Welcome back to the Youth Ministry Mindset Podcast season 2 with voices from Alpha and Y Disciple Out of Net Ministries. My name is Jordan but I'm joined by some amazing friends and Co hosts. I'm Jason Kidd and. I'm Annie Grandel. And today, we are joined by our friend Chris Wesley. I'm Annie. Give us like a one sentence summary. What are we talking about? Why are we talking about it? And who is Chris? Great.
So this episode we're talking about the role and the power of sponsors in the confirmation process in particularly when we're talking about preparation. I am so excited that Chris is joining us for this content. When I was a parish youth minister, there was this book, this new book that came out about confirmation, which there have been a lot of books about youth ministry, most of them coming from the Protestant
space. And this book came out called Rebuilding Confirmation. And it was like this time bomb in my brain that went off because it poked at some of the things that I didn't realize needed poking. When I thought about the problem with confirmation, I thought about curriculum. Yeah, I was. I was convinced that it was we just needed to do curriculum better or truer or writer somehow. And so I just kept trying to. Writer a word.
It is now. OK, it is because in Annie's brain when she was 24, she said it and therefore it is. I said a lot of things when I was 24 that I no longer agreed. OK, sorry. Keep going. It was writer. It was not do it writer, Dang it. And this book came out by Chris Wesley and he was he was asking us to re examine why we did so many of the things that we had quote always done it that way.
And I took it to my pastor or my associate pastor, my Dre and said, can we start blowing some stuff up because I think we're wasting our time. And one of the things that caught my attention the most was the conversation around sponsors and mentorship in confirmation. So I could think of no better guest to talk about this particular particular content. Amazing. So let's get him in. Great, Chris. Thanks for joining us. Hey, hey everyone. How's it going?
Living our best life, you know. Awesome, awesome fresh coffee. It's. The morning I know. But no, everything is great here in the Baltimore area. So just excited to have this conversation. As I warned Annie before, this is a, this is a triggering subject for me on many different levels. So you know, I, I, I guess you guys are going to have to rate this not friendly for kids on, on the podcast websites. No, I'm just kidding. I, I hope this is informative and helpful. So I really do.
I mean, I'm staking my career on it. So let's go. Let's do this. If you need to, if you need to find a safe space you know in the middle, take a little time out you can. There you go. Thanks, Jason. I appreciate that. Yeah, I thought you could be like, come to Alpha for the same place. I was like, what are you doing, Jason?
Well, and the thing I'm excited about for this conversation, and so one of the things I really respect about you, Chris, is you've not been doing like side work in ministry. You've been working in a parish up until very recently. So you know what it's like on the ground. This isn't just theory. And I think that gives you so much credibility. So I'm just excited to share that with our audience. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you.
So we asked this question to everyone to kick it off. Who's your confirmation St. I don't really technically have one I So for me, my I'll, I'll get straight to the answer and then I'll tell the story. So for me, my confirmation name is Ezekiel and so a biblical name. And I picked it for two reasons. One, my mom was really on me
about picking a name. And so I just decided to engage in a game of Bible roulette and you know, ironically, the first first name that popped up was God, which she clearly made it clear that I could not choose that as my confirmation name. So we did it again. That's a great mom right there. Yeah, that's a great mom. Great mom there. And then it landed on the name Ezekiel.
And I got so excited about Ezekiel because one of my favorite passages, at least I thought it was one of my favorite passages, comes from Ezekiel, and I want to read it for you all. And it goes. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness for his truly his brother's keeper and the Finder of lost children.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempted to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee. That's Ezekiel 2517, according to Samuel L Jackson in the movie Pulp Fiction, which at the time, at the time I didn't know, was not actually in Scripture. But I thought that was pretty, you know, bad ass. And, and so I was like, you know what, I'm going to go with that
Ezekiel name. So for a long, long time before I actually read Scripture, I thought Ezekiel was, you know, pretty bad ass. But, you know, here's the thing. Too little did I know that God was playing the joke on me. Because if there's anything that speaks to ministry, it's like speaking to dry bones and trusting in the Holy Spirit to bring flesh into those bones. So God got the last laugh. But so yeah, my confirmation name is Ezekiel. That is amazing. OK, Can I ask a clarifying
question? Did you actually go to your mom and say God? I want my confirmation St. to be God because I really hope that part's true. Annie, come on, I was a 15 year old boy. Of course I said that, you know, and I said it with confidence. And you know, even though she's 5 foot 3 and I was probably 5-11 at the time, I was still scared of her. And so she reminded me, she will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and
destroy my brothers. And so you know, she quoted Samuel Jackson back to me. With that so good. Well, tell us, give us a little background of of your experience in ministry for those that that aren't familiar with you. Yeah, Thanks, Jason. So as Andy mentioned, I just completed about 20 years of parish ministry.
