I get a team. It's U project. Craig. Anthony Harper is my name. Doctor Sam is with us as she always does once a month or so from the Thriving Metropolis Buddy Cathatha, isn't it it is? Oh my goodness someone. You and I were just waxing lyrical as I do with most of my guests before we get underway, and we're trying to figure out I'm just going to be open,
open folks. This is when you have a podcast. You're always trying to think about what's a conversation that we haven't had or that we can have it in a different way, or that people want to hear about, Like what's a topic, what's an area, what's subject matter? What's a conversation? It's hopefully going to be good to listen to and relevant, but also might be of value to people as in they can operationalize something. They can go, oh, I never
thought about that. I can try that. I can put that into practice and tell me what you said to me about, like what really kind of lights you up or your main area of I guess interest and work around healing and growing and with adults and kids, and just say what you said to me, I can't articulate it well, like what is it that you love?
I think a lot of the time us when we go into helping professionals, we want to work with children, we come at it from our own place off I would say, probably wounding right where we go. I want to give kids the childhood that I never had, or I want to treat children in the way that I never got treated, you.
Know, And so we come at it from that place.
And I think what's really interesting is without even knowing it, we're trying to heal through children, or we're trying to heal before we interact with kids. You know, let's get our stuff sorted before we you know, approach them or have kids or work with kids.
And so for me, my point of interest is.
The healing and the growth alongside children, because I think that's the most powerfulest way. So that we are on this journey with kids alongside, then we're doing the work just as my which is we're trying to support them to do this work. And I feel like it's the most authentic way as well for kids to see us as not these perfect.
Beings but rather also part of the human experience.
That's interesting like I think about I think about the the dude who was the morbiley obese teenager with the eating disorder and the body dysmorphia and all the fucking emotional and psychological issues and sociological issues who was wildly insecure and hated how he looked, and then then open
the first personal training center in the country. You know me, I'm talking about sam in cause you're wondering, you know, and like me, still at sixty with you know, not massive, but I would you know, still issues like is there do I ever get insecured? Do I ever get disappointed in how I look? Do I ever feel embarrassed? Yeah?
Of course, am I Is everything resolved? No? You know, So it is interesting working alongside people that you're helping to get in shape physically, mentally, emotionally, practically while you're
kind of still on that journey yourself. And I think because even though you know, I went to the university and did EXI science and all of those things, and I trained a lot of people, and you're coming from a place of knowledge and insight and research and academia and blah blah qualifications and skills, but you're also coming from the place of yeah, I know how you feel, because how you feel I used to feel, if not exactly, that very close version of that. And also I didn't
like anyone seeing me with no shirt on. And also I got embarrassed often. And also my identity was hey Jumbo, like that was my identity, right, that was my name at school and blah blah and all that. And so I never really thought until you said that about me healing alongside the people that I'm working with. But I think that's that's kind of good in the sight.
Yeah, I mean imagine this, right, Craig, If you know, you connect back with those experiences, right, And I think that there is so much compassion and understanding and curiosity that we get from that by knowing what it feels like for a child. But imagine if you were a parent, or you were working with a bunch of young kids and there was a child there overweight and they were hating on themselves and they were now as a parent, you know.
The compassion but could be there, but you could be.
Like, oh, no, I've created this. I had these problems, do you know, So it's going to be triggering things with you. So your child or the children that you work with anything around these weight issues, his body dysmorphia would naturally bring.
Up stuff for you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And.
You're at this point in the journey where you're like, I want to take you there, like I want you to be there, but they're not there. And I think it's really hard for parents to sit in that space. They was anxiety, and they see their child being anxious, They're like, oh, of course this, this is my fault.
Like they get into this I need to fix this for them, and they get into this kind of blame shames like spiral rather than being able to separate the distinct selves and going I'm here, but I'm not them and they're not me, and I can't be projecting this stuff. But at the same time, I need to know where my influences and where it's not And how do I ground myself in my own experience, my own inner child. Yeah, without like I said, bleeding over identifying that kind of stuff.
