Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session four fifty seven of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after word from our sponsors. At the start of a new year, it's coming to see people vow to
take a month long break from alcohol. But as research continues to uncover the tool that alcohol can take on our overall health Dry January, he has evolved from a yearly challenge into a full on lifestyle change towards mindful drinking. Now a lot more of us are seeing what does it look like to invite more sober moments into everyday life. This is where the idea of sober curiosity comes in.
It's not about adopting a complete anti alcohol mindset, but about looking at it as more of an option rather than a necessity. So whether you want to swap your cocktail or a mocktail occasionally, or fully shift your habits, the journey can look different for everyone. Here to dive into exploring sober curiosity with us as our returning Kristin Fiememster as a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified personal trainer. She aims for wellness in both physical and
mental health in her work. Today we chat about what sober curiosity really means and why this movement is resonating so deeply for so many of us. We also talked about practical ways to step into sober curiosity and how to build a lifestyle that feels sustainable and rewarding for
your overall well being. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on social media using the hashtag tpg in session, or join us over in our patreons and talk more about the episode. You can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation. It's so good to see you again, Kristin.
Yes, it's nice to see you as well.
Yeah, thank you so much for coming back to chat with me. So, I have been seeing a term that has been you online and maybe even in clients are gos. I'm guessing maybe you have seen this in your practice as well, sober curious, which feels like a newer term. So what is that? What do you think people are referring to when they talk about being sober curious?
Yes, I do think that sober curious is a new term, a movement. I guess you could call it of people who are basically reevaluating their relationship with alcohol, Like maybe they don't feel like their habits are to the extreme, but they're still wanting to just take a more curious look at how it's showing up in their life and so taking the steps to reduce their intake or to stain for a period of time just to understand more about how it shows up for them.
And when you've been on the podcast previously, you've talked about your sobriety journey, right, so it has been probably tenuous plus since you have been sober. Can you talk about what was going on in your life then when you started to think, like I need to reevaluate my own relationship with alcohol.
Yes, so I'm eleven years, eleven years and some change. So we are grateful for that journey. Every day I have a different and maybe we'll talk about this so today too. You know, I had a different experience of
coming to realize my relationship with alcohol. But I do think that there were some moments in time early on, maybe before it actually became a problem for me, that I was I don't know if curious is the word, but questioning for sure how I was using it, What were the triggers I guess you could say that would lead me to drinking more or drinking less, or the environment, that sort of thing, things that I just started to notice. And so I think for me that journey has really
just been about journey. Early on was really just about coming to terms with is this still fun? I think we start to have more of a party lifestyle and do things in a more social way. And I think that through my sober curious portion of my journey, I realized that I was functioning or using it in a way trying to get back to something that had all long past, which was the fun and the lighthearted, vironrant part of just living life and maybe having a few drinks.
It started to take a turn for me, and I think that's where I started to explore, you know, how much am I actually drinking and it's this actually fun? Am I just keeping it to social settings? Or do I find that I'm drinking more in isolation? And how do I feel when I wake up the next morning? Am I able to function for my next day? Or is this really impacting the way I'm able to show up my career and my relationships and that sort of thing.
And so that questioning began my own journey to realizing that it was time to take a long break from it for myself.
Yeah, I think what you're talking about, and even the fact that there is this conversation around sober curiosity right like, speaks to this shift in our relationship to alcohol and just societally what we think about alcohol. I think historically it has felt like it was pretty harmless, you know, it's something that everybody does, like it's okay to have a few drinks. And it feels like we are now looking at it much more seriously as a substance that
can be harmful depending on the quantities. Can talk a little bit about like where we find ourselves, and like the movement towards people really reevaluating their relationship to this substance.
I think that health trends. I hope that this one's here to stay, and I hope I feel like similar to how cigarettes has shifted for good as far as how we cigarettes used to be a thing, you know, like a fun, social, advertised marketed thing for a long time, and then within recent years the advertisement and the culture
around it has changed. So I hope that something similar is happening with alcohol, to really see the genuine impact of it as being a substance, as being a toxin for the body, and maybe some of the negative impacts that we experience, such as hangovers and headaches and that sort of thing, is from the impact of that. I
hope that it is here to stay. But I also know that we are also experiencing an uptick in people aware of their mental health, people pursuing fitness in a balance way, people pursuing longevity in their health, and so I think those two components are coming together to have people realizing, particularly the mental health awareness, because I don't think we've always if anything, maybe alcohol has been seen as a way to escape your problems and to feel better.
