I'll good eight boys and girls, moms and dads, kids. It's quat Anthony Harper's You Project. It's David Kevin Patrick, James Gillespie from the Sunshine State and other places. Happy New Year, my friend. How are you?
Yeah? Happy New Year to you. Oh good refreshed. I've been on holidays, as I was saying to your fair, feeling all charged up, ready to go. Been working on my new book. So I've been playing with some ideas there.
How to Get Rich Painlessly? Is that the book?
Is that?
The one? How to get Jack ripped and rock hard? How to be more like David Gillespie.
Kind of the opposite. Actually, it's how to survive when AI comes for your job. Also, it's yeah, looking at what you should be doing if you don't want a robot to take your job.
That is such an interesting and relevant and timely conversation to have and topic to explore. I didn't know you were doing that. I knew you were doing another book.
I didn't know I was doing that before the holiday either. But that's just where I got to.
Right, give us without giving away anything, give us like two minutes on that if you can like a okay, So a bit of a like the concept in your head.
Yeah, it's sort of. I started with the idea of the parallels between this and the railroad boom that happened in the late eighteen hundreds in the United States. So that was a massive change in US society and eventually world society in that you went from so if you were the local blacksmith in a town, you know, out of nowhere middle of the USA, your competition for work was pretty much as far as anyone could walk before
the railroad. So you could be as good or as bad as you like to charge whatever you liked, because unless someone else set up shop in your little town, you were pretty much competition free. And the railroad changed all of that. Suddenly the blacksmith in little you know, Poke, New Jersey or whatever was not competing with whoever was within walking distance. He was competing with everybody in the country, and in particular, he was competing with factories that employed
thousands of people. And that was the big change that happened, and it was a massive change in the way the economy of that country and eventually the world worked. And I feel we're seeing something similar happening here with Ai it's the railroad for the knowledge worker. It's going to
be at least as disruptive. Is being at least as disruptive, and so sort of in my head called this book Escape from the Middle, because I think there is develop being a large chunk of the middle of society and the middle of the job scheme where you are unlikely to survive unless you move to either end. And what's at either end is the things that AI can't do. So there are two big and important things that AI can't do, and I think we've briefly talked about this
one before. One of the things, one of the things that can't do is invent things. So and as I mentioned, you know, if you gave an AI training on all the documents that existed in eighteen fifty, it would never invent the motor vehicle. It would just invent a better orse drawn cart. And it might be significantly better. It might have round the wheels or better whips or better horses or something I don't know, but it wouldn't invent
a car because it can't invent things. And so there's obviously going to be jobs for inventors, people who can join the dots outside the square and imagine things that don't exist, and then there's going to be jobs for what I would call the artisans, you know, the people who make things that aren't as good as a machine
on purpose. You know, even today, even today, people are quite happy to pay ten dollars for pretty rough sort of bread, a loaf of sourdough bread, which are surprising given they can buy a perfectly perfect piece or loaf from a supermarket for two dollars.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well you can buy buy an Australia that looks like it was made by your grandma with the lights out for one hundred bucks or I don't know. People buy Austrais now will probably get one from the op shop that's incredible for fifty cents.
Yeah. So I think there are And so obviously that's not the whole book, but that's where my thoughts are going, and some of the drafts I've done on the manuscript about thinking about, Okay, well, what does that imply for the kinds of jobs that you should be looking at now, what does it imply for the other jobs, and what does it imply for society in general? You know, if that kind of change is going to happen in society, then what has to change about the way everything is done? Yeah?
Yeah, So this is an ironic question in your book about essentially preparing for the dangers of AI or you know, trying to mitigate the personal damage to you in your career or whatever. How are you using AI now in the writing process? Now that we have such an amazing tool available that you didn't have available for most of your books.
For research, its ability to research is incredible, you know, the I think one of the things that I brought to the table when I first started writing. And so when I wrote my book about sugar back in two thousand and seven, the Internet wasn't very useful for research,
and very few people were using it that way. So sure people were searching for the nearest top dog stand or something, but they weren't doing the thing that I did, which was to say, okay, well, here's this database of medical journals that says this thing, and then here's this database of medical journals read by a completely different set of professionals that say this other thing. But if both of those things are true, then this third thing must be true. And let's see if that's the case, whether
this third database agrees with that. I did a lot of that kind of thing, which is drawing connections that nobody else was drawing, and then put that together in the form of notes to myself, which ultimately came became a book. Well, today, a good AI does all of that in seconds. And the skill of the researcher is in staying out of the rails it tries to shove
you down. So it's so convincing in its ability to do what I just described that it's very very easy to just accept it and not ask questions and not push the boundaries and ask what ifs. And I think that's the skill I bring to the table when using a tool that's that powerful on that fast.
