Session 462: Going No Contact

at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me from session four sixty two or the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our

conversation after word from our sponsors. In this episode, I'm joined by licensed psychotherapist doctor Natalie Jones for a thoughtful conversation about what it really means to go no contact with people in your life who may be causing harm. Doctor Jones brings deep expertise in trauma, boundaries and emotional wellness, and she shares from both her clinical work and her

passion for helping people build healthier relationships. In this conversation, we talk about how complicated this decision can feel, especially within families and tight knit communities, and why more of us are finding ourselves considering distance as an act of self preservation as conversations about boundaries and generational healing continue to grow. This feels like such a timely and necessary discussion, and I hope it offers you both clarity and reassurance

if this is something you've been wrestling with. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session, or join us over and our patreon to talk more about the episode. You can join us at community do therapyfro Blackgirls dot com. But first, we are desperately in need of an emergency pop culture check in a lot,

maybe even too much has occurred. And as a therapist but also someone who appreciates and loves pop culture, it wouldn't be me if I didn't dig into the mental health aspect of all of this. Here's our conversation.

about our mental health. So I'll bring in a few stories and doctor Joy will help us make sense of what's underneath them, what they might reveal about how we're relating to ourselves, to each other, into the world around us. Are you ready to get into it?

fuel costs. The airline, long known for ultra low fares, canceled all flights and shuttered its operations, leaving travelers stranded and driving up prices across the industry and for many, especially budget conscious travelers, Spirit was one of the few

accessible options for air travel. So, you know, I've been thinking about what happens when affordability disappears from essential experiences like travel, and I'm curious, what are the mental health implications of feeling like certain experiences like a vacation or visiting family are no longer accessible to you.

to participate in. And I think it really highlights this othering that we find just across the board and lots of different categories and makes people feel like these are not things that are for me. So when you think about like class trips, right, Like class trips when I was in school used to just be kind of like to our local park or somewhere drivable, and now kids are kind of sometimes expected to fly to DC for

a trip or you know, go to different places. And so when you think about even those kinds of things are impacted, and I think the mental health impact makes it so that people feel less. It makes it feel as though there are things that are not meant for me, and I think that that can cause a real hit to self esteem. It can really impact feelings of worthiness.

I also think one of the things I was struck by related to this story was the abrupt nature, because it felt like we've heard rumblings about it and then by the end of the week it was completely done. And so I think business is business, people kind of say, but I'm always really concerned about the mental health impact

of people on the workforce. Right, So the flight attendants, the pilots, all of the people who are servicing the airplanes, like just abruptly now have been terminated and don't have gainful employment in that same way. And so I just hope that we can get to a place where businesses maybe are able to be a little more thoughtful, a little more intentional about the rollout of difficult news like this.

You know, I do understand sometimes it can't be avoided, but I think that that's also a huge mental health impact of this story.

they're unaffordable. How can we still find connection? How can we You might not have answers about how can we still travel? But how can we still find connection when some of it feels out of reach?

other ways to be intentional about connecting. You know. I know one of the things that I talk about a lot is like old adult sleepovers or pedomal parties where maybe you're in a hotel or an airbnb or even in some one's home and just kind of have old fashioned sleepovers, which I think are missed art for adults.

So things like that are adult field days I'm also a big proponent of, and so I think it really just forces us to be more creative about the ways that we can connect and making sure that when we are thinking about ways to bring people together. We are not excluding now based on this idea that an air travel may not be as easy as it was before

Spirit closed down. And even then, you know, like prices have gone up across airlines, right, And so I think even beyond this news, I think it is important for us to just be much more intentional about looking at different ways to connect that kind of meet all different income levels.

parenting differences when it comes to boys and girls. And I think the core tension in here is what does protecting daughters become limiting to their autonomy? And I feel like in so many Black families, girls are more tightly controlled when it comes to dating and sexuality, while boys are given more freedom. How does this dynamic shape black girl's sense of autonomy, self trust, and relationship boundaries as they grow up.

