Ashley Reese on Tumblr, fandom, and building communities online- LIVE FROM BROOKLYN

please enjoy. This is a live podcast recording of There Are No Girls on the Internet. And Bridget hod is the creator and host of I Heart Radio is critically claimed there are No Girls the Internet, and she's the director of Communication of Ultra Violet and conversation with Ashley Reese. Thank you so much, thank you. Hello, Uh, thank you for that warm introduction. My name is Bridget Todd and I am the producer and host of I Heart Radio's

tech and culture podcast There Are No Girls on the Internet. Uh. If you don't know what that podcast is, uh, we really are interested in telling the story of all the ways that people who have been traditionally and historically marginalized. So people of color, queer folks, trans folks, black folks, all those amazing people who make the Internet what it is.

We're really interested in telling the story of the ways that we show up or do not show up online on the Internet and technology, and what that often really looks like is folks who are living at the intersection and the guests that I am so excited to bring on is no exception. Ashley Reese is a writer and cultural critic. She is as comfortable talking about politics and writing as she is tweeting about her hatred for mint chocolate. Welcome Ashley Reese. No, I love it. Rack up that telfeazy.

It's like, why do I have all my belongings with me? Right? No? I love it? I love it? Um So I I mean, I would feel I would be even missed to not sort of start this conversation just acknowledging that we're in this moment that feels very heavy and very fraught for so many of us, And so I wanted to start by asking, actually, just generally as a person, how are you? Um? I feel like my response to that, whenever anyone's asked me that recently is yeah, pretty much like full disclosure

and I don't want like, you know, I'm sorry. I mean it sucks. But like literally, in the last like a month or so, I found out my boyfriend's cancer came back. He's gonna be okay. I got laid off from my job at Netflix. Um, and then it was in the I've been in the hospital with my boyfe's he's really going to be okay. He's fine, he just

had surgery. It's fine. But yeah, it's just it's stressful, like um so, and then you have like personal stuff on top of like any time I like check the news, it's like the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. So it's like, so that's why my responses. Yeah that I feel how many of you all out there can identify with that noise when someone's like how are you? Yeah, it seems like a lot of us solidarity. I gotta. I mean, that's a great place to start. You know,

you are a prolific tweeter, prolific user social media. She's a great Twitter follower. I definitely recommend following. Um. What role would you say that, especially when things are really dark and hard, what role would you say that social media has and how you are showing up and coping, Like are you using social media to you know, find community or share resources or just like tweet memes and nihilistic jokes and gallows humor like or a combination like

like what does it look like for you? So, I mean, I'm not someone who's gonna act like I'm above doom scrolling in these situations. I know that, Like there's always a tweet that's like you don't have to do this right now, you can like log off and take a break, And I'm like, so right, and I'm just like scrolling, scrolling, so true, and I'm just like retweet, angry tweet, retweet.

So you know, it's this kind of thing where like I know that, um, social media can sometimes feel like the worst possible thing you can be on when something

really fucked up happening. But um, I mean, I guess if I do get some comfort from it, it's from seeing that other people are, you know, just as angry as you are about something, or like, you know, even if you're doing something practical, like me screaming into the void about like gun controls and maybe doing anything practical, I'm not like yelling in Ted Cruz's ear, Not that that would do anything anyway, but um, you know, I guess if I have to do something practical, it's like, oh,

you see a go fund me for like a family, that's like dealing with like the aftermath of like something devastating happened, like you know, the school shooting the other day. Me retweeting that is doing and like donating is doing something ten times more useful. It is a more useful use of my time and energy than you know, retweeting someone I agree with. And I'm like, yeah, that's the right take. I agree, Like you know, it's so I don't know, social media is kind of a double edged

sword on that front and every other front. Yeah, that's I mean, I completely agree, and I feel like that experience, I guess. I I when the when the news of the shooting first happened, I really caught myself going into this weird, dark rabbit hole of takes like who has

a bad take? Who has a good take? And I sort of caught myself and I was like, I'm in a place where I'm not putting out anything that's going to be useful or thoughtful or good for anybody, and I should probably just log off right, Like does me yelling at Mattaglysia's first bad tweet, like really do mean yeah, I don't see we we we knew what it's like. It makes me feel good for a second of like dunk, but like he's not seeing it. My followers already agree

with me. It's kind of like, okay, I'd had my little bit of like, you know, just I don't know, getting my anger out in this like very we're pretty well. But I mean again, I think that like it's really easy to kind of act like we need to be like above certain things, but like we're on the internet for good reasons and also deeply idiotic reasons, and sometimes I you know, maybe it's not like a helpful thing.

