Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session three ninety nine of the for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors. Relationships and freedom can
they truly coexist? This episode from our archives revisits a powerful discussion sparked by a question from our community, how do you navigate the idea of losing some of your freedom in a relationship? In this episode, I'm joined by doctor Maria de Menuez, LMFT, also known as doctor D. Together, we unpack what it means to navigate freedom and relationships, how to define what freedom looks like for you and the key conversations to have while dating that can provide clarity.
We also explored how to build a relationship culture that evolves with the many changes you and your partner will experience over time. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hash TVG in session. Here's our conversation. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, doctor Dominguez.
Thank you for having me. I am so excited to be here. Yeah.
So we have been having a very riveting, I would say, conversation over in the Instagram comments. So we posted a question last week, and our new features help us a start out, and that's where audience or community members can kind of submit a question or a topic they want to discuss with the collective and have people weigh in on it. And so one of the questions last week was about how do you maintain your sense of freedom while being in a relationship.
And needless to.
Say, the comments section has been jumping and so you shared beautifully, which is why I wanted you to come on the podcast to talk more about this, because it definitely feels like something is happening right that people are feeling that were at least a lot of people who commented or feeling that their sense of freedom is in some way threatened by the possibility of being in a relationship.
So I just want to hear your thoughts on what you kind of think maybe shaping this kind of of a conversation and narrative that people are holding on to.
Absolutely. First, I'll share from my own personal, individual perspective, and then I'll go out And what I shared in the comments was my own experience, right because I am in a relationship. I've been married for nine years and we've known each other since high school, so it's like
a fifteen year marriage. And I was sharing about how throughout, you know, through those fifteen years, you do a lot of changing, Like I'm definitely not the same sixteen year old or seventeen year old that met him, and through those years, like different changes come and the response to those changes differ. Some of those changes were welcomed, you know, it was welcome with open arms, and like yes, other of those changes got decided like where is this coming from?
You know, who are you? And so for myself, one thing that I realize I got confused with this whole idea of freedom was expecting or kind of anticipating the person's support to be necessary for me to move forward with that. And so what liberated me and my process was realizing, like, the reason we even work is because we compliment each other, and we compliment each other because we're different people, we have different perspectives, and at times
that's exactly what I need. At other times, like I want us to be working in unison, but sometimes I like using the metaphor of like being singing in unison versus singing in harmony, And sometimes that harmony is so much more beautiful. But to have that harmony, you do
need to learn how to marry that difference together. And so understanding that when I do not receive the support that I want or that I long for or that I anticipate, it is up to me to know how who look inward and understand, Okay, why do I want to do this? Why do I feel so strongly? What is it that you know my intuition is guiding me to do? And how can I do it? How can I encourage myself? How can I support myself even if I'm not getting that support need met by this particular person.
You know, I can reach out and have that met by a family member or by a friend, or by someone in my spiritual community. And so that's kind of what was really important for me at that individual level. And yeah, my understanding of freedom and a relationship and a lot of people seeing the resonate with that.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I love this whole part of you kind of turning internally right and kind of reflecting for yourself, like, Okay, what is it that I am looking for? And so I'm wondering, you know, what can you share with maybe other people about.
How to do that internal process?
Oh yeah, so I for myself and I know a lot of other people. Journaling is big, and journaling in the way in which you're asking yourself questions. Because when you ask yourself a question, just the way a brain is wired, like, it automatically starts creating some kind of solution. And when we're writing it out or whether you're doing a video journal or audio journal, like, then your brain, you know, it tries to put the pieces together and
it usually brings some kind of revelation to you. And so writing has been very important in my healing and liberating process. But I know for other people that I've worked with or I speak with, using music or using some kind of creative process to express what it is that they're feeling or going through really helps them to be able to uncover that. But it's about like recognizing
and sitting with whatever it is you're feeling. So if you're feeling that, like that discomfort of I'm feeling trapped or I'm feeling contrained, like, don't brush it off. I know for myself sometimes in the past I would just be like, well, you know, that's Mary Vife for you. No, not necessarily, it doesn't have to be that way. So where is this coming from? What is it that I'm
feeling uncomfortable? And really discovering that and bringing that to the surface, because once you understand what the core is, then you could deal with it so much more effectively.
So I would imagine that there may be some people listening who are thinking, whoa is this how I'm feeling? Like?
Am I feeling like my freedom is being threatened?
