There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Welcome to There Are No Girls on the Internet, where we explore the intersection of social media, technology and identity. And this is another installment of our roundup of news that you might have missed online this week. Quick heads up, I have COVID, Mike has COVID. We all have COVID.
That's right, Bridget. This episode is brought to listeners by we.
I mean, I know you've had it a few times. This is my sixth time getting it. And when we were talking about it, we were like, oh, like, didn't you feel like this strain it was more like body and less like we were talking about it like we were talking about a strain of marijuana, Like, Oh, it's more of a body vibe than a head in this in this strain.
Yeah, this this strain, Yeah, it's more a little more body than head. But there's a you know, little head ache FuG stuff going on. Uh, It's my experience has been more mild than previous times. Not to minimize COVID. COVID is terrible. Don't get it. It's a pretty big bummer.
Do you want to know what the strain, the new the new strain that just dropped us called that we probably have.
It's got a name flirt Flirt.
I know it sounds like I'm making that up, but I swear to you I'm not. It's like Uppercase f l Ert flirt. It's a flirty strain.
Who is branding these things? What the hell?
I don't know, but it's out there. Y'all wear your masks, do what you gotta do. But if you're wondering why, maybe we both sound a little bit loopy. It's COVID.
Yeah, you're bridges right, wear your masks. Don't do stupid things like go to a packed concert I don't know, or maybe do if that's what you want to do. Just be ready to experience a lot of regret if you're like somebody that I know.
I mean, you're being so clandestine. We got COVID together going to a rave to see Fat Boy Slim, who was amazing, by the way, did not This is how I know we are about that life. Fat Boy Slim there was two openers. He did not go on until two in the morning and he performed until four thirty in the morning, and you were like, yeah, I'll go. I thought for sure you were because I was on the fence. I was like, I don't know, packed packed warehouse, rave up till five.
I don't know, you know, every once every year that sort of thing feels appropriate.
I don't know. I really wanted to see me but on a really good show.
And just so we're clear, I misread the poster or whatever, and I thought he started at ten, which I was like, oh, a little bit late, but you know, everything want to see this show. Ten is when the doors opened. Ten was the earliest that you could even get into the facility. He didn't go on until two. And you know what, we stayed up. We danced, We had a good time. We did it. Don't let anybody say otherwise. We did get COVID that is that happened, but you know.
We did it pluses and minuses.
The big plus cee in Fat Boy Slim. He really delivered.
So we have a little bit of a rule here on the show where we don't talk about Trump unless it's something really big, really major, something that we have to talk about. But I think since we're both sick. Let's have a little Trump as a treat.
All right, we can have just like a little Trump as a treat.
So to introduce this conversation, let's play a little bit of what I think is going to be the song of the Summer by Mad Mcferrinucksucks, giftykill the killjkill.
So.
Earlier today, Trump was convicted of all thirty four charges three four of falsifying business records in the hush money case involving Stephanie Clifford, who performs under the stage name Stormy Daniels. What are your thoughts?
Uh, they're complicated.
It's nice to see some justice and the shun freud. Uh, it's certainly nice to see like the rule of law applied. Uh, since like he clearly did it and like didn't even bother to say that he didn't do it. But it's uh, it's it's a small comfort.
It's just really.
Uh, like people are still going to vote for and people are talking about how he's still getting donations and this is going to like cause his donations to go up.
So it it's mixed. It's mixed.
I mean, I guess this is better than the alternative of him getting off for clearly doing it.
We had such different takes on this because I was like scrolling Blue Sky and threads and being like memes, memes, memes, like celebratory dances, celebratory JITs. I was like, you know, if anything, I was like, man, I really missed the days of Twitter when news like this would have really like hit different. You were like, at least the rule of law still upheld in this country. I'm like, how many nity leaks jeeps can I use?
Well, I think you're having a healthier reaction. It sounds like you're at least getting a little bit of joy out of it.
You know, fine joy where you can, I will say so. One of my favorite tweets was by Zach Silberberg, who tweeted, so is Trump cooked now? Or is it like air blood logic where it's like, there ain't no rule that says a man with thirty four criminal convictions can't be president? And not only do I like that, because famously, if you've seen Airbud, there's no rule in the rule book that says a dog can't play basketball. But Zach is actually right here. I was like, well, certainly this means
that he cannot be elected president. That is not correct. There is no rule, just like there is no rule that says a dog can't play basketball. There is no rule that somebody with this many felony convictions cannot be president.
