There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this is There Are No Girls.
On the Internet.
Welcome to the brand new season of There No Girls on the Internet, where we explore the intersection of technology, social media, and identity. And this is our first iteration of our weekly news roundup of our new season. We're bringing you stories you might have missed this week, and another big first, we have our first ever guest co host for our roundup, the Amazing, the Wonderful that Like Media, Maven Kristen Conger of Unladylike Media. Kristin, thank you so much for being here.
Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be the first.
I think of you as kind of like a like a virtuoso. You are the co author of the book Unladylike, a Field Guide to Smashing the Patriarchy and Claiming your Space. Awesome title, most of two great podcasts, Conspiracy she wrote and Unladylike. We're in the middle of a series called Gender War Games. What is that? For folks who don't know?
Yes, so for anyone who has missed it, we right now are kind of living in this uncanny valley of various forms of gender panic and honestly, gender war games is partly like my own excuse to talk to like smart feminists about all of these this wild gender and anti gender discourse happening right now. So if you're feeling kind of spun out, come get some contexts gender war games.
Come find out why.
Well, speaking of finding out, why, are you ready to dive into some news that folks might have missed this week?
I'm so ready.
Okay, So we got to start with an update on my girl. I have talked about her on the podcast few times because I'm fascinated. But we have an Elizabeth Holmes update. Are you familiar with Elizabeth Holmes?
I mean, how could I not be? I should have worn a black turtleneck.
In honor and like spoken in a weird, fake deep voice to signal that you're like a serious tech person. That's my Elizabeth Holmes voice.
It's good, it is good.
Elizabeth Holmes, the disgrace CEO of the scam blood testing company Faranos, who is now in prison for defrauding investors because her blood testing was all a scam. Anyway, So Weed just recently found out what her husband is up to these days, and that is, you know, securing the family business, you know, the scam family. He is securing funding for a brand new blood testing startup company that he is launching.
My mouth fell on the floor when I read that.
Yes, I mean, if there's one thing these people have, it's the audacity, you know, really no no bounds. So, according to The New York Times, her husband Paul Evans, is raising money for a company called Hemanthus, which means blood flower in Greek. And apparently it's already accumulated millions of dollars in funding. Who would give these like at this point, like, if you're giving this person your money, you get what you get.
Like come on, yeah, I think that you you should be there should be an extra tax, Like you should have to give that money away.
Totally agreed. So this company says it is the future of diagnostics and a radically new approach to health testing and will use AI to test blood and other bodily fluids like so i'va and urine for diseases. So it sounds like just like theorhanose, but instead of just blood, it's also other bodily fluids.
What is this couple just you know, are they just really fluids? You know what?
And I don't want to follow up answer. I'm so so sorry, I asked.
So the cut really called this out, saying that it's basically the same company that you've had a photo of the new company's prototype, which looks suspiciously like Aaronos's now defunct testing machine. They write, anyone else experiencing deja vu to the company. Here's what they had to say. They were like, we know this looks bad, but trust us on X they wrote, quote, we're Hymanthos. Yes, our CEO,
Billy Evans is Elizabeth Holmes partner. Skepticism is rational. We must clear a higher bar, so we will communicate directly the unfiltered truth, no intermediaries. We prefer to build first, talk later. The science, when ready, will stand on its own merits. But we feel compelled to introduce ourselves because
of the recent media coverage. And yeah, I just really I almost almost kind of have to respect it, Like I wish I had this confidence to go not just into a health testing company, but specifically going into a company that tests blood, just like Baronos did. Like you
almost have to respect it. So I do have a question, which is that if they are a mayor couple, is it possible that Holmes could one day be profiting from this new blood testing company, because you know, it could be marital property since he started this company after they
were already married. I don't know the answer to this, but I am very curious, Like I don't necessarily like a dynamic where she is revealed to be defrauding investors with a blood scam and then gets to make money from blood testing later on.
Well, and also with the added bonus of not having to wait until she's home from prison because her husband.
Is just at home cooking up what's it called hymantheus hamanthea.
It's also terrible made.
So maybe we shouldn't be worried.
