I got a team. It's a laughing Tiff and a smiling Bobby and me in the middle of both of them. Well, not literally or virtually, I should say, we don't need a Craig Tiff and Bobby sandwich. That'd be fucking tasty, wouln't it? Definitely? Oh no, don't care. There. Hi everyone, Hi Bobby, Let's start with you. Hi, Bobby, Hey, Greg? Much better response time, well done, straight away, so proud,
so proud. Tiffany and Cook sent me a message at at ten fifty seven, recording time eleven, saying can I be five minutes late?
I would like you to start with the beginning of this story. Now that you've brought that up. Great, what have I twenty minutes that?
Well, I may or may not have informed you that Bobby, in his selfishness, had moved the time another day.
All right.
It might have been Bobby and I or maybe even mostly me, And the thought was, well, I did look at the thing, and it didn't say that you were on this show.
Actually it did.
That is a fib not when I look at it. Whoa jumbo speaking.
To contesting all the details of this story? All right, I'm hearing about this all right? Now that I have all the evidence, I'm going to make a deliberation. You're both at fault. Let's carry on.
Bobby, if you just said before we started recording your four dollars ninety nine per minute voice, could you I see is that? What is that? What? Ladies?
The joke there?
Well, I didn't know. I don't know. Is that how much? Who gets paid that?
To do?
What? Just to talk to desperate men or something?
Yeah? Oh do they?
Why?
Hi?
John? How should open that?
Exactly exactly? It sounded just like me?
Then?
How are you feeling? Oh? God? Could you imagine? Sorry? Sorry, the John's out there that do that. I'm being a bit insensitive. But anyway, what's the lady that you call? What's her name? Again? Bobby? You told me? Is it parents? Time?
Or money? For that?
I don't respond from Brooklyn by any chance?
Are you forget about it?
Well? Now I want to talk about today.
I got some I got some time back in my day.
Well, the podcast will go for twenty minutes less if you fucking reduce your response times, that's for sure. How come the podcast takes two hours? Have you listened to the gaps? Or should I say the non speaking sections anyway, that's all right, we love you. So I want to talk today about something that often is the case where it's a flow on out of a conversation I had,
which was this morning with someone around. We're talking about the way that we use our energy, our energy, our personal like Craigtiff, Bobby, it's not an infinite resource, it's not limitless. We hit the wall, we get tired, we're fucked. We've got to sleep, we've got to stop, we've got to slow down, we've got to hit the pause button. And so it would seem that how we use our energy in terms of what we want to do be, create, change, move,
achieve matters a lot. And I am a person who has been both very productive with my time and energy and also very wasteful at times. So I want to start now. This is going to require both of you to give it a little bit of thought and be brave because I want to go deep and I might throw my bit in as well. But so question one for both of you is how do you both currently
waste energy? What is a thing or what is a habit or a ritual or an unconscious thing that you do that you recognize is not a good use of time or.
Energy counting not counting cat videos on Instagram.
Well, I'll leave that up to you. You might see that as part of your therapy, which God knows you need. So if it's meeting some kind of emotional or psychological or mental health need, what's your wait? If what's what for you?
Scrolling social media? I'm an issue with it at the moment with myself, like I want to I want to get rid of it a lot. I think I'm going to take it off my phones again.
But I've heard you say that ten times, like how are you going to do? Like this is the thing and I've done the same thing, right, So I'm not throwing you under the bus because I feel like a lot of us recognize things that we currently do that's not not valuable, essentially a waste of energy and time. Yet we don't proactively do anything for longer than three days and then we go back to what we did, Like what would your plan be? Firstly, if I said
not your plan? B your plan A? Like if I said to you, do you want to stop that scrolling for like a week or a month or forever? Like still using your phone? But just not burning time and energy on mindless scrolling. I'm guessing you would say, I want that to be a permanent change, right, yes, So what does that look like for you? Like, how do you actually when you've probably got like me and I'm guessing Cat video Man years of scrolling behaviors, like even
for me, I do it less. Honestly, I do do it quite a bit less, but I still do it. I still So what's your plan like, because I'm asking this because firstly, listeners, there's no set plan that's going to work for everyone. But I think everyone listening or eighty percent will go yeah, that's me as well. So how do we actually change it? Not just talk about it?