Yeah, he could run for president like a dog.
That's something else about Trump is that, like he always said things were like a dog, and I always wondering, like, what does he think about dogs? It will be like, oh, he lost the election like a dog. It's like that what dogs are known to do.
Yeah, in his vocabulary, being a dog is one of the worst things. Like, I don't know why he hates dogs so much.
It's one of the worst things someone can be as a dog.
Yeah, I guess because they're good and kind and loyal and some of them are smart.
That's why he hates them.
So I did see this tweet that made me laugh. That was a screenshot of the headline that I assumed was fake that said if Trump's conviction lands him in prison, the service goes too. When I thought, haha, that's so funny, looked it up to confirm and it's real. From the New York Times. This is true. Side note, everything I've read suggests that he probably will not say leave. But if he was sentenced to jail time in July during his sentencing, the Secret Service has to go.
Now that's a movie I would watch, Uh, what would it be titled.
Secret Serve in time And on the cover it's like Trump in the middle with his hands under his chin and the Secret Service agent sort of like back to back on either side of him with the sunglasses.
That's pretty good.
You came up with that right on the spot, Listeners, we did not plan this Atle's pure bridget magic right there.
Thank you, thank you. I'll take that.
For some reason, I'm picturing a sequel where the cover looks kind of like the cover of Sister X two somehow, like like he gets out and then right as he gets out, he gets convicted in the Georgia case or something, and then he has to go on the run with the Secret Service.
Well, I applaud you for really remembering the plot of Sister RAC too, because that's kind of what happens.
It was an important movie.
Let's take a quick break at our back.
So there's no real good transition from Sister RACT two to what I want to talk about first. But we have to talk about that viral all Eyes on Ratha image on Instagram. So, like a lot of people, I reposted the all Eyes on Ratha AI generated image on
my Instagram story and I am not alone. According to NBC's Cat ken Barge, the image, calling for people to pay attention to Israel's ongoing war on Gaza, has drawn more than forty four million shares on Instagram in less than forty eight hours, highlighting a renewed social media push
by supporters of Palestinians following a deadly Israeli airstrike. So Rafa is a city split between Egypt and the Gaza Strip that serves as the only crossing point between them, so it's an important spot for aid and supplies and food to go into Gaza. So, if you haven't seen it, the image is AI generated and it shows tents in a camp arranged to spell out the phrase all Eyes
on Ratha. Rafa is a city split between Egypt and the Gaza Strip and serves as the only crossing point between them, so it's an important spot for aid supplies and food to go into Gaza. The area is in the southern part of Gaza and it's filled with refugee tent camps where local officials said that at least forty five civilians died after an Israeli strike on Sunday. But the image that went viral on Instagram is not a real image of Ratha. It is pretty clearly AI generated.
Yeah, it's pretty clearly AI generated.
It's shows like thousands of tends in a very orderly way that does not match any of the actual photos that we've seen come out of that part of Gaza. But so if it's pretty clearly AI generated, then why didn't it get labeled on Instagram?
Great question? I don't know. My best guess is body moderation. But honestly, at this point, your guests is as good as mine. Meta has really talked up their efforts to label AI generated images, although there are like plenty of gaps in those rules. According to the Washington Post, the all eyes on Ratha image appears on Instagram without a
label calling it out as AI generated. The company does not appear to have taken any action to remove it, and then when the Washington Post asked Meta why they didn't label it, Meta did not reply. So we don't know.
Strange, Okay, So where does the phrase come from?
Well. According to Mashable, the slogan all Eyes on Ratha has been repeated for months. It was initially coined by doctor Rick Pepercorn, a World Health Organization director. Pepercorn said this back in February, when an Israeli invasion into Ratha was still then just a possibility. It hadn't happened yet. In a press briefing from RATHA, Peppercorn said that this would be a quote unfathomable catastrophe, further of expanding the
humanitarian disaster beyond all imagination. All eyes are on Ratha, declared Pepercorn. We all watch the news and we all get the stories about this possible incursion, and military activities are getting closer. This should not happen. There's no place for people to go. This is a desperate plea. Yes, contingency plans are being made, but they would be completely insufficient. According to four or four Media, the image originated with
a photographer in Malaysia's Instagram account. The user's own Instagram links to charity fundraising pages for Palestinian Aid and has a mix of real images and video and then like highly shareable AI generated images kind of similar to that All Eyes on Ratha image.