But now we're starting to realize that, hey, that actually makes anxiety worse, that actually exacerbates my depression symptoms, and so maybe I don't necessarily need to just automatically buy
into the social culture of it. And so collectively, I think we're starting to look at longevity and look a little deeper underneath the surface as far as wellness is concerned, and so alcohol being so prominent, it makes perfect sense that it would be the first thing that we would start to look at and be like, and why are we doing this so much on our weekends in our social lives.
It's interesting that you point to wellness because I definitely know, of course the mental and physical health, But you're right, like the larger conversations around wellness I think are shining a light on what we are doing with substances. Can you talk about maybe some of those early symptoms like sleep or the physical impact that alcohol can have, Like some of those very early symptoms that might be a sign that you want to explore your relationship to substances.
What we know about alcohol is that it's a diuretic, and so it's also a toxin to the body. And so when we adjust alcohol, our body, although we get a bus or whatever feel good feelings we have, our body is trying to get rid of it as soon as possible. And so a lot of types people will notice as soon as I start drinking, I can't stay out of the bathroom, going to the bathroom over and
over again. It's actually your body trying to flush what you put in it out, and that typically for most people, if you're not careful with your water and your electrolytes while you're drinking, can lead to dehydration. So a lot of the symptoms that people notice are symptoms of dehydration, headaches, mental fog, dry mouth, different things like that. Nausea, vomiting
even can still be related to that. And when it comes to sleep, sometimes people think that alcohol is actually helping them to sleep, and although you are not awake anymore, it's not necessarily the healthiest version of sleep, and so it does depress your central nervous system, but that's only a temporary that's not a rim sleep, a healthy sleep state.
It's more of a coming into and out of consciousness, and so for a lot of people, they feel like, oh, a glass of wine or something at night, it really
helps me to go to sleep. But then I don't know the exact numbers with studies, but studies will show that sleep is not exactly RESTful as it would have been had they gotten the same amount sober and so I think there's a lot of misconceptions around that that people are starting to realize when you again pay attention, when there's an increase in conversation around it, there's an awareness that comes in and then you're able to assess
how am I actually sleeping? Do I actually feel rested in the morning, no one went to sleep, do I wake up rested? Is actually the question I think for me in my younger days, hangovers was just a part of the norm. But now it's like, but do I want to be hungover every Saturday morning or do I want to have a different experience? And so I think a lot of people are noticing that for themselves and deciding to make a shift.
Yeah, you mentioned the misconception, and I think another misconception around like alcohol and sobriety is that you have to hit rock bottom before you start to like, seriously look at your relationship to alcohol. Can you address that and talk about why that may be a misconception.
Yes, so that is a common misconception rooted in like the extremes of addiction and how it's been depicted. I think to us and really, maybe you know, because we haven't had conversations about what I like to call gray
area drinking. We usually don't come to understand an addiction until we can visibly see it in someone's life, whether it be their health, they're losing their job, losing their family, then we could observe, oh, that addiction has caused them those issues, right, And so that really leads out a whole pool of people who are also consuming alcohol at varying levels, but they just haven't hit that typical stereotypical
be homeless, isolated individual's lifestyle to really recognize it. And so when it comes to the gift we have, I guess now with having more conversations around our relationship with alcohols, that we really can stop ourselves sooner. Whether it be because you have know so physical dependence that hasn't necessarily caused a lot of intense consequences, or if you find yourself on the other side of the spectrum where you're
just not really sure why you're engaging with it. We actually have the opportunity to not wait until it's that bad, to actually start exploring yet and pulling ourselves back. I would consider myself to be one of those people, and that I got sober at twenty six, which was unheard of at the time. But you're so young, you could just you know, you don't want to just try and
see if you can manage it or whatever. And I just decided this is probably the best chance I'm going to have to address this and to live a full, vibrant life is right now. And so I also think that there were a lot more consequences that I could have it probably would have experienced had I kept drinking, But because of a healthy support system and knowing a little bit about addiction already, I was able to gather that together to take care of it sooner later.
Christ then you mentioned the term gray area drinking, and I feel like we've talked a little bit about like how alcohol has been socially acceptable and it's okay to have a couple of drinks with friends, are happy hours right, Like it really is like very it has become a thing in so many of our lives, very pervasive, without
I think us even paying attention. And it feels like there is a lot that has happened in pop culture that has also normalized this idea of having a glass of wine to relax, Like this is what I deserve after a very difficult day. Right, So I think about like Olivia Poope and her classic red wieline right with the white couch, Well, I hate yeah, how to get Away with Murder? Like it very much has been like
an idea that this is something that's very normal. What do you think about like the ways that alcohol has been glamorized in some ways and really connected to like stress relief and how that leads to maybe this great area drinking.
