O God, I term it's a bloody you project. It's Harps, It's Monday and the thriving drops. It's the twentieth of April twenty twenty six. One of my favorite people to come on the show, and that is absolutely true. We get him as often as we can as Dr cam McDonald up in the sunshine, Sunshine State, just bloody hanging out with the menana trees and the beaches and people in bikinis. Is it How is it up there?
It's still bikini weather, that's for sure. I mean there's a few people that are getting cold.
Oh they're just sun but I am still in my board shorts walking stocking in the stock You just stop, you just cut out, say start from There's a few people, there's a few people that are still finding it a bit cold, but I am still in my board shorts walking the park in the morning with no temperature control at all, so it's still lovely for me.
It's an uncharacteristic This sounds like two old guys talking. Sorry anyone, but it is an uncharacteristically warm week down here in Melbourne. It is mostly kind of low to even higher twenties for the whole week. Which is bloody obscene but also enjoyable.
I thought we want it's exactly it helps the old bones, you know.
Now, my listeners may probably hear nothing, but can you hear that concrete cutter in the background?
Mate?
No, oh, that's good. There's a man or two men everyone who are wearing bloody high vs vests outside my house right now cutting concrete and it's about an eight out of ten volume in my room where I am right now. So if these questions are stupid, just bear with me. But well, firstly, let's catch up. Are you all right? How's work? How's life? How are you? How's your health?
A good?
Actually, I've you know what I had?
A Really, My CEO is probably the most gifted person that I know on the planet when it comes to understanding the human psyche and.
Matt Reeman Matt Reeman for you, is it just.
Is it just natural inherence? Intuitive? Or has he studied the shipload or both?
It's both.
So he's got the most capacity that I've ever met of anybody to interpret a person and what's going on for them on all levels. And then he has got classical health training as well, so he understands all of the physiology and neurochemistry that goes on.
And then he's an.
Entrepreneur and does a whole lot of really really cool things. But he's just got he's just he's just one of these.
Foods that.
You can follow really easily, that's for sure, because he's he's just got all together.
It's it's pretty impressive.
Does he have? You know how a lot of people have lots of knowledge but they're not or lots of understanding, lots of intuitive awareness. They get stuff, but they perhaps never learned that or read that anywhere, or they didn't get told that. And then there's other people who are academically brilliant. They know a lot, they remember a lot, and they can use that in their work. And then there's the kind of the the people who are socially, emotionally,
conversationally brilliant but perhaps not necessarily academics. And then you get these fucking phenoms that can do all of that, right, is he one of them?
He's that bloke? Yeah?
Yeah, Wow, he's that guy wow yeah, And he's he yeah, So I think there's all There's a doco who being filmed on him right now that will be coming out sooner rather than later.
But yeah, just about all of his capacities and his gifts and various things like that. And I've been firsthand witnessed to it. And one of the things that he played around with me, I was getting stuck in this idea of lack and I've realized just talking to friends that actually doesn't matter how much you've got, you can still have a really powerful lack story going on.
I don't have enough.
I was stuck in that a little bit, and I was letting it sort of spiral me down a touch. And he's just very good at having these conversations of like, well, there's a higher part of your consciousness that can really see the beauty in all things, and then there's also a lower part of it that is going to just circle around on this very you know, I don't have enough money, the physicality of things, and it all just
depends on where you want to see it from. And so he took me through this process of you might look at it like you don't have enough, and there's a few there's actually a number of different ways of looking.
At that, and it's a heads or tails thing.
You know, you can swear black and blue that that coin is a tail, and you're can have somebody else looking at that exact.
Same coin saying that's one hundred percent heads mate.
And so he gave that analogy and what he did, and both of us have we're pretty open. Well, he teaches it essentially, but I have a good sense of I believe that we're all sort of part of the one consciousness. We're all having separate experiences. That's my belief system. I don't push it on any people, but it works for me. And at that level he goes, may just go up to that level for a second and you'll see that, well, all of this is just meant to
happen because we're all having an experience. This isn't good or bad. This is just a thing that's happening right now. And in the quantum realm, all of these moments are happening all at once.
There's actually no time and space.
It's all just there. This is one of the moments in time. Okay, great, So there's no charge to that at all. And then the second layer down is where in your life do you have abundance? Like if you
if you lost at all, what would you do? And I'm in a really fortunate situation when my parents live in NUSA and have got a house big enough that I could go and live there if everything went to shit, you know, said mate, So you're saying, the worst case scenario is you'd be assuming each morning with your dad, and you'd have a room, and you'd have a house being cleaned and because all of that sort of stuff, and then you've got you've got healthy kids, and you've
got work that you love, and like, you've got all of these things that are incredible abundance. And then and then the next step down is if you then were to bring it down into a more three dimensional level, but still higher than where you've been sitting right now, it's a really good lesson for you to feel like you have lack So why.
Do you need that experience right now?
And then you go through the process of well, it's teaching me resilience, it's teaching me for reality, it's teaching me appreciation, teaching me that I actually don't even have a desire for money. I just desire purposeful work and my kids being healthy and having a great life. And if I don't, if I've got enough money for that, which ultimately a lot of it's free, then I've got enough.