Yeah, And I mean, whenever we talk about Holmes, I do like to just remind folks that she is responsible for like actual harm. Her blood scam told a woman who was prone to miscarriage that she would never be
able to have children. It told somebody that they were HIV positive, and this person could not afford to get like an action blood test for some time, and so like had to just wait while they accumulated enough money to like get another blood test that told them like no, no, you actually you don't have HIV and also misdiagnosed somebody is having cancer. And so Holmes basically says that none of this should disqualify her from running similar kinds of
health test and companies. In fact, to this day, she maintains her innocence and says that failure isn't fraud, even though like, yeah, she might have defrauded some people, but like, come on, it's just business.
Wow.
And while Holmes might not be directly involved in her partner startup, she does say that her days working in health tech are far from over, and in fact, she's already working on patents from prison. She says, there is not a day that I have not continued to work on my research and inventions. I remain completely committed to my dream of making affordable healthcare solutions available to everybody, which like girls keep them at this point, I don't let me need them.
I just have to say, bravo. That was I mean, that was a beautiful you put me. I felt like I was in the boardroom with Elizabeth.
Oh my gosh, I've been doing that voice for the longest step. When the dropout was being released on Hulu, I was like watching it, like like I was like very into it. I have been mimicking her voice for a long time. I feel like I feel like it's like in my in my repertourna.
You drop into it seamlessly.
Thank you, thank you.
Let's take a quick break at our back.
Okay, so we have to talk about this recent news with the Federal porn band. Are we at the making all pornography a federal crime stage of Project twenty twenty five. Potentially one of the projects stated goals was to permanently criminalize all pornography, and now Mike Lee, a Republican Senator from Utah, has introduced a bill that would do exactly that.
Lee recently introduced the Interstate Obscenity Definition Act or IODA, which would effectively criminalize all pornography nationwide by legally redefining what it means to be obscene in a way that virtually includes all visual representations of sex. According to the bill, quote a picture, image, graphic image, file, film, videotape, or other visual depiction of any media that quote appeals to the prurient interest of innudity, sex, or excretion would be
considered criminal. So, like people are pointing out that, like that could mean Game of Thrones episodes, right, Yeah.
I mean also, it's been a long time since I took my mass com law class, but I feel like we've kind of like constitutionally supreme court wise, we've.
Been around the block.
Yeah, So Lee Lee addresses that he says obscenity is not protected by the First Amendment, but hazy and unforceable legal definition have allowed extreme pornography to saturate American society. How to reach countless children, Our bill updates the legal definition of obscenity for the Internet age, so this content
can be taken down and it's pedlars prosecuted. So one of the things that we talk about on the show a lot is like, if when you hear someone using language that is like we need to do xyz to the Internet to protect children, your Spidey senses should sort of tingle, because that is exactly the language that people who want to restrict the Internet use before taking some
like draconian action. Because what happens when the powers that be decide that content related to the existence of trans folks or queer folks or any other kind of LGBTQ person is pornographic and thus needs to be like legislated off the Internet, and it's it's peddler's put behind bars, you know. Like most rational people, I also want to
keep explicit content away from kids. But research is super clear that when you restrict the Internet through things like verification laws that verify your age or like laws where you you have to show your government idea to access certain content, that is not effective, that does not effectively keep kids away from explicit content. So all you are really doing then is like setting the stage for extremists to have the power to legislate anything they don't like off of the Internet.
Exactly.
And it's fascinating that it's the same group of people who are now pushing for an extreme kind of anti porn band while also celebrating social platforms removing censorship.
It exactly makes sense.
It makes no sense, and it's one of those things that like, if you follow the thread, their argument completely falls apart. So speaking of platform moderation and what is and is not allowed on platforms, I am so sorry everybody. We have to talk about Kanye West, folks who have been listening to the show for a while, know that I had kind of a like Kanye West like me paying attention to him funeral where I was like, I'm just I'm leaving him in the past. I'm moving forward.
But so I am like loave to talk about this man. But what's happening with his new song really says more about the state of Facebook's moderation than it says about Kanye himself. So if you've not checked in with Kanye in a while, he's making new music. He is hanging out with like the worst of the worst Z list
extremist internet personalities. They will do these like live streams from their hangout sessions and it just looks grim like it looks like something out of a David Lynch film where there they'll be like in a beautiful waterfront mansion and then it's just like all these goons wearing all black, like it's just a It just as a very weird vibe and the vibes look terrible when there, I guess, let's put it that way. So Kanye released a new song.