It's not more helpful than like share a go fund me for like a family, But like, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with kind of getting your like you know, that angry energy out if it's something a little mostly harmless, like I think Matt like dunking on Mattie Glaciers is mostly harmless. So you know, I don't know that's the I mean, it's social me again, it's like the good stuff and the bad stuff. So you alluded earlier about like the reasons why certain folks show

up online? What like what like what brings you to social media? Like why are you someone who has a prolific social media presence? What brought you to the Internet in the first place? What is that of those experience has been like for you? I don't know. I think about when someone's like, what brought you to the Internet, I'm like, I don't know, Like Horny Draco Harmony fan fiction in two thousand four, like maybe that's what brought me there, um live journal, which I still haven't I've

never deleted my account. It's like I have a completely like you know, just a complete archive of every like crazy thing I thought about in two thousand four. Like, so that's kind of fun. So I mean, I feel like I had my natural progression of like blogging, and then you know, you create your Facebook or my Space whatever.

Then you make your Tumbler, and then you spend all day on Tumbler, and then I don't know, I kind of, you know, as we saw in the last resation some that somehow I just kind of fell off Tumbler and went to Twitter and so, and then you have Instagrams, and so I don't know what briefing the Internet. I've just always had a big mouth, and I guess some people like to hear what I have to say um old things. So like that's when I think about, like what brought me to Internet. I think like fandom was

a big part of it. I feel like if I wasn't involved in all these like fandoms and meeting people through like live journal and Tumbler when I was in high school and college, like, I think I'd be pretty normal on the Internet, just like I'm on Instagram and here's like my dog or something like that. But no, instead I'm like tweeting about like remember this like weird fan fiction when we were like in seventh grade or you know, stuff like that. So I'm on the Internet

because of weird ship. I mean, that's that's what brought me to the Internet. And that's actually one of the reasons why. You know, I make a podcast about the Internet, and oftentimes it's about things like harassment and all the different ways that the Internet. Yeah, I will get into it, but yeah, I mean I what brings me hope about

my experience online is weirdos. I really believe in the power of a collective of people weirdo us who care about the Internet, care about the health of the Internet, care that they can express their weird interests on the Internet. And I believe in the power of those weirdos to make the Internet a place where people want to spend their time. I mean, I feel like the Internet used

to feel more like I mean, I don't know. Maybe this is again the perspective of someone who was like on live journal a bunch all through high school and then was on Tumbler all through college and stuff like that, But I feel like in a lot of ways, the Internet has gone bigger but also like smaller, Like I feel like it's so much hard to find to like not just find these like little enclaves of being like a weirdo, but also to feel like safe in them.

Like this that feels very like you know, gooey, but I mean, like sincerely, like I mean, I feel like you can, like I mean, in the live general days, you can have your little community where you're like a literal like the live journal community where like you're and it can be like a lot of community, even like you don't have like random people who just want to harass you kind of like come in there, um. On Tumbler.

I do feel like it was a little more insulated to Yeah, like some have something from a fandom I have no interest in would come across my page and I'd be like, what's going on over there? But like it wasn't a thing where I really felt involved in

or had to get involved in. Now I can't like tweet anything about like anything without someone being like, well, like, I feel like, I, yeah, I really fucking hate strawberries, and someone's like, well, I only can only subsist on strawberries, So this is like really really wrong of you to say. I mean, I just feel like it's it's harder in some ways to have these spaces that don't feel like you're always in danger of the wrong people getting ahold of it. Um. But yeah, I don't really know, Like

I don't know. I feel like I'm like thirty one now, so I've been on the internet for like half my life and shout out to one year old it's fad to like being in your thirties and still being really online and still like reading fan fiction. Yeah, I agree. Um no, like literally, if I like open my like tabs on my phone and be like Ao three, Ao three. I so tempted to ask you to do that, but I mean put you on the spot. Let you want to.

