This is now around and find out right. So like so it's like, you know, you can like that's what it is, like it is, you know, and you can take that any which way you want. You can be like, you know, you're not going to disrupt my piece because you're gonna suk around and find out right. There are No Girls on the Internet. As a production of I Heart Radio and Unboss Creative, I'm Bridget Todd and this
is There Are No Girls on the Internet. So we talked a lot about media on this podcast, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, and it's really important to me because I think that everyone deserves access to thoughtful, accurate media that tells them the truth. And when people are not nourished by good stories, it creates a gap that gripters and bad actors are more than happy to fill with lies and junk. And this is especially bad for people that are already marginalized, like women and communities
of color. It's a real problem, and it's something that Daniel Moody has spent her entire life trying to combat through creating digital content that meaningfully centers the kinds of people who are traditionally left out in ways that are thoughtful, nuanced, and most importantly honest. I am Danielle Moody. I am the host of Woke f and co host of Democracy Ish. Both our political podcast one is daily and one is
weekly that I do with a co host. I'm also a columnist for Zora magazine, which is a property of medium Um and of political commentator using the I don't know the Internet to try and make some sense out of nonsense. I like, I like how you put that. I mean, that's actually a great place to start. You know, I'm so familiar with your work just as a as a dynamic person who has interesting opinions, particularly about politics, and I guess I wonder what has the intersection of
technology and the Internet and politics looked like for you? Like, I know that you're someone who, both on your podcast and on social media, really do a lot of the work of breaking down making sense of the world, uh and the people who are, you know, making decisions around it on the Internet. What does that look like for you?
You know, It's really interesting because I think that I have had a different vantage point into politics by virtue of my age and when I came into doing the work that I was doing and you know, it was before we used to just have you know, three news sites, three news stations right that the world was paying attention to ABC, CBS, uh AN, NBC, and you had these reputable um or at the time, we thought neutral, reputable you know, white men that were delivering the news to us.
And you know, the advent of the Internet and creating an entire social universe, creating the you know, the metaverse, um allowed for us to take you know, the power away from these institutions and actually create a more democratic understanding and make up of who is reporting on politics and what kind of analysis that they're offering. Like it democratized politics in a lot of ways, um that I think I have seen through you know, my origination of my first podcast, which was like in the early two
thousands too. Now, um, it's it's incredible the amount of people, the amount of diverse voices, and the the amount of eyewitness reporting that we that we use, and we use firsthand accounts as opposed to just putting all of our um, all of our belief system into these institutions that have kind of been the gatekeepers. The gates have been able to open up wider for people that look like me
because and look like us because of the Internet. Yeah, that's something that I've really seen a lot of, and I think, you know, you and I are probably very much aligned on this. But when you see people, typically white men, who are saying things like, oh, you know, you know these days you can't say anything, cancel culture, all of that nonsense, I've always thought that what they're actually responding to is this new paradigm where actually marginalized
people can have platforms that they build themselves. Actually marginalized people can put their ideas, in their opinions, and their their perspectives out into the world, and those perspectives will, you know, people will have to contend with those perspectives. I think that you know, traditionally, marginalized folks have always
pad We've always had our perspectives. But because of the Internet, those perspectives are are you able to have a platform that that you built yourself or you know, or have have conditions were like, folks have to take what you're saying seriously or have there has to be some repercussions for what you're saying, as opposed to just being ignored. And so I think that when people respond to to you know, oh, these days you can't say anything without
being canceled. What they're actually responding to is like, no, just more voices are part of the conversation, and that's new. Yeah. I think that they're responding to, you know, something crazy called accountability. That they are actually going to be people that are going to push pushed back against the things
that you're saying. And that while we have become so accustomed and so ingrained with centering whiteness in the way that we see the world, that when you have diverse voices that are here, we have a totally different articulated narrative right than the one that has been force spent to us. And I think that in this state where we are right now, you know, people I've heard white men say like, oh, I'm just scared, and I'm like,
you have no reason to be scared. If you're not if you're not a creed, you have no reason to be scared, if you not a racist, if you're not a misogynist. You know, like, you should you should not be worried. You should have wanted things like this um to exist. And the fact that people are being held accountable for the things that come out of their mouths Um, it is not risk free right to to offer up your opinions. And I think that people need to be
