On election day and after, disinformation is on the ballot

I have COVID. I am joined by my producer and chief science officer, Michael to just make sure that I don't say anything wildly out of pocket and what I'm feeling so feverish. Michael, thank you so much for helping me out here. Yeah, happy to be part of it. You know, just keep a watchful eye, make sure everything stays on the right side of the science. I mean, it's funny. We were talking earlier off Mike and I

was not planning on making an episode today. Um, I partly because I am not feeling well, but also just because like there has been so much going on, you know, with Elon Musk buying Twitter, which I have really come to see as our largest and perhaps most influential digital communication platform when it comes to getting real time news, and so I guess I was just feeling a little

bit strange. Here we are on the eve of election night, where you and I are recording this on Monday evening, and I wasn't planning on doing an episode, and you know, we were talking about the election and sort of how we were thinking and where we were at, and I realized that I was actually feeling quite anxious and that I was feeling I don't know, just a lot of feelings. And you know, one of the ways that I process things is via podcasting, via having conversations with the listeners

and helping myself sort out how I'm feeling. And we figured why not bring it to the pod. So it's gonna be a little bit of a different episode, but I did want to get on the mic on this election day eve. Yeah, and thank you for having me here. I'm excited to process it with you. I it's pretty understandable to imagine that you would feel a little anxious, unsure about what's going to happen because it's a pretty

big election and also other things happening. Yeah, it's a pretty big election, and I think I had a moment of really thinking about what's at stake for so many of us, particularly marginalized people, And as someone who was a background in things like disinformation, digital communication media, I thought it might be a good opportunity to really have a conversation about the kinds of miss and discs and mal information that I am sure we are going to

be seeing tomorrow. We've already seen a lot of it up until the elections, and what we're gonna see in the aftermath of the elections, And I thought that might be a helpful just sort of level set for folks and just generally talk through some of the ways that we know inaccurate misleading content is going to be showing up in this election. And so before we start any of that, I do just want to level set on terms. I realized that I tend to throw around a lot

of terms that people maybe don't know. Maybe people do know these terms, and this is like old news, But so three kinds of inaccurate or misleading information we're gonna be talking about today are misinformation, disinformation, and malinformation. Mike, I know that you know some of those terms from your work producing our series on disinformation called Disinformed about a year ago. Are you, like, do you do you want me to to give you the definitions of those

terms just as we go forward in this episode. Yeah. Well, I've been around for a little while while you've been, uh, you know, producing these podcasts about these different types of inaccurate information, and I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on miss information being information that it's just not true, but somebody really doesn't have any malicious intent for spreading it. Uh. Disinformation, I've heard is a damn lie.

That's you. That's you. Okay, so you've been either popping into trainings I've done, because that's that's my little line about how to tell the difference between this and misinformation. Uh, misinformation is misleading information. Disinformation that's a damn lie. Somebody is trying to intentionally funk with you by lying. Yeah, right, So I've heard that a couple of times now from me, from you makes sense, nice and clear. Disinformation it's a

damn lie, got it. Malinformation is kind of a new one for me. Oh my god, I'm so glad you asked so malan from I guess you didn't really ask, but it was a question. Yeah, it was a statement masinformation. Yes, malinformation is really important. It's one that we I guess for myself. I do a lot of train things on misinformation, disinformation, health books can combat it all of that. One that I've I've only recently started adding more into the conversation

is a malinformation. Malinformation is information that is technically correct, but it's taken out of context by somebody that probably has an agenda, right, And so it's videos where the videos are not doctored. The person in the video said that thing, but that thing is then taken out of context to make some larger point that is probably misleading.

And so you can really think of it as like misinformation is if there anything like me when your mom sends you, you know, things she saw on Facebook about how if you get into your car and somebody has put a dollar bill under your under your wiper, don't touch it because that's how sex traffickers get you. And it's a new way that sex traffickers are trying to get you by putting a dollar bill on your windshield. And it also probably has fencing all on it. And

if you talk to that, you're definitely gonna die. Uh my mom, God, lover doesn't know if these things are true or not. Necessarily, it just comes on her Facebook page and she's sharing it just in case. She's not doing it out of malicious intent. She is doing it because, you know, let me just share this in case it's it's true, right, And so misinformation somebody is not trying to not necessarily trying to intentionally mislead you. Disinformation a

damn lie. They are trying to intentionally lie to you, knowingly, to spread chaos or confusion or fear. And malinformation is technically accurate content that is taken out of context or misrepresented to make a larger point that is inaccurate or misleading. So those are the sort of terms we're gonna be throwing around in this episode where we talk about some of the things that you should definitely be on the

lookout for as we go into election Stay tomorrow. Well, I appreciate that, and as the chief science officer, I appreciate that we have gone from two different types of inaccurate information to three. That feels like increase in our understanding of these lies. Yeah, I mean, I really got a shout out. Dr Joan Danovan, friend of the show.