Why do you suppose it took off on Instagram specifically?
So, there are a couple of reasons I think this happened on Instagram specifically. Instagram has really emerged as an important platform for amplifying information about Palestine, which is kind of fraught given the way that content about Palestine and news content in general is being moderated on the platform.
For instance, earlier this month, Instagram's oversight board was debating whether or not the phrase from the river to the sea violates the platform's rules, including their ban on hate speech, and like just the other day, Adam MOSERI was trying to clarify new rules about how political content would be moderated in general on the platform, which I have to be honest, I don't fully understand what their plan is,
what they're trying to say. I don't feel like I have a good read on what they consider political content. But Instagram has really played an important role in amplifying information about what's happening in Palestine right now.
Just one more example of how bananas it is that we live in a world where Instagram and Meta get to make these enormous decisions about what kind of content we see related to extremely serious events happening around the world that like really do have an impact on all of us. Like it feels far away, but there are a lot of ways that you know, it really.
Impacts us all.
So this, uh, you know, there's obviously been a lot of content online about what's happening in Palestine.
Why do you suppose that this particular image went so viral.
Well, probably one of the biggest reasons is just the ease of posting it. It was posted using Instagram's ad Yours feature, which, like, without just that one click or really I guess two clicks, you can quickly and easily add an image to your story without even really thinking about it. This is true for me, but like your mileage may vary. I also think there's something about the fact that people were sharing this mostly on their Instagram story as opposed to adding it to their Instagram grid.
I think that things can really take off on stories because of the quickness that you can post them, and because they only last for however long, they don't last forever, and so I think that people are more prone to share things on the story because it's just so quick. Also,
a lot of critics of the image. Have pointed out that like, journalists have died or been hurt to get images about what is actually happening in Gaza online, and that it's like disrespectful to share an AI generated image when those real images exist, or like why not use art from an actual human Palestinian artist as opposed to AI generated art. But I actually suspect that one of the reasons why the image is AI generated is specifically
to be able to skirt Instagram's moderation policies. Like I think had they used a real image of what's happening in Rapha, there is no way that that image would be shared by millions of people because it would probably be moderated off of the platform.
Wait, that's did you just say that?
You think it's possible that had this bit real image it would have been more heavily moderated, but specifically because it was AI generated, it was able to spread more widely.
I think that's exactly right. So NBC reports that while the all eyes on Ratha image has spread quickly, video from Ratha posted by Palestinian journalists has been restricted and in some cases removed from social media for depicting the graphic aftermath of the Israeli strikes. Two of three Instagram posts showing burned and grievously injured and dead bodies after the recent strike were removed, and one had a sensitive content filter for quote graphic or violent content placed in
front of it. An Instagram spokesperson said that the company removed that content due to its violent and graphic nature, which it said violated the platform's policies. So it does seem to be that these platforms are saying that in some cases, the reality, the actual images and video and content and footage coming from Palestine is deemed too graphic
to be shown on these platforms. So I do think that had this been a real image from Ratha, I don't think that millions of people would be able to post it, just by the nature of what we already know around the kinds of content coming out of Palestine that Instagram and Facebook and Meta are currently moderating off the platform.
Yeah.
Boy, that's a really interesting take, because I think a more sanitized version is exactly what it is.
You know, it looks.
Cold and hopeless and desperate, but there's no people in the image, Like there's no people in the image, which is just one of many cues that clearly it's AI. Yeah.
I mean it's certainly more sanitized, definitely a more sanitized vision of what's actually happening in Ratha, and I do think that's part of why it went viral. As Friend of the Show Ryan Broderick over at the newsletter garbage they put it. If you're desperate for a super concise explanation as to how this random Malaysian user ended up creating a post of the moment, it's because they basically
managed to do the impossible. They generated a pro Palestine solidarity image vague and abstract enough to bypass both sensors and filters on one of the biggest remaining social networks that real people still use. So there's been a ton of debate about this image, you know, after it went superviral, like whether or not people should be reposting it. Full disclosure, I reposted it. I remember when I reposted it, I my finger hovered over the ad yours button and I thought, like,
should I repost this? Ultimately I did? I think judging from the photographer who first shared this image, I do think that image was initially shared with like good intentions. The person who shared it. You know, they share on their own Instagram. They share a lot of resources and
information about Palestine. But as for media points out, even assuming the best intentions for the original poster, the success of that image still led to the creation of hundreds of copycat AI generated images made by other accounts basically just trying to get to go viral, to the point where when you search all Eyes on Ratha on either Facebook or Instagram, the majority of what you get is like AI generated copycat content. Far for media, they're out,
we'll put the piece in the show notes. They found that already images sort of created in the style of that AI generated one have really taken off, And I think it illustrates a truism about the way that AI generated content strategies on social media, like move now, how that kind of content works and moves on social media now, Like a lot of the people posting it are just trying to see what sticks or what hits. They're not posting it because they care about whatever the image purports
to show or be about. They're just like, oh, this image purporting to show Ratha hit it. Well, then I'm going to make a million different versions of that and see if any of those stick too.