aware of that. And just because you are sis and white, uh and straight does not mean that you are neutral. And I think that we are finally at a place where we're moving moving away from that perceived uh, that perceived norm like, oh it because I'm a black lesbian, then that means that like I can't be neutral, and I'm like neutral, neutrality is false. No one is neutral, right, And so that's that's the thing that we need to understand from the jump, and then we can have real
honest conversations about cancel culture and accountability. Oh my god, this comes up on the show. I'm time and time again time again, this idea of the lie that we
tell our selves, particularly in journalism. But I think across media that that that anybody is neutral, and I think that neutrality is really just code for like a white male cis heterosexual perspective, and so anybody who falls outside of that, and I would also saying like middle class, able bodied like like that is considered to be quote neutral, and anybody who happens to fall out of that perspective there, the idea is that they can't write about their own
experiences or their own communities because they're going to be biased, when in fact, there is no such thing as neutrality. We have just coded coded the idea along these like incredibly like racialized gendered lines and had that dictate who gets to have a voice for a very long time in our in our media. Yeah, and I think that, you know, it's problematic because again, what we are saying is that they are the default, right, that white sis men are the default, and everyone else falls outside of
the quote unquote norm. And it's like, why do we have this understanding of what is normal and what is not? Why is it that when you're seeing you know, you're listening to broadcasters and you're watching shows and they're talking about, oh, a man was shot today, but you know that by virtue of how they said that that it was a white man, right, because they don't say white right. So but if it was a black man, or a an Asian man or a Latino, they would articulate that fact.
And so we have to move And we saw this, and I think I saw it in a really um disheartening way, but we saw out loud what black people have known for so long and people of color have known. As the war in Ukraine broke, you had journalists on a multitude of of stations and network saying, oh my god, you know, we've never seen something like this in you know, in Europe. This is this is so heartbreaking. It's not I mean, they have Starbucks and Instagram. It's not like
this is serial or Afghanistan. And you're just like, so, your assumption is that the people in the countries that you just named do not are are, shouldn't have safety right that they that there, we should have expectations of
violence in these areas. Yet your who was the perpetuator of violence around the globe, colonization and chattel slavery which originated in these places, and the Hundred Year War and all of these things, like somehow the fleeing of blonde hair and blue eyed people should invoke more empathy than the fleeing of brown hair and brown eyed people in
various parts of the world. And it just it was that moment where it's just like you need to be really careful about the language that you use and what you were saying, right with saying what you said, and with not right like where used to and have been sensitized to violence in certain areas of the world because we sell it that way, right, um, And I think that that is incredibly problematic, and that's why I like, I'm so grateful to be a part of this kind
of wave of you know, podcasting and technology and how technology mixes with media to move outside of the quote unquote mainstream. Yeah, I'm so glad that you brought that up and and a lot of my work both on the podcast in my focuses around things like um, media accountability and media trust, and I think you just really nailed it, right. I think that there are so like it pains me when I see people who fall prey to things like conspiracy theories or disinformation or misinformation online.
But the reality is people have, particularly black and brown folks, have legitimate reasons to be very skeptical of some of our media, media that constantly otherwises us, media that constantly you know, shows us every day. That the Ukraine example that you just gave about the way that they were speaking about you know, how folks in uk Rain have Starbucks and their quote just like us, and how that was different than you know, sets up this this this
dynamic where it's different than other countries. It's like very clear to me what they're trying to say. I think that we have not fully contended with how deeply, how deeply unserved so many traditionally marginalized communities are by institutions like traditional media, and that because that is true, because
these institutions fail us every day. It sets folks up to be susceptible to disinformation, conspiracy theories, bad actors, people who are selling them, you know, nonsense, because it feels like that are our only other option. It's also not serving us in a meaningful way, not centering us in a meaningful way. Let's take a quick break at our back. We already know that bad actors and provocateurs intentionally weaponize and spread lies online and in media to stoke and
inflame tensions. But what's sometimes harder to see are the ways that traditional media outlets, the kind of places that you would expect to be better, add fuel to the fire by spreading and normalizing inaccurate and inflammatory narratives as well. For instance, you probably might have heard that, according to a judge Tucker Carlson's show on Fox News doesn't actually
have to include any actual you know news. The judge's opinion said that the general tenor of the show should inform a viewer that Carlson is not quote stating actual facts about the topics he discusses, and is instead engaging
in quote exaggeration and non literal commentary. Daniel says that making our own media like she does can be a means of creating more authentic, not to mention, truthful information ecosystem, I would argue that, and I and I have said many times on on my own show, that we have an FCC, right we we we have an FCC that is supposed to regulate the airwaves and supposed to regulate television and radio. Um. And yet you have outlets like
