abortion, and so like that was one of the first times that I ever thought about something systemically, and so then it was just the idea of like when it came to me attempting to do this work and thinking about Okay, so like I walked in to a hospital, I guess it really started like when I contacted LIFT that later that night, and you know the only thing that I could do

was like open an app and like file a written complaint. And then like a couple of minutes later, I was like, Wow, I've had vaginal bleeding and discomfort and I'm looking at this map and I was taking to an entirely different borrow and state. So none of those things sit right

with me. So I'm going to call their like internal nine one one customer service, and this person on the phone is just like, Okay, well, we will refund you like nine dollars in eleven cents or whatever, but we're still going to charge you twelve dollars and eighty one cents because that's what the ride from Crown Heights to Williamsburg would have been. That was the reginal right Crown Hends,

Brooklyn Polians broke Brooklyn. And in that moment, I was like, Okay, sure, because I guess in reality, like I did get picked up in Crown Heights and I did go home to Williamsburg, but there was just like, you know, eighty minutes of you know, ride in between and twenty two minutes of a stop in a park. But shore Lift, you go

ahead and you make that profit. Got it, sure? And then you know, on Monday morning, on the sixteenth of October, when I walked into a hospital and you know, had a rape kit done and you know, talked to four beat cops and then had to carry my own rape kit because the cop forgot it on the chair in the room and I grabbed it, and then had a

police escort outside of the hospital. Walking out of the hospital with my best friend Morgan, and we're standing outside of a marked police car and we're going and I get put into a marked police car as if we are criminals, and then my rape kitch sits shotgun while we ride to the Brooklyn Um Special Victims Division and Prospect Heights and then talk to this detective and it's just, you know, when I think about it now, I just think of, like, it's been very sad when I say this,

but like this happens on a daily basis. There's so many victims, this happens to Like I was just looking at the root at the crime stats that UM New York City put out, and I think it's, uh one two one rapes have been reported in New York City so far this year, and so that's one thou people who have reported to the n ip D so far. And so then when you think about it in terms like that, and like a couple of weeks later, I got a first I got a bill for my rape kit.

And so it's just the idea of like the system is not seeing you as a person. They don't see you as a three dimensional human. They don't see you as someone who like has to hey your bills, has to raise your kids, has to exist in the world. They it's just like churning you through and So when I think about it in terms of the idea of

like I am not alone. This happened to me, but I am not alone, and in order for there to be like true change, it doesn't matter that like I called my credit card company and then they had a contact lift and like get that refund and I had a fight with Eric Schneiderman, who at that point time was the Attorney General and like a garbage human and a serial perpetrator of of abuse to get refunded from my rape kit. But like if I bang on that door and like make my voice heard and like, do

not shut the funk up. The next time that someone in billing sees this code, whatever the code is x x x y y Y, whatever it is for a rape kit, it's going to be flagged because they're gonna be like the motherfucking ass whole Alison Turker, like I, yep, okay, we don't need another person coming here and banging on our door. Okay, nope, okay, flag. No one's ever getting built for a rape kit from New York Presbyterian ever again,

got it? And I think for me, it's like that's where my strength comes from, is the idea of like I have now. I just think that like the system is fucked beyond reason and if we can just start to make like what I refer to as like relentless incrementalism, Like I want to bowldoze everything, I want to burn it to the ground, but like it's not always it's not always possible. UM. So I think it's that like really reframing my mind to think about it in terms

of systems. And then I think the other thing is like I have an incredible I like a cry thinking about it. I have an incredible, incredible group of friends. UM and uh, like literally just talking about it makes me, um, does it make me sad? I just Um, I would not be able to do this work UM without a

community that I have. UM. My best friend Morgan was with me the day that I reported and held my hand while I had a kid done UM, and our relationship has really um struggled and fractured at points, UM, but we have come back together and are even stronger now, which I think is UM like radical honesty and transparency really got us there. And just the idea that like trauma is hard and what it does to people is hard.