Yeah, it's such a different universe with these cheap, accessible AI tools now because you can do that, you can make literally a million and upload them all and you only one to go viral. Right, It's just like spamming the entire internet exactly.
It's one of the reasons why shrimp Jesus ai generated images have gone viral, because one person made the AI image of half shrimp, half Jesus, and that went viral on Facebook. And now there's just like viral shrimp Jesus ai generated content all over social media by copycats who were like, oh, well, that one really hit it. Maybe half shrimp, half Jesus is the sweet spot. Let's make a million more.
God, it's like every day gets a little bit more clear what it means to live in this new world where anything that anybody creates can immediately and almost for free, be recreated like a million times.
Yes, So I want to talk about sort of the debate and the ethics of this image. So a whole bunch of folks smarter than me have been weighing in on this image, with some of them criticizing it basically saying that it's another version of that black square that people posted in twenty twenty that we actually did one of our first episodes of the podcast about where people just post this thing on social media and then feel
like they've done what they need to do. It's a kind of a self serving thing where they post it, they feel good and it's done.
I can see that. You know.
It's like it feels like you're doing something by posting or reposting. Like you said, is that you don't even have to create a post. You just hit the add to stories button.
An Instagram user with the handle islam MC said quote it gives a space to lazy activism, to people who never actually wanted to talk about the cause or don't want to be controversial. It gives in the space to say, here, you wanted me to talk about it, here, I posted about it, now shut up. Honestly, I get that criticism, and I want to speak carefully here because I also think that we're in this time where people have maybe gotten this message like there is a risk to speaking
up about this issue. So when people are given away to do so in a way that feels like sanitized or safer, and everybody else is doing it, maybe that makes it feel easier or safer to also add their voice. But I think that what some of the people who are criticizing this are saying is that you know, this image doesn't have any resources. It doesn't have any links to more information, it doesn't have a link to donate. It's not even really Ratha. It doesn't have any actual
Palestinian incident. Why are you posting this? How does this help anybody?
Like?
What does this do other than makes me feel like I'm adding my voice? But then I saw other people saying, well, anything that shows that people are against what's happening in Palestine is a good thing. Jason Akunde, the author of the book Revolutionary Acts, Love and Brotherhood and Black Gay Britain, tweeted the AI all eyes on Ratha post might feel performative or frustrating, but honestly, Israel Palestine is a war
of public opinion and consensus. If it has become quote trendy to stand against massacre of Palestinians, then that is a net good. I don't think it can compared to the BLM Black Squares, which were weirdly differential and based on this nebulous aim of quote listening and learning the premise of this protest against the Onslaught and Rapa is that we want the genocide to stop. That is a
clear achievable demand. Israeli politicians know that the war of a consensus is key to victory, which is why they have a militarized communication strategy. If a random influencer is sharing a post about Rapa after months of mindlessly posting, this is an opportunity to seize not to be superior.
And I do think that that might be part of the conversation, right that social media by definition is always going to be somewhat performative, and I think that because of this feeling that people are watching to see if you share the right thing the right way, it maybe creates this tension. And because this is all happening in public, because it's social media, I do think it risks overshadowing
the real issue. Like, as much as I have really been tuned into some of the media and robust debate about this image, I do not want a conversation about the ethics of one AI generated post to overshadow conversations about what is happening in Palestine. And I guess I do think that we're in this space where people really maybe don't know what to do and feel powerless and feel like we're all witnessing something horrifying, but you're also struggling to find agency of like, well, what can I
do and listen? We can post on social media, we can donate money, we can protest. If you're going to protest, use our guides on how to do it safely. We'll put them on the show notes. But I think that that's why you're seeing these online movements that are calling for people to, you know, block Kim Kardashian and solidarity with Palestine that we talked about after the met ball. I think people are looking for ways to feel like
they have agency. And I can understand not really knowing what action to take and just smashing that share button on Instagram like I did, even while not knowing if it was the right thing to do or not. And I say all that to say that if you do have extra money and you're thinking like what can I do? You could give money to the Palaestindian Children's Relief Fund.