Yeah. Yeah, it's so interesting, Like I have not been very good at at the prompts, you know, the questions and the and then the secondary and third question, and you know is learning how to how do I ask this in a way where I actually get what I not necessarily want as in to get it to agree with me, but to get the real answer that I want, not the convenient, politically correct right answer, but to get to, like you said, to actually find out what I want
to find out. So yeah, I think that ability to be able to ask great questions and write the the.
Well, there's a cheap the chief over there, ask it to write the prompt.
Give me an example of that.
Well, so say you want to find out all the research about a particular So say there's a study you're interested in, and you want to find out all the research that agrees or disagrees with that study. Now, if you just type that in and you may or may not get a particularly good response, but generally the way to do it is say this is what I want. Now, construct me a prompt that would be written by a
well educated researcher in this space. Wow, And it'll write a prompt and it'll be a lot longer, and think of a lot of things that you wouldn't think of as limitters that you should be putting in place. And it'll also probably have you start thinking about, Oh, it's saying do do do these things? Don't do these things in its prompt. It'll essentially right an essays a prompt, but in reading it before you use it, think about, oh, yeah,
that's something I didn't think of. Maybe I should tell it not to do that, or I should tell it to do that. You'll get a much better prompt if you do that.
I feel like the limitation with AI, probably the most common limitation, is that we just don't know how to use it. Well, yeah, you know, like how to exactly what you're talking about. Now, I'm like, well, that actually makes sense. Why don't I do that? Why didn't I think of that? And so it's got way more capacity than I'm that I'm getting from it, not because it can't generate better answers for me, but because I don't know how to get them.
Yeah. And also you've got to get around the thing that all ais are written for, which at the end of the day, they are a sales tool. And just like social media, their metric is engagement, which is how long can I keep you engaged with this? And for that reason that's why they're such sycophantic so and sos and tell you that everything you do is fabulous, you know,
So you'd be used to this by now. Whenever you put something in and so what do you think about this, it'll say, Oh, my god, Craig, that's the best writing I've ever seen in my life. How on earth did you produce? That? Is just a few tips the.
Main reason, and that's my best friend.
It never comes up. It never goes Oh Jesus, Craig, you're really stuffed at this time.
What is wrong with you? That is? That question is shit?
Where's piece of garbage I've seen in my life? Have you thought about giving up?
You don't? You know?
It never does that. It wants to pretend to be your friend because it wants to keep you engaged. And that's why a lot of ais. Now, no matter what you ask, the very next it'll give you the answer and then the right at the bottom and I'll say, oh, would you like me to do this? That or the other is sort of an extension of what you're thinking to just keep you going for the next question, and
it'll keep doing that for everything you do. So if you put in the next question, you'll say, oh, now that we've done that, do you want to do this next thing? Yes?
Yes, Well, when I put in something that's I don't know, I guess anything in performance or human behavior or the mind of this. So that firstly it's going to say, hey, Craig, great question, Thanks well, thank you for judging my question positively. I appreciate that. And then once it answers the question
or responds to my directive or prompt or whatever. Then it says, so, would you like me to write just a snapshot of what I just wrote, you know, something that you could use as a synopsis or an overview, or it goes, would you like me to turn this into a whiteboard post? Which is my Instagram right Not that I ever use it for that, but I I will bounce ideas off it. Right now, I'll put up a post and I'll go what's wrong with this? What's right with this? You know?
Be critical by the way, Craig, you know I'm sensing in you, and I get this from a lot of people hesitation to admit that you use AI, and Andy, I sense it there. You're sneaking around the edges of it. And I don't think anyone should be hesitating about admitting to using AI. That's like talking to a scientist or a mathematician and them fudging the fact that they used a calculator. It's just a tool, and you know it will be as good or as bad as the person in whose hands it is.
I definitely use it, definitely, and I'm open about that. But what I don't do is I don't get it to write things for me, and then I pretend that I wrote what it wrote, like I.
Don't do that. Yes, but I tell.
