Book bans are on the rise in the US, just ask GirlsWhoCode.

on the Internet. Banning books is nothing new in the United States, but since we've seen the number of books banned in schools and libraries skyrocket as extremists parents groups consolidate power in local school districts, and according to the American Library Association, most of the books being challenged are about black or lgbt Q characters or deal with issues

of race and inclusion. Earlier this year, four children's books from Girls Who Code, an organization that exists to close the gender gap in technology and change the image of what a programmer looks like and does. We're pulled from Pennsylvania's Central York District. Girls who Code CEO Dr Rica Barrett says that at a time when girls are on bionary, young people should be being encouraged to get more involved in technology, making it harder to access girls who code

books is especially troubling. Now, don't get it twisted. Dr Barrett is a doctor, but you can call me Arrica. Especially with women who have PhD s. I don't out of my way to really hit that doctor because I feel like it's so easy to be like, oh, just first name and I don't know. I I appreciate you letting me call you Treka, but I am a stickler for the doctor. When it's a woman. I am with you, and you immediately re engendered rapport right away. So I

was like, call me to Rica. But don't get it twisted. If anyone does not refer to be as Dr Barrett, especially if they're referring to other folks by that um sort of you know title, I get upset immediately because it has happened to me where I've been in conversations where there is a phone call or a meeting and a gentleman is being referred to as Dr so and so, and then I'm getting the tarika, and I've actually paused and said to people, know it's Dr Barrett, which sometimes

you know, engenders some awkward silence. But to be honest, that honorific is nothing to play with, you know. I it took me four and a half years and two children, birthing two children to get it. So I really appreciate that you you kind of noted that too, Yeah, of course, of course, Well that's a great place to start. How did you wind up at Girls who Code? Oh my gosh, Bridget, that's such a great question. And I never thought that I would be sitting here CEO of Girls who Code,

one of the largest girls organizations on the planet. And you know, I am just overcome with pride because again I just could not have imagine that I would be doing what I'm doing today, leading this movement to inspire and educate and equipped students you know, who identify as girls or non binary with all these computing skills that they need to really take advantage of twenty one century opportunity.

And as I reflect on how I got here, you know, I come to this space first and foremost as an educator and activists, and I've been working on issues of education reform for basically my entire career. And you know,

it goes back further. I had this incredible mom. You know, I grew up partly in Kingston, Jamaica and Brooklyn, New York, who taught me not just the power of education, but always to go into spaces see the type of work that needed to happen, that needs to get done but wasn't happening, and to have the agency that I could actually myself be the change that I wanted to see. And you know, I've had these incredible opportunities, milestones along the way that I just feel blessed to have had.

I at one point was working in the New York City Department of Education, where I had a chance to really take what was instilled in me, you know, when I was younger, and put it into practice. Um. I've always been drawn to supporting the kids who have been the most marginalized. And I worked within this office in the d OE that really focused on kids who were

significantly off track academically. So we're talking about kids who were not going to graduate on time, and you know, many people have frankly written off and most of them were poor black and brown kids who looked, you know, just like me when I was their age. And you know, I had this once in a lifetime opportunity to leave the team that was going to build a first of

its kind high school focused on software engineering. Um. But it was also this incredible moment because this school, as intended, as folks came together and believed should be built, was going to be what we call a quote unquote read school, and they very much wanted to be the school where you would test in. And you know, as an educator,

I knew what this was going to look like. Relying on test courts would mean that for our most marginalized students, for our kids of color, black and brown kids, they were not going to have the advantage here. And we know the reasons for that poverty, disinvestment in low income neighborhoods, and certainly racial bias and testing. And you know, as I was a senior leader at the time, but relatively knew in my journey, I knew that this was going

to be risky for me. But I somehow knew in my spirit that I would have to fight against screening and rally support for opening this school to any kid.

