I'll start walking your way. You'll start walking mine. We'll meet in the middle, meet that old Georgia fine. They're really in the clinic. Welcome to Therapists in Motion podcast, brought to you by Spooner. Welcome back to Therapists in Motion podcast. This is Dan hosting once again, and I am joined on the podcast with another new individual and one individual returning for podcast number 2.
So let me first introduce my esteemed colleague and dear friend who is joining us on the podcast for the very first time, missus Jenna Salber. Hi, everyone. And joining us for the 2nd time, and I think back to back episodes, is Anthony Celio. Welcome back. Yes, sir. Thank you very much. Excited. So we have a really interesting and engaging topic today that is gonna be a little different than what we've ever done before. So today, we're actually gonna talk to our students.
And it's gonna be 2 part focused. The first is gonna be from our perspective as CI's CCCE's clinic director, what we believe a student can do as they enter into clinical rotation to stand out and impress the the staff during that rotation. Then we're gonna shift gears, and we're gonna come from the perspective of a student on what we think a student should be looking for as they enter the clinic to determine if this is some place in the future they would want to seek employment.
Sound like a good game plan? Sounds good. Alright. So first question, What are ways for a student to enhance during a clinical rotation that they would potentially receive a job offer?
Yeah. I think from my vantage point as a previous clinic director, you know, observing students, which it's important to really focus clinically on what you're doing right like that's why you're there you're there to learn but I feel like if you get tunneled vision and all you're really doing is focusing on the patients your own CI, you're missing a huge opportunity.
So myself as a clinic director, I would always look at various aspects of how are you how are you engaging with other staff members? Are you excited to learn more about the company? Are there opportunities outside of the clinic that you can engage with, learn, have social interactions with? Because for myself as a clinic director, when I thought about new grads, I was always big on will over skill that, you know, hopefully, you're gonna
come out competent. There's gonna be various aspects that you're gonna be successful at, but you're still gonna be a new grad. Right? So but if you have a a great personality, if you're engaging with the team, that's what's gonna excite me to bring you on.
I think also seeking out some of the extra things that Spooner offers, like mentorship opportunities within and without the or outside of the clinic, being able to participate in athlete screens, and then taking advantage of not just your CI skill base, but also the other therapists within your clinic. Asking them questions about cases that you and your CI might have, but other cases that they might have that are interesting as well.
So let's go off of that in in utilizing the resources within the clinic. Because during show prep, we talked about how there's a lot of students who will seek a clinical rotation because of they have this specialty practice. And that's not a bad thing, but there's still a lot to be learned from, going to an environment, a clinic that has a lot of different perspectives, varying treatment approaches, varying levels of
tenure within the profession. So, Jenna, in your opinion, talk about why and as a CCCE here at Spooner, what you look for when you see applications come through for students who are looking to do a clinical rotation, and they may make mention of a specific specialty practice?
If they make mention of a specific specialty, I will try to make sure that they're at a clinic that has that exposure available to them, but also doesn't only have that as their only exposure, to make sure that they're getting a good breadth of experience as opposed to just, I'm only wanna see this one type of thing.
And then making sure to encourage them if there are other areas that might interest them to reach out to their CI, the clinic director, myself, and we can help to organize those things for them while they're within the company. Yeah. I think, Jenna, like, you bring up a good point and, like, right now, obviously, with Spooner, we have an initiative of sports medicine. Right? And we get a lot of
students that are interested in that. And I think we would all agree to be a great sports medicine therapist, you still have to be a great journalist orthopedic
therapist as well. So a lot of times, I'll see students come in, and they'll get excited about be being paired with one of our sports med therapists, and they're losing opportunity of learning from some of the other tenured therapists that have great manual skills, have great other aspects to the repertoire because they get a little too focused and honed in on that specialty. So I think, like, that's something to make sure that you're
aware of. Well, and I think that's that's something really important for students to really understand is the vast majority of specialty practices out there still have a fundamental, especially if we talk about the outpatient setting, have a foundational approach in orthopedic PT. Jenna, you treat a lot of breast health, but there are still orthopedic related components as you treat these individuals who are going through breast cancer journeys in
various stages. They may still have glenohumeral joint mobility issues or cervical spine joint mobility issues that you are treating orthopedically in addition to helping them navigate the entire world and the complexity that is in with breast health. And I would argue too, if you wanna be a good sports med therapist, you need to be a fantastic orthopedic therapist and able to be a good sports med
therapist. If you don't have the foundational skills, I mean, you're not gonna get your patients better ultimately, which is most important to athletes. And for myself, like, you know, conducting interviews, I would say it's very difficult for myself sometimes to understand if someone can be a team player is if in the interview, they just said, like, I wanna be I wanna be a sports medicine therapist. I'm, like, what
other aspects excites you about physical therapy? And, like, oh, I just I want sports medicine. I'm, like, I need more from you if you're gonna be a part of this team that, you know, I need you to have that broad range of availability to treat what still walks through the door. So when it gets back to the question or or our purpose of how can you enhance your experience from our perspective, make sure that you're broader in what what you're thinking about. Did you just make up
a word? Yep. Broad of Broad. Ring broad. I'm from I'm from Louisiana, so I'm gonna make up some words here. Okay. So next question I have is you talked about how to help a student kinda pick their head up and take advantage of the opportunities that may exist within a clinic or within the company. So what are some suggestions that you have and very specific suggestions that you have to help them engage with more of the clinic and the company regardless of if they're in Spooner or not?
