[00:00:00] Mahea (Promo): If you're like me, listening to Themes and Variation makes you want to work on some music of your own. I've got some good news on that front. The Soundfly team's been hard at work creating a massive collection of resources to satiate your curiosity and help you up your skills in areas like composition, production, and improvisation.
[00:00:19] Using the discount code PODCAST, you can get access to the full range of premium courses available at soundfly.com and an invitation to our online community for less than $10 a month.
[00:00:31] Also, be sure to stop by Soundfly's YouTube channel, where we're constantly adding new videos addressing questions like, "what is a pedal tone?" and "do dogs understand music?" Plus, some of those videos directly relate to things we've discussed on this show, so if you like what you hear here, you should definitely check out what we have to offer there.
[00:00:50] Soundfly, creative content for people who make music.
[00:00:57] Carter: An epic dance hit that played a pivotal role in one man's journey to becoming the composer and producer he is today. A song that made a lyricist ponder the complexities and cynicism of human relationships. And a punk rock single that encapsulated the energy, angst, and spirit of a Canadian bassist's teenage years.
[00:01:18] You're listening to Themes and Variation.
[00:01:32] Themes and Variation is a podcast about music and perspectives brought to you by the online music school, Soundfly. I'm your host, Carter Lee.
[00:01:43] You should know that what you're about to hear was actually recorded as a demo. Here at Soundfly, we've thought about doing a podcast for several years. We just never quite found the right angle or something that we could really get excited about doing until very recently my co worker Mahea Lee, who you'll hear on this episode, had the idea, you know, why don't we have a theme for every episode? We could form some incredible panels using other Soundfly team members or some awesome guests, ask everybody to pick a song that relates to the theme, do a little research on that song and then bring all that in for a little show and tell for each other and our listeners.
[00:02:22] So the theme for this, our very first episode, I think, is very appropriate in that it's "Songs From the First Record I Ever Bought."
[00:02:29] So that's purchased with your own money. It's not records that you just happen to own. I think for me, that would be a lot different... I remember really loving Huey Lewis and the News for some reason, when I was five. And I think my parents gifted me one of his records as a joke. Oh boy.
[00:02:47] But anyways, I've got some great guests joining me for this first episode, incredible writer, producer, fellow Soundfly team member, Martin Fowler, and incredible songwriter and our VP of Curriculum here at Soundfly, Mahea Lee.
[00:03:03] We get into all kinds of stuff, like Marty may or may not have been been involved in a pyramid scheme at age of like 12, and Mahea was a lot older than I anticipated anybody being when they purchased their first record. Let's just leave that at that.
[00:03:21] So again, with this being our first episode, if you're listening to it on Apple Podcasts, please subscribe there or Spotify or Stitcher, wherever you get your podcasts, please leave us a rating, maybe share with your friends if you like it.
[00:03:32] We're really trying to grow something very special, very organically. We hope to bring a lot of these episodes to you in the future. If you have any comments or questions or themes that you might want to see in future episodes, you can drop us a line at [email protected].
[00:03:47] And so without further ado, let's get into our first theme ever, "Songs From the First Album I Ever Bought."
[00:03:55] I'm curious just in terms of like your guys spending habits and... at your age, how old were you when you bought your first record and it wasn't a gift or your parents didn't buy it for you?
[00:04:05] Martin: So I remember this very vividly. I have a great story about this, which is why I want to answer this question. I don't remember what it was in, but somehow I got my hands on one of these BMG catalogs where you could buy like 10 CDs for a dollar... made zero sense at all.
[00:04:23] Carter: Wasn't it like the record of the month club or something like that? I remember that. Yeah.
[00:04:27] Martin: I don't.... I still don't understand the economics. I don't understand how it made any sense for them to offer this at all. I'm sure I was part of a pyramid scheme at age 12 when I found this thing. But I did it, and I think I was 11 or 12 when I bought this first CD as a part of this collection of CDs. Man, that was a good dollar I spent.
[00:04:52] Carter: You didn't have to... I thought you had to use a credit card with those and that was the point of it where you were just like... the dollar wasn't the purpose. The purpose was like you become a member and then like the next thing that you buy was a lot more money.
[00:05:05] Mahea: Yeah, that sounds right.
