I get eight champs.
It's Bobby, it's young Bobby and craiggo here at me, Central typ Central, just doing.
What we do. It's what is it? It's I don't know. I tell everybody you probably don't give a fuck, but just in case you do. It's Thursday.
As I record this, it's twelve eight on the twenty month of the month, twenty ninth of the month known as January. It is the twenty eighth right now where Robert is and it's twenty one degrees in Melbourne, which is way better than the forty sixth we had the other day.
Hi mate, how are you?
Eh?
How's it going? Happy to hear you have a more favorable, favorable, favorable, favorable weather pattern. Yeah.
What is favorable exactly?
Is that like femoral or ephemeral or theorial weather.
The weather pattern is so much more favorable than it has been. You're excited about it. You have great feavor toward the weather pattern.
Wow. Wow, jot that down, everybody. There'll be a test at the end.
What are you up to on your Wednesday night over there in the bloody us of A Because, by the way, from the outside looking in, it seems that not much is going on over there. It seems pretty quiet, business as usual no here, Yeah, yeah, nothing peaceful, everything's great. Yeah yeah, no, it seems that way, so good luck with that. Do you try to keep your head down? Do you keep your head up ever alert?
Or do you? How do you? Because there is a lot going on.
Of course we're being facetious and we'll get to our topic at hand in a moment, but how do you mentally and emotionally somebody who gets a bit anxious from time to time, as you've shared on the show, and who has a propensity to overthink, how do you navigate that personally?
Well? I do keep my head down mostly when I'm crying, but other than that, I try to focus on what needs to be done today and for who and why. And I'm not saying I'm always effective at that, especially now where social media. It's like Jesus, I haven't checked social media in a few hours, like is there still a world out there outside of my building, outside of my office? And I find myself going back into doom scrolling quite a bit, to be fair, So I don't
know if I'm really handling it well. But what does help me is if I have a meeting or I'm working on a project now that I feel quite serious about, and to focus single mindedly on that and try to lose myself. That gets me out of my head. That eliminates distractions for a bit. You know, if if I'm looking directly in one direction, what of the way can you look in one direction? Indirectly looking in one direction?
But anyway, if I'm if I'm focused on one direction, it kind of blinds me from all the other things of my periphery that will grab my attention in a non constructive way, so to speak.
It feels like potentially the dumbest advice and the most common and dumbest advice simultaneously in the history of human behavior and psychology and sociology is when we tell worried people not to worry, which is as useful as telling a tall person not to be tall. As I've said before on this show, because everyone's worried, including me at some stage about something. I'm going through some stuff with my mum and dad, which is for them right now
pretty uncomfortable and disconcerting. It's just to change. They're eighty six blah blah blah, and I realize sitting with them, loving them, listening to them, trying to understand them even when they're their anxiety or fear or apprehension is a nine out of ten about something that I think warrants is zero. I know that me going hey there isn't
actually a problem. The problem is you're thinking. I know that that doesn't help, and I know that although the story might be bullshit, the experience that they're having is very real.
Right, So how do you like when you're fearful or you're worried, or you start to elevate?
Do you have a particular strategy? Because I think this is everyone listening. Everyone listening goes well there. I want to know the answer to this, because fuck, I worry about fucking everything or a lot of things, and it doesn't matter how much I worry, It doesn't change the outcome.
And I know that intellectually but nonetheless emotionally, this is my response.
If I can. Because your environment has a lot to do with this, I find it helps to move to change my environment, get from one place to a completely different place. Walk start Like if you are someone who is out and about between meetings your workday, you're running an errand, like, get that movement in I mean movement, it's really effective. You know, eat, you're on nature eoretic pabtize or release from the heart when you move, and
that mitigates stress hormone levels on the body. It decreases quarters, all levels. Very effective if you're somewhere where you can run an errand and just park a little bit further from that. I mean, it sounds so cheesy, but it's not changing your body, changing your physiology. Moving you know, rather briskly with a sense of purpose helps me enormously.
That's so true, dude, And I know you're right, it does.
It sounds cheesy, it sounds cliche, it sounds repetitive, but nonetheless, many people I'm not talking about necessarily our listeners. I'm sure a percentage from time to time, but just don't do that thing like I remember. At the end of twenty twenty three, the University of South Australia came out with the results which were splashed all over the media for about eight minutes of a study comparing medication for depression.