that girls are not. And I think you really hit the nail on the head, and that there are things that young people and children need to develop skills around regardless of gender in gender presentation, right, And so the idea that it's okay for his son todate, but not his girl his daughter to date, like, when is she actually going to be able to develop the kinds of skills she needs to become a young woman and an

adult in this world. Now, you may make the argument that fifteen feels too young that I'm willing to debate, but if it is okay for your son, then it also should be okay for your daughter. And then it makes me think what kinds of things are does she

needs to be protected from? And are you having those conversations with your son, right, because in theory, that's what you're thinking, like, oh, you know, I'm not sure what the guys are gonna do, and you know, like, so what kinds of conversations are you actually having with your son so that other people's daughters, that is, who they are dating, don't need protecting from. And I do think it really limits the ability for, like I said, like young women and young girls to develop the kinds of

skills that are necessary. We actually just had a conversation

in our Patrion community recently. A community member submitted a question about so much of our lives as women, we are taught to kind of go to school, we'll focus on education, kind of be all about the books and career stuff, and then at some point when our mid twenties or so, family starts then asking all these questions about local what are you gonna settle down, and where you're gonna have kids and all these things, and it's like, well, all my life you've said go do this thing, right,

and so when was I developing the skills to actually be successful in relationships? And I think that this is a part of that conversation as well. I do think we have to get more expansive in our ideas about what it looks like for young people to develop relationship skills, because we can't just think that at twenty something, everybody knows the answer is about how to manage conflict and how to stand up for yourself, how to be assertive, how do you make sure that your desires are a

center if we've never let them practice that? And that is largely what you're doing in dating at fifteen, right, It's teaching young people to be in tune with what kinds of things they're interested in, how to stand up for themselves, how to set boundaries, like all of those things that are really important life skills.

the understanding of like adults. Well most of the times they don't, And so I think sometimes it can mean like, well, what's wrong with me? Like why does this sibling get special treatment? I mean again, it can be an impact on self esteem or even feelings of worthiness, And so I think you have to be very careful, especially with twins, that there is not this like favoritism or behavior that one twin is allowed that the other one is not.

This year's theme explores fashion as a fine art form, specifically examining how garments have shaped and responded to the human body over the last five thousand years, and the dress code for the met Gala was Fashion is Art. When I think about how the average person interacts with the met Gala, I think a lot of people want to be more creative with their looks. They want the opportunity, whether it's a wedding or someone's milestone birthday, to have

permission to dress up. And sometimes I do think there's this stigma or this idea that if you aren't famous, if you aren't going to a huge event, you're being too much if you dress up. And while the metala is cool to watch, I think it can make us feel like we're stuck in this rut. And for someone who wants to start dressing more creative but feels like their life is too normal for it, how do you get over the fear of being judged or being looked at, quote unquote weirdly.

be a pretty low barrier to entry. If you're wanting to be more experimental, and I think it is a great way to kind of start stepping out and taking more risks. And I talk about all the time about just because you feel like people are paying attention to you or you feel weird, it's okay to sit with

the feeling and still do the thing anyway. And so I think fashion is one of those things where you can actually be experimental, kind of take some opportunities to just dress up on a random and Thursday, just because this is also one of the ways that I think the Internet has actually done as a favor, and that you see so many like blogs and channels that are really focused on just finding cool, random people on the

streets who have like cool fashion sense. And so I think in some of those ways, like the weirdness and the kind of stepping out of the box has been celebrated and given a platform to kind of exists, whereas maybe you know, five to seven years ago that would not happen. But I also think it is really important for you to know that people are not paying attention

to you as much as you think that they are. Right, Like, if you think about your own kind of inner monologue when you are going throughout your day, you're thinking about what are you cooking for dinner, where the kids need to be this afternoon, what other work stuff do I need to do. You're far more interested in involved in yourself than you typically are in other people, and so I think that idea that you are in a spotlight

anytime you're out in public isn't always incredibly realistic. And so if you are interested in being more experimental with your fashion and just dressing up just because it's Thursday, I think that is a great thing to do.

I think to our earlier conversation about being in more creative and intentional by connecting with one another, having a fashion show as a friend group could be a fun thing to do. You know, I think giving yourself permission where it does not otherwise exist is actually a great I think emotional regulation, mental health kind of strategy.