[00:05:06] Carter: So maybe Marty beat the scam or something or your parents like really took a dive on this thing that you set up for them.
[00:05:14] Martin: I don't know. I think, yeah, the scheme is probably like, uh, if somebody buys one CD, the statistics show they're much more likely to buy three full price CDs, and so it's all a wash. Like, it will end up making money in the long run. Like, I'm sure it was something like that. You know, the music business when I was 12 years old was, uh, was a, was a dicey, dicier place than it is even today.
[00:05:37] Mahea: These CDs came out presumably around a time when lime wire and things like that were a thing, right?
[00:05:42] Martin: Not yet. Just before.
[00:05:44] Carter: Dude, when did you guys think the first CD came out? Because this..
[00:05:47] Mahea: The first CD?
[00:05:48] Carter: Yeah, the first CD.
[00:05:50] Mahea: Nineteen...
[00:05:54] Martin: I should know this.
[00:05:54] Mahea: ...ninety... one?
[00:05:56] Carter: No.
[00:05:57] Mahea: Eighty seven.
[00:05:58] Martin: I think it was '81.
[00:06:01] Carter: It was, yeah, it was '82. I don't, I, I should have written this down, but I remember like, because I thought the mid nineties was when they first came out, was when the first CD came out.
[00:06:10] Um, but no, yeah, 1982. That was actually recorded in 1979. I think it was like a, it was an orchestra, I think in Germany. Dude, the Dire Straits, I think it was 85, sold over a million copies of a CD.
[00:06:23] Mahea: Who was buying them?
[00:06:24] Carter: Exactly. I didn't think these existed. Because my first album was actually a cassette. Um, I'll get into that when I talk about my track, but, um, we had CDs in Canada at the time, I know, because you had the option. And dude, albums were crazy expensive then. They just were.
[00:06:40] Mahea: Like 20 bucks, yeah.
[00:06:41] Carter: CDs, they were on average 17 in the States. Like seriously, it was a lot of money and no that blew my mind that that CD's really kind of started it's like 15 years before I thought they did.
[00:06:55] Mahea: Yeah, that's a pretty fun fact.
[00:06:56] Carter: It is a fun fact. Maybe we should listen to a track. Marty, are you ready? Do you want me to go? You know...
[00:07:03] Martin: I'm ready man.
[00:07:06] Carter: Marty why don't you take us away then?
[00:07:13] [track]: (music)
[00:07:16] Martin: All right. Do we know it?
[00:07:22] Mahea: It sounds so familiar... Ah! There it is.
[00:07:29] Carter: This song's amazing, but I thought it was far more recent than your first record. Marty, what, what are we listening to? Why don't you tell everybody that maybe doesn't know?
[00:07:44] Martin: So this is the, uh, inimitable, uh, Daft Punk's, not their first record, but kind of their breakout record called Discovery, from 2001.
[00:07:54] I think I bought this record the year it came out, which was crazy. I don't remember why I knew that this record existed. It was probably one of the front page cover images on the BMG catalog and I was like, "That's a cool record cover. Why don't I see what that sounds like?" And I put it on and like, this, this craziness...
[00:08:14] [track]: [music]
[00:08:18] Martin: I had never heard anything in my life that sounded like that before, you know?
[00:08:22] Mahea: What were you listening to up to that point?
[00:08:24] Martin: So, 2001 was the year I started playing music, also... No, so actually I was 14, actually. I thought I was younger than that, but I was 14 in 2001. And I had, I had just been listening to what friends around me thought was cool, which was a lot of like... I don't know, I grew up in Marin County outside of San Francisco in a, which is a very like hippy dippy kind of place, so like psychedelic rock and prog rock and, and like some hip hop happening in the periphery, but like the high school I went to was 97 percent white. I was not exposed to a lot of hip hop until a lot later, so this was a little mind boggling for, for my brain, which was only, you know, accustomed to thinking of music as being, like, a thing that three or four or five people did by getting into a garage and playing instruments together... which I did at around this time, as well.
[00:09:22] Um, so as soon as I heard this, I was like, "the whole world is a lie. Like, everything I knew in life is a lie." I would say this record was, like, one of the more pivotal things that ever happened to me. I mean, I'm still trying to make music that sounds like this.
[00:09:37] Carter: Do you know... is that Nathan East playing bass on that track?