If you're in DC. One of my favorites, Boss in the City Sun Cinema shut Out to SUNS is donating all bar money to the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund that
they take in on Saturday, June first. So I certainly wouldn't act like I know the exact right thing to be doing here, but I can tell you I can share what I am trying to do, which is listening to Palestinian voices, folks who are actually on the ground, amplifying what they put out, really trying to engage with primary sources as much as I can, donating money to organizations like the Palaestidian's Children's Relief Fund where I can, and doing my best to educate myself and others.
More.
After a quick break, let's get right back into.
It, and speaking of AI generated content on social media, new research from Google researchers and several fact checking organizations have found that the most image based disinformation online right now is now AI generated. However, the way that researchers
are collecting data might actually be undercounting the problem. Basically, AI generated image based disinformation was not really a thing until late twenty twenty three when AI image generators became widely available and popular, But now they have basically replaced all other forms of image based disinformation. So these AI generated pictures of Rapa, even while they might might have been initially shared for good, it is important to know
that that's not happening in a vacuum. And if images like that go megaviral and encourage other people to copycat AI generated images, we will just be a wash in images, most of which are not real about a conflict that is pretty serious.
Yeah, gets harder and harder to know what really is, like true, you know, even mentioned that the account that shared that photo had a mix of real photos that were you know, photos that were taken of the world and AI generated images, and the blurring of that line is scary, right, Like, maybe one of the other things that we can do is really try to put forth that effort that's needed to use primary sources, like you say, and make sure that we do everything we can to
have an accurate sense of what is actually happening in the world and not just the narratives that are being promoted.
Absolutely, trying to engage as much as I can with primary sources has been really fruitful. And you know, you can read this, you can read the summary. I mean, I guess you're listening to me summarized stuff for you, right, now keep doing that, but as much as you can, we put the primary sources in the show notes so that you can engage with them. You know you should do that?
Yeah, oh absolutely, you know.
I'm yeah, and I think listeners have a right to expect that. And all those other shows that aren't doing it, listeners should stop listening them.
They should listen to our show.
Are you starting like a podcast?
Is there?
Is there a show in particular that you're thinking of, because I'm I'm down for a podcast beef. I've been saying it has been too long since I had a good old fashioned beef. So if you are throwing down the gauntlet and we're gonna kick up a beef with another podcast, I'm here for it.
I didn't have anybody in mind, but you know, yeah, maybe they should be unnoticed. Put your sources in your show notes.
We're coming for you. PJ. We didn't forget about what happened at reply All.
Shit, Yeah I went there. Yes, we've got all these AI generated es.
Is that it is that the only dangerous thing that AI has made cheaply and easily available that is poisoning the minds and lives of a generation is that it.
That is not the only harm out there on social media. God, I wish, because we have to talk about this really upsetting report from BBC that is upsetting but maybe not totally surprising, that found that criminals are producing and selling guides to sextortion on social media. The guides show people how to pose as young women online and trick victims into sending sexually explicit material over and then they can use that material to financially blackmail them.
My god, this is one of the darkest things I think we've talked about on this show in a while.
Yeah, and we've talked about how these kinds of sextortion schemes work and how they are mostly being used to target young men and boys, mostly being perpetrated by gangs based in West Africa. However, what is new here is that that criminals have added this extra stream of income by creating and selling these guides to help other people do this as well. That it's becoming a marketplace where it's like, oh, you too can give me money and I can show you how to make money by praying
on youth. So this is pretty serious. Kids are dying because of it. In the UK. Two British teenagers are known to have died by suicide since October twenty twenty two after becoming victims of sextortion schemes.
Yeah, and even that underestimates the real scope of the problem because a lot of people who are target in these schemes don't die, but are still severely harmed by it.