To exercise.
So one one group of people dealing with depression suffering from depression. However, we want to word it, frame it. They did a ten week I think it was ten week. You can look it up everybody. It might have the numbers wrong, but ten week intervention of exercise and versus no exercise, plus you know, the normal kind of pharmaceutical approach. And obviously know what I'm going to tell you. The people who took no medication but exercise consistently, consistently and appropriately for.
Them where they were.
You know, it wasn't all everyone doing the same program, but they're doing the right program for them. It outperformed the medication by one hundred and fifty plus percent, right, And we go, oh, that's fucking amazing. And then nobody takes it up. Everyone just goes, yeah, look at that.
Yeah.
I finally I wonder, I wonder why. I wonder why that is. And what we're not saying is if you are on prescribe medication, like just start exercising and start taking you prescribe mads. We are not saying that, And we're not saying if you're in therapy exercises a substitute. What we are saying is it's definitely something that you can do in conjunction to quite an afficacious effect.
We have a lady who's been on the show a bunch so did. Her name is doctor Ingrid and she's a psychiatrist at Royal Adelaide Hospital and most or as many of her appointments as she can do walking, she does. So people come to her office at the hospital. Obvious she doesn't walk all day, but she does quite a lot of them, and she's like, put on your jacket or put on your whatever we need what cever weather appropriate,
and off they go. They walk forty five minutes or whatever the time they get back and she said to me, I get much better outcomes. People are more open, people are more responsive, people are more you know, it's like just sitting in a spot thinking about your shit isn't as effective or often isn't as effective as you know, even doing the same thing.
But you know, while being mobile, while being you know, walking along what's that river in perse Sorry it's so stupid of.
Me right now, but anyway, actually, yeah, the you know, amongst the trees and the grass, and you know, it's like much better outcomes.
So yeah, I agree with you.
Sorry I interrupted, You're going to say something swamp just thank you swan river, thank you go.
That's not what I was going to say. But what I was going to say is I wonder, way, I wonder why people don't get into a consistent habit of movement. I wonder what gets in the way.
Actually, do you think that people have a story, Like now, I'm not an exercise person.
Yeah, and you know it's like we all have stories around our identity, what we are or what we're not, and obviously that profoundly shapes our behaviors. Yes, but I'm not even talking about exercise. For me, it's like what is the lowest hanging fruit, Like, what is the easiest place to start where it's almost ridiculous not to do it and start there, because if you get into the habit of consistent movement, that will do an enormous amount of good to support you getting into a habit of
consistent exercise. If that's where you're even looking to go, but just start somewhere, start moving, because the thing is what movement? You'll feel better once you start doing it. It's not like, oh, well, I've been exercising for four weeks and I still haven't achieved the body of my dream. You'll start feeling better the week you're moving. It's just a matter of a lot of times. Our environment is
so structure to prevent movement. Like right now, for example, we're sitting down, but we're virtual, we're behind the screen. Tomorrow night I have a webinar, I'm gonna be sitting down. Normally I would be standing up and moving around the room dynamically, but I'm sitting down. Then, think about people who work remotely. They have one meeting after the next, like they didn't have time to go to the loo.
They're sitting there and nappies like guzzling water. It's like, that's that's not That's not an environment conducive to movement, is it? So our whole environment used to be structure on the necessity to move. Oh my goodness. So today I was coming back from the gym early this morning and they were already working on the lift, Like, oh, sorry, you know, lifts are down. It's like, you know what. I live on the sixth floor. Each story has two
flights of stairs between it. That's twelve flights of stairs. He was like, I'm gonna get my ass up the stairs. I was like, why don't I do this more often?
A hundred you should fuck that elevator off.
Out of your life, Like I understood why I used to live on the thirtieth floor. They get, but I live on the sixth floor. That's twelve flights of stairs. I mean, and look if that seems like a lot, like take take the lift up to the fifth floor and just like walk up to the six Just constantly expand your capitalization on the opportunities that you have to move. Yeah, when I live in cities, man, have you move a lot? Because there's no other choice.
I think.
Also, you know when people are like I'm not an excise person, or I don't like the gym, or well, one, you don't need to go to a gym.
And also you don't need to be an excise person. You just need to be a person who has a body and bodies like to be moved.