And so it was just rather than just saying, oh, what's the lesson in this, or you know, what can you do to get out of this, he just took me up to the looking at things from a head's space rather than.
A tail space.
Yes, and I had one of the most fascinating experiences. He said, what you need to do is you need to sit down and you need to write down all of the stories in your brain that are from a tales perspective, like where things aren't enough, when you're not good enough, relationships, all of that sort of stuff, and you just need to spend a couple of hours on
it and just like just watch what happens. So I started writing some things down and literally I was doing an exercise on lack, particularly around finances, and I was just writing out, you know, this is a great experience and it's teaching me this and I'm getting this out of it. And what am I going to say when people say, hey, Cam, like shouldn't you be earning more money or whatever it might be, what are you going
to say to them to stay in the heads perspective? Literally, as I am doing that and I've done that exercise three or four times. Two out of the three times that I've done it, I've had people contact me to pay me money. And then and then I've had the biggest or the biggest relatively bigger sales of my career have dropped in.
Exactly those days that I've been doing that stuff. And it was just the most powerful. However you want to ascribe it, it doesn't matter. It was. It's been the most spectacular shift. And I've always known.
Now I see things from a higher perspective, like it's not new. But for whatever reason, this bit of advice, and this is part of Matt's gift. He just gave me the right advice at the right time. And just as soon as I started connecting back up with that, I just started laughing, like I had all of this emotion car I was like, what almost spending so much bloody time just focusing on I don't have enough?
And I know that for some people it gets seen as spiritual bypassing.
You know, just say, oh, what's the benefit of this, or you don't understand I've got to feed my kids and blah blah ah, this bad stuff has happened.
It's just and what I'm trying to do.
Right now, is I'm trying to take every moment in my life up to a head's perspective, just to see what happens, just.
To run an experiment.
It has been absolutely fascinating so that that has just dramatically improved. It's just honed my ability to understand what state do I want to be in? How can I get into that state? And it's interesting how just the timing of my exercise when I do my little vision set for the day, the work that I'm going about, the way that I'm reflecting on the day.
I've just done some little additional practices that have.
Been in the line with that, and things are just flying, Like it's just been so fascinating to get out of that garbage and just you know, it's.
The same event.
I see it as a head, sat as a tails and it's been absolutely phenomenal.
Yeah, I love that. So many things that fascinate me about this and I talk about this and related to this stuff all the time, and it's like that I call sometimes I call it looking for a needle of negativity and a haystack of hope. Like people have got fucking ninety eight good things going on in their life, and two that are maybe not awesome, and all their attention, focus and energy goes on the two yes, And that's like, I think, a couple of not solutions, but strategies for
around that. For me, it's a kind of a bigger than me awareness, and it's knowing that this is not the reality. This is my story about the objective reality. This is my ongoing, ever present, subjective Craig experience in the middle of just what is right and nothing means anything on Planet Craig until I give it meaning. Now, if I assign that a bad meaning, I have a bad experience. If I assign it interesting, I'm interested. If I think, oh, that's curious, I'm curious. If I think
it's hilarious, I fucking laugh. Right. If I think it's tragic and sad, I'm crying. The person next to me goes through the same situation or that has the same stimulus but a totally different response, I'm legitimately sad. They're
legitimately not sad, confronted with the same objective reality. And so I think this realizing that we are constantly just looking through the Kraig lens or the cam lens full of our own thinking and bias and prejudice and skills and all our bullshit, the good bullshit, the bad bullshit, and realizing that this is in reality, this is my reality, and I'm creating it and where does that come from?
And trying to have a level of self awareness. I think the beginning of consciousness, like real deep consciousness and awareness is firstly recognizing your lack of consciousness, like I am moving through the world and conversations and situations and stuff unconsciously and unconsciously labeling shit. Oh fuck, this is a catashphi and now I have a catastrophe. You know. I was talking to someone this morning about without mentioning stuff.
I've mentioned my parents fair bit on the show, but my parents are, you know, heading towards the home straight like they've Hopefully it's not, you know, I said, the check and flags in sight, And this person I was talking through is laughing, right, and I said, hopefully not too soon, you know. But it's like they're eighty six and there's lots of challenges and I hope they're around for another five years or more, but it just is
what it is. And then there's you know, like I'm submitting my PhD in four weeks, and then I've got a few friends I had, you know. Anyway, it doesn't but lots of shit. And in the middle of it, none of it I can control. I can't control the outcome. I go, all right, well, what can I do which might be a positive influence or impact on that person, which might be of help or value. Let me do that.
But it's very difficult because we're so emotionally driven, and we believe our emotions and your emotions is going this is a fucking catastrophe, mate, What are you bullshitting yourself?
You know?