[00:09:39] Martin: Ooh. That is a... that is a deep bit of trivia that I should know and I don't. This, this era of Daft Punk is all, is all sample bass. Almost primarily. So as opposed to the later stuff where they were like, let's do, let's do that sample thing but have everybody come in and play it like, like the last couple just smash records that they had where they had a whole actual live instrumentation come in.
[00:10:04] No, this was more like, let's sample the old disco shit from the late '70s early '80s, get that sound going and then manipulate it. Put, you know, TR 909 from Roland, that, that kind of drum sound all over it. That, that was kind of their thing. Um, and just make, just, just dance, dance bangers, basically.
[00:10:23] But this record was really poignant for me because it also showed me the ways in which electronic music in particular didn't have to be just that. It could also be really somber. It could be really emotive in, in all these different ways. And the more I, the more I'm talking about it, the more I'm like, this is sort of the... The, the spark, the quintessential record of electronic music in a lot of ways.
[00:10:46] Carter: You said... so you were also making music with people kind of getting in garages and playing. Was this the kind of stuff you were trying to make with your friends or like..?
[00:10:55] Martin: Absolutely not. I started playing bass that year. Joined a rock band that was mostly doing covers of Metallica and ACDC and that kind of stuff. Not cool shit like this. Maybe Red Hot Chili Peppers.
[00:11:12] So, the thing that stuck out to me, um, and another thing that has really characterized my sense of what music I love in the world is... this is a straight Lydian jam. This is just Lydian for five and a half minutes.
[00:11:31] [track]: (music)
[00:11:35] Martin: Yeah. That's the leading tone, one. That's, that's the one I hear, but the bass line gives away what the harmony is. Which is dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, four, four, four, four, one, five. And then eventually it goes down to three, dum, bah, bah. But it just sits on that four chord for like 80 percent of the song. And this is the opener of the record, mind you.
[00:12:04] So I was 14, just barely knowing what anything about music was, put on this record, this jam comes on and I'm like, "this is, this is the only thing I want to do. This is, this is it. This is the only thing. This defines everything else about what I want to do."
[00:12:20] Carter: What's different about your experience listening to this track now than when you first discovered it?
[00:12:26] Martin: Well, there's a few things. Um, it's hard to, it's hard to put myself back in that sort of... that, that first listen chair again, such simpler times for so many reasons. But one, one thing that sticks out is that this, this particular track is, it's just like a, a global mega hit at this point. It's, it's a, it's a cultural trope at this.
[00:12:49] When I hear it, I'm like, I can't really hear it anymore. It's like when you learn an idiom or something where it's like, you don't really hear the individual letters and the words within that phrase or idiom. It's just something that people say like, um, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." That's just a thing, and you're like, you have your fixation of what that is. It's hard to change your understanding of it. And I've heard this song so many times, like, maybe thousands of times at this point, which is a really crazy thing to think about.
[00:13:21] Carter: I think you knocked it out of the park, dude. Um, that's an awesome song. And in a... I think not... welll, you guys can tell me if this is embarrassing, but why don't we listen to my song?
[00:13:32] [track]: (music)
[00:13:39] Martin: Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[00:13:59] Carter: Just listening to that, I am fired up to talk about this tune, which is of course, "Brain Stew" from Green Day. So here's... like, I went on a, on a... just a, a journey of self discovery trying to figure out what was my first record. Like, I think for all of us, it probably was a little bit tricky, not, not first record that you listened to or love, but first record that you actually bought with your own money.
[00:14:34] Um, I was listening to a ton of Green Day. This is the mid '90s. Uh, this, this album, Insomniac, came out in 1995. Right before it was Dookie from '94. I had Dookie on CD and I had Insomniac on cassette because I listened to this all the time. I listened to it with my dad in his car, I'd listen to it... I had a little Walkman... All the time I wore this thing out.
[00:14:57] And the way tape's obviously like... you'd have to just play it wherever you were in the album, which was kind of awesome. Like I would have to listen to the whole record over and over and over.
[00:15:08] Um, you could have told me that this record was over an hour long. It's 33 minutes.
[00:15:13] Mahea: Really? How many tracks is it?