Fox News who outwardly promote lies. Right And and while we want to put up notations on on Netflix and on Amazon and on Hulu that says nudity, violence, smoking, all of these things, you know, age thirteen and up, we don't put the same notifiers on news outlets that
are spreading dangerous lives that have cost people their lives. Right, And so it isn't just like looking at mainstream and saying, oh, my god, they're bad, but the people that are supposed to be in charge of regulating them have decided not to, and then they hide behind the Constitution and saying that, oh, it's freedom of speech. And it's just like, I'm not saying not to say what you're saying, but I'm saying that there should be a warning sign that comes with
Tucker Carlson. There should be a warning sign that comes with Laura Ingram. There should be a moment before their shows go on and midway through and when they close out that says that it is dangerous, that says that this is for entertainment purposes only, that it is not
to be perceived as education. Right, And so by virtue of how we have allowed these entities to survive, it's the reason why podcasting in all of its form, talking about a range of themes has become so popular because you can't rely on mainstream media anymore to provide you
with the information that you need. And we saw that readily apparent during UH during the beginning of COVID, right like you have all of these outlets saying, chirping and imparting what Donald Trump was saying, that it was a hoax. Hundreds of thousands of lives were lost because of that line, and not once again was there any lawsuit against Fox News, oh A, n any of these places to say that what they were saying was violent and crossing people their
lives and that they were a national threat. Nothing. So I you know, I love the rise of kind of this um, this form of media because it's necessary, and I think that you're going to see more and more of it as people just move away from television altogether, right, um, because you're getting your information, you're streaming it in so many different ways. I know that you have are are a long time podcast or a long time person who's been using the Internet to build platforms that can really
tell a different story. I feel the same way. You know. I've worked in podcasting in some capacity behind the mic in front of the mic since like two thousand nine, right, And so I was doing it back in the day when we didn't know what the heck we were doing, Like it was like the Wild World West. I was like learning everything that I was doing on on my
like as I was doing it. And I think it's so interesting now to look around the space and just see a different a different, a different vibe, right, like it's it's I guess that that's one of the reasons why I love podcasting and the Internet as a place to build your own media platforms and tell a different kind of like media story because it does feel very inclusive. There are queer folks, black folks, brown folks, women, people
with disabilities, you know, trans folks. Thanks to the Internet and technology, I believe we've been able to really build these platforms that center ourselves and just allow us to be seen in different lights. And that's that's so important because we deserve you know, thoughtful depictions of ourselves and media. We deserve media that that meaningfully centers and serves our communities.
You know, I had a really interesting conversation over you know, a couple of weeks ago with friends of mine because they were talking about how their jobs are using the metaverse, right that they are having the the what are they the oculus, the the you know, the the oculus eyewear, and that they are their organizations and their companies have created alternate universes within and camp and digital campuses to create community because they have gone virtual that they are
still roughly of workers in the United states are still virtual and will remain that way, um because because of COVID and how it is just transformed the way that
we were. And I thought to myself, wow, that that is really fascinating also terrifying, right because you I'm like, you know, the thing about um, you know, television, and the thing about like not being so like being in social media, which you are addicted to your phone and your swiping and the democratization of it all is that we actually don't we actually carry the transphobia, the able ism, the racism into all of these spaces. So a while we have seen an expansion of representation in terms of
who is holding the mike. What we are seeing though, as technology develops and we become more immersed with having our you know, quote unquote in real life, but then having our avatar having this other alternative metaverse, that what we're realizing is how those issues are just being reimagined in different spaces. And so it's like, how do we have a conversation that is about the excitement around how
inclusive technology can be. But if we are not mindful about how it is being used and who is using it, that all we're doing is changing spaces, but not actually changing hearts in mind. Oh absolutely, I mean I completely agree, and I think you know, it doesn't matter if we're
talking about the podcast space, the metaverse, web three. If if you are not intentional, and if you are not really mindful from the very beginning, it doesn't matter what revolutionary technology or revolutionary thing that you had that's going to democratized tech or democratize democratized media. You will just be rein like reinventing those same isms, racism, sexes, and all of them in this new space unless you are
intentional from the very beginning. And that's why I think that it's I will always be like a tech optimist. I will always be excited and hopeful about the about the promises that new technology will bring. But I'm also a realist because I do know that we can People can get so starry eyed and excited about new technology and they think, you know, we won't need to have like these considerations won't be a problem in this in this new realm and the metaverse or in Web three.