I know, is that like whenever I'm in a spot where like I'm feeling deeply, like in a dark place or something, it's very nice to have that comfort of like, let's see what like bad fan fiction I can read right now just to like, you know, past the time. I love it. Let's say a quick break at our back.

You know, we talked a little bit about this um before we got started, but I think the experience of being a particularly a black woman who has a pretty big platform and a pretty big digital footprint online, I don't know how the fun that happened. Yeah you, I mean, you're hilarious and really trying to be humble. I'm like, where are you people coming from? M But you know, can you talk a bit about what that ex here? Yet?

It has been like for you? Like I sometimes feel like it can be a tight rope and I am very um mindful of how I show up online because of it. I'm curious how it has impacted the way that you show up on online spaces. So you know, I can't act like this has all been bad to

have like an audience. I mean when I was I had to go fund me to like raise money to like swear our medical bills because when I got laid off, that meant that, like my my boyfriend is insured through me, and we're in America, so that means that, like your insurance is really like you know in limbo. So you know, yeah, having a big platform allowed me to be able to actually get a good amount of money to be able to not worry about medical bills, like I'm not going

to act like I'm That's how that's unimportant. But also it gets to the point where, like you know, when I really am on, I really was online because of online fandoms like that really is what kept me on these little quarters on the internet. And then you know, I did like, you know writing as my career, I did a lot of political writing. I was. I mean, it's hard to not be political for me just in

my like existence as a person. And I feel like, I don't know something around the time election, I just got like a slew of people, which is like the wrong time to get a lot of attention. Um and I don't know, people just kept coming because I think that when you see this, someone has a big like a lot of like a large Twitter following or something, you're like, oh, this is a person worth following to follow. I like, I don't know if I'm the right person for you, guys. I seem to be pissing you off

every single day. Um, so you know it's it's good and bad. But in a lot of ways, like I've had to be more mindful of like what I post. Like I try not to write anything too personal on like Twitter, for example, anymore, because someone will always find some reason like dunk on you or like they'll have screenshots and then like five months after you posted something to like but what about when you said this? So

I'm like, why is this in your phone? Like you know, just to like pull up at the right moment um some weird out of context things. So you know, I've had to be a little more sterile on that front. I'll still post, like a still post some weird ship Like I mean, it gets to the point where it's like I realized that, Like I don't know, Amy Klobaschar follows me, but I'm like, am I really going to write about like I don't know, like Dobby Hagrid fan

fiction right now like a smigle. Like I'm like, I'm like, you know what she her people decided to follow me, this is what they're gonna get, so you know, and if for those of you who know, you know, if you know, you know, Um, I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna do this. So it's it's it's strange, but you have to I just have to be really smart about it so that people don't like find my number and

call me and yell at me, which has happened before. Yeah, that's happened to you, like from things that you've written on jez Bell about certain elected officials that that elected officials fans found your you and your partner's number and called you in the middle of the night to harrass you. Yeah, it was. It was weird. Um. So it's like things like that where you just don't really feel totally safe.

But um, yeah, I don't know. Now, everything I'm saying is like, oh, is it worth happing all these people following on the internet? And maybe not? But I can't I mean, I can't help. But I'm not gonna not have a big mouth anymore. I'm just gonna be a little bit more selective about what I'm a big mouth about. Yeah, I I love you know, shout out to women with big mouths who do not shut the funk up, I am. I may we raise them, maybe be them, Um, you know,

speaking of that, Like, there's one topic. So I also have a big mouth, and I use my platform to talk about whatever I want. But there has been one topic recently that I have really not spoken up about because I have seen the way that any person who speaks up about it sort of gets silenced and harassed. And that is the Johnny Depp amber her trial, right, So, like, I tweeted one thing and then I quickly deleted it,

and I have not tweeted anything since. But you're actually someone who really is vocal about it and like uses your platform to have conversations about it. And I guess I'm curious. You know, I love the Internet and I'm hopeful about the Internet. But when I think about the state of the Internet, specifically for survivors, I'm so concerned that we're building an Internet ecosystem where it's not okay for survivors to speak up. And I'm wondering, like, what

do you think about that? I think my main I think my omissional thought is like I feel like that Internet has been here for a long time. I feel like that there's been like a movement of pushback against that because I feel like that's the default. The default is to silence survivors and to tell people to shut

up and to you know, do that. So I feel like there's been a movement to push against that, and I guess recently it's kind of felt like it's like faltered a little bit, you know, um just add that's the list of things to feel like a little pessimisticly.