[00:15:16] Carter: Like 14 or 15. It's a lot. And yeah. And this is also the age of like... remember hidden tracks on albums? Like Dookie had one, which was incredible. Um, I can't remember if Insomniac actually had a hidden track.
[00:15:32] Um, but no, this like... "Brain Stew," man, that guitar... first note, you know what song it is, or you know that you've heard it.
[00:15:40] Martin: First note, I was terrified because I didn't know what, what the fuck was happening in my ear. Second note, I was like, Oh, I know what this is.
[00:15:47] Carter: Just the most cutting guitar tone. It's just like, so just like... it just hammers you. Uh, and then of course the bass comes in. You got Mike Dirnt playing his, his P bass.
[00:16:00] I don't think Mike Dirnt is his real name, but if you're going to choose a stage name, "Dirnt" is pretty awesome. You're going to go with "Dirnt." Um, and Tré Cool, which is definitely not his real name, which I think it's Francis something the third. I did look that up, but it escapes me what his real name is, but Tré Cool.
[00:16:18] Um, all three of them getting writer's credit on this tune, which is nice to see — a band like that, just sharing the wealth around a little bit.
[00:16:26] It is part of like a another song, "Jaded." Do you guys remember "Jaded?" It would go right into... so it was together...
[00:16:32] [track]: (music)
[00:16:39] Carter: One thing that I was really curious about was how I discovered music. Dude, that like... now obviously we just share music. I have no idea how I would've discovered this.
[00:16:48] So the record came out in October of '95. I didn't get it the day it came out. I wasn't reading BMG Monthly Magazine like Marty or whatever it was.
[00:16:58] Mahea: Did you watch Much Music?
[00:16:59] Carter: I, I, yes. So that would have... I devoured Much Music. Every...
[00:17:04] Martin: Canadian MTV?
[00:17:06] Mahea: Yeah.
[00:17:06] Carter: Exactly. Um, and it was incredible. Well, maybe, maybe I have to get some clips in here. I'm sure Ed the Sock... Uh, interviewed these guys. He's a literal, like.. He was a sock hand puppet and hilarious. He had a little cigar in his mouth. It was awesome.
[00:17:21] [clip]: [audio clip]
[00:17:25] Carter: Probably what happened was, somebody's older brother had it and, uh...
[00:17:30] Mahea: Throw us a name. Whose older brother was it?
[00:17:32] Carter: Uh, Pat Wilson or Mark Coley's older brother probably had it. If the guitar was cutting like this, because I wanted to play guitar, that was it. I'm in. So "Brain Stew," I was super hooked.
[00:17:43] I will touch on the lyrics from "Brain Stew" really quick. So, um, I, until recently, as in this morning, didn't know what that... you know, that "no rest for crosstops in my mind." I had no idea what word he was singing instead of "crosstops." And it was one of those things that, I'm sure we all have these songs... as a kid, when that line would come up, I'd be like, "no rest for blah blah in my mind," like...
[00:18:08] Mahea: What do you think you thought it was?
[00:18:09] Carter: I had no idea.
[00:18:09] Mahea: What did you think it was yesterday?
[00:18:11] Carter: Like "cross crocs." Well, do you know what a cross top is?
[00:18:15] Mahea: No.
[00:18:15] Carter: So a cross top is a small tablet of amphetamine.
[00:18:18] Martin: Oh.
[00:18:20] Mahea: That makes sense.
[00:18:21] Carter: So this song is, is of course not about amphetamines, uh, so much as it's about having insomnia. Um, but yeah, "Brain Stew," uh, and I do have a little something from Rolling Stone magazine, a little publication you may have heard of, uh, this is from Billie Joe himself. Uh, "'Brain Stew,' Armstrong explains, 'is the nickname of James Washburn, a long time friend of the band. He used to have a big mohawk and now he's a total ratchet head.'"
[00:18:47] Do you guys know what a ratchet head is?
[00:18:49] Martin: Tell us, Carter.
[00:18:50] Carter: It's, uh, it's California slang for a car buff. I've never heard anybody...
[00:18:55] Mahea: Marty, we're from different parts of California. Has that come up for you?
[00:18:59] Martin: Uh, these, these guys are from very close to where I grew up. I, I grew up in Marin County, which is, uh, not a place where, um, you find a lot of ratchet heads. Uh, apparently.