So can you give us some ideas about like how would you even know if this is something that you're struggling with.
Resentment is a very good warning sign. So if you're starting to feel resentment, then that that's probably a sign that, yeah, that there might be some some feelings of a loss of freedom there.
Got it.
Yeah, And that resentment I think can speak to a lot of different things, right, Like I think we've even talked about on the podcast how that resentment is a warning sign of like a needing to tighten up on boundary are you know, lots of different things kind of pop up as resentment. So I definitely agree that you're feeling resentment. There's a need to kind of look at what's happening there.
Yes, And then those feelings we touched on it a little bit earlier of like of being tracked or even the idea that another person being involved then means that you somehow have a little bit less power or a little bit less privilege. And that's not necessarily the case unless we allow it to be so.
And so I'm wondering if there are any kinds of things that you can be on the lookout for, or are there questions that you can ask maybe in the dating relationship that will kind of give you a sign about what this might look like in a long term relationship between you and someone else.
Oh, that's a good question, and I definitely think that both of you talking about what your expectations are right. And so I remember someone in the comments was talking about what does that freedom actually mean? Does it mean that you want to go out and stay out late? Does it mean that you want to do this? Want
to do that? So, like in the dating relationship, have clear expectations, Like a lot of the times when I'm doing my couple's therapy, it's that mismatch of expectations that was never discussed earlier on in the relationship that presents
itself later on. So expectations about what's appropriate or inappropriate when it comes to building relationships with people of other sexes, or what they believe to be inappropriate when it comes to what's forgivable or what's not forgivable, or when divorce can be put on the table or not put on the table, or all of these things. Even money, what's appropriate? How involved are we going to be in each other's finances?
Like all of these things and expectations. A lot of the times we just assume that our partner thinks the way that we do, and it's not until we're confronted with that difference then we realize there's a totally different way of looking at this.
Yeah, And I think a lot of that pre work is really important because there are some things that you just don't even imagine will come up in partnership and you're like, whoa, where did that come from? And it kind of comes from, you know, not discussing some of these really important topics that I think are important to talk about kind of early on in a partnership.
Yeah. Yeah, I like the idea of even discussing, like, what is this evolution going to look like? Because sometimes people expect that how this relationship started, this is how it's going to look like for the next ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty plus years, and taking into account and maybe even you know, discussing with each other like what does that
change look like? And how are we going to nurture support or not when those changes come up, because we do change over the years, and how do we meet our partners still lovingly and embracing those.
Changes more from our conversation after the break.
Mm hmm. And I want to dig into that a little bit more, doctor D because I feel like that is really hard, especially when we ourselves don't always know how we're going to change, like in the next ten years, right, Like things happen, your interest change, and you know, so the commitment that you made early on in the partnership may look very different ten years in, right, And so how do you navigate that?
Cause?
I feel like in some ways, like some changes are small, right, like you change your hair.
Or you know, something like pretty simple.
But then there are other changes like you know, you taking a job that requires you to travel a whole bunch when you didn't used to, or you know, like changes that really impact.
The family unit in bigger ways.
And so how do you have those kinds of conversations and creative partnership that allows for both people to change in those ways?
That is? That is such a powerful question. I face with that question a lot, especially because of the population of people I work with and live with as a military spouse. Often a lot of those changes occur because it's part of the job, right. A lot of our service members are forced to go through a lot of transitions. They experience and witness a lot of trauma, and there's a lot of isolation and loss of support systems building
up a network. But then you know, being moved to another one, and there is a lot of that sense of a loss of freedom because you know, you might have to throw your five year plan out the window, like you have no idea where you'll be living five years from now, or things like that and so and the ways in which we change and we grow up or we may say stuff when we do experience traumatic events that has an impact on our personality as well.
And what I found from working with military families, also working with families that go through a lot of transition, a lot of spouses of business women, men and women that need to travel a lot, and they stay home, or they may have chosen to put their career on hold while they take care of the children while their
partners traveling all of those things. Then all of these couples have to look at each other and figure out what is still tying us all of these changes happen, we change ourselves, but how do we still stay connected?
And that answer looks very different for every couple, But like figuring out, like what is our bond based on and then having that acceptance that many of these other things will change, But like our commitment to these vows, or our spiritual connection or our attachment bond to each other or our love for this is always going to remain and I've seen that a lot of couples have found that to be what they hold on to and be able to cope with a lot of these other
changes in our personalities as a result of you know, what life throws at us.