Yeah. Paul Rafel, an intelligence professional and export on sextortion, says that this whole thing is a massive threat to children. Paul says internet scammers over these past two years have found out that they can get very rich, very quickly by scamming an untapped market, and that's teenagers. He also says that big tech companies are not doing nearly enough to stop extore in surprise surprise, saying this crime has really exploded on Instagram and Snapchat over the past two years.
These platforms need to aggressively go after these criminals. Now. Snapchat did tell BBC we've been ramping up our efforts to combat it, including a reporting option specifically for threats to leak sexual content, and in app education for teens. In a statement, Meta, which owns Instagram, said it offered quote a dedicated reporting option so people can report anyone
threatening to share private images. We default teens under eighteen in the UK into private Instagram accounts at sign up, which hides their follower and following list into stricter default messaging. Facebook said, and you know, I guess I agree that they're just like not doing enough. We already know from like multiple episodes that Instagram really is aware the way that their product is being used to harm and target use in sexualized ways, and like they really just like
aren't newing enough. I will agree that they're that like not enough it's being done. And I think this is really heartbreaking because creeps are preying on the shame and silence and secrecy that a young person would feel getting mixed up in this. Like if you're a young person who has gotten caught up in a sextortion ring, it's got to be isolating and tough to talk about with the adults in your life. And I think that people who are doing this they know this, and they are
using that dynamic to prey on kids. Meanwhile, platforms aren't doing enough to stop them. I do have another kind of dark Internet thing to discuss, which is whether or not parents whose children die by suicide have a right
to examine those kids' social media footprints. So over in the UK, Ellen Rooum, the mother of a child who died by suicide, has gathered more than one hundred thousand signatures on a petition calling for social media companies to be required to hand over data to parents after a
child has died. Under the current law, parents have no legal right to see whether their child was being bullied or threatened, was looking at self harm images or other harmful content, or express suicidal feelings online, or searched online to help with mental health problems. Room says this is wrong, that her son left no indications of his motivation before he died. The last time she saw him he seemed happy and well adjusted, and that now she just has
no idea what happened. She says, it's really awful if a child died of an illness, you do a post mortem and work out what was wrong. It's not going to bring my son back, and I'm not going to stop grieving, but maybe just to understand what happened in those last few hours, she said, because an hour and a half before he left the house and there's video of him saying goodbye to his friend, he was fine. So what changed or what was going through his mind?
Any social media may give me the answers. Because her petition got more than one hundred thousand signatures, there is likely to be a debate in Parliament on this issue. She was part of a group of parents that met with both the government and Offcom, which is the UK's communications regulator that regulates social media, radio, TV and other sectors.
The group included people like a man whose daughter died by suicide after viewing harmful content online, and the parents of another child who died after possibly taking part in a social media challenge. As part of the Online Safety Act, which went into effect on April first at this year, coroners are now granted new powers that give them access to social media and online gaming data when investigating a
child's potential suicide. However, even under that new Online Safety Act, parents are still not entitled to access the data themselves, and the ruling only applies to children who died by suicide, not those, for example, who were maybe murdered by somebody that they met online.
It's a tough one because.
Obviously you have to sympathize with these parents who've suffered a terrible loss and have a right to want to know what happened with the kid's life. But you know, it does also open up a whole bunch of cans of worms. I think of making kids social media posts available, you know, like, where does the line of privacy for kids get drawn?
It's, uh, it's a tough one, but yeah, this is.
Why I wanted to include it because I really cannot imagine the grief of losing a child in this way, and I then can't imagine the added grief of not knowing, like if something impacted them in their last moments and
just not having insight into that. But I also don't know enough about, yeah, the privacy ramifications of giving parents that kind of access, and so it's a it's I think it's I think it's a conversation that really illustrates the complexity of where we're at when it comes to social media right now, and kind of like what you were saying with the Palestine story, how much platforms are holding, how much weight their decisions and their policies have, how
they impact youth and the mental health of youth, Like that is a lot of power that we're giving people like Mark Zuckerberg and Ada Mosseri and Elon Musk.
Yeah, that's a great point, you know, and it's.
These are tough, complicated issues, and historically politicians have just not dealt with them at all and left it to the Zuckerbergs of the world to figure out how much they can get away with before it starts cutting into their bottom line. I guess it's good to see it being debated in uh, you know, in a regulatory context like this bridget We've got COVID retired and it hurts.
We have covered some pretty difficult stories today, Like I don't know if this is just how you deal with being sick, or maybe this is it's just been a rough week. Do we have anything lighter that we can end this episode on?