You where is a bloody can of worms is in universities at the moment, they're all running around with their undies on their heads because you've got all these typically older men and women who are the bloody the powers that be, who are all kind of fifty fifty five sixty plus, who do not really understand AI, who are ultimately the decision makers making decisions and rulings on shit they don't fully understand. So that's that's a name.
Well, the problem there is that the entire model of university has just been thrown out the window. And this is one of the things I'm looking at in the book, is you can't do university or school for that matter, the way it used to be done, because it's no longer acceptable to say to a student, regurgitate this stuff that you came and theoretically listened to for ten weeks, because student can point it at your lectures and regurgitate
whatever you damn well want, having learned exactly nothing. So the traditional methods of examining all the tasks you set for students to be examined, just don't do anything. They don't prove that the student learned anything, and in all probability, the student didn't learn anything. What the student learned how to do is how to get an AI to do the work for them. And I think it's a fundamental break in the model of the way university is conducted.
Universities and schools should be focusing on the reality that these tools exist and teaching kids how to do the things we've just been discussing, which is, Okay, there's a tool, Now, how do we make it do what we wanted to do to add value? Not let's all pretend everyone's not getting their assignments written by AI, because I guarantee you they all are. And don't sit there, you know, on your academic high horse saying oh, yeah, but I've got this piece of software that checks it and tells me
if an AI wrote it. Well, that's bs. The first thing any student learns is to tell the AI to make sure that an AI detection software can't detect the thing it writes.
Yes, yes, yeah, one hundred percent. So I mean like this really has kind of accelerated a lot in the academic space in the last two years where they're really I mean, I don't know, I know that Monash where I'm at there, they're reviewing it a lot, and as is my understanding, which is very limited. But what I know, lots of conversations, lots of meetings, lots of potential strategies, ideas what what's you're off the top of your head, like you sht your gut feel about, how is education
going to work? And look, if not as it has been, which it can't be as it has been because this new tool makes that kind of learning essentially redundant and impossible, what's going to work moving forward?
It's going to have to go back to the way it was before everyone started doing education online, back to the good old days, Craig. You know when I was in university and undergraduate days in the nineteen eighties and you actually had to show up, you know, and and hand right your exam responses. Let's see Nai do that. But I certainly, you know, in my undergraduate degree, had to show up, had to go to an exam in person, had to sit there for four hours and hand write out answers.
Do you think like that would do it, especially if they obviously had no computers and no phones and no tablets with them, Like if they needed to go in and write essays, do exams, answer questions with no help, that's going to there. They're either going to get you know, they're either going to learn or they're going to crash and burn.
Do you think now that one stopped I'm using AI, you'd still I mean, if I was back then but had AI available to me, I'd be using it to help me study. Yeah, because but but and so it would be still help.
Yeah, but you've got to be able to go into the exam room without AI and prove that you actually know the.
Stuff, at least for that hour.
Yes, and well yeah, and literally you know, write an essay or whatever.
In response to a question you haven't seen.
Yeah, exactly, and that you can only do that with you know, knowledge, with quiet knowledge.
So I think that's where we're going to end up. I can't see any alternative to significantly greater requirement for in person And if you were to write assignments, I think the only sort of assignments you could write would be By the way, when I went to university and
did undergraduates, there were no assignments at all. You did a full year of study, you did a full year subject, and you did a four hour exam at the end of it, and that was that really, So you know, you could go back to that, but if you wanted to do assignments, they could be more like we had a discussion in class today about X or Y topic. What did you think of Craig's take on that. Let's see an AI do that one.
Yeah, right, right right, yeah. I've I've spoken to Melissa who runs my life about this, and she's my ra on my PhD. And and obviously we're using AI in some bits, like in the research bits, but all of my all of my papers are coming out of the research that I've done, which isn't anywhere on the internet. It's all, you know, so there's there's not really even
a possibility of cheating. But I said to her, you could design a PhD depending on that, you know, especially when you do something like psychology, where do you get to depending on the university and how much leeway they give you. You can design a study. You can write your own research questions, come up with your own aims and hypotheses, and do I think you could almost if
you knew how to do it. Not that you'd get through, but you could literally do a PhD in a week if you knew how to just you know what I'm saying.
Yeah, I agree with you. I think you could. I think if you you know, it wouldn't necessarily get through some universities, But look, I think if you knew what you were doing, you could crank out. You know, I don't know, what's the length of a PhD is at sixty seventy thousand words something like that, you could crank that out in a night. You know. That's just the trick is making it something that is PhD worthy.