So I think something else that happens, and you often hear this whole expression of oh, she lost herself in the relationship. Oh yeah, right, So I want to touch on that a little bit and kind of talk through like how that happens and what that looks like, because I think that that can be something that contributes to this waking up one days realizing like, oh my goodness,
like who am I in this relationship? So can you talk a little bit about like maybe if you had a client who came in and said, you know, five years into this relationship and I'm realizing, I don't know what my interests are.
I don't feel like I've lost myself in this relationship.
Yeah, And a lot of times that losing themselves with the clients and they come up and I can relate to that feeling as well. A lot of times it's triggered when we notice that we're not doing things that we used to before, or we dropped habits that we used to have, or maybe we were very career oriented people and then we chose to stay home and take care of the children or travel for a year with
our normalces, or whatever the case may be. But there was something that we had as a priority or we were really committed to at one point, and then we no longer practice that or engage in that, and then we're like, okay, now what. And so one way I like to kind of reframe it or look at it is, Okay, how do you want to recreate yourself? Who is it that you want to be now? Because the power that
we have is the power to reinvent ourselves. So because you know, maybe five or ten years ago you might have really been interested in writing, but now you have found that there's something else that's calling your attention, or
there's something else that you're really interested in. But again that it's coming back to that self reflection piece is the spending time with yourself and figuring out what is it that I need most now and you being your biggest advocate for having those needs met versus expecting or anticipating someone or something outside you to guide you in that direction.
Mm hmmm.
I love that information and is there a way to really kind of tap into that for yourself.
So you've already mentioned journaling.
Yes, and I like bonding with other people who have had similar experiences. So that's part of what I love with the community that you're building, because that question itself, like, that's not something that I've had a lot of conversations about. But then we make these taboo topics open and we connect to each other about that, and then we understand, Okay, it's not only me, and there are other people that have found this way to do it or that way
to do it. And so just finding a safe space, finding community, and allowing your experience to be heard even that process in itself, because sometimes when you say something and then you hear the words actually come out of your mouth, you're like, oh shoot, Sometimes you know it's that conviction, or sometimes it's like, oh that's a really good idea. You know, I want to go forward with that.
So not allowing yourself to be isolated is also really helpful in you figuring out, Okay, what is it that I need or how is it that I want to move forward, so looking for community, and yeah, that also helps you in that process of self reflection because we kind of have some kind of contrast or feedback.
So a lot of the suggestions you're offering require us to maybe have some very difficult conversations. Anyway, we know those are not always easy. So can you talk a little bit about like the kind of internal work and the kind of personal work you might need to do either to have this conversation with somebody you're dating or partner with, or even with yourself, Like I think sometimes there's some work that needs to be done before you can be even honest with some of the pieces of yourself.
I agree one hundred percent, And I love the concept of emotional intelligence. The way I was raised, emotions were
frowned upon. I suppose it was something that you know, it's not it's irrational, like logic, you know, came first, and so like, I ended up reaching a point where I would emotionally cut off or shut off right Still, in many ways, I'm so grateful for the transition that I'm sensing in our culture and society in general, but there are still many areas where emotions are frowned upon or they're seen as less than And so I like the idea of emotional intelligence because our emotions are a
source of intelligence. Our emotions point to an area that needs to be healed, or it points to something that needs to be resolved, or it points to something that needs a little bit more attention. And so if we're feeling like we're trapped, if we're feeling like we're losing a sense of freedom or we're lose using ourselves, that is absolutely something that we need to pay more attention to,
that we need to listen to. And I like to talk about emotions being messengers and sitting with the emotion and trying to understand, Okay, what is it that you're trying to communicate to me, Especially if you keep on feeling that emotion intensely or coming to you over and
over and over again. Try to think about it as some messenger coming to you, trying to communicate something that is going to help you move forward, something that is trying to help you be more resilient, or trying to help you have a little bit more balance in your life. And being able to sit with that and understand what you're feeling and what it is that you need as a result of that, whether that be anger or sadness or feeling isolated or of a loss of freedom, all
of those things. And going through that process was how I came to the realization about you know, me using that support and confusing it with permission. And I realized, Okay, yes I'd like support, of course who wouldn't. But when I don't get it, I can still move forward with what's important to me versus oh, I'm not getting support, so I'm.