What as much as you're comfortable to talk about your like, what what were you healing as you started working in the space and you went to union, you got your doctorate, and you built your business, and you started working alongside kids and parents, what was the healing that needed to happen for you?
So I think when I approached the industry, I wanted to like, again, give you know, kids that you know what I didn't have, and do things perfectly.
And so I started researching all the things.
Okay, so I got really a cross child development parenting stuff and so I was really prepped in my mind to be like, I am so ready for motherhood and I'm going to raise this child that knows their feelings and you know, is going to be able to regulate and do all the things. And I'm going to be
this regulated, you know parent. And then I became a parent, and I'm like, this is so unfair that a part of me knows that what a baby or a child goes through is developmental, and yet I'm making this about me. So I'm saying that their good behavior equals me being a good parent. So what does it mean for their perceived bad behavior? And I was noticing the language by the way around people saying, oh, do you have a good baby, like are they sleeping through? Are they you know,
like going all night with needs? And I'm like, hang on, so a good baby is not having needs? Essentially, and so all that I started to unpack this, I'm like, Okay, the more pressure I put on myself to be this good parent is more pressure I want to be putting on my child to be this good child.
But I don't align with that. I don't think good is to be happy and content all the time.
But that's essentially what we're saying right when we're trying to fix things for kids and keep them okay. So it really got me to start unlearning a lot of what I was learning and to re learn these things
of what is it actually to break cycles? And so you know, maybe before I thought the breaking of the cycles was to be emotionally available twenty four seven and you know, have all the right responses, but I'm like, actually, no, the breaking of the cycle is to really tap into my own inner voice around not being critical of myself, not shaming myself, not constantly putting myself down, and then creating my child the same amount of space to be able to do that and then connect with them right
being able to give them the same compassion I'm actually learning to give myself and to be able to again be okay with being in this learning and growing and healing alongside them, rather than pretending like I'm just perfect and unaffected by life.
So I'm going to give you a little revelation I had, and then I want you to give me a revelation that you had about you kind of saw things. Ah, this is how it works, and one day you went, oh, no, it isn't. It doesn't work like that, right, So my revelation was So I started in the gym industry in nineteen eighty two. I started as a gym instructor. Obviously I knew fuck all the qualifications back then were almost non existent. I worked with a guy who was actually
an exercise scientist. I think he probably had a phyz ed degree back then, and he was a pro bodybuilder. He was in very good shape and he fortunately for me, I didn't even know alive anymore. His name was Clem Ziegler, and this was in Tasmania, and my job was basically just to follow him around for six months and learned from him and do stuff, you know, put away the way to help the odd person out here and there.
But really it was almost like a trainee ship. And so I started there and then I worked in gyms and I kept learning and I kept training, man, I kept reading what I could read, but like the research and the access to great information in nineteen eighty two compared to what we've got now was minimal and also no internet and blah blah blah. And so I remember thinking, right, for me to be good, I didn't even think in personal trainer terms because they didn't really exist in Australia.
Then for me to be a good fitness professional, I've got to understand, you know, biomechanics and progressive overload and how to do movements well and what muscles do what and what muscles are involved in what movements, and how to write a program and how to write the right program for the right person based on their knees and blah blah blah blah. So it's all about physiology. It's all about the physical. It's all about muscles and skeleton and angles and weight and sets and reps and volume
and recovery. And then one day I had this revelation. I went, oh, it is about that, but it's mainly about the mind because people keep giving up, people keep stopping. All these people who joined at New Year came for three weeks like world class athletes, and then most of them didn't come back, or a few of them came back.
And I had this revelation of the importance not the unimportance of the body, of course, but it was almost like the results that we would get with our body would dependent on our ability to manage our mind when we lacked motivation, or when we lacked discipline, or when we didn't feel like doing it or like And I started to thinking about, Ah, how do I help people to keep doing the work when they don't want to
do the work? How do I help people too because everyone gets well, not everyone, but a lot of people start and then one day they don't want to do it, which is why gyms can sell vast numbers of memberships knowing that the majority of the people have a current membership won't go because the average active gym membership is pretty like fifteen per cent or something in Australia. That for me was my revelation in the hell fitness wellness
space is knowing what to do isn't enough. Having a gym membership isn't enough.