Bodies need to be moved, Bodies need mobility, bodies need their heart rate to go up and down a bit. You know, bodies need to be put under under a level of stress an intelligent, strategic, and consistent way. Because there's not one person.
That goes I'm not an excise person that if you said, would you like to be a bit fitter stronger, healthier. I would say, no, I wouldn't like that. Like if everyone was being honest.
Of course, everyone go, yeah, I'd like to be a bit fitter, healthier, stronger. Whatever that looks like, well cool, there's an easy way to do it. And you do this for ten minutes a day, or five minutes a day or five minutes three times a day, or you know, you don't have to start running marathons. You might start just like you were talking about walking six flights or twelve flights or however many fucking flights.
But yeah, it just seems that there's.
I don't know, I have some unpopular theories about why, which I won't mention, but I will kind of.
I just think that we are.
Physically anyway, not as resilient as we once were, because for most of our human experience as a species, we haven't had elevators, we haven't had escalators, we haven't had paved roads and footpaths and automobiles and motorbikes, and you.
Know, for most of human existence we had none of that. And we're just so.
Extracted from just normal physical expenditure, energy expenditure, and movement, and yeah, that we that we like you said, we spend our lives sitting down.
Hey, have you ever wondered do you reckon? Do you reckon?
If we did an IQ test standing up versus sitting down, Let's say all the other variables were the same, Right, it's not like we've been sitting for eight hours. But let's just say we got up, we did our normal day, and then it. You know, person A at ten o'clock did a stand up test? Person be at ten o'clock did a sit down test. Do you think there's any difference?
I don't know. I mean I think IQ is one of those things that was like it's fairly fixed throughout your lifetime. But how you would perform on that test, I would imagine I make a bit of a difference. Yeah, I mean I know when you sit me there, and this is one of the frustrating things. It's like everything in the work environment, like you go to do anything and it's like, all right, so sit down here. It's like I do not think well when I'm seated at all.
That is interesting.
Yeah, if I stand up and I start moving, even when I had and you know, I don't recommend like somebody's at a standing desk all day long like that can be problematic. But when I was able to go from sitting to standing, or a lot of times I
would work on a high table. So when a lot of my job dependent on writing and you got to write like eight articles a month, which you know it is not easy, I would just work at a standing desk and just stand and then pace around, gather my thoughts and come back and write down what I just came up with and go pace again. I was like, we get so much more done than if I was just sitting down like writing, because the thought would be so much more fluid. So I performed better when I'm moving.
Yeah, sometimes when I do a gig, I like sitting on stage because I like sitting down with the group. Or often i'll do something in a boardroom like I'm sure you've done, Like I've literally done gigs.
I've done it.
I've done a whole afternoon with three directors of a company in a room, like my audience was three people, and I've done four thousand in an outdoor event. Right, it's just crazy. But the obviously the experience is very different. But even with a group of people in a room, we're sitting in a boardroom at a big table, and it might be it's only been three once, but generally it's like ten or twelve people. Like it's a very small group. But I can't sit there forever like I
need to. I don't know, I feel like my brain works a bit better like you when I move, like if i've and my probably my addiction in their space is you know, whiteboards, because I love to just to I'm going to talk about idea and I'm just going to write that word on the board. Then I'm going to riff on that. Then I'm going to draw a line coming from that word, and I'm going to write another word right then I'm going to build this little
kind of you know, intersection and interface of words. It all kind of focus around this middle word here and then like for me, it's with the It gives them something to look at other.
Than me for a moment.
And when I'm I don't know, when I'm writing on a white board and there's that I like it sounds silly, but I like writing like I write. I like writing well on a board like it's for me it's creativity. And when I do that, it's like another bit of my brain gets accessed as well.
So my brain works through association. I'm not like a linear thinker, although I've trained myself to be a little bit more over the years, but I'm the same way. If I write a word on a board that's relevant to something, that just sparks my creativity instantly, I know what to say. I don't write now. I look like I'm like a chemist writing on a board basically, but.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell people what linear thinking is.
I don't have like a structured outline and thinking in numerical order like okay, this precedes this, and then the next step would be I mean, you know, I use acronyms a lot, which structures and directs my thinking, but I think the association same thing. If you give me a word, it's like, oh, okay, well what connects to this word? Relevant to you know, what we're all doing here.