Can I offer you some pizza made with glue? Michael? Yes?
Please? I love pizza, so.
You and I I should. People might hear some tension or we're discussing this because we feel differently about this next story, right we do.
We talked about this ahead of time. Listeners might be interested to know that during the week we keep like a running list of like a Google doc, where we're just adding ideas of stories that we might want to cover. I try to add a bunch of stories, and then before the we record the episode, Bridget goes through deletes.
All of my stories, add some new ones.
That's not true. I would say, like, I think you've got like a solid like fifty fifty. And also it's because if you were in charge, it would be such a fixed stories about hard tech that everybody will be like, what are they talking about? But I'm why do they still it's like fifty to fifty half stories that you pick, half stories that I pick. I don't. I don't delete your stories, not unless they're really bad and like stupid and I don't want to talk about them. So yeah,
you know what I do. I do delete your stories sometimes.
And that's good.
This is your show, it's and thank goodness it is because you're so much better at this than me. I'm just I'm pleased some of them make it through the filter. That's not the point here. The point is I put this story of the list thinking that it was gonna go one way, and then I looked through the notes that you wrote and I was like, oh, Bridget like really likes this, which is surprising to me because I had a different reaction.
Okay, why don't you tell people what we're talking about, because they're like, I don't even know the story? What else talking about? Maybe they do know the story, but why don't you fill us in.
The pizza glues story? So, uh, you know, people probably eat or maybe no. I think it was last week Google rolled out their new AI summary feature at the
top of search. So when you search, instead of well, you still get your list of ten links buried behind a bunch of sponsored nonsense, but at the very top of your results, you're going to get an AI summary generated by Google's AI bot, Gemini that attempts to answer the question that you Googled for, and then you can scroll past it to go look at the links.
But there. I think we maybe talked.
About this a little while ago that there's a lot of concern that this is going to really just fundamentally change search because you type in a question to Google, you hit enter and boom, there's an answer right at
the top of the page. And so why would you look beyond that to go to those primary sources that we were just talking about a couple of minutes ago, And they rolled out this product, and the Internet, or at least my little corner of it has just flooded with screenshots of Google's AI summary getting it wrong because they scraped a lot of Reddit posts to teach the model, like what the world is, so it can have information to spit back to us. It really highly ranks what
people wrote on Reddit. But Reddit, a lot of redditors use humor and sarcasm. That's the thing that exists on Reddit. And so like this one screenshot that was going around was about how to make a pizza, and it had a line that was something like, you know, if you want a thicker sauce, you could add a little bit of glue.
So I gotta stop because a verge collected some of the best incorrect answers that Google now provides to questions. Google claims that former US President James Madison graduated from the University of Wisconsin, not once, but some times. That a dog has played in the NBA, NFL, and NHL. Shout out to Airbud. There's no Rubbi.
There's gonna talk about basketball playing dogs in this episode.
Listen, I have COVID, let me have this. There's no rule that says a dog can't play in the NHL. Also, my personal favorite that according to geologists that you see Berkeley, you should eat at least one small rock per day.
It's like, we're all chickens. Chickens eat rocks.
Yeah, chickens eat rock that rocks. That little like gizzard thing that hangs down from their throat. They got little rocks in there to help grind up their food.
Oh Lord and case listeners don't know microw up on a farm. Is this your type five about growing up on a farm.
No, it's just a joke about eating one small rock per day.
Like if you were a chicken, that might not be enough.
So even for chickens who are using Google, they're like, I don't know if these responses are on the money, it should be more than one small rock.
Yeah, And that just illustrates the perils of trying to design a product for everybody.
You know, you're just not gonna please anybody, humans or chickens.
Okay, so when you asked Google how to get your cheese to stick better to the crust when you're making pizza, Google said to add glue. The reason why you put it on the agenda to talk about last week, which we didn't talk about, was that a tech journalist actually tried this recipe business insiders. Katie anopolists said, I knew my assignment. I had to make the Google glue pizza. Don't try this at home. I risked myself for the sake of the story. But you shouldn't. So you put
this on the agenda. You come to look at the outline that I've come up with to make to like do the fact check, blah blah blah, You're like, oh, I see your position on the glue eating is a you're pro. I was like, yeah, she's eating glue, awesome, But what were your thoughts?