And it's like, oh is it? And then my nervous systems go, system goes, oh, of course it is. And now that thing is is inhabiting us, not the other way around. So that's this. When I talk to corporates, this is not the right word. I don't mean this offensively,
but dumb it down. And we talk about the external world in the internal world, and I go external world, and I right, situation, circumstance, environment, government, traffic lights, other people, bank balanced, blab But these are these are things you can't in the moment anyway. Bank balance, maybe the exception, but these are things you can't control. More broadly, what other people do, say be well, they like you, not like you. You can move the needle a bit, right.
But here's all the shit. So that's my external world, whether you know, whatever internal world is thoughts and feelings and data processing and meaning giving and storytelling and realizing that I don't live in an external world. That's where I do life. But where I live is in that internal place, and it's that internal world that drives all my physiology to a large extent, one way or the other, better or worse. And then I don't know I might be If I sound arrogant listeners, I apologize, but I
don't know that. Too many people really try to zoom out from the in the moment me experience right now, to get like a high level perspective, like to be the observer of the self in the middle of shit. It's like, oh no, this is just you know. And sometimes I like, I'm really good under pressure. I do not know why, but if something fucking terrible happens, you
want me there because I'm good. But there will be other things that are not catastrophic that I won't cope with as well as the average person perhaps you know, and then that trying to understand what you are opening the door on. I can regulate me, I can understand me better. Oh, my stories aren't the reality. My stories are stories. They're interpretations of things. But the problem is, or one of the problems, is my body can't tell the difference between what I think and what is real.
So that do you know what I'm saying? So I think, which is why And we've spoken about this before. I think people wake up in the middle of a fucking horrendous dream which is completely untrue. You know that is not the reality, but your body he doesn't know that. For five minutes, like you wake up, heart rates up, All these things are happening despite the fact that there is no risk, there is no drama. You are not in trouble, you are safe, you are okay, And it's
trying to you know. That's the not always symbiotic relationship of mind, you know, emotion, physiology, and trying to navigate life with some level of awareness and understanding and perhaps self regulation. In the middle of the ship, we can't regulate. Yes, steps down off soapbox. I love it.
And what there's so many things about that. One of the things that I've noticed is that there is no end to understanding yourself, like the layers that come off, and you'll you'll go through the same lesson three or four times, but every time you go through the lesson, it's with another layer of awareness, another layer of consciousness, and that lack of consciousness it's not just a matter of Obviously, you can increase that by deciding to be.
More aware and taking a more observer look at your life.
Then there are things that obviously, and we've spoken about this previous ones as well, is the subconscious elements of things and stuff that you're not even aware of even and when you try and be aware, and it's and that's obviously where the right mentalist can really help you. Psychotherapist, whatever it may be, whatever your flavor is. But I'd have to say that a lot of the I'm getting stuff and holding it better because I cleared a bunch
of subconscious stuff. And I know we spoke about that previously. The things that are landing for me now, they used to be things I couldn't let go of, like the negativity, and now I find that I could literally just choose to switch my brain and think about it in a
different way and immediately my state changes. Whereas and when you hear Bruce Lipton talk about this is very interesting that ninety five percent of your world is being constructed by your subconscious and so if you're not aware of that stuff, then I can be giving this thing about oh, just flip everything into our heads and towels.
You go, Okay, that doesn't work for me. That's because we'll probably.
Because there's some subconscious stuff that's still playing out that's blocking your ability to just flip.
Your mindset and go that way too.
So I just want to put that as a disclaimer because the advice that works for one person generally doesn't work for the next person because their situation is so different and the things that stresses.
Them out are so different as well.
I think, also, yeah, I love that, but we're not trying to Firstly, I think everyone knows by now, and we're not trying to direct people or prescribe anything for people. But it's I think it's like this, it's a journey, right, It's not like here's a strategy, do this and this will be the outcome. No, fuck that, because you know, we don't even to it. You know, this is my research, like you know metapception, metaaccuracy, theory of mind, metacognition, Like
we don't even know what we're like. Really, we only know our version of us. And one of the questions I ask groups is I walk in and often in the first minute or two, if I'm going to talk about self awareness and communication and context and culture and problem solving and conflict resolution and all that communication y into personal human e stuff, I say, I'm going to
ask you a question. I need you to be honest, straight up, put up your hand if you've heard your voice on audio recording, And people reluctantly put up their hands, shaken the head, and I go, how many of you think you sound shit? And they all go me, I sound shit on And I go, well, how you sound on audio is exactly how we all hear you all the time, right, So you know you think you've got that when it's recorded, your voice is different. It's whiny and it's shitty. I go, no, that is the voice
that the rest of us. You don't even know what you sound like because none of us live in your head. We don't hear what you hear. Now, even that as kind of an open of the door to realizing not only do you not know how people see you, you don't even know how you sound because we're we're hearing you through different modalities, you know, and that that where you go, because that's a nice kind of entree into
oh yeah, what is the rest of me? Like, well, if that's what my voice is like for everyone, what's my personality? Like, what's my energy? Like, what's my body language? Like, what's what's my actual language that you know, Craig stop saying fuck, this is not the right environment, you know, or or where you start to try to see yourself from a curiosity perspective, not a I'm insecure perspective, but like,
what is the Craig experience like? And I talk to speakers about this often because I coach speakers, and I go, here's here's the deal. You can get up and have you know, the best content, and you could have rehearse whor you're blue in the face and you've got I don't know, you've basically got a forty five minute monologue, which I do not recommend any potential speakers. I do
not recommend that. Neither do I recommend forty seven PowerPoint slides, don't never use them, but don't use them like that.