So one of the first things I've started doing, which I did for a long time and then stopped, Like we find reasons to stop for a week, we like, yeah, so phone out of the room at night, because then you can't pick it up in the morning. You have to think about it, and it has to be a deliberate action to go and get it to do that. So if I don't sleep with it in my room of a night, which stopped because I would be chatting to Scottie of a night, so I'd have my phone
and talk to him and pop in bed. We'd keep chatting and then I'd hang up, So then it's there. And then that I used to my sleep improved a lot when I took it out of my room, so I've reinstated that, Like I can keep my headphones on and put the phone in the kitchen and hep in bed and still talk and then when the phone call hangs up, it disconnects. Yes, So that's that's the first thing. And the other thing I think is in your relationship with social media and just getting honest about the cost
of it and then putting barriers in place. Like I've used apps they don't work because they work for a little while, but then I end up switching them off for just to go do one quick thing. It's hard because I use it for business, I use it for posting reels, I use it for engagement on my podcast. But I've got other devices, and for a period of time, I took the apps off my phone. So if I wanted to access Facebook, I had to use the URL like the meat web browser, and that worked amazingly.
But then why do you stop? Why did you stop?
Because I changed back to an old phone because my phone's crapped itself, and now and then I've just gotten back straight back into the old habit and away we're young.
M all right, let's go back and forth a bit. But Bobby, what do you waste time on? Rumination?
Yeah? I ruminate a lot? Yeah?
Yeah? Is there a main focus or is it anything?
Oh? Proa Now it's it's it's when I think I've done something that is going to let somebody down. I've noticed that's a big trigger. It's like, well, what if I did this? What if I did that? Like even when we were moving, like we're in the process of moving right now, and it's like every decision is hmm, would have been a better decision if I had done this versus do that? Should I have moved here or should I have moved there?
Ah?
Well, what would happen if you know, I chose this call the scheme versus? And it's all around what if somebody is not completely happy? Or what if I'm not optimizing my environment and I'm not as productive as it could be, and then I let somebody else down? And it's like that's kind of interesting.
Psychologically, what is what is itotential answer or pot answer to that, like that seems like a big one. That seems like an unconscious, almost involuntary river that you're swimming in and it's controlling you. You're not controlling in.
Yeah, if I had to guess this is just again my perspective, it could be a lot because this is complicated. Maybe it's the fact that it's approval seeking may or maybe it comes from you know, and we talked about
this on the show before. Maybe it comes from where if I did something wrong or got disapproval, even in the slightest way, the punishments were extreme, and I've gotten a lot better at that because now I recognize I was like, oh, this isn't me, this is my rumination, Like it's not Bobby sitting here going back and forth. Somewhere around fifty percent of the time, I can now recognize, no, no, no,
this is just how I'm prois in the situation. This is just a condition response in me to where before one of the time it's like, oh my goodness, why are you like this? I'm not. So I'm getting better at this progressively, far from what I need to be. But those are possible root causes.
Do you think that we Yeah, do you think that most of our energy wasting? I kind of hate to think how much energy and time and not that I don't think any of life's not about productivity and efficiency and box sticking and constantly meeting the requirements of the to do list and then we look up and where ad and we're fucked. But geez, we've been productive but miserable. Right,
So of course it's a balance. But do you think most of the stuff that we regret, like I regret wasting a lot of time on social media and a little bit like you may be looking for approval because I was insecure or because of all my own bullshit. But do you think that's conscious or unconscious? I feel like maybe I'm like, we're kind of aware of it, but in the moment, we're not aware. TI.
I think that's I think that's true. I mean, there's a lot that we you know, we might be consciously aware of, but human behavior is so complex that if you take a look at the things that we're aware of, there's probably a lot more underneath the surface that not only are we not aware of, we would never even consider it. I know I've talked about this particular book I've talked about Sapolski's book Determined and Behaved. Those two books,
while not an easy read, is a fascinating reader. And if you could go through those two books and still believe you understand everything about why you do something, or even funnier, why somebody else does something, read those books again, it's it's fascinating. I think there's also not just this unconscious element of why we do things we don't want to do, but what's the payoff?
Somewhere?
Tiffany staying up and not removing those apps from her phone is getting a benefit from scrolling on social media because I used to do the same thing. I had my apps on you know, completely different device. Then I had to go away for a while and then bring that device. So I put all my apps back on my main phone. I haven't taken them off, and I was markedly better. So somewhere there's a benefit there for me. Yes, it's conditioning and I've been doing it for a while,
but there's a benefit in my rumination. There's a benefit in my self flagillation, there's a benefit in my scrolling, and I think that creates ambivalence and in both of those the things that we don't want, the consequences and the benefits we're getting. There's elements that are conscious, and then there's also elements that we have no idea.