For the last 20 years I worked for primarily 2 parishes, Church in the Nativity and Timonium and then Saint Joseph's Parish in Cockeysville, MD and never had my intention of doing full time ministry. Needed a job after my missionary year with the Jesuit Volunteer Corps here in Baltimore and I just knew I needed a job. Long story short, fell in love with ministry. Had really no professional formation or clue so learned a lot on the job.
Lots of credit to nativity who invested a whole lot in me going to conferences, reading books, things like that. Lots of support there to really, you know, grow in this profession. Lots of networking and things along those lines. I mean, it grew up Catholic my whole entire life and you know, as as I shared with my confirmation name story, some of it needed to be corrected along
the way, which that happened. But started out in middle school ministry for about two years and then pretty much after that started to oversee all of high school and middle school ministry. And my time at Nativity, which included confirmation when I went to Saint Joe's, started out in youth ministry there and then eventually oversaw all catechesis for adults, youth and and children. What was your favorite? What was my favorite middle school ministry? Dude, middle school, thank you.
I mean, I love middle schoolers. Yes. I mean, you know, if you can figure out middle school ministry, you can figure out do anything. Yeah. No, it's anything you do, anything. I love that. Alright, so before we jump into this topic of sponsors, what is a sponsor? Because when I think of great sponsorship, I think of Chick-fil-A. They're great sponsors for anything that I do. So you're. Thinking Platters. So you're thinking corporate sponsors?
I'm thinking like, I'm gonna sponsor your event. And so a sponsor. I know this little common language, probably in the space of confirmation, but for people who are like me, what is a sponsor? Like why and why a sponsor? Yeah, if you're talking about good sponsorship, Chick-fil-A for sure. If you're talking about good chicken, it's found elsewhere. But we'll get back to that end of time sponsorship.
Yeah, those are fighting words. So we got to go back to it real fast before we can't go past that. OK. Rate, rate, rate. Chick-fil-A. Top three, top three chicken places, top three, top three. Yeah. Popeyes, Garbage chicken churches and KFC. Oh, I'm just, I'm just. No, I'm just saying that. I'm just saying that to KFC. I'm just. Saying that to my soul. I'm just saying. This will stink. This is a dagger. No, no, not it. OK. I mean, I, I don't know, it all depends what mood I'm in for.
But you want to talk about confirmation? I think we'll have a chicken podcast conversation a little bit later on. How about that? Oh good. OK. Yeah. All right. OK. OK. What is the sponsor? And why we do this? Yeah, you know, it, it, it is kind of fine because that is a great question, a question that I feel like everyone asks but no one answers. And so for me, I mean, it, it's kind of funny that it's a question we don't know the answer to when it's clearly laid out in Canon law.
Now, I'm not expecting people to bring up Canon law, you know, all the time or read Canon law because it is a pretty hefty book. But it says right in Canon 892, the primary responsibility of a sponsor is to provide the candidate prayerful support and guidance in his or her Christian walk, and to take care of that the confirmed person behaves as a true witness of Christ and faithfully fulfills the obligations inherent in this sacrament.
And again, that's Canon 892. And so basically it's a lifelong commitment. It's someone who's supposed to accompany, walk alongside the young person who is not just going through the Sacramento prep, but even after the preparations done, even after the sacraments received, you know, Jesus sends us out two by two. We're supposed to live life together.
And so a sponsor is that person who's not like necessarily your Obi Wan Kenobi or your guru in this regards, but that person who is there to hold you accountable, to pick you up, to lead you, to guide you, to witness what it means to have faith. And I know that might sound like a lot and even that definition might seem a little bit heavy, but it's really not that complicated.
And we've either like ignored it completely in the church or we've made it into something that's not supposed to be. And I think we tend to blame families a lot by saying, oh, you're just picking someone who's honorary. But like, we don't really tackle that well. And while I think it's an issue in confirmation, it's also an issue when we talk about godparents in baptism because it's not too different in that regards.
So, you know, in short, a a sponsor of someone who is committing, you know, through life to walk with this person in their faith journey. And I mean that's as simple as you can as you can look at it. Is a sponsor or does it have to be older? No, I don't think it has to be someone who's older. I, I love intergenerational relationships. I think those have a place in youth ministry, in ministry with young people.
But you know, when I'm looking at the definition here, it it's not, you know, throughout the years I've done confirmation prep with people. I've seen sibling relationships where you know, someone's maybe 2 years older than their sibling receiving it, where it's that's a great sponsor relationship, cousins, classmates, you know, maybe someone received it a little bit sooner than the other.