I think a couple specific examples I would have is, 1, make sure that you're not, quote, unquote, just clocking in and clocking out. So whether that's, you know, engaging, like, I'll observe students. Are they engaging with others over lunch? Like, how long after they finish for the day? Are they staying and engaging with other therapists? If there's opportunities outside of the clinic, you know, we spoke to our our athlete screens. We have student nights
that are you attending those? Because that's something that we almost view as almost a requirement, I would say, here at Spooner that we want you to engage with this, and it's gonna be very, very beneficial for you. So if I see a student not take advantage of that, it is gonna be something that's gonna make me question, are they a team player? Are they willing to truly do what's necessary to build themselves as a clinician?
And I think if you're not at a spooner, ask those questions of your CI, of your clinic director, like, what are your mentorship opportunities within the clinic and outside of the clinic? What do you guys do for team bonding? What do you do for, like, community events? Are those things that I can help out with? And the more that you show that you're willing to participate in those things, that makes you more marketable and hireable.
Yeah. I think that those are 2, you know, really good tangible suggestions because the vast majority of outpatient orthopedics are gonna have some sort of opportunity to do those things. It could be a pro bono clinic opportunity. It could be Saturday morning sports medicine clinic where you're there with other health care providers, and you're checking out athletes who got hurt at competitions on Thursday or Friday, and this is on a
Saturday morning. It could be, you know, traveling with not your CI, but another therapist who's going to cover an event, whether that's, you know, a health fair or a booth at a wellness opportunity within the community or participate and attend a a community lecture at a local senior center. Right? I think there's opportunities in the vast majority of clinical rotations to do more than just what is occurring with the 8 to 5 patient care aspect.
And I would say, you know, if you're not gonna be someone who's gonna be a yes person, so to speak, to all of these, Even just within your own clinic, asking more about the company culture, the company values, the initiatives. It seems easy, but to me, when I had a student approach me proactively and say, Anthony, I heard that you wanna your Spooner wants to be a primary MSK provider. What does that mean? How do you become that in Spooner as a therapist? You know?
So I think that can even go a long way, having some of those deeper conversations about what makes that specific company special and what they're trying to achieve. I think, also, kind of going a little different direction. If you're not going to something specifically academically related, like, still figuring out how you can be there for your caseload patients during your time, if that's attending a sporting event, if that's, you know, telling someone, hey, good
luck at your triathlon this weekend. Just making sure that you are engaged with the patients that you're seeing in the clinic. I think that's a great strategy because one of the things I was told by an early mentor of mine was the more you know about the patient, the more they're gonna realize you care. And going back to, Anthony, your point of being really present and engaging in all of the aspects, that's the place to start is what Jenna just mentioned is be present with the patient.
And those little small comments, one, go a long way with the patient. But if your CI is present, and that doesn't mean they're standing right next to you, but if they're present, they're gonna recognize those things and be like, that's something different. Now the other thing I will say about it is you gotta be genuine and authentic. Mhmm. Because if you're not, the vast majority of people are gonna see through that. K?