Yeah. Yeah. The other day I was at office works for our American friends and international friends. That's you know those joints. I don't know is that international or only Australian TIF Bobby, do you have office works over there?
I believe we do. Yeah.
It's like a great, big joint that supplies no office works is like a big giant Oh. Actually yeah, everything from whiteboard markers to desks, to computers, phones, like it's the one stop shopped, even bloody coffee for the staff room. Yeah. Anyway, I was there and I was buying some other stuff, and I was looking at some dumb phones. They call them dumb phones. I don't have. They're officially called that. But it's an analog phone or whatever that is. Is
that the right term? Analog? Anyway, it's got no Internet access. It's not you know, can't you can't look at any you can't put apps on it, you can't look at it doesn't get emails. It's like it's a phone. It's got big numbers, and I bought one for the old man. He doesn't know this yet, but anyway, I bought one, and I thought, this is what I should have. I should have so not all the time, but half my day I use this number, and the eight people in the world who have to have to be able to
have access to me, they have this number. But I can't get distracted because it doesn't do anything. So then my thought is to put go to the cafe, do my bizo between kind of six and eight, then turn that phone off, then turn the other one on till about four, and then I've got eight hours through the day where I can't pick and put that phone somewhere else and turn it off, and then people can still contact me or reach me, but I can't get distracted. What do you think of that, Tiff as a concept.
I love it because I always think of remember how we've talked about how if you're for even if your phone is off, if it's in the same room as you have ten percent cognitive decline. So I think about, even if there's not apps on the phone, your relationship up to this point is that device has all of this in it and the potential for it where when that's not there, the thoughts like when it's not in the bedroom, I can't help my brain looked for it.
The first time I ever removed it from my bedroom, I would have these I wouldn't recognize my brain going, oh, we've got to know this or we've got to do that a reason to pick it up and look something up or write something down, and I was like, no, it's not it. We can't go to sleep, brain.
Yeah. Yeah, Anyway, That's something I'm thinking about because I need something that's practical, because otherwise I'll just like something that means I actually can't access it, because I don't know that with that, mister willpower, I don't know that I have the willpower or that in the moment awareness, Like I'm picking it up and looking at shit, and I know I've made a decision, but I don't feel like I've made a decision, you know what I mean.
It's like it's just I know it's not unconscious, but it kind of feels like it.
All right.
So my next question for both of you is, so, when you are in more of a conscious space, how do you decide where to invest your energy physical, mental, emotional energy and maybe how to allocate that in terms of some kind of productivity hierarchy or whatever, like do you make conscious decisions about your emotional, energetic, and even time investment? Bobby?
Yeah, And it depends on what I've got on day to day, Because I, like you, things pop up. I mean, all three of us, we're two weeks from now. My day could look very different now versus three days from now. When somebody puts a request then, but I'll ask myself. I find that questions are more powerful for me then determined statements. Okay, I'm going to focus on this where it's like, okay, what is the single most important thing I need to do today if I did nothing else,
what one thing has the highest payoff if done? And the flip side of that is what one thing has the greatest consequences if not done? Because I get distracted very easily. So I could have ten things on my to do list, but one of them matters most to my career, to my job, my organization, and three of them it's like, oh wow, I need to get this done. But if I don't do it today, the consequences are well, not that much, if any at all. So that's an easy one for.
Me, And what's the mental sorry, what's the mental and emotional pathway to that being? Like? None, I'm doing it now. I'm not talking about it with some friends. I'm doing it like I feel like if there was no choice, Like if magically, all of a sudden, you know, iPhones and apps and the like weren't a thing we go ah and in a week, we'd adapt because they're not there anymore. So we don't think about it, we don't obsess about it, we don't reach for it because it's
just not an option. How do we have a version of that in our own kind of world that we create where it's like with me, I can drink beer whenever I want, but I don't drink beer or booze ever, not because I'm better than anyone, Because in my mind, that's not an option. It's not a thing I do. I don't reach for it. Would I like it? Maybe I would like it? Would it make me feel good? Probably? I don't know. But you know, when you have something in your head where you go, that's just not a
thing I do. And that's absolute, that's not dependent on willpower or self control or situational awareness. But you know, how do we have that kind of alcohol kind of thing like I do with some other habit that's also potentially destructive or unproductive. How do we get from the idea now to the reality in our life?