Yeah, it's a challenge. It's a challenge I think in sobriety and as a clinician that works with people who where it gets complicated and you can really see how people wrestle with is this normal or is this a problem for me? I get frustrated with the way alcohol is marketed and just the lifestyle of it. I can't help but see commercials during the Super Bowl or there's a commercial with a beer right now, that is kind of alluding to a guy having a better chance dating
a girl if you bring strengths over to her. And anyway, you could just read into the underlying messages and a lot of the marketing that we're fed and so sometimes I don't even think we're actually choosing to participate into the lifestyle. In a lot of ways have gotten conditioned
by way of commercial here an event there. Even in the wellness space, I've sometimes seen wellness activities paired with drinking when I think it's a way to try to market and try to get as many people as possible to see this as fun and inviting and a place to socialize, and then in participating in that that becomes the norm. So then maybe we seek them out more than we actually should and center it in our lives
more than we actually should. But I think we could also talk about how big alcohol is a I'm sure a billion dollar company, and so anything that's going to make money is going to be pushed on us, whether the consequences of that are positive or negative for us personally. So just being aware of those things at play and having those conversations can really help us shift the.
Narrative more from our conversation after the break, you know a lot about like the more we hear about like loneliness and epidemic, especially male loneliness, although we know generally people are lonely in the continuing stresses where we find ourselves post pandemic, just the state of the world right like, I think it's led to a lot of stress and people looking at alcohol as a way to relieve that stress.
Have you been having conversations or seeing things generally in your circles around like increase alcohol consumption related to all of these stressors I have.
I think naturally just for me personally getting sober early, I think my awareness of what that's looked like and conversations has kind of given me a clearer lens for what I'm hearing from my own personal relationships or the clients or with the collective. I definitely saw an increase in I think when the pandemic came. I think everybody was just sincere panic emotionally on how to cope with
something like that. And I do remember seeing a major uptick in associating being able to stay and work from home with drinking and letting loose and coping and rationalizing the use of alcohol because of feeling out of control and us not knowing what to expect and looking for something to help us escape or feel better. I think a lot of times around those stressors, we hear that with mommy wine culture, we hear that a lot in
a lot of different ways. It just becomes normalized. And when you're struggling, you don't want to always you never actually want to feel judged, and so I think that we then start to relate over the misery of it through this coping skill that is ultimately not helping. But I see that a lot with mommy culture, we can bond and we can relate on our similarities here and have this common coping for the relief of it and
the bonding that it promotes. And so it's definitely a slippery slope of what's normal and what's not normal, because everyone doesn't necessarily need to live a sober lifestyle. But anytime you're associating drinking with those emotional chile lenges, I think that it's a slippery slope for future issues.
So I'd love to stay there for a second. Because you mentioned even earlier that when you were considering becoming sober, like there were people like, oh, you're so young, is this something that you really want to do? And so for people who are thinking like, Okay, I'm not quite sure, like I'm on the sober forever train, but I do want to reevaluate or become more mindful around my relationship to alcohol. Where should they start? What kinds of questions should they be asking themselves?
Well, first, I recommend getting an understanding of how much you're drinking as is. I think if you're just living life and assuming that, oh, I think I'm drinking too much when I'm not exactly sure, I say, go ahead and get the data. Go ahead and get the data, and track you're drinking for a month, track you're drinking. Some people for a week, they might have the information
they need. But track you're drinking to see what patterns you notice, to see what the frequency is, to see what the amount is, and then from there you can decide does this seem objectively speaking, this scene normal? Because anybody's going to maybe think that they should reduce their drinking or have thoughts and feelings about it when they're experiencing a hangover, Right, that's going to be emotionally driven.
But when you can get that data on that baseline understanding of your pattern, then you can start to look and say is this normal? The CDC says it recommends no more than one drink for women no more than two drinks for men as being what they would call normal. And so it's like, do I abide by that naturally? Am I even hitting that norm or below? And if you find that you're averaging two each time you drink, then you can already know that, hey, maybe it's something
I need to further consider and ask other questions. I would also say, in this tracking, you can also understand what tends to coincide with your drinking, like is it a stressful week? Have you been going through a breakup? Are you experiencing grief? So you might even do like a mood log alongside, like when I am choosing to drink, how am I typically feeling? Are these celebratory moments? Are these isolated moments by myself where I'm dealing with a
mental health challenge? And then from there you can start to better understand that emotional connection between the two.
So thinking about like the larger conversation around the wellness space, I think that's something else that we have seen is an increase in things that are like non alcoholic beverages right or infused in other ways. I see you take a little bit of a deep red there, So I.
Would lovelies about it.
I want to hit these feelings because I feel like I don't quite know enough to know, like, Okay, where do I really stand here? And so are you feeling like these are helpful substitutes? Are they pretty neutral? Or is this something that you also want to be paying attention to, like your relationship to these other dreams.