Right? And then and the 2 of Jenna and Anthony are both nodding their heads yes to that. So I feel like that that has to come across as
genuine. And, again, to Anthony's point, that doesn't mean you have to say yes to everything, but there's an opportunity to start to showcase who you are and why you are in this profession because it is a service oriented profession, and it can start with what seems as simple as good luck on your triathlon or showing up to a Friday night sporting event that can go a long way.
Okay. So before we transition to the perspective of a student going into a clinical rotation, my brain goes to we've talked about first impression. We've talked about seeking out additional opportunities. But what about when a student is presented with a difficult situation? What are the tips for that student when they are presented with a difficult situation? Let's give the example that the vast majority of students encounter. A patient doesn't want to work with you anymore.
What tips do we have to prepare them to manage that potential situation? I feel like from my vantage point, this first, you cannot take to heart as a student. Like, that's what I always speak to. It's like, don't take it personally. 99% of the time, you probably did nothing wrong.
It's only because there's gonna be individuals that because you have student physical therapists behind your name that they feel that there may be something lacking in the care even though as a CI, we explain that we've spoken through the plan of care with you, that we feel confident
in your abilities. And I think in that situation, you really just need to be able to to move on from it, speak with your CI, make sure that you're following up and discussing if there is any advice that can come from the patient as far as anything particularly maybe how you worded something. Maybe it was a little bit as far as your presence with them during the exercise or lack thereof and digest that, but it really is it's
gonna happen. I feel like with every student I ever had, there was gonna be that 1 to 2 patients, every clinical rotation that just for whatever reasons, like, they're a student. I'd rather work with you. So I think it's just you just can't take it to heart. I think to just be open to the feedback and make sure that you are taking it, learning from it, and utilizing that with your next patient. Don't take it personally. Just what can I do to get better in my next interaction? Yeah. I
I completely agree with that. I was adamantly nodding my head when Anthony said, try not to take it personally. I realized that's easier said than done, because it might be the first time in your life where you were, like, quote, unquote, not accepted, and that could be difficult to swallow. And Jenna and I went to PT school together, and I we were both reflecting back, and this is in no means a a shot at the institution that we
grad graduated from. But that wasn't a conversation that was had of let's talk about how to prepare yourself going on this clinical rotation. It was more, oh, I had talked to somebody that was at that site and had some insight versus really coming from the academia world of, hey. Let's talk about how to manage the ebbs and flows that may occur on your clinical rotation. And if you don't experience that, awesome. But if you do, again, don't take it personally. Take it as feedback.
Seek an opportunity to improve yourself because guess what? As licensed professionals, I'm sure you have the 2 of you has encountered this because I definitely have. Or even as a licensed professional, a patient looks at me and says, I don't wanna work with you anymore. It's just gonna happen in the world of
health care. No. I mean, I'm glad you mentioned that because I was even gonna say, like, to take it one step further as a therapist who's been out 10 years, even early on, there'll be moments as 3 to 4 years, and a patient would find out that there was a more senior therapist with 12 or 13 years and like I want to go work with them and it was literally because they associated the years of experience that they were gonna get better more quickly
because of that. So it even it even can happen in that situation as well. I think too it's important from a CI perspective. You can we know our we should know as therapists, know our patients well enough to know who might be a little bit more particular about working with a student, who might not. And I'm not gonna put my student in a situation to fail, so I will keep those patients where this is someone we're not gonna share versus we can share patient b just fine. It won't be an issue.
I think that's a great great point. And little blue light special, we are gonna do a podcast that talks about some expectations that we believe student CI should have of engaging with a student, and I I'm sure Jenna will bring that up again about ensuring that we are setting our students up for success and and giving you know, have giving students the opportunity to work with patients who will allow them to critically think, but also not have this just approach where they're like,
oh my gosh. I can't see. I'm working on this. Why am I doing this? What, like, what am I even doing? That's just not beneficial. Us as licensed professionals have those patients, and we can make the educated decision to say, you know, baby, this is not student appropriate. Alright. Any last thoughts before we change perspectives within this pod? No. Not that I can think of. I
don't think so, mate. Okay. Awesome. So now we're gonna flip it, and we're gonna go looking as a student walking into a clinical rotation. What would be suggestions or things we would encourage you all to be looking for and mindful of when you're entering a clinical rotation? Okay. So Anthony, let's start with you. Yes, and to take this a little different route once again, you know, we're speaking Beyond I think the clinical aspects here, right? We're
looking at culture. We're looking at fit say you're going into a clinic a company that you are really excited about that has a great reputation and you want to figure out is this somewhere that you'd potentially want to work?
