#FreeBritney as a successful online movement

of I Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this is there Are No Girls on the Internet. Almost fourteen years ago, a court deemed pop icon Britney Spears unable to take care of herself, placing her in a conservatorship that stripped her up control of nearly every aspect of her life, including her finances, her ability to drive a car, or use an a t M, or make decisions about her own body. Last month, a judge rule to end that conservatorship that Brittany and her fans

have long maintained was abusive and traumatic. Brittany spoke up against the conservatorship to a judge. Here's what she had to say, I truly believe this conservatorship is abusive and that we can sit here all day and say, oh, conservatorships are here to help people. Britney's released from the conservatorship was sparked in part by the Free Brittany movement, spearheaded by Britney supervan Megan Radford. The movement began in two thousand nine and aimed to draw attention to the

singer's conservatorship. Largely organized online, the movement was made up of fans and advocates from all over the world pushing to end what they said was a predatory conservatorship, including a change dot org petition for Britney's right to hire her own lawyer that got over two hundred and fifty thou signatures. In Brittany's first Instagram post after her conservatorship

was voided, she wrote, the Free Brittany movement, you guys rock. Honestly, my voice was muted and threatened for so long and I wasn't able to speak up or say anything. I honestly think you guys saved my life in a way. But even though Free Brittany was a pretty successful movement largely organized online, it hasn't really gotten the same kind

of attention as other online movements. I sat down with Melissa Ryan, friend of the show, online organizing expert and CEO and editor of Control all Right to lead a

popular newsletter dissecting culture, extremism, technology and the Internet. The Melissa, you have been covering and following the Free Britney movement for a while, and I think that you have been covering it with a seriousness that I think it took a while for other folks to get to what initially attracted you to to this movement, Like, why were you

following it so seriously? Well? I started, I mean, I think I was aware of it for a while, and I thought of it just sort of like, oh, a thing that music fans are doing and is somewhat interesting. But the New York Times documentary was really it was staggering to me both that this had been going on so long that they were able to get folks on, so many folks on the record, but also that this online movement had been growing and building for some time

and wasn't necessarily being taken seriously. Um and there was you know, they were clearly able to generate a lot of press stories. They were getting attention from other celebrities, but there just wasn't much sort of conversation among the serious people who love to talk about digital and tech things. Um. And then when Spears did her first testimony in court,

a couple of things became obvious. One was her fans had clearly you know, this movement and her fans had clearly been part of what gave her the courage to speak up, uh and to demand to be heard in a public forum. But too that the organizing had had worked. Uh, that these folks, you know, whatever they were trying to get, they had they had scored just a huge win because none of this I think would have happened without their

years and years of of rallying online. Um. And still they were sort of treated in the press like, oh, these conspiracy theorist fans or these folks that have you know, no life, And it was very disconcerting because, uh, this was a huge win. I mean, you and I both work in politics. You don't get wins like this like they got. Absolutely. I mean I really kind of see it as one of those classic stories that we cover

a lot on this show. Or at first, people are dismissed as you know, Oh they're crazy, they don't know what they're talking about, all of that, and then they're kind of proven, right, um. And I feel like the Free Britney movement is one of those stories where the most vocal folks were dismissed. Why do you think that is? Like,

why was it so easy to discount these people? I think because a lot of her fans were women, and I think because a lot of her fans were lgbt Q um, and I think there was the perception that a lot of them were very young, because we think of music fans being young. Although you know Brittany, Brittany is forty now where I think she turned forty last week, so and stands to reason that her fans are probably

not as you know. I doubt there are many teenagers that are listening to to Britney Spears, except in the context of like their parents nine D Station. Maybe I could be wrong. I do think there's this perception that the people who who are rallying around her and who are really intensely interested in her are just teeny boppers online.

And I think that speaks to how we belittle and cast aside people who are marginalized as you know, just teenagers online or just a bunch of women collecting online as opposed to this movement that really was lifting up

questions about you know, disability justice, reproductive justice. I see this story as hitting so many intersections of the work that you and I do as progressive organizers, you know, lifting up you know, if somebody like Britney Spears can be mistreated in this way, what does that say for other people who might have disabilities? What is it say for other folks who want body autonomy and control over

the reproductive choices? Um? You know that that the second New York Times documentary that came out about Britney Spears, Um, for me, was a real tech story about the surveillance apparatus that controlled her in her home. You know, I think it's really fascinating how it took kind of a while for folks to get on board with talking about this story, um in a way that really highlighted those

important issues. Yeah. I think it would be interesting to dig into how folks who participated in this at various levels, how her story resonated with them, whether it was the conservative ship angle, whether it was the reproductive freedom angle, whether it was the way that women so often get dismissed, or there's when women get so much, you know, access to capital and power, they're almost always efforts to try