I have a little chat sheet which I really use, but it's one piece of a full paper and it's got I would say about eighty words on it, and the word could be which is so some of them are two words could be subjective reality, or it could be success, or it could be metacognition, or it could
be anxiety or whatever. But there's all of these words on this one page, and all of them are highlighted in about five colors, so the words all stand out, they don't really get lost, And each one of those words I can confidently talk about for twenty minutes, so I know I have give or take eighty times twenty sixteen hundred words or sixteen hundred minutes before I reach for anything else, and even then I probably have more than that. But it's like my brain likes that, where, Oh, Craig,
could you just talk to us about that? Yes, sure, let's do that. Like somebody asked me, Yeah, somebody asked me recently how long does it take to form a habit? And like, that's just an interesting question to un pack and there are so many variables, and I'm like, that's
a great question. I want to talk about that. And then we just spoke and the audience asked other questions around that, and it's like we did a twenty minute riff on just this one conversation starter to which there is no absolute answer, but nonetheless, it's a really interesting idea to lean into, you know, and that I think people you know you and I work like that I think a lot of I feel like we're doing the
thing I said not to do. But that's all right, remember back to our But communication wise, I guess just how people build connection and rapport with whether or not it's one person at work or one hundred people in a room.
I think.
When it comes to performance in any area of your life, when it comes to family, friends, when it comes to you know, given a presentation at work, sales call, or sitting down with your boss, I think there there's there's kind of contradictory dynamics. And we told we got into this a few weeks ago, a few episodes ago. I was having a conversation with you know, you know this guy, you know, Chuck Wolf right, Yeah, his wife at.
The time, it's quite well known.
Yeah yeah, I mean he's known in fitness and biomechanics circles, not generally. So we were on tour in Australia. This was great and Taylor came down to present with us later that day. So we had a hotel in Melbourne. And I love listening to Chuck because he's just captivating and brilliant. But I had heard the same thing like
five times in the course of a week. So I was just chatting to Lauren in the back of the room, and she's a very successful stage perform and I had asked her, I know I've brought this up before, what is the difference between someone who is just peerless in their space in terms of a performer, someone who's merely good? And she said, well, let's take a look at what it's not. She said, it's not talent, because if you're doing shows, you're at that level. Everybody's talented, and it's
not hard work. All of these people are working brutally hard. It's a psychological dynamic. And she said that the people who are legendary are the people who have this enormous ego and this broad and deep, beautiful sense of humility in the same persona. And I think that's important is having characteristics that balance each other out. I remember that you had said something interesting about God. You walk on
whatever stage that is. Your stage could be six o'clock in the morning, your kids all running amock, trying to get ready for school, and you're trying to organize twenty six different things because you not only have to sort the family out, but you've got a lot of things
you need to get done. That's a stage. And if you don't have something, because life is really hard and it seems like it's getting more and more complicated and harder and harder, if you don't have this intrinsic compass to say, yeah, you know what, I'm good at this shit, I am really good at this. This might be hard today, but I have got this. I could figure this out
and I've got something to contribute. I think that puts you in a space where you're not so self absorbed that you have been going to be able to focus on others because when that ego is too high, you become reformative and it's all about you and your outcomes. If your humility is too high and you have zero ego, you become invisible, which means not only do you not have the confidence and the courage to speak up or
use your talent and use your skills. Even if you did from that space, it won't really impact people because if you don't have confidence in what you're saying, if you don't have any level of certainty, other people are going to be very apprehensive around you. And we just know that that's just the way the world works. You need that balance, because otherwise life will shut you down in critical situations.
Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking about that. I think.
It's funny I write the word performing and five seconds later you said it becomes performative. Right, And there is that thing because it's almost like item gets thrown around as edutainment. You've heard that, right, kind of the section of education and entertainment.
And I know that.
Not always, but typically when I am a little bit storyteller, mildly funny guy educator, but also being in the moment a bit of an mpath where I'm kind of sensitive to the This doesn't sound like a Craig sentence, so forgive me everyone, but I'm kind of sensitive to the energy in the room and the vibe in the room and what's going on.
And how you know this is consistent with my PhD. How am I going? How am I going? For them?