What I always kind of say look at some small different little aspects of things and that can go into as specifically as how quickly then do the therapists leave when they're done for the day because in the teams that I've really enjoyed and had I would say like the funnest working with it's going to be we're hanging out 30 minutes after we're done because we're just chit chatting about things having a great day. So
what does that look like? I would say how do they handle stress because there's going to be stressful moments throughout the day multitudes of times. How do you see therapists interact with therapists?
How do you see therapists interact with texts in the front office and vice versa because that will tell you the culture of that clinic and how close they are and the dynamics of such and let's be quite frank, like do you want to work with a team that can handle those situations when they arise or a team that it's gonna be fractioned and nobody talks when there's stressful moments. I also think too, do you work in a silo as a therapist and a tech on your own, or do you work together
as your team? Are you constantly dialoguing about different patients? Am I talking to Anthony's patients or just my patients? What does that look the whole vibe of the clinic versus just me, my student, and my patients?
Yeah. I mean, I think that too, like, when I've walked into various clinics and there's moments where I'll joke with them where, you know, you walk in and it just kind of feels off and you and you'll see a therapist over on a table with someone someone out on the floor and there's not much engagement and it's like, but then once that occurs, that's fun. You're learning with each other. I always say it's like a big party, everybody getting better together when you're having therapists integrated
into the flow with patients. So that's a good point, Jenna. I think too, if you're seeing patients interacting with other patients, that's what, like, really builds the vibe. Because people are, like, having a good time. And it's not just my patients with my patients, it's my patients with my colleagues' patients. And everyone's just here to, you know, have a good time, but get better. Yeah. I think, you know, I'm trying to think back to when I was a student, which is a long time ago. But
Yeah. You're old. Yeah. Thanks. Hey. You're only 1 you're younger than me, so careful. Walking into a clinic, just even if you've walked into that clinic as a student and you're on your 5th week, try and walk in with a fresh approach. You know, on the the first day back on week 5, walk through and be like, okay, I really want to get a sense of what I what a patient experiences when they walk in here. What's the energy at the front desk?
Am I greeted when I walk through the front door by the front office staff? Am I greeted by the patients who are in there? Are they smiling? Are they sweating? Are they working hard? Or are they just kinda gone through the motions, and they're they look like they don't enjoy being there? Because if they don't enjoy being there, maybe the
staff doesn't enjoy being there. And so I think that's that that's something that I did a couple times on clinical rotations on my longer longer rotations was like, Man, I walk in the front door, and I'm greeted with a smile. And the professional staff is excited to see me.
That says a lot, not only as a student, but also when you become a licensed professional and these, you know, we are now your colleagues and vice versa, like, are you walking into a clinic where there is people are excited to see you. They're happy that you're at work. You're happy that you're at work. It's not like, crap. Right? It's it's that you can almost feel the energy positively or negatively right when you walk through the front door. And a lot of it
comes down to, are they smiling? What's the energy of the patients? No different than what Jenna mentioned of, do patients know patients? Does do I know Jenna's patients? Do I know Anthony's patients? Do they know my patients? Be really keenly aware of that as a student because it will tell you so much, not only about your CI in the clinic, but to potentially the entire company, whether they have one clinic or they have 625 clinics. Yeah. I mean, it should be like cheers.
Like, everybody knows your name. Right? You walk in and everybody's excited. And I would always tell students it's like joking to your point. Like, yeah, when my alarm goes off some mornings, do I wish that I didn't have to get out of bed? But the moment that I walk through that door, gosh, like, I'm so excited to be around my colleagues and with these patients just because we're having such a dynamic, you know, engaging environment with each other.
Another thing I would suggest that students look at, and it was kind of mentioned, but are there conversations that stimulate thought? Because one of the things I really look for in in students, even though I'm I'm talking from a from a student perspective, but is, are there conversations that make me or make my student clinically think?
Because if you're in an environment where they aren't asking thought provoking questions and they aren't stimulating professional advancement on a informal opportunity, meaning it's not a lunch hour dedicated to Anthony given an in service service or Jenna teaching us about, you know, a joint mobilization or an exercise or something along those lines. Like, it's an informal impromptu clinical discussion, that might be something that's like, wait.
Is that something that's really happening? Are they evidence informed practitioners? Are they thinking about why they're doing that, why they're going along that exercise progression, or why that manual therapy technique did not provide the desired result that they anticipated? So that's something else that I would in really encourage students to be keenly aware of.
And too, for your CI to not be too I don't know if proud is the right word, but to not humble enough to ask for advice of another therapist, not ask for help when they're unsure about something. I mean, I feel like that happens all the time in our clinic where someone double checks a special test, or, hey, what do you think of this end feel? Or how else can I progress their exercises? I'm in a rut here. All of those little things that happen throughout the day that make you
better, which then make your patients better. Yeah. I mean, a 100%. One of the things that, like, I would always, use as an example, 10 years out, and we have a therapist at Awataki, Eric Brown, shout out that
lateral shifts kick my butt. And it's like, I don't know what it is about them, but I just get a brain frog during the eval and then I'm like, how do I set up a plan of care for this and I go to Eric every single time, and it's like, you know, just because quote, unquote, the 10 years versus the 5 years, but that's something he's so
skilled at. And I think, like, the vulnerability, like, to your point, like, saying, you know, you wanna see our therapist not too proud to go ask for help that I would always use as an example as far as our personal, like, dynamic and culture at I was lucky as far as how we all operate together to make each other better. I'll add to that. Student, be keenly aware if your CI is asking you what have they taught you in school? What the what'd they teach you about the
literature related to a lateral shift? Are there any special tests that we can do? It's been a long time since I've been in that didactic world, And I honestly, shout out to my last ICE clinical student, Danielle. She did a phenomenal job when I asked her clinical based questions from her didactic program to be able to bring that information to me. So, student, be aware. Is your CI asking you to help educate them?
Because, again, I think it goes to the humility, and it also goes to the point that, you know, that you pass your board exam. You're our colleague. And so are they already starting to treat you as their colleague? Yeah. A 100% agree with that. Which is really hard to do sometimes, but, really, that's part of being an adult learner as a CI. And what's gonna help our profession get better is realizing things that Jenna and I were taught and Anthony were taught in PT school are now outdated.
It's been a hot minute since we've been in the the the academic world. And to be honest, we can't always read the most current literature, but students may be getting that and be able may be able to provide an article that was published in 2023 that I hadn't seen. And they're like, here. Here it is. This is why we should be doing it this way. Awesome. Another shout out to one of my students, Josh Davis. TriStar Strength and Rehab out in
the middle of nowhere in Tennessee. Yeah. It is really in the middle of nowhere. But he brought principles of strength training with my geriatric patients, and he wasn't afraid to put a 20, 30, 50, 80 pound load in their body because he knew what the literature stated. And now that's a regular part of my program. So if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't be doing it. Alright. So we're gonna kind of wrap up both components.
So the perspective of us as CI's clinic directors, CCCE, and perspective from a student going preparing to go to a clinical rotations. Anthony, give us your final thoughts first. Yeah. So I would say my final thought on the student perspective is when you're observing truly, do they believe in what they're doing, and do they believe in
each other? And it seems so simple, but if they have that high level engagement in each other, most likely it's gonna be an actual an excellent cultural group of individuals that are really looking to build something special. And I would say students, you're being see myself see myself being after I graduate? I think that's those are both really important components, both from both perspectives, from us as CIs of looking at the student of how well are we engaging with
each other. Are we doing this genuinely? Does it come across genuinely? Because our students gonna be paying attention to what we are doing and how we are interacting. And on the flip side, students, as if if I put my student hat on, I wanna be looking, is this some place I could see myself dedicating years to working there and serving this community and progressing our profession to showcase the unique skill set that us as physical therapists have.
Alright. Well, thank you, Jenna, for your first podcast. Thanks, Dan. And I know you don't love being on video, so thank goodness it's a podcast. Perfect. That's why I'm on a podcast. I have a face for podcasting. Anthony, thank you for number 2 podcast. We look forward to having you back for more. And as always, if you have any questions, comments, feedback, or topic suggestions, please do not hesitate to reach out to us at therapists in motion at spoonert.com, and thank you for listening.
Thank you for listening. Please hit subscribe on your favorite podcast app.