I got our champs at Craig Anthony Harper. It's Tiffany Cook, It's David James Gillespie. That's not true, it's the U Project. Gilespow drops in once a fortnite, the great Man and entertains us and enthralls us and educates us, and every now and then we have a bit of an argument. But the coen of the world's been away in Van Diemen's Land, just toughing it out down there in the
wilds of Tazzi with her new bloke. Now did the new bloke get the tick of approval from the fifteen hundred family members?
Mate? I I was just filtering my own phone for smsages that were getting sent directly to him through me, not just addressed straight to Scott. I'm like, hi, guys, high fam, I'm home too. Yeah.
So in a social setting, I feel like you just push him in the door, wind up that little thing on his back, just you know, the little wind up Scott, and just fucking just push him in and then come back two hours later and get him.
I could go to family events. I could have just dropped him off and taken off and went for a massage and come back and got him.
Nobody would have noticed. And when you came back, they'd be were like, oh, how great is Scott and you're like, fucking eye roll. Yeah, he's all right, but fuck, there's a threshold. Just hang around. No, seriously, before we talked to gilespa about grown up things, did he get the tick or no? He did get the tick?
He most certainly did.
Who did he most Enama? Is there someone in the family who just fucking loves him?
Uncle Greg? I took I took him out to my uncle Greg's because Greg's got a pristine.
Garat motorbike collection, Yes.
The motor bike Collection. So I just sat there like Auntie Tiff while those two kids talked bikes and motors and out for about an hour, and then I just got text messages from Greg to send straight to Scott. It's just checking show, old mate, this show this to old mate.
We'll just call you the conduit. Well it does start with seeing N and T and the word is conduit. Gleisspo. How are you?
Yeah?
Good? How are you?
Yeah?
I'm good mate? What's going on in the thriving metropolis up there?
Are you?
Do you go to court? These days? Still or do you try to.
I don't do that kind of thing.
That's when you've been charged, now, that's right, receiving when you've got the cuffs on.
Yeah, yeah, No, nothing much interesting has been going on up here. I've been writing a few pieces of every one today, which we'll talk about a bit. Yeah, as usual, you're profoundly underprepared for the discussion, but I'll try to carry us through.
I wouldn't want to disappoint you. Imagine if I came, you'd be like, oh, I can't make fun of him. I can't give him shit. I do this. My lack of preparation is just a sign of respect.
Ah.
I want you to be happy so you can attack me. And also if you didn't, I wouldn't know who the fuck was on the other end.
That's right, all right.
So you wrote an article, let me just intro it, and obviously I know fuck all about it because I got home at three minutes to recording time. You wrote an article called one hundred and fifty billion dollar fat scam, how industrial waste became heart healthy food. And there's a big Stonking graph in the middle of my page wherever you want to start.
Right, Well, just a few grabs. First, because you and I talked about seed oils before, and just to be really really clear what a seed oil is, it's oils extracted from seeds or what are generally called vegetable oils on the labels in Australia. So these are things like canola oils, sunflower oil, safflower oil, soybean oil, or just often just described as vegetable oil that you know, no vegetables were harmed in their creation, so it's a bit of a misleading description of them, but.
That's what they are, and they are now.
You know, I could say you go looking in the supermarket for vegetable oils and that will be like directing you to the ocean to find some water. It is everywhere, It's in everything. So I've struggled with how to communicate properly how extremely dangerous these things are. And this is another bash at it, and I thought I sort of boil it down to a couple of fairly interesting factoids that I've come up with.
One is that the average Australian is currently.
Can I read this bit? I just found it because I'd like to read it, and then new comments on it because it's fucking amazing. The average Australian is currently eighteen percent industrial sludge by weights. That's concerning. What does that mean? Say I'm eighty kilos ock, Well, that's no good. It takes six hundred and eighty days to listen to this, six hundred and eighty days for a single hot chips So for a single cup of hot chips worth of seed oil to leave your system, your cells are literally
rusting from the inside out. Here's a graph that shouldn't exist, which you can talk about. Heart disease killed fewer than ten percent of Australians fewer than ten percent in nine one hundred. By the nine en sixties it was the nation's leading killer. If you plot those deaths against butter consumption,
the lines move in the opposite direction. We ate nearly eight to killograms of butter per person in nineteen hundred with low heart disease, and today we eat what is a little bit over a quarter that roughly two point eight kilograms of butter, and obviously heart diseases through the roof. Now plotted against vegetable oil in nine to ten, it didn't exist in our shops. By twenty twenty sixty, average
fuck me drunk. The average Australian consumes over thirty two grams of vegetable two kilos kilos, sorry kilos, Yeah, kilos are vegetable oil, my god, annually. The healthy heart advice of the last fifty years, the era of the Heart Foundation, didn't just fail at backfight. I'm nearly done. The experts will point to falling death rates as proof of success, but don't be filled. We didn't dissolve heart disease. We just brought more time. We just brought more time with
expensive drugs and emergency surgery. That is kind of like, how do people even argue with that?