[00:19:12] Carter: And, uh, just to, to one more, um, note on "Brain Stew," a friend of the band, James Washburn, uh, Billie Joe says, "he'll say something like, 'Oh man, that guy fucking slipped a gear' when someone snaps. He's a big lyrical influence on me."
[00:19:29] So yeah, that's, that's where "Brain Stew" came from. It's of course about insomnia.
[00:19:35] I watched the video today too, actually just to get in the right headspace. It is pure '90s vibe. It is uh, sepia tone throughout the entire video. There's like those weird close up angles of people, people's faces, you know, just like a real like off center and just like, it is, it is very cool.
[00:19:56] There's a extreme closeup of a horse. I thought it was a dog when I first saw it. The closeup was so extreme, but it's a horse and that takes you into "Jaded." So it gets even more frantic and then (singing)...
[00:20:08] Anyways, I do want to touch on the harmony of this tune, even though there's not a lot to it. Dealing with power chords, um, obviously you'd think like, okay, those... there's no third involved, but, um, uh, Billie Joe does sing the major third.
[00:20:22] So we're very much in the key of A flat major. You have your one chord, then to the flat seven, some hip modal borrowing. Um, then we're onto the six minor chord, the flat six, more modal borrowing. And then the V chord. Um, but, uh, yeah, when he sings the third, I might try and sing this real quick. Let's see.
[00:20:41] Um. "I'm having trouble," "have," so there's your major third. Nailed it. And, uh, that just outlines the, the harmony of the tune. It is very similar to the progression from, you guys know, Chicago's 25 or 6 to 4, except that's in A minor. So it's a half step up and it's also in minor. Um...
[00:21:02] Martin: I love that using the major one with the minor descending chord progression.
[00:21:08] That's a great... that's a great technique right there. Especially, especially when you got power chords, so you can be ambiguous with it if you want to.
[00:21:21] Carter (Promo): Hey Carter, it's me, Carter. Sorry to interrupt, but I want to let our listeners know if they thought the last couple minutes were particularly interesting, or if they found them kind of confusing, they should check out Soundfly's premium course, Unlocking the Emotional Power of Chords. Unlocking the Emotional Power tackles sophisticated harmonic concepts in a unique and practical way.
[00:21:44] Through engaging videos, detailed explanations, strategic exercises, and carefully designed projects, you can learn about topics like chord scales, voice leading, and functional harmony. More importantly, you'll have the opportunity to put that knowledge into immediate practice. Whether you decide to go through things on your own using Soundfly's content subscription, or sign up to work with your very own mentor during a highly personalized and intensive session, you'll be encouraged to put your skills to work. even while you're honing them.
[00:22:16] And hey, if harmonic theory is not your thing, that's okay. We have lots of other courses as well as a whole team of expert mentors covering a massive variety of topics. Everything from vocal production to arranging for strings to DIY touring and much, much more. And as a thank you to our listeners, Soundfly is offering 20 percent off any monthly or annual subscription to our incredible course content.
[00:22:41] Just enter the. Take a big step toward reaching your musical goals by visiting soundfly. com today. All right, Carter, back to you and the team.
[00:22:59] Martin: No, I have a, I have a theory about this as well as it, it, it has to do with the distorted overtones of electric guitar as well.
[00:23:11] Carter: Yeah.
[00:23:11] Martin: The way that the, uh, the, the, the overtones stack to, to, to, um, to blend on what's called, uh, "Third Order Harmonic Distortion."
[00:23:22] Carter: Which actually is exactly what, uh, Billie and Mike Durnt were thinking.
[00:23:25] Martin: Definitely the thing that they think about, you know.
[00:23:28] Carter: They're huge overtone series guys, for sure. They were, they were really into it. But maybe they are, I don't...
[00:23:33] Martin: They just don't, they just don't necessarily know it, you know. You plug into a, a, a tube amp that's cranked up to 11, and you hear this sound, and it's just this warm, just abrasive... Sound that just like punches you in the gut and you just you just want to get beat up, you know what I mean? And that is the sound of of tube distortion.
[00:23:56] And power chords overemphasize those... that harmonic stacking in a way that is especially overemphasized by tube distortion and that's what makes them so powerful in this style, rock in general, but punk especially.
[00:24:12] Mahea: Huh.