Yeah, I think definitely paying attention to. I don't think it's neutral, and I will argue anybody down about that clinically or personally. And I think it's important to say that for most people that I do think that how we're related, and it's again, it's the substance, it's the association, it's the lifestyle itself too, you know what I mean. So we can be addicted to anything, so it's not about the substance itself all the time. It's about our
relationship and our engagement with it. And so for me, I think that it's important for everyone to assume that it's not neutral. Maybe it ends up being something that you can take or leave and there's nothing there, But don't go in assuming that it's harmless when it may actually have other implications for you. And so I struggle with this question because there's different schools of thought and there's like my personal experience with it, my professional experience
with helping people figure it out. And because the gray area is so great, it does take time to figure out what side of this youly on as far as if alcohol is serving you well at all or if you should abstain completely. And so when it comes to the mocktails and the spirit free drinks and that sort of thing, it's important to know that there's a difference in those two drinks. They're not mutually exclusive. So mocktails are my understanding and how I'd like to share with
the audiences. Mocktails are drinks that have flavor to them, have a different texture to them, like carbonation and that sort of thing. They might have different tea's, different herbs in them to get them flavor, but they may not necessarily have an alcoholic alternative in them. So you might have cranberry, you might have mint, you might have some lemon, you might have a little decorative something with some club soda, okay, but there are also other drinks where there's a spirit
free liquor involved. So whether it be a vodka, tequila, a gin, there's actually big alcohol. Companies are creating their own version of liquors basically that have a very very small percentage of alcohol content. And so if you look at some of those bottles, you'll see where it might be advertised as alcohol free, but if you look at the back, you know where the nutritional value is, you might see where it's as it actually contains point zero
five percent alcohol. And so those to me are not necessarily traditional mark tails like you would think this is completely alcohol free. Those drinks still have alcohol in them.
And so when it comes to deciding whether you are super curious and just wanting to scale back for health reasons, weight loss reasons, maybe you're studying for something you just really want to lock in and focus, versus if you have more of a problem drinking, I think that's a big distinction to make as far as these drinks may still have alcohol content in them, and so is that really abstaining, Is that really allowing myself to have a
dry period? Or is that more of what we might talk about in clinical terms being a harm reduction type of approach rather than an abstin in space type of reproach. And so I think it's important for people to be informed about that because I think I've even had a friend by alcohol free champagne for me one time, and she was like, yeah, I bought this for you. I thought it was great, it was super cute. You could
do that and we'll have our regular champagne. I flipped over to the nutritional facts on the back and I was like, actually, this actually still has alcoholic She said, Oh my gosh, I didn't even realize that that was a thing. And so I think it's good to be informed on that to know what's best for you.
Yeah, so I'm curious, Kristen. There it feels like they're also like these class of drinks that are made with maybe different kinds of like herbs or like plants, or like maybe some of them more like THHC infuse.
Would usually that.
And I have not looked enough to know even like what's on the back of those if there is like still some small percentage of alcohol there is that in the same class, or is that like a separate class of like in between my kills and you know, zero point five percent spirit something.
Doctor Joy, I don't know. It's a lot. It's a lot. And that's what happens when you have trends is that it's like it starts in one way if then you know, everyone puts their spin on it, and then it becomes something else. And so for me, I go back to key.
It's simple. If you're wanting to take a break from alcohol. Gosh, there's so many things to get into with this, but the idea of how alcohol shows up, it's physical and it's emotional, and so it's not just about removing the alcohol physically, it's about not using substances to manage your emotions and dealing with life, you know what I mean. So, in my opinion, and what I would probably recommend for anybody, especially on the front end, give yourself a chance to
really experience what abstinence feels like. And then down the road, if you decide that you want to experiment with something else, you can do that from an informed place on what sobriety actually feels like for you, and then as opposed to doing it the other way, and then you don't know whether you don't crave alcohol anymore because you're drinking this drink with THHC in it, or because you actually can kind of muddy the water and make things more complicated.
So getting to my point of we have to understand that part of this work is about being able to sit with your emotions and manage your mental health in a different way and doing that substance free, doing that alcohol free. So to replace alcohol with another type of substance it's mood altering, could potentially be getting in the way of your original intent. And so I think that's a conversation to have and a realization to come to for yourself, Like why am I struggling to just have
a sober experience? Why do I feel like a little of this and a little of that have a small percentage of that it's necessary for me to actually do this. I think that could lead to a whole other category of questions around your relationship overall.
Yeah, you mentioned, you know, like that anything really could become addictive, right, And so I think that that is something to pay attention to if this is something you struggled with, right, Like this idea that you might not even be replacing your alcohol behavior with another substance, But are you not replacing it with shopping or online scrolling
or right? Can you talk about like the need to pay attention to everything that might be happening where you might just be substituting one addiction or addictive behavior for another.