to take it away from them. Because I am guessing for a lot of folks, it's not just that they like Britney Spears music, but they saw something over they related to something that was happening. In twenty nineteen, Britney's Graham, a podcast dedicated to deep dives and close readings into Britney Spears instagram posts, received a voicemail from a pair legal who said he was connected to Britney's Conservatorship. According to him, Britney was forced into a mental health facility

against her will. This created a firestorm of new support for ending the conservatorship. These you know, women who had started this podcast devoted to to Britney's Instagram, which I totally get. I now follow Britney's Instagram and I love that it's like a combination of her dancing and middle aged mom memes. I I don't know, I just I spend so much time on Britney's Instagram. Now it's amazing. Just if we're gonna have that little tangent like I

wish I had known about it years ago. Um, but you know, and that they were you know, because they had this podcast. You know, someone trusted them enough to to leave them this voice meal saying you know, I used to work for this law firm and something that's happening to her isn't right. Um. And just that they were able to build that much trust with people who were in her orbit just by you know, being fans and the content they were creating. It's fascinating to me,

it really is. And I'm I've been following her on Instagram for a while and I love it. I love her spinning dance moves, love it. And even after the conservatorship has been lifted, just she's using her Instagram to document these little things that I take for granted, like that she made a post about getting to have an iPad and how that how free that made her feel.

And I think I think it does an interesting job of illustrating what, you know, what the abuse of people who have disabilities can look like, where it's like the little things that she didn't get to have access to, didn't get to just be able to be on her iPad.

And I think you can really put a a face or an image on these issues or withdraw cash from an a t M. That was one of them where she talked about being able to get from an A t M. And it's just sort of you're so happy that she has that now, but it's like, oh my god, thirteen years of not being able to live as an adult while you were earning the money to pay all of your captors. Let's hit quick break out her. Back in the final days of Britney Spears's conservatorship, something strange

started to happen. Extremist right wing lawmakers like Florida Congressional Representative Matt gets started speaking out on her behalf. Matt gets Pull, in the middle of an ongoing sex trafficking investigation, spoke at an in person Free Brittany rally. I really didn't understand what was happening, but Melissa says, extremists co opting cultural moments for their own agendas is nothing new.

One of the things that you really did a nice job of pointing out is this weird thing that happened where at the height of the Free Britney movement, when there was all this momentum, we saw all of these right wing far right extremists and trolls. I guess I would say co opting it. There was this time where Matt gets was speaking at a Free Brittany rally and rally, what do you like, what do you think was going

on with that? Like? What was happening? That was something I were seeing that in my new speed and being like my brain can't even comprehend what this is. I need to just move on, Like what what was that? I mean? I think I tend to think of Matt Gates as a professional troll and sometime as congressman, Like once in a while he shows up to work at Congress, but most of the time he seems to be like

where can I get the most attention for myself? Which is why he like goes to Wyoming to campaign against wiz Cheney and uh, you know, the Free Brittany rally. And so I think he just saw a moment and was like, how can I exploit it to get attention for myself? Um? And I think more broadly, that's sort of what the far right does. They don't really build culture.

They steal culture. Um. You know. It's like you see they try to appropriate everything from Peppe the Frog from you see them with Karen and with free Brittany, they saw an opportunity. Um. And one of the most amusing things to me was when her her lawyer, Um, we should definitely talk about the lawyer too, because that guy just looks like Atticus Finch, Like they just pulled him

out of Central Casting. But when her lawyer was talking after the conservatorship ended, and he very specifically said, everyone from the far right to the left is supporting Brittany now. And I do appreciate how her lawyer like took advantage of the fact that, you know, everybody and their mother was sort of glomming onto his client. Yeah. Do you do you think that we're gonna see more of that kind of thing? Like? Is that? Is that a common

tactic of extremists just whatever conversation is happening. How can I jump into that conversation and co opted for my own, you know, my own fucked up agenda. Yeah, I mean you see it a lot. And again, like they're these folks, especially ones who are elected too. I think, you know, I'm especially obsessed with like these extremists who have managed to get themselves elected to office. They don't really have

any interest in serving their constituencies. They really are like constantly auditioning for Fox News for Trump to try to create viral moments for themselves. So, you know, I think Marjorie Taylor Green was another one who all of a

sudden cared about free Brittany. Um. There was a congressman in South Carolina who did um a free Brittney bill about reproductive about not being able to force someone to have birth control, probably not realizing that, I know, I know, I was like, oh, dude, you're so close so clothes, you have no idea. Um, But yeah, I mean you're gonna see a lot of that with pop culture molds, and we've been seeing it. I mean, how many movies that star women and people of color have the right