And I went through a phase that I call like my trauma monster phase where I was not kind to myself into my community. UM, and my community really practiced a lot of grace and compassion and patience with me. UM and friends who just like understand that it is it is impossible. It's impossible to to take on the largest police force in the country. Sometimes it is impossible to take on a billion dollar tech company. UM, like Lift hired private investigators and who like stood outside my

apartment and like would photograph me. And that's hard, you know, Like it's impossible to be told by the FBI to grow out your hair because you will be more believable if and when your case goes to trial. And that's hard. UM. But my friends are just so patient and so supportive. UM. And so that's another place that I really get my strength from. I'm so glad you have this community of supportive people to pour into you and lift you up. God knows you deserve it, and I'm I'm so happy

that you have that. My heart goes out to folks who don't feel like they have that, but my god, I'm so happy that you do. Yeah. And UM, to piggyback off of that, it's one of the reasons why I like, if I see someone on Twitter who shares their story, I will DM them immediately. I don't know them, they are a stranger, but because I am so like truly so grateful. I love the term pouring into UM because I am so grateful to have that community and I know that I would not be where I am

today without it. I if I see folks who are sharing their story publicly or like alluding to sharing their sharing their story, or if people in my community, like I will get a text from you know, friends or mutual friends and they'll say, hey, like, I know this person Jane Doe and she is experiencing sexual harassment, or like she's going to report and she's about to walk into a police station and she doesn't know what to

do UM. And so now you know, I am always wanting to pay it forward because I cannot fathom what it would be like to do this alone, to report alone, to be a plaintiff and a lawsuit alone, to tell friends and family like to just to have to like navigate anything and to not have support. And so it's one of the reasons why I'm like very open and I say, like my d ms are open there, you know, on my website they're as like a contact me page and like I will respond and just anything I will

dump on the phone with you. We will can get in a zoom. Um, you know, anything that I can do, because I truly, truly, truly would never want someone to feel alone, and being a survivor of sexual assault can feel so lonely and so isolating. More after a quick break, let's get right back into it. As of right now, Beteral attorneys have not taken up Allison's case and no charges have been filed against anyone for what happened to her, and she believes it has a lot to do with

being a quote difficult victim. So to this day, the state's attorney that they have not they have just declined to take up your case. Have they given you any kind of clear reasoning why that is no? And so um, it's uh not even the state's attorney. It's a it's a federal point because I mean it's again things that I only am slowly starting to learn. Um, because when you connect someone across the lines, it becomes an automatic federal offense. And so for um, my case was originally

with the Southern District of New York. They declined to prosecute. It was then moved to the Eastern District of New York, which is where it's currently sitting. UM and federal prosecutors. UM. It's been with federal prosecutors for over two years now. And UM, I think they have not given me a direct answer and they're sort of talking. Point in line item is that you know they are quote actively investigating it. UM.

I don't know what more you need to actively investigate. UM. And I think for me, UM, the way that I see it is that you know, I am, in their mind a quote unquote difficult victim. UM. I speak really openly about the perfectctive narrative. I speak really openly in case some point when I'm doing today, like I speak really openly about what it's like to navigate the system. I speak really openly about, you know, UM, misconduct by

the New York Police Department. UM, and I speak about, you know, my struggles of you know, what does justice look like? Do I want is my you know, quote unquote desired outcome of reporting, is my perpetrators being in prison? UM? You know, can you be a you know, prison abolitionist? Can you do you know, transformative and restorative justice work and also be a victim and a witness in a federal crime. Can can you hold all of those hard

things and all of those truths at once? And I think, Um, I also am someone who sort of like laughs in the face of power. Um, it's a privilege that I hold. But I'm like, great, your federal prosecutor. I don't know why you think that makes you better than me. Um. Federal prosecutors don't really like that. UM. Asked also asked

me how many funks I give? And I think that they are used to victims who will sit across the table from them and being like, I'm so grateful to you, thank you so much, whereas I will sit across the table from them and be like, you're doing your job. No one applauds for me when I do my job, um, And I think it's the idea of like, I believe and envision and work towards a world where shoutout Sabrina Hearsisa. Survivors are leaders. Our survivorship is what makes us leaders.