When you think about, say, the programs for PTS, it could be so focused on how many reps. Right in the progressive overload and all these different things. But that's actually inaccessible if we can't get through that first gate, like you said, is how do you just keep showing up for yourself? How do you adapt this? How do you get through? Like you said, your mind? So what we think is the problem, which is perfectly designed, well balanced exercise plan, isn't actually the problem.
It's going back.
It's I mean, it's definitely one of the ingredients. Hey, if you've got good gym equipment, if you got but you know, like I've spoken in prisons many times, many times, and I go in and these dudes are in an environment where there's fuck all, Like there's not much equipment because they're not allowed. They can't have dumb bells because they'll fucking kill each other, or bar bells because they'll
hit each other over there. So they have it depends where actually, but some prisons that most ones have been in a high security and yeah there's not much, but these guys figure out how to train productively and effectively and get a lot out of what they've got to work with.
Right, It's the adaptability and the flexibility. And I think that's like if you look at the health and the fitness things. A lot of people struggle to do that. They're like, I've got this perfect plan and it's one hour and it has to be the gym, and then life doesn't go that way, and they're like, how do I adapt this to dumb bells only? How do I adapt it to half the session and still show up? I think it's the ability to keep showing up for yourself, right.
I think so? I think so. And also, you know, to realize that wants it or not like it or not like you doing your job. Other parents are going to look at you and how you parent, so like it or not. They really want to know how. Oh the bloody queen of the world, doctor Sam, let's see her being a mum. Let's see what she does. She's all telling us what to do and what not to do, or what the research says and what the data tells it.
Whatever you know, and the same for me. I know if I turn up to do a gig, a speaking gig, and part of what I'm there for is health, wellness, performance, high performance, physical, mental, emotional. If I turn up, same guys, same knowledge, same energy, same vibe, same communication skills, but I look unfit and unhealthy, I lose instant credibility. So there's a level of expectation and pressure that will Craig.
You need to kind of be a walking, talking version of what it is your selling or what it is you're sharing or educating people on. And it shouldn't be that way.
It shouldn't be that way. But also imagine if you always was just in that shape. So you're in a good shape and you've always been in that shape, and people expect that to be the standard. What about let's just say you weren't okay, and then past journeys, you're going from not being in that shape to being in that shape. Doesn't that give more credibility because you know what it's like to be on the literally opposite end of that.
Well, only if people have that context. If they're just a bum on a seat and you're a dude on a stage, they have no idea of who you are. And you walk out and you're sixty two like me, and you're in a pair of jeans and a black T shirt and you're in quite good shape. You know, no ego intended there, but I mean not bad shape. You walk out and people go, oh, it kind of seems to walk his talk and it's well and good to go. Well, it doesn't matter if you've got the knowledge,
and it doesn't matter what you look like. Yeh, only in theory. In the real world, if there's a room full of people and you don't look like you're doing what you're asking them to do or suggesting they do, they don't trust you, they don't respect you.
So do you think it's but then do you reckon?
They're the layers, right, So the layer is for example, let's just say they're saying, oh, yep, Sam suggests people to go to the gym for their mental health a CA and I choose not to good to the gym one day because I want to rest. They might be like, Okay, she's being inconsistent with what she's saying. She's telling everyone to go to the gym, and here she is just resting at home. Well, if we just go underneath that, the bottom bit is actually for me to go. I
need to start listening to myself. And some of that is that compassion and going, you know what, I need to rest, I've got a headache. And the other part is that accountability and going you know what future me needs that, so what looks like me being inconsistent is actually still working within my philosophy of life is I don't want to abandon myself in both ways.
I don't want to shrink and I don't want to.
Yeah, sure, I agree. Yeah, I think it's though you're talking about the micro compared to the macro. The micro is I'm going to have a couple of days off here and there because I'm fucked. I'm like, yeah, totally, and you should me too. But it's like, well, most of the time, do you do most of what you say? And the answer is yes, well, well good. And do you need to be a maniac?