The song is called I'm going to call it Smiles Schmidler. That is not what the song is called but what you're thinking that is the name of the song, right, you feel me?
Gotcha? Gotcha taken up?
So yeah, I just did. Our producer Mike and I had a whole conversation. I was like, I don't even really feel comfortable like saying the name of the song on Mike. I don't want there to be like audio of me saying this. So yeah, well college Schmele Schmitler. But you know, you know what it is, and yeah, the song it sounds exactly like what you're thinking it is. It's all about how the trials and tribulations of Kanye
West's life have turned him into a Nazi. Now, most streaming platforms and social media platforms will not allow a song called Schmeile Schmitler where the chorus is schmile Schmitler over and over again on their platforms. Right except Instagram, as it turns out, because according to a reporting from four or four media major shout out to them. They've been like, really on this story, the song is all
over Instagram, they right. While other social media sites and streaming services rush to scrub Kanye West's pro nazi song from their platforms, the curious or enthused can find memes, remixes, and unedited audio of West's new song all over Instagram. And I mean it's as if that's not bad enough. This is like exublicitly against Instagram's platform policies. In fact, Nazism is one of the only specific groups that Meta
calls out by name in its own rules. In the current version of its Community Standards Policy regarding Dangerous Organizations and Individuals, the company says it will remove any content that promotes Nazis, saying, quote, we remove content that glorify, support, or represents ideologies that promote hate, such as Nazism and white supremacy. But for four found that there are reels that use this song that have over one million views.
There's one reel that calls it quote the Song of the Summer, which, FYI, I'm pretty sure it's not right. Do you wait well side question? Do you have any like potential candidates for the actual song of the Summer?
Oh my gosh, no, not off the top of my head, what about you?
I had to look it up, and I will admit that, like in the list, I felt very old because I was like, oh, half of these songs, I know, I know, I.
Was like I need to go do my millennial homework.
I know, trust me, if you like me, there's no shame of admitting, Like, we'll put some lists in the show notes. Let me, I will be honestly like I was, like, I don't know half of these songs. I'm gonna say it's Luther by Kendrick Lamar and Sizza or like Charlie XCX or something like that. But like, I know one thing is for sure, and it's not Smiles Schmidler. That is not the song of the summer.
Absolutely not well, And so you mentioned that this was getting traction on Instagram.
What about Facebook or is it just limited to Instagram at this point?
That is a great question. I my sense is because Instagram and this this is my sense. My sense is because Instagram is much more like short form video heavy ie. I would bet it's showing up there more than Facebook. But I need to look into That's actually a very good question.
I just assume if it's if it's something bad, it's gotta be on Facebook too.
I don't know. Don't even get me started. Like if Facebook has zero haters, I am dead. I'll just put it that way. There are like number one Borce platform around here, and so like, if folks are wondering, like how is this song showing up on reels, it is showing up in like the grossest ways that you can imagine.
One reel depicts a white dude in khaki pants dancing to the song in front of a glowing, spitting swastika, and the caption reads white Dad's getting turned to Kanye's new song at the summer barbecue flame emoji, which I read is like a pretty clear reference to the Holocaust, And that one reel has been viewed almost a million times. The account that shared it describes itself as a quote race realist and meme guy. In the bio, much of the content is memed up clips of avowed white supremacist
Nick Fuentez. So like it's very explicitly and overtly dealing with like Nazism, white supremacy. Like they're not taking they're not like they're not being like an obscure about that. Like that's like very clearer. And if that's not bad enough,
I think to add insult to injury. Facebook when asked about this, they honestly like speak to us like we're stupid because four four actually reached out to Facebook and like ask like, why is this kind of content allowed on your platform even when it's explicitly disallowed by your policy, like called out by name, and their response is very frustrating. They said, we recognize that users may share content that includes references to designated dangerous organizations and individuals in the
context of social or political discourse. This includes content reporting on neutraally discussing or condemning dangerous organizations and individuals or their activities. So the kind of reels that four or four media found, those are not neutral, They are not neutrally discussing, They certainly are not condemning. But the ideology being talked about in this song, if anything, like some of them are maybe making fun of that, you can maybe argue that, but most of them are pretty queerly
and explicitly celebrating it. And so like, why even make a rule that exuplicitly names and bans the glorification of Nazism if you're not going to actually abide by it.