She uses the term medium manipulation, which I think is a good one because I don't know, I feel like disinformation is almost kind of become like a buzzword a little bit where people are just the definition of it has become so watered down that it's become a little

bit of a cliche. And so she likes to use the term medium manipulation um, which also counts for things that you see on Twitter, just sort of get back to the roots of the fact that we're talking about a citizenry being manipulated via what they see on digital media and so whether you're talking about misinformation, malinformation, disinformation, that is really at the heart of what we're talking about. And so I really wanted to get into some of the things to look out for as we go into

our election day today. Um. And one, I guess the first bucket it's just sort of general I guess I'm calling it sort of the general isms racism, sexism, um, you know, homophobia, massagyny. Essentially the idea that because of someone's identity that is going to impact what kind of leader they can be. That's something that we have seen so much of in this election, I'm sorry to say, and it can be kind of difficult to see. Some of it is very blatant, but some of it is

like a little bit more difficult to see. Um. But some things to look out for that I'm we've already seen in the midterms and we're definitely gonna be seeing today on election Day. One, things like baselessly connecting black

candidates to crime or lawlessness. I saw a pretty, i guess, i'll say, horrific example of this in the North Carolina, a hotly contested race in North Carolina with a Ted Bud up against Sherry Beasley, and in an ad that Ted Bud put out, they I mean they basically all but call her at a file because Sherry Beasley struck down a bipartisan law requiring GPS tracking for child predators, a monster. I was able to hear that at It's horrific. She's she's a monster. She wants to like rape and

kill my child. I mean that ad definitely makes it seem that way. I mean, how many people has she personally murdered? It must have been dozens of children, you would think, right, Okay, So essentially this ad kind of blames Beasley for a decision from her time on the North Carolina Supreme Court, and they blame this decision on the you know, horrific attack by a three time convicted

sex offender named Tory Grady. So what actually is going on is that back in twenty nineteen, Beasley joined a four or two majority that struck down a law requiring automatic lifetime monitoring for anyone convicted at least twice for the same offense. That decision concluded that such tracking violated the Fourth Amendment and emphasized that most states do not have any sort of lifetime tracking or monitoring. And so essentially,

you know, this is from the Carolina Journal. The case was not whether or not Grady had committed the crime. It was not whether or not he deserved forgiveness. The case was about whether anyone who served his time and it was no longer even on and it was no longer even on parole or probation, could have their every move tracked and monitored and recorded for the rest of

their life, right. And so essentially Beasley joined a majority on this decision that no, it is it is not constitutional that somebody who is not on parole, not on probation, is not in the system in any way. At this point, should have their their behavior monitored for the rest of their life. And the AD really misleadingly claims that GPS tracking was instituted under a bipartisan law quote until Cherry Beasley struck it down, and that Beasley ruled that it

violated the child predators privacy. But that's just not true, right, there is that decision made, did no such thing. If you are someone who is on parole, you absolutely can be monitored and tracked by the state. Them saying that GPS tracking has been struck down, it's just not true. That's just a fabrication. And so it's one of the it's one of those situations where it is a little

bit nuanced, right, I understand what they're doing. They're completely flattening out what actually happened in this way to make it sound very scary that, oh, Cherry Beasley decided that a child predator should have their privacy protected, and that child predator went on to attack a child in a horrific way. And it's so savvy how they are able to reframe the facts and what actually happened in this way that it's just misleading. It doesn't tell the whole truth.