And it didn't matter if this was going to disrupt the notions that are key stakeholders held right venture capitalists and tech entrepreneurs who were keen on having this school look a certain way, and today I'm just so proud that any young person in New York City interest in computer science has a chance to attend the Academy for Software Engineering and for the kids who are there them are graduating on time and bridget you know, getting that

school off the ground was absolutely one of my proudest accomplishments as an educator, even to this day, leading Girls Who Code, But it, you know, was also a powerful lesson that you always have to exist somehow at the intersection of opportunity and bravery, and if you get a shot to disrupt the status quo, you have to take it. And you know, I could have answered this question really six simply and just said it was during the pandemic.

Took this job when our founder rush Mustajohn came to me and said it's time, Um, But I wanted to give you some of the color that shaped why I said yes during a pandemic to becoming CEO of Girls Who Code. You know, my grandmother had a sixth grade education. She worked on our family's farm, you know, after her

mother died, helping to raise her seven younger siblings. I she could never, in her wildest dreams have imagined that I would be doing what I'm doing now, working toward lifting up all these young people and giving them opportunity. All of those experiences I just told you be at the New York City Department of Education or other things when I was a teacher, All these milestones led me to this moment, you know, saying yes to being CEO.

And since we launch this organization in we've reached five hundred thousand students with our programming, a hundred and fifteen thousand of whom are college and workforce age, you know,

young women and non binary students. And you know what fuels me to do this work every day is that I know that when we address this growing gender gap in tech, which is very much our mission, we're empowering young people, this next generation, especially those who have been overlooked, to seek out that driving and exciting careers of the future, because we know that it's going to afford them this improved quality of life and upward mobility that has been

elusive too far too many. We are so fond of that saying I'm sure you've heard it. If you if you can see it, you can be it. But if you can't see it, you can't be it. And I know that Girls Whose Girls who Code is doing so much of the work of helping young women and non binary folks see themselves in positions and rooms and spaces

that maybe they haven't really been shown before. And so when when Girls who Code books and programming are then not included in school curriculums or outright band like we know happened in some school districts, it's a problem, not just because you know you're you're banning this content which you find, like quote controversial, but also because it creates a situation where I think it sends a message that there's something wrong with disrupting that status quo about what

rooms women and non buying it and people can find themselves in. Yeah, Bridget, you've said that so well, it's frightening right like as you say it. Even though we've been going through this since we learned of the book band, I still feel like such, you know, chills and a sense of disbelief when you break it down that way. To say that I was unsettled by the news would be an understatement. And you know you talked about what it meant to not be represented. I might be the

CEO of Girls with Code, this incredible nonprofit. But you know, I'm also an educator and a mother, and we know how transformative books can be for young people. I remember when my daughter, she was much younger than she's actually applying for high school now, when our fiction series came out and she looked at one of the covers and she said, Mom, there's a brown girl on the cover.

Now did I don't remember exactly what year that was, but to think that my daughter, in this modern era would be excited about that representation is an indication of how scarce it is for a brown girl, a black girl, you know, a girl wearing a h job, you know, a student who's non binary, a student who's differently able to see themselves represented in books, in media. And you know,

books can open up so many doors. Right, We're talking about essential life skills, learning about yourself, the world around you, your possibilities, what you can be. And so when this banning of our books happened, you know, it was a setback. For all the reasons that you just said, Bridget We're talking about a setback in terms of our fight for an equitable, safe and diverse world. Um, you know we

always say at girls to code. As you said, you can't be what you can't see, we say all the time because when it comes to tech in particular, our girls, are young women, are non binary students do not see themselves represented in the ways that they should. And when we silence or ignore marginalized groups, we outwardly tell them that they don't matter, that their stories don't matter. And

you know, we know this to be true. But if you ask a girl, or if we think about how we came up in school, we learned, you know, in school and through culture about the Bill Gates of the world, Mark Zuckerberg, Albert Einstein, Neil Armstrong, if we go back, but when if you ask your girls, how many of them have heard of Katherine Johnson or Mary Jackson, or Grace Hopper or Jeane Bartek or a Lovelace. They're looking at you like what, Like, what are you talking about?