Right, and then come around and call it like try to twist what is obviously like a song intended to troll and like terrorize and call it like, oh.
So it's reporting and discourse, like.
What exactly, And in case anybody's wondering. On Joe Rogan's podcast, he talked about the song and he said it's kind of catchy. Stop it. Yeah, So like yeah, that's there's that okay. So speaking of things that are gross and horrifying, let's check in with what's going on on x slash Twitter. If you'n't even like me, you're probably like not spending a lot of time there. I do not blame you, but a little update as to what's going on on
that platform. According to kalinicule Tie, a research re at Bellingcat, users have been using Rock, which is ex's like AI chatbot, to undress women in the comment of their posts, and Groc is sort of doing it. According to PC mag, while the chatbot rejects prompts for completely nude images, it does fulfill remove her clothes requests with AI generated images of women in bikinis or lingerie. Groc's responses are public and appear as replies to the original prompts. Uh, pretty gross.
So like if I were to post something on X or Twitter, somebody could say remove her clothes and Groc would serve up an image, an AI generated image of whoever in a bikini or lingerie is just like it's just really fucked, like there's no other and it's like other AI chatbots don't do this, right, like other AI chatbots have guardrails against this that Groc does not.
Yeah, it seems like Groc is uh is he like he? Why am I gendering broc oh God?
But you know, Grock's a guy.
He's a.
But it's especially unhinged though, right because I was also seeing I've seen headlines as well about like just wild kind of like South African, like wild racist kind of stuff being baked into Rock.
Yeah, so we were talking about this. Producer Maca and I were talking about this before we got online. I was like, oh, I'm just speaking about Crock and he was like, oh, the South Africa thing. So basically Elon Musk, who is South African, was annoyed that GROC was not serving up like enough racially inflammatory content about how they're bringing South African, like white South Africans to the United States.
So I guess they overcorrected because now when you ask Rock anything, it's like, oh, it's just like the oppression of the white South Africans, like you could be acting for a recipe and it's like, oh, are you also interested in the plight of white South Africans. They really the pendulum has swung in the other direction, Mike, Do I have I summarized that correctly?
Yeah?
I think that's right. I think they just like turned up the white Afrikaanners dial and it's like any question. I saw somebody submit a haiku that was like had nothing to do with anything, and it was like, oh, yes, this is like the blood of the white africaners, like my god, GROC like set.
Her down, settled down rock. Oh so yeah, honestly, like, I have never heard anybody say a positive thing about GROC. Yeah,
I don't think it's going well over there. So about the non consensual like undressing of women, you know, When pointed to a post about this and asked about the guardrails that GROC has against non consensual AI generated explicit content, GROC responded with an apology and said, this incident highlights a gap in our safeguards which failed to blow like a harmful prompt, violating our ethical standards on consent and privacy.
We recognize the need for stronger protections and are actively working to enhance our safety mechanisms, including better prompt filtering and reinforcement learning. We are also reviewing our policies to ensure clearer consent protocols. So like, at least Groc knows what he's doing is wrong. At least I really I should not be answer pomorphizing AI, but I do it constantly in my head, even though I shouldn't.
Well, in twenty twenty five, we are all at this point programmed to make a public apology, make a make a yes, a normal apology, and notes app Yeah.
Groc knows when called out, Like what the proper thing to do is just apologize very quickly via you know, an apology that sounds like Verry Wordsmith. So like, I something about this story gets me because I feel like it is exactly the kind of climate that makes social media and technology more generally like a hostile space for women. And I think you know, in twenty twenty five, most of us are using social media like it is just part of showing up in civic and public life is
being online. And if anybody can use AI to undress you, to sexualize you when you do show up online, we simply do not have an online landscape that would that allows for women to like fully and safely participate in civic life. And so I mean I am not showing up on x or Twitter as a platform anymore, but if I were, and if other women are, I think that, like I can see why that would drive women off
of these platforms. And so these people who say so much they care about free speech, they care about like you know, having a marketplace of ideas, this is anti free speech. Women are going to not show up to these platforms and not you know, make their voices heard on them if the threat is there them being like sexualized and undressed and violated in this way. So it's not only like a gross violation, it's also in my book, like very anti democratic.