And we are not charity cases. We are not numbers for your end of your report, like we are the people at the center of everything, including if we decide to file criminal charges, like we are the ones who get to decide things. Fine, the Constitution is a thing, I get it, like it's important, but like it was founded on white supremacy and we should just abolish that

ship right now. And so to me, it's just the idea of like, federal prosecutors should be open and honest and transparent and not gate keep information about our cases from us. We should not be like wandering around our apartments and wondering, like what's the status of my case? Who are the detectives on my case? What is the statute of limitations and what is it going to run out? Like I wonder like am I going to have to write a victim impact statement one day? What is the

likelihood of me going to trial? Like all of these questions survivors should be empowered with because we are, most often, particularly in sexual fault, we are the only victims and witnesses to the crime, and yet we are treated and diminished so deeply within the system that by the end of it, we're like, funk, this s norms. I don't want to do anything, And I think federal prosecutors are really expecting me one day to contact them and to be like I've had enough. I'm too impatient. I can't wait.

We're like every single three months, I'm going to email them and be like, Hey, what's up? What are you doing? When to jump on the phone, when tell me what's happening? I don't you know, Like, are you, like, what are the key performance indicators of being a federal prosecutor? Because right now, I my question to the Eastern District is how many other sexual assault cases are sitting on your docket that you refuse to bring to trial? Why not call a gran jury? But they don't like to be

asked questions And I love to ask questions. I Mean, that's something else that I am so taken by in terms of your story, is how many different systems you are asking. You are asking the hard questions of hospital systems, the NYPD, UM you know list, like you're you're actively suing lift right now, Like what is it feel like to be hammering to get any kind of accountability from all of these different, very powerful, very politically connected, very savvy,

very muneied systems all at once as one person. Yeah, that's an incredible question. And I appreciate you asking it. UM. I think it's the question that I just always want to ask, is like what is power? Who has it? What is hard power? What is soft power? UM? I'm always interrogating, like capitalism, let's look into it, um, you know, And I think I really love to ask like generative questions. And so the idea of asking, you know, folks at Lift and UM, you know, particularly the like folks on

the board at LIFT. Case in point, Valerie Jarrett came from the Obama White House really invested and I put your quotes invested And I'm not questioning her morals, but like really invested in um, you know, work around women and girls and gender based violence. Sits on the board of Lift has remained silent for years as they have come under fire and as we have all filed lawsuits. UM. And for me, it's just the idea of like, can

you help me understand what's happening on the inside. Can you help me understand like how you can hold these many truths at once? And I think it's the idea of I'm you know, Oftentimes people will say, you know, like Alison turcos Is, you know, she's critiquing or she's bulldozing or she just wants to like burn everything to

the ground. And the thing is like Lift has the opportunity to do incredible work, and they are you know, people use Lift to get to and from, you know, like I'm sure that like people on their way to have babies are just like ordering the lift and getting to you know, the hospital there, you know, taking um lift, you know, to have their abortions. They're taking lift, you know, They're I'm not trying to abolish Lift by any way,

shape or form. I'm just wanting to ensure that when you get into a lift that people on both sides, both like the workers and the drivers, are you know, have access to a livable wage and benefits. And so like that's something that I'm trying to cognizantly be really thoughtful about. And also that if and when someone reports a sexual assault to Lift, how are they being readd Because when I reported mine, and my last communication with Lift was I'm thinking about filing a police report. What

does this look like in collaboration with your company? And I sent that on Sunday, October fift around seven pm my time, and Lift ghosted me, and I was like, Hey, dude, what do I do? Like, do you want to follow this report? How do I do this? Let's work together. At that point in my life, I was like, let's work together this billion dollar tech company the police. Again.