Yeah, well, it's rarely presented in that way. And that's what I guess I'm trying to do is show the danger here in a way that makes it clear. And the graph, which you know, a lot of people don't like graphs. I love graphs because I think you can say an awful lot with the graph that we know you'll take you forever to write. But this particular graph has two lines on it and they track each other, you know, at almost one hundred percent.
Match.
And that is the rise of seed oil's consumption and the rise of incidents of heart disease. Now I should just use the term incident. Be clear about what I mean by incidents. Incidence is the rate of heart disease in the population. So this isn't because the population's rising. This is what percentage of the population or what number per hundred thousand people, which is the official measure, have
this disease, And that tracks almost perfectly. You know, it's at a ninety eight percent match to the line of consumption of seed oils, so practically zero at the turn of the twentieth century up to almost identically in the same place by twenty twenty. And if you put on that same graph mortality, so the number of people who die from heart disease, that tracked the same line up until the nineteen sixties. But then that line started declining.
And that's the one we always hear about. That's the one. You know, we've solved heart disease, We're getting on top of it. It's dropping fast. But the reality is that what happened in the nineteen sixties is we we invented ways of curing or at least delaying heart disease with surgery most often, so we got brand new types of surgery on the heart which started to come into effect in the nineteen sixties and which is still there today.
We got better.
I've got drugs that are better at prolonging people's lives, blood thinners and so on once they've had a heart attack, and we're better at keeping people alive. So that line has improved. But that's not the line of concern. The line of concern is that the incidence just keeps rising for as long as we keep consuming seed oils and just for fun. On the same graph, I put our consumption of butter, which, as you pointed out, dropped significantly from about a kilos to two point a kilos over
the course of the same period of time. Now we've been told by all the experts, but the reason that heart disease was a problem was everyone was eating too much saturated fat, and butter was often touted as the primary source of that, but also milk. You know, you would have grown up in the a so you were told to eat low fat milk and trim this and trim that, and you know, low fat everything, no saturated fat,
it's the deadly thing. But the reality is that graph shows us that saturated fat, if anything, has dropped significantly in the last century, but the incidence of heart disease has just kept on rising because the amount of polyunsaturated fat or seed oils that we consume has grown at the same rate. And that's what I'm trying to bring to the surface here and then and then if we take a little bit further into the so what category, come.
Back to those those.
Facts that I that you read out before, which is, you know, if we're if we're one fifth seed oil one fifth polyunsaturated fat, Because humans, polyunsaturated fats like the amiga six and the amiga three that are found in seed oils are really really rare in our natural environment. In evolutionary terms, they were hard for us to come by. The only way to consume them was to, I don't know, come across a crop of lind seeds and eat them all.
You know, it was in the wild, in the wild, and.
It was It's difficult.
And because of that, we're optimized to conserve them if we find them, so our bodies don't get rid of those fats if they encounter them, because we use them, we need them, We need them to run our immune system. Amega six of pro inflammatory omega three are anti inflammatory, We run them in balance, we need them in our immune system. We can't manufacture them ourselves. We have to get them from our diet. We're often told to eat fish because they contain them. Fish have no more ability
to generate them than we do. It's just that they eat a lot of seaweed, well a lot more than I do anyway, and so they like us when they capture those fats, store them because they're actually really.
Important to have in at certain levels. Now, in cattle who.
Eat a diet that consists entirely of food that contains those fats, they have built in limitters to make sure they don't have too much of it in their fat. So the optimum amount of these things in your body is about three percent of your body fat. So about three percent of your body fat should be these things to help build brains, run your immune system, all that
kind of thing. And we've talked before about how a good sign as to how brainy a woman's first child is likely to be is how much of this fat she's managed to store on her body.
So the really bad thing, though, is.