Absolutely well in the the unsettling layer of it as well, that yes, Grock is a problem, but it it's also such a problem that there are enough people wanting to train Grock to essentially like assault people.
Yeah, And I guess like that's my point, Like that's like why I don't like to answer fromre size technology like this is because like it's learning from us, so like it's built by people, it's trained by people that learns from people all of the biases and gross things that we know that people have, Like it is, it is just reflecting that back and like turbo charging it. And so yeah, it really does reflect the fact that, like this technology is being trained on the worst human
impulses and that is a problem. And not only is that like a tech problem, it's like a like an US problem, like a people problem. If we can't figure out how to, you know, how to have a more equitable landscape, how to not use technology to just reinforce and reinforce these like patriarchal attitudes about women and violate women, we're never gonna get anywhere. So it's like it's like both a tech problem and a like human problem. I guess we gotta buy Grock a copy of your book.
Come on, Grock, get a ladylike Rocks.
It's a gender neutral term.
Yeah.
More after a quick break, let's get right back into it, all right.
So, speaking of things that are infuriating me and also sort of inspiring me, I guess I need to talk about a landro Nelson. Landre Nelson for folks who don't know she is incredible. I have been lucky enough to like hear her speak, and she is really phenomenal. She has a very long and storied career in public service. She was the first black person and the first ever woman of color to lead the White House Office on Science and Technology Policy. She's a very accomplished scientist professor.
In twenty twenty three, she was nominated by the Biden administration to the UN High Level Advisory Body on AI. Her list of contributions to public interest and science like could go on and on and on. I could talk about her all day. She's phenomenal. Shout out to her. Well. This week she resigned from the National Science Board and the Library of Congress Scholars Council, citing creeping authoritarianism. And I want to talk a bit about what she said
drove her to these resignations. One because I think coming out publicly the way that she has is really brave and it comes with tons of risk, Especially right now. I haven't really seen this story talked about in the way that I wish it was being talked about, because I think absolutely everybody should read what she has to say. I'll put the link to the full piece in the
show notes. But I also think it highlights what we all lose when voices like Nelson's are pushed out of public service, Like we all benefit from having voices who are critical, who ask tough questions. When those voices are in in the conversation, all of our lives can improve. And when those voices are pushed out and silenced, we all lose out. And so yeah, it's it's I think that her her coming out publicly with what she saw
and why she's leaving is really important. So have you did you do you know anything about her work or had you heard this story?
I was not familiar with her, but it's it's tragic to lose someone like that who also, I mean just the amount of knowledge, like institutional knowledge that she possesses, Like when that one person just walks out the door like that, it's I mean, yeah, it's it's gross how many people are being forced to, yeah, just walk away.
Yeah, And I mean I live in Washington, d C. Where a lot of federal workers live, not all, but a lot of federal workers live in this area, and I have been covering it for another podcast I work on called City CASSIDC. It's just we all lose out, like it really is. We all lose out for no reason. It's not saving any money. We could we could do a whole episode on this. But like for all of the like puffery that Elon Musk talked about, like fraud
and waste, we have we the deficit is up. And when you fire somebody illegally and you have to pay them severance that you didn't think you're gonna have to pay, or you have to like fund the lawsuit or something, we have not saved any money, right, So like it's like we're shooting ourselves in the foot for no reason. So first, what is the National Science Board the entity that she was one of the entities she was resigning from.
So the National Science Board of the United States establishes policies of the National Science Foundation, which is one of the biggest and most important funders of scientific research in our country. The National Science Board also serves as an independent policy advisory body to the President and Congress on
science and engineering, research and education issues. Basically, it supports all non medical science research in the United States, so kind of like an i age, the Nationalist Suit of Health, that is the health and medical counterpart of the National Science Foundation, And basically like it is why I am talking to you about technology and the Internet on a podcast, because if it was not for this board, we would
not have the Internet like it is important. So her peace in time explaining her decision to resign isn't just maddening because this like accomplished person is being pushed out of government, although yes, that it's also maddening because it shows how much the Trump administration is attacking and gutting these organizations that technology and scientific advancement really rely on.