And again, I don't want to diminish like adults, but the intergenerational relationship is valuable for sure. But I don't think that's necessary for a. Sponsor. So a sponsor doesn't have to be. Yeah, it can. It can be in in that but but yeah. But I will say you you use the keyword mature and not to confuse maturity with age, but maturity is definitely it needs to be someone who is mature in
their faith. Yeah, Yep. Absolutely. Well, and I love how you highlighted just, I mean, Canon law highlights, but I like that you put a spotlight on it, that it's, it's a lifelong commitment that this isn't merely ceremonial, right, That that the role of the sponsor is to walk with them after confirmation. And that's just been such a common theme in all the conversations we've been having is that that need for accompaniment in especially in the confirmation process.
So talk to us about like what would be your tips on better leveraging that sponsor relationship? Yeah. I mean, I think that's a great question because I think it's not so simple as what we can do individually. One of the reasons why like I'm glad you guys were talking about this is because I think we have to be talking about this, you know, on a larger level, whether it's nationally or, you know, even beyond that.
Because I think we have tinkered too much with confirmation prep where we, I think we have to go back on a national level, but also in our churches and, and try to re educate people on what
it means to be a sponsor. And so, you know, to really go back when you're looking at baptismal prep, you know, and talking to the parents about the vision and the path that they have for their kids, you know, and not just with godparents, but saying like, hey, down the line, when they receive confirmation, you know, you want to make sure that there are men and women in their lives that exemplify their faith. And those are people that you want them to, to pick to be their sponsor. Right.
If, if, if we're going to make confirmation prep a point where young people are making decisions, one of those big decisions is picking who that that person is that's going to accompany them along this lifelong journey.
So I think, I think when we have to kind of educate people on that from a parish standpoint, I think when you have these initial information meetings for confirmation prep or even OCIA or, you know, things along those lines, it's, it's talking about that, yes, family is great because I think there's that built in the fact that we're going to see family, you know, a lot more family is accessible, friends are accessible and everything like that. But it's also encourage them to
look at people in the parish. And so if they're like, well, I don't really know anyone, then ask them the question like how involved are you? And, and when I mean ask them, I mean parents and, and students as well, like if they're not involved in small groups, if they're not involved in ministry or outreach, they're not surrounding themselves with other mature Catholics in their Catholic faith.
And so I think if you're a DREA youth minister, confirmation coordinator, pastor, listening to this or watching this, I think it's essential for you to say, like, how are you creating community so that people in our congregation are interacting with other Catholics who are exemplifying their faith? Because I'll tell you what, Like when a parent comes to me and says, Chris, I'm really struggling to find a sponsor for my son or my daughter, I'm like, well, is there someone in the
parish that you know of? And when that light bulb goes off where they're like, oh, yeah, I serve with so and so, or there's this other family, then it kind of opens that up. And that was something where personally, I think, Andy, I was sharing this with you. My, my, my oldest son just got confirmed a couple weeks ago. And that was a huge conversation in our family was who his sponsor was going to be.
And he ended up picking his middle school small group later, Brian, And which was really exciting because here was someone that my son felt was speaking into his life about faith. He was someone that my wife and I already knew and had trust with. And, you know, yeah, it was just kind of exciting for him to pick someone that was in the church that he's going to see a lot more because just, you know, a little bit of context. My wife and I are from out outside the Baltimore area.
All of our family lives, you know, hours away. And so for our son to have someone who's accessible and nearby was just was rewarding in that way. Yeah. Yeah, that's. Great. I mean, this, this Harkins back to, to some of the conversation we were having around the research that says young people need 5 faithful witnesses to invest in them, accompany them in order to, to have faith
coming out of college. And so the, the sponsor role, what I'm hearing from you is that it's, it's not like a, a title, you know, in, in like, oh, this is, this is somebody who's cool, but rather I see Christ at work in you and, and I want to learn more of that. Yeah, yeah. It, it, it's definitely not a title and kind of going back to the original question too of what we can do. I think we have to stop, not stop.
But I, I think it's good to bring parents along the process and confirmation, but really kind of put focus our investment in the sponsors as well. Like we invest in the kids. I think that's important. Invest in the students, invest in the candidate, but invest in the sponsors too. Because you know, it's kind of like, Hey, congratulations, you got asked to be a sponsor. And 1st question sponsors will ask is, well, what does that mean?
What do I do? And, you know, often times we're just like, just hang tight and we'll tell you when rehearsal in the mass is right. And and then it's like good luck where I think it's kind of like, OK, how do we help them through that? And so, you know, one of the ways that one of the ways that my parishes have done that, so a nativity, we had a mentoring program where can't. And as much as I love that program, we didn't do this as effectively with sponsors as we should have.