Wow, that's I think that's a complicated question because there's practices that we engage in that are conditioned that that may not serve us. I mean maybe at one time they did. And then there's the whole thing around addiction and what drives that. So, I mean, if there was no oxygen in my room, I just wouldn't breathe, and because I'd have no choice.
It definitely wouldn't use your apps, though.
Definitely not definitely, not not for very long. I mean that's a serious problem. If I'm gasping for hour and I'm like, oh god, I'm alive for another sixty seconds, that's one more cat video I can get in.
Yeah, let me just check my ij stats.
That's a serious issue. But yeah, it's it's like, Okay, of course I wouldn't breathe because I have no access to oxygen. But if I have I have ox access to oxygen, I'm gonna do everything I can to take that one more breath. I think that's a different situation than forming your identity around I'm just not the type
of person who does this, you know. For me, I think my identity is around the gym, no matter how many injuries I get, no matter how messed up I get, I'm just not the type of person who won't work out. And that's not a willpower thing at all. At this point, it's almost, you know again, this is something we talked about. It takes more willpower for me to say I'm going to stay out of the gym because I need more recovery or I'm gonna stay out of the gym because
I got these weird injuries. Because my identity is I am this person. So I think, you know, the whole question around not what am I going to discipline myself to do or not do where it is valuable, but more sustainably, who am I? And who am I not?
What do you think about the concept? I'll start with you tif of some kind of public declaration, not necessarily on social media, but maybe to your five year friends, or to your bloke or to the people you train with. You go, this is what I'm doing. I want you guys, help me stay a bit accountable and you know, give me,
give me some grief if I'm not. I don't know, like I know that and I've said this before, but one of the things I really regretted badly when I started my PhD is that I told everyone I was doing a PhD because I wanted to fucking give up
thirty nine times. And if I hadn't told anyone, I probably well, I definitely would have thought of it because the first six months were horrible, but part of me, probably my ego, just kept me like showing up and doing it because I didn't want to be that guy that went back, I'm doing this, which I never said, But what do you think of the concept of saying it out loud? Was that keep you more? Is that a good or a bad pressure or no pressure?
I reckon accountability is a good pressure, but I reckon there's that It's different for different people. So you know, for me, accountability is more who can help or who can be on the team, Like there's a bit of or who can I drag in to help so that I will stay on this. Like if I just if I picked five people and said I'm going to do this, give me a bit of grief. If I don't mate, I'd go them if they came at me when I'd stopped.
It's like.
I think, sometimes I reflect on when I'm not doing something that I say I want to do, I have to revisit my values. Do I actually want this? Is this obviously not a priority because I know I'm very disciplined with the things that are a priority. So let's sit down and ask ourselves why this doesn't seem to be a priority. What makes me want to do it and what's making me not do it? Accountability? But back to that though, Yeah, I think for me is a
big one. But dependent on how I structure that what that looks like.
Are you I want to ask this question, this is not a two edge question. Are you really disciplined with the things that are important to you that you're more comfortable with? Like? What about the things you fucking hate doing and don't want to do but you know they're important.
I think I'm disciplined with that too, Yes, Yeah, And.
What's one thing you hate doing that you're consistently good with? Oh?
Look, I just think of all of that the admin required for running a podcast and running it, you know the amount of episodes I've done, and doing it on the day all of the time, like making it a structure. And when I implemented that program and the socials that go with it, I did each platform slowly because I went, this will fall over. I probably won't keep doing this because sometimes I start things and then I don't keep going.
And now every day I post something on that Instagram, but which I've been terrible for years, not being very consistent. But I want, well, if you want this to be better, you have to post one thing every Day's it? One thing every day? And so every day now I do that one thing. Sometimes I don't want to. I'm like, I don't want to do that.
And what about Bobby? The process of like the awareness stepping out of the micro the minutia of the day to day being in the day and trying to step away from the day a bit and then figure out what where does my energy need to be today? Like what is the best use of my energy? As we record this Thursday, the twenty third of April, Like do you ever get your shit together in the morning and think, okay, in terms of what I need to get done today, how do I invest my energy wisely?
I need to I need a morning tool and an evening or a touol and it's really it's really interesting, so making this move one of the places, and one of the reasons why I chose this place is because I have this I don't even know if you can call it a balcony, but it's enormous. It's like a room outdoors and you got like this, you know, view of the mountains. And when I said, oh, I could go out here and literally be home but not home, and it could be an oasis where I could sit.