And I feel like it doesn't actually help North Carolina voters get a better sense of what actually happened, just completely misrepresents what happened. Yeah, that's absolutely right. That ad is really it's like a great textbook example of logical fallacies of uh, I guess, deductive reasoning. I don't know where they Obviously she was weighing in on this case that had to do with general North Carolina law and

affected the entire population of North Carolina. And whoever created this ad has chosen the single one worst case scenario of what happened as a result of that decision. And that's just so disingenuous. And there's like, if that's the criteria by which any policy is going to be judged, they will all fail. Everything will be horrible. Absolutely, And it's something that we've seen quite a bit of. I remember definitely saw this when Umtanti Brown Jackson was being

confirmed as the first black woman Supreme Court justice. But if you remember, I think it was Josh Paulie did almost the exact same thing where they were accusing Justice Jackson of being like soft on pedophiles or soft on crime because of one decision that she had made in her career, and it was like, you know, there was a whole thing where she was like, it's not my job to you know, this is it's not my job

to interpret like sentencing. That's not what I do. But the way that they're able to create I would argue a really unfair playing field for women of color, people who are originalized that they can't possibly live up to. And so this is like a very common tactic of people who are interested in kind of doing these coded attacks on marginalized people who are running for public office. You mentioned that, you know, this is particularly particular, really

weaponized against the marginalized people. Do you have other examples beyond Cherry Beasley? Yeah, I mean, I think in the way that we've seen certain buzzwords be flung around to specifically black candidates, black women in particular. You know, buzzwordsider at this point essentially just dog whistles. Biden, Warnock and Abram's are woke communists, leftists who hate this country. Okay, So something that sticks out at me about this is the use of the word the words communist and woke.

As far as I know, I don't believe that Warnock, Stacy Abrams or Joe Biden have officially endorsed communism like a very specific thing. And I also think it's interesting how they say, like, oh, woke gone laws. What does woke mean? Right? Like at this point when someone says, oh, though they're woke agenda, basically what they're meaning is that, like that person is black, they don't give you any specific you know, the thing that they think is woke.

It's just the woke agenda. And so I've definitely seen an uptick in this when it comes to black candidates where just like, oh, if you want woke policies, that's what they give. Yet, yeah, it's It was an interesting add because I feel like the actual descriptions of the policies that Biden and Warnock and I guess they she abrams. It's not really clear who the ad was against, but like the policies they were describing actually sounded pretty good,

like banning Air fifteen. That kind of sounds like a good idea to me. And there was one about like red flag laws, like yeah, maybe some people, maybe there should be occasions where red flags disqualify someone from gun ownership in an intensely concentrated, dense society. Mike it sounds like you're endorsing what we know are bow gets mental

health exams. Well, that's the thing. It's like, the actual policies were totally reasonable sounding, and it was only like they're woke, they're totally bogus, they're communists, they're far let radical left. It's like they had to just layer on these descriptors because the actual policies themselves, I believe are actually popular among most of the American people. I guess I can't speak to the Georgia electorate, but I suspect most Georgians would be in favor of some sort of

reasonable gun restrictions. I don't know most people in most parts of the country are I don't know Georgia in particular. I mean, anything sounds unreasonable if you say it like this, if you say it's communist, okay. So I have one way example for you, and this is this is an example that kind of paints me because it's an issue that boy, I hate to see how it's taken off under Gretchen Whitmer. The radicals who want a drag queen

in every classroom. So there's a lot going on in this ad One they say that Gretchen Whitmer, who is running in Michigan, wants to put quote a drag queen in every classroom. First of all, I want to go to that school queen in every classroom. So, first of all, that's not even something that Gretchen Witmer said. Michigan Democratic Attorney General Dana Nestle said that in a speech, and she was like, oh, and and she said this was in June. She said that she was joking, and it was.

It was a joke about her frustration with politicians who focus on these quote wedge issues that divide us, right, and a teacher in every classroom. You know, we don't have the funding for drag queens in there. Have you seen the makeup the outfits that heals like, it's a lot of money to put a directqueen in a classroom. Yeah, we cannot afford that. Let's just focus on teachers. So

this not even something that Gretchen Whitmer says. And and yet in this attack ad it attributes that quote that she never said to her, and even the person who did say it says they were just joking and that line was taken out of context. But even beyond that, it's clear that this ad is really trafficking and identity based attacks, right, that a vote for aggretgion wit Mere is a vote for someone who wants to quote indoctrinate

our kids with gender theory. And it's really just more of what we've seen of attacks and further criminalization on trans youth in schools. Um, which I you know, I hate that it has become a winning strategy for extremists to further marginalize a group that is already so marginalized.

Our fucking babies, our youth. Um. Yeah. And so not only does this ad include a completely incorrect attack on Gretchen Whitmyer attributing something that she never said to her, but it also is just a further attack on trans youth and anybody who would dare to support trans youth or be an ally to trans use. And it's it's meant to it's not just an attack on them. I

think it's meant to scare parents. It's meant to scare parents that people like Gretchen Whitmer, who sensibly want to be allies to trans you trans youth or support trans youth in schools are coming to pervert and attack your children and you parents should be afraid. And it's so clear to me who like what this ad is meant to do. They certainly are not talking to the parents of trans youth, you know, they are trying to pit parents of kids who are not trans against trans youth.