That, unlike cattle who can optimize and manage it at three percent, we don't do that. We're omnivores, and because it was so rare in the environment, we just hang on to everything we can get. Not a problem when there isn't that much of it in our environment, but is a problem when it's in every single piece of food on the supermarket shelf. That's why eighteen percent of
the average Australian is now this fat. And that's a really, really bad thing because this fat oxidizes inside our bodies, and when it oxidizes, it interacts with our DNA is. It interacts with our DNA, It interferes with our mitochondria, our ability to produce energy. It interferes with our insulin reception, encouraging us to be heavier than we otherwise would be in creating insulin resistance. It interferes with a lot of
other metabolic processes in the body. When we have excessive amounts of a.
Mega six and I would say twenty percent by body weight is an excessive amount of anything, let alone Omega six.
But that's where we are. And the reason is that other point that I made, which is it takes two years to get this out of your system. You consume a hot chip today, the branched canola oil that was cooked in is with you for the next two years.
Wow. Wow. And I'm just looking at this graph and what is interesting is that around you know, like from the nineteen hundred's ish, it's just like the heart disease has kind of steadily climbed and seed oil use has climbed.
So as you said, it's relatively neck for neck. But I just had a quick squeeze when heart surgery started and in kind of a common not like a rare case thing or a rare use, but kind of sixties and seventies where heart surgery became more normalized and obviously through the eighties, but also the use of all the you know, the medication is too lower cholesterol and blood
pressure and all of those things. And so it's kind of misattribution because they're saying, oh, no, we started this much healthier vegetable oil option over unsaturated versus saturated, which I grew up being no pun intended saturated with that message and thinking, well, this has gone down and we introduced vegetable oil, Therefore that's the cause. And bibbity Bobby boo. But it's kind of perhaps got nothing to do with it well, definitely got anything nothing to do with it.
Well, one other interesting thing is you might have noticed looking at the graph that for the first bit of the journey, the heart disease incidents actually tracks quite a bit ahead of the seed oil It's only in the last since the nineteen eighties that they have sort of matched up in terms of their trajectory. So heart disease was actually growing more rapidly than seed oil consumption. And the explanation for that, By the way, I had a different graph that had this on it, but I thought
it was just getting too confusing. Is smoking. Smoking peaked in the nineteen sixties. It had explosive growth from the start of the century through to the nineteen sixties, and then dropped off very, very suddenly after that. Smoking produces aldehydes which are just as bad for you as seed oil, and everyone in the medical profession is quite happy to
accept that. But when you say to them, actually, the alder hides produced from your heart healthy seed oil loaded breakfast cereal or mayonnaise or whatever you want to name, is producing alder hides which are at least as dangerous as the ones that you accept come from smoking. So that's The reason that the heart disease lines actually go ahead of the seed oil lines up until the nineteen sixties is it was seed oil plus smoking. Then now
it's just seed oil or largely seed oil. So I guess one of the things that might be occurring to you is, Oh, by the way, I want to talk
to you about the Sydney diet heart study. Now, we talked either last time or the time before about the Minnesota County experiment, which was a massive experiment in the United States where they wanted to prove that if you gave people corn oil they instead of eating saturated fat, they would lower their cholesterol and they assumed would also lower mortality, etc. It turned out it did lower the cholesterol as predicted, it just didn't have any well. It
had the opposite effect on mortality. It significantly increased mortality, not just from heart disease but from all causes, which usually means cancer as well. So there was a Sydney study, a study done in Sydney at around the same time, using pretty much the same methodology, and it found it's called the Sydney Diet Heart study. It found that those who replay, who replaced the use of butter, and this
one was a direct replacement. Take butter out of people's diets, tell them to use margarine made with ceflower oil instead, which was the common margarine at the time, and they recorded a sixty two percent higher death rate.
How did they remember, you told me. I can't remember the answer. How did they explain that in the write up?
Like they didn't. They didn't explain it in the write up. What they explained was that it reduced the level of cholesterol, which it did. They just didn't mention the bit about Oh and the rest of the data you might want to know about just happened to kill.
A lot more people. But let's not worry too much about that detail.
Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, this is one of the things that and I don't even pretend actually to be a great scientist science, ye, but yeah, over the years doing my bits and pieces at Union, more recently in my PhD. But that's just how unethical research is. When people are trying to demonstrate something and then when they get data that either disproves it or doesn't prove it, or kind of highlights other really really interesting and potentially
important outcomes. If that convenient once inconvenient or deadly ones, and it doesn't suit their narrative. They just don't like imagine if they reported that, they went, you know what, yeah, the cholesterol thing, bibbity bobby. But but listen to this because but fucking sit down. Let me tell you what else we discovered. They're not going to do that.