But then I know that is not true, because racism, like that train is never late, it's it shows up forever. That never always time it's always odd time. My god, it's never run off schedule. But that it's totally true. And I think you know, I had watched UM the documentary quoted bias uh a while back, and it blew my mind. I was just like, my god, not even can we think about relieving ourselves of racism? No, it's
president algorithms. I'm not like Jesus Christ, you know. So it's like, if you're not tackling these issues, if you're not talking about them, if you're not trying to reach and break through the noise um, which is what I try and do on a day to day basis with with Woka app, It's like, if you're not trying to reach these people, were just transferring, right, We're not changing anything.
And so, you know, we watched it with the whole debaffle around Spotify and Joe Rogan and the fact that oh okay, well Spotify decides okay, they get called out for some boarding racism by virtue of supporting him, and then they say, oh, well, we're gonna give uh fifty black people a hundred million, Like they're gonna get to share the pot of a hundred million dollars that we're gonna distribute that we have given one white sisman, And I said, who the hell was doing your pr and
thought that that was gonna be a good look that basically you said that every podcaster of Color Right is worth one white man. I hated that. Yeah, yeah, it
was just it was just disgusting. But you know, you listen, you know uh when we see uh TikTok and we see black creators on TikTok, you know, pushing back and saying, okay, So now these white creators come in, they bite our videos, they bite our work, they slap on their name to it, and then all of a sudden they've got millions of followers and millions of dollars worth of endorsements, right, And so it's like, yes, we have all of these platforms that we can readily access, but it's like who's able
to monetize, who's able to break through? There's still the gatekeepers that are largely white men that I get to say, yea, and they that's such a good point. And I think it goes back to I mean, something that's like a mentor once told me, is that you should always be
really careful building your house on someone else's land. And I guess when I think about, you know, the platforms that I that I think of as platforms that I have, you know, built myself, and in a lot of ways I have, but you know, the powers that be at Apple could decide that I don't belong there and kick me off tomorrow. You know, if if you have have lots of lots of Instagram followers or TikTok followers, it's like it can feel like something that you have ownership over.
But while our tech platforms and Internet platforms are all so you know, in the hands of you know, powerful tech leaders who all kind of happened to be white men, you really don't own as much as you think, I guess, I would say, And so I've always tried to be
very mindful of that. That, Like, as as cool as it is to to try to build your own platforms to tell your own stories um yourself, it is a good reminder that while so much of the owning class is you know, white, straight tech leaders and tech bros and all of that, you know, what can you what can you really own? What can you really have that's yours?
You know? And that's and that's one of the reasons you know why I became independent, right, Like, for the longest time I was doing the tap dance and the jig for networks for you know, to see me, see me, see me, and like show my work by virtue of how many hits on television that I could get, right, how many people were calling into my show when it was still on serious exam right, And so one of the reasons why it was important as a black we're woman to go to a podcast company that is run
by black people, right, um, was because one, I did not want to have my voice um uh shrunken right, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't want to have to shrink myself to fit into other people's ideas of me. But then realizing that even in being independent, I still need the Apples and the Spotify's and you know this this stitchers and all of those places to put my
independent work on. Right. So it goes back to what your mentor said about building your house on other people's land, because it's like, yes, I built this house, right, but I still have to put it someplace and I don't get like by you know, unfortunately don't own the apples and the and the Spotify's and those places. So you're still going to be behold in to those people who get to determine your worth in your value more. After a quick break, let's get right back and do it.
I really identified with what you just said about going independent. And there was a time in my life where this was several years ago, where I thought the path for me, the path to be where I wanted to be in my career and in my life was sort of quote being seen by a big traditional media outlet. And I worked for a big news network whose name you definitely have heard of it. I'm not gonna say here, and so much of you know that I remember you from there. Yeah,
I'm sure I don't know it. I'm I'm It's like I don't. It's no big secret like people can people you know, and and no shape to them, like like I have no paid for them at all. But like I thought, I had really bought into this idea that the path forward was somebody at that network like liking me or seeing me. And so I was sort of always auditioning, even for a job I I already had.