But I mean, I'm ultimately an optimist, but like you see some of these like, you know, I'm not a conspiracy theory really person, but like I can't even like look up like a how to video on YouTube without being like suggested like five times Johnny Depp like to really like you know, owned Amberger. You know, I'm just

like I don't look up anything about this. I maybe, like right the occasional like tweet about it, but like when it's like just being infected into like your feeds and everything, it's it's kind of I don't know, it's it's very aggressive and kind of scary. Um. I don't know. It just seems like there's so much regression on so many different levels that like, I think this is just one small part of it. Um. But yeah, it's it's hard to be an optimist on the Internet right now.

I feel like you're either seeing something awful or seeing awful things happen other people and all of stuff. But that's all that's I think that's the reason why I kind of do gravitate towards these like little circles I have that make me feel like again, like safe seems like such. It feels like such a gooey word to me.

But yeah, like when I see something like when I sometimes needs to stop doom scrolling and be like, let me just like talk about something really goofy, Like let me like reminiscent about someone about like dash con with someone you know who gets it or something like that.

Like it feels nice to kind of have these we're facing all this kind of like Internet history to kind of fall back on, to think of, like, oh, yeah, there were times when the Internet was just really funny and really fun and like goofy, and there are still those times. But I don't know, do you have a favorite goofy, funny Internet moment that sticks out to you. Are this one that you that is memorable to you? God,

that's a really good question. Again, this is we're going We're talking about like fifteen years of like everything that's happened on the Internet. I'm like going through my head, like you know, um, okay, Well, dash Con was obviously iconic. Anyone who was on Tumbler during dash Con knows that was maybe like the most hilarious three days on the internet. Um, kind of sad, but like really funny. Um yeah, you know.

Someone asked me this recently, like what was like one of the funniest days on the Internet, And I'm like, I don't know. Is it inappropriate for me to say, like when Trump got COVID, I remember that. I'm sorry not to I'm not making light of that, but just like it was that was a wild night. We can't deny that it was a wild night, right, Like, whether that's appropriate for it was a wild night. I remember I was still working at just Ave all the time, and I was the only one who was like up

that late. My editors were all asleep, and I'm like, I think I need to post this. I think I need to post this. What do I do? I don't know how to do, like and like I don't know. My one coworker who was like definitely like Stone in California is like, I don't know, try it, and I'm just like I'm just gonna post it. And then it was I don't know. For some reason, that was like a very dramatic moment for me where I'm like I got to post the news. Um, but yeah, maybe I

shouldn't say it was a funny day. It was an intense day. It was an intense night on the internet. Um yeah, god, if anyone I mean and also any just like weird fandom saying that's happened, Like I don't know, I really look back on like some like I feel like I don't even have like you've written moments on

the internet. I just have like really weird things I specifically remember, and maybe five other people I know also remember, you know, like a weird like remember when like the Supernatural fans were doing were like really into this one thing and like I wasn't even into the show, but I knew about it, Like you know, I don't know, but yeah, why do you think that fandom has been such a grounding experience about how you show up online, like what is it about fandom and you know, nerding

out about niche things. That is really solidified your online experience, I think because that's where I met so many friends like I have. Probably there are friends I met on live journal and I was sixteen that I'm still friends with to this day. We like hang out around like the city and stuff. And I think that if it wasn't for making friends through these mediums like make you

know I've I probably wouldn't care as much. I woulduld be really easy to kind of like have like a fleeting interest in something and just kind of like going off to something else. But like having friendships that you've developed over this really weird, niche internet like phenomenon is like very special, I feel like, and not every most people don't have that experience, and I think that's what has kept me on the internet. It wasn't like political commentary,

it wasn't like making people mad on Twitter. It was like weird Fanish stuff that you know, put me where I am now, even if you know that's that's been my whole thing. More. After a quick break, let's get right back into it. Yeah, And I wanted to talk briefly about sort of this I guess. I guess I feel like we're in this very weird moment when it comes to the Internet, particularly around people who are traditionally marginalized. I know that you were among the people who were