[00:24:13] [track]: [music]
[00:24:14] Carter: Alright, so I'm gonna get these fast facts out that I've been trying to shoehorn in here real quick so the record, Insomniac, was released October 10th, 1995. It hit number one on one chart, the Canada Rock Alternative Charts from Records Promotion Music Magazine. It also... so on the Billboard chart, it reached number three on Alternative Songs, number eight on Mainstream Rock, and number thirty five on Radio Songs.
[00:24:41] Still definitely a hit, but if it was up to me, it would be just number one for a very long time.
[00:24:47] Martin: Well, it sounds like you made it number one in Canada.
[00:24:51] Carter: I might have had something to do with that, actually.
[00:24:59] [track]: [music]
[00:25:12] Mahea: So before, before we get into the song I picked, I want to tell you guys which songs didn't make the cut.
[00:25:19] Carter: Yeah.
[00:25:20] Mahea: So, "Baby One More Time" by Britney Spears, did not buy that album for myself.
[00:25:26] Carter: Who'd you buy it for?
[00:25:27] Mahea: For no one. It was purchased for me. Maybe that's where I should start. The thing about being difficult to shop for and having started playing music at a really young age is people just kind of buy you music as a gift, things they think you should like... which colored my taste in music.
[00:25:45] I honestly couldn't remember ever purchasing music with my own money until I was an adult. Um, yeah, which is just, it's shameful, but you know, people buy you albums, you listen to whatever your parents have, and my parents have pretty decent taste in music.
[00:26:03] Carter: Yep.
[00:26:04] Mahea: But yeah, so, you know, for the most part, decent music was always around in the house, and if I had time to listen to stuff on my own, it was something my piano teacher made me listen to or whatever, um, and then when I hit that age where you're insecure and let your friends influence your taste, I listened to what they listened to, which is why things like Baby One More Time and Avril Lavigne's Let Go were considerations for this that didn't quite make the cut.
[00:26:28] Um, On and On by Jack Johnson also didn't make the cut. Um, Jodie Benson Sings Songs From the Beginner's Bible, which was purchased for me, I believe, by my grandmother, did not make the cut.
[00:26:40] Martin: That's a deep cut.
[00:26:40] Mahea: She was the voice of the Little Mermaid.
[00:26:42] Carter: I can't say I have heard that.
[00:26:42] Mahea: Yeah, no.
[00:26:43] Martin: Alright.
[00:26:44] Mahea: The October Sky soundtrack did not make the cut, which has like some Buddy Holly and Fats Domino, so I was kind of hoping that I was misremembering there.
[00:26:53] But um, yeah, Anarchy in the UK didn't make the cut, and neither did Jennifer Love Hewitt's self titled album, which I do own.
[00:27:01] Carter: She did a record?
[00:27:02] Mahea: She did. Yeah.
[00:27:09] [track]: [music]
[00:27:10] Mahea: In the end, my most concrete memory of spending my own money on an album is connected to this song...
[00:27:47] [track]: [music]
[00:27:54] Martin: this chorus... I remember this song...
[00:28:05] Carter: The release is... did this come out in 2009?
[00:28:08] Mahea: This came out in 2008.
[00:28:10] Carter: That's like... I had already done two years of college and then was going into this.... it's the first record you bought?
[00:28:16] Mahea: It's the first... it's not the first record I acquired.
[00:28:19] Carter: No, no, but you bought.
[00:28:21] Mahea: Um, I bought it at a record store in Japan.
[00:28:24] Carter: Hey, that's cool. Also, the first record you bought wasn't, not only not in your hometown, it was in another country.
[00:28:34] Mahea: And not only that, but I went in there intending to buy Japanese music, um, for the cultural experience, and instead I got this album where Ben Folds...
[00:28:43] Martin: That was probably... this album that was probably made like within an hour of where you grew up and you bought it in Japan.
[00:28:51] Mahea: Yeah, I know, but here's the thing. Here's the thing... let's get into the song. So, so Marty, you said you do remember this song. Carter?
[00:28:58] Carter: I remember it. Yeah.
[00:28:59] Mahea: Thoughts on it overall?
[00:29:00] Carter: 'Cause it's pretty recent.
[00:29:02] Martin: I have, I definitely went through a Ben Folds phase well before this record came out.