I always really appreciate that. At the twenty twenty five Billboard Music Awards, Erica bad Do wore this dress that was almost kind of alike to Sarah Bartman, who was the woman who was experimenting on by scientists, the black woman, And so I think Erica Baddu is already really grand in the way that she plays with proportions her hats, and then I think that was such a big moment for her, especially like no, I don't want to say people don't pay attention to the Billboard Music Awards, but

to wear that there was a statement. So I'm really curious. I'm not sure if she's going, but I'm curious what she's gonna wear, because she's also done some really fun stuff with like Marnie in the past, and her and her daughter were in a Marnie campaign. Another brand that doesn't like subscribe to, like the naked dress, small waist, wide hips of it all, and so I think the people who lean into that are going to be really fun.

So Erica Paloma Elsas, they're always Tiana Taylor like, she's always great, Rihanna like, I don't I heard Zindeia's not going. So I'm a little bit sad about that. But one of my favorite brands, who dressed Regina King last year, who decides war. I'm hoping they have some placements on the carpet as well, which is a black owned brand,

So I'm excited to see what they do. And a lot of their work is inspired by like church art and cathedrals and things like that, and so I think there's an intersection between like the history of fashion as art and what they already do. So that's going to be exciting.

when people are talking about no contact. But in terms of your work, what do we mean when we're talking about going no contact?

I have decided that this relationship is not healthy for me anymore, and I think it's better for us to be done with each other. In releasing this relationship, it's done with love, but it's more to protect me and my piece and where I'm at, that is what no contact is.

not meant to be mean. It's not meant to manipulate you, and it's not done to try to hurt you. Now, how you may interpret that, that's on you, but it's meant to be Mostly from my piece, it's saying definitively, I don't want relationships like this anymore. I'm in a different space for that.

A lot of times again there's like so much disrespect that happens, and their children question, like, am I not lovable? Do my parents love me? Am I being a disrespectful child. Family members or the community at large will come into play here and say, well, you only get one mama, you only get one daddy. You need to forgive it and forget it and move on. These are your parents.

So a lot of times what tends to happen is children, especially our condition to shoulder the burden of disrespect for many years before they do that, and everything under the sun is typically happening as a part of that dynamic. And so what they will tend to do is they'll come to somebody like me and they'll say, is there something wrong with me? Am I wrong for thinking this way? What is going on? What should I do with this? Well?

If I've thought about doing this, but I was told by my sister, my brother, my aunts, my grandma, and all of these type of people that I'm selfish and that I need to get over it, or that my feelings aren't valid, or I'm being shown by the community, my church community even that I need to honor thy mother, honor thy father. And that basically means that I have to neglect my own emotions before I'm able to do that, before I'm able to say or do anything to protect myself.

And so I'm not really clear on what that means. So what has happened, especially when it come to somebody like me, is we get clarity around what's going on, what you're needing from the relationship, and what certain things have meant. So if there's been some disrespect that's going on, or betrayals or things like that, they need to get clarification and validation. Is this something that like a big deal? Is this something that like I should be worried about.

In what I've learned to tell people over the years is if you take the title away from that person, So the title of that person was not mom or dad, but was anybody else in your life? What would your actions be right? Will we be sitting here having this conversation?

Would there be so much turmoil Because a lot of times people will allow their parents to get away with everything, including murder, and only because that's my mama, that's my blood, that's how we are, especially if you're in the black community. But if we take that away and say, would you allow that in any other aspect of your life, then why are we allowing that here? Because they're actually treating you worse than your worst enemy. So there's all of

that sort of processing. There's also processing what that would mean, what that would look like to go no contact? How would your life look? How do you want your life to look if you were to go down this road? Is that something that you're really ready to let go? And so usually there's like a series of actions, there's like a series of confirmations or things that happen before people actually even get to that step. It's not a

decision that many people take lightly. Many people what they tend to do is they may go low contact, so they may stop talking to whomever for a little bit and see how that feels. I always encourage people to do that. Take little vacations or holidays from that person, if you will to see how your life feels without

them in it. So if you, for example, if you talk to your mother every day and your mother's cussing you out, she's violating your boundaries, and then you take like two weeks off from her, how does your life look within those two weeks away from her? And a lot of times it's significantly better. I'm not anxious, I'm not depressed, I'm not suicidal, I'm not second guessing myself.