I was watching this just like a side frustration. I was watching this podcast with Pete Boudajeg and he was He's been on these like podcast bro type podcasts recently, and there was one where he was basically explaining to the World's Stupidest podcast Bro that the Internet would not exist and like the iPhone, would not exist without the government because it was essentially a project of the government in collaboration with researchers and universities. Why we have the
Internet at all? And it really him having to explain that really revealed that, like some people just don't know, or don't think about, or have not been taught about
where research and scientific and technological advances come from. In this country, and that if we didn't have research, but like funded research, we didn't have universities, and we didn't have government, these things that we take for granted, like the Internet, would not exist, we would not be like, we would be a completely different country, and I would
argue a worse country if not for these things. For so long, the US has led the world in scientific discovery and technological innovation and like improved our lives and drove economic prosperity. And it is just depressing as hell to watch Trump throw all of this away because it's woke or whatever, and then watch people who do not really get it cheer it on and not realize that you were cheering on something that is going to make
all of our lives so much worse. So I think everybody should read her piece in Time explaining her decision to resign, But I want to share a couple of pieces of it because it really, I thought was so perfectly put.
So.
She says that initially she planned to stay in government, but at a certain point that kind of just became impossible. She writes, perseverance has its limits. The erosion of these institutions integrity, and the growing realization that it is impossible to fulfill their missions in good faith has made the cost of continuing untenable. That is why I m at step away from my work with two federal institutions that
I care deeply about. In both of these roles, over the past few years, I've been asked to serve on diverse bodies that offer guidance about how the executive and legislative branches can be stewards of knowledge and create structure to enable discovery, innovation, and ingenuity. In the case of the National Science Board, this ideal has dissolved so gradually yet so completely that I barely noticed its absence until
confronted with the tallow simulacrum. And yeah, that really, I feel like that really just packs a punch of how difficult it would be. Because when all of this hearted happening, I was someone who was like, federal worker should just stick it out. We need their voices, like make them fire you, blah blah blah. And I still sort of
feel that way. But I had never really thought about what it would be like to continue to have your name as the overseer of a board that its mission had been so hollowed that it was just like fake, Like how difficult that would be?
Yeah, yeah, once your job becomes like enacting the kinds of draconian policies as well, Like yeah, it's.
It's enraging, it is.
And she calls out, like just the general attacks on knowledge that this an administration is pushed forth writing this hollowing out is not just about governance and the abstract. It has material consequences for which research questions get asked, which data sets get produced, which knowledge gets produced, and which perspectives shape our understanding of pressing societal challenges. It
has consequences for the integrity of knowledge itself. And I think that is so true that you know again, I feel like it's easy to take for granted that they are smart people asking the questions that are going to lead to scientific advancements, right, Like there are people who are solving problems and challenges that somebody like me might not that have not even been revealed with somebody like me,
and thank god, somebody is working on it. Like what do we get when those people are attacked and pushed out of the important work they've been doing.
Right, and all of their research funding drained? Like it also seems like part of this an extension of the whole like Trumpian mentality and like conservative mentality of running the business, running the government like it's a business, like it's a corporation.
So if something is not immediately turning you a profit, then it's out door. Like it's just like no thing so doesn't.
Work that way, And that's just I mean, like that's just not how we get innovation. Like so many innovations take a long time to reveal themselves or like take some collaboration or like yeah, they're slow burns, and like thank god somebody stuck it out to see them to the end, because it's like, Ben, there was this great thing or this great development that helped everybody. Like it's just it's it's just not how it's just not how
any of this works. So, in addition to resigning from a position at the National Science Board, she's also resigning from her position on the Library of Congress Scholars Council, which is like a body of distinguished individuals convened by the Librarian of Congress to advise on matters related to scholarship at the Library of Congress. So y'all might have seen recently that the Librarian of Congress doctor Carla Hayden was recently fired. Uh really for no good reason.