[00:29:08] Mahea: I was wondering.
[00:29:10] Carter: I was first hip to him with the covers that he did of like, rap tunes and was like this is amazing.
[00:29:16] Mahea: Yeah.
[00:29:17] Martin: Wow. Wait, I don't even know about those. Oh my god.
[00:29:22] Mahea: Do you guys know about the fake tracks he leaked himself?
[00:29:25] Martin: No.
[00:29:27] Mahea: So shortly before this album came out, he just wanted to do something fun. So I guess they got eight hours of studio time and did six facetious versions of tracks and leaked them on the internet, but some of them are pretty great and worth checking out.
[00:29:46] [track]: [music]
[00:29:47] Mahea: This song is called "You Don't Know Me." It features Regina Spektor who you know... also incredible incredible pianist vocalist, etc.
[00:30:02] So I, I asked myself some questions as I did my research, and one of them was just what, "what's one of the first things that stands out to me about the song?" And I love male female vocals because you get that octave difference that is just such an interesting, rich sound.
[00:30:20] Carter: As far as first impressions, it was, I mean... I'm, I'm glad it was a video, but once I saw Tim and Eric on it, I was very distracted because I was like, "Oh yeah, I know this tune. I like this tune." And then it's just Tim and Eric. And also that bass, the Steinberg.
[00:30:35] Mahea: Yeah, so I was gonna ask you, as a bass player, cause the instruments aren't plugged into anything in the video.
[00:30:40] Carter: Yeah, they're not?
[00:30:41] Mahea: Is that the actual bass on the track?
[00:30:43] Carter: I have no idea. Marty, you know those, I mean you saw the video, but like those super light and like, there's barely a body to it, there's no headstock? Um, I also, I don't like videos where... You're playing along and you're clearly not plugged in, like, so that's a strike against this video that I like very much.
[00:31:02] Martin: There's like a, there's like a particular...
[00:31:04] Carter: I didn't notice that, but now I'm really bothered.
[00:31:06] Martin: There's a particular aesthetic to this that I think they're playing into.
[00:31:10] Mahea: You know, just Ben Folds is very good at balancing kind of the over the top poetic nature of songwriting that people are used to loving, um, where every line is just pure poetry and everything is a little melodramatic... and we, as listeners, feel our feelings in very heavy ways, um... he's good at balancing that with language that's a little more colloquial and a little more realistic and easy to relate to. And a lot of songwriters aren't good at it. And Ben Folds is great at it.
[00:31:38] Um, I love songs that exist in that kind of emotional gray area, where the topic isn't super polarizing, you know. Lyrically, a lot of breakup songs just put you on somebody's side. And he's good at addressing complicated situations that are actually fairly normal and relatable.
[00:31:59] And you're talking about a situation where two people are comfortable with one another, but have a flawed relationship, ultimately.
[00:32:10] I love it when songs use things like arrangement to really lean into their narratives a little bit more. And having those male female vocals where she kind of comes in and out, sometimes they connect and sometimes they're in very different places. It's... it ties into that idea of knowing someone but not really knowing them in a way that I find super interesting. Sappy much, right?
[00:32:34] So, harmonically speaking, we can get off lyrics so that you guys can get back into the conversation. Um, harmonically speaking, this is a pretty straightforward song. We're staying pretty diatonic all the way through.
[00:32:46] It's always funny to me to realize how many of the songs I love are actually very simple and diatonic. Because when I go to write on my own, I always have this like, "how can I make the chord progression more interesting?" You just don't have to.
[00:33:00] Carter: It's interesting to think, you know, if we do more of these and it'd be a good idea to just kind of keep the harmony in mind on all the songs that we do, because all of our songs today are very down the middle harmonically.
[00:33:11] But I'm sure that based on the theme, there will be some more kind of intricate harmony at play. But like, when I first heard "Brain Stew," I didn't care what the chords were. I had no idea what they were. Yeah.
[00:33:23] Mahea: There's something comfortable about chord progressions that you've heard a million times and I think it's still really impressive that an artist can create something original while leaning on a progression that we're very used to, um, that maybe even sets up expectations for a different kind of melody sometimes.
[00:33:41] Another one of the questions from our list of things to consider when reviewing these songs is whether there's anything about the song that seems like it shouldn't work, but then does, or that you might expect wouldn't work.