And I think it's just it's just disgusting. And so when we talk about sort of the kinds of isms in the attacks that I know that we're going to see more of on election date today that we've already seen in the lead up to the election, this is exactly what I mean. Yeah, it's like an ignorance based tack right Like it it attacks Gretchen Whitmer for wanting to push sex and gender theory on children, uh, but then also says boys and girls are different, I know

the difference. It's like, well, how do you know, like right, like maybe there's some theory behind the difference, Like why is it so taboo to even talk about gender If it's like so crucial to you that this dichotomous gender exists, Why is the very idea that somebody might like talk about it and you know, apply some evidence to inform theories of what it is. Why is that so deeply threatening exactly, and I I mean, lady, maybe you're not a doctor, and maybe you should shut the funk up.

But that's like what I'm like whenever, whenever I hear that, I'm just like, maybe you don't know anybody who is trans. Maybe you don't have any kind of educational background or expertise in this. Maybe you have no idea what you're talking about, and you should just stop talking about it. Like like, I'm to the point on this now where I'm like, why are you positive? Like why are you one fucking television talking about trans youth? Like like, what

do you even know about it? Right? Like why are you attacking the very idea of talking about it, investigating it, understanding what gender is? It's yeah, it's revealing. What's so funny? You're You're right on the money. What's so funny? Is it? It's like in that ad, she's like, I don't think that we should be talking to our kids about gender, but I do believe that that boys and girls are different, and that's very important to me. Yeah. So that so,

which is it? Which is it? Right? Either gender is this important thing or it's not an important thing. It's obviously an important thing. Maybe we should teach kids about it exactly. Yeah, But again, we we digress. Let's stay focused on the election, what we're going to be seeing on election day. Let's take a quick break at our back. So another topic that frankly, I I guess I feel comfortable saying should not be quote divisive. I don't think that just the existence of trans youth trying to live

their lives should be divisive. But here we are. Another topic that I know that we're going to be seeing a lot of disinformation and misinformation and our information around is abortion. We have already seen incumbents who are up for the election really backtracking on their records on abortion. I can absolutely understand why they are very invested in misrepresenting they actually stood when it comes to row and protecting abortion rights, because it's incredible, because it's incredibly their

their stances are incredibly unpopular. Right, So, like we've seen UM folks who are running for re election talk about how like, oh, well, you know, it really just sent the issue back to the States. Things like that, trying to point people who are interested and invested in protecting

abortion rights trying to paint us as the extremists. UM we've seen candidates who are supportive of abortion access being accused of quote partial birth abortions or quote late term abortions, which I always say this, those are not real terms. They are not medical terms. They are terms that are completely made up by anti abortion extremists. So in Oregon, Oregan Right to Life sent mailers making claims about what

they call quote late term abortions. In Oregon, there are a flyer that they sent out attacked Democratic candidate for the Senate, Mark Meek, who has been endorsed by a Planned Parenthood, And the flyer has a picture of a baby and it says babies have to watch their backs. Radical Mark Meek wants to allow late term abortions right up until the moment of birth at taxpayer expense. Everything about that isn't correct, Like nothing nothing in that statement

is true. Late term abortions isn't a thing that's that's not a real medical phrase. I feel like Pete Bouda Jag nailed this when he went on TV a while ago, and he pointed out that like when you talk about somebody who's having an abortion at that period, it's because they intended to carry it to term and something terrible has happened. Nobody is choosing to terminate their pregnancy at a late state like that, Yeah, you are a thousand

percent correct. And the fact that this mailer frames it as if Mark Meek endorses that, he's like, oh, I think that you know, you should be able to Yeah, it is like not happening, and I understand what they're doing.