Yeah, yeah, I think that first and foremost. With my clients, I try to tell them that you're human. You're a human being dealing with get and sitting with your emotions all at one time. When you've been used to coping in a certain way, it's going to be hard. So give yourself grace, Give yourself grace with this. In a lot of time, when people are taking a break from alcohol,
they might notice that their sugar cravings go up. Because alcohol is a sugar when it's broken down the body, it has the same function in some ways in the body, and so once you reduce that have it you might find I think I'm craving something sweet more than I used to, and so you may notice that and may need to be mindful of that as well. But giving yourself grace and time to figure out what that is
and to not be too too hard on yourself. But I think ultimately, the concept and the mindset that you have to wrap your head around is that I'm doing this in order to live life on life's terms more and to experience what it's like to deal with my emotion, to deal with my life, to practice new skills in a way that alcohol wasn't really allowing me to do.
And so when I removed the alcohol, it's not about replacing it with another compulsive, feel good dopamine kick, but also maybe building out some other skills, some other hobbies, some other outlets, some other supports, so that you don't fall into the trap of overly consuming social media or overly consuming television, or overly consuming anything, because again that's still the lifestyle of chasing something to feel better other rather than just sitting in your experience.
You know, because I'm really curious to hear how this might look in like the therapist's office, because we know clients come in with like their checklist of things that brings them to therapy, right, Like maybe it's communication, maybe it's stress management, whatever. But if you are working with a client and you recognize, like, huh, there's something going on here, I feel like as a clinician around alcohol, right,
but that is not an express concern for them. How might or would you introduce that as something to pay attention to with a client if that's not something they bring in as a concern for them.
Is there a way to do that?
And that doesn't feel like judging?
Yeah, I do, I do. I think for me, I kind of get a different I get a different experience of that because I am public with my sobriety. So a lot of my clients are aware that I'm sober, and so they sometimes feel more inclined to have those conversations or even seek me out because they know that I have that background. So it does make having that authority of gently mentioning it a little bit easier because of that commonality or that understanding already. But I try
to work to question. We're not going to scapegoat anybody's use over anything else, but start to do some motivational interviewing and some questioning, just like I would do anything that seems to be a problem, maybe helping them to see a pattern in something. And it may take a while. I say, in my personal and professional spaces, I have experience having to wait for someone to come to their own understanding of that, and that may take months, that
may take years. But what I'll do in the therapy room is try to help them figure out what's the pattern here? Okay, this happens, Okay, now tell me more about once the stressor trigger or something kids than what you do, Well, that's when. And if it's not alcohols, a lot of times it's food that I help my clients with too, And they'll say, well, and then that's when I end up drinking to feel better. And I was like, okay, well, how long do you feel better for?
And then they'll say, oh, you know, a couple of hours, and then I end up going to sleep and I'll wake up the next day. I'll just ask more questions out of curiosity about how that substance or whatever that behavior is, just like we would with any other behavior, to help bring it more gradually into the conversation, and
through that they may come to a realization. I noticed that every time we do this, maybe I might even asked, what are you noticing any consistencies between these three different events that we've discussed over the last couple of sessions. Give them a chance to mention, and then I say, meg, if it's all right, Can I share with you what I'm seeing, and then I might find a way to say I'm noticing that typically alcohol is involved in these
situations that you're having. Have you noticed that? Have you thought about that? And that usually leads to a larger conversation and a lot of times clients are already considered exploring it, and so it can sometimes be helpful to go ahead and lead them in that direction and break the ice.
Something you've mentioned a couple of times is that a lot of this work is around like sitting with your emotions. Right, Like that, we are often turning to alcohol or some other substance or activity because we're running from something or not wanting to sit with something. What does that actually look like?
Like?
What kinds of skills are you sharing or teaching clients around how to actually sit with whatever this discomfort is so that they are not turning to alcohol.
What I typically start with is trying to help my clients to name how they're feeling a lot of times we'll have like a physical sensation of appointment or missing someone, or grief or anger or depression, but we're not quite able to give it language, and so I walk them through the naming of using the feelings will look at all feelings will to help them connect with how they're
feeling physically with an emotion, you know. And once they get in the habit of being able to recognize that when I feel this in my chest, and when I feel this ache over my right shoulder, you know, whatever their indicators are, that usually lets me know that I'm frustrated about something. And then once they understand that aspect, we go into their skills of and what usually helps me in that moment. We practice deep breathing. I go for a walk, I journal, I call my friend, I
sit and I let myself cry. I know that when I feel that way, I need to release and let myself be sad. Find out a lot of my clients have a hard time eating in session, just letting themselves sob and just really emotionally release. And then once they do that the challenges they're having around something. It doesn't take the issue away, but it just allows them to kind of come back up to a more manageable place
where they can navigate it. And so, if you are feeling some sort of way in your body because of a stressful work day or an argument, and then you reach for alcohol, which is suppressing all of that. You never really get to learn what that emotion feels like and what it looks like to work through it in another way. But oftentimes it's just letting to yourselfself cry.