[00:33:53] Carter: Any of the instruments, because they're not plugged in. Ha ha ha, ayo!
[00:33:58] Mahea: Uh, um, I have no problem with cursing, as a person. I think that there's a reason we use language like that. And I think that you should either go all in and really be like, this is part of the mood I'm creating.
[00:34:10] Uh, if you did a PG version of "Fuck the Police," it would not do anything for anyone, you know? Like it wouldn't have that righteous indignation in the same way if it was very polite.
[00:34:19] Whereas like, you know, if you throw the word "fuck" into like a bubblegum pop song, it kind of feels like you're trying to be something you're not... like add edge that isn't there.
[00:34:27] Carter: Yep.
[00:34:28] Mahea: ...to the point where it's pretty distracting. And so he has one f bomb in the song, but it works. It's not distracting. It, it does that thing a good bridge does where you really hit an emotional climax. And right in that moment, it just gets so raw and emotional. And then we drop back down to repeating, um, you know, that, that chorus, if that's what you want to call it.
[00:34:50] Martin: To me, this is like, this is like Ben Fold's version of breaking the fourth wall. On, on his, on, on... and I think that actually also to Carter's point about why the video is so weird and so weird that the instruments aren't plugged in, that's sort of, that's sort of the, the crux of Ben Fold's genius is to break down all of our expectations about the storyline being portrayed, you know? It's, it's... you're in this sort of, this fairy tale land of this perfect heteronormative relationship. And then he's like, Oh, let me just drop this random F bomb in this otherwise very like, very sort of PG safe, um, diatonic space.
[00:35:34] Mahea: So where that bridge hits, where that moment happens, it becomes this really interesting turning point — which again, one of my favorite things that bridges do is they sometimes change what a line means from earlier in the song when it comes back in.
[00:35:51] So that "you don't know me at all "thing, up until that point, it feels very directed at the other person. It kind of feels like, "oh, you haven't taken the time to really understand me." And there's a bitterness.
[00:36:01] And then you get to that moment in the bridge and the singer becomes kind of unhinged, which I think is something we can all relate to in relationships, you know? Where you just kind of lose it.
[00:36:13] And then it drops down to this place and it feels much more directed at yourself all of a sudden, you know? It's like a black mirror twist or something where all of a sudden you feel weird as an observer for identifying with one character and then finding out they're not perfect?
[00:36:37] [track]: [music]
[00:36:40] Mahea: Yeah, those are, those are my big observations.
[00:36:46] Carter: Well, on that note, I don't...
[00:36:48] Martin: I got, I got, I got one more, I got one more point to bring up about this conversation before we wrap it up, which is: most young people, people who were our age when we bought our first record... most of the people who are that age now, I don't know what it means to buy a record at all.
[00:37:09] A tape, a record, a CD, what have you. How does it... how do we..?
[00:37:16] When I think about the way that Daft Punk's Discovery, like I was talking about, the sense of harmony, the sense of euphoria in the music, the kind of electronic music it was, the sort of human breath inside of the electronic music... like I got to experience that by investing my 10 cents into it, because I spent a dollar on, on my first 10 CDs.
[00:37:41] But like, I had to buy that CD. I looked at it. I looked at the album artwork.
[00:37:46] Mahea: You had to open that annoying plastic stuff!
[00:37:48] Martin: I had to pry with my fingernails I didn't have to get that CD out of that jewel case.
[00:37:55] Mahea: Right. And try not to scratch it.
[00:37:57] Martin: Put it in my CD-ROM player in my Dell tower with Windows on it. And I opened up my Winamp with the sick skin on it, and I pressed play on that CD, and my mind was blown in a way that most people have to go to... that they're just scrolling through TikTok and they're like, "Oh, this is sick. Like I've never heard anything like this before."
[00:38:19] And it's like, you didn't do any work for that.
[00:38:23] Carter: That's going to do it for this very first episode of Themes and Variation. Thank you so much for listening.
[00:38:31] We really want to know what songs were on the first album you ever bought. So there's a link in our show notes to a Spotify community playlist. Feel free to check it out and add your tracks there.
[00:38:43] And remember to head to soundfly.com for all of your music learning needs. We'll be back in two weeks with a new episode and a new theme.