It makes it makes someone who maybe doesn't know much about like like, if you're like a low information vote on the issue, you might not have thought about the fact that like somebody having to terminate a pregnancy at the moment of birth, like what that what the circumstances would actually be around that, Maybe you haven't thought about it. They're making it seem as though doctors are essentially delivering babies and then killing them like out of the vagina

into the garbage. Correct, So I think that you know, the organ Right to Life who put together these mailers are just banking on people not really thinking through what the circumstances would actually be for someone who would need to terminate a pregnancy right up to the moment at birth, and that they're banking on them thinking, oh, that person is you know, they're banking on them having in consely negative reaction, and it just makes me sad because like,

where is the empathy, Where is the empathy for someone who would actually be in that situation when it comes to abortion disinformation ahead of the midterms and in the midterms, the thing that gets me is that we've allowed both candidates electi officials and in some cases are media not you know, fringe media, I mean like mainstream media outlets to frame abortion as this divisive issue where you know, we have to do both sides because you know, people

disagree when the reality is that of Americans are supportive of abortion access. There is not a pocket of America anywhere where the majority of people are anti abortion, even in deep red states. It is not a divisive issue. And the people who are against a protecting abortion access, they are the extremists. They're the ones who are widely out of step with the will of the majority of

the people. And that's why you see elected officials having to really lie about their stances on this because they know that those dances are are wildly unpopular. They know that most people do not agree with those stances, and that the only way that they can even talk about them in a way that would not have them like run out of office is to lie and the misrepresent them.

And so I can understand why we see these folks backtracking on their records saying like, oh, we're just leaving after the States, because if they were to say the truth, which is that like we're attacking abortion access, they know that that's not what people want. That is not what Americans want. It is non divisive issue. Whoever decided to frame it that way really pulled a snow job on

all of us because it's just not it's just not true. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right, and I think the math changed underneath them in a really big way where it's their position has always been unpopular, right like most Americans, I believe, since the beginning of America until now, have

been support of abortion rights and access to abortion. Most people support it, and so like people who starting in the seventies decided that it was going to be a winning wedge issue for them, they've always had that difficult challenge of trying to sell an unpopular opinion, and it worked for them because it was intensely motivating to the subset of the population who like really intensely cared, and the majority of the voting populace UH did not have

the same intense feelings. And now, following the Dobbs decision, UH, they suddenly realized that they can't just continue to speak to this small group in these impassioned, over the top ways to like rile them up, because they realized that a much wider segment of the population is now listening, and that wider signment of the population wants abortion access.

That's something that it's just always been a given in society for like thousands of years, and it's just this recent cadre of right wing assholes who realized that they could like win some elections by pretending like it's some radical position, which it obviously isn't. Yeah, people need to have abortions. It's just just, yeah, we live in a society. People need to have abortions. I'm sorry that people don't like it, but like that's what it is. People need

to have abortions. People are gonna have abortions. People been having abortions. Just let people sort out their own ship more. After a quick break, let's get right back into it. So let's talk more about some of the miss and disinformation. I know we're going to be seeing today on election day about voting more generally. Um one, it's just sort of spreading fear, particularly fear to black and brown folks and marginalized voters. You know, every election year we see

you know, oh, people are being arrested at the polls. Oh, a picture that purports to show ICE agents doing arrests of undocumented folks at the polls. Oh. I always see the little thing that's like, oh, they're checking for outstanding warrants or child unpaid child support payments at the polls. Clearly, these are tactics meant to scare black and brown voters.

And they're so savvy because they're clearly tactics that play into the very like rightful fear and baggage and trauma that black and brown folks have around being criminalized in the United States. And so what's so fucked up is that oftentimes with disinformation and misinformation, it's it is the reason why it works is because there's a grain of truth to it. There is one aspect to it that is accurate, and that one aspect is sort of blow

out of proportion or like misrepresented. And so it makes me so sad because in reality, we know there are

states where black and brown voters are being criminalized. Right in Florida, Folks with felonies on their records who were told that who thought that they could vote, went to register to vote and then the police showed up at their door for voter fraud, right, And so we know that that happened, and we know that that is clearly meant to create a climate where folks who might have felonies on their records, folks who have so there there, you know, served their time, paid their death society are

unclear on what's happening and are maybe just afraid. And so I have to give it to the santists that it is such a savvy move to put fear in the heart of people who are just trying to exercise their civic duty of voting. And I mean, if you were someone who had a felony on your record and you weren't sure whether or not you could vote, you feed these viral videos of folks, black and brown folks

who thought they could vote. We're told they could vote, We're given the paperwork to vote, and then we're arrested. I could understand why that would keep you from voting. I could understand why that would keep you from the polls. And it's sad to me that when I talk about sort of the lies around black voters being criminalized, that folks like the Santists have gone out of their way to make sure that that continues to be based in reality, to make sure that that that that continues to have

that bit of truth. And we they deserve so much better than leaders who are going to exploit our traumas and baggage and anxieties as marginalized people living in this country that are so real for us. But this is what we have. Yeah, it's so disgusting and and sad