Who is Craig Harp and now for them? Is he the annoying fucking buffet on the stage? Is he the insightful guy that seems like he cares? Is that you know that's not coming from security insecurity or ego. That's coming from a little bit of awareness and a desire to be good in the moment for them so that I can so they walk away and not go necessarily he was good maybe, but more importantly that was good.
I needed to hear that. That was helpful to me. And so it's very it's it's it's I don't think being I think being one hundred percent performative doesn't work at our job. I think having an element of performance often makes it better if it's.
Intertwined with integrity and real world experience and insight and reflection and science and yeah, but it's not like, oh, you need twelve percent of this, fourteen percent of that twenty two percent. There's no set formula because it's fluid, and what's great for this group ain't great for that group.
And I think it's very hard to tune in to your group when you are a lacking some level of confidence, because I think about the people who are completely self absorbed. They're always talking about themselves. It's always about them, They're the center of their universe. Well, they're not in tune to people. But most of the time these are individuals
that do not feel very great about themselves. They're struggling with some deep level of inadequacy, and you know what's funny is a lot of times people see this and it's evident, but even these individuals get up sometimes and because they're so outwardly confident, people mistake that for some level of competence. And those two things are mutually reinforcing, but they're not automatically synonymous with one of those. So a lot of the times the people who have their
ego is too large for the room. It's not a feeling of self assurance. It's the exact opposite. It's deep rooted insecurity that creates that. So you need something that makes you confident enough to put yourself in a situation where you have a voice that's going to be heard and like you know that you have something to say, you have a level of expertise, or you have a level of care let's say at home with the family.
And then once you get into that space, you can now afford to let go and turn your attention outward because it's not about you. You get yourself and get you prop yourself up. You get yourself into that state so you can tackle things, especially when things are unpredictable and they're extremely difficult, and then the key is to disappear in that situation.
H wow.
I don't know if you can do this, but I'm going to ask you. Can you explain to me ego through a positive lens and a negative lens.
I think ego is a strong sense of myself, and I think through a negative leans it is an infleetion or over focus on myself that crowd it gets so big that it crowds out my ability to view others. Yeah, the sensor to.
That, because it doesn't it doesn't get held in general. Or this is my observation. Other people will probably have a different one.
But my observation is, you know, out in the wild, in the wild of suburban Melbourne and all the other suburbans, it's not like having a big ego is a good thing.
It's generally a criticism or an insult. So do we regard it like we're not understanding what it? You know.
I think the.
Original was like in the Greek ego id id meaning the self, the self in the middle of one's fucking existence. Like because I don't think originally this ain't my area of expectise, obviously, but I don't think it was really you know, uh, held in a negative light rather than as almost just like the understanding of one's self.
If I don't understand me, I'm going to have a hard time understanding you. If I'm too over indexed and focused on myself, I'm not even tuned into you. So I think it's not a matter of is this trait good or bad? It's in what does exactly I mean? Being self conscious sometimes stops you from doing and saying things that are disruptive or damaging to yourself and others. Is it good to be exceedingly self conscious? No, it'll shut you down in just about every area of your life.
Is your ego good or bad? Well, yeah, if you have too little of an ego, you'll never do anything, never contribute to anyone. If if he goes too big, it always becomes about you, and you'll never form bonds with the people that you're out in the world with, And then what's that worth? And yeah, you know you'll
never learn, you'll never grow. So if there is, if there is a growth edge that you have that's counterproductive to your life, you're probably not even going to be aware of it, or if you're made aware of it, you probably won't accept it. So I think it's not a matter of is this attribute good? It's what's the magnitude of this attribute and what role does it play in my life? Is it serving me and others? Or is it getting in the way.
Okay, so I'm going to tell you what Chatters is telling us, and then you're going to riff off the back of this.
I just typed in for everyone. What is ego? Sure answer? Ego is the idea of me.
Along and clearer version it says, minus the woo woo, that's hilarious. Ego is the mental construct says this is who I am. It's the story your mind tells about you. Who you are, what you're worth, how you should be seen, and how the world should treat you. It's built from memories, labels, roles, beliefs, success as failures, comparisons and conditioning. Different lens, same thing. Freud said. Ego is the mediator. It manages reality, impulses and rules so you can function everyday.
Language.
Ego is equal self importance, defensiveness, don't disrespect me.
And the last lens is philosophy.