And then that whole thing of like being on stage, and which is if you're in experienced, obviously it's difficult, it's nerve wracking, or it can be it's you know, But then in real time one trying to be calm, trying to be very aware of why you're there and your messages and stories and ideas, but perhaps most importantly, trying to understand what the audience are getting right now
in this moment. Because you could be a genius. You could be your mate, the superstar, right who's a legit genius, but he gets in front of them, which I'm sure he wouldn't, But you know, you could have someone of that quality or intelligence or potential or aptitude, but they don't know how to connect with an audience and they don't know what the Brian experience is like for the group or whatever it is. And now you're all over
the shop. So that kind of multi layered cognitive understanding and emotional and psychological and sociological understanding of the self and of the others. It's like a superpower. When your job is talking, yeah or sharing or educating or leading, or being a mom or dad or anything that involves connection. This is a superpower understanding how others think.
Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And that's been the I keep reflecting. We've got a beautiful She's a forty year experienced social worker with creditation and mental health and family therapy and trauma, and she runs a lot of our precision behavior change content, which is all about how people's biology changes the way that they think, the lens that they see things through, the way that they filter information, and in relationships, in
parenting in a health professional space. And every time I listen to it, it's like, ah, like you just realize how many of your biases you think are good, you know, the way that you're expressing things, the way that you're
thinking things through. I've got some really close friends that I get into a deep conversation with them, like let's really unpack this and get some structure and certainty around it, and they just detest it because they want to be having fun things, being a bit more sparky and spicy. And it's just I think that I'm doing the best thing by getting really deep. They're just thinking, oh, we
just have to tolerate this still cams done. It's just so fascinating, and when both people are aware of both people's biases, it just runs so much better. There's so much more acceptance, and yes, it's just a better relationship as a result.
And also the tenness and humility and authenticity for you to go. Some people won't vibe with me, some people won't. You know, if you've got one hundred people listening to you, I mean we've got thousands listening to this over the days when it's heard, guaranteed someone thinks that's an absolute shit. If not ten or twenty people, which is completely fine. Somebody else has a bit inspired, someone else's curious, somebody else's harps, you've been here before, fucking let's go down
or whatever. And there are a bunch of people probably just driving to work or doing their workout or who are going, ah, yeah, this is relevant to me because I'm a human as well. So what you do is you try. And I know I'm not going to connect with everyone. I know I'm not going to land with everyone.
But what I do know is the stuff that we're talking about is universally relevant because we're all humans and we all have relationships and we all have problems, and we all have to build trust, respect, rapport connection some stage.
So then you lean into that and try to make it as I try to make it as unacademic, as unjargoning, as user friendly as possible, because the more listener slash user friendly it is, the greater the potential for somebody to do something with that in their life and create shift in a good way. Because you and I are changing, Dick. You know, we're not changing anyone. We're just two blokes talking about stuff. But the better that we do our job, the more valu valuable it is for people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Just and it's one of those things, geez, I really needed to hear that today, you know, like you get people that are just I've heard this before, but it's just said in a different way, and it really hit me where I need to like means do the same.
Thing to me as well. You know, you just go, you know that really makes sense today. Whereas for other people exactly as you're saying, it's yep, I've heard it. Nice confirmation, but I'm flicking off right now. Not a problem. Yeah, I get it.
This is seems like a red herring. But if you've heard this story, stop me. But I was taught.
I know.
I was listening to what is her name? Her surname is Zoftness, which is the weirdest name ever, respect z O F F N doubles. It might be Rachel anyway, google that if you want everyone. She she's written this book which is Phenomenon. I'm listening to it. And she was on another podcast that slips my mind. But she's
talking about she's a researcher. She was talking about, you know, the relationship between you know, mind, brain, nervous system, all kind of attached and emotion and behavior and physiology and all that stuff that you love and I love. And she's talking about a guy who was working on a building site and he was up on a truck unloading shit and he jumped down off the truck and he landed on a piece of wood that had a seven inch nail sticking straight up. Have you heard this story? No,
So he jumps on this piece of wood. The nail goes through his foot and boot and he he doesn't even know, and then he looks down and sees it and is in immediate agony and like screaming. So workmates come listen as if you've heard this, I apologize half of you have. Half you haven't. People come running and they're like, oh my god. So they don't know what to do. Obviously can't get the boot off because it's got this fucking nail through the boot and the foot
and up through the soul, up through the leather. Whole shooting match. The paramedics come or whatever this was in the States, so whatever they're called over there, and those paramedics and he actually it might have been in straight
doesn't matter. Stories are same. They come and they give him the whatever it is they give him in that place, could have been the green whistle or the equivalent, like the most painkiller you can have inhale it and most people get somewhere between pretty good relief and a lot of relief. He got none. He was still off the chart in pain. Took him. The hospital got him in there, medicated him up. They were waiting for the doctor to arrive, which took I don't know, another five or ten minutes.
