RAYE

Better late than never, but right on time. That's how I feel about getting a chance to finally do this and talk to you. I'm just so happy to see you. I'm so happy to be here, Zane. Thanks for having me. Oh, it's such a pleasure. Thank you for all the amazing music and the truth and the honesty that you pour into it. And thank you for this remarkable new album. We got a lot to talk about. Yeah.

It feels real, huh? I can tell by the way that you're sitting and edging and moving around like oh shit, it's actually a thing now. It's a thing. It took so long to make, I can tell you had a I mean, it's a lifetime's worth of work that's gone into this album, isn't it? It's taken every blood cell. I'm honestly

exhausted, both mentally and physically, not in a bad way, just in the way of if I've not been on a stage, I've been pouring into this body of work in some way, shape or form. Um and I'm so Yeah, I also took on the task of wanting to EP right, all of it lyrically and melodically from the top line perspective and Work with in a a plethora of just incredible musicians and big bands and string sections and orchestras and like it's just been a labour of absolute passion and love.

want that as a fan of music. If you've got if you've got it in you and you want to say it, you want to bring it to life and you want me to be immersed, I'll go there. Your fans will go there. There's a few roads you could have gone down once you had proof of concept. Right. On the last album. Right. You could have followed up quickly, hit us between the eyes. I feel like, you know, husband was a little bit of that, like I'm gonna smack you. I know exactly what you want.

Um But that really was like there to keep us company while you were trying to figure this out. It's almost like a div like a like a dys like a sort of distraction over here, like enjoy this'cause you're not even you know, this is I've got something that's out of control going on here. How important was confidence towards making this body of work, that realizing, you know what?

I know this is mine now, no one can take it away from me. It works for me and I can go and make these grand statements I know I have in me to make. Yeah I think probably part of the Probably subconsciously there's a kind of rebellion in there of the former model of which I existed for so many years. Of, you know, everything being so simple and so minimal and you know, having done a serious amount of time, um, if I do say so myself, honing the songwriting craft from a songwriter's perspective.

um, you know, turning up as a songwriter in a studio with another artist and I'm just there to help craft You know, it being like to brief, it needs to be this long, it needs to be this BPM, it needs and that, you know, and and that that was a lot of my life, a miserable mm existence for me. So I think there's a subconscious rebellion that has occurred in this body of work of Um being told for also for so many years you don't know who you are, you need to pick a sound.

You keep telling me to go in with people I don't know and write top lines in a day, so how do you expect me to possibly Exactly. Exactly. It's that and then it's also a mixture of the fact that like I'm not just one thing. I've grown up with many different cultures. You know, I've got a white dad and a a black mum and we've we're from many different places. My whole...

you know, identity is is not one thing. So how can you ask me to decide with my whole chest to choose one thing? I've just never been that kind of artist or person. Um so I had a really hard time for so many years trying to like you know, be something that I wasn't that I think in this record embraced maximalism and expressing and exploring in any genre that I felt I wanted to.

if it felt right to go into a little big band swing section from a you know, a more hip hop led whatever d I don't know, what what even is genres nowadays, you know? Listen to this album, it's just you. I mean, uh d you summed it up beautifully. We're really understanding and when we listen to this album now who you are at this point in your life and the journey you've been on to get there.

There's so much to dive into across the subject matter of this. It's not just getting to know you artistically, but also you tell your life story through this album.

I mean it's so personal and so honest and so amazing. But I've never had a chance to talk to you about it. So I wanna address this up front. How important was that statement that you made for the internet and the world to see in terms of in terms of breaking that spell of people having control over you and what really ultimately

urged you to want to take it to a point of of I've had enough and I'm not gonna sit in this s in this room anymore. The internet will break me out of this fucking room. You know? Well do you know what? The best case scenario that could have happened happened in that moment. But in that moment I was You know, I think there's a certain kind of like r r you know, resilience you have to have to choose to be an artist or a songwriter or anything in the arts.

One hundred percent. Right. You're out of the matrix. You're no longer in the comfort of capitalism, man. You gotta make it or Go, hustle, knock the doors, sleep the no sleep on the you know. And um but after doing that for ten or no, seven years in that specific label system that I was in, it for me was a breaking point of Um I'll just be a songwriter for the rest of my life. So it was almost like you were given up. It was almost like you made that statement saying I'm done, I'm cooked.

It was. Wow. Well the the the the risk the the great risk was that, you know, you have me in a contract, you buy you I'm binded in a contract. It's a petty business. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It really is. piss the wrong person off, they're like, Oh, you don't like where you are now? Well let's see w how you feel in ten years. Sitting still. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um and I'm just so fortunate that um I think it was a mixture of different things, you know.

I gained a lot of like attention in the UK. People started contacting me for interviews and it was a very beautiful moment for me for the first time. I felt like I had some sort of power over my future and I was able to kind of Pretty explicitly say, you know. You know, I'm gonna really go on I'm gonna take every interview and I'm gonna tell every gory detail. Or we can do we can do this the easy way or the hard way. How is it?

It was a great feeling. And I'm very lucky they let me go as well and it was clean and da da da. Yeah, yeah, but guess what? It doesn't it doesn't mean the same unless you go on to to use that freedom to create something that's truly you that connects and boy did you. I mean it was the ultimate win, you know, it was like I got my freedom and now all those things that you didn't realize you had that was sitting there waiting for you. I got him. Oh, really good feeling that's It's a great time.