I actually feel relieved. I don't have to prete and when I'm in the room with her, pretend to actually like her, pretend to actually want to engage with her, I actually feel more authentic towards myself. So those are a lot of the steps that we would take in going that direction.

Can you say more about that and how you might manage being cut off then from these other people as well.

their experiences are or how they would handle things. But they don't know what this person is like behind closed doors. You don't know my mom is calling me everything but a child of God. You don't know that my mom tried to sleep with my boyfriend or all these other things. Right that other situations that people go you don't know what's going on. So if I can't take I don't recommend people take blinded vice from those who are not familiar with your situation or familiar with the true person

that you're dealing with. A lot of people that tell you to do that, they don't even really know who that person is. They're dealing with the actor. They're dealing with the person who puts on the mask and goes out and performs for the world. But they don't know the genuine person, which is who I have to deal with, who I'm talking to on the phone with, who I'm laying in bed next to, whatever the case may be.

You don't know that actual person. So I'm going to respectfully need for you to stay in your lane and mind your business, and I'm allowed to be the author of my own life, right, And so I think it really takes that sort of stands and a lot of people look at that as being selfish. You do have to be selfish to take care of your own mental health. You do have to be selfish in order to mind your own well being. That's not selfish in a bad way. It's like you have to take care of yourself first

before you can take care of anybody else. But do you ask anybody else for advice when you go to a doctor when you're feeling sick? Do you sit around and wait for somebody? You ask somebody else for advice when you have to eat, or when you have to take certain medications, do you say, hey, I don't know if I should eat or not? Do you really do that? I think people, when you've been abused for so long, you've been conditioned to second guess your voice, second guess

your opinions. I invite people to, hey, take control of your life back, take your autonomy back, start making your own self directed decisions where you don't need permission from anybody else.

allowed to make their own decisions. Children don't deserve to be apologized to that children just you should take copious amounts of disrespect, You should take copious amounts of betrayal, and forget how you feel, just make up every single time. Just forget how you feel give them a pass for the simple fact that it's your parents, And I think that's the thing, or that children should be self sacrificing

because their parents decided to give birth to them. So therefore, because I'm your mother and I decided to give birth to you, no matter how I treat you, you should always be self sacrificing because I brought you into this world and I have labored the cost of having you. Therefore, you need to be eternally grateful and you are forever indebted to me because.

though this is a decision you made lightly right. But the other part of that story has been that a lot of the parents have come out and said, like, oh, I didn't recognize that there were these things that they felt about me, or the parents have felt that it was unwarranted right that I didn't do anything, so to speak, for this person to go no contact with me. Do you think that that is typically the case, doctor Jones, that like parents don't realize that all of these things.

If we're talking about parents, right, because that's the example we've used, do you think it's the case that parents don't realize like the ways that they have harmed their children or the people who they've been caregivers for and are like shocked by this decision.

And so what I've noticed a lot of times with these parents who do this, they often speak to their children in a condescending manner like you do not have the right to feel the way that you do, to speak up and say anything. You need to stay in a child's place, right, And it's often that sort of negati rhetoric, and it becomes a rhetoric so much so that they don't want to hear what their child is

saying to them. They don't respect their child's evolution into adulthood, but they don't respect their children in general, because I think even when a child is small or a baby, they still need their voice respected, their boundaries respected. Children need to be listened. They're their own autonomous human being. And what you have a lot of times in these cases with these parents is like, I don't see my child as an individual. I don't want my child to

be a free thinker. I want my child to be is something that I control every aspect of their life. I have to say so, and I don't really want any sort of rebuttal. I don't want any individuality. I don't want any sort of difference of opinion. I just want what I want is I bulldoze my way through that relationship. And so when you have parents that think like this, they just want what they want and they've heard it before. Most of the adult children have tried

to talk to them. They don't want to hear it. They shoot it down, and parents will give their children the silent treatment. Now that's more of the manipulation piece, where the parents will stop talking to their child and the stonewall the argument, and eventually the child sort of caves in and okay, mom or okay Dad, I have to do this have a relationship with you. I have to give in and let you have your way, otherwise we don't have a relationship. So a lot of times

children are in this relationship through manipulation and fear. If I don't cater to my parent, if I don't give them what I want, then we don't have a relationship. I want some kind of relationship with them. I don't want to be in this world alone or without my parents, so I have to capitulate and give them what they want.