to see people's right to vote attacked. And like you said, there's like a germ of truth in all successful disinformation campaigns, and there's more than a germ of truth in the idea that like black and brown people have not had the easiest time voting in the United States, right, Like, there's definitely like the right to vote was just categorically denied to black people for the first hundreds so years of the United States, and ever since then, it's been

a fight. It's a constant fight. It's a fight in this election, and it's just so dispiriting, uh to me, and I can only imagine it's even more dispiriting to others. But it's like, this is the core part of what it means to be like a participating citizen in republic is like you get to vote, You get to have a say in who leads the the county Highway Department or like the state dot or like whatever, or like the governorship or the presidency or like passes the laws

in Congress. You get to have a say. All the citizens get to have a vote, and to attack that and undermine it is so antithetical to the whole enterprise. And it's I guess it's like not surprising because they're so disingenuous and so hypocritical, but it and it's almost like it feels expected at this point, like, oh, well, of course Republicans are going to try to suppress the vote of like black and brown people and young people,

like that's just like what they do. But like it's really like cuts to the core of American democracy being at risk. Well, that's I that's one of the reasons why I even wanted to have to do this episode tonight, because I think I was just coming to terms with the weight of that feeling of that it feels I didn't Maybe this is gonna sound pollyanna ish. Only in the last few years have I come to realize how

tenuous and fragile democracy is. And you know, seeing these these poll les about how little and who knows about polls, But I saw a couple of polls that were, like, people are interested in economic issues and they're not interested in like protecting our democracy and speaking just for myself. I don't know how anybody doesn't see those two things as linked. I don't know how anybody doesn't see like just the ability to be a person who is free to try to make a better life for themselves, free

to try to start a family on their terms. When they say how they say, free to raise that family safely in a safe community, with access to you know, accessible health care and food. Like, I don't see how like to me those things are the then diorhem as a circle that democracy in living in a living in a democratic state also means it is also connected to being able to be free to exercise your democratic will and fucking raise your family without without fear of Yeah,

just being able to raise your family. I see those things. I mean, like I feel like I'm like spinning out talking about it, but reading polls that are like, oh, people don't care about abortion, they care about putting food on the table. And economic issues. People don't care about democracy, they care about putting guests in their car. I see those things as all the same to me. If I don't have body autonomy and people don't see that as part and parcel to economic freedom, what are we doing?

If I'm not able to go vote free of lies and legit violence, political violence, what are we doing? And so I see that, like all these ways, that the fabric of what it means to live in a healthy functioning democracy is being so pulled apart, and I see all the little threads and it scares me. I'm scared. I mean, I'm usually I usually try to be like optimistic and hopeful on the show, and generally I am.

But I am scared and I hate that. I mean, I I'm you know, me, I'm not someone who is like very interested in electoral politics as the end all be y'all. But how the fund did we get here where the only path to liberation is like at this point, all we can do is fucking vote, Like if it's voting for the lesser of two evils, do what you gotta do. I want so much better for us, But it's it's do you know what I'm saying? Like it

feels scary. It feels like we are It feels like something has been pulled apart and we are trying to scotch tape it back together. It is scary times. I wish I had some nice words to make it less scary. Uh. Yeah, it's tenuous, it's weird. Make it all better, Mike, No. And on the eve of this election, you know, I just like there's a Winston Churchill quote that I think about all the time about how democracy is the absolute worst form of government except for all the others, and

actually pretty good. It's pretty good, and I think it's accurate. Like it, it's so stupid. We're stuck in this union with all these imbeciles who hate the idea of unionism, and yet here we are. It's difficult. I don't know that there's an answer. I think we're all just like trying to get through it. It's best we can. People listening or like, why did I tune into this. Now, I'm bummed out you asked me to be on this episode. I know, I know, I know. If I want to

bump everybody out, let's bring Michael Lamotto on the podcast. Yeah, all, I see your risks. No, it'll be fine. Everything is going to be fine. Well, let's I do want to talk about So it's election day. I do want to just sort of talk about what we are likely to see on election day and beyond. That's why people tuned into this episode. Let's get to that. I know, I'm yeah, I have COVID. I'm sorry. Let's take a quick break.

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It's super quick, I promised. Just go to Tangoti dot com slash I R L. You can vote every day, and y'all, I don't know if this sounds bad to say, but I kind of really want to win, So please vote. That's tango D T A n G O T I dot com slash I r L and thank you. It means so much to me. And we are back just talking about some things to look out for in terms of this and miss and malinformation on and after election day.