And when I when I look back at all of the work I had to do, to sort of not just let go of that job and let go of that mindset, but do a lot of like internal work. I'm saying, you know, I know that I have value. I know that I have something to say. I know that I have a perspective. It doesn't matter how many views, how many clicks my content or my piece makes for somebody else. My worth is not tied to that. And really, you know, you described it as like doing the dance.
That was all I was doing in that part of my life, and it didn't get me anywhere. And I look back and I think all of these things that would have been that would have been for me like the height of success. I don't even need them anymore, let alone want them. I don't even need them anymore. The height of success to me is is having a platform to say what I want to say and feeling good about it and and not having to have the pressure of like, oh, I hope they like it. I
hope it goes viral. I hope this. I hope that you know how exhausting that was and how much myself I spent on that on that dance. I guess I
really identified with what you just said. Bridget I was like, you know it, I felt like I was on a hamster wheel for like ten years, right, just you know, my entree into media was around, uh, same sex marriage was in you know, the you know the tents, right, and you know, doing everything for those outlets, just trying to get on television, chasing the producers, chasing these things, making sure that you know, my social media was you know, just right, because I didn't want to be too offensive
and to this and to that and too much right, and then finally realizing that what the hell am I doing? I have contorted myself into a water down version of myself so that I would make myself digestible to the white C suite and I and I just decided, I don't want this right. What I want is to share my thoughts and my message unfiltered, right. And if you don't like that unfilteredness, if you need your politics with more sugar than I am not the one right, because
I'm going to give it to you straight. So it was you know, the recognition for me. And again this came really through the pandemic of looking around and realizing that everything was shifting. Everything that you thought I was was no longer and saying that this was an opportunity for those of us in a privileged space, This was an opportunity to reinvent and to say, you know what, I'm dropping all of the precursors, I'm dropping all of
the caveats. I'm actually just gonna say what the funk I want to say and how I want to say it, And if you want me on air, book me. If you don't, I ain't chasing you. And I'm good right because I'm gonna say what I want to say, how I want to say it, and miss me, you know, with everybody else's interpretation of how it should be. Oh, I'm so I love how you put that, and I
think I had the same thing. And for me, it went back to this idea of stopping this dance of trying to be everything for everybody and just realizing that, like, what I have to say is not going to hit with everybody, and that's okay, and that actually is helpful because it allows me to spend time really leading into my people and my and like who I am for and so rather than spending all that energy trying to be you know, exactly the right curated version of myself.
I'm it's going to be who I actually am, and the people who are with that that will resonate with them, and the people who are not with that who cares like like I'm not for them, I'm not for everybody. I am who I'm for and not who I should be concerned about people who I'm not for. It's not really my business what they think about me. You know.
One of the things that I still do a bit of, and this is only for you know, organizations who align with my with my value set and my missions, is that I do media trainings and executive coaching for underrepresented CEOs and executive directors. And I remember that when I started doing media trainings many years ago, you know, it was always about trying to present people's best version of themselves, right, but it was also about making them palpable, watering them down.
What about thinking about what what will margin Middle America think? Right? Like, what will this person think? Now? When I do media trainings, I say, tell the truth? What what what is the truth that you want to be offering up to you know, to the to the people. Do you understand your audience? Do you know where they are? Right? And then we can craft whatever message that you want, but at the end of the day, this is about telling the truth.