I don't need to bring my phone because I know where it is. I could even turn the alarm on so I could hear it from inside the house when I know it's time to come back inside. And I could sit with my work. I could sit with my books and really prepare for the day. I feel that when I fill my head with information and not information like jumping from one post to another, reading information and sound bites, but immersive learning, I get so much more clarity. And then I do the same thing at the end
of the day with the reflective practice. I think one of the reasons why I'm struggling cognitively. I am struggling so much the past couple of weeks is we've been this move is so stressed out, stretched out. It's the longest move I've done. I don't have my rituals at all, and I'm a complete mess. Like how I get at this time. When I get off this show, it'll be around seven in the evening. For me, I'm gonna be amazed they got through the day and did anything at all.
My growing up, my mum had this habit which she was renowned for. Mary would always you know those little kind of spiral bound pads that are about as big as your hand, You know, those little ones, tiff and they've got the spiral spiral at the top and you turn it over. So everyone used to make fun of Mary for her lists. Mary had a list for everything.
She was like the list lady. You know, I should have lists for groceries, should have lists for stuff she bills she needed to pay, should have lists for things she needed to do or people she needed to call back, or like, I just grew up around lists. And the fucking hilarious thing is, and I know this is the most fundamental concept, but if I write a list in the morning, either a written list with a pen or a list in my phone. I'm definitely more productive and
waste less energy. And now this is just me. It probably won't work for everyone, of course, but I'm just better when I have a list that either of you do lists? Do you do lists?
I have gotten so into it because there was a time where I thought, okay, like people who make all these lists, and I just got a weave from understand one the neuroscience behind those dopamine hits, Yes, productive dopamine hits or fantastic. I think I'm more engaged in my day. And I'll rate all these things on the list, not so I can cross them off, so I could transfer
them to another list. So I have a list here on my mobile phone, but I also have a paper list, because I'll look at that and there'll be twelve things on that list. I don't care about doing all twelve of those things. I'll take what's the top two? What are the top two things? I'll write that down, and as soon as I crossed those off, what are the next two top things? So yeah, it really helps me organize my mind.
I reckon. My mom has been training her whole life for cognitive decline because now she's there right, and her brain doesn't work as great as it used to. And now when I've got to tell her something important, I go, where's your pad? She goes, Oh, it's just here. I go, I get your pad. I go write this down because I know she's going to forget it in eight minutes. But if it's written on paper, she'll get it done, or she will at least recall it when she sees
the you know. And so even on a like for eighty six year old Mary Harper, it works for her, like it still works for something she's been I don't know since I can remember probably sixty years. Do you have a version of that tip?
No, I'm shocking. I use this. I have an Asana account, which is like a task prioritizeation kind of thing in and put a list on there which you can access on your phone and on there, and I'll probably look at it once every three months. I'm like going to use that. That'll be really good, And I'll write my list and I'll put the deadlines in and then I'll revisit it in another three months. Shocking.
I feel like, I don't know if this sounds weird, but like your life, Bobby's life, your life, my life, it has its own energy and its own kind of flow. It's like a river that's flowing, and every morning you step into the river and you just start flowing with the river. Yeah, yours is rappers. Yours is rocks and waterfalls, and it's in kayaks and fucking oh yeah yeah yeah, yeah,
oh yeah, you'd be good. But my point is that I think it's quite easy to do life somewhat unconsciously because you have set rules, rituals, routines, like things that you do every day. You know, nobody drives to work going well, I put my indicator on that you just put it on, will I go this road or that you go? You know, you just get there and you haven't even thought about how you got there because you did it largely while hopefully paying attention to the road.
But you know, on a level, you didn't think about how do I do this task? You just did the task because there's no alternative. But then there's the thinking about of the things that I typically do in a day, which of those things are moving the needle in a positive or a negative direction? I know that's an overdus term.
Moving the needle. But yeah, and being able to like, I think there's a correlation between how consciously you are living and the change that we're talking about, the improvement, the adaptations and the recognition of things that don't serve you. What do you think about that, Robert?
For me, I can do that when I set up events for myself. I think that's one of the reasons we were talking about this offline, like why are you doing this particular course and taking this exam? I'm taking a pretty big exam in a couple of weeks, and no sooner than we had that conversation, I went out and invested in another really expensive course. It's like, why
do you keep doing this? Because it helps me be more conscious about the way I'm living, Because these courses are connected to something that's important to me, not just something I want to have the skill sets to do, but someone I want to be, and it struck me.