In that time, he was just in a cute, screaming pain. The doctor comes in, they've got this whole shit. They're going to cut the boot off and then just deal with whatever. They cut the boot off and he looks. The doctor looks and he goes, he didn't say this, but this is what he said. He goes, bro It didn't touch her foot. It went through his big toe and his second toe. I'm demonstrating for cam with my
fingers here. Everyone sorry about the lack of visual but it went between his big toe and his second toe. It went through the up, through the top of the boot and did not touch his foot. He had no physical injury whatsoever. But the story in his brain was, you know, and all the other bits that flow on, I've just done myself a fucking life changing injury or whatever. And also another thing that she spoke about is how crazy is that? Right? And another thing she spoke about
Rachel her name is Rachel's oftness. She spoke about how firstly, there was no pain until he looked down. That's a bit of a giveaway, right, And then all of a sudden, his mates turn up and they all look like they all go white as a ghost. So he's got ten blokes around him, all looking fucking horrified. Then that's confirmation, right now, I am fucked. And then so there was all of these confounding and compounding variables that added up
to I've got a nail in my foot. I've got a seven inch nail through my foot and then obviously they cut it off when mate, you don't have any injury whatsoever and almost immediate you know, relief. And I'm like that what we think and what we believe is so fucking profound. We don't even begin I don't think, this is my opinion everyone. I don't think we begin to understand the potential of our brain, our mind, our thoughts, our beliefs, and the subsequent impact on the body behavior,
you know, for good or bad. It's like, isn't that shit fascinating?
That's absolutely fascinating.
I just think about the blake when he goes back to the work site.
You definitely just put a bandage on it for a couple of.
Weeks around on hobble around till Christmas.
Definitely takes some sick leave.
Yeah, as your foot mate, Oh, I'm all right, old soldier on that's tried. And didn't think of about that? The fucking the humility or the embarrassment and the shame you spoke about something before I want to ask you about and that was sorry, what's your friend's name the smarty pants Matte Matt Matt, Yeah, so Matt, like you spoke about capacity. So there's another concept in psychle called the performance capacity gap. Have we spoken about that?
No?
So performance capacity gap essentially speaks to what you're currently doing. It could be at the gym, it could be in your business, or it could be anything, right, relating to anything that's perhaps measurable or somewhat performance based, you know, is the difference between what you're doing and also what you think about what you're doing and capacity what you're actually capable of. And with the idea being that a lot of people think that they're performance is pretty close
to their capacity, right, and it ain't. It's like not they think my capacity is ten, I'm currently at eight. Yeah, And then you go, bro, this is good and bad news. The good news is you've got way more ability than you think, and the bad news is you're currently sitting at a three telling yourself an eight story.
Yeah.
That's that shows up all the time, right, we don't understand us.
That's so interesting as well, because there is.
When people are asked that question and they're looking they're looking to validate it's I guess it links into the idea because we just ran some stuff on imposter syndrome and how that turns up for people differently as well. And I guess are these two ideas related where you just don't think, you can't conceive of yourself being better because you're not aware of it.
You have an experience that you don't know.
What you don't know, and that is because what's interesting is people are saying, I'm actually doing really well against my capacity, but the imposter syndrome stuff says that I don't think I'm good enough, you know, like whatever I'm doing is not enough.
And so we live in this.
Really crazy world where we don't think we could do better and we're going okay, but.
Actually there's a lot more we are truly not acting up to where we can.
It's the brain and how it gets influenced by our current social environment is absolutely mind boggling. Like there is there's really no there's no structures in our world, and it's because of this work that I'm doing with schools, the work that I'm doing at workplaces. There's very few structures anywhere and definitely not implemented in an organized way of saying how can I help you develop to be
the ultimate person that you are? Like, there's really no language that we have for that, or no systems that we have for that.
It's truly this is the job of school and you've got to get it done.
We actually don't care if you do better or you're somewhere in the middle.
You just need to get these marks.
And yeah, we've mentioned some curriculum around general capabilities, and we want you to be a good person and identify yourself or whatever it might be, but it's never Hey, we want you to realize your potential, and we're going to put resources around you.
So that you can discover who you are. We're going to get you to.
Discard things that aren't related to who you are, and we're just going to get.
You to stay on that path.
Everything is around how can I meet the mark of the average? How can I meet the you know, the criteria that make me mean that I fulfilled this job even though if it's not in my strength whatever.
It might be there is.
It's an entirely different world when you're thinking, what would I do if I was going to live my best life in my best way, in my best strengths you would go about life in such a different way. But we don't have a language for that, or at least we don't have an organized language in our society.
And I don't know really of any any population around the world.
I'm sure there's pockets that actually have something that relates to that. It's really really interesting, and it is constantly capping even our awareness of how great we can be.