These incredible pioneers who made enormous contributions to the field. But yet the cultural representations that have defined text since the nine eighties, you know, completely diminish and ignore those

incredible contributions. And it was there was a certain amount of intentionality there, and so we're counteracting these powerful cultural stereotypes and images that tell our girls and young women that a programmer looks like a boy in a hoodie right along in a basement, or some maniac running a company in Silicon Valley. It's important for little girls to

see themselves reflected in the maths, sciences, and technologies. According to research from the Gina Davis Institute on Gender and Media, kids implicitly start thinking of technology as a male pursuit as early as age seven, a bias that continues well into adulthood. This is exactly the kind of bias that

Girls who Code is combating. They're helping a new generation of little ones get excited about technology and see themselves reflected in it through initiatives like Doja Code, a new partnership with Dojakat that let's listeners engage with her music

videos entirely through code. Before girls are even double digits, before they're even ten, they've internalized these cultural touchstones, and these are beliefs that end up resonating with them throughout their entire lives elementary school, middle school, high school, college, and even into the workforce. And so that's why, in terms of what we do at girls to code. We make sure that we're putting forward women in tech spotlights.

We make sure that we're doing things like what you've seen launching the world's first quotable music video with do Jaquet, helping girls to understand that it's not some crazy binary where you either want to make money or you want to lift up your community, that there's a path for you to bring your passion and creativity and the change you want to see in your community in the world by embracing tech. Because we know that these powerful binaries

are still at play. That you can either you know, be some guy going in space and a rocket ship or using your money to do what you want to do,

or you know, as opposed to changing the world. And we're making sure that our community understands that they can have the impact that they want to have, that they belong within tech, and that they can you know, see those representations and frankly, because we need for them to do that, they're going to be the ones who actually bring us the tech that's representative of our communities in the world, and so it's critical that we change what's

happening absolutely. You know, when I first started this podcast, I I kind of went into it with a similar kind of misconception that you've just described. I'm sad to say where I had sort of internalized this story that you know, technology was a boys club and that women and people of color have been trying to break into this boys club, and that that's kind of where we were.

But in doing a little bit of research, I was like, oh, wait, actually we were there all along, and exactly just because just because our stories weren't always told and we didn't always get the shine or whatever, doesn't mean we weren't there. And so it took this kind of re calibrating internally and be like, no, this is our rightful domain. We have a right state of space and show up here absolutely.

And you know, when you think about it, tech intersects every facet of our lives, right you have, be it voting rights, healthcare, safety, and security, and there's no opting out of tech. I think what you said is so profound because we have been not only consumers and users,

but certainly the creativity, all the different things. It's just that these things, these accomplishments, aren't to amplify, you know, and often it's the same folks who are getting be it funding for the next big idea or recognition around a given gadget or its influence. And part of what we do is that we maintain steady drumbeat making sure

that we actually lift up the stories. Because when I think about even if you want to say about our students, who you know, our new technology in some cases are just starting out, I am blown away by their projects and the way they think about things. And to say nothing of our alums that include students who have you know, created all kinds of things like you know, um an app to stop cyber bullying, or we have another alum who you know, galvanized a whole group of folks to

make um ppe through three D printing. And these are young people, and so I'm just so grateful that your show is another opportunity to kind of lift up these voices. Let's take a quick break at our back as bleak as we all know, things can sometimes feel, the kids are actually all right. With encouragement from girls who code, young people are tackling some of the most pressing challenges

of our time using technology. Some of the stories that are coming out of girls who code, the things that they make are incredible, and things so whenever I'm asked, you know, on this show, we have to talk about so many things that are dark or depressing or sad when it comes to technology. But the thing that gives me hope time and time again is young people like those And if you give that same girl a computer and some knowhow and some confidence, the things that you

can accomplish our limitless, limitless, absolutely limitless. And it's also the things that are sitting in front of us that we sit down as grown folks and feel paralyzed and think are intractable issues. You know, we had one student who came up with a gun safety pattern where okay, you bring this weapon within X distance of a school or community that's been deemed where that's not allowed. It doesn't work. These are you know, ideas that should shape

policy and the way that we think about things. We have like twelve year olds working on the lead water crisis, you know, and it ranges right like the among my favorites, would these students who are like, wait a second, why aren't there any black hair care products? They're actually accessible you know in this way. Um or climate change or negative you know, anti immigration policies and all kinds of things. I'm with you. It's when you feel downtrodden that you

recognize that our young people are not. And that's why you have to continue to have programming like we offer at Girls Who Code that allows young people to have these on ramps to be able to gain this exposure because they're deeply excited. They're almost inherently entrepreneurial in the way that they think. They don't even necessarily think about it as like, well, I don't need to join X company.