Amazing. Um, well thank you for answering that. You know, the success was was very sweet for everyone who's who's listened to your music for a long time and and seen you get to that point. Um And, you know, when did it really hit you that that this w that, you know, you didn't have to consider the concept of giving up or being a song right after higher anymore and that actually this was a pathway you could stay on as long as you want. Was d has there been a moment of realisation?

Um well I think the second we became independent and you know, I was aware that um we were in this fresh slate clean slate kind of place. Um but also it was a you know, ha therapy had to occur, do you know what I mean? Like ha a lot of healing had to occur and, you know, and Yeah, it's it's not it wasn't a simple you know, it wasn't a simple time. Um and when I yeah, when we came out the other side it was a lot of, you know, soul searching and then it was kinda like trying to find

You know, put together a body of work of these fragmented a very fragmented way. A lot of songs from a lot of years past and New thoughts from therapy and new realizations and therapy. But also old songs that I've had just been in my Dropbox that I was just like, This is I really love this song and I wanna put my name on it and put it out. Like Oscar Winning Tears is like a eight year old song. Like it was

And I was like, please, I love this No, no, no, no. It was just so it was it was and then you kinda go in your head and you're like, All right, well we got nothing to lose. It was literally me, my dad and um Uh we found a distribution company, the one literally the only place that would

and and it w would take my album as was and like support me on this journey. Every label I tried to see, like, would you be down to be'cause I'm like, how are we gonna do this? You know, I I don't know what being independent is, I wasn't even considering that at first. I was kind of maybe hoping for the idea of a new home or and it was just like, No, no. We like Ray, but

We don't this music would need to go again. It was just so much like wall after war and I was just like, what am I doing wrong? So we just kind of you know, we found this great distribution company called Human Resources and this amazing guy called J Irving and we literally mastered the songs, recorded them, a lot of them in my living room at home. This is album one, you know? Put it together, put it out. And song one, song two came out and it was a real air of like

You know, there was a very small fan base who cared, but the UK music industry was, you know, very like raised done, like raised over. It was very This is so mad, yeah. So escapism was just like game changing for me and that that helped to just start everything off really for me as a solo as an independent artist.

So many beautiful things about that story. I mean n you know, not least of all the fact that you achieve that in a family environment and you know, you get to share it with your family, you get to keep the business in house, you get to share the rewards. Yeah. Um, and there's an element and a level of trust there that um had obviously been

lacking from an industry wide point of view up to that moment. Has it been challenging for you as you become successful to trust that success and trust the people who then want to give you opportunities and offers because for the longest time you know, you it it was just going the wrong way. Um Um I think

You know, I think because w we have a very small family team, you know. M my parents are are our managers, my sisters are also incredible artists and we have a very lovely Tight knit, tiny, lovely team of of mostly girls and dad and my creative direc director Mikey. It's very small and lovely. So I just trust my my team. Trust is is the most valuable thing. I think this industry can show you just how many lies and pictures it can paint, how many dreams it can sell, you know.

just you hear everything. I've heard everything under the sun. You like from the age of sixteen, like uh you know, being in a room with one of the biggest people in the game, not naming names, but, you know, I'm sixteen years old and it's like

this huge artist has agreed to endorse you, you know, like someone I'm a huge fan of. You know, all you need to do is just sign this contract. Like it's just like and you're there, like and you're just being toyed with and you're just you know, it's a real roller coaster of just absolute BS, you know, which

this industry can really be and put you through, especially as a young girl who doesn't know any better and just wants to be a flipping singer. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So I think having gone through and learnt some of the toughest lessons now it's just my little team. Yeah. I like it that way and I trust everyone in it and we've got each other's backs and it's safe and that's a really nice feeling.

That first feeling that made you want to be an artist and a singer in the first place is within arm's reach because the people who were there when you made that decision are right next to you still. Right. And I've seen that so many times with artists who forget what that feeling was like on that roller coaster because their family is fifteen thousand miles away or whatever. Yeah. And it feels like that was a lifetime ago. Yeah. That can be really tough. Can be really tough.

Yeah. You don't get to make a body of work like this unless you feel safe. I like that. Yeah, I think you're right. Because the Where you're going as a storyteller here is so detailed and so personal and so beautiful, yet somehow I still feel like I'm a part of your story. So thank you. It's a it's a wonderful line you've walked on this record. Well received that. Thank you, Zayn. That's really cry. Um it starts with an intro. Girl under the gray cloud. Seven to gro Seven Negroni's dead.

Seven negr seven fucking negronies. If I had seven negronies, I'd be deep somewhere. where they'd be digging me up. I mean that's a that's a strong ass drink. Um that's a start of the night drink, not an end of the night drink. Um and it starts in a in a way that I can only assume is truth and it begins with truth. So what are you so so what's happening in that in that intro?