Ego is identification with thoughts, role and identity, making the story for the self. That's quite interesting, Yeah, which you take on all that, Professor Robert, Professor Capuccio.
Well, jeez, like far be it from me to like add to chart GPT the secret. But yeah, I mean the thing that sticks out for me and that is it's all story. I think it's impossible to see yourself with complete objectivity. I mean, I don't know if you could be committed to anything, love anything, value anything, or protect yourself from anything and have a completely accurate assessment of yourself and a lack of biases. But some some stories are inspiring, some stories are tragic, and it's like, yeah,
how do you narrate that story? Because you're probably right to some degree on any story you're telling yourself about you. Yeah, it's just what's your reference point, what chapter you're reading, and what's your index, what's your methodology to where you know if the first question out of my mouth? So
I was writing about this a little bit today. There's a there's a principle in the school psychology called appreciative inquiry called the construction of principle, and the construction principle pretty much says that words create worlds that we don't just go out there and discover reality and experience reality. But we co construct reality through our language, and one of those tenets is that the quality of our life is based on the quality of the questions we ask ourselves,
Like how do we direct our focus? So if I'm like, what is wrong with me? Well, I'm going to find an answer for that, and that answer because that's a very threatening question. It's saying that somehow something is dysfunctional with me and I'm going to find out what it is. And that might be a really good question later on down the line, But if you're looking to explore anything or grow anything, that's the first question you ask that's going to shut down possibilities. I think a better question
is what exactly do I want in this situation? And when have I had it? Like you said earlier, people tell you, wow, I'm just not a exercise type of person. What type of person are you? Exactly? And how did you?
How did you become that person?
Were you always this person? What happened? You know? If you take a look at one or two experiences that most powerfully shape your ability to be the person you are, now, what were those? Yeah? You aren't you know?
I think what is wrong with me? Question is disingenuous I think what is wrong with me is an intersection of self loathing and self pity. I don't think the person goes what's wrong with me is actually genuinely curious.
I think it's just it's almost just a frustration statement, you know.
I think the you know, the more aware version of that would be, well, I keep doing this thing. I've done this three times, I've got a bad outcome three times. What's what are my results telling me? Could I change the way I do it? How do other people do it?
Like?
There's a whole lot of better questions. I feel like, you know, it's almost like you Why doesn't.
Anyone like me? Or do you want me to tell you? Because you really don't want to know? Because I could probably give you a few ideas.
I don't think that nobody likes you, but I think you're a fuck of the social challenge and sit down, get your pen and paper out, and from the outside looking in, I might have a few thoughts, you know, But I think also you know that the idea of objectivity for humans is that that's in my opinion anyway, it's pretty much unattainable broadly speaking, maybe about specific things like I know nothing about this, So you tell me about it, because I know I have zero opinion, background, belief, idea,
I know nothing. Well, I'm objective, right But even then, but I think the fact that we all have, you know, cognitive bias, not some of us, all of us.
The fact that we all have emotional bias.
The fact that we are all look through our own lens of experience and life and whatever we pay attention to, our version of reality, our background, our theology, philosophy, psychology, sociology, all of the things that have intersected with us since we could reason. And now like you and I are on this podcast, is you know, you're a fifty something. I'm a sixty two year old. So I've got these two dudes who see the world. They see the way that they do a little bit of that is genetic,
but largely it's about environment, experiences, and situations. And so for me to think, even though I understand the idea of objectivity, even though I'm doing a PhD in the mind, for me to think, oh I'm objective, I'm just fucking kidding myself. That's a demonstration of ego right there. Because I have pre existing bias. I have pre existing beliefs and likes and dislikes and values and all of that shit is the lens through which I experience the world.
So I can't be objective. I would like to be.
I could, But I think a step in the right direction of being objectives is being able to recognize your lack of ability to be objective.
Like, I think you're opening the door on you know where.
Now we go.
Okay, so I believe in God.
I grew up in this environment where I was very much encouraged if not, you know, smashed over the head to believe that. Now, all these laters early years later, this is what I think.
Do I go to church? No? Do I read the Bible? Not a luck?
Do I do I? Yeah?
But also could I be wrong? Yes? I could be wrong. Could the Bible be wrong? Yes?
Could it be a work of fiction or a work of you know, or maybe a better both or well, the answer is yes. The truth is I do not know, which is also a prerequisite for faith, because if you had knowledge, then there's no need for faith.