A lot of times when clients have not really allowed themselves to naturally like maybe they've solved after a few drinks, but it hasn't been like a natural emoting situation where they've allowed themselves to grieve something or to be sad
about something. And so sometimes because simply be practicing that in session, We're not going to do anything else but just let you let your tears fall and see how you feel in about ten minutes and I'll hold space with them five ten minutes and just let them feel what they need to and then we debriefit afterwards.
You were talking earlier, Kristin, you mentioned that at some point in the work you might move to a more harm reduction strategy as opposed to like complete sobariety, which it feels like maybe this sober curious kind of language falls with and can you talk more about harm reduction and like when you might have that kind of conversation with a client.
Yeah, harm reduction For those who don't know, harm reduction is a clinical term that we use primarily not only in treatment centers, but primarily in treatment centers or as a as an alternative for helping with the high risk
behaviors that are around addiction. And so, for example, if we're talking about someone with a drug problem that is using fitanol or heroine or something, that might be a harm reduction practice might be to give them controversial but to give them clean needles instead of them using ones that could maybe spread disease and that sort of thing.
And so in the concept of exploring your relationship with alcohol, if you've been drinking for drinks when you go out with friends, this harm reduction approach could be about reducing that to two and then supplementing the other ones with the mocktail so that you can still have whatever social lubricate you need as far as having a drink and not feeling pressure to explain where you are your journey and go too far into it, which sometimes can happen
in social settings. But you're also reducing the harm that's causing to you to have four drinks in one sitting, and that could tie into now you're not driving home. If you've been driving, you can more so make healthier decisions around how you handle your relationship with alcohol just
by supplementing. But I will say that harm reduction isn't a fix all for everybody, and so sometimes we can justify or prolonged abstinence entertaining a harm reduction or just management moderation type of approach when really it's time to abstain and take ourselves out of straddling the fence on our youth sober all.
What's that line for you, Kristin, Maybe as a clinician and maybe even personally, if you think back to where somebody is moving beyond just being mindful of their relationships to alcohol versus like this is now something more serious where we have to maybe get in treatment, impatient involved, or like a higher level of care, Like what's that line?
When I think about the sober curious lifestyle, I think of it as being something light and fun and something to explore, you know what I mean, And something that I'm not saying that it won't be hard, but there's an element of ease it's supposed to come. You're supposed to be feeling better, doing better, moving better. All these
different things. And so if you find that you're really struggling with what that means for you to be sober for a period of time, and you're not experiencing joy and you're not maybe even if you are experiencing some of the positive benefits, if you find emotionally you're not enjoying it, then that might speak to your relationship with alcohol a little bit more like what it's been giving you and what you've been using it for, And so
that could be an indicator. I would also say that sometimes we might carry over the same behaviors into the
sober curious lifestyle. So let's say, for example, you are exploring sober curious lifestyle and you're going to try the mocktails, right, Well, if you're still going into the same social environments and you're drinking four mocktails, there might be a sign that there's still some preoccupations, some associations, something that that even that just behavior is giving you, it's not going to go away just because alcohol is in present, meaning that if you add the alcohol back, that same type of
relationship is going to continue. So if you're finding it hard to hold to your goal, say you set a goal for thirty days and you find that by day fifteen, sixteen seventeen, you're like, okay, maybe i'll just make it fifteen, and you're changing the goalposts. That could be another sign that the sober curious journey, it's nothing wrong with it,
it's to gain it for me. So it's maybe just assuming that it's telling you something more about how to take it more seriously for yourself, right, And so it could be that it could be if you're doing this two drinks, two normal drinks and then mixing in some mocktails, if you find that that number, you start like bartering that number, like say, okay, well maybe I'll just let myself do three this time or maybe four this time, and it keeps moving. I think that's another sign that
your relationship with alcohol needs more attention. So anything that is increasing the tolerance that you have, the amount and the frequency that you're engaging with either the mocktails or regular drinks during this time, I think is something that would be at least a yellow flag, if not a red flag.
More from our conversation after the break, I know the last time that we tell on Kristen, and even today you've talked about like support systems. How important that was for you and just for anybody who's exploring sober curiosity or being sober or assident, all of those things. You if a friend comes to you and says, hey, you know, I'm thinking about becoming sober, I'm sober curious, I want
to do more exploration around my relationship to alcohol. What does it look like to actually be a supportive friend?