laid off at Netflix. And Netflix had hired a lot of marginalized folks like we're folks, black women, um, and then laid a lot of them off. And I remember when that happened. The commentary that I saw that was sort of like, hey, hey, that's what you get. It was sort of either a was like, well, what did you expect selling out, you know, for a big, big platform like Netflix, or be like oh Netflix, you know,

go woke, go broke. This is what they get for hiring all these people to champion marginal you know, traditionally marginalized voices. I guess my question is like, why do you think that platforms like Netflix and the Internet seems to be this new kind of ideological battleground where people are really hashing out these partisan ideological fights on these spaces, and it's it seems to be this sort of like push pull for power, like who has it, who doesn't

have it? Um, who can amass it? I mean, what I can speak to just the way I mean, I can't speak anything specifically about my situation, but like I guess I'm just increasingly fascinated by the kind of way that Like again, I think that this just kind of goes back to how the Internet is so much bigger but feel so much smaller now, Like you just really don't have the same kind of privacy and enclaves that

you used to. Anyone who's been online since like the two thousand's probably understands what I mean, where you could really kind of have your own individual spaces talk about these and this wouldn't be something that they're talking about on cable news or that like you know, or a podcast or anything else. It wouldn't be like in the main in the main stream. So I think it's just the they're probably other people can talk about this way

better than I can, or make more eloquently. But like the kind of main streaming of the Internet and main streaming of Internet spaces I think has been probably one of the biggest things that we're seeing in the last like I don't know, decade or so, Like how these kind of things that used to be things that you just kind of talk about, you can only really talk about with a few people, end up becoming like these

huge cultural phenomenons. Um, sure good things have come from it, but like, I don't know, there's something a little there's something lost, There's something that's been lost. I think in having these things kind of proliferate the mainstream, because yeah, there are ways in which they can be used for good.

We're talking about like marginalized people. I remember just be on tumbler, marginalized people talking about their experiences, talking about like just or just griping about something, talking about, oh why can't I find things that are in my size, like things like that, Like those things. Yeah, they became mainstream, and in some ways it's been good. In some ways it's just been like, you know, a magnet for harassment and magnet for people dismissing you, magnet for like, you know,

everything else. So it's it really feels cliche to be like the inter that's a double edged sword, but like what else? How else can you describe it? It's been the place where I've found the most important people in my life and have also experienced one of the some of the most like traumatic, harassing experiences of my life. You know, it's it's something that's been like com modified. It's something that's been like you know, bought and sold and stuff like that. It's just it's weird. It's a

weird place. I guess. Yeah, I feel the exact same way. And it makes me kind of sad because why, you know, I feel like I grew up on the internet kind of like you've moved to my life on the internet.

In a lot of ways, it's my hometown. And you know, it makes me sad when I think about how I used to show up so hopeful and so excited, and you know, I was really the day that my parents brought me a computer, like this bossy, gray nightmare of a thing that took up our whole fucking desk, and you know, the day, the day that they brought that home, it was like they brought me a pair of wings, and it was just discovery. That's the only thing that

I remember being the Internet being about. And now when I show up there, I'm so guarded, I'm so careful. I'm I just don't want to be on the end of what you've just described harassment pylons, and it's so much really bad faith, you know, attacks and stuff like. I mean, I I think we're all kind of guilty of doing this. We're all kind of guilty of like

the easy dunk. We're all kind of guilty of the like work at this like dumb fucking tweet or like something like that, or like something we think is like we're none of us are innocent in that regard. I've definitely complicit. I've been a huge bitch on the internet before um, and so you know, I don't think we're above it. I don't think that all the harassment and everything is like new. I think this has been happening for a long time now, especially for the last decade.