Well, I'm on my own in Paris, Seven of Granis Deeps at some lovely chic bar. Um and I'm just on my own and it's kinda mixture of just just a load of just emotions that I thought I would have overcome by now and that just I'm like looking at myself, like, Are we here again? Like, what's going on? And I guess, you know. that image and that night and that whole feeling was both Um, you know, it was it was also quite beautiful. It was one of those like sad and beautiful

Pictures and I really wanted to enunciate that into an opening monologue. I really like the idea of We are all the main characters of our own lives, right? But I really wanted to just expand in that in like a really It's a thespian delusion that we have in our own lives for sure. Right? Yes. And I just think You know, there's a there's a word that I'm so inspired by Sonda means the idea

that everyone is being overwhelmed by the fact that everyone is living a life as detailed and complex as your own. Like you look around this room and you're like, These these hands I look at all right, you could get you could get really deep, right? But these are the only hands I'm ever gonna see in like someone else's hands that's like really theirs and that whole thing just explained like massively but you know, there's actually something quite beautiful about

th the theatre in in who I am. I put on my fake fur coat and I'm go to a bar and I sit down and order Negroni after Negroni people watching and admiring like but also realizing that I'm just like really alone and some of my friends really suck and I don't know who I trust right now and like you know, I think I'm pretty pretty depressed right now. You know, f I've d I'm bit I've gone back to being low. I thought I was good. But I know I'm gonna be all right.

And this is quite a chic moment to be sad. I don't know, it's like that whole culmination of Someone playing the main character in the remake of your life. Love that. Love that. Yeah. And also then you get caught up in this situation. I love having a drink on my own in a bar whereby sometimes you get you you y you know, you want to be noticed because you don't want to be alone. Not to you don't I don't wanna be approached, but I'd like to think that somebody knows that I'm there.

But No one gives a shit. No. Especially in Paris. They're so I love them. They're but they're so like they're too chic, do you know what I mean? In in New York everyone pretends not to give a shit but they're all desperately looking left and right. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Uh Parisian.

It's a beautiful um picture that begins this album and then we go into I Will Overcome which um is uh about as grand a statement to start an an album musically as as I I think you could probably muster at this point in your life. In fact it it's it goes beyond Anything I could have expected when I listened to it. Um how w what was it like to tame that that song?'Cause you didn't.

No we didn't We didn't at all, did we? No. Um this song Is, you know, l words are so powerful and I really believe that's quite a central ethos in in um in this music, May Contain Hope, is wanting to create uh lyrics that s to to write lyrics that Some maybe. To write lyrics that you can speak over yourself and rise above something and You know, some people say manifestation, some people

um, pray, some people have faith in things, some people whatever that thing is, you know, i it's is science also backs this up, right? If you look in the mirror and you say, I'm a failure, I'm a failure, I'm a failure U you will you you will succumb to that thing that you're declaring over yourself and this sentence, I will overcome, I will overcome. The mantra of it. I will overcome. Yeah, it

you know, far fetched and and cheesy for somebody who doesn't need to say that out loud, but some of us do. And for that girl I was that needed to to and and still fall back to, you know, life is a flipping up and down. But this I will overcome statement was so important to me and it was kinda thinking like what song and how am I gonna pair this?

phrase without sounding like flipping you know Uh like yoga TED talk, like I don't know, like you know, it's like how do you incur how do I encourage myself but in a way that just feels Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so it was kind of this sweeping

um sound w we found with with Tom Richards and and Chris Hill, my two amazing collaborators who are these orchestral geniuses basically. They're just like these musical nutcases. And um Uh Tom Richards, I worked on my my Twenty-first Century Symphony album with these guys are used to just like translating

you know, we start on a piano and then we work out how to then give what what the clarinet's gonna do, what the f and just like this whole just the full kitchen sink at this feeling of, you know I will overcome and it starting at the beginning of just this trudging through You know I'm not great right now. Things aren't great right now. Five hundred steps left to make it to the front door. My red high heels click click. Four mini four many two drinks. I fill my back.

I mean who wants to be in Paris drunken alone? Who Who does though? That's pretty kind of suck. It does, yeah it does. Okay, it's like why'd I go there to do that? I know. You know, you there's a couple of tools that you have clearly in your in your box that you're able to pull out in in order to reach past the concerns you have about that phrase becoming pastiche and making it and owning it. Um one is your ability to be able to sing it.

at a level where it it goes beyond m any cynicism anyone may have, you own that. By the end of it there's no denying it. There's also the the the the the the truth in the detail. Mm. You know, I I've got to bring it up. Um you know, I feel like any artist, in particular any female artist, in particular any female artist coming from the UK who's searching for truth and soul walks in the footsteps of greats, one of which of course is Amy.

And I feel like this is one of those things that as much of an honor as it is to follow in anyone's footsteps as late and great as that. that it's also gotta feel sometimes like there's a shadow from other people's point of view that's following you around. And I love how you would dress this head. Uh.

Yeah. In this song. Yeah. Can I ask you about what it took to leave that line in the song and be open enough to be able to recognize how people have perceived you before and how you now perceive that perception and the poison on their keyboard?

Wow bars zane. Said the poison on their keyboard, poet. Um, look, I think it's so funny to me like just having to kind of as you know, and my my growth as an artist has been very, very slow and very gradual so it's not just c crept up on me, but, you know, you I'm aware that I'm

Like the people see you as something to comment on or or discuss or analyse and as a third party and that's what making art is, right? You make things to be judged and then along with that comes you as a person being picked apart and judged which is, you know, it takes It's uh really hard to get used to that. It's not my strength. And I also really hate the if I can a add the fact that people assume that it comes with the job.'Cause it doesn't and shouldn't come with

Well you wish it wouldn't, right? And then I think on top of that it you know, obviously we have our keyboard warriors who hide behind like, you know, their screens and like we'll really let it go and really just f throw stoned and and I find that really hard and I find it really hard on a hard day. To the point that I'm just not online anymore at all'cause it's just really not good for someone like me. It's fair. It it's like, you know, the the through line of just