No?
Do you need to be you know, like an addict to the gym or no, in fact, please don't be that. And if you wake up and you're genuinely exhausted and you're meant to train and your body is telling you no, then don't go like, we still need to be smart. But I think that when you I guess it's I put up a post the other day and later on
I thought maybe it was a bit mean. I don't know if it was, but it said something like basically like, don't trust a life coach whose life is shit, you know, And I remember talking it doesn't matter but to a person and they'd just done this life coaching course and I knew them, and I'm like, and not judging, I just knew the state that their life was in. It was fucking chaos and there were so many things. I'm like, ah,
well done for doing the course. But I would not send anyone to you because I know you're not doing these things. So maybe you've got a bit of paper and maybe you've got some knowledge, but unless I see you walking the talk or living that knowledge and producing results, I would not send people to you, even though you have a qualification. Like I think the heart though when.
You think about like when you said about seeing results right, because what if someone you do have people say four times, full down, nine times, get up, ten times kind of thing. What if it's mid transformation, what if it's in the messy bit Like because I agree with what you're saying, I feel like it happens so much. So it's like, for example, the relationship coach that needs a perfect relationship.
She has a really good relationship and she feels amazing about it and she's coaching people, and then her relationship breaks down, her partner cheats on her and he goes away. Then she feels like crap about it. She doesn't want to do your work anymore. She just wants to forget all of her experiences, all of her stuff. She feels like an impostor how do we help people compartmentalize that?
Right off? It's not that your philosophy has changed.
You've just you've faced the situation that you didn't anticipate and you're still in the thick of it and navigate.
Yet. Yeah, No, that makes total sense. And I respect that. I guess because you know, when dawned on me that while I'm saying this to you and the audience, I know this person and I have them in my head right now, and if I could describe what their life is or was actually was at this stage, you would all go, oh, I get it right. So I'm not being nasty. But to their credit, they have really done in one eighty this was probably I was a long
time ago. It's probably a decade ago. I haven't seen them much, but they've really got their shit together, and you know, which is great. But yeah, and I but I think that that I actually think when you talk to people about one of the normal human challenges around whatever it is, whether it's parenting, whether it's getting in shape, or whether it's relationship coaching, or you know whatever, And you mention, by the way, I still struggle with this, you know, but this is this has been for me.
You know. It's like I have a pretty good understanding of how the body works. Yep, not a total, but a pretty good understanding of the body from a nutritional and a clinical and an exercise physiological, biological, psychological, neurological, cognitive. I have a pretty good probably better than the average person on the street, maybe because I've done a bit
of study. But at the same time, I can talk about things that seem to work and be effective while saying I struggle with this bit though I'm with you. You definitely don't need.
To have Maybe it's the way that you deliver it.
As in, like you said, with this guy, right, let's just say he's let's just say he's a I don't know. We've got someone that's a parent coach and they're like coaching, do not give your kids screens at all? And then they're going and their kids are on screens. You know, most hours of the day. Right, that example of maybe the guy that you're saying, which is his life super chaotic,
he's preaching this other thing. It's very different from peerage coach and going hey, so these are the pros to screens, here are the cons. I'm still working out for my family where that like kind of line is or where.
That balance is, these are things to consider. You make that choice.
Can I feel like that's the difference, right, and kind of coming at it from a place of expertise and going hey, these are this is what I've learned, but ultimately right, you've got to figure out where that is for you.
I'm still going with that, and I'm still tweaking and learning.
Versus the other person who's like, no screens at all, it's so bad, and then purposely doing the opposite, is that you reckon the difference.
I think so. I think that's you know, it's also and again, this is me. This is not me speaking as a professional. This is me speaking as a human me. It's just a fucking regular bloke. But for me to listen to somebody, I need to respect them and trust them. I don't necessarily need to love them. I like them, but if I'm like, ah, like I had this doctor specialist who is helping me with some stuff, just you know what was it? Was it my ears, I think was my ears and not my current guy, my past guy.