But one of the things that we did with the candidates is the candidates met one on two or two on one with someone we call the mentor. And those mentors met with the candidates about 6 times throughout the preparation. And those mimicked what a sponsor relationship looked like because we wanted candidates to know what it meant to like meet with someone you know individually with their faith
and and grow in that. We never did a great job of translating that over to this is what you should do with your sponsor. But like we at least introduce them to that. When I was at Saint Joe's, what we really started to do was cater a lot of our materials and our content to sponsors. And so initially, like you cannot sign up. I mean, you could, but we really wanted you to name and have your contact information of your sponsor before the whole process began.
And so sponsors were a part of the process right from the very beginning, you know, before the retreat, because we want sponsors to know this is what we're doing on the retreat, right? Letters to your candidates on the retreat and then. We would take breaks in our classes or our small groups with the candidates where the sponsors were just meant to meet with the candidates and we provided materials. My team and I were accessible
for sponsors. You needed coaching or training on like how to talk to them about their faith. And we really, really emphasize that sponsors take your your candidates out for a bite to eat or a cup of coffee or go for a walk or just, you know, something that was natural and casual to talk about their faith.
You know, if it was an aunt and her uncle or a grandparent that lived, you know, across the country, we talked about what that looked like on Zoom, but then take advantage during those holidays when you were in person in that regards. And so we started to cater a lot of our training towards sponsors and candidates, how they interacted so that they would continue those relationships beyond confirmation prep.
And but that wasn't something we could do overnight because the concept when we first introduced it was so foreign that people kind of scoffed at it or mailed it in and everything like that. And was something overtime where we kind of had to just slowly build that into the culture. And so probably about, you know, eight years of doing that at my last parish, we started to see a little bit more of that engagement than we took in the 1st. Years for this cultural reality
to set in for you. To get to where, sorry to get to where it needed to be, but like you know, there's still a lot more. And I think that's also another mistake that we make in confirmation prep is we think we can make the change within a year or or two or three. Yeah, Yep, yeah. And then what? I'm just curious as this cultural norm set in, what what stirred in the parish beyond just the young people and people, potential sponsors. Is there something else that was
there? Yes and no. You know, because here's the thing. He's gonna. Say something edgy, here it comes, I'm ready for it. The whole parish has to buy into this kind of concept. So at my first parish there was that buy in and you saw more of an investment in youth ministry
and next generation ministry. At my second parish saw some of that transformation in the youth and children's ministry because when we started to really clarify that people could be more than just a catechist that shows up on Sunday and teaches the faith, you saw a little bit more of buying and ownership, unfortunately. And you know, I love it. It's my current parish today and everything like that.
I love it and everything. There just isn't the same investment in that that you see elsewhere. So even though we were seeing a change in the way that we did confirmation prep and we were seeing, I, I will say the one fruit that we were able to see is retention of young people in our ministry. They weren't dropping off after, that's a major, but like for the rest of the congregation since it wasn't cascaded and communicated throughout, you'd have to look hard to see some of those fruits.
Sure. So I'm thinking about people listening to this like the BI vocational youth minister, the person who has a day job and is running the youth ministry and confirmation prep at their their parish or they're in a parish where you say like there's just not the buy in. What is something they can do? Because you're talking about, and we're all talking about how culture change takes a really long time, which is true. So what's something practical
they can do right now? Yeah, You know, if you and, and if you've got a, a small team, whether you have, you know, 20 candidates or 200 candidates, if you have a small team, the best thing you can do is train that team to train sponsors. That's the easiest, simple, most scalable and affordable way to do that Because, listen, parents are already invested in the sponsors. Sponsors are already invested in
the family. And, you know, there's probably less hoops to jump through with how and when they can meet. They can arrange that to their schedule. And so if I were to start over again in a parish where let's just say I had four people who were on my confirmation team, I would have those four people develop a caseload of X amount of people that were sponsors or families.
And their job was wasn't necessarily to teach the faith in a classroom setting, but to give sponsors the materials that they needed to meet one-on-one or, you know, in whatever kind of saying with the parents and the kid, you know, to help them grow in their faith. I think that would be. I would build my program around that kind of framework. That's great. I have a potentially weird question because. Is it about chicken? Nope. OK, have you ever had to fire a
sponsor? Oh yeah, I mean, there have been good. Question. I mean, you know, it's it's kind of like once in a while you'll get, hey, we picked so and so and you're like, oh, who are they? And they're like, oh, it's my aunt who is was, you know, raised in the Catholic faith, but now is a Wiccan, or I mean. That'd be a bad sponsored. Yeah. And that's where you're just like, well, that's not really the point.