You think about Amy, right? Not only her artistry and the artist she was and the fact that everyone around the world loves her now. And loves what she created now.

you know, and wants to, you know, protect her at all costs now that she's not here anymore. That's right. And and I think it's so important when actually sometimes some of the insults people throw at me is, you know, you think y you you'll never be Amy, you're you're a f fraudulent attempt at a you know what a sad excuse for of this you you know what what was the point of you ever who do you think you are that you have the audac you know, in these words that kind of like

People wanna throw at you and say and the irony is you you done the sa you've done the same times a thousand to this woman who's not here anymore, why do you think she flippin' drank herself under the table? Like wha what what the British press and what what people put her through was so evil and so dark, so I wanted to draw from that comparison, though I

have experienced a m um m is a microcasm, is that a word? Like a tiny caves worth of of what what Amy endured. But I just wanted to say that, like, to that specific person, you know, you Look up just please, can you just take a moment? Back for a second. Just like can we just look and like how long are we gonna repeat patterns and just be like horrible to like Oh, it's just p people who who make songs for a living, like why you know you don't know me, I'm actually a really nice person, you know.

And I and I love music and I and I don't mean any h you know, so I really wanted to address that because it really has hurt my feelings time and time and again and that's also partly of w what the song is about, you know, this wicked world wants to whisper. You can't, you won't Yeah. shut up and go home and go to sleep, you know. This is my song to say. Just do you know what?

Shadows in the room, little breezes in the trees, and these whispers in the wind that the fucking just get inside your head. And I'm so grateful you were dressed a head on. I was blown away when I heard that lyric in real time.

And um I also loved the fact that they th that, you know, you didn't choose to make it about you. You then immediately reminded us all that to some degree Fuck, I mean I don't want to make it about everybody else, but I mean look I was around, we were all around when Amy was struggling and when the world didn't do enough.

No. I'm not saying anyone could have saved her or the s but the situation could have been different and it's complex and I don't understand the complexities of it. But I know that we in the throes and the beginnings of the Internet Age were not responsible as a species. No, it was bad. And sometimes it still is bad. And I just think like we just need to remember, like come on. Come on. Get your shit together.

Yeah. I'm gonna start moving around now because there's so much music to talk about and there's some key ones I wanna get into. I feel that was a pretty I mean, keep it light, mate, keep it fucking light. I can't remember. Keep a light. I mean I'm not gonna go into fields right now, you know what I mean? It's fucking give that ten minutes. Yeah.

But I can talk about joy. Yes. And I can talk about the relationship that you as a family have have continued to nurture as creatives, not just as family members.

To mutually support each other in your own visions. I've spoken to absolutely briefly on the phone, which was a wonderful experience, and that's amazing. Amma's amazing. What an amazing life. I mean, to be able to tour as a family and then to bring them onto this record for pure joy. How was it? By the way, I also feel like your sisters came in were

Fucking fall on the floor, like fucking razor tempo. I don't know how much truth there is in that, but I feel like they kicked you, they threw you back in the club for a minute. Um, how was it making it? It was it was a really beautiful time making this. Um this song. I'd say probably like 70% of my album has been made with my longtime collaborator and one of my best friends, Mike Sabbath. We have literally the best

um friendship and working relationship. I've known this boy since before he had facial hair, you know what I mean? And now he's got a full moustache, like the full thing. Um he's so brilliant and we we took a trip to Big Bear, so random, and rented a little Airbnb somewhere up the mountain and on this trip Yeah. It was um uh last year It was just after the Grammys. Cool. So it's kind of winter going into into springtime. Yeah. Nice. Just after the Grammys. Snow's starting to melt.

Things are starting to floor out of the yeah. Yeah, cool. But it was nice, it was up the man. And on this trip we did well, on this trip it was my first writing experience for a couple like a long time ago. I think we've been touring a lot and just been pretty back to back. So I was very um it was v deep end. I was like freaking out. What am I saying? Yeah, I was like, uh I don't know how to write, it's anything it's good, what are we doing? It was like one of we were there.

Um but on this trip we we created this kind of sound. So we did Where is My Husband on this trip, we did Skin and Bones on this trip, we did Joy on this trip, we did Beware the South London Lover Boy on this trip. Yeah, you gave us the dynamic ones. Yeah. W and then we throw a bunch of paint and we made a lot of songs, some of which yeah. But those were the ones that were formed out there. And it was funny with Joy, um it was just scratch vocals and that very distinct sound.

Um and the chorus was there from the jump, but How did you get to the st the the the stabs? That was just m me and Mike just doing what we do. Like the what's really great about Mike is any limits there's no boundaries or no limits. I think he sees music as freely as as I do. Yeah, yes, why wouldn't we do that?

Yeah. You know, and we're just we I was like, Let's sample James Brown that's how I started with him saying there was a record of him I wanted to sample great, like the people I love and and respect and look up to. Um and and James Brown had a song, I can't remember what the original song was, but there's a huge monologue in the middle and he's like talking to his band and he's like Mr So and so are you somebody? And they're like, I'm somebody He's like stay I am somebody That's what's cool.

Yeah, yeah. And then we went round and round and then he said, Miss Ray, are you somebody? And I think he was talking to like uh one of his singers and we were like, Oh, it's my name, like let's cut that bit and just loop it. Started like that, kick drum, sin. Don't I move some chords that we're getting m we're singing real time, playing real time. Love these, round. Negroni, Negroni, go. Have a Negroni, go.