I think that for my friends out there that are wanting to be supportive, here's what I'll say is that when someone is coming to you to talk about their relationship with alcohol and sharing that information with you, that means that they value your friendship and that they see you as a safe friend. And so the best thing you could do is embody that with your response, right, because it's hard to come and share vulnerably about a struggle.
So someone's coming to you that's already speaking to how they see you and what they need from you, and so avoid and stay away from judgment and guilty. I'm like, really, you're gonna stop drinking before our birthday trip? How could you like something like that? Keep that maybe you need to grief some things about what your friend is. The changes they're making maybe you need to, but don't put that into that space. But they really see you as
a safe person. I would say, instead of judgment, instead of guilting them around it, become curious yourself, like, okay, well tell me more about how you came to this conclusion and what does that look like for you. And once you under have better understanding of that, you might also try to support them in creating opportunities for you all to maintain your friendship that aren't surrounded by alcohol
or centered around alcohol. For example, I had a good friend who had a birthday celebration and she did it through a fitness class instead of a brunch with drinks, and so she's currently not drinking. She knows that I'm sober. I was like, this is perfect. I don't have to worry about you know what I'm saying. I'm just in my environment. This is a great way to stay active, to have fun. We had music, we were moving, everything else was good. It's just that alcohol was not the
center of that experience. And then the last thing I would say for friends is just celebrate your friend friends. If they tell you that, hey, I'm ten days sober, thirty days sober, if they share a milestone with you, if they share anything that is moving them towards their goals, even if you don't quite understand everything about it, celebrate
them because it's hard. It's hard to make that decision when, like we said, the world around you is promoting the alternative the other, and so be curious, create spaces for them and celebrate them.
You know. One of the unfortunate things it feels like that happens when somebody mentions that they are sober, is that there tends to be this like, oh my gosh, what a buzz killed. Oh I can't believe, Like you mentioned, like, oh, you're gonna do.
This before our birthday trip? Right?
What do you think that somebody else expressing their desire to be sober brings up such defensiveness in some people?
I think because when you're drinking, it lowers your inditions. You know, you're not thinking with your brain fully online And so is it fun? Yeah, I mean we don't have to make it seem like it's just all that. I mean, there are some fun elements to letting loose and letting go and presumably being stress free for a moment. That's why it catches a lot of people up right, so we can understand the grief around someone deciding to
do differently. But I also think that sometimes it can hold up a mirror to things that person is not there yet with And so sometimes it's like they can even be supportive and but say yeah, but not for me, or distance themselves, or they might outright say something. And I think that might be something more of a projection of realizing that perhaps in a hypothetical scenario, without my drinking buddy, now who am I going to drink with? Because I'm not ready to do that, to go down
that journey just yet. And so I think it can come out of just being resistant to change. And so by you changing, it's naturally going to change your friendships. And so some of those friends may struggle with a change that they didn't necessarily opt into, and you might be hearing some of that frustration.
Isn't there any language that you can give our community to borrow? Maybe you mentioned around and you find yourself in situations where maybe you're with people who aren't really close friends or like maybe they're coworkers, and you are wanting to be sober, but you don't want to have to go into your whole life story and talk about
why you're making this decision. Are there anything that you can offer for people to be able to stay in the moment, to set a boundary, but like, keep it moving kind of thing.
Don't over complicate it. I think that when we get into explaining things, that's when we usually trip ourselves up. And so my therapist taught me this, and I teach my clients this is that you're informing them of a decision. You're not asking for their permission, You're not asking for them to agree or to make you feel better about it.
You're informing them. And so Eden just that mindset shift from I'm not explaining to them, oh, I'm not drinking because you know the headaches and I just couldn't do it anymore. You have to give them the whole story. You're just informing them, and even that can shorten what you feel like you need to say. Because I'm not drinking tonight really is all you have to say. And even if they ask, well, really, why not I why don't you just have one? You can still reiterate, yeah,
I'm just not drinking tonight. Period. But when you go into explaining I think that's where the burden of it and the heaviness comes. It was just like, oh, how am I going to get myself out of this conversation?
So I would encourage people to go in and say, I'm going to inform my friends of my decision for tonight, and it's going to be what it's going to be, it's final, as opposed to oh gosh, how am I going to explain to them why I'm not drinking and what happened last weekend and how that's a little bit more again giving them more than they really need to
know about it. So I'm not drinking tonight, Eden's maybe not sharing it with them, but explain it to the server can be helpful to have the server not continually come around and ask you you're letting him know it, lets friends know all at one time, and then you can lessen the pressure there. But honestly, if you can really realize it, saying I'm not drinking tonight or today, or I don't want to drink as being all you have to say, really lightens the burden of it in social settings.