They're all about the next thing that's going to make things better for everyone, and that's just sort of how they approach these challenges and it's so inspiring. Yeah, I have to say I see a little bit of that same inspiration in the way that you and the entire Girls who Code community responded to the news of Girls

who Code books being being banned. There is a line in your LinkedIn post that I really, I really liked where you quoted the co founder of Reshma, this is an opportunity to start more clubs, get more girls to code, and to get more girls to become economically free. And so, you know, using what I think was like a pretty galvanizing, horrible moment, these books being banned to say well, no,

we're not going to retreat. We're going to use this as an opportunity to continue building the changes that we want to see. As inspiring as Girls Who Code is not,

everybody feels that way. Across the country, extremist groups are banning books from libraries and classrooms that highlight inclusion, and in September four, books from Girls Who Code were amongst the books that have been restricted or diminished for either limited or indefinite periods of time in Pennsylvania's Central York District.

The books called The Friendship of Code, Team BFF, Race to the Finish, Lights Music Code, and Spotlight on Coding Club all follow the adventures of a group of young girls in a coding club at their school, kind of like the Babysitters Club series, only for coding. To be clear, these bands are not prompted by a collection of just one off parent complaints. According to Pan America, the large majority of book bands underway today are not spontaneous, organic

expressions of citizen concern. Rather, they reflect the work of a growing number of advocacy organizations that have made demanding censorship of books and ideas in schools part of their mission. Girls Who Code founder Rush Misogyny didn't take all of this sitting down. This is an opportunity to start more clubs, get more girls to code, and get more girls to

be come economically free. She just bonded to the news of the bands in a LinkedIn post, and thanks to the vocal support of students, teachers, and parents in the community who organized and thought back, the band was defeated for now at least. I appreciate so much that you

named that. We approached it and really turned this horrible moment on its head and saw it as a way to bring together our community and frankly, to raise awareness among other folks who may not understand what a big deal banning a book frankly as benign as this one, you know what that meant um and banning books and other it's not just our book, right, other diverse educational material is intended to keep children and specifically our girls

from accessing opportunity, and that is frightening. And this book band that we're talking about was part of a larger nationwide movement over six titles that were removed from shelves this past year alone, And when you look at the breakdown of what that meant. Nearly the books discussed racism in America. Of them featured characters of color and an additional address lgbt Q, you know, plus themes and what

does it mean? You know when like, if we're keeping children from learning about their history, seeing themselves, or hearing stories about people who look like them, we're in trouble, right because then nothing is off limits. And you know, that kind of exposure could severely hamper a young person's ability two just gain the knowledge that could be transformative for them. And you know, when you ask me what

does this work? Like, how does it continue? It made us It just kind of I think, I don't know, heighten the fire in the belly, if you will, bridget in terms of just saying, oh, hell no, we're not doing this us. We are going to double down. We were already deeply committed. We've already named this our tenure anniversary. We intend to teach a million girls. We are not scared because we know that they're the ones who are

going to change this world. And every program that we have focuses on sisterhood and you know, values, the skills and relationships that our students are building that carry them through our program and long after the programmatic work with US ends, and so for us, it was all about sort of reinforcing. We were able to double down on our commitment to prepare young people for the jobs of the future, and especially young women of color, because they're

the ones who are going to shape industry right. They are the ones who are going to really disrupt the status quo. And for folks who don't know about girls who code, you know, we are all about closing the gender gap in new entry level tech jobs. By and for us, we start as early as third grade and