This is not about watering things down. We are past the water down version um of of of America and what we need to be seeing and doing. People need
to be activated. And I think that, you know, one of the purposes of mainstream media is pacification, because if they actually wanted people to be you know, riled up, to be knowledgeable, then we wouldn't see the kind of news that we see right like there, It wouldn't just be you know, the three stories that all of the networks are going to cover for a week and that's gonna be it, right, There would be more substance that
is there. And so you know, we also have to recognize that we're not going to be able to get our education through the people who are trying to actually remain in power and continue to oppress people. What wasn't it Audrey Lord that says the master's tools are not
going to dismantle the master's house. Then that is like to me, how I look at mainstream media versus you know, podcasting and the new age of technology and media is that we are using different tools to still try and dismantle this house, but then recognizing that the house that we have built is still on somebody else's land. And so what is the next step? What does the next iteration of that look like? Well, I guess I have to send that question back to you. What does that
look like? What does the next step look like? In your mind? You know? I just I realized for for me, just recently, I went on TikTok, right. I I literally just joined TikTok like a month ago, and I was totally against it because I'm like, I ain't going on this children's site, right like in my head, that's why I said, I'm not going on this children's site. And then I started to realize that, you know, it used to be that to be considered credible, you needed to write,
right then people do. Then we we realized people don't actually like to read. Then it was oh well, then go on television, and then you realize like, oh well, people's attention attention span has actually shrucked. Now I need to figure out a way that I'm shrinking down my forty minutes show that I do daily into just one minute, just sixty seconds of content, because that's how people are
getting their information. So I couldn't just pooh pooh like this this medium that felt uncomfortable to me because I wasn't the age target demographic for it. But then recognize that, like we as content creators need to be adapting to where people are getting their content and how they are consuming that content. So for me, the next iteration is just meeting people where they are and making sure that I am as nimble as possible and that there is no no right, like, no, I don't want to do this,
No it doesn't feel right. If it doesn't feel right, great, But I don't want to close myself out of different ways to communicate with people, because that is always going to evolve. And for a content creator and somebody that wants to wake people up needing to evolve with where people are, that's such a smart way to think about it.
Like that's why, that's why I started out as a podcaster, because it was like an emerging this is you know, back in the day, it was like an emerging new medium, and I was just like, I'm so excited to see what people do with this, and people were doing like weird out off the wall stuff with it, and so I think, like being willing to be nimble and saying yes to new places where it feels right for your voice to be, where it feels like like there's alignment.
I think it's really is really key, Yeah, because I'm not trying to fit where I don't you know, I'm not trying to make And I think that that to just going back really quickly to UM to mainstream media, that was the thing, is that I was trying to fit myself into a space that did not want me and actually was very clear about the fact that they did not want me, right, But I kept trying to
fit in, fit in. And I think that, you know, by virtue of just having been in this podcasting space, been in this new media space for you know, a decade now, UM, it is it's really interesting to decide to to follow your own beat, right, to create your own like to figure out what works for you and then just keep pushing it out right and you know,
and people will buy like they do. You know, people people will buy, but you have to be really steadfast and what it is that you're creating and delivering UM and then figure out where to put it. Yeah, And it's like I've definitely gotten to a place again over years of internal work and sort of like figuring out where my perspective. I don't want to be in any rooms where it's clear that I am not welcome. I don't want to be anywhere where my presence is not
a gift of value. You know, people don't like I just have no interest. Maybe it's comes with getting older, but yeah, but it's it's true, but it'sn't true. It's just like you know, And I think it's because the generations that came before us thought so hard to get into those rooms, right, they fought so hard to get a seat at the table. And I think that the generations that are coming now are just like, yeah, fuck that room. I don't need it. Like I'll create, literally,
I will create my own space, like I'm good. You know, you continue to do you over there, and I'm going to create something over here. And you know that That is what gives me hope about about new media, about these the ways in which we're all adapting to these different spaces, is that it's an opportunity for us to
show up as our most authentic selves. Right, It's the opportunity to say, like, no, I'm not gonna do you know I remember when I locked my hair, right, this is you know, twenty years ago I locked my hair and people were just like, and you're gonna work in politics. I don't think that that's a good idea, right because unless I was going to present some Eurocentric form version of myself, some perm pressed form version of myself, then apparently what was going to come out of my mouth
didn't matter, right. So I think that we are still in a place. I mean, we just passed the Crown Act, but we're still in a place where like we're still having to justify how we look, how we sound. But I think that it's a better place used to be in when we're the ones that are owning and creating the spaces and deciding where and when and how we want to be involved, right, and like how and where and when we want to show up. It's a different
form of power. M h. I love that. And think about this, like I never thought I'd either day where we have Judge Jackson about to make history as first black woman on Spreme Court with braids. I never thought I see the day and here we are, And so I think it goes to show you that, you know, we've come to a different place where I think that we have we're setting the standard for how we want to show up, and I think that standard is being dictated by us and and and not not external forces.