a situation. So being dramatic is open to interpretation, right, And you also have to think about like which a lot of people don't, right, But you also have to think about what's happening on the other end for somebody to have such an adverse reaction to what's going on, if that makes sense, right, So if I'm being dramatic, happening on the other end of that where I'm being dramatic, right, especially if you know that that's not my personality style, or if you don't know me at all, Right, So

I think that's one thing. But I also think, going back to what I was saying before, sometimes people need to know their place and respect a boundary. So a lot of times people will not interfere or speak up until the abuser triangulates them and brings them into a situation. What an abuser warns is an audience. They'll quickly have a lot of people come to defend their honor. And so when you think about children who go no contact, the first thing I said, where is the community? Where's

the community been all this time? So where's where have your grandparents been all the time? Where have ANNs and uncles and people who've actually witnessed the abuse, Where have they been all this time? What have they been doing? Have they interfered and been a safety net for you up until this point? And a lot of times it's no, they haven't been, or oh they always chose to look the other way, or they've said, oh, it's not my business.

But now, all of a sudden, all these people come rushing to the aid of or to the defense of someone who's an abuser. So they're very selective with their help and interventions, and it's all one sided. And again it's very it's mostly geared towards one person, where as you ostracize the other person or keep them out, or it's like you need to just calm down and you need to be more subordinate and get back in your lane.

And so I would say that people, if they're going to intervene or be a safe space, you need to listen and hear with what's really going on and not come in towards the tail end of the story or be swayed by one person on everything, If that makes sense.

go out and get another one. Siblings, if you have another one, it's usually a little bit easier another one that's supportive or that you at least have a relationship with. But parents that's a little bit more finite for people, and so once you're.

it's a finite situation. It isn't you stick your toe in the pool and then you come back, and then you stick your toe in the pool again and then you come back. It really should be more of a this is a final decision. I'm okay, I'm at peace with it, and so understanding what that means. And so what I have done when people have started to talk about that is to advise people like, Okay, well you

want to be sure to do that. And part of the ways in which you want to be sure to do that is maybe you do want to take a break from your parents, because it's easier to say I'm going to take a break as opposed to I'm going no contact, So maybe you might want to take an extended break is see what your life is like without that parent first before you commit to something that should

be a permanent decision. And so people do that, but then we also go through the grieving process of what that means, because a lot of times going contact is really like grieving two deaths and one person. So is grieving for the parent that you actually hope you could have and the parent you actually do have that is physically still here on earth right And a lot of times the grief is harder for the parent that you wish for, that you longed for, that you hope that

they would magically turn into one day. And so a lot of times that's hard for people is to like process the death of what could never be and what will never be, as opposed to what is, and so we work through ways of doing that and then we move through that, and sometimes that's typically the longest part, is grieving the death of what will never be. And then of course you get to that place of acceptance.

When you get to that place of acceptance, you say, Okay, well I've gotten I've let go of the person that will never be, and now I have accepted my parents for who they actually are or that person for who they actually are. And so I'm not sugarcoating anything, and I understand this is what actually needs to be done for my mental health, for my sanity in order for me to go through life, to have the type of life that I want. I understand the ramifications of it.

I understand how this person has affected me all of these years, and I don't like that. So I'm allowing myself to be honest with myself about what this means. And then once we move to the place of acceptance, we can allow space for other people to come in

and fill that void. So I often encourage allowing space for like mother like or father like, or a grandmother like or a grandfather like figures to come into your life to provide that nurturing care and support that you wish for all those years with your parents, but you never got doctor Jones.