Steps down off soapbox.
That's it. This is an interesting conversation because when you go into the duality of something or the paradox of something, could I be wrong? And what else is true? I think is enormously health healthy, not just for critical thinking, but for any type of transformation or overall well being. Because let's go back to that, like what's wrong with me? And you're saying, well, that's that's an honest question. You're
just in a state of self loathing and frustration. So if I'm in that state right and my identity is something where my story around who I am is where I get all of my security from, am I able to engage in a constructive conversation even it's like, hey, another great example uses I just had. You know, I just had these three negative outcomes based on this behavior. Maybe I want to look at that. I'm probably not
even capable of looking at it. If I'm in a what's wrong with me state, like I'm functioning out of a level of frustration and anxiety. That is not a good mental state to engage in critical thinking and creativity. So sometimes it's a matter of like, what is that story and go back and ask yourself, Okay, well what's right with me? Who am I? And what aspects of that am I proud of? And then I think once you get into that psychological state, and it opens up
for creativity, openness. You're more suggestible not only through your own thought patterns, but the insights of others. Another question could be like, well, what's the behavior that's a discrepancy between me and when I'm most proud of myself or when I'm doing what I think I need to do and the results I'm getting. There's a discrepancy there that is a much more constructive state of mind, where those those insights now land. I could go, ah, Okay, first
of all, it's not me. What's wrong with me or my behaviors are producing something. So it's still like I'm responsible, it's accountable, but it's not like a blame game. It's it's more of looking at the behavior and comparing that to what is it within your story, yourself, your ego that you value is being contradicted by these behaviors. What's gone sorry dude, kick down, kick out? And why would
you engage in those behaviors? So if it's like, I imagine myself as someone who is at my core, I'm empathetic, I'm energetic, I'm dynamic. I connect with others. But you know, the past three meetings I had at work where an epic fail because I was at the bar last night and I woke up hung over and I can't focus on the job. Well, okay, why am I doing that?
Yes?
What am I wanting there? You know what I mean?
Yes, there's a reason.
There's a reason why I'm there and not at home reading a book or not at home sitting at the table with my family, Like, what is going on? But I think starting from and this is where the whole point about confidence comes in. What is it that gets you to a point where you can engage in patterns of thoughts and behaviors and be able to look at yourself objectively without being a threat to self, to where you just will not examine that which needs to be examined.
I have an answer to that.
I believe one of the biggest problems, challenges, whatever you want to call it, in this is that people's identity is intertwined with what they believe want to believe. It's intertwined with their stories, it's intertwined with their values, it's intertwined with their version of reality and truth.
And the problem with that is when I question your version of the truth, or your ideas or your philosophy or your theology. You feel like I'm attacking you, right, and so therefore like because well, a Christian.
Is who I am, A vegan is who I am, an athlete is who I am, an EmPATH is who I am.
Right, there's all this strong identity.
So when you go, oh, look, maybe you know part of me is bothered by things too, like, for example, somebody.
Going, you know, saying something about you know, some of my beliefs God?
For example, Right, if I'm going to be brave, I need to say, well, Craig, how often do you get shit wrong? I don't know, probably ten to twenty times a day, right, how many times in the last you know, fifty years, I don't know, fucking one hundred thousand, who knows?
So do you think you're going to get stuff wrong moving forward? No, No, I don't because I know everything and I'm right.
Dude, you're not. You just want to be because being right makes you comfortable. You love being right because you hate the thought that you could be fucking wrong. You hate the thought that Bobby might know more than you, and you feel dumb and look dumb, or it's so you think, and so you have this emotion that overrides everything.
So I know what I believe. I believe certain things I really do, but also I don't know that they are true, but I believe them nonetheless, which is as I said, it's a it's faith in operation, right. So I think that's the challenge, is that when.
Someone believes something they don't believe, they could be wrong. That's a problem because we're fucking wrong all the.
Time, you know.
And if you are, you go If I am my beliefs, well, my beliefs are where I get my certainty from my sense of saft. So if you're anything that threatens that, you know, the question becomes if you're not, If you are not your beliefs, what are you? That's what I say.