Not going to do that more for my conversation after the break. And I think that that's the important piece, right, And I think we talked about this on the podcast too, just this like internal knowing in this sense of intuition, and sometimes we don't pay attention to you, right, but that really is usually a very important message for us
to actually tap into. Absolutely, yeah, And I think you know that is the hard part of just figuring out like how you can really pay attention to that, how you can kind of tap into what message your intuition is trying to give you.
Right, and literally just asking that question so you know, whether that's a journal prompt or whether you have like an empty chair in the room and you're like, you know what, sit down, sit down chains or sit down pain or sit down anger? What is it that you're
trying to tell you right now? And sometimes, you know, stepping outside and kind of looking bigger picture, it gives you that flexibility and asking that question gives your brain the opportunity to try to find the solution for that versus.
You know, a lot of times we're just trying to shy away from it, or trying to numb it away or something else, but just inviting it and asking it to reveal its message or teach you what it is that's important for you to grasp or whatever the case may be in that moment.
And I would imagine that sometimes you know, like let's say you've done your own work in terms of your emotional intelligence and you're paying attention to your emotions and what they're trying to teach you. But that may come up against a partner who has not necessarily done that work, right,
So you're trying to have these conversations. You know, you have done all the work, but then this person has not, and so you're trying to have this conversation maybe about how you see yourself changing and what the relationship might look like now that you've changed, but they have not done that work. So do you have any suggestions about, like how to navigate that kind of a conversation.
I was like, I saw where this is going on. As soon as you're saying that, I was like, Lord, it's not It's definitely not easy because just us going through that process ourselves, it takes so much work, so much energy, and it would be ideal, it would be so beautiful if we could bring that that work, that gift that we that diamond that we mind for, you know, going through all that emotion and present it to our partner and they're like appreciative of it and it knowledge
and acknowledge it in all those things. However, a lot of times when we come into our partner, they might still be stuck in let's just say a different level of emotional intelligence, and so you are having a hard time trying to be heard or feel understood or feel seen. And so it's about again, when you meet that like being very aware of how you make meaning of that. So one way you can interpret that is, oh my gosh, this person doesn't care about me. They don't love me.
Another way we could go like the name calling route, you know, or we can respond to that in so many different ways, but it's paying attention to, Okay, what
story am I making about their response? And so if they respond in a way that isn't supporting you, or that isn't he hearing you, or they might get really defensive, or they might take it like you're trying to criticize them or text them or whatever, it's about you understanding that, Okay, we're not in a place where we're seeing eye to eye, we're not in a place where we're understanding each other.
I see that they're operating from defensiveness, or they're operating from anger, or they're you know, whatever the case may be. But you doing the work to make sure that you understand where you are operating from because then that that gives you the power not to fall into into that trap of them being reactive and like controlled or manipulated
by whatever it is that they say. And so just noticing, like exactly you were mentioning the question, like they're not in a place where they're able to hold the intensity of the emotion or the brownness of this issue that I'm bringing to them, right now and if you are in the early stages of a relationship, like that's one thing that you could pay attention to, Like how emotionally
intelligent is this person? Like is this person someone who is a will to hold and process emotion or is this someone that just tries to like dodge or numb stuff away? Like those are good signs for you to know whether or not this is someone that I could work through life scrap with.
Got it?
Yeah, I think that is important, Like we talked about earlier, like Okay, what are some of these questions or what can I be paying attention to you? This is something that you definitely can be paying attention to. Yeah, So I think it's also important to kind of broaden the conversation a little because we've been talking a lot about like if I'm changing and I feel like I want to do more in the relationship, like how do I
navigate that? But I also think that there is a threat in the relationship or it often feels like a threat when your partner is changing.
Right, So what if you wake up and.
Realize like that your partner is changing in ways that you didn't expect, and now the threat that you experience is like their burgeoning freedom or them wanting more freedom in terms of the relationship.
Yeah, I don't know how I feel about this because I feel like I'm bringing it back to the self again, because then the question that comes to my mind is isn't that what you want unless you know it's not. But if your spouse or your partner experiencing freedom in the safety of a relationship, is that not a beautiful thing? And so if you feel threatened by your partner expressing themselves in a different way, or if you feel threatened
by your partner changing, where is that coming from? Are you fearful that they may have less commitment to the relationship? Is it bringing up something else from previous experiences? But yeah, then I would be curious as to why your partner is sparking some kind of fear of panic.