I self growth a lot since then, and LIFT could not fucking respond and refuse to respond because they're like, we're not going to do this, but yet now publicly they're like, we will always, you know, work with law enforcement. We're going to do great things. And I think it's just the idea that I'm not Again, this comes from an incredible place of privilege to say this. I'm not afraid because what do I have to lose? Like what is LIFT gonna do to me? Like do you want

to take my life savings? Great, it's not that much or really anything, Like do you want to take like my dignity? There's not Like I've been sexually assaulted three times and the most recent one was a gang, right,

Like what dignity do you think that I have? And it's just the idea of like what I don't have anything left to give you because when in my opinion, I'm gonna speak from an I space, I don't want to generalize, like as a victim of sexual assault, as a victim of an aggravated kidnapping, of kidnapping a gun point, like the things that my perpetrators have said to me, the things that people who have perpetrated violence against me,

the things that people on the internet. Again don't read the comments, but like will come in and say, like, you made this up, this isn't true. You're trying to get attention. Whatever. If leadership at left or board members or shareholders or anyone want to push back against me, my question is like who do you protect and who do you serve? What do you want your legacy to be?

Because I would think that you would want your legacy to be at an organization like we helped people get from place A to place B. We're helping transportation to be safer. We're helping to do these things and not during my time on the board, we were sued by thousands of women more after a quick break, let's get

right back into it. After an investigative piece about sexual assaut by drivers pointed out that there was no publicly available data about assaults and rideshairs Lift and Uber both promised to deliver our report on those numbers now Uber actually did release their report the following year, Lift didn't, and by the time they finally published their report showing that four thousand, one d and fifty eight reports of sexual assault by drivers and writers between the beginning of

twenties seventeen and the end of twenty nine seen, it was a full three years after the deadline land set. I hate that we live in this world where you, as someone who has already been through so much, has been harmed, is doing this kind of unpaid, incredibly heavy, thankless work to to make Lift a safer platform for everybody,

kind of like against their will. Like you're doing this work of like dragging them, kicking and screaming to making their platforms safer, and they're a billion dollar tech company and you're just you, and I just it just it's

I almost kind of can't wrap my head around. But and seeing the seeing Lifts posture in public, like when they finally released their you know, very late report on sexual thoughts reported that happened in Lifts, you know, being like, oh, well, you know, of course you want to have transparency and we care about safe writers, and it just kind of erase the fact that it's it was people like you, Alison, who had to force them to put this report out late.

Might I add like it just erases or I feel like it's an attempt to erase your voice and all that you've been through because it makes their company look like woke and good and helpful. That's that's completely it. And I think also they, um, they will never outside of what I assume is like in private slack messages where you know, um, I always make a joke to my friends that I assume that you know, um, if we did like a control f and their slack messages for my name, it would just be um, you know,

a party. Um. But I I think LIFT will never ever give credit where credit is due, and I don't need credit from Lift, Like that's not what I want. Because the thing is is that so much of the work that I do is just the idea of like,

you know, it's not going to make my life better. Um, you know, I don't file a lawsuit to make my life better because I know, particularly you know, in putting my name on a being public, um, I knew that it was um for me an easy decision because in putting a name in a face to it to my trauma, it was gonna be harder for a billion dollar tech company to ignore me, but for so many other people. You know, being that public is not a decision. You know,

it's not an easy decision. UM. And I think it's just the idea that like, you know, I'm assuming them. They can't be like, oh, Alison Turcos, thank you so much for all this work that you've done. UM. But I think it's the idea of like they can never acknowledge outside of saying, you know, we had four thousand sexual assaults between but they will never call them. They're going to always refer to them as safety incidents, which