My thoughts were like, what a ridiculous little stunt, Like it's just silly, Like you're not supposed to eat glue. The reason that those screenshots are funny is because it says to eat glue, but everybody knows you're not supposed to.
Well, Mike, if you read the primary source, you would know that Katie actually has a history of eating glue. She says, yes, since I know you're wondering, I did eat paste as a kid. I loved it. So this is not This is like not a stunt. This is like her returning to form.
That does nothing for me, though, because it's not like she's continuing to eat glue today. She's just like a glue eater. Like I did read the story, I clicked into her bio. She's a real journalist who writes like real.
Journalist is and I like her. And if she wants to come on the show and talk about the glue, I would love to have. You won't be a part of that episode, Mike, since you lis such an attitude about it. But Katie, if you're listening, I like that you ate the glue. I'm not gonna shame you for eating the glue. Come on the podcast and talk about it. Mike won't be on. I want us talk about the glue.
But like, really, why did she eat the glue?
Because Google told her to.
Google tells us to do so many things that we don't have to do them. We're humans, we have agency for a little bit.
Yet she was.
Proving a point that about search, that search has gotten so bad that the examples that they're giving like it be it'd be foolish for somebody to do it.
So she did it, but to what end?
Right?
Like she was the internet was full of memes about how bad Google Search was or at least you know the AI summary. It wasn't like she was adding on or adding to understanding of how this new thing is gonna change search.
She was just trying to get some clicks.
Listen. I think she took it to the next level. And honestly, when she accepts her pulitzer, where are you going to be? I'll tell you where you're gonna be. Not eating glue and pizza, That's what. Also, she didn't just eat glue. She mixed glue into pizza sauce and then made a homemade pizza. And I guess because she was using like a jarred pizza sauce. She said, for anybody who feels compelled to point out that I shouldn't have used jarred sauce or pre shrided cheese, please keep
in mind, I'm eating glue here. How do you not love that?
Yes, it's kind of funny. It's like it's somewhere between Jackass and that video of did you ever se the video of some local journalists who went down to the police station to test out a taser and he was gonna like show how tasers work and he had them taze him.
He like falls over it.
I have to because it looks.
Like it really hurts, and I have to, like, I feel like eating glue for the story is kind of like getting tased for the story.
So I guess you don't want any of this glue pizza that I I made.
No, I don't. I love pizza anything on it, but not glue. Glue's not food. Glue is not food, Bridget.
It's a bold stance, but I guess it's a great one to end on. Hey, real quick, before you go, this is future Bridget and I have a little bit of breaking news glue vindication for you, because the day after Mike and I recorded this episode, Google announced they'd be taking steps to limit the use of joke replies and user generated responses from places like credit in the
AI overview summaries now appearing in search. Katie Annapolis, who ate the glue, had a bit of a victory lap about it, and a new piece for Business Insider called sometimes to save the Internet.
You must eat glue.
Katie writes, there was a whole lot of attention paid in the past week about how bad many of these AI generated search results were, particularly because they were wacky and funny. Was Google's response to tamp down it's big AI search ambitions just because of a few jokesters on x made silly queries. Maybe did it be because Google took the feedback seriously and realized that there were use cases they had not expected and they needed to retool
based on this new information. Maybe could it be a combination of those two things that a small minority of trolls abusing the system for laughs revealed some serious flaws and dangers of putting AI in search results. That it wasn't just a pr disaster for a week, but made Google seriously rethink the safety of the aioverbuse product and what it would actually be used for. Most likely, but Katie writes, let's not overlook one crucial factor here. Me
I actually ate the glue pizza. It did not taste good, and please do not do this at home. The fact that Google rolled this out with such easily exploitable flaws that was bad. But fixing it that's good. And I like to convince myself that my eating glue pizza was part of the noise that prompted Google to act. Please please, I don't need your thanks. I'm just doing my job. As they say, not all heroes wear capes, some just eat glue. Katie, I agree, you are the hero the
internet needs. Mike. Thank you for being here. Even though your opinion about Katie eating glue is bad, we still like to have you around. Thanks so much, and thanks to all of you for listening.
Thanks for having me, Bridget and I hope you feel better soon you too.
I feel like our COVID miss people are listening. I'm sorry, That's all I can say.
This was a silly one, I think.
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Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi? You can reach us at Hello at tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at TENG Goody dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by Me Bridget Hi. It's a production of iHeartRadio, an unboss creative edited by Joey pat Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amada is our
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