So I think that you go, sorry, did? I also think with that one of the barriers for some people is they're like, Hey, Craig, I want to be a fucking high performer. I don't want to be an Olympian. I don't want to join the Space program. I don't want a PhD. I don't want to be a billionaire. I don't want to be an entrepreneur. And I would say, good that being a high performer has not necessarily anything to do with that shit. Being a high performer or
exploring your potential. It might be your potential to reduce anxiety. You might live in a constant state of you know, two to nine anxiety, and what we're trying to do, like your goal, your Mount Everest might be I want to live a lot of my life somewhere near a state of calm, the absence, like when I do goal setting with people, which is not, like not formal. I used to do a bit of that, like formally, but now more what do you want, what don't you want,
what's working in your life, what's not? What gives you anxiety, what makes you happy? Blah blah blah. When we dig through all the shit that people say they want and then we get down to what's really the driver for that goal, Quite often the driver is I just want my inner world to be calm. I just don't want to be anxious. I don't want to be a chronic overthinker. I don't want to be I'm like, they're great goals. Fuck making a million dollars, fuck having six percent body fat.
You know they're not bad. Cool, But show me one person who who achieves something in their external world and then they're permanently content, like that person doesn't exist, or they've got a perpetual state of internal nirvana and calm and equanimity, and it's like, oh, no, I'm at six percent body fat, I'm the happiest, But no, no, In fact,
it's often the opposite. So I think This also comes down to this is weird, but you'll dig it, I think, is the difference between the idea or the perceived situation of success versus the experience of success, Like, Oh, look at her, she's done this, done, that, lives there, drives that has achieved this, which are all good things and well done and a big tick for you. Therefore she's successful. Well, yes, if we base our criteria for success on acquiring stuff
and doing stuff and achieving stuff and ticking boxes. In other words, all the stuff that's visible to everyone, right, all that external look at what I've done and have an own and earn and look like and where and whatever, versus all the shit that people can't see success. There was a stage where I had five different businesses, bricks and mortar businesses, and it wasn't good or bad. It
was just my life. And I had over one hundred employees at the same time, and there were all these moving parts and from the outside looking in successful all businesses make and do all good. And I'm not saying one caused the other, but the concurrent reality for me was overthinking, not sleeping, anxious, worry, like all of this stuff that didn't reflect the external, And then you get to that point and you go, well, I've done all this shit. Why am I miserable? Why am I sad?
And you go, well, maybe an external or a physical thing won't resolve an internal or non physical thing. And then it kind of recalibrates you, or at least prompts you to think, oh, forget what everyone tells me or what the definition of it is on bloody Instagram or wherever. What actually is success for me? Is it about stuff or is it about non stuff?
Yes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, And this is what I love. This is the because I do a lot of a lot of courses.
I create courses for various types of people, and it's really interesting talking about the concepts of purpose, natural strengths, happiness, flow, love and all of these things that and it's interesting, Like the skeptical person says that I don't want to be a high performer, you would ask them the same question of do you want to have relationships that make you feel great where you're not in contest.
And where it's just flowing and you're supported. Do you want to feel like you've got more energy throughout the day. Do you want to feel like at the end of.
The day, you feel really satisfied with the way that you showed up. Do you want to feel like you're closer to your kids and you're having a really positive influence on them, et cetera, et cetera.
And everyone says yes, yes, yes, yes. Across the board.
A lot of high performing people don't achieve any of those things, but they just have a really great one hundred meters sprint for example. The where I was going with that, the physiology of love is it's dopamine and serotonin, and these are focus and reward, and then some endorphins as well, and then also generally a better heart rate variability,
so calmer, less cortisol, and then oxytocin. And then if you look at purpose, it's dopamine and serotonin and some endorphins, and then it's lower cortisol and lower stress, better heart rate variability, and maybe some more adrenaline because that's keeping your focused on purpose, and then you have happiness or flow.
Let's say we talk about flow.
Flow is dope mean nora, adrenaline, a bit of serotonin, some endorphins, It is a lower cortisol.
It's exactly the same map.
But then they measure anandamide as well, which is this nice little reward chemical that does good things for your brain.
And then you go into into your natural strengths.
And when you're in your natural strengths, you're more motivated, so you've got more dope mean and more nor adrenaline.
You feel more awarded, so you've got more serotonin and more.
Endorphins, and it's costing you less strained to actually be in your natural strengths, and so your cortisol is lower. And so all of these different states that we are all aiming for actually have precisely the same physiology plus or minus a sort of an indicative chemical like oxytocin.
For love and nor agrenaline for focus, whatever it might be, and it it just makes the whole picture, makes so.
And what it means is if you can be in a state that is resonant with you, and that is, I feel purposeful, if you feel like you can be yourself in relationships, if you feel like you're working in your natural strengths and doing things with talent and capacity,
if you feel like you're naturally enjoying your life. What it means is the environment is reflecting back to you that this is an environment for your body because once you get to that state, if we look at health and disease, it's all of the opposite of the things that I just mentioned.
It's untethered stress.
With a high with a hot with poor high cortisol and poor heart rate variability.