I think is UM in my opinion, like really diminishing. UM. And it's really hard because, like I, UM, I get really emotional when I talked about the report because I worked so hard for that accountability UM. And yet it feels really hard to see to have a company who at first told you that what happened to you didn't happen. Lift at first told me that, um, there was an error and that either um my driver dropped picked me up and dropped me off and then forgot to end

the ride. So then he went to New Jersey on a second ride, which the map will clearly show that did not happen. And then when I told them that, they were like, well, it must be UM a glitch and you either didn't update your phone, so it's an iOS error. So they tried to blame it on Apple. I have an iPhone and they tried to blame it on Apple. And then they said that like, there must

be some connectivity error. So they just attempted to really like gaslight me, gaslight me within twenty four hours of being can nap traffic sexually assaulted and basically say like this didn't happen, and like documented I have emails that

say like lift saying like this never happened. This is a tech error on on your end, and then fighting relentlessly to have them release a report, and then seeing a report come out on a Friday Thursday night, late Thursday night, Friday morning, and seeing that one of those

numbers from UM, I am one of those numbers. And it goes back to the reason why like I will fight relentlessly is because it just goes to show like I am one of many and like we have to fight or I we UM are fighting against a behemoth of a system and the idea for them to say that this is a safety report and that these are safety incidents UM to me, and I've said this before and I will say it again, like, this is not

a safety report, this is a harm report. They are reporting on harm and harm that they are actively complicit in and hiding UM. And yes, they could say, like we're not hiding it. This is a transparency report, but it's not UM hiding in the sense that like, if I had not filed my lawsuit, my number would not have been there. And so how many people have contacted LIFT, either through a written complaint or a phone call, and then Lift said to them, I don't think that happened.

I think that what happened is that it's probably your iOS system has has to be updated, or like, I'm really sorry that this happened to you. We're going to offer you a five dollar credit, maybe a fifty dollar credit, so it never actually gets reported. And so that is one of the reasons why I will, like again relentlessly fight to see real numbers and to see you know

what what you know. Yes, they'll show us the taxomy, but like what happens when someone calls and said I think I was just sexually assaulted by a driver, And what is the back end? What is the script that you have someone read? And the thing that feels a little bit um not great to me is that you have the sexual soul advocacy organizations like RAIN and like it's on us who partner with LIFT. And sometimes it feels like you have these organizations that are allowing LIFT

to use them to rehab their brand. And I really struggle with that because I just wish I'm like, who is truly holding them accountable? It's not Valerie Jarrett because she's sitting on their board and most likely getting paid to be on that board, and like, good for you, girl, make all your money. But like maybe let's just think

of a different way to do it. And it doesn't feel like the folks on the Safety Advisory Council at LIFT UM, which is like, uh, it's on us and a couple of other folks and Reliance and others, Like who is doing it? Because right now it feels like I'm on an island of my own UM and it it's hard sometimes UM, but yet it's like we gotta report they haven't agreed to release another one. UM, But I'm grateful that they have a report. Uber is going

to release another report at the end of the year. UM. But I just you know, UM, when you get into a ride share there is an assumption of safety. And I never want someone to go through what I went through, and I will never stop talking about it, and I will never stop holding institutions accountable because I think particularly as women, as FAMI identified folks, as queer folks, UM, particularly for communities of color. Again I am not I am white, UM, but like when you move through the world,

we are not safe. And I think that rides share companies and particularly left in UM when I got into that car, because what was happening is that the Muslim band had just passed and they were donating a million dollars to UM A sail you. They're doing campaigns of like where your better boyfriend? And to me, it's just the idea of like, I need you to just be

a little bit more honest. I need you to just be a little bit more transparent, and I need you to actually put the people who are being harmed at the center. And that means rideshare sexual assault survivors and we are more of us are starting to speak out. More of us are starting to be public and you cannot put a value on our trauma, but it would be really helpful if you would not just erase what happened to me to a safety incident, Alison, I have to tell I mean, I am like on the verge

of tears. I the I want you to know that you're not alone, and that so many people are advocating for you, people that you'll never meet, never hear from our listening to your story and thinking fuck, yes, you know where how can people what can people do to support you? What can people do to make sure that what what you just described that that is a change that we're able to create together. Yeah, it's a good question. Um,