But I do think just for me personally, it's kind of weird that it's gone to a point where like I regularly have to like lock my account in case like the wrong person gets it, or in case like I don't know, some right wing weirdo gets it, and then it just goes into a complete other part of

the Internet that I don't know about. And yeah, you do have I do have to be more guard I can't be quite as like open about my personal life because people are weird and you know, I want to guard something, so yeah, I'll give them like the hot takes. And I don't know, reminiscing about old smut fan fiction from like I keep talking about smutty fan fiction, but really it's a really big part of my life on the internet. Um, but like the other stuff, I really

have to keep closer to, you know, closer the best. Yeah, do you? I mean, I guess that's that's really brings me to one of my last questions, like, are you when you think about the state of the internet, especially for people who are traditionally marginalized, are you hopeful Are you hopeful that it will be a place where folks can find their their find community and find their shared interests,

whether it's politics or activism or you know, smut. Are you hopeful of the internet being like a place for self discovery, particularly for people who are traditionally marginalized. I think like it goes back to that kind of response, or I mean, I mean, marginalized people are always going to find communities online, and I think that that's like a really beautiful thing. I think that that's like important. I don't think that that should I think I don't

think that the bad stuff online has diminished. That people are always going to find whether it's like I don't know whether it's people who are marginalized, whether there's people who are just like really into some like K pop group. Everyone will go all the stands were fund will find you,

They will find their people. But I just think that gone other days where you can kind of feel like you're insulated, and there was a comfort in being insulated, and now you can't even be like a weirdo online if like the wrong person finds it and it's just like, look of these guys over here, and it's like, I'm just overhear hanging out, Like, let me be weird in this quarter. I'm not bothering you. So that's gotten harder with you know, the Internet just isn't as private as

it used to be. Yeah, I want to interviewed this amazing Internet historian Claire Evans, and she said that it's interesting that the internet used to be where you went to be anonymous, and the real world was where you went to be like who like who you are, and now it's completely flipped. The Internet is where you are where you go to be like really manacle to your government name and the real world is where you go to experience anonymity. And it's so interesting that we're in

this space where it's been completely flipped. Like back in the day when I was first exploring the Internet, it felt like discovery and and emity and like, you know, this is gonna sound very cheesy, but like the old days of like the hacker online and like black leather fingerless gloves and blogging on exactly right, Like that was the Internet experience that I feel like I was signing up for when I was younger, and these days that that is a thing, that is a fiction, that it

is no longer what we have. And I don't know, I don't know what that says about the state of the Internet today and like how we all show up on it. But I I'm really hopeful to carve out those spaces that feel like discovery and joy and connection and anonymity if that's what you want. And I'm hopeful that we can really preserve that that feeling for the

next generation online, I hope. So I guess we need to find like a Devian art or whatever for like the zoomers or something again, if you know, you know, but I know, but yeah, no, I think, like, you know, the Internet, I would like it to be in a place where, yeah, we're gonna be able to have to share among different spaces, but I would hope that it's also couldn't be more of a space for people can enjoy an heart, can partake in harmless fun without feeling

like they're gonna be like violated. You know, we deserve that, we deserve to have Internet spaces where we can partake in whatever nerdy, harmless fun we want without agreeing like we're going to get violated exactly. Actually, where can folks keep up with all the amazing stuff that you're up to? Okay, you can follow me at offbeat Orbit on Twitter, Instagram, stuff like that. I don't. I don't use tumbler anymore, but now I'm like, maybe I need to go back.

It might be time for a Tumbler revival. Like I kind of peeked around for a little bit, like a couple of weeks ago. I'm like, okay, the girls are still on here, like really like causing havoc, Like let's let's tap in, so you know, but also if you type in Ashley Rees anywhere I should pop up talk about lack of anonymity like I'm at that point. Now give it up for Ashley Rees. Thank you well, Thank you all for listening, and thank you Ashley for being here.

If you want to hear more conversations about the experience of being a traditionally an storically marginalized person online, you can subscribe to my podcast on iHeart Radio what's called There Are No Girls on the Internet and we would love to have you there. My name is Bridget Todd. This has been amazing. Thank you so much for having me. Good Bye, and if you want to talk about weird fan fiction, you can also find me. I'm in the jumpsuit. Yes.

If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merk store at tangodi dot com. Slash store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech? I just want to say hi. You can reach us at Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangodi dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd. It's a production of iHeart Radio and Unboss Creative, edited by Joey Pat Jonathan Strictland as our executive producer. Terry

Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amado is our contributing producer. I'm your host, bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from I heeart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts