"Accurate" Yet Empty: The Problem with Theological Lectures

All right, so today's episode for sure is a little bit more in your face, as you can see in the title, but it's so important. Justin, I want to talk about preaching and really understanding scripture in general. uh expository preaching exegetical you know looking into the text and we want to help you understand that if your conclusion is not jesus then we're missing something and we have reasons for that argument

That actually come from Jesus and the apostles. So if your sermon is exegetically sound and historically sound and the conclusion is not Jesus, we're here to argue with you. there's something missing and therefore your sermon is actually empty. Stay tuned. Hey guys, this is Justin. Maybe you know that you are forgiven because of Jesus Christ, but you're wondering...

What does Jesus have to do with my Christian life? How is he involved in my sanctification even? Or is he concerned at all with the ways that I struggle and the way that my life goes up and down? Is there any comfort for me in Jesus when it comes to all of that? Well, I've written a book called More Than Forgiven, How Being in Christ Changes Everything, that deals with this topic from Romans 6. You can find this book. at theocast.org.

Welcome to Theocast, encouraging weary pilgrims, that's you, that's us, to rest in Christ. He is mighty and able to save. He loves us and he's for us. We're going to have a conversation today. about Christ, about the Christian life, about preaching, about all these kinds of things from a confessional, Reformed, and pastoral perspective. Your hosts today are John Moffitt, who is pastor of Grace Reformed Church.

in Spring Hill, Tennessee. And I'm Justin Perdue, pastor of Covenant Baptist Church in Asheville, North Carolina. We're going to try to get right to it today. So I'm going to be really quick with the announcements. If this podcast has been helpful to you or the videos have been helpful to you and you listen to us on a podcast platform or YouTube.

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We hope those resources are helpful. That was quick. That was like 90 seconds. John, I love our episode title today. I'm just going to say it because it's so fun. Accurate yet empty. The problem with theological lectures, and just go ahead and pull the curtain back here. That's what John and I are saying is true of many expository, expositional sermons. Accurate yet empty.

Accurate in quotes. They're kind of theological lectures or discourses on moral Christian living. What do we think about that? Go ahead, John. I think it's interesting. You know, I had a thought. You and I didn't even talk about this, but the sermons that you do read in the New Testament, in the book of Acts, how many times that the, let's see. Yeah, they all talk about Jesus. I thought that was interesting.

The thrust of all of them is what? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's Jesus. And you could make the argument... Let's not start quoting the apostles yet. We're going to go. Yeah, I know. You can make the argument that those are evangelistic sermons, but... We'll just move on from there. You know, Justin, I don't know where I saw it recently. It was an interesting dialogue about expository preaching. And you and I come within this vein, are thankful for it. I came from topical preaching.

expository preaching. I loved it. Was trained as an expository school. You've trained under expository preaching yourself. We've practiced it for over 20 years in our preaching in our local churches over 10 years. We're not against expository preaching. No, we are pro-expository preaching. Yeah. But what's interesting about it is that the word needs to be defined.

there's some expository preaching i would just flat reject if that's how you define it then i'm like no i completely disagree with that and i won't be an expositor then if that is the only definition that is acceptable you know or um right

It's kind of like the word sanctification, man. It's like some people define it and I'm like, nope, not for sanctification if that's how you're defining it. Or Calvinism is another one of those words. Like, well, if you define Calvinism like that, then I'm out. Let me just put it this way really quickly. What I am against, I know you're going to agree, is this, a theological lecture or a discourse on Christian living masquerading as a sermon. Yeah. That's the problem. Go ahead. Sure.

Yeah, well, and this is where obviously we're getting to preaching now. So if we're talking about teaching, lecturing, discipleship, all of that, that's different. In other words— There's a place for that, yeah. I disciple and teach different. Very different. So if I were sitting down and discipling a group of people, meaning that I'm teaching them the way of Christ, or if I'm actually teaching a class, that's going to look very, very different than when I am proclaiming.

Christ, right? Him we proclaim. So we're talking about the moment of preaching here. This is where we're going to focus our attention. So we just want to be clear in case some people are like, oh, you mean there's never a moment we should do that? No. And that's not what we're saying. So we're talking about the moment where the church gathers and the New Testament is talking about emphasizing Christ. Now, in my opinion.

I'm getting ready to say. In my opinion, if I'm discipling and if I'm teaching, I will still be emphasizing Jesus Christ. Yeah. Let me double down on that. I think that even when we're doing more lecture kind of stuff, teaching kind of stuff, discipling relationship stuff, one-on-one stuff, there is a real problem, in my opinion. Lecturing on theology. We're teaching doctrine, and we don't rightly connect it to Christ for sinners. I don't think I ever do that.

I mean, I certainly never set out to do that. I know you don't either, John. So even there, I think Christ should be clear. But we are talking specifically about the preaching moment. That's right. So we want to go through some... So Justin and I want to go through and really defend this from a theological position from Scripture and saying, hey, look, we're getting this from the text. So if you go back to last week's episode, which we did on In the Beginning Jesus.

You could go throughout the whole rest of the Old Testament. We only did two books. You could go out through the rest of the Old Testament and do what we did. We just wanted to give you two examples of two books, books we just preached. or I'm preaching and demonstrate how Christ is significant, not only in his Christophany or his actual presence being there in the text, like with Hagar or in the garden.

or if it's a picture of Christ or promise of Christ. And I'm preaching the Psalms this summer. I'm in the Psalms this summer. It's Jesus everywhere. Jesus is in every Psalm. He's the singer of the Psalms. It's beautiful. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. So a couple of passages we've referenced a lot.

And we'll use them as kind of a springboard. And just so you know, Justin and I do this on purpose. We just get excited about talking to things. We're like, here's the topic, let's go. So that's what we're doing. The Emmaus Road is probably the most powerful moment where Jesus... He's risen from the grave. Somehow he's masked. They don't really understand who he is. And he's asking them why they're...

discouraged, right? And it says that from beginning, so this is in Luke 24, beginning with Moses and all of the prophets. So Moses would be the first five books of the law, right? That's easy. So we already did that, Genesis and Exodus. He interpreted them in all the scriptures, the things concerning himself. Now, sometimes, Justin, when people hear this...

That phrase. They're like, oh, like where he's explicitly prophesied. It's like, no, I don't think that's what it meant. We went through and demonstrated. We couldn't even get through all of them in Genesis and Exodus in 30 minutes. So, no, I think he was explaining to them. I am the one who created. I am the one who was in the garden. I'm the one who prophesied that I was coming. I think what's interesting in this one, Justin, that people...

forget that as these men walking on the street heard Jesus describe this, they said, did our hearts not burn within us? When what? When he opened to us the scriptures. Yes. So to exposit the scriptures, if you're going to teach what the scriptures contain, you better open the minds of the people to see Jesus in them.

Because it moves us. Which the Spirit of God does. The Spirit of God does that. I'm not saying the preacher does that. The preacher is a conduit. He's a messenger. He's a broken vessel. But the Spirit of God uses the preaching of Christ to open the minds of the saints, to see Christ in all the Bible, and our hearts burn. you

Yes, yes. I mean, I'm writing a book right now on how to study the Bible, and I almost want to—it sounds so evangelical cheesy, but it's like, you know, the heart that burns within us. But the point of it is, as you read Scripture, it's not a practice in theology. you know, exegetical data. It's like, no, it is drawing the heart of the believer towards the heart of Christ, right? Like within us, it moves us. It causes us to see things in ways that are different. It's not just biblical data.

anti-doctrinal. I'm actually for doctrine because doctrine helps us have a stronger foundation on Jesus, not a smaller one. So I'm not here downgrading doctrine at all. And we defend sound doctrine on Theocast we do, in our churches we do, in our association we do. And sound doctrine, here's the thing though, sound doctrine is not an end unto itself.

Why does sound doctrine matter so much? Why is it valuable? Because it makes Jesus clear and plain and it heralds him. So sound doctrine should never be detached from Christ for sinners either. Yeah.

I want to comment on the word and sacrament reality in Luke 24, but I'm going to restrain myself other than to say this. You have that word component, did our hearts not burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the scriptures, and then just three verses later, how he was known to them in the breaking of the bread.

when they had a meal. So it's like the word and the sacraments. What are those about? It's about Christ. It's about Christ for sinners. And so if we're missing that, it ain't good. Staying in Luke 24. Just a few verses later when he's with the apostles together. He's got the disciples, I should say, together with him. He says to them, this is Luke 24, 44.

These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled. Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures. There that is again. So the opening of the mind to understand the scriptures there toward the end of Luke 24 is the same thing. Jesus is showing the disciples that the Old Testament, all of it, the law, the prophets, the Psalms, it's about him.

Lord willing, this episode will make it to you. I know it's only been a few seconds, but Justin and I are struggling with internet issues. So we're going to keep going. That's right. There's some kind of issues. All right. So.

After Luke, there is a second passage that I think is foundational to this conversation, and that is John chapter 5. There is the first and greatest commandment, John. And a second that is like unto it. There is Luke 24 and a second that's like it. Tell us about it. So John 5, Jesus is talking to the Pharisees and he's pretty upset with them. And he says, you search the scriptures because you think in them you have eternal life.

Now, I think it's interesting. He is saying that they're going through and they're interpreting Moses. In all the Old Testament. In all the Old Testament, right? And they're concluding that... in this particular situation is that obedience to the law, or they're basically not seeing salvation through Jesus. They're not seeing the Messiah. They weren't expecting him. So Jesus corrects them. So think about that for a moment. They read the Old Testament.

they're not seeing jesus he rebukes them and says it is they that bear witness about me yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life Then in verse 46 says, if you believed Moses, you would have believed me. And here's the gauntlet drop he wrote of me. He wrote of me. Right. Again, this goes back to our example of Genesis and Exodus, just as two examples we already talked about before. But this is a powerful section, and this is why I think this is powerful, Justin, is that...

When you have one particular passage that says something obscure, you're kind of like, oh, you know, I don't know. I'll give an example. The rich man and Lazarus. When Lazarus dies, it says the angels ushered him into paradise. Abraham's bosom, all that. Abraham's bosom, whatever. One passage that says that, you know, can we create a whole theology and tell everybody without doubt and confidence that the angels usher you when you die into the presence of the Lord? I don't know.

You know, I could go either way on that, but it's not paramount. You have two passages, which we have, I think, another 10 more about to get into. But two passages where some people say like, hey, what's a good commentary on the Old Testament? I'm like, well, we can start with Jesus. He literally says the whole thing is about him. And if you're not seeing him, then your commentary on the Old Testament is probably wrong.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but I'm just saying Jesus makes comments on the Old Testament twice and both says, you should conclude they're about me. We have an inspired commentary on the Old Testament called the New Testament. Yeah. And Jesus starts it off with what he says of himself in the gospels. And then the apostles add to it, amplify it, double down. We're going to pivot to the apostles in just a second. But John 5, bro, I know you agree, is...

an indictment on a lot of so-called expository preaching in our day. It's kind of the heart behind this episode that we're doing, where people in the name of exposition, in the name of doing expository sermons, they get mired in biblical data. They say a lot of...

quote-unquote, true things about the text, but they never actually get to the person and the work of Jesus in the scriptures. They never get to the Messiah. They never get to Christ for sinners. And if that's happening... I fear that we're falling into the same trap that Jesus is rebuking the Pharisees for.

We're doing what they did. We're going to the scriptures thinking that if we just quote unquote preach the Bible, that in the Bible we have eternal life. But Jesus is saying the life is found in one place. It's found in me. And so the scriptures are of value. Yes, they're God's.

revelation to man, but they're of value because they're a testimony about me. And so whether it's Moses or the prophets or the Psalms, you need to be seeing me there and you need to be coming to me there. So the first and greatest application of any sermon... If you're a Christian, the first and greatest application is come to Jesus in faith that you may have life. Rest in Him and trust in Him. Yes and amen. Amen. Amen. Yep.

Yeah. Okay. So we're going to go. We didn't really script this out, but we'll go through a couple other examples. I'm thinking first Corinthians. We've just been fighting with the internet. That's all we've been doing. That's right. People understand recording in two different states, it can be very complicated at times. 1 Corinthians 1, 22 and through 24, but just in summary, just for the sake of time.

Paul says, we preach Christ crucified, right? So what's interesting is that he's saying, when we preach, we are proclaiming Christ, a stumbling block to the Jews and followers to the Gentiles. But it is... It is a summary when he's talking about preaching. Now, at this point, he is writing the New Testament. He's part of the writers of the New Testament. Justin, that would mean if he is preaching Christ, where is he preaching him from?

The Old Testament, John. The Old Testament. That's right. Obviously, the witness of the word and what was given to him. So I'm not going to be foolish to say he's not. in reference to the New Testament as well. But we have multiple times from the Old Testament, which we're going to get in here in the book of Acts soon, that shows that they are always concluding Christ from the prophets, Christ from the law. But I think 1 Corinthians...

1 and 1 Corinthians 2, for I decided to know nothing among you except for Christ and him crucified, right? Those are two examples that I think where Paul is going to the churches and saying, if I'm going to preach to you from Scripture, I'm going to preach to you that which is of Christ. Yeah, 1 Corinthians 2, too, is fire. Because in the aftermath of this whole thing in 1 Corinthians 1, where the cross is folly...

The message of the cross is folly. It's a stumbling block. It's foolishness to the Gentiles. But we preach Christ crucified. He's going to say elsewhere in Colossians, him we proclaim. This is what we do. We preach Jesus. And then he goes so far as to say, then when he was... among them, he decided consciously as an apostle to know nothing else among you other than Jesus Christ and him crucified. That is the substance of his message, is Christ in the place.

of sinners. Let's go to the book of Acts really quick before we go to the rest of the New Testament epistles, because there are two sermons that I know that we want to riff on. We're already talking about the apostle Paul, so let's talk about his message in Antioch in Acts 13. What is he doing there?

He is connecting the entire Old Testament and what it speaks to, the Psalms and other places, particularly about the resurrection of Jesus. This is what Peter does too at Pentecost. I know we're going to talk about that. The resurrection of Christ. is brought out by the Apostle Paul to show them that Jesus came to accomplish redemption so that they might be set free, verses 38 and 39 of Acts 13, so that you might be freed from every transgression you committed under the law of Moses.

So under the old covenant arrangement, you are free from it. That's what Christ came to do. And that's his message. That's his sermon. And then Peter does a very similar thing. And I love how they connect the resurrection to redemption. It's glorious. Like the Messiah came, he did not see corruption like our father David did. So when David penned Psalm 16, that's ultimately the testimony of the Messiah. David is acting as a prophet.

testifying to the fact that the Messiah would come, he would live, he would die, he would rise again, and he does all that to accomplish the salvation of God's people, which has been God's forever plan that Jesus, alluding back to last week, Jesus himself proclaimed in the garden. Yeah.

Yeah. Amen. Yeah. I'll let you connect the next one in Acts. I'm going to jump over to Timothy, 2 Timothy 3.15, the sacred writings, which is able to make you wise for salvation through faith. In Jesus Christ. What sacred writings? What is he talking about? He's talking about the old.

Old Testament. Predominantly the Old Testament at that point in redemptive history, yes. That's right. Make you wise for salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, right? So he's not ignoring the Old Testament and saying these are the writings of the apostles and Paul, or what Paul's...

saying to Timothy, but no, Paul is saying these sacred writings, which comes from Christ. So again, we're showing you multiple times. It's not only Jesus, but also Paul is understanding that the Old Testament is supposed to be concluding to us in Corinthians. and in Timothy, that these are about Christ, right? So not only just once, but chapter one of Corinthians, chapter two of Corinthians, second Corinthians, for all the promises of God find their yes in what?

in Jesus Christ. So this is the third time in Corinthians. And then you jump over to Timothy, right? So you're having these, and I would even argue for Romans 10, 4, right? For Christ. Go ahead. No, go ahead. I'm going to spend a little time in Romans, but go. Yeah, for Christ is the end of the law of righteousness to everyone who believes. So the conclusion of the law, right, is to lead us to Jesus Christ.

Amen. If you're new to Theocast, you may not have heard of this word. It's called pietism. Have you ever felt like the Christian life is a heavy burden versus rest and joy? That you wake up worrying about how well you're going to perform? instead of thinking about what Christ has done for you. It's dread versus joy, really. That's Pietism. Pietism causes Christians to look in on themselves and find their hope, not in what Christ has done, but what they're doing.

And we have a little book for you. It's free. We want you to download it. And we're going to explain the difference between pietism and what we call confessionalism. Reformed theology, really, how it is that we walk by faith, seeing the joy of Christ. And when Jesus says, come to me.

and I will give you rest. What does that look like? You can download it at our website. Just go to theocost.org. The book of Romans is shot through with this stuff, the very beginning of the letter. I'm going to read a few verses, talk about it, and then we'll go to other places. Romans 1, 1 and following. Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures. So there's a connection.

So through the prophets and the Holy Scriptures, that's the Old Testament, the gospel is there. And the gospel, verse 3, concerns his son. who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the son of God in power according to the spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we've received grace and apostleship to bring about what the obedience of faith.

And he's going to use that phrase again at the very end of Romans, in Romans 16, 25, 26. You preach Christ. The mystery of Christ has been revealed. It was hidden for ages. It's now been revealed. We preach it to bring about the obedience of faith. So this is the whole point of preaching.

The whole point of expositing Scripture is to bring about the obedience of faith in Christ for salvation, who is the end of the law for righteousness, who died and was put forward as a propitiation to satisfy for sins in the place of sinners. Romans 1.15. Paul is talking to Christians, and he says, I'm eager to preach the gospel to you.

In Rome, that's powerful. And then I want to go to one other place in Romans that is near and dear to me and I know to you too. It's an oft-quoted verse, but sometimes it's quoted wrongly, John. Romans 10, 17. Sometimes people will say... Faith comes by hearing and hearing through the word of God. That is not what it says. That's right. It is faith comes by hearing and hearing through the word of Christ. And we don't do this often, but the Greek there is rhematos tu Christu.

So it's not logos word, it's rhema word. Well, what is the distinction? Rhema connotes a message. That's right. So faith comes from hearing, amen, and hearing through what? The message of Christ. So that's the key here to me, is that any faithful Christian sermon has to be preaching the message of Christ from all of the Bible, which has always been the plan. It's there. Jesus said it, and the apostles are...

absolutely clear that Jesus and the gospel is shot through the Old Testament. We have to preach it that way. have to that's right and i think just even understanding like even when he's when paul says him we proclaim right we proclaim christ we preach christ i don't think it means he's talking about jesus death baron resurrection i guess the only thing he's ever talking about

I think it does include that because that is what Christ is for us. But it is the person of Christ, his work, and all that encompasses who he is, right? His affection, his grace, his mercy, his everlasting kindness, all of this.

right of who god is for us in christ um and so when i'm thinking about being an expositor like my responsibility you know some people say you know when it says like preach the word in season and out of season reprove rebrook exhort and i'm like I don't disagree with any of that. This is true. But you can't then isolate that. from everything else that's been said. And I would say this is true of those who preach Jesus. You can't isolate Jesus from everything else that's in the text because...

Once you are in Christ and a follower of Christ and a disciple of Christ, then there is appropriate places for reproof, for rebuke and exhort. Why? Because we live in a world that is contrary. To the way of our King. For sure. Guess what? To be in Christ means we're going to live different. So don't hear a saying we're not preaching the commands in Scripture. We are, but always in light.

of Christ, not separated from him. All right. I want to give an illustration here of how the apostles connect, even for the people that would say, well, what Jesus said in Luke 24. if we're going to be biblicists and just kind of take it on its face, or like you've alluded to it already, that all Jesus meant is that his death, burial, and resurrection is somehow taught in the Old Testament, which I would say, again, I don't know that that's as clear.

In some regards, as all the types and shadows that we were talking about last week, in some regards. In Acts 17, Paul says. But listen to Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. Here's how he connects these things and then applies them and proclaims them to the Corinthian believers.

1 Corinthians 15, 3, for I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures. And then he talks about how he appeared to all of us.

But then where does he go immediately thereafter? He's contending for the resurrection of the dead, and he's saying if Christ has not been raised, like if the dead are not raised, Christ isn't raised. And if Christ is not raised, we are above all people to be pitied. But he makes this connection.

As in Adam all die, so in Christ all are made alive, right? And we're going to be raised in the Lord Jesus Christ, incorruptible and imperishable. And he says, just like we bore the image of the man of dust, Adam, we will bear the image of the man of heaven. Jesus. There's coming a day when we're going to be raised in Christ, and what has been written will be true. Death is swallowed up in victory. Oh, death, where is your victory? Oh, death, where is your sting?

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. That's remarkable, because we've been set free from the condemnation of the law because of our sin. But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. And this is why... My beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding. That's an exhortation. In the work of the Lord, be those things, knowing that in the Lord your labor isn't in vain. That's one example of how Paul connects.

the scriptures and what they bore witness to regarding the Christ. He connects it to the resurrection of Jesus, what's true of us in Christ, and then applies it to us and says, don't lose hope because this is what's true. That's how the scriptures work. That's how the apostles... Do this.

Can I riff on one other thing? Why don't you go, and then I want to riff on one other thing. This is a short one, but this is just, you know, Paul's arguing for Christ's death and resurrection from the Old Testament. This is Acts 17. It says, he reasoned with them. reasoned with them from the scriptures, explaining and proving that it was necessary for Christ to suffer and to rise. Amen. Yeah. Okay. Old Testament.

I don't think this is theological nerd pastor talk. I think this is applicable to everybody. I'm not going to talk a lot about hermeneutics, but you sometimes hear guys and gals, but I mean mainly dudes, preacher types, they'll come after guys like us, John. like the redemptive historical framework people, and they'll act like we don't care about grammar and syntax on the page. They'll pit against each other what's referred to as a grammatical historical hermeneutic.

grammar, history, versus a redemptive historical hermeneutic. And we've talked about this before. You shouldn't do that because redemptive historical... hermeneutics and grammatical historical hermeneutics go together. But here's what I wanted to say. There are a lot of people out there, a lot of preachers out there, particularly when they preach the Old Testament.

They get all geeked up about what they call original authorial intent. What did Moses mean? What did David mean? What did Jeremiah mean? Et cetera. As though we need to limit our preaching to what that man, yes, inspired of the Spirit. understood fully when he wrote it. You can't do that. There is one divine author of scripture, first of all, who inspired all of it. That's huge. It's almost like liberalism. It's like, let's come up with a very theologically...

plausible sounding or an intellectually plausible sounding argument to not preach Christ. Let's do that. That's not a good idea. That's what the devil would have us do, is to come up with theological and intellectual arguments that sound good. in order to justify not preaching Christ from the Old Testament. So what happens?

We look at the page, we talk about the history, we talk about the context, we talk about what would have been in the mind of Moses or what would have been in the mind of Jeremiah. And a lot of that, let's be honest, is conjecture.

In speculation, we don't know exhaustively. And then we are hesitant to go ahead and preach the gospel because, well, would David have understood that fully? Or would Moses have understood that fully? Or would Isaiah have understood that fully? Maybe we shouldn't go there. I would just say, dear brothers out there who are preachers, don't ever fall into that trap. Did Moses understand the gospel exhaustively? No. But did he understand it in truth? Yes, he did.

Did David understand the gospel exhaustively? No. Right. But did David understand this in truth? Yes. David was looking for the Messiah. So was Moses. So were all the prophets. And so we should preach Christ unashamedly and unapologetically, and don't do this thing where you say accurate stuff about history and grammar and syntax and the original author, and then never get to Jesus, who is the point of all of it.

Man. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It is a different way of thinking because I'll give an example. I was preaching. I don't think I used this last week. I was preaching Genesis as the very first sermon. um introducing the book to our congregants and i think probably a lot of people um

They were expecting us to go right into the creation scene. And I was like, no, we can't do that. If you don't understand why a letter and how it was written, then you're not going to understand its context and purpose. And at the end of the sermon, what I wanted to... with is that even before we start this book we need to understand how it is

preparing and cultivating our hearts like the ground for Christ to spring up in a well anew and become the firm foundation. Because I love the title of our last week's episode, In the Beginning Jesus. The whole book, if Jesus says, beginning with Moses and the prophets concerning myself, at the end of the day, we want to be finding the hope of Christ for us. And I think it's interesting that... You get to look at all areas of the universe.

as they relate to Jesus. I mean, it's beautiful. When I think about my marriage to my wife, I've been married for 22 years, I don't just think about our wedding day. I think about everything that encompasses, everything that's related to her, our history. my kids, the experiences that we have, the home that we have, the memories that we've made, two human beings, what does that look like? I mean, there's so much that's impacted in that relationship.

And this is true of Jesus. There's so much that we get to learn about him and his nature and how he functions and how he thinks and what he's done and how he treats other people. You know, Justin, like when your kids are interested...

My kids are at dating ages, so this is where my mind is. But when your kids are interested in a person, you want to watch how that other person interacts with people. How do they treat them? Because that's how they're going to probably treat my child, right? This is when God says, I love you.

It's not like, well, I have to use this definition of love to try and understand what he means. I get to hear and watch and see God's definition of love and faithfulness and kindness and power. He says, I love you. Now, let me explain to you what that looks like.

Jesus does this all the time, right? He says, he goes, what's the greatest example of love in the Bible? That a man lay down his life for his friend. Like that's the example of love, right? So when we get to go and read the Old Testament and we're looking to learn more about our Savior,

to the appropriate thing to do. We're learning about him in every context that the world could possibly present to us. And that's what makes the deepness and richness of Christ. So don't hear us kind of copping out and just saying, oh, we just want to like...

You know, not really deal with the text and not really care about what it says. Actually, I care deeply about what the text says. And I want to know exactly what Moses wrote and exactly what Moses meant. Because then if I do, according to Jesus. I will understand how it's connected to him. And there will be life in your sermon. Yeah. I want to do one more. We didn't do this one last week. This is going to be my final contribution to this episode. I think this is really cool.

as an example of what we're talking about today. So in the Garden of Eden, there are two trees that are predominant. They're both covenantal symbols. One is the tree of life. One is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The tree of life represents eternal life. It's very clear. And I'm going to get to how it's so clear here in a minute. At the end of Genesis 3, we're all familiar with Genesis 3, 1 to 19-ish, where...

Adam and Eve sin, and Jesus comes, and where are you? All that. Genesis 3.15, proclamation of the gospel, the curses are pronounced. But then at the end of Genesis 3, there's this interesting scene where Adam and Eve are expelled from the garden. God says, you're not going to have access to the tree of life anymore. And he puts a cherubim there to guard the way. To what? The tree of life. So what is that communicating? Well, in that original covenantal arrangement that God made with Adam...

Adam could earn life and mortality if he obeyed. He would plunge us all into death if he disobeyed, which he did. And so then he and Eve are thrown out of the garden. Angels are guarding the way to the tree of life. What does that mean? It means that human beings will no longer have access to the tree of life, i.e. eternal life, on their own merit, on their own steam anymore. How will we ever have eternal life then?

Well, only in Christ. He must carry us back to the tree of life. He must give us access to eat of the tree of life so that we might have life with God forever. Well, it's very interesting. That tree is in Genesis 2, tree of life. There are images of it in the prophets, like most iconically Ezekiel 47. But then where does the tree of life, that language verbatim show up again?

Revelation 22, the last chapter of the scriptures, where you have the river of God and the sanctuary and there's the tree of life with its 12 kinds of fruit that's there. Then later on, Revelation 22, 14. The words of Jesus. Blessed are those who wash their robes. So that's Revelation 7. Wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb, right? Blessed are those who wash their robes so that they might have the right to the tree of life, that they may enter the city.

by its gates. Jesus is the one who gives access to the tree of life again. So when you're preaching the tree of life and all the trees and the covenantal stuff in Genesis 2, it's not a Christian sermon. unless you preach that, that ultimately you'll have access again to this tree through Christ, through his merit, his blood, his righteousness. He's going to give you access to eat of this tree. You will live with him forever.

Bodily resurrected in a new heavens and new earth. Trust Christ. He's going to carry you the whole way. That's how we understand the scriptures. Did Moses understand that perfectly and exhaustively? No. But did Moses understand that redemption was in the Messiah alone? Yes, he did. To that point... 1 Peter, we'll throw one more apostle in here to this mix. 1 Peter 1.10, concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully.

inquiring what person or time the spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the suffering Christ and the subsequent glories, it was received to them that they were serving not themselves, but you. and the things that have now been announced to you through those who preach the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look. The prophets were looking for it, and the angels long to look into it. Let's preach it.

Let's go. I mean, seriously though, dude, like if you've got the spirits around going, what's happening? And you got the prophets going, he's coming. Hey, maybe we should preach that. Amen. All right. We hope you heard our heart.

And this isn't just coming across punchy. And we're thankful we got the episode in. We were in despair thinking this wasn't going to happen. And we've forgotten who did intro and topic and everything else. That's a little bit of a podcast shop talk. I'm going to take us out of here. John, any final comment?

Are you good? No, man. If you're a pastor, this is a lot of what... We have a lot of podcasts on preaching Christ in all of the Old Testament. But my encouragement to you, this is worth your time. Justin, I know this is true of you. What keeps me going in the midst of a really hard life and world and a pastorate is that my Savior...

is coming to me constantly in the Bible. And that keeps me refreshed and renewed in knowing that even in Genesis, that I will see my Savior. Amen, dude. So it keeps me going too. I cannot imagine being a preacher and not...

studying every week, praying and preparing every week, and then aiming to get in the pulpit every week and not preach Jesus this way. Because it's hopeless, man. I mean, there is no hope without him. And it's all we as preachers have to offer. I've got nothing to give my people other than Christ for them.

and Christ for me. So yeah, I hope this is encouragement, not just to the preacher types out there, but to every believer who's listening to this podcast. And maybe you've not yet trusted Christ and a friend referred you to this. He is the only savior of mankind. He died for our sins. He fulfilled the law, kept all righteousness to be our righteousness. And in him, we're forgiven, absolved, and promised eternal life. So that's why we do it.

Until next time, unless he returns, right? I mean, we'll talk to you again soon. Peace. Amen. Hey guys, real quick. Some of you are listening to this and it's encouraging to you, but you have questions. So where do you go? How do you interact with other people who have the same questions? our resources. We have started something called the Theocast community, and we're excited because not only is it a place for you to connect,

with other like-minded believers. All of our resources there, past podcasts, education materials, articles, all of it's there, and you can share it and ask questions. You can go check it out. The link is in the description below.