No, And it took people going back and looking at their original data to have that fact come out. And it was researcher, Yeah, exactly.
It's the same researcher, a fellow by the name of Ramsden at the National Institute of Health in the United States who redid the Minnesota County experiment data, like found the data and redid the experiments and reanalyzed the data and concluded it was deadly. He did it with the Sydney diet heart study as well. And even when that was reported in twenty.
Sixteen, the Hard Foundation and various dieticians still came out and said, oh, you confusing, it's out of context, et cetera, et cetera. But it's nonsense.
It is thorough and it is complete, and it shows death rates increased by sixty two percent.
Yeah, and yet twenty to thirty years later, all the experts were telling us to do exactly the thing that that study said would increase death rates.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, this we'd have.
Lower cholesterol, which would mean, you know, we'd only our corpse would have a much better blood result.
But that I would have thought is largely irrelevant to someone who's dead.
It's probably not top of the list. I mean, Brian, Brian's dead, but fucking check out his calesterolesterol.
Man, Ye, how clear is that?
Wow? If Funny wasn't dead, this is be super helpful. Yeah, yeah, it's it's like, I know it's not funny, but it's kind of funny. And the problem is that, and I know I'm getting more broad and I'll come back, but it's like people who don't really understand, you know, science at that level because they're not doing that, or they're
not researchers, which is cool. They look up to people who are researchers and scientists, and you know, when somebody writes science tells us, most people just think, well, that's the truth then, but science tells us bullshit all the time.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's a there's a number around that which is veniently escaped my brain. But it's something like eighty percent of published studies are subsequently proven to be false.
It's some enormous.
Number, crazy, you know.
Anyway, what I did with this article though, is I thought, this is all very thrilling, but how do you apply it?
You know, what do you actually do?
And so what I've done is I've this time, I've included sort of a list of the top ten places you're going to find seed oils in the supermarket, and you know.
What you should be looking at there, so you know.
Number one is all these Barista plant based milks, you know, oat, almond, soay milks, everything like that. They're all full of conolerants and some fowl oil. Okay, it's it's added in there to create the froth and the creamy mouthfeel that mimics theiry because there is three percent fat, so they've got to put three percent fat in these things, and so they're not going to put milk in there, So what they do is they put seed oil in there instead.
So you know, I ask people to keep an eye out and.
Avoid white to soy, almond breeze, and a lot of the coals and alwors home brands. Number two is all the healthy you know, musely granola type stuff, right, that's to get.
That crunchy cluster texture that you get on thense things.
They're often full of sunfloil oil or just you not described to vegetable oil, which is going to be a seed oil.
Whole egg and olive oil. Mayonnaise.
People see whole egg on the label and think to themselves, oh, whole egg must be good. Well, sure it has an egg in it, but it's an egg in seed oil.
You know.
There isn't a commercial brand on the shelves that isn't made with sunflower oil. So yeah, Actually a couple of American brands use soybean oil, which is even worse.
But they they're all bad bad news.
The old bachelor's handbag, you know, the supermarket roast chickens. Yeah, you might look at that and think, well, there's not gonna be any seed all there. They didn't cover it in seed all before they roasted it.
No, they didn't. But the seasoning and stuffing is often pretty heavy and canola oil. It's to keep the meat moist under the heat lamps and give that skin sort of a golden sheen. So you gotta watch that one. Dips always seed oil. There are very few exceptions to that.
You know, artisan and multi grain breads, a lot of a lot of canola used in those things. You know, rice crapper crackers and veggie chips. You know, they often say things like baked not fried, but the oil is sprayed on after the baking to help the season stick to it. So you know, frozen pies and pastries, yeah, you know they're gonna they're using oil to get the crunch. And all the nut butters you know, often very very
high in seed oils. So I'm not going to read out the rest of it to you, but I also go on and talk about there's a whole bunch of products that are that are guaranteed to be seed oil free, and more importantly, how do you stop consuming them? If it's going to take you two years to get this stuff out of your system, what do you have to do to make it happen? Aside from just not eating it, well,
not eating it is a good start. But you also, and this might sort of play into an area that you have an interest in, is making sure that what you're doing exercise wise is burning fat and not carbohydrate. Because the goal here is to burn this stuff up and get it out of your body. So you want to do things that you know that what's it called the crossover. I don't know your views on the you know that there's all those graphs or crossovers and things.