And I didn't love him. It's like he had the worst bedside manner. He just but that dude was fucking smart and like he just I'm like, oh, well, I don't need to like you or think you're a great human, but for what I need, which is I need someone who really understands this and can answer my questions well, and like you're my guy, So thank you. You're great.
You're right, And I think in your industry, the visuals
are probably the fact. Like with an ear thing, right, it's very like you're waiting for them to talk about it, but with your thing, it's very visual and like, kind of coming back to what you said, I feel like I've gone to like when I've had pets in the past and I've kind of, you know, joined in your gym and they kind of give you that intro session and sometimes the female that's doing it has a different body shape to what I'm looking for, or they're training
different areas that I'm not particularly interested in. Training and so, and then they start talking, right, and they're like, yep, this is a split that you know, I think is going to be good.
And I'm like, I see that you're very good at what you.
Do, but it's not the look I'm going for, or it's not part of my goals, And so I get what you mean. Around you kind of you do have this sense of respect and trust for someone when what they're saying kind of matches up to what you're seeing as well.
And it's a life what you want one.
Hundred percent also, which may or may not have been what you're alluding to. Some this is very specific to my industry or my my industry most of my life. Some trainers basically train different people the same way, yes, which annoys me. Right, It's like, nah, bro, this is this is why it's called personalized exercise prescription. It's like everybody comes to you. You're a doctor. They've all got different ailments. You all give them fifty milligrams of the same drug.
Yep, so GENERIOI them, you give.
Them all account Yeah, it's like, oh, well let's take this this is pain killer. Well yeah, but you gave that to her. She weighs fifty kilos way one hundred and twenty kilos. I've got neck pain, and she's got a sore big toe because she's got an infection or whatever it is. You know, So in this particular example, I think people being able to go. Sam, tell me about you. Tell me about your training background, Tell me what you want to do, Tell me about any injuries
you have, Tell me about any medication you're on. Tell me a bit about your sleep, a little bit about your food, a little bit about your lifestyle. Tell me about the kind of stuff you like to do and hate to do. And when you say you want to be strong, do you mean absolute strength, do you mean power speed? Do you mean muscular endurance? Do you want to do you want to build muscles so change the way you look a little bit? Or do you just want strength or you know? And also tell me what
cardio do you do? You know roughly how many steps you walk a day? Do you want to change your body composition or kind of keep of how it is? You know? There are so many questions that I can ask you that give me so much information, and then I can design an individually based program for you. And it would be a program that I would never do or want to do. But it isn't about what I prefer or what I like. It's about your body's needs. That's prescription and.
That see that in itself right is where your value is as a coach. It's not necessarily then how you look it's going. I may look like this this is for my goals where I'm at, but hey, I'm here to help you discover you. So I'm on my journey doing me, but this is actually about you. And I think that's another important distinction as well, because yes, we don't want leaders to say, hey, I'm doing this and it works for me, and all you guys should be doing the same. It's like, no, I'm in this process.
I'm saying my conditioning about me what I want in my life. But I'm here to help guide you to get what you want out of life, not what I.
Want to out of life or not what I think is the measure of success. But what you define is that?
So yeah, yeah, one of my the last gym that I had was quite very big. It was the biggest personal training center in Australia, so like a really large space, a thousand square meters ten thousand square feet and heaps of equipment. There was an indoor running track, like he could run a one hundred meters lap inside the building, right. There was just like lots and lots of stuff, and so you could train people really well because you could always get equipment. There was you know, you never had
to wait for anything. And I remember one day I came into work and one of my newish trainers who didn't last very long, he'd written a program up on the whiteboard in the morning. It was like quarter past six, and he was training a person and he'd written the program and they were working off the whiteboard, and then at seven o'clock he rubbed out that person's name and wrote another name on top of the exact same program. And I'm like, we're going to have a chat. But
it wasn't appropriate that I chat to him then. And then at eight o'clock, you know what happened. So he had three clients in a row, and then I said, come have a chat, and I went, okay, so tell me about your last three clients. And he's like, what do you want to know. I'm like, well, do they all have the same goals? He's like no, I go do they all have the same body and genetics. No, are they all the same fitness and strength? Do they have the same and do you figured it out right? Dude?