The point is not finding someone who you know, like and, and and that's where you're just like, hey, it's a good person. This is a great person, you know, but this is not what we're looking for in regards to a sponsor. You know, it's really hard when people come back to you and they want like a step parent or, you know, something along those lines where you're just kind of like, yeah, they're not technically your parents, but it's still kind of that parental
role. And you're really trying to, like what I tried to do is really push people to think beyond, you know, and granted, it's, it's written out in the right and what not what, who and what you should choose, but like really trying to expand people to think about someone that helps them grow in their Catholic faith. There's been once or twice where there's a sponsor who I'm just like, this person's just mailing it in.
And it's not like you fire them because you can't really fire a sponsor, but you can, you can really challenge and encourage the candidate to, to reconsider who they pick. And, and that's the other thing too, is like, even though you want them part of the whole preparation process, I told candidates like you might go through this three months and be like, this is not the right person for me, but so, and so is that's OK. Like figure it out, you know,
now. And even if that person ends up like walking away from the faith two weeks after you received confirmation, at least you know what you're looking for now in a sponsor, right? And and so again, like the whole, the whole idea of having a sponsor is, is someone who's going to help you walk in faith and get to know Christ and, and, and just continue to grow as a disciple of Jesus Christ.
So, so you're, you're playing the long game, you're, you're looking at this much in a, in a larger context. And you know, for that youth minister or that parent that was asked to do confirmation this year, this is an opportunity to, to pull in some additional mentors to, to have this ongoing
accompaniment. And in part of what the, the the confirmation leader is, is trying to do is help these sponsors and and parents have conversations of faith and life and build relationship so that long term, even after the sacrament in that Mister Goji period, people can, can continue growing, asking questions when they go to college, when they something comes up in life and they're struggling. Where are you God? They have someone to turn to and
process. Yeah. I mean, you're talking too much sense though. I mean, it's like, you know, if there's 10, sorry, go ahead. No. No, no, I think it's it's I think it's also fair to say this is clearly the better way, but it's a harder way. And oh, oh, you're giving me a face like it might not be harder. It's, it's not, it's, it's one of those things where we think
it's harder. But it's like, you know, if I were to walk in to a parish and sit down with a, a youth minister or Dre who's really on the fringes and said, hey, listen, let's just slow this down. I mean, and I'm giving you permission. Your pastor's giving you permission, your Bishop's giving you permission to slow this down. I think so many people would just like start crying, you know, and you know, then saying where can we get some really good chicken? Because I just need to give it a
feeling. No, but in all seriousness, it's I think it's like one of those things where people would embrace that. And so if there's one message that I would just want to get out there and I feel like I need to get it out there is like, let's just stop tinkering with confirmation so that we can play the long game. And it's just like, if, if anything, just stop trying to move something around that it really doesn't help.
And in fact, I'd say the more we make these drastic changes like changing the age of confirmation, changing some of the the the guidelines and things like that, I think it actually causes more damage and sets us back farther than than anything else that we would do. Because the focus is an outcome and not on the person. You got it. Yeah, Yeah. OK.
Can you tell us a story, as you've embraced the slower approach that you're just like, that is a story I hang onto that makes me realize that this is a better way to kind of go about doing confirmation. For me, like there was this one student I had in my first parachute at Nativity and he, you know, he, he was, he was somewhat involved in everything like that, but, you know, hit college really kind of struggled with some things, some some really big life issues and, and
everything. And I had stayed in touch with him, you know, just because I had developed a good relationship. But when he really started to struggle, you know, one of the, when I was checking in, I was like, who are you talking to? One of the names he mentioned was his confirmation sponsor. And I was just like, this was like 6-7 years after he had received the sacrament. And, and so for me, like, you know, I've heard a, a couple of
those stories. And so, like, it's not I, I take joy in the fact that anytime I meet a former student, whether they're now in their 30s or their 20s or, you know, just even a couple years after and they talk about still having a relationship was someone that was introduced to them in, in, in youth ministry, whether it's a small group leader or a sponsor or something along those lines. You know, I, I, I just think that's, that's beautiful, right?
Because what that means that that's affirmation for for myself and the team and what we were trying to do, you know, that that's fruit to the fact that we were trying to create opportunities where young people could meet other Christ followers, where they can meet people who could walk with them in faith. And the fact that they still have these relationships with those people, just just it's so rewarding in that aspect. And so, yeah, for me, I'd say that's like one of those ultimate.