You probably know more about it than I do.
So you're burning both carb and fat no matter what you do. But it's the percentages. It's the percentages. So you know, higher intensity, more carbohydrate, but it's but it's and also anyway, the bottom line is kind of lower intensity ish stuff anywhere sort.
Of sixty sixteen percent ish, sort of up to sixty percent sort of thing.
Heart rate.
Yeah.
So, and then I also put a bit in about some things that will help you liver because a lot of this, all this fat has to make its way out.
Via the liver and having increasing your antioxidants, so vitamin is a good one, you know, those sorts of things.
But and while I mentioned you could do this with supplements, you could also just do it by eating eggs, you know, for the for the colleen, and the you know.
A handful of for the vitamin E.
It's it's relatively you don't have to be popping pills to do this, but it doesn't hurt to.
To give you a liver some help.
Yeah, So for our listeners, I'm just doing some quick maths here like, and this is not perfect science, everyone, feel free to jump on ai. But a relatively recent formula for figuring out your maximum heart rate, remember this is just ballpark, is two hundred and eight minus your age times point seven. So two O eight minus your age times point seven. So let me give you an example. So let's say you're thirty five, or let's say you're fifty, so that will be two O eight minus fifty times
point seven, which comes out to thirty five. Of course, thirty five away from two to eight comes down to one seventy three, so that would be your maximum heart eight safely maximum heart rate one seventy three is or one seventy five whatever, and then you just work down from that. So if you wanted to work out sixty percent, you would just go one seventy three times point six
or seventy percent one seventy three times point seven. So that's just kind of a kind of a guide that you probably didn't need, but you might want to know, how the fuck do I figure out sixty percent of my maximum heart rate.
There you go, but let's just emphasize why it's important. You know, aside from you know, the fabulousness of exercise.
It's it's ha.
The worst ad ever for exercise. You're like the advertising booze.
Yeah, I'd probably be just as bad advertising booze as you would. But the point here is what we're trying to achieve is we want the body to get to burn fat as much as possible, because you know, if twenty percent of your body is a fat that is active hurting you, then we wanted out of your system
as quickly as possible. And some people might go there and say, well, then what I've got to do is I've just got to exercise like a loan, and that will actually be counterproductive because then you're into carbohydrate burning
and it's blocking your body removing fat. What you want to be doing is exercising at you know, that sort of up to sixty percent range, so that the body is utilizing fat and preferably you know, the fat you want to get rid of, but it'll be utilizing all fat, but targeting getting that fat out of your body.
I have a quick story. The other day I finished a workout and I don't drink many protein drinks these days. But I stopped in two old seven eleven, where I usually get a coffee debuted anyway. I went, I'm going to get a protein drink, an up and go of got well new to me thing, and it's just like up and go protein. I had to look at the protein's forty so I'm like, that's a lot of protein that'll do me. I was in a hurry, paid for that, I got in the car, got in the car, I thought,
I better look at what's in it. It's like, really quite high. Up was canola oil. Yep, and seven fucking teaspoons of sugar.
I was gonna say, And is seed oil and sugar and whatever protein pill or whatever else they've thrown in there for good measure. You're essentially drinking seed oil and sugar and the worst possible combination of things you could consume.
I know. I didn't drink it. I'm like, god, God, yeah.
And it's just like you want protein anyway, because.
I hadn't eaten for a while and I just needed a little something. I know. I know you live on fucking go go Yeah, yeah, you live on lard and bacon.
That's right.
Uh mate, where can people access that article?
I just saw usual spots, but just Facebook, LinkedIn or over at David Gillespie dot org.
Just before we go, I said, does I asked chatters about the use of these oils, specifically products made by Sanitarium, typically less vegetable oils in ingredients. Depending on the variety, this may include canola oil, sunflower oil, palm oil. The oil is usually added to one improved texture and mouthfeel. Two fucking hell. Two provides fat soluble vitamin absorption.
Really free vitamin E that is required to stop them oxidizing.
Yes. Three increased calorie density. Oh, that's what we need in the world. More calories fucking l Anyway, all right mate, we'll chat off there, but to add something no, no, no, no, yeah, good chat See you next time. Thanks buddy, Thanks, thank.
You, see you. Tiff M.