I think you know. Um, some nice people are like, we're going to cancel lift, and I'm like, I don't think that's the answer. I appreciate that, um, but I don't think that's the answer. I think it's, to be honest, the best way to do it is like support survivors in your life, Like the lift fight is, you know, is sort of over here and is like a bucket

of work. But I think like truly, genuinely and honestly is like support survivors in your life, and like similar to what I had said earlier, in the sense of like, excuse me. If you're in a work meeting, if you're you know, at a sleepover with your friends, if you're on a call anything, be aware that there is most likely a survivor sitting next to you. Be aware that you were holding space with a survivor. UM. Be aware of the language that you use, and you know, don't

use victim blaming language, you know. And UM. The thing that I always think about, UM is if someone comes to you and shares a story with you, and that is a story of sexual assault, workplace harassment, anything, UM, there is a very likely chance that you might be the first person that they tell. And if you were the first person, how you received that and hold space for their harm is going to dramatically impact literally the rest of their life and how they choose to UM

heal from that or tell other people or seek care. UM. And I think one of the best questions to ask people is both how can I support you? And is this a feelings moment or a fixing moment? Because sometimes we have a tendency to go into fixing mode and it's just like, holy shit, a person that I love was just harmed. I want to murder this person. I'm

gonna go do this thing. I'm gonna whatever, Like we should get you a therapist, we should you know, do you want to go to this like silent retreat whatever? And instead of being like, I'm really sorry that happened, how can I support you in this moment? Provide all of the space for that person to just like b And that might be hard, and it might be difficult, and it might bring up ship for you, but that moment is not about you. That moment is about the

person who just experienced something horrible and traumatic. And then like the next words out of your mouth might be, is this a feeling moment or a fixing moment? Are you looking for me to just listen while you vent and cry and just open yourself up? Or do you want me to problem solve with you and allow that person to tell you what they need because that is

going to be instrumental. And like, honestly, that is what people can do for me, because I think for me it was um and my mom and I talked about this before, but like the first time that I told my mom about what happened in college. Her response was like, why did you wait so long to tell me? And I was like, oh not the thanks mom, love you, um, and that it just wasn't what I needed in that moment and shout out to Susan who was really done

the work and started seeing a therapist and it was great. Um. But now it's just the idea of when we hold space for survivors to be like true and authentic and their most three dimensional selves instead of being like, well, how much did you drink that night? Well, like you had had sex with him before. I don't know. Consent is fluid, It must be enthusiastic. It can be withdrawn

at any point in time. And I think, Um, the other way that folks can support me in what I mean is like support the world at large is like read survivor stories. Um, read survivor stories, listen to survivor podcasts. Um. You know, like Roxane Gay has an incredible anthology called Not That Bad, reading Chanelle Miller's book, Um, you know

there's an incredible podcast from NPR Are called Believed. Um, And like sitting with that and just really understanding and acknowledging that, like there are plethora of stories and as I said at the beginning, like there's no repeat experience, No survivor experience is ever going to be the same um and also acknowledging that like it's complicated. The survivor experience is complicated. It is never cut and dry, it

is never black and white. And once you allow yourself to just hold space and sit in the MUK with someone and like you are able to see them and to just acknowledge like this is hard and I am sorry and I'm uncomfortable right now, but I don't need to tell the survivor that. And I'm just going to be here for you, and I'm going to be a safer and support of space and anything that I can

do for you. And sometimes that might be like my best friend Morgan and I watch a lot of Grays and now I'm together, Like all I want to do sometimes you just Goenner reading the Way to Blanket and watch Grayson Anatomy and that's it. My best friend Kat and I watch a lot of Your Housewives, Like sometimes I just want to sit and like, you know, drink some wine and do that and whatever. And I think it's just the idea of like how were you showing

up for survivors? Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi? You can be us at Hello at tang godi dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangdi dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by Me bridget Toad. It's a production of iHeart Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer, Terry Harrison as our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our

contributing producer. I'm your host, bridget Toad. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. And then I have to Will wh