have that conversation. Everybody's situation is different. Sometimes people have parents that are highly volatile and it's just not safe for them to do that. So everybody's situation is different, but I don't encourage that type of conversation until you're clear, you're pretty definitive of what you're gonna do, and you're ready to be done after that. Otherwise I think that's more or less something you need to be processing with

your therapist. You need to have your own sense of clarity and autonomy on that decision and come to terms with that. In my experience, a lot of times when people go no contact when their parents, and this isn't every situation. Everybody's situation is different, but a lot of times when people go no contact with their parents, it's fine. They're not reaching out to their parents, aren't reaching out to them. That person is the only person that's keeping

the relationship alive. So there's that. You can also have parents that are highly enmeshed as well, that they want to be involved in every aspect of their child's life. But a lot of kids what they fail to realize if they don't do anything there, the other person is not going to necessarily do anything until they need or want something. And so a lot of times if they're not overdoing it trying to make that connection with the parent, things might wither away all on their own.

your boundaries, have your limits. You could certainly be cordial if you guys are going to be in the same space, but chances are if you give that parent too much energy or too much airtime, they might show up and act a fool, and you could let the other person know, right, So you could let your brother know, Hey, I'm going to show up for you, and you kind of know where I'm at with this relationship and I want to to go smoothly. But here's what I'm not open to.

And I want this day to be about you and not about our family conflict. And so these are my intentions. I'm going to show up for you. I'm going to do X, Y and Z, but outside of that, I can't be a part of all this other stuff, right, So you could set limits. You can also prepare the other person without it encroaching too much on their celebration, but you could let them know what you will and won't do and just be very graceful about it.

How is this person affecting your life? Is this something that was a one off situation or is this like something that's happened over the years many times over? Like, how do you define that? Right? Because those are words that I've used, right, And those are words that you have used and that Oprah or whomever has used. How do you define that for yourself? And a lot of

times people will have different meanings. It's also helpful to take into take culture into context because I've worked with people who are from all over so how I define things or look at things in the US might be different from how people from Africa look at things over there, right, Because the US is a very individualistic society, so we're all, hey, this is what I want from me, this is what I need from me. But then you might have people that listen to me or watch you this from a

very collectivist society. So they can't move just out of their family like we say we can move. It's going to be different. And I try to take into account cultural nuances and things like that as well.

There's some even within cultures there's subculture. Some require complete subordination, meaning that you can't say anything, or some require that if you are a woman, have to get in line right, And some people if you take it to an elder in your family and then you get some of vice from an elder, they can help you navigate the situation. So when I try to use tools within that community whenever it's possible, it's not always possible to do that,

especially if the whole family is toxic. So for example, and this isn't meant to be discriminatory or prejudice or anything. But I've worked with Arab cultures before as well, and a lot of times in several Arab cultures, the whole family could.

realistic or not. And sometimes it's not realistic to stay connected to the entire family unit without having to walk away from all of it, because all of it is toxic, all of it is abusive. We put hands on each other, men have sexually abused within my family, whatever the case may be. Sometimes we can't stay connected, and so we talk about what's realistic, what's practical, what you're willing to do, and whether or not that's feasible for you to have

some peace and clarity. I hope that helps to answer your question, doctor Joy.

managing finances. So I would say that that's huge because that's probably the number one thing that I would say that people fight over, or the number one way that people control other people as well, So I think that's number one. Number two, and again it doesn't mean it's less important. But number two is your mental health and well being. So if you have sound mind, you have confidence and wherewithal in other areas outside of your life,

you can make sound decisions for yourself. And I'm not saying that we can't make mistakes, because we can certainly make mistakes, but by and large, you know what it takes to be a functioning adult in this world, and you can manage most things. I think that's number two, right. You could take care of yourself. If your mental health gets out of balance, you will make that decision to go to therapy. You will go and take that antidepressant

if necessary. You have that way of rationalizing and taking care of yourself and prioritizing yourself in that way. Number three I would say validation. You have to be able to validate yourself. There's a good chance that when you walk away, you go no contact, you might lose a lot of the validation that you have that cycle of people that were in line with the person that was

abusive to you. You might lose family validation, you might lose family support, you might lose relationships or relationships can be deeply impacted by there could be a ripple effect. So you have to be okay with that, and sometimes a lot of people. You have to be okay with being by yourself. You got to be okay with navigating the world all alone and it's you and just you and nobody else, and nobody cares, because once you've walked away, you have become public enemy number once. You have to