It gives me timelines to where if I start looking out into the future like five years, I'm not nearly as effectives as if I'm like, Okay, let's look out five months the standard this course or just like one year this thing at the end of all this when you do this coursework, what'll be different? Not again, what will be different in terms of doing skills and being skills?
What about that very human factor of our I can't be fucked you know. It's like the amount of times where I've had someone come up to me after I do a gig. I'm not talking tencent, but one or two percent. Usually a man who'll come up after I do a gig. And obviously they think I'm in reasonable shape. They're like, how old are you? I tell them. Then they're like, fucking hell, I'm ten years younger than you. And I'm like, I wish I looked like you are.
A wish I was lean or as strong or as fit or whatever their thing is in their head about their perception of me. And they go, tell me what you do, and then I give them a one minute of overview of what I do, and most of them are like, oh fuck that, Like I want that outcome, but I don't want that work. It's like, yeah, I want that. I would love to be that or have that or operate at that level, but that seems real hard.
I mean, there's also got to be a willingness to just go do some shit that isn't fun or easy or comfortable to make that shift from what I'm doing isn't working into what I'm doing is now working much better?
Right? Yeah, you know what, here's something that I'm learning from myself. So the ACAUS, the International Coaching Federation, I've been looking at their core componencies as principles for a living, not just so every few years they get together. I think that the last meeting they had was in Paris and in twenty twenty five, and people who are at an MCC level master coach level, we get together and evaluate the code of ethics and the core competencies and
they kind of reevaluate them because things change. And one of the things that they looked at was when you are an ICF credentialed coach, you are expected to maintain a certain code of ethics within your coaching practice. And then they looked at that last time and said, no, no, it goes deeper than that. When you're an ICF coach, you are expected to maintain a certain code of ethics. And my view on what ethics are and what they're not is totally shifting. But that's that's tangential. You need
to maintain those fa in everything you do. So let's say you're a coach, but you're also a plumber. You need to maintain those code of ethics like when you're on a plumbing job, and it'll probably make you, you know, probably not a better plumber in terms of skill, but in terms of customer relations. Absolutely. I was like, Wow, that's amazing because if you can use those when it comes to doing hard stuff. I think boundaries and guidelines
and principles are just as important as the practices. And what are the principles that guide your life, Because if your principles are set up in a way like let's take a look at core competency number eight, which is talking about the facilitation of growth. If that's something that you hold not just for your clients, but you hold it for yourself in your life, Yeah, I'm going to go out and do hard shit. Why because I live by that. That's a core competency of mine. That is
an intrinsic principle that I've committed to. I find that very valuable.
Yes, yes, t If is there something that you have recognized in the past that was a waste of energy that you've actually changed, like that you've gone, yeah, I really have switched that, well, flick that switch or turned it around.
I think it's often that same one I come back to. Really it's the socials or it's a I think one thing I've been looking at lately is priorities, like what what am I doing? And getting conscious but getting conscious around it. When I was doing an obscene amount of productive work, what felt like double what I do now. The more the busier I am, the more productive I am, It's great. And then trying to get more balance into my day and my week and my life is really
challenging because when there's no urgency. So what I think, what I'm looking at at the moment, if I'm honest, is what self created urgency is running my perception of my life. I self create urgency to get things done. And then that urgency sits inside my fucking emotions and becomes a thing that is actually not good. It's not positive, it's not productive, and it's not enjoyable. And I'm like, okay, well let's start looking at all that. I think I'm in the middle of something now.