Yeah. It was like literally that that fell out and then it was like let's let's take it to church and that co chorus. Yeah. So we went gospel stack. loads and loads of vocal layers. And then um it just grew from there. But it was just kind of creating a feeling, you know, you wanted I knew hope was the central theme of this album I wanted to make. I knew album one was

whatever I was going through then and I knew that this one I wanted to be not just for me but you know, being aware I think spending like three years on stages I'd learnt so much about the what what I wanna share as an artist and I think actually I wanted to actually create music with the purpose of

um hope but also hope in a live experience, you know, wanting to I want people to enter that space and leave feeling like, Okay, I'm gonna not give up on life today. Like which is, you know, for anyone who doesn't need to Um For anyone who doesn't need that maybe won't get get it and that's okay, but but I wanna make it for that person who needs that.

Because you'd had moments on stage touring up to that point where you'd looked out in the crowd and realized that people were going through what they were going through, you were present enough to see that. You were looking for the music to try to make them feel better, you had to go make it. Adiós. Yeah yeah.

Medicine music is medicine I'm seeing like people are literally like You know, we go to a concert to or we go and see a a film or we go somewhere we're searching for the arts for some sort of something, you know, to to hold on to, to inspire us, or to just breathe a new lease of life to to be able to go and attack the the day.

It all ends up being a memory and it's the bit I think that's really what it comes down to, right? Like I'm I'm experiencing this with a family member. I'm open about this in my conversations, um, who's going through some serious cognitive decay and dementia and stuff. And they would just they just want the memories. All my mom wants is the memories. And then when we put the music on, she goes to the place where the memory is. Oh, that's beautiful.

No, music is the therapy, there's no doubt about it. Magic. But um But it's but I think that when we buy the hard ticket and we go in and it feels like it's a trade and it's all a part of the you know, m the the the machinery of capitalism and blah blah blah, and especially right now with ticketing being such a fucking hot topic rightfully so uh it's about capturing an experience and a memory that you'll remember. Absolutely. And I literally

Oh my god. These t these shows have been insane, but I break myself on touring because I just wanna give each night, like my shows, like two and a half hours on a on a passionate day and you know So the I care so much about it but then there's even like yeah anyway. So me and my sisters having them on this record and having them in these shows and having them as part of this you know, part of my life in such a real and vivid way is one of the most rewarding feelings you can possibly imagine.

There's it's so funny, like um we do joy at the end of my set and they come out one by one and and I'm trying so we have to I have to not look at Amma when she comes out because I'm either gonna cry or like burst out laughing because it's just so oh sorry, it's just so ludicrous that my little sister's coming out on a microphone singing, there's like thousands of people and then my next sister comes out and we just stand together and

You know, and then we do the end and the curtain comes down and we're like waving and then the curtain hits the bottom. Then what do you do with the current? We like literally laugh when I'm And I'm like you And I'm like, How was that for you tonight? Was that nice? Did you like that? And we'll have a little hug and we'll it's so beautiful and I'm so pr those girls are just beginning. They are so ridiculously talented.

And I'm so proud. And Joy was a perfect song. So I remember I had the song and I I was kind of very it was actually one of the last songs to be lyriced. Um I kind of finished the album in order, even though they were created higgledy piggledy. Um but yeah, I was like, girls, I think this is the one we should do and then got'em in, got a ton of choir takes, loads of vocal layers and um that they each out of their verses individually separately, played them to me. I was like, correct.

Exactly. Yes, girls. That's how you do it. Well done. Love you. Yeah. Center master.

I know you're hurting. You've put that in the order of things in a very real way. I feel like. you've got us into a place where we're strong enough to be able to start listening to different sides of the life story here. And that one is really, really powerful. That idea of whether you're talking about yourself, you're having a self reflective moment or reflecting on a relationship with somebody that you care about, that sense of helplessness.

seeing through the vis the facade. That to me, there's a lot of pain that you'll experience in life. Um, that is a very vivid visceral pain. Like the unattainable comfort. Yeah. That you want to offer somebody. Yeah. Where were you when you wrote it? How'd you feel writing it? Please just put it through the f the you know, the filter of making that song. So this is actually one of the first, if not the first record I wrote for this album. Um, it was last year two years ago.

In October. My birthday two birthdays ago. Um I was twenty six, so we uh had my birthday on that trip. And I remember I was in the room with my band, so it was Matt Brooks on the drums. And Graham Blevins on the saxophone and Tom Richards on the organ and I was sat on the piano. It was this beautiful room full of

My guys, you know, and I remember we were having a really real conversation. We're talking about mental health and we're talking about you know specifically actually on that day we were talking about mental health in men and just how you know, as women we It's a whole entire separate conversation because women th the uh the adversities and discussion there is is endless.

But it was also important I felt in that moment to really see my guys and I was just kinda talking about the fact that there is still this not still, there is brave face.

you know, where I'm kinda like where do you guys talk about emotions? Where you where do you guys, you know, express this and that. Some of them are dads, you know, some of them are And it's just this real understanding of the fact that, you know, especially in British culture Boys will express themselves or or like y you know, emotion expression will come through like going to the pub and laughing with your friends, like um Social football, I think is Still playing at the age of forty eight.

'Cause you love the game, but equally, where else are you gonna let off steam? Right? So you got you guys are going to the pub like, Yeah, mate, you're right, yeah, how's the missus? Yeah, this is good. Laughing, laughing, drinking, drinking. But then that like this maybe is as deep as it it potentially gets for a lot of men in a lot of cultures and I was really, um moved to And they expressed as much.