That is not personal training. That is not high level exercise science or delivery. That is the laziest shit I've ever seen. And he didn't love that there.
And I feel like what you were saying about walking the talk right, if he was really committed to his training and he's doing this for him, he's got a coach, or he's doing it for himself, right, Well, he's got goals and he's tweaking it and.
Optimizing it for him.
I feel like that's then the follow through with your clients and going I'm doing this with my training and I'm super excited about it, and this is why I'm working towards This is your plan, and this is why I tak you towards your goals, and this is what we're going to keep tweaking. That's how I see the living what we preach. Right, It's in that way of going, I'm doing this for myself and I'm getting the benefits, but I'm on this journey too, but I'm here to help you do this yourself.
Obviously, the way that you work with kids, even if you're trying to create the same outcome, whatever that is. You know, a more functional kid, a less anxious kid, are happy at whatever. Right. I don't know, but I imagine that the way that you approach that same goal with different children is different. I'm sure it's similar in some ways. But knowing that this kid's on the spectrum and that kid's not on the spectrum and this, you know whatever,
then I think what about with parents? Because parents are all different. Some parents are high maintenance, some are not. Let's be blunt and honest, and they'd say it, I'll say it. Some people are hard work, some people are you know, a bit tricky sometimes but pretty good. And then some people are like a ray of sunshine in
your day. Do you when you are talking to them or you're explaining what's going on, or how careful do you have to be about how you navigate that conversation, because I feel like some people will bring their kid to you and then tell you what to do.
And this is a really tricky bit.
And I know I'm not the only child therapist that has experienced this, because I've supervised quite a few, and they say the same thing where the child is technically the client, and so we're trying to advocate for the child right and we're trying to explain things from the child's.
Perspective and point of view.
But the parents are super defensive, naturally, because how they perceive it is you're this expert and you're telling me that I'm doing this wrong and I should be doing this and there's a right way, and I'm on the opposite end of that, and so they've already kind of got their defenses up if they feel like this is all my child, Like this is not me, this is them, and we just need to fix that problem and everything
will be okay. And so I feel like it's so much easier to work with a parent with them arrived at this place where they're like, I know my child needs support.
But I also need support.
It's triggering a lot in me, and like, I'm going to be honest with you here, I would love to respond in this way, but I'm responding in this other way. I would like to, you know, live my life, but here I am just stopping everything because I'm just in survival mode. And when you have parents like that, you're like awesome. So this is what you're taking on, which is not your responsibility. You know, your child's a separate sense of self, and this is what will work on in therapy.
But here is your.
Points of influences. Here are potentially the needle movers. Give them a ranger things. What do you think is going to make the most difference here.
And then there.
I feel like they're already at this place of like, Okay, yep, I'm ready to work on these things. And it's not the things that they think, you know, Like I said, I say this a lot. A lot of parents come to me and they're like, I just need more patience. And what we end up finding is that no, they just need to eat in the afternoon because they're expecting to be calm and do dinner for their child and
they're running on empty. Like let's get a protein shake in you so your blood sugar is regulated, or let's get you extra childcare or support. Because it's not that you need more patients or more skills or more you.
Know, breathing techniques.
You actually need space, just put down the responsibility and come back to yourself. So it's the things that they don't expect, right, So I kind of have to work with them though on what is the need of mover for them? What is actually the issue, because it's not
often what they think it is. It's we keep going through the layers and going back to the childhood conditioning and going back to their expectations, you know, off their child, off their own parenting and meeting themselves where they're at
and meeting their child where they're at. And I think, ultimately, honestly, what it comes down to is repairing the connection with themselves, repairing and the child being able to connect with themselves and then coming back together and connecting in the parents our relationship. And we can't do that with a parent who is shaming themselves and putting themselves down, and its defensive.
We really need to get them to start yet preparing that connection with themselves.
Do you ever have a situation where parent, mum or dad or maybe both come in and you're like, the kid doesn't have a problem. You do, the kid's actually all right? I think, like you make the kid anxious, I don't think or that must be tricky when you see that mum and dad are in some way small to big contributing to the problem.