And I love that for us. I hope that we all hope that that this is like a new a new normal where we just accept that we are going to show up as ourselves, our most authentic selves, and folks can accept that or not accept that. You know, one of the funniest things that came out of the funniest memes that I saw that came out of the Oscars, you know, debacle, was this is now sunk around and
find out right. So like so it's like, you know, you can like that's what it is, like it is, you know, and you can take that any which way
you want. You can be like, you know, you're not gonna disrupt my piece because you're gonna look around and find out, right, like I'm going to continue telling the truth, or you're gonna work around and find out Like I think that whatever that means for you, but it is it's saying like, yeah, I'm not trying to fit myself into your standards, right, I'm going to make my own um. And the more like that you try and uh place people into boxes, the more that you're going to see
people want to burst out of them. And I think that if we can embrace you know, this new season of life and expectations that we have for our self, right, and the brands that we are building and creating, then you know, we it will be a a new it will be a new dawn, right, And I think that
every day is the beginning of a new dawn. Every season offers us an opportunity to try to be better, do things that are bolder, right, And I think that that's what podcasting allows us to really do, is to be bold, to be big, um, and to exist outside of the box. Mm hmm. I love that, Danielle. I have one last question for a little bit of a curveball question. So one of your podcasts is called Woke
a f what do you And it's fantastic. People should definitely listen to it as well as democracy ish um, But what is it like? You know? The e this idea of being woke, you know, definitely started in black vernacular, like that was our term, and now I feel that it's almost become a dog whistle right, like, you know, speaking of Judge Jackson, I remember before, even before she was named as the Supreme Court nominee, and Biden was
just like, oh, I'm planning on picking a black woman. Uh. One of the arguments I heard about this hypothetical black woman who wasn't even named yet was that she was going to be the woke choice for the Subpreme Court. How do we get to this place where the term woke is now almost like a just like a coded dog whistle for black And what do you what do you make of that as someone who you know has a show that that is you know, the word that you used to describe your your own um, you know,
your your own politics and ideology. I mean, for me, being woke is about being uh conscious and aware of the world around you, right, living and like what does it mean to live consciously? Right? Not as ostriches that are burying our heads in the sand uh and and
waiting for the time to turn right? And I think that you know what the what progressives and and folks on the left have allowed once again is for the right to co op the language uh and and turn it into turn something that is very positive which is about you know what, what is what is the opposite of being woke? And that's the thing that I say to folks, like, why is there no pushback when they're like, oh, they're gonna be the world kind? So what is your
preference for somebody to be asleep? What is your what is your preference for us to be unconscious? Right? And because what does that allow you to do if the rest of us are in slumber? Right? It allows for you to run rough shot and have no accountability and no responsibility for the things that you do because they're nobody paying attention. So like, I think that you know, you, we have to reclaim um words that we allow the
radical right to take over. And then but what people do, like what you know white moderates want to do, uh, and democrats want to do, is that they want to run from it. Oh we're not woke, you know, we're just like everybody else. No I'm not, No, I am not And that is okay, right, Like I don't want to go through my life asleep, and neither should you, because I don't know what good comes to anybody um when they don't live their lives consciously and on their
own terms. So I think that there needs to be consistent pushed back to that, to um the negative connotation that folks have allowed um uh, white supremacists on on the right to to attribute to a word that was birthed out of black people deciding right and recognizing that, like,
you know, we live consciously. So what about the rest of you, Because while the rest of you get to walk around and pretend that like, ain't nothing going on, we're the ones that have to look around and make sure that, like we're as safe as we can possibly be. If black people were to walk around their lives in a slumber, we would all be dead, right, like, so let let us you know, I think that it's important to push back against against those against those negative connotations.
And you do it every week and every day with both of your shows, And I'm so grateful for your work and grateful for your voice. Danielle. Where can folks keep up with all of the amazing stuff that you've got going on? Thank you? Um, yes, folks can keep up with me. Woke a app is my Day through Friday.
You can get that on anywhere that you get your podcast, whether it is on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, if you want the video version of that daily show, you can get that at Patreon dot com, slash wi g f UM, where the video show is up every single day uh. And then you can follow me on Twitter where I'm extraordinarily active at D two spend E, t w O C and t F and newly to taktok uh Danielle Moody Underscore, so you can check me out there to
where I am getting very very little. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi, you can be just at Hello at tangdi dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangdi dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me bridgetad. It's a production of I Heart Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Stricklands our executive producer. Tara Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michaelmato is
our contributing producer. I'm your host to Bridget Dodd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, check out the i heeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. H