Thank you for that. I think that will be incredibly helpful for people who have been struggling with like cause you're right, like we get into like all of it explaining and like, how do I say this when it really could just be as simple as no, thank you, I'm not interested in that tonight.
I'm not interested yet. It's again, it's your confidence around it. It's your shortness surrounded. I think that since people like, oh, okay, well she's sure, she's just informing me, you know, when you seem a little shaky, that it's just like, okay, tell me more. Why did it? You know? And then but when you inform them, they're like, oh that okay, Well there's that moving on right right.
For somebody who may be enjoying our conversation and they are newly sober curious, is there one small step they can take this week to kind of go a little further on their journey.
I would say, if you are drinking, still actively drinking, do the tracking, do the tracking of how much you're drinking for the next week and just see how get an understanding of that. And if you're not active drinking and don't plan on it, give yourself maybe go ahead while you're in this space of being curious and give yourself the gift of sobriety for a period of time. Maybe just commit to something small, like just commit to the week. You don't have to commit to the rest
of your life. I know when I got sober, I was not thinking about eleven years from that point at all. Then even at this point, I'm not thinking about your twenty I'm just thinking about eleven years and however many months like staying in the day. But go ahead, if you're thinking about it, if you're listening to this podcast, if you've been exploring it, that's all you really need to just lean a little bit more and honor that.
And so if you're still drinking, not ready to quit or take a break at all, I would say you can just start out by tracking judgment free. Or if you're in a place where you're sober listening to this and you want to give it a go, go ahead and try a week of just full sobriety and mark your mood and kind of journal a little bit about what that experience is like. And then from that place of information you can decide and warm your next steps
after that. But start now, Start now with something that you can be consistent with.
Kristin what's one piece of advice that you would give your eighteen year old self.
Oh wow, oh wow, doctor Joy, I don't know just that. I mean I would, gosh, we could have a whole yana fix my life with my eighteen year old self. But seriously, but I would just tell her, I think that this is a little bit longer than me what you asked for. But I think I was just so insure of myself and my skills and my gifts and my strengths. When I thought that I needed more. I thought I needed more courage and more intelligence and more.
And when I think about the role alcohol played in my life even at that age, because I know we're not supposed drink till twenty one, that's another story. I was trying to fill in the gaps of insecurity and feeling inadequate. It's like, gave me some wings, made me feel like I could be in this space and be myself and that sort of thing. But if I could just somehow get to heard, say, the personality that you have, the quirkiness that you have, the silliness, the awkwardness, the
intelligence that you have is your strength. And don't dim it, don't dim it, don't be ashamed of it. I think that would have really helped me along the way.
Thank you, Bill offer than that. I appreciate that, Chris. So Chris, it remind us where we can stay connected with you. What is your website, any social media channels you are you'd like to share, and any new offers or new programming that you're offering through your practices.
Yes. So, my website is B three by Kristen dot com. That's the letter B, the number three by Kristen dot com. I'm on Instagram with my name at Kristin Feaster, TikTok, the same YouTube, the same so on other platforms. It's my personal name. And right now I am accepting clients for therapy in North Carolina. In South Carolina, I can
see individuals and couples. I help individuals and couples with topics such as this, how addictions showing up in their life, other habits, other patterns, other cycles and things that they are trying to work on, and so I can serve
people in both North Carolina and South Carolina. For that, I also have a wellness community called the B three Crew, and everyone in there are women over the age of thirty five who are really coming to terms with what wellness looks like for them, and so they are working on being consistent with their fitness journey, and they're working on improving their mental health through the courses and the
resources that I offer within my wellness community. So if therapy is not quite a fit, or if you already have a therapist and you just need some more supplemental day to day, week to week resources, the B three crew community is that supplemental element to a lot of people's therapy journey, and people in there are sober curious,
they are working all their relationship with food. There's a lot of deeper work that's going on, so you'll find someone that looks like you and relate to what you're going through perfectly.
Be sure to include all of those resources in our show notes. Thank you so much for sending some more time with us today, christ and I really appreciate it.
Yes, thank you, doctor Joey.
Thanks of course, I'm so glad Kristin was able to join me for today's conversation. To learn more about her and her work, be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session four fifty seven, and don't forget to text two of your girls right now and tell them to check out the episode. Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail with
your questions or suggestions for the podcast. If you have topics you'd like us to discuss, drop us a message at Memo dot fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind. We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls or join us over in our Patreon community for exclusive updates, behind
the scenes content, and more. You can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Alice Ellis, Indichubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care,