We all are as parents, if we're really honest with ourselves, because if we see it as it's our perception of the problem, and if we can, I think it's way more effective to work with parents on their perception of the problem and they find that everything else flows so easily from them, and they will start to be able to support their child in ways that they couldn't have even
imagined when they just shift their perspection. Because this is a long term game, Like you're not going to just send a kid to therapy for ten sessions and then you're never having to deal with mental health or wellbeing.
Again, this is like a daily practice here. We all have mental health.
And so for me, yeah, it's if we can take that in a non shamey blame way and going it is actually us, but it's us in the ways of it's not all about us. You know, we are influencing some bits but other bits. Is actually a natural part of life. And how do we just use the environment to support the child, right, and how do we actually also start to support ourselves to live a full life so that we again descend to the problem. We often blow up the problem.
Yep. So child's experience is one issue and we're like, this is it. It's everything.
We don't know how to put it back to where it belongs. Yep, this is a struggle. But let's grow all this other good stuff, Like, let's focus on all these other things, because we are actually functioning generally well if we looked at it in the bigger picture scheme of life and build the connection around that too, and systems support us.
I don't know if there's an absolute answer to this, but as best you could guess, what are the top three reasons that people bring their parents? People bring people bring their kid. Imagine bringing your parents. I might come and see you. I'll bring Ron and Mary bring their kids in. What are the top three reasons? It can be broad, it can be specific.
Okay, I'll go with the top three, and I think what you're asking for, but then I'll just summon up to one. So I think if you look at just in a general seface level thing, we've got.
Anxiety, we've got anger, and we've got I would say.
I wouldn't say depression, probably like school issues, right, like not wanting to go to school, friendship issues, those things. So they're the three surface level things. If you look at what it says on the referral. But if I sum it up to one core reason, it is breaking generational cycles. So many parents approaching therapy and going I know that I didn't really have the best emotional support growing up, and I don't.
Want that for my child. I want to normalize.
Them being able to talk to someone about their problems, about their feelings, getting support, and so that is, honestly the core of it, I think is them trying to break these cycles.
Wow, is such I'm actually I think I'm going to call the episode that that is. And so do parents often hand down? Like do you see evidence that parents are handing their issues down to their kids?
We all are when you think about it, And I'm not saying handling issue. It's not so much issues down to the kids, it's we all have childhood conditioning. So for the first what seven years, it's almost like our default operating system gets programmed into our brain. How we see the world, how we respond to things, how what is love right? You know, all these rules about the world and whether it's parents or the society or other.
People in their lives.
But the first seven years, and that is an operating system that we take onto all other relationships and going out in the world. The issue is we don't kind of go back to that unless there's some kind of major trauma that we experience will neglect to whatever else. We don't actually go back to that and going what lessons did I learn about these things and how to again respond to my own anxiety or my feelings and
how is that impacting my life now? And what you're going to find is a lot of parents have scarcity, you know, of the world. They have this fear they have this is the where good parents are, and this is what a good child is, bad parent is, and all of that kind of stuff. And if we don't go back to that, we're not going to know what unconscious scripts are running our lives because essentially it's like ninety five percent unconscious, right, five percent conscious?
So oh good, yeah, surely good terms. Yeah.
So I don't think it's like, let's sort out of issues, so we don't, you know, projecting some one to our kids. It's like the issue is pretending that we don't. It's owning that we do, and that we come with our own set of beliefs about the world and our stories about the world and ourselves.
And our kids.
It's owning that so that we can continue to work on them while we're continuing to parents. I think that is, to be honest, The key to it's it's those who have had parents growing up and they're like, I know something is wrong and they're going through things, but they're pretending they're perfect and they've had no influence on us, or they're like, yes, it's all my fault.
You know one experience, Yeah, yeah.
Do you ever have parents to come in, mums and dads and they disagree on what's going on, like and you need to sort that out first of course.