That's nice, that's good. Do you remember I don't know if you're on this podcast, but I did it. Maybe you edit to hurt it. Maybe you're sitting in on it. It was a thousand episodes ago at least with Jeff Jout and he was talking about and Jeff Jout built a sixty million dollar company here in Australia. Super smart dude, bought it, sold it had a few peaks and troughs. But he's just in innately intuitively clever and gifted and entrepreneurial dude. And he said to me one day, said
the problem And this is a while ago. Things have changed a little bit, but it like lit a fucking fire in my mind because he saw something about me and in me that I didn't recognize. He goes, the problem with your business model largely is it's the wheelbarrow model. And I'm like, okay, what's the wheelbarrow model? And he goes, You're only making dough if you pushing the wheelbarrow. So I'm essentially my whole life was about trading my time on my skills for money. And so if I'm doing something,
I can make dough. But if i'm and so the idea of one efficiency that's not the most efficient. It's not a bad way by the way if that's what you do, if you do a certain trade or skill and you get paid X per hour and that works for you, and that's then that's where you should be. But I realized that I did a lot of things that were not productive. And I still want to dedicate percentage of my life doing things just to help people,
which is irrespective of the commercial pursuits. But yeah, I realized I needed to figure out from a business point of view, from a commercial viability point of view, how do I, instead of one hour equals one x one hour equals one x in terms of income or dollars or whatever, how do I do one hour of work that produces five x other than just my perceived value going up as a speaker. And you know, so that's when we started to do like online stuff and we've
got a video course in the pipeline. At the moment I did my audio program, and even that little audio program, which I'm not suggesting anyone by it, but it was like took me, I think took my I had two days to record and edit. And I'm not trying to sound good to bad here because it certainly didn't make me rich, but it sold it ninety seven bucks, and I think in the first week we sold about sixty And I'm like, so I'm in bed and I'm getting up. I'm going I made fifteen hundred dollars last night.
How was that?
You know?
Just where you go, oh, this is a pretty good of investment of time and energy if we're talking through through a purely commercial lens, right, I didn't understand how to be more efficient, or I didn't. I certainly didn't capitalize on that ability to be more efficient. So I think there's that you know, when your eyes just get open to something new and you go, oh, I wasn't
even It's like with academia. I never ever saw myself as an academic, even though you know, I already had a degree in the back pocket and all of that. But it's like when I started, but now not that I think I'm a high level academic, But now I understand it. I know how to do research, I know how to interpret data. I know how to write papers. I know how to communicate with other academics. I know how to I know how to do that. I know how to inhabit that environment and not feel like a
total weirdo. But you can't achieve that feeling or that that that personal outcome without going through that journey. You know what I'm saying. I don't know what I was saying there, But anyone thoughts save me, help, anyone fucking help? You know what's what's mad? Every cool?
That's where I go.
When you're doing when you're doing a gig and you're like, which doesn't happen much these days, but it has. Where you do a bit of a zinger and you stand on the edge of the stage. You're gone, but aba zinger and fucking two hundred people look at you, like with blank faces and then you now you know you're not gonna they're not going to feel the feel, the silence or the gap. I just experienced that just then in my sphincter snapshot for about ten seconds. So thanks
for helping me out. You too. You guys are awesome.
Yeah, a real friend will just sit in it with you, experience that with you.
That's definitely not friendship. Hey, can I just chuck into Red Herring? Have either of you read It's very old, now very well known, and it polarizes people. But the power of now either of you read that, you read it tip.
Yeah, a long time ago. I'd actually mentioned it the other day. I want to read it again.
I just started.
I read two I think I read two chapters of it. Yeah, that's a lot of people's experience. And I said this the other day.
Sorry for the repetition, but god, it's making me think at the moment anyway differently. I'm listening to about two hours of it a day. It only goes for eight hours, so I've got like four days, so I'm halfway through. But it's just even looking at the world and life purpose and meaning, I don't agree with everything he says.
He's not my guru, but just to listen to somebody else who has really great insights who you don't really think like them, but then you listen to them and you're like, this is definitely not the worst way to think. He's definitely not the worst way to see the world. Yes,
so I think I said it the other day. But listeners, if you probably go the audio option, the reading option for me is a little bit laborious, but definitely good to go for a stroll and listen to last one And this is weird and off topic and Bobby, this is going to be hard for you because I know that you've read one million books. So instead of saying all time, most impactful book in your life, give me one or two or three. And Bobby's looking at his bookcase.
You wouldn't know where to start. And I mean you could come back next time and go, I got it wrong, I forgot this book. But name one or two or three books which for you not necessarily recommendations for the audience, but books that you read and loved. And even now, like, there's one book that I loved so much and look them back. I'm almost embarrassed. I'll share it in a minute because it's somewhat cheesy, but for me at the time, it was the right book, by the right person with
the right words. What about you, Bobie.
Well, I did mention, I did mention?
Behave.
Yes, it's up there. Wicked The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the Worst Gregory Maguire. It's got to be one of my all time favorite.
Books because give us like, can you just I come listening and going why on Earth? But I'm sure there's a good reason.
Yeah, it's very different than the theater production or the film. It's a lot darker, it's a lot more complex, and it creates this fictitious character to kind of sneak in under in the your cognitive biases. Uh and and challenge how you feel about the world. It's like you really don't know anything. Yeah, step completely into whatever you think you know, you probably don't. You love that.