And less serotonin and less endorphins, but maybe lots of nora adrenaline and stress chemicals. So it's the idea of success and happiness internally physiologically is essentially how can I be more of meat? How can I be doing the things that really align and make me feel good? And there's sometimes a selfish period that you need to take to actually renavigate back towards that. Because we often spend so much of.
Our life following somebody else's purpose, putting up with relationships, or not truly in connecting with relationships that allow us to feel that deeper sense of connection, we are not really ever encouraged to find flow. We're just encouraged to get it done, rather than what can we do to change this environment to help you get these outcomes in the best way possible.
So I just I find.
That conversation really really interesting because we have a set physiology that indicates this is the right environment for you, and you're working in your strengths and it's going to feel great and less stress and more rewarding, and it's doing all the normal stuff and it's completely influenced by your mindset.
The nutrients that you eat, the movement that you do.
When you do all of that stuff, the work that you're doing, and how purpose all that feels.
It's it and this is what people are chasing. Like if you say, hey, do you want.
To feel happy in all of these things? One hundred percent people say, yes, I want to feel that. And there's a and you've essentially you've got to get to a point where the environment allows you to feel that way because your body is continually responding to that environment.
So interesting and yeah, I mean your body will tell you if you're happy or sad, anxious or not. Like your body's like, nah, you're anxious. You know why because all this shit's happening. Yeah you know that, Like it's.
So just.
You might even want to listen to this lady. So her name is Rachel's Softness. I don't this is how you know that I love you listeners, because I'm actually going to point you towards another podcast, which I think is fucking brilliant. This episode there's a little bit of waffle at the front, like there often is on The
You Project. But it's on a show called The Armchair Expert and it went up April fifteen, and she's just written Rachel has written a new book called Tell Me Where It Hurts, The New Science of Pain and How to Heal. But she goes far and wide. She told that nail story. But she also talks about, like, you know, when people think about obviously the general public and the general messaging from the health and wellness and medical spaces.
You know, eat better and move your body and sleep well and minimize stress, and all of these things are important, of course, and they really matter, and they definitely move the needle, and now all the other things. Don't drink too much booze, maybe, don't ever have a cigarette. You know, don't need anything bigger than your head in one sitting.
You know, all the fundamentals. But she talks about what you were talking about in terms of oxytocin and relationships and love and like what a massive impact something like being lonely, like legit lonely, It fucks up your body. You know it is not it is you know, It's like I would rather have a six out of ten diet and ten out of ten social life or not social life but social connections. I'm not really a big social life person, but like I'm I'm insecure as fuck.
I need people to love me. I need to be loved. I don't mean worshiped, I don't mean idolized, but I you know, and there's a you know when you like for me, there's an because I'm the only kid like I don't have a wife, I don't have nieces and nephews. I don't have obviously brothers and sisters. I don't have kids, and part of me is like, oh, not a Mary eighty six and the check and flags not too far away,
you know, let's hope it's fun. But all that shit where I go, Oh, and even though I understand this stuff relatively well theoretically and academically and from a research perspective, then you go, even though I know all this shit, I still need a fucking hug. I still need Cam to like me, or I want Cam to like me. I want to when I see Cam, I want to hug. I want to. I don't need twenty hugs a day, but like the moments where I've found felt really genuinely
alone and lonely, that's just doing terrible my body. Anyway, maybe some people cope better. I'm like, ah, this is this is no good. Yeah, sure I eat well and train and so sure I'd tick all the other boxes, but it's it's such it has such an impact on us, and especially because and I'm generalizing here, so not all men, but I think probably more men than women because women are women are maybe more socially and emotionally evolved. Who knows,
there's another podcast. But you know, like my best mate Vinn, every time I talk to him, at the end, he goes, love you mate, and I go, love you mate, and there's no because I love him. I just say, you know, I'm reminding you you're loved and he does the same, and it's not love ya, it's like love you mate, and he's like me too. And whenever I need anything, when the shit hits the fan, like I only need
to go mate, can you help me with this? He goes course, And it's just like when I moved Mum and Dad recently from their big old unnecessarily huge house into an independent living place in a kind of an old people's village, which is gorgeous. Like he just showed up for three days and work like a fucking weapon. Like no, didn't want any gratitude, didn't want any thanks, didn't want any acknowledgement, and then did that and then
went see you, mate. I went to see you. That's it, you know for me, because we've all got our love language whatever. Like for me, that's like, oh yeah, and I would do the same for him, Like there's no where you go. Oh you know, this human loves me. And that's and I'm waffling a little bit, but it's so important that you have that deep human connection because without that, I think, where as a very social species, we're a bit fuked.
Yep.
Absolutely, And this is one of the most interesting things about what people need in that connection as well. And this is where I get really interested in the differences in eurochemistry. And I know that Tiff and Kyle previously have picked you as a connector or whatever it might be in our model of health types, but that what we see with the connective body is that they are much more oxytocin dependent and oxytocin is the sense of connection.
I can look at your face and I can.
Feel like I belong And without that oxytocin, when it gets released, it vasodilates opens up your blood vessels, It reduces cortisol.
It actually creates like a bit of a glow up, but also a destress for you. And it's the sense of belonging.