And a big thing that we really have to talk about on election day and after election day is people saying that because it's taking a long time to count votes, that that is somehow evidence of voter fraud or a stolen election. Now, I've already seen a lot of this happening so far, and I need to be really clear. It has always taken a long time to clount votes in elections because of things like the increased use of

mail in ballots and early voting. In some places, counting votes cannot even start before polls closed thanks to Republican legislation. So in a lot of legislatures, it is very much by design that it takes a little bit of time to count the votes. And people who say this, I would argue that they're actually just lying, because anybody who has worked in politics, political media, news media for a few years, they know that it is totally normal for it to take a while for all the ballots to

be counted and to have a definitive winner. That is not a surprise. If you're somebody who hasn't followed a lot of elections or hasn't followed a lot of this very closely, that's completely fine. You might not know. But the people who go on Fox News and say that it's out of the ordinary that it takes a little while to account votes, they know that's not true, and they're deliberately lying. In this election, we already know that

we're going to see contested elections and contested races. You're going to see it taking a little bit of time to count votes in certain places, in certain races because of things like mail in ballots. Because of that like weird, nebulous time. That is the kind of time where like bad actors can really run wild. You're gonna see a lot of claims about voter fraud or election fraud, and and they seem to be like super clear, there is no widespread voter fraud in the United States. End of sentence.

There might be voting irregularities, sure, perhaps those are never to the scale to actually impact an election. It just does not happen. And so I hate, as much as I hate Trump and his presidency, something that I cannot believe that he actually got into the lexicon that stuck with this idea of like, oh, count every legal vote. Like I remember when Ivanka Trump tweeted that, like this

shouldn't be controversial, count every legal vote. It's so insidious how it makes it seem as though there are lots of So if you're saying count every legal vote, yeah, it sounds totally reasonable when you first say it or when you first hear it, but you're making it seem like there are lots of illegal votes, and that's not true. So it's it's already kind of grounded in a situation

that is not happening. And so I know that we're going to see We've already seen so many claims about like, oh, it doesn't take a long time to count votes, like there are something funny is going around. Don't I know that you're gonna see it. I've already seen some of it. I hate that this has become part of our national understanding of the voting process because it's just not it's just not reflective of reality. There is no widespread voter

fraud in the United States. If anybody was gonna find it, it it would have been Trump in and he didn't find it, So there's not any there. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. We're going to see so many claims about voter fraud, uh, people like making cases to various courts. It's just these people have had the past two years to just be like stroking their heart ons and thinking about how they're going to like yell voter fraud this time around, and so they're gonna be out there. They're

gonna be doing it. Yeah, They're gonna be doing it everywhere that they possibly can. They're probably gonna burn Arizona to the ground and immediately burned because they have no water anymore. It's gonna be everywhere, though. It's gonna be everywhere. And that's kind of my point of making this episode is that you were talking about burning Arizona to the ground, and I know you're kidding, but well, to be clear, I suggested that they were the Arizonans were going to

burn in the ground. I was not suggesting that anyone else go there and burn it to the ground. It was a lament, not a threat. Oh, I shouldn't go to Arizona and burn of town. You should not know. There are no threats. I'm not making any threats to Terris. Let me cancel my flight here. You know, I'm kidding. I'm just concerned for their well being based on some of the people inside the house. Well, so you know we're kidding. But we are in this very weird time

where ship is just weird. You know. Election officials have been warning for the last few days of election related violence on election day and after um, which is scary and makes me so sad that that's just where we're at. Conspiracy theories about stolen elections and voter fraud have translated to extremist groups getting trained to become quote pole watchers, which basically means they just harassed and intimidate voters and

poll workers at the polls. Elon Musk owns Twitter they've got a new pay eight dollars to get verified verification process rolling out stuff is just weird, And so I think in this moment where things feel weird, tenuous, scary, like all of the things. The question is like, what can we do? And I would say this, I mean, this is the spiel I always give. But one, whatever you do, don't share or amplify misinformation, even if you're trying to like debunk it, make a joke of it,

point out like, look at this incorrect information. If you're on a platform where you can report it, report it. But nine times out of ten, if you engage with incorrect information, you're just gonna help it spread. That's true for pretty much anything. And so if you see something that is extremist or like a really bad tweet, don't engaged with it. Um, don't share things just in case.