freaked out about? Um? You know you see that with with so much culture, and again, like they're they're too lazy and too not creative to create their own cultures, so when it comes to culture, like they're always going

to try to steal it. Yeah. That's something I've really been stuck on, is the way that pop culture and things that we used to think of as like you know, diversions, how that is kind of become a new battle because I won't say new battlefield, but just another battlefield to have these wars play out on and then to have

people try to make a name for themselves. Like I think about the whole controversy around the movie Cuties, things like that, where we're no longer having conversations about the film, the art, whatever. It's just a proxy for people to co opt this conversation and to make sure that the only chatter around it is in bad. I think there's such an anger on the right because culturally, you know, politically and in terms of raw political power, they are winning.

They're winning big time. I don't think there would be any debate there. But in terms of pop culture they're losing, I think, worse than they've ever lost. I mean, if you look at uh, you know, all of these entertainment conglomerates, they're working hard to have more diverse voices. You're seeing

more writers of color, more casts of color. You know, we're not where we need to be, but it's certainly better than you know, when you and I were young people, and they're just not able to create the same sort of pop culture moments the way that they have been with like if you think back to like the Super Bowl with jannat Jackson, if you think the things that the Parent Television Council would get upset about, you know,

it's just very hard to get folks to care. And corporate America has figured out, for better or worse, there's good and bad to this, but they have figured out that more diversity and more inclusion makes them more money because they're reaching more audiences. So the right is just not going to have that mass media power that they have been used to having, and they don't have the ability to influence conversation through mass media the way they have in the past. That's such an interesting point. I

could see a lot of folks on the right. Yeah, that the that the understandable reaction to that is rage, Like, like, I don't have the influence in this space I used to, so I'm going to rail against it or co opted if I can. It's it's all so disingenuous, and it's like, as you said, it's not it's not creating culture. It's not it's not creating culture to co opt another movement.

It's not creating culture to you know, turn a piece of film or a piece of art or a television show into a proxy war for your you know, rage to play out in It's it's in the absence of creating culture. I feel this is all they have. Yeah, kind of sad when you put it that way. It is sad, and I actually don't think we recognize enough just how badly the right is losing the culture war. And again it's because they have so much power politically.

But it's an interesting disconnect and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Yeah. So, I guess one of my last questions for you is, as an online organizer and somebody who cares about the Internet, are there takeaways that you see that we can glean from this? You know? Pretty I would say successful Free Brittany online organizing moment. Yeah. I mean, I think you can't underestimate the power of Internet movements to create not just political

but cultural change. UM. I think, Yeah, what we've we talked about how we're going to continue to see the right like try and fail to co opt things like this. Um. But mostly I just hope that I want to see what these folks who are involved in Free Brittany do next. There was a lot of talk when I've seen quotes in the press of we're going to get more involved in getting the conservatorship law changed and reproductive rights. So it'll it'll be interesting to see what the hard core

folks do around it, UM. And then I'm also I'm kind of interested to you know, Britney spears as someone who has had a career of not being political, like I think you know, she's from a red state. She uh is very careful I think, and how always and how she talks about politics and and and issues like, I think she's been very smart about that in her career. So it'll be interesting to see what she ends up doing if she wants to be UM an advocate for

disability rights or for women's right. She may not want to, and by the way, she has every right to just live her life and not be the leader of a movement, but if she wants to do more with it, she clearly has a community that's ready to engage with her, so that'll be interesting as well. Yeah, it's gonna be

really interesting to see. And I'm with you. I think I'm one of those people that if there's one thing I believe in, it is the power of women and LGBTQ folks and people of color who are fired up and have access to the Internet and social media, like big things are possible. Things. I never there's so many things in a million years I would have never thought I would see. But because somebody had the Internet, they were able to make it happen. If somebody had the

Internet and a voice. And I think this is a great example full of the power of that. And you know, especially now when we're all kind of living our lives online more and more because of COVID, I think it's gonna be an exciting time to see how that bears out. Yeah, so, where can folks keep up with all the amazing work that you're doing. Melissa's sure well, I am on Twitter at Melissa Ryan. Um. I also have uh my newsletter control all Right Delete, which is free and comes out

every Sunday. You can either find that in my Twitter bio or you can go to control all Right Delete dot com. Control Alright Delete is the most I mean, I get so many newsletters, it's like the most useful newsletter. It's like, if I want to know what's happening on the Internet, and like what I should know, it's the most useful newsletter, so folks should definitely sign up. I mean so much, especially coming from you. That's awesome. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech? I just

want to say hi. You can be just at Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts today's episode at godi dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Tod. It's a production of iHeart Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer, Terry Harrison as our producer, and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review

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