That's okay.
I had missed that news, and I I mean, I'm not shocked because she is a black woman, and it seems like three black women in the federal government, you know, has a target on her back.
So exactly that Nelson points out that in the email dismissing her, she was so this is someone with a PhD. Right, she's doctor Carla Hayden. The email dismissing her was addressed to Carla just her first name, not doctor Hayden, which is like insult to injury. And importantly, it sounds like
Trump just like fired this woman on his own. He was not acting on behalf of the lawmakers who oversee the Library of Congress, and the White House Press Secretary said that she was being fired quote for things she had done at the Library of Congress in the pursuit of DEI and putting in appropriate books in the library for children. So I want to play this a quick bit of audio of that press conference.
Question.
Now, the president fired the Library of Congress, why do.
You choose to do that?
We felt she did not fit the means of the American people. There were quite concerning things that she had done at the Library of Congress in the pursuit of DEI and putting inappropriate books in the library for children, and we don't believe that she was serving the interests of the American tax Pairwell, so she has been removed from her position in the president as well within his rights to do that.
Has she visited the Library of Congress, That's what.
I'm saying, Like, think about this for one second. Does she think that the Library of Congress lends out books to kids? Like, like genuinely does she think that it doesn't lend out books to anyone? Like its job is to house all the published books in the United States.
So like, first of all, the way that I could never obviously it's never happened, But like I just cannot imagine sitting in a press conference and hearing somebody say that and not being like a bullshit or even if it's asking a follow up, but I guess, like who would be asking the follow up at this point? Like one American News They're like, sure, yeah, that's right, she was lending out books to kids that were inappropriate. It's
like sure, And I think you're exactly right. That like, and Nelson clock says in her piece, she says that, like the reason why they pushed her out is because they are just like pushing out black women in public service under whatever pretense they invent. And that's that, Like they don't even have to have a real answer that
makes any sense in reality whatsoever. Nelson writes, the ouster of Hayden is part of a broader pattern of political targeting of women and black public servants across the federal government. So exactly what you said, right.
And I wonder too if part of uh Trump taking it like firing her himself, and the way it sounds like it went down, it seems like there's also like an especial like a real distaste for anyone who was the first in their position, to which I believe Carla Harden was she sorry.
Yeah, I completely agree, And it's like it just really crystallizes the way that they are being so exuplicit about rolling back any progress, right, Like, And I guess that's the thing is like it does feel I really work hard to not feel defeated in this moment when things feel so bad, but like that's what it feels like. It feels like what they're trying to do is be like any gains that women or you know, historically marginalized
folks have made, we want to make it. We want to like spell it out that those are being erased. And I guess not that I'm saying it out loud. They can take it off the website, they can fire people. I wish they wouldn't, but they can. But we know, right like like they can't take away the gains that
we have made. They can try, they can pull their little bullshit in their little scams, but like they can't take being the first black anything away from anybody, even if they do delete it from the website.
And I mean, unless I'm mis understanding completely how the Library of Congress works, which is possible even if let's say, uh.
The library former Librarian of Congress did put out some books for the children. Even if that did happen, I guess that's what those books are still cataloged at the Library of Congress. Like those books people that are going anywhere, Yeah.
Exactly, Like the point of the Library of Congress is that it holds all the books. So like, if this book was published, you don't have to like it, but you can't take it out of the library of Congress, Like, that's not how it works. So I feel like Nelson really is speaking so powerfully to this moment that we're in,
she writes. To watch these changes unfold without naming them for what they are is to participate in a collective amnesia about how knowledge infrastructures shape power relations, like the shopkeeper in an authoritarian society described by Vachlovehovel in his essay The Power of Powerlessness, who participates in its own oppression through small, daily acts of complicity, placing a party slogan in his window, not out of conviction, but out
of habit. To remain on advisory boards that have been stripped of meaningful advisory function is to become that shopkeeper, to lend legitimacy to a process that has been systematically delegitimized.