Yeah, they did. I have a really beautiful relationship with my band and actually we're all getting a little bit teary and um a little bit emotional and we'd started writing a song earlier that day. kind of talking about mental health and just like And everyone was just like we were all a bit we were all crying. Um and then I remember getting on the piano and I said a little prayer actually. I was like, you know, dear God, like help me find a way to tell like a song to tell this.

story really beautifully and I literally turned to the piano and it was this bum bum bum and these four chords that we literally loop throughout the song until the key change. Dun dun dun you know, F

A minor G and just loop round and round and all of a sudden Brooksy My Drummer starts catching this kick and we wrote it in real time. There's a there's a recording of us making the song together. It was like an hour and forty minutes just d you know, like a band, you know, just drilling the song, moving together and I'm singing different

I can see you standing on the edge and just these different the you know, some of the lyrics were there real time, some of them was combed after but we took away this twelve minute kind of cut demo that I was living with and living with and then um

I was like, I know I need to make this into something and then I went back to my LA place and with a lovely um engineer called N H and um Then I remember specifically there's a a friend in my life, um and the lyric was was ca was like I was like, you know when you need um that that poignant perspective. So it's like I have the intention of the song

But actually I'm gonna write this as a letter to my friend who's going through a lot right now. Yeah. So it was addressed specifically to him and it was you know, it was it was that that s that purpose of the song that I needed. The emotional resonance. Yeah, to say this is what I wanna say to you, you know. Yes. You you you always have a kind word for a stranger, you know. Yeah.

You I wish that you could find some for yourself and you claw yourself apart in private moments and over bruises you put plasters on and you know, I'm aware how long this song is, you know, it's it's seven minutes and fifty s I think maybe longer than

But I just was like I'm not I don't wanna cut a single second off of it. It's interesting'cause I saw a review someone wrote the other day or something calling some like it's self indulgent and I was like you've completely missed the point of this specific song because it's actually this i it's actually not about me, because actually my instinct might say, You don't need this part of the verse, you don't need this bit, make it shorter, make it That's self indulgent.

Right. Making it well creating it for the purpose of selling records. You're putting your own identity into something that belongs to other people and was It wasn't about that. It wasn't about that. It wasn't about that. And it's about giving people a bath of time to enter this song and grieve and feel and hopefully come out the other side when we take that key change and make that lift.

Thank you for doing that because in essence that is what's missing from the conversation is that as soon as we start to have these conversations or traditionally There's a sense that the clock is ticking and we need to just say what we need to say and get on with getting on. And actually what you need and what human beings in general need is more space and more grace. Face and grace, yeah. Yeah. That's kind of what we need more of. Yes. Yeah. But we're just bashing into each other all the time.

Yeah. And everything's getting shorter and shorter and quicker and quicker and faster and faster and Bouncing faster and faster. I don't know how we slow things down, but an album like this it will certainly help. Um, you know, it it it demands attention in all the right ways. It is not something that you skip through, although that's what I'm doing right now in terms of the conversation, but I have I mean there's a lot of autistic, yeah.

Um what was the hardest one to write? The hardest one to write. For you personally in terms of where you went. Okay. Mm. Oh, okay. So they're split into the autumn, winter, spring, summer. That's how I'm kind of imagining I was imagining them in my mind and the story in my mind. is literally seasonally broken down through as a track listing. Yeah.

So one of the hardest ones for me to write for a whole other reason was The WhatsApp Shakespeare. Um and that's purely because that song has had twelve or thirteen completely different choruses. I have just you know when you're just like it was an old song Mike and I started years and years ago, which was like super, super symmetrical, super simple. Yeah. But like still had that vibe. And I was just like, My gosh, it took me so many

It took that took so much effort. I had to s take months breaks from it for a lot of time. But I finally cracked it and I I love it personally. I think it's really funny. Makes me laugh a lot. Um and yeah, true story. Life, right? Uh and um So that was hard maybe from a technical. Headline that it's a true story, Ray, when it's all a true story. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Right, right, right. Um but hardest hardest to write, um Hardest to write. Um

Can I redirect the question? Yeah. How was Rottingfield? Oh that do you know what Writing Fields was was beautiful actually. Can you just describe? for people listening. The story there's a beautiful narrative through this record. That's that's uh at the center of the purpose of why it exists. So something so beautiful about this album is

I've actually managed to get all my grandparents on this album in some way. Um my grandma's the star of the show in like the intro and Where is my husband? Um actually even my late grandfather who just passed away, my Swiss grandad is so deep and actually like brings me to tears whenever I hear the start of it. But he was on his Deathbed pretty candidly and He's Swiss German. Swiss German is his mother language but he speaks a little bit of English and it was my uncle when I was like to my uncle

Can you just get a voice note of granddad saying, I'm not giving up yet? And, you know, he he he was, you know, Alzheimer's and dementia and stuff like that and he was just, you know, ready to go. And my uncle managed to get like an Dude, five five minutes worth of a voice note from him. But out of the middle and all the Swiss German he said somewhere in the middle, he just said, I'm living, not giving up yet. And I was literally like, I'm sobbing right now. I mean it was so deep.