go all the way through college and even workforce programming. UM. And you know, there's so much that I can talk to you about being our you know, summer immersion program, we even have self paced programming during the summer or free after school clubs. We are getting you know, we're reaching girls at every stage of the pipeline, driving their interest,

keeping them excited, and ensuring that they persist. And I'll point to a couple of things that we've done, you know that just bring me so much hope and excitement. So during the pandemic, we had to pivot so much of our programming and I can you know, spend forever bridget telling you about this. But one of the things that was really striking for me, especially as CEO, is that when we survey our alumni community, we learned that thirty of them had had a job offer or internship rescinded,

and that our seniors were still looking for work. And while we were not experts in workforce development, we had just started to see our cohorse move into that older domain of going into the workforce. We knew we couldn't sit by on the sidelines and watch all this progress that these young women and non binary students had made fall to the wayside, and so we launched programming that

just met these needs. We had hiring summits where we had more than a thousand students participate in each one, with really strong numbers of students being hired from those experiences. We launched Girls to Code Work Prep, you know, which is like an internship program giving young women exposure to you know, corporate partners and careers and women in tech. But two programs that I really want to double click

on our our Leadership Academy. We just launched this. It's a four month pilot program with a hundred students from eight universities who are majoring in everything from computer science to apply mathematics. Of the Leadership Academy. Students come from historically underrepresented groups, and we are giving these students a chance to experience these dynamics sessions and events and projects.

They work in small groups. They're going to be meeting with career advisors who are going to help them explore and prepare for their path forward. We have you know, hiring fares that they're going to participate in speed networking events with you know, technologists. They're even going to be a part of a Technical interview UM Prep boot camp.

But the thing that really, you know, the icing on the cake for me, is that these students are also going to work with an advisor to design and propose and execute a give back project that's going to strengthen their skills, boost their resume, you know, elevate education career opportunities for their community as well, which I think is

just so powerful. And then another program that I'll briefly mention is that we just launched our Technical Interview Prep last month, and in this particular program, we're working with thousands of students who are interested in breaking into the tech for workforce every day, and we know that for a lot of young people, especially on people of color, the technical interview is the most challenging and daunting part

of the hiring process. And we've also known that the folks who succeed at the technical interview always have some quote insider access to give them a leg up. And we know that there aren't very often affordable and accessible resources to help students prepare. And you know, our students don't have thousands of dollars to spend on, you know, this one step in the job seeking process to get and they also don't always have the social capital right in terms of who they can turn to to find

out more about what these technical interviews entail. And so we just felt it was way past time to level the playing field, you know, for everyone, regardless of background. And so I'm so excited that these programs are just a couple of the many ways in which we are determined to reach our students are most marginalized students at every point in the pipeline, you know, starting as early as elementary school and all ways all the way through

college and beyond. More. After a quick break, let's get right back into it. Something that you said earlier. There is no opting out of tech making sure that particularly students and young people who are the most marginalized have access to you know, the technical preps. God, I've I've been in some tech interviews and I know what you mean, Like that technical skills assessment is like I'll just say

I agree and I know what you mean. And you know, I think just for the kind of world that we're living in, technology from its it impacts everything from how our candidates are elected, how folks run for office, how people vote, how you get your groceries, whether or not you wind up being criminalized by the state or over surveilled. Like there is no way to opt out of this. And yet if if people who are marginalized, I feel like that they are like shut out of those conversations.

They don't have a uh you know, I don't feel like they should be able to take up space there. We are just saying like, okay, well this is going to be happening to you. You will not have the tools and know how the that that you know the skills to even participate in this thing that we know is going to be such a big part of all of our lives exactly. And you know, Bridget, I don't know how I can possibly add more that what you

just said was so astute. We refuse to accept that notion, right, that our young people are going to be, you know, on the sidelines, that they're only going to be users or consumers, and that they're going to watch this tech you know, world unfold around them. That's just not what we believe in. And everything we've done has positioned them front and center and demanded, frankly, that the tech industry give them a seat at the table we are in.