It will be a it will be a third one. You pause and we'll come back to you. Feel said one, Tiff, what's near the top.
Of your list, it's how to narrow down? But three, Like I banged on so much about Atlas of the Heart by Brene Brown that a few times when that first came out. That's brilliantt What.
Did you What did that do for you or what shift or what awareness did that bring for you? The power of.
Understanding the literacy around our emotions, like how we describe and how we define emotion, the words we use in relationship to what the meaning is. Then, so how both we interpret our own emotions but how we can communicate or understand other people's emotions based on the words we use. It's yeah, I read it a few times and I just remember going on and on about it all the time, recommending it to people.
You have you read that, Bobby, Yes, And I found it to be an outstanding read.
I'm the odd one out. I'll go for that after eckhat yep. Second tif, Die.
With Zero is a book on money, and that was brilliant. What's the Bill Perkins wrote that? And I loved that it was just a book on money, but about your relationship with money, and it really makes you think differently about life and how you live it and how how you experience life and making memories versus material things. Good book. Uh What Happened to You? By Bruce Perry and Oprah Winfrey. Yeah, yeah, it's a really good book. Trant me to stop there? Or can keep going? Yeah?
No, keep going.
Another one I really enjoyed was Annie Duke wrote a book called Quit. So a lot of people have heard
of the book on grit. What's that is that? Angela Duckworth wrote Grit Quit is a brilliant book because it talks about the psychology of quitting and there's and the science behind that and that I found that a really interesting introspective read of our relationship with the decisions we make and goes into sun clost value and all of the things that we place on the decisions we make and the things we hold on to, and why it's a.
Really provocative word quit, isn't it because it's kind of got negative connotations, like nobody wants to be a quitter exactly. Yeah, that's interesting, Bobby.
Last one, Can I just say every book that Tiffany just said, I like those.
Two copy out?
I do. I don't know. I'm having a hard time thinking about a third book.
This is great podcast.
One hundred books behind him on the bookshelf.
We'll just just mentioned, all right, honorable shout out.
It's it's it's probably. I don't think it's like my all time favorite. What I'm realizing, what I'm embarrassed of is that every book I think of is a non fiction book, which that that's a growth edge for me. I really need to sit with some fiction for a bit. But Community to Change right by Keegan la He that is, that's a great book from a coaching perspective or work even personally, like exploring ambivalence both personally and organizationally.
Perfect more book.
Tales and Troubles of Horatio Jones of what oh.
What a bloody amazing book. Yeah, I've heard of it. I've even got a copy of it. I may have even read some of it. Apology to the author, who Tiff and I both know and one of us has intimate relations with the author. A Tiff, you can have a go next week. It's not me. I'll give you the tip. Ah. Well, my first cheesy book, which is now a little bit embarrassing to say, but it kind of just hit at the right time for me because it was suited my mind at the time, which was
Tony Robbins. I know, that's real cheesy, but unlimited power. Like when I first read that, I'm like, oh, it just gave me hope because there was this you know, this dude who grew up in Shittsville and you know, his story just resonated with me. And then to watch him over the years, whether or not you like him or hate him. Yeah, I really, I really it resonated with me because it gave me who thought I was a piece of shit, and it just I really recognized a bit of him in me and I really kind
of aligned with that. So it wasn't I mean, the words were good, but like the actual the teaching content, but yeah, more so the story. I think when you really resonate with some person and their story. It has way more impact because I went, oh, I'm a loser to I want to read this.
You know, Bobby, I was so disappointed with Unlimited Power because I thought it was a book about solar panels. O.
Can you need to go back and rewrite that and try and get the next one? All right, Bobby. Bobby Capuccio dot Com is where you can find him. Also the self.
Help Robert dot com.
Robert Capuccio apologies and I throw it up now antidote fucking hell. And see when you want him to talk, he doesn't, And then when you want him to shut up, he doesn't fucking shut up. I love I love you so much. Also, you can find him on LinkedIn. Tiffany and Cook has a podcast called Roll with the Punches.
She's also a woman about town. Available for sexy voice for four dollars ninety nine per minute, So if you want to chat and you better get in quick because I don't think the sexy voice is going to last long.
We're at fifty thirty, so I'll send you and invoice apps when we sign off.
Yeah, sure won't. Thanks everyone, Thanks, boys and girls appreciate you