And I cut it out and I put it that's that's his croaky beautiful voice at the start of life boat. And by the way, can I just say, no, if this is the most beautiful thing, but as someone again who is experiencing this, you cannot direct somebody who is existing in a dimensionally alternative space or searching for memories and elements. You cannot direct them to say anything. They

That was like so divine. It was like, wow. I was like, Thank you, God, for giving me this gift. That was the last thing I managed to you know, and then he'd pass like maybe a week later. Yeah. So it was that a and my nana and granddad at the start of that record too. My my my my grandparents honouring my grandparents is just like

just the greatest gift this life has offered me, a chance to honour my grandparents. My grandma on the Brit Awards stage. That is something wow, you know, and my my granddad at at Monsho Jazz Festival. Honouring my grandparents for me is The b yeah, anyway, that's a whole other hour's conversation. But on this song specifically, my granddad Michael He's a songwriter, he's where I got it from.

You know, I tell I told a story at the Ivers um a a year or two back about, you know, he had a song stolen from him when he was a kid. Um, he used to write songs um and send them to record labels. So he would record on tape and he would write score the music. He had a little rickety piano and you know, proper proper working class middle England. So zero

you know, connections or or any kind of protection or anyone to help a talented boy make his dreams a reality. Um and he used to send boxes to record labels down in in London with the hopes that he would create something that um you know, someone would take and change his life. Bege exactly. Um and you know, the story is so devastating that he wrote this song in particular that for li legal reasons for the fact that I don't have a lawsuit to go up again

blah blah blah, the machine to anyway, and the evidence is so yeah, so he'd recorded the tape and scored a specific song and sent it in a box to a London record label. Got a letter back Have you ever has it ever has it ever come to light what the song is? Yeah I know what his song is, but I just can't tell you on air'cause I just can't hand like they would probably hit me with a flipping huge legal. But like he had to watch that song f succeed everywhere and

Everyone said he was crazy, everyone he tried to tell. This was about me. The song was about this, which was even based in his where he lit like it's so devastating. And then and there he gave up on his dream altogether. He just gave up. And it's like devastating, you know, when you I remember we even sat together as a family one day and like someone like covered it on like a T V show and we were just he just like left the room and he was just like sobbing. It was just like deep, you know.

to say the least. And I think it's interesting maybe my advocacy or passion for songwriting stems probably deep from my what my family's even endured. You know, the system is just so rigged sometimes and So w the most beautiful thing a granddaughter could do for granddad so brilliant and talented was to for us to make a song together. So I remember he came down

to London and we booked a studio and we started chipping away at the song together and it was just absolutely magical. Um two of my band members, um Danny and Liv, the girls actually came in and started this song with me which was really, really beautiful. I made a lot of the song with my band. These songs with my band. And yeah, granddad came down and it was just

so medicinal and so beautiful. And just, you know, even also reflecting on how busy we are. Some of the lyrics are like, it's been so many months I haven't called is always some something more important on my to-do list.

Um, all these days chas chasing everything I lack, grandad. Seems I dwell on all I don't have instead of what I do and it's just actually this focus and then we're we live these lives and we're always like, We need to get this next, I need to climb this ladder, I need to make this thing up That's the great sacrifice. It's the one thing you look back on when you've chased all of your dreams and travelled down so many roads. The only thing that I regret is the time I didn't spend.

Didn't spend or didn't make for those people that mean more than anything It's okay, years with therapy and maturity will give you a chance to to forgive yourself for that. Right. But it's good to remind people that it's that it is part of the roadmap. Yeah. And it's good to acknowledge it at certain stops on the road before you get to a point where you passed all those stops and didn't stop. Yeah. It's pretty important. It really is.

Yeah, I feel that one deeply and I love that song very, very much and uh the story makes me love it even more. Um God, there must be moments when you are in the thick of this.

before it turned around and you were like, My God, I'm not I'm not gonna go down the same road as my granddad. I'm not gonna To have followed in his footsteps and and have this passion, only to find the industry in my own way, different to his, but in my own way, to be treating me this way must have just been So sobering for you.

I think it it did, but do you know what's also so beautiful is the fact that maybe even, you know, my grandparents and everything that they've endured You know, my grandma has a whole other insane story, but everything they've endured, you know they w what we're doing now as a family is like just the greatest gift like my grandad could see that, you know, his legacy, his talent, his his passion for songwriting, his love for artistry passed down.

Same with my grandma passed down and passed down and then, you know, you get to come and see like all your granddaughters just Do you get a feeling that your granddad, who would rightfully feel some kind of way about even listening to music after going through the experience, has been able to reconnect in a deeper way, watching the spell get broken and seeing what you and your sisters have been able to achieve as a family?

And I think there's a specific moment at the Ivers. Uh the Ivanovellos is a very like Well it's quite the prize giving, darling. You go there and you get honored by so many it's really fucking fantastic awards. Here we go. Oh, yeah. I remember just attending like for the first time, eighteen or nineteen and just being

In floods of tears. Just seeing the stories of the people's faces that we don't know, but the the the the pens behind some of the greatest creation creations of all time. And it was in that room that I got to basically bring my granddad up on stage and be like

This is my granddad Michael. Mm. He belongs in this room just as much as anyone here. He's a songwriter. You know, he he the industry did him dirty, but he belongs in this room. And that moment, like for him and for me and my family was just so powerful um and m I I don't know how to quite explain it, but you know, there was a thing, all these different songwriters were coming up to my granddad and being like, Hello, or this happened

You know, to me actually when I was you know, in this kind of community that just welcomed him in for the first time that he was just You know, um uh what's the word? No, he didn't even get a chance to explain. Didn't even get a chance to experience all the time. Because it was good. Given his credit. Yeah. So um that was wow. That was such a yeah.