And yeah, I mean I really a pre She ate that she is not just leaving quietly, that she is leaving with such a resounding, clear warning to all of us about what happens when you do become complicit, not out of convictions, out of habit, when you do say like oh yeah, like they deleted all this stuff from the website. I guess it never happened, like when you allow for this to become legitimized, And I just it would have been so easy and probably like advisable in
some ways for her to leave quietly. But I'm so glad she chose to leave loudly. And I think everybody should read her parting words. It is like a warning to us.
All.
Okay, so real quick last story. I mean it's I can do it very quickly actually, because she remember back in twenty twenty three when HBO became just Max and everybody hated it.
Oh yeah, how could I Where were you?
You know it.
Is you're joking, but yo, I remember being like why would they take away the HBO? Like I was so like angry because like HBO was just like what do you think of HBO? You think of like Soprano, Sex and the City, like these like iconic shows, and it's like, yeah, let's just be Max, Like what is that?
Yeah?
I was unnecessarily stubborn about it in the way of like I'm.
Not gonna call it x huh. It's very much like it's not Max out.
Well, don't worry because they're going back to HBO. Max now that's it. That's the story. They've they've they've they're back to it. They have they've heard our complaints.
I would love to see. I want to see a spreadsheet of a breakdown of how much that circular decision costs.
I'm so I had the same I had the same question, like, did how much money did an executive get paid to make the initial choice? How much money went to change the branding? I have so many questions.
Oh my god, and you know that there were so many like brainstorm sessions and wow, that's incredible.
Let me ask you this. When you hear the like HBO like static, like, what's the what is the like theme song? This is a question I ask everybody. What is the like theme song that you're like, Oh, when you hear that HBO intro noise, you know it's gonna be this.
Show either Sex and the City or Soprano.
That's okay. I think those are the only two acceptable answers. Producer, Mikes, you want to chime in and tell us what it is if I make fun of you all the time.
There's a period when I was watching a lot of True Blood and I was just powering through one episode after another, and yeah, that was really my my I didn't grow up with HBO, you know. I came from a family where we just had three channels. So this was the period when I had access to like an unlimited set of all of the shows. And it was just like static Sound Show, Static Sound Show. It like trained my brain. So yeah, I'm not gonna apologize.
What a weird answer, very unexpected I have. And now you got me wanting to ask.
I have one friend who is a true Bloodhead, and now I want to ask her the same question.
Did you just make that? Did you make up? Is true bloodhead what they call themselves? Is that?
Like, No, I don't know, Mike, Mike would know.
As a member of the True Blood fan community, that's not a term that we used to identify ourselves.
It's not it's not canon.
Well, Kristen, this has been incredible. Where can folks hear the podcast? The multiple podcasts? Where can folks keep up with you? How can they get the book? Tell us all the things?
Well, thank you so much for having me again. This was so fun.
Folks can listen to unladylike podcasts and the Gender War Games mini series all four episodes of that are out now.
Just search unladylike or if you.
Want something a little weirder, just like for a conspiracy She wrote, I just started a new mini series on that today.
Actually, what is the miniseries exploring?
Well, the Earth is such a dumpster fire.
Was just taking a quick break to aliens and Ufoh my god.
So it's that so like I am also in like the conspiracy world, but so often they're like Quanon. It's like nice to take a little break with, like, oh Aliens.
Yes, I mean all roads will eventually lead back to QAnon and like you know, I mean they all route the same place. But and I didn't even think about beforehand, like how much like UFOs and aliens are just it's all like anti government stuff that takes me right back down to Earth, which is where I.
Wanted to leave. But yeah, it's been it's been.
A fun kind of mental break, but it's fascinating and really like spent a ton of time thinking about UFOs and now I think I've spent too much time.
So come listen to conspiracy, she wrote.
The truth is out there and you're gonna find it. Kristin, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for being our inaugural guest co host on There Are No Girls on the Internet. Y'all can follow me on Instagram at bridget Marian DC, on TikTok at bridget Marian DC on YouTube There are No Girls on the Internet. I know that sounds very awkward. I just started doing more social media, so don't make fun of me. I'm being perceived there and it's fine. Thanks so much for listening.
I will see you soon. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tenggodi dot com slash store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech? I just want to say hi. You can reach us at Hello at tegodi dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tengody dot com. No Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Tod. It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative edited by Joey Pat Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer.
Terry Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almado is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.