And we are still talking about women holding roughly somewhere around of all computer science jots, right, and when you look at black and Latin X women, we're talking about that roughly being about five for those groups. You know, more than half of the students in our Girls who Code community come from historically underrepresented groups. These are young women who are motivated, right, They're ready to learn, but don't often have the same resources or opportunities as their peers.

And everyone needs to acknowledge that circumstances are different. Their circumstances might calls them to work multiple jobs while carrying a full college course load, balancing homework and caregiving responsibilities. They don't always have access to the resources they need

to succeed. And the thing that I have to underscore is that these young women often embody bravery and resilience, the very equalities that companies are falling over themselves to identify in their workforce, but at the same time are not at all reflected in conventional academic credentials that these tech firms overwhelmingly rely on. And this can be so discouraging for our students. You know, computer science, as you said,

it touches our lives at every intersection. You know, we're talking about the fastest growing, highest paying sector in our economy. Employment is expected to grow by eleven between and that's going to translate into a half a million new jobs.

And you know, there's no world where we can just sit here and tell our girls are young people, are black and brown people, that the best jobs out there, the highest pain, the fastest growing, the ones that are actually going to shape the future of our world, aren't

for them. And so, you know, part of what I try to do a Sea of Girls Who Code is constantly remind any of the tech companies with whom I come in contact, that they need to shift their mindset around talent, around academic credentialing, around how they think about you know, the young people that are sitting in front of them, you know, knocking at that door, and that they can't afford to leave a single ounce of tech

talent on the table. And so you know, everything we design at girls who code contemplates this and sure that they, you know, are young people are equipped with the tools they need to be able to succeed um And of course I talk about, you know, the really punishing work cultures and you know, difficult environments that also cause you know, of women to leave the tech field by the age of thirty five and bridget They're just so much complexity there.

But for me, you know, my work is twofold. It's teaching girls computer science, but also holding industry to account and making sure that we are constantly pushing this culture that tells our most marginalized young people that they don't belong in tech. I am so grateful that you're doing the work of pushing back against that culture and really

shaking up the status quo. And honestly, part of me feels like if someone is trying to ban your books because you're you're taking that table kind of doing something right. Thank you, Bridget. I appreciate that. So let's say that someone listening they have a young person in their life, a young woman or a young non binary person, and they want to get involved with Girls who Code. How can folks listening get get involved? Thank you so much

for that question, anyone who's listening. You know, I always say, first and foremost, go to Girls who Code dot com. Check out our website because we do list all of our programs. There are so many entry points, Bridget, and

that's something I'm deeply proud of. You know, we started with that flagship, you know, seven weeks summer immersion program with twenty girls in a borrowed conference room in New York City learning how to code from nine in the morning until four in the afternoon, and we've expanded so much since then. This past summer, I think we taught over six thousand girls computer science during our summer programming alone.

So if there are girls or non binary students, female identifying folks who want to be a part of that kind of experience, that is fantastic. In certain that will come around, come summer, but are free after school clubs from grades three through twelve. Those are absolutely available in your community. And if your parents thinking, or a librarian or community leader or someone else thinking I don't have this at my school or I don't have this, you

can actually start one. And we always encourage folks to do that, and you can look for that information on our website. And then beyond that, I mentioned our technical interview preps. So if you're a young person thinking about entering the sector and wanting to sharpen your skills for that, you know, Dreadedge Technical Interview, we have something for you. Um and you know all of this, we have so many,

so much programming. We have college loops across college campuses, um, you know, across the country, and you know, there's so many entry points. I'm hopeful that your listeners will think about how they can, you know, encourage a young person. Ask a girl, you know, a daughter, a niece, an intern, a mentee, whether she's considered you know, a career in tech.

And all of us have a rule to play because we can also push back when we hear stereotypes about who belongs in the sector, and we can keep pushing a conversation that says that more folks should have a seat at the table. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi? You can reach us at Hello at tang godi dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangdi dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was

created by me Bridget Tod. It's a production of iHeart Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Tara Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. And then I have to him with and then I have to m it