It's so lovely that he got to experience that'cause it's been waiting for him. And this is the thing that I I really try to tell any new artist that's going through something, or even my friends who have have had some success and are having a tough time. I'm like, it's still waiting for you. People are still waiting for you. Yeah.

You know, don't don't think that there's a couple of people who are disregarding what your ability is. There's a that there's a whole group of people who are waiting for you to make something. Time will come. Years and in my granddad's case you wait like what forty, fifty years. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's life, isn't it?

All right. Alright, Queen of Patience. I imagine that you are impatient as well. Yeah. I very am in I very am in very um. What drives you crazy? Um oh What drives me crazy? The mixing an album. It's really hard. It's a fucking messy. Sprint. Do you know what it is? You know, you know, I'm the I'm the person who has who who who gets so inside it that when I start to finally ask, I'm in this person I start f start to finally ask for one more change, I start apologizing about it.

I'm not even just like I need a change of like. I promise this is the last parent. Oh without doubt, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's agonizing. It's such a beautiful but agonizing process. Yeah. This is the point where you put your headphones in and you're just squirming like I felt more uncomfortable for for reasons I cannot explain. Oh, it's hard. I will pause it. I will just stop it.

Put it down and just like I have to breathe in and out. It's really like it the level of passion and detail is so intense. This is what it I was saying, you know, my my vinyl is is a first edition. I really apologize. Apologize before the vinyls.

Now I am I'm apologizing to anyone who's purchased the vinyl because you are getting the album. It's not a fraudulent vinyl, however, it is a first edition. I will I want you to know the digital versions of some of these songs Some are quite different and you just need to embrace that because I try It's really some of the some things are similar. Yeah. It was a journey and like literally the the deadline is the twenty Yeah, that first. But maybe there's a positive. I want that one.

We're gonna sell it as that, Zane. It's a collectible edition. Buy it now because it will be updated to the digital version. The song I was just playing before features Algreen. yeah oh my god Oh my god. The Reverend Algon. Oh my gosh, can we just Al Green, ladies and gentlemen? The songs and music. Okay, so first of all, Al Green. Maybe we even contact Al Green. Because if anyone could contact Al Green and get Al Green to sing on their song, everyone would be doing it. Right.

But here he is on your record. It was so we I managed to cross paths with his manager, Matthew, who is this like you know, he's such a character. Like he's everything you would You know, just like I don't know how to even explain him. Because they're the ones that often have been with these legends for a very long time.

He like kinda like looks down as he talks and like has these giant, you know, huge glasses and like is s cares so much about music and is like so nice and somehow got into contact about the idea of um me doing some writing for Al and this was like maybe a couple of years back. Crazy. And so I was like, do let's do whatever we what it whatever it takes to make this happen. Um so I flew out to Memphis for a week. No, that plane ride must have just been surreal.

It was insane. I was like, I'm on the way to meet Al Green. Like what? Um, and I got there and actually first I got to spend Two or three days writing with his band. Um I need to shout out Mr Reverend Charlie Hodges who is his organ player and he plays he played on all of the records. I remember him sitting there and you know love and happiness has such a

like such a distinct d um organ part and he was playing it for me and I was literally losing my mind. And this guy's literally like ninety years old. Like this is his organ player. He's literally ninety years old. He is so cute and lovely and he's like Good morning Miss Ray you know how you doing today like just the most beautiful I just was in the room with these musicians in the rooms they recorded all these records Why it is what it is.

It's not the notes, it's not the it's not the physical hands. It's the soul, it's feeling right and it's very much the their voice, it's their character being translated through an instrument. And you bring these guys together and they just speak Al Green, like and you're just there like, Oh my goodness, real time um it's making sense the puzzle pieces that went into making some of the greatest soul records of all time. So my mind is blown. Um and meeting Al was very Like

How are you? Like I just didn't know what to say really. Um yeah, and it was just such a an insane experience collaborating with him and his band on this song. I I knew that this was the song for him. And I, if he was open to it, I was like, This record, and I was literally if Al Green would be down to be on this record. Dennis game over in in my in my in my life. Like and he loves it. He loved it and yeah, his voice on this record is

And you really like you set the scene, you're like, Oh no, what you're about to experience is not lost on me. No. As Ray the artist. No. I know very m very clearly what we're what's going on here. This is are seriously the honour I feel, the gratitude and the honour I feel. that he is on this album of mine is I I am I'm just so humbled. Like I love this artist. I love everything he's contributed to music. I am just like wow. Wow. I mean he's just an absolute go to every single year for anyone.

That's the definition of timeless.

You're right there. Yeah. You're right there. This music may contain hope is the name of the album. That was the fastest 70 minutes I've spent in the company of someone. Yeah, I'm so grateful for the music that you give us and I'm so happy to have had the chance to talk to you at this point in your journey. Um

You know, and I'm looking forward to the next one already. And I know you've got so much music to make over the course of your life and I'm just I think we should all feel really grateful that you're still doing it. So thank you for the your time today. Thank you. And thank you for the detail and

like really, really listening and really hearing. You know, it's it makes an artist feel seen. So thank you for for s for seeing me. So I I really yeah, it was a yeah. I'm grateful. Very grateful. Thanks for thank you.