And you know why though, because we want someone to blame, and it's easy because we can see things better from an outside perspective. So the mom will be like, I know what his issue is. He handles it in this way and this is what's contributing to this. And then the dad will be like, I only do this because you're handling it and this way other extreme, and I
need to balance it out. So it's not who's right or wrong again, it's them going back to how are they responding the parents child relationship in its context, and how do we work on that rather than conflict between who is right and wrong. Let's just actually let's just say that that's not a thing, and it's going How am I showing up for my child? Is it out of fear and conditioning or is it out of this intentional value place? And how do I keep working on that?
And I think the main thing to do here is separate the two yep, about.
Who's right and wrong.
It's just different levels of conditioning, and we're trying to work on our own stuff.
We've got to wind up. But I've got one I want you to refon for a little bit because I'm fascinated with this. Quite a few of my friends are going through real challenges in the moment with this, Like right now, one of my best friends got a child that does not want to go to school. School avoidance seems like it might be some kind of flow on effect maybe for some from COVID and two years stuck
at home and all of that. I don't know what the relationship, if any, is, but just talk to us about kids not wanting to go to all the rise in kids not wanting to go to school.
Yeah, the anxiety is really peaking, I think with a lot of the school issues and sometimes the problem is with anxiety, we're trying to go, Okay, we're trying to do things differently in honor it. So we're going to adapt things for the kids, and sometimes we take it too far where we add to the anxiety because the number one default way we handle anxiety's avoidance, and sometimes by adapt to the environment so much like let's be child led, we end up then supporting a kid to not go to school.
Yep. Yeah, So it's almost there's no right or wrong answer with this at all.
It's a spectrum, but it's trying to figure out do we need to change the environment more in terms of it's actually the best fit of the school for the child, Is there other things going on here that we can find a better environment, or do we need to make this a non negotiable but then focus on things that they can control. So it's like, yep, school's happening, But what do you need, Like what is that.
The core of this? Right? What is your end goal?
Because for a lot of kids, they have strengths, it's sports, it's something right, and so it's kind of really trying to tap into that for them and going Okay, this is how we get there, and so then.
We descenter school from it.
Right, School's just the part towards them creating this life that they love, the day that they love. So it's like we have this bit in the morning and then yet they're school, but then there's this other bit right where they're working on all this other stuff that they love.
There's no right or wrong answer to it, but I think knowing that the kid has the answers to this, we need to figure out ways and I think play therapy is obviously great for that too, but we need to be able to find ways to really get to the core of the issue and also know how we responding to the anxiety. Are we contracting, are we trying to make so many concentstions that we're actually adding to this or are we again yeah, porting them through this
and making the appropriate adaptations. And there's no right or wrong answer, but I think it does really require a holistic approach, and for the adults around going, let's be honest, like what are we Are we being driven by the child's feelings or are we actually being this grounded lighthouse where we're trying to guide them and we're not being reactive?
Yeah, that's what I want to be a lighthouse just the ocean.
I love it that and I just keep using it.
Yeah, I like it. You know what I'm going to say about you, doctor Sam. You're very good at your job. But also we get banged for buck because you talk at about one point five, which I've pointed out, but I've adjusted, my processing speed has adjusted. I'm not sure all my listeners have, but we get about seventy minutes of words in a forty five to fifty minute conversation. So thank you. It's great value, I hope.
So I think I'm just making it more efficient for all the listeners.
Right, I think time, Well, the beauty of it is you can you can do seventy minutes worth of talking and they can always listen to this on zero point eight so they can slow it down. You can get a seventy minute podcast done in less time. Bibby Bobby Boo. Dr Sam Casey. Where do people find you? If they want to find you?
On Instagram at Dr Sam Casey or on my website which is www dot doctor Samcasey dot com.
Thank you for coming to play. We appreciate you and are you back in full swing? Because it's we're recording this on the thirtieth of jan thirtieth September. Is it thirty thirty one? Is it thirty one in January.
That's a good question.
We should know that people are going to go, You're so fucking stupid. You I thought it was all right. Well, good luck for the rest of you. Thank you so much, and we look forward to spending time with you through twenty twenty six. And we appreciate you.
Thanks Craig, appreciate you having me on.
Thanks Sam,