Mm hmm, yeah, that panic feeling. It feels like that is something people can really connect to, right, And I think paying attention to that for yourself can give you a lot of information about the relationship and about like how you may be both are showing up in the relationship. That them shifting a little or you know, spreading their wings in a little gives you.
An internal panic feeling, right right, mm hmm.
And I think, you know, if we kind of go back to the original question around like what our partner may be feeling, that maybe some of it, you know, so thinking about how you maybe would be feeling can give you some insight into maybe how they're feeling as well. Absolutely so, doctor de can you maybe share some characteristics of what a relationship looks like when freedom is celebrated, when there is this kind of space, like what might that relationship look like?
That relationship would welcome curiosity for sure, and so it would be when one of the partners is dabbling into something different, are they showing up, you know, with a new traite or a new pattern, just being curious and understanding you know what is inspiring that because a lot of times when we do change, it is because of some kind of experience that we've had or some kind of new aha moment or insight that we went through. And so that curiosity allows space for a new level
of intimacy. And so when we're able to connect in that way, that's not only encouraging, like intimacy at an intellectual level, it's also at an emotional level. And that might even be open to sharing some of those new experiences with them, so that you know that would look like providing that support even though you may not have chosen to do that yourself, but because your partner is showing interest in that, just at least being curious or
opening open to seeing what that is about. Also just increasing communication and again just yeah, exploring what those changes are about and redefining what the future may look like as a result, because in most relationships, what we envision the relationship to look like day one is very different from what we envision the relationship looking like year one, year,
five year, ten, year twenty. As we evolve, our relationships evolved, and being able to communicate with each other openly what we see changing in those visions also allows that freedom to be nurtured, because if you can even feel safe, then that would be goals. Right to feel safe to talk about and just brainstorm and be open with each other about what we could look like moving forward or what could be represented or lived out in our relationship would be signs of yeah, freedom being nurtured.
Yeah, And that comment made me think about, like this, maybe another important question or conversation to add to your kind of early dating questionnaire, just this idea around is it okay for people to kind of have their own things going on that have nothing to do with their partner, You know, so if I want to do dancing or rock climbing or whatever, like, does every activity need to be a joint kind of venture or is it okay for both people to have interests that really have nothing
to do with the other person.
Yeah, And I think that's a beautiful description of what freedom in a relationship could look like. It's two people, two individual people coming together and choosing to share life together.
That choice of sharing a life together and partnering together in life does not mean that we are choosing to do every single activity in our waking moments together, right Like, I still have my own visions, my own dreams, and my own goals, and I still have my space in which I explore or expand, and I still come together
with you and sharing that life together. So again, like that concept of harmony, it could still be two different individuals working together beautifully and everything doesn't have to be in unison. And that's an excellent question as well, because a lot of people do think that whatever we do,
we need to do it together. And if you're one of the people that don't think that, like, that would be good for you to get out of the way from the beginning and be like, Okay, you know there's somebody for you, but that may not be me.
Yeah.
So what kinds of books or other resources do you want to share, doctor D for anybody who maybe wants to read up more about this, or maybe they're feeling like they're struggling with some of this and want to get more information, anything that you really love.
I like the book The Dance of Intimacy that's by Harriet Learner, and that is about you. It teaches you different ways and prompts you with a lot of questions to look inward in a way that influences your relationships. So I would highly recommend that book and then other just general books for things that you could do differently to make sure that you're showing up intentionally in your relationships.
Batman John Batman, The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, and Sue Johnson's hosting Type.
Perfect and where can people find you online?
Doctor D?
Your website, as well as any social media handles that you want to share.
Yes, I am on most active on Instagram. So that's at doctor spelled dr dot d v MFT so doctor D the MFT on Instagram. I'm also there the same handle on Facebook, YouTube, and my website is doctor dhd mft dot.
Com perfect And of course all of that information will be included in the show notes. Well, thank you so much for sharing with us, doctor D. I really really appreciate it.
Thank you. It was my pleasure to be here.
Once again. I'm so glad that doctor D was able to join me for this conversation. To learn more about her and the work she's doing. Be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session three ninety nine. And don't forget that if you have a question you'd like for me to answer on the podcast, send me a voice note at Memo dot fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and submitted your question just might be featured next. This episode was produced by
Alas Ellis and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care,