And you know, the quality time or the access service, whatever it might be. And then another individual and that I guess this is more aligned with my brain. I don't need as much of the contact. I just need people to go geez. I love the way you think. Can I really value your thinking?
You know? And it's the respect.
For my thinking that I'm really searching for in people, Whereas another person will be completely selfless and they'll just be looking after people all of the time by themselves, like you know, just really just living for everybody else's goals, and what truly lands for them is a low maintenance friend doesn't ask anything of them.
And it's not about I need to love your thinking.
I can sit here and we support each other, but there's nothing that needs to be said in order for that to happen.
I'm going to put some energy back into you because the rest of your life you're giving it away to everybody else. It's low maintenance friends. And when you talk to them and say, hey, you need some low.
Maintenance people, and you're like, they're oh my god, yes, yes, so right, well that's one of my best friends. We just sit and we virtually just do whatever we want to do. But no, we don't require anything of each other. So even that sense of deep connection is so different. My dad, he's a connector, so he has the deep connection of my mum and the family that live up up that way with them, but then he also needs all of the.
Fun of walking around meeting all the people with dogs. He's got a bunch of friends called the rock Lobsters that.
All they hang out on the rock wall because they all go swimming in the morning. They're all sixty plus to get a ticket to the rock wall. So he's got all his rock lobs to friends. And he's like sort of the man about town, like's not he's a dentist, so he's treating the cafe janitor that he goes to because he just can't help himself, like.
He's just in people's business. So he needs that. But my mum just has the connection with dad. That's all she needs.
Like she's a censor, totally totally different neurochemical makeup. She just doesn't need other people. And she doesn't go out wandering around and she's got maybe one or two friends she might have a catch up with and that's her.
That's her film. So just even.
This idea of deep connection and what it is, you'll just the best way to market is when you think about your friend where you just feel like you can completely relax. What do they give you? You know, and that as a starting point is a really helpful thing to say. What is the kind of connection that I'm actually looking for is that the people that really love the way that I think is the people that are just there for me.
It's the people that I can rely on it of course, whatever it might be, but as.
A starting point, just knowing that one friend that really has your back, or those two friends that when you hang out with them, it's just a full wave of relief. That's the starting point for you know, what truly makes you feel connected.
It's a good place to begin.
It's such a and I mean this speaks to your like your model at pH three sixty and like it's all about beginning to understand how you work and being okay with that even if you know, sometimes I think I'm an alpha male and I always go but I'm not and I'm not really. But in certain situations, like I said to you, I think earlier and en if we're off here on here, but if there's shit happening, you want me because I'm very calm in that and
I'm a good leader when I need to be. But I have no compulsion to go and lead, like I don't want to sert myself into something. But if things are going bad, I'm quite good in that situation. But being able to recognize how you are and then do something with that without judgment or self loathing, but just self awareness and recognition. It's like this is part of
the you know, how do I optimize me? I need to understand me first, you know, I need to be like and I was thinking as you were talking this how my brain works, because I'm you know, I respond to that a couple of things, one ironically and almost ad juxtaposition. I don't like being around people all the time, by the way, I need lots of time by myself. I live by myself, but I don't want to have no interaction day to day, Like I need a little bit and it needs to be quality, be me giving
to someone, not me getting. Like most of the time it's me giving in that I'm usually sitting with someone who's got some challenges. Like probably five coffees I have, four out of three or four out of five coffees I have is me helping someone and one or two is maybe with a friend, right, and it's just an hour of bullshit and caffeine. But then the opportunity like and I feel this sounds quite magnanimous, but it's kind
of not. Is like when I know that I can talk up a walk up to somebody who maybe I think is doing it hard a little bit or just and just go go to mate and I go how are you? And they like are you good? I go, yeah, but how are you? And then they go well actually, and I go what's going on? And they'll unpack a bit. I go, fuck, that's hard, that's hard, and how are you going with all of that? Like how are you sleeping? Or you go, man, I get it, that is that is tough. So how do you fix that or how
do you manage? You know, and I just might talk to them for five minutes and give them some love and some attention and for five minutes they're the focus of my world. And not always, but I'm pretty sure most time I walk away, most times I walk away, that's given them a boost. Yeah, that, you know. And it's like, could be a guy, could be a girl, old young, Try not to be speak inappropriately or out of you know. I try to read the room. But you know, now you've got Oh, you've got to go,
it's time, it's two o'clock. Well maybe it's been gorgeous always. I love chatting with you. Tell people where to find you, follow you.
Yeah, thanks mate, it's been awesome. The doctor km McDonald just searched.
That with Shay Group, SAHAE Group, and that'll get your corporate staff health professional stuff, school stuff.
We're doing a whole lot of work.
In precision health and helping people understand themselves and essentially trying to build the structures that we're lacking in the world right now. So it's all of this work is exactly the stuff that we're doing on one level, and then there's a whole physical level as well.
So always appreciate you mate, You're a gift and we'll have a quick ten second goodbye off fair but for the minute doctor Cam appreciate you.
Thanks, see you mate,