We had an interesting situation during early vote where somebody shared that like, oh I heard from a friend that if your ballot has writing on it, then like a signature on it, that it's going to be avoided, and the election that the county election official had to post on Facebook saying, actually, we are legally required to sign each ballot, and so like if we sign it, that's

like that's actually required of us. And so don't share things, even if you're sharing them, just in case that you cannot verify that they're correct, and instead focus on sharing positive, accurate content about the election, the candidates, the the the you know, issues and the causes that you're that are motivating you to vote you It is going to be so much better if you focus your time on spreading that kind of information that is accurate and timely and

positive and helpful, rather than engaging with information it's not true. And also if you want a little extra, you can come to a training that I am doing with the organization Women's March. It is virtual, it is on zoom. It is the Wednesday after election day. It is free. I would love to hang out with y'all there and talk disinformation and the election. I will put the information

to join in the show notes. But yeah, you want a little if you're gonna be like me on Wednesday, probably feeling a little anxious, come hang out with me on Zoom on Wednesday evening. Hopefully wed I mean hopefully I won't be feeling like feverish with COVID, but also hopefully I'll be feeling better. And then just a couple of like random things I want to throw out there.

As our digital communications platforms like Twitter become more and more interesting, will say now and given that like all the stuff is happening with Twitter while an election is happening, digital hygiene is going to be more important than ever. So if you're listening to this, please please please turn on two factory identification. It is a small step that you can take to protect yourself as this like verification stuff rolls out. We don't know how it's gonna be.

I don't really have any insight on how it's gonna work. All I know is I would not be tweeting if I did not have two factor authentication. So please enable it. I mean, it's such a weird. It's a weird to even talk about it, because this is such untrited territory. Usually I would say, like, oh, check to see if there's a verified check mark, But I don't know if

that's great advice anymore for Twitter. So just do. If you're gonna be sharing stuff on social media about the election in terms of results and races, just check before you share. I have been fooled before, and I do this for a living. They get the best of us. Just make sure that you're checking, and just generally stay calm, you know, like, let's take comfort in each other. Right, No things are weird right now you might be feeling and I'm definitely feeling it. You know, rushing to share

things on social media doesn't help anybody. Take a minute, take a beat, check your sources. Let's just try to lean into the comfort of the collective that we all have together. And I guess that would end by saying like, this episode is weird. I feel weird. I have COVID also, But you know, I just want to say, like, we deserve a functioning, healthy democracy. We deserve a healthy media ecosystem. We deserve to have platforms that are that amplify accurate, honest,

timely helpful information and not extremism and lies. We deserve to have leaders running those platforms who are not complete man children, who are transparently looking for sycophants and adoration and lashing out at any criticism they get, even though they're really embarrassing and super easy to make fun of.

And they let Azelia Banks live in their house for a while and that didn't turn out well because they're not smart people, and they are really invested in people thinking they're really smart, even though they're not talking about Elon musk Um. We deserve better, We deserve better that's all I'm saying. It's like, I hate that we're in a situation where we have to like be working so hard at creating the creating things that we deserve for ourselves. Frankly,

you know we don't. We we deserve better, and I want better for us. But I guess this is my plea for voting. You know, please vote? Why would people not vote? Like? Why why would somebody not vote? Because there is an entire well moneyed, effective machine invested in telling people that both can't all parties are the same. Your vote doesn't matter. No party is looking out for you. They are invested in in having everybody just check out of the of the democratic system, just check out of voting.

And so I don't shame people who don't vote, because I know there is like an entire well moneyed system invested in you being like it doesn't matter both parties are the same. It's so much noise, I say, out

of politics, who gives a ship? But there's so much at stake that even if you feel that way, just do it as a personal favor for me, please at this point fair, All right, Well, thank you Bridget for taking the time to take us all through this little list of what to expect from the election returns tomorrow. I know you've got COVID. I hope you rest up after recording this. Um. I know that I fought tooth and nail to prevent you from having to record this.

But the executives that my heart were like, we need Bridget, don't say that episode for the election, So thank you for doing it. No, this was all volunt terry, and we're gonna have to do a heavy edit on this because I feel like I sound ridiculous. No, well, thanks for fting me on. Thank you listeners for listening. Uh yeah, Bridget, thanks for for doing the thing take us out. Thanks thanks for being her Mike, and thanks to all of you for listening. Oh. I hope this episode doesn't sound awful.

I'm sorry in advance. Sorry, sorry for making you listen to this. I got a story about an interesting thing in tech. I just want to say hi. You can be just at Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangodi dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget tod It's a production of I Heeart Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Strictland as our executive producer. Tara Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almato is

our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. H