Ultimate wins and you can't force a relationship, but you can set the environment for it, right? That's what you did. You set the environment and it it grew because there's a desire on both ends there. Yeah. Exactly. That's beautiful, man. Thanks. So question for you, all of this experience that you have and again very recent experience, if you could go back and do anything differently when it comes to confirmation, what,
what would that be? If I were to go back and change anything, I think I think at my first parish I would have emphasized sponsors a little bit more. That was something that I, I, you know, it didn't really come come to understand until, you know, my last couple years there. And I think the mentorship program that you know, is described in rebuilding confirmation and and whatnot, I think I would have emphasize
that a little bit earlier. And that's why I think leveraging the sponsor is so key because that's not someone that I'm necessarily saying, hey, here's someone you can entrust your kids with. That's something that the family and the parent is putting it in. So if you want to put more ownership on the, on the parents, it's asking them to help their young person pick a sponsor that you can give materials to and have them evaluate whether this is
fruitful or not in that regards. And so I think I would have, you know, going back, if there were one thing that I would change or emphasize more, it's that especially now having gone through this as a parent, you know, even though it was very clear who my son was going to pick and everything like that, I, I recognized it was kind of tough to walk through this with Brian and, and just be like, Hey, this is what you should do
with my son. And you know, like this is, these are the expectations that we have as parents. This is the expectation that he has. What are your expectations and things along those lines? And so, yeah, I mean, I think I would have clarified that more, but I, I don't know. Again, I know that now. I don't think I would have known that without going through some of these successes and failures. For sure. So can you talk to us about practically how we can
incorporate sponsors? Volunteer running confirmation? Maybe a person that is a mom that has their own kids and is like, oh I want this to work really well, but I know sponsors important. I don't know what to do. What do I? Do yeah, what's something practical they can do to to pull the sponsors into the process?
Yeah, I think it's if you're a volunteer, especially like don't do the classes and give all that curriculum and material to the sponsors, not to the parents, to the sponsors and make yourself accessible to the sponsors, right. And so if mom or dad are struggling to help their young person find a sponsor, you know, go around your congregation and find people who might be willing to be a sponsor.
You know, that's that's an, and you know, even talk to your pastor about it too, you know, and just say like, Hey, are there this family is really struggling to find a sponsor. Is there anyone in the parish that you know, that I could sit down with and maybe sit down with this family with and help them find a sponsor And and then, you know, and then tell people like, Hey, listen, let's if if we can't figure this out, let's spend the next year to figure this out so your child
can get confirmed next year. You know, I think that's the other thing. Now I know people are hearing that and saying that sounds great, Chris, you know, but that's just impossible because someone's going to say, my kid needs to get confirmed now and everything like that. But I think it's like, even if you can't communicate to that person, you still have to have that conversation.
And that goes back to what I was saying before with where this takes years to do that is guiding people, you know, protecting the sacrament, yet making it accessible to people. It just takes years and years of communicating that culture to them and not creating like, you know, a, a, a line that divides, but more of like, all right, if it didn't work with this person where they're like, no, no thanks. I just want to rush through this then, you know, OK, that's one
thing. But the more you communicate that and create that into the culture and put that, you know, in your literature when people are registering for confirmation and your information meetings and your training meetings and your confirmation retreat, whatever it might be, just make sure you're you're communicating this vision over and over and over again and you will see those changes take place.
Well, I love your idea of having almost a pool of potential sponsors for people who are struggling. Like, hey, there's this great person in the parish who wants to be engaged with young people somehow. Here's a really practical way they can do that. It's a great way to leverage not just sponsors, but the rest of the parish community. I think that's a great idea.
Well, and Annie, going back to that too, one of the first names that I always ask people too is like, well, what about their catechists from, you know, elementary school, you know, elementary age or, you know, even like this is one of the reasons why I, I think it is a horrible idea. When people combine youth ministry with confirmation prep, they are two separate things. They should never be they, they should complement one another, but they should not be dependent
on one another. And that's where, again, like my son was able to find his middle school small group leader to be his confirmation sponsor because they were totally separate programs. And he saw Brian not as his teacher, but as a sponsor, someone who could walk with him in his faith. And so I think that's a I'd rather see parishes and diocese put the effort into creating separate ministries between confirmation and youth ministry and children's ministry, then moving the age around in that
regards. I want to go back to, to something you said and frankly, a mistake I made for a long time, which was I collected the, the sponsors and got that information right before I needed to make the certificates that, that that's a fail. And also then there's, you know, people forget. So you're like down to the wire and it's messy. But what you're saying is at the very beginning, clarify the expectation of the sponsors.
What what kind of person it's, it's a disciple and, and then what, what they're going to be involved in this process to the sacrament and after so that that clear expectation and, and then finding a way within the the, the preparation to set the table for that, that relationship that that Jordan was talking about to begin to flourish, right? That that soil is tilled.