be okay with navigating spaces by yourself. You have to be okay with having your birthday by yourself, having your way by yourself, all of these things, right, you have to be okay with that, And so you have to also be okay with starting over and really building your community from scratch. You don't have that choice when you're a kid, when you're little, your baby, your family and things like that are already chosen for you. But now you basically have to pick and choose, and that could

be a beautiful thing. You have to pick and choose your own community now, and so you literally have to build everything from the ground up, and so you have to be okay with that. A lot of people don't like being by themselves, and that's really one of the harder parts with them, like I don't want to be by myself. I don't want to be without my partner, I don't want to be without my parents. So you

have to be okay with being alone. You have to get comfortable with being alone and standing on your own because a lot of times that's what's wired to be an autonomous individual, to be a free thinker, to be a person that is okay with having different schools of thought. So you have to be okay with that.

I think that's the bigger thing, is feeling like you don't have to justify yourself. You don't have to explain yourself. You made this decision and you're okay with that, And I think that's the thing, is being able to navigate those conversations about that.

to walk it back, especially with family. Family knows what buttons to push because they've created and designed those buttons, and so a lot of times that disrespect would go on and on and on, and sometimes it gets to a point where you don't even know you're being disrespected anymore. You know what I'm saying, because it's so common, it's, Oh, that's just how we do things. That's how they've always

talked to me. Oh, it's no big thing until someone from the outside looking in as WHOA, what happened there? What was said there? That's crazy that your mama talks to you like that, or that your daddy talks to you like that? What is that about? And so, now that I'm older, I would say, you want to get very comfortable with drawing the first line, withdrawing the line at the first sign of disrespect, and that's with anybody, because if you don't, people will continue to disrespect you

with family and things like that. I understand you definitely want to speak to that and you want to nip that in the bud right away. But chances are, if you're listening to your podcast, my podcast, chances are you're an adult. So chances are that's been going on many years before they came to me and you to listen, right so, we're probably already at a point where it's gotten to be gotten to be crazy, and so what I would do then, is I would set the limits.

I would say, you know what, you need to do some things before we have that conversation. I'm going to pull back some of my energy. And so maybe what that looks like if my mother, as a hypothetical example of my mother has gotten comfortable with being disrespectful to me. A good example would be if I've told my mother something in confidence and my mother turns around and tells everybody who would listen all the things that I've told her in confidence, ultimately betraying me. I'm not going to

tell you things in confidence anymore. I'm not going to tell you or share things with you that I would not mind if they were published on the front page of the newspaper. So you're going to be treated just the same as I would treat like a work associate. Right when it comes to my personal information, You'll have to learn just like everybody else learns about that type of stuff, Right, So you don't get the same amount of privilege that I've just been giving you to my

own detriment, if that makes sense. So I'm a little bit more selective about what I share with you. I'm also a lot more conditional right in terms of our relationship, Like, we can't go back to a place of comfort until X, Y, and Z happens. And that's not me trying to exert my power or authority or being manipulative over my mother. It's like, in order for us to have a good relationship, or to even see if we have the potential for a good relationship, maybe we got to go to therapy.

We have to go to a neutral third party. We've got to talk about some stuff, and we have to really establish those boundaries. So if we can get back to a place of understanding, if we can get back to a place where there's respectful communication, well, I don't want to hear it thereists. I don't want nobody in my business. Well, these are what my conditions are, Like I love you as my mother, be like my conditions are.

In order for us to continue like this, we have to get to a place where we can respect each other, where we can communicate and talk to each other without you calling me everything but a child of God, without you getting out of character and things like that. So I would say, those are some of the things that we can do, but you have to be the agent

of change. Because what tends happen, especially when we're talking about our parents, especially if your parents are older, if they're like sixty, seventy, eighty ninety or however old they are, there's a good chance, I won't say always, but there's a good chance that your parents are who they are and they're not changing. They're not changing for you, they're not changing for anybody because they don't see anything wrong. So you have to be the agent of change.

And of course I appreciate you having me on here.

to check it out. Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail with your questions or suggestions for the podcast. If you have topics you think we should discuss, drop us a message at Memo dot fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind. We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist

directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls, or join us over and our Patreon for exclusive updates, behind the scenes content, and much more. You can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Indi Tubu, and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank y'all so

much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.