I'll tell you what Eckhart told says, I'm the awareness of everything that I'm not. You know, he would tell you your awareness, that your energy, that you're that your intellect, that you're all of that stuff. I mean, you know, I don't. I think the who am I? Is more a philosophical than a helpful question for me anyway. But I think putting yourself in any pigeon hole metaphoric pigeon hole and going I am this because that means that's all you can be. You know, I'm not a single thing.
I'm an intersection of things.
You know.
I'm spiritual, I'm emotional, I'm creative, I'm funny, I'm stupid, I'm clever, I'm physical, I'm not physical.
I'm you know. And I think that's okay. And there's stuff I will never know. There's stuff I.
Will always get wrong. There are things like even in this conversation that I go, shut the fuck up me. You know that you and I are both pretty good at self loathing, by the way, right, and we've spoken about that. But it's like if I wait until yeah, yeah, if I've got if I wait until i'm happy with I'm totally happy with me, Like I think, oh yeah, I've really I'm fucking I've nailed it, which I will never think. Doesn't mean I think I'm a bad person
or a piece of shit. But I realize that I'm flawed. I realize I'm going to get things wrong. I realize I'm going to hurt people's feelings while not ever wanting to hurt people's feelings, but I know that's going to happen because that's a human experience. So I go, well, I'm flawed and a bit broken, also at times a bit funny and a bit clever. But on the list, I can't wipe for fucking perfection because I'll be dead.
So I'm just gonna do what I do and try and do it with awareness and humility and love.
And that's it. That's me.
And I think when you say that humility love for me, it's it's like without understanding, and I don't. I don't know who I am. There's so many aspects to me. I don't know myself in its entirety and all the influences that make me like there are things that I do on a daily basis I think most people do on a daily but I have no idea why I did that. I know what my story is about why I did that, but I don't know. But for me, it goes back to that concept that we talked about
self authoring. Who I am is what in this moment I resonate with. I choose to be. I am my word, I am my promises, I am my purpose, which is what is mean to me and how I want to contribute that or why it's important for me to share that I think the issue is sometimes, and I'm talking about this tomorrow night, we mistake social contracts for values. I am my values, you know, like honesty is it's not in my mind, it's not really a value. Or trust is not really a value. It's a social contract.
It's very important. It's critical for societies to work. Like if I say, hey, could you like watch my car for a minute, I need to have some level of certainty that you're not just going to steal it. So that kind of works in a society. But when I think of a value, I think of something that resonates with me to the point that is so sacred that I become most engaged with life when I partake in this thing. Like for me, a value is teaching. Teaching is a value. Back in the day, travel used to
be a value. Play is a value. Humor, appreciation and beauty, excellence, all those things, those are values. They draw me out and energize me. And it's not about the outcome. It's not like I like this because when I do this, this happens. The payoff is in the process itself. So those things are meaningful for their own sake. That's how I look at values, and I think building a story on I am this gives direction without rigidity because it's
not a belief. I am definitely not my beliefs, and I have strong beliefs held lightly.
It just dawned on me as you were speaking, as we're wrapping up here, that's when I started my research, which obviously my stuff comes broadly under the banner of self awareness, like understanding me, understanding may for others, you know,
social situational awareness, blah blah blah. And I'm like, oh, when did they start researching self awareness or you know this kind of and obviously, well, not obviously, but I think, yeah, I'm thinking, oh, you know, it's probably been It's probably been some kind of research or talk or theorizing about this for one hundred years or more. Because even the field of psychology, which a lot of people don't realize, like psychology itself as a science is I think one hundred and fifty years old.
It's not old.
But yeah, obviously Socrates the beginning of wisdom is to know thyself, right, and that was two and a half thousand years ago. I'm like, well, allegedly Socrates, it's attributed, but let's just say some old stoic right, but it's people have been talking about this shit forever, trying to figure out want to achieve it.
Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think so.
Hey mate, it's always good to talk to you too. The self Helppan Todote is the name of Bobby's podcast. Robert Capuccio dot com.
Am I right on that?
Yeah, I think that's right.
Upercapuccio dot com. You can also follow him on Insta. He's a little bit needy, so jump on Insta if you wouldn't follow him.
Actually, LinkedIn is the best place to get me.
Okay, fuck ig Go to LinkedIn. Go to LinkedIn. I stand corrected. Thanks mate, we'll talk again soon.
See you next week.