And now you're helping have the the confirmation in the in the teen like, like have questions to hear like about their like tell me about your faith journey. What what was your confirmation? Like? What was your confirmation saying you're you're priming the pump to to help nurture those those conversations?
Yeah, you know, and, and yeah, I appreciate you saying that 'cause it also makes me think about the fact that, you know, if you can't, if they can't pick their sponsors before they sign up for confirmation, then make the first part of confirmation prep them finding a sponsor, right. If we're preparing these young people for confirmation, the, the role of sponsor is really to start taking place after
receiving the sacrament. So, you know, why aren't we making that a part of the preparation process of like how do you find, you know, and and this, this. Is a little bit different than what I'm doing, but I'm just kind of thinking about aloud is like, you know, how why aren't we sitting down with kids and teen or teens and, and parents or candidates and parents and saying like, this is what you need to look for in a sponsor, you know?
And so your first assignment in confirmation prep is to find that sponsor and then and have that conversation with that sponsor about what he or she is meant to do. And and then to your point, yeah, like tell them it's witnessing the faith, it's reminding them of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. You know, it's things like that.
I mean, if confirmation prep was really just focused on preparing the sponsor to, you know, walk with that candidate, I think that would just be that that would be just as impactful as having the sponsor there right at the beginning. Well, Chris, thank you so much. This has been. Amazing. Yeah, great, great conversation. Where can people find you? So easiest place to find me is
Marathon youthministry.com. That's our website on social media at Marathon Youth Ministry or some variation of that, especially on Instagram or Facebook and, and LinkedIn. You can just look for me, Christopher Wesley there. But Marathon youthministry.com is the best place to go and you can sign up for newsletter and hear more of my thoughts and and feelings on things like confirmation as well as other things about church as well. All right, my man.
So we're going to end with the last question which we've asked every guest so far and we are going to compare your answer for seven us, I'm just kidding, we're not. But what is your one piece of advice to every listener that's listening to this regarding confirmation? And it doesn't have to be about sponsors, it give me anything. My piece of advice is play the long game, you know, going back
to what Jason was saying. So it's really Jason's advice, you know, but don't be frustrated if you don't reach the mountaintop and you're one, you're 2, you're three. If you're a pastor, you know, recognize that this is a long term investment. So help your Youth minister Dre by investing in a community where people can find sponsors or just role models or and nurture that faith beyond confirmation. Awesome. Thank you so much. You've been such a gift.
Thank you for bringing your whole self to this and thanks for your passion for young people, for especially middle schoolers and and just for rallying the church together to love young people really well. Appreciate you man. Hey, not a problem. Thank you all and keep having these conversations. I love that, you know, I love that you guys are talking about this subject and other things. There's not enough resources for youth ministers out there.
And so like I, I just love that you're all partnering together to do this. So keep it up. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Chris. That was, that was a great conversation. I just, I, I really respect Chris's perspective. You know, one of the things he was saying about like give yourself, give yourself a chance
to slow down. It's actually one of the things that I that he specifically inspired me to do in confirmation when I read that book, he's like, if you're spending all of your time tracking like requirements down that they're not doing, is that really the best stewardship? And I'm almost certain that's the word he uses stewardship. And I, I took that book. I literally walked in with that book into my DRE's office and I said can we stop?
What's the book called again? Rebuilding confirmation get it on Amazon and my my Dre looked at me and said yes, because it was my time and it was our administrative assistants time spent hours of tracking this stuff down. So just love that, that permission to just slow down and
and and stop for a minute. And this has been a common theme for us as we've talked to different people and probably people you will hear about, but then also people that we've talked to individually about confirmations, like what are you doing? It's like we had to slow down. Yeah, reexamine it. Yeah, we've made it this machine and it's like it's not bearing the fruit that we.
Have well, I think one thing too that we should probably say out loud when we've, I think we've said this before, but we make sure we say, especially when this topic comes up about slowing down is you have to give permission to yourself to slow down. The outcome isn't the measure of your value in ministry. And so there are a lot of things that only Jesus can control. And so when we take the posture of handing over control, sometimes it looks like slowing down. And that's good.
It's good for our own souls, but it's also going to be really good for the people that are in the ministry that we're holding, yeah. So and if you have a savior complex like I did where you're controlling all. Of you to me at this. Point where, where, where, where? Frankly, like I, I was very happy to be the person up front doing all the work, doing all the teaching, doing all the because I'm going to save these young people. And it wasn't bad.
It wasn't a fashion thing. It wasn't like it wasn't like mischievous or but it just yeah, it. Was misplaced like I and I can say that I'm not saying that to you, I'm saying that to my younger youth totally self, yeah. I would say it's every youth minister. But now, Now, now what we're hearing is, oh, actually, we want to help other people, invest in young people, be witnesses.
And so if you're, if you're got another job and you're doing this confirmation preparation, delegate, empower, pull in, remind parents, remind sponsors that, oh, if you're looking for me to do all of this, you're at the wrong place. My job is to help you have these conversations that that happen now and later. And I think one of the important things he was was getting at is, is just that when it comes to sponsors, it's an opportunity for ministry leaders to multiply
themselves, right? Because one youth minister by vocational minister, Dre Pastor cannot accompany 150 confirmation students. So how do we bring more adults in and empower them to be Co youth ministers and, and sponsors are a perfect place to do that. And it doesn't have to be complicated. It doesn't have to be onerous on their time.
It just has to be intentional. All right, so we would just went through this whole thing together and I want you guys to go back to your younger selves of when you were running confirmation and think of the times when you were freaking out. Like I have to do confirmation now. And Jason, you're like, what? Really like confirmation? You hear this podcast. What would you do? What would you tell your younger
self to do in that moment? Yeah, I think, I think getting very clear expectations for the parents and the sponsors that that's upfront and then having a conversation. So that's on like the website that's on, you know, whatever the registration is and then having a conversation with them around this. You know, so it's like in some of this, it doesn't have to be complicated, right, Because
people are busy. We're not asking the sponsor to, to, but you know what, the sponsor should be going to mass. And so, hey, why don't you go to mass with this person? You're a company, you know, oh, you're going to have a meal. Well, invite that student over to share a meal.
Everybody's got to eat. So we don't have to like overthink it. We just want to nurture this relationship and and simple things you can do whatever the the the discussion questions that are happening, have those conversations continue with the sponsor. So what I hear you saying is increase intentionality ahead of the confirmation prep and then almost create like a list, not a list, but expectations on how to get the most out of being a sponsor. Being a sponsor is amazing.
Here's how you can get the most out of it in the relationship with when you're sponsoring. Yeah, OK. And pray for that student, like like that's probably the number one thing, right? Like how are we lifting them up through this journey? Yeah, OK, so that's what Jason would do. Annie, what about you? And this is 24 year old Annie. This is 24 year old Annie in an. Youth ministry, all of a sudden I have to do confirmation. Mostly her wardrobe choices, but I'd like to start.
There can we get a picture or two of that that? 'D be fun. Gosh. That's never crossed my mind. Yeah, wardrobe choices. Yeah, we don't think about that. No, I. Think one of the things that I would do in listening to this is help be be a bridge for young people and families in finding sponsors so frequently. I would get that like I I don't have a lot of Catholic family members. We just moved here. We just moved here and I don't have a lot of Catholic family members.
Like instead of just being like deal or ask your small group leader, like look bigger, look at the community and say, Hey, can I connect you with somebody and, and be that bridge and be that multiplier rather than putting it all on myself. And then when things didn't go well, putting it all on them. Yeah, that's good. So you can you how would you practically do that? Cuz you can have the desire for it. How would you practically become that bridge? What would you need to shift and
adjust to do that? Started those conversations earlier, just like what Jason was saying on the front end and Chris made a good point of making it at least the first part of confirmation prep. Like let's be talking about what you should be looking for. Talk about it every chance you can with the students, talk about it every chance you can with the parents. These are the kind of qualities
you're looking for. If you don't have somebody like this in your life, I would love to introduce you to Jerry, who's in our community and and would love to be a sponsor. So clear communication, earlier communication. Is the role of a sponsor largely, and this is a question, is it largely like one of the hidden secrets of confirmation or the things that if we got this right, fruit would be wild?
Or is this a we got some we got some adjustments guys, but there's other bigger things that we have to get to. I know it's a big thing, but I'm saying like I. I think it's it's got huge potential. I think we have not. I have not used sponsors well. And I think there's also an opportunity for the sponsor to grow in faith. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause it is reciprocal. Like any mentor person, they always will tell their mentor is that the right word? Mentor that I get I. Could do it righter.
Oh yeah, thanks. That they get more out of it than than than the person I'm mentoring. That I've all every great relationship I've seen, including my own. That's the been the conversation. So, OK, so Jason, you're saying like, yeah, there's a ton here that we could do. All right, my friend. So this has been a great conversation. Sponsorship, not Chick-fil-A. It's he people. It's all about people. And as you're picking up these conversations, leaning in, be gentle to yourself. Go slow.
You're going to hear that theme a lot and pay attention to what the Holy Spirit's doing, the things He's doing in your heart, and definitely pay attention to the young people around you. And let's chat soon.