I guess, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, My mine's different because I've got to write papers and get them published. But yeah, so mine is by publication, not by thesis. But for people who do it by thesis, it's like, yeah, you could. Yeah, you're probably right if you if you had a big crack and took a you know, some nicorette gum or something and sat down for twelve and a half hours, you could probably start to finish your pH d. Yeah, what about This wasn't what we were going to chat about tonight.
You probably fail an oral examination of it though, which kind of leaves a bit of a clue to how PhD should be assessed as well.
Well, yeah, you make a good point, Like in mind, I had five assessments along the way. Four assessments along the way where called academic reviews, where you go and stand in front of a board and you you've got to defend your thesis and talk about your study, your re arch, how you did it, why you did it, how it was designed, why it was designed, why this, why this science needs to be brought into the world,
why it's different, blah blah blah, all that stuff. You have to do that four times, which I've done it, and that as someone who does this for living, talk publicly and speak in front of audiences. That's the scaredest I've ever been speaking to a group. I've never felt I've never felt dumber, I've never felt more insecure, I've never felt more out of my you know, my environment, because I'm, as you've well established, with my audience. Thanks
so much. I'm not a real academic and I'm talking to real academics than I do.
Graig, Well, you know.
It's yeah, but it's just fucking terrifying, but that is Yeah. Look, there are a few what they call academic milestones along the way, but yeah, other than that, I think you could. You could. Isn't there a famous story about blokes who wrote all these academic papers that were completely bullshit and go.
Oh yes, yes, yeah, very much on purpose.
Yeah, got accepted into Q one journal, which everyone that's the highest level, like the most highly regarded, you know, peer reviewed, kind of well credentialed. Yeah, and they wrote these bullshit papers based on bullshit data and outcomes and got them actually published. And they did it just to prove that that was possible.
Yeah, yeah, Look, a significant percentage of so called quality research probably falls into the category of bullshit. I do remember there was a study about what percentage it was, and it was a surprisingly large one. I don't have it off the top of my head, but yes, just because it's in a journal doesn't mean it's true.
So we'll leave our conversation about the food pyramids next time. But my last question read all of this is it seems like an understandably a lot of people who work in the creative space, you know, writers, musicians, you know, all different kinds of artists are not a fan of AI at all because you know, like some of the of course it's subjective, but some of the art that's produced by AI, as if you thought a person did that,
you'd go, well, that's fucking incredible. And some of the music, and you know, some of the writing and some of the you know, the poetry that it can produce and songs that it can write. So that's not a it's not a great outcome for them, I guess, yeah, But I guess that would be harder to take if they hadn't all been stuffed by online use of their work.
Now, I mean, I don't know, what does a Spotify artist get is point zero zero zero zero zero zero one cent every time it's played? You know, the entitlement to be paid for your work is at best theoretical now, I would say largely, And you know, the remnants of it are the industry. I mean, I guess when my when my books get published, is that there's publishing houses that still make money out of doing this and still send you a few cents on the doll of my
way for doing it. But you know, unless unless you're writing you know, Minion selling blockbusters you're not. No one's making a fortune out of publishing anything, And which is why I always find it really amusing when someone accuses me of taking a position just for the royalties. That is hilarious.
People don't get it.
Yeah, But so to the extent that AI is screwing that in the sense that it's using your work in a derivative fashion, I'm sure I guess it is. Prove it. And what percentage of what it does are you entitled to? You know, you entitled to point zero seventeen times one cent for it? You know, it's you know, I've been involved in situations where people have flat out plagiarized things that I've written in other books by other publishers, and you can see it's not like is this derivative or paraphrase.
It's like, here's a chunk of text from my book, and there it is in the other book exactly the same. And publishers have said to me, yeah, not really worth briefing the lawyers on that, you know, and they're right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I am. One of my books was published by Penguin and it sells for thirty dollars and people are like, thirty dollars. That's a fair bit for a paperback, Like, well, yeah, it's two hundred and eighty pages. But yeah, and I go by the way, I get three dollars.
Well they get they get forty seven doubts.
Yeah, well they get twenty seven dollars. I get three. So don't be mad at me. I'm not getting rich of this, so you know, but anyway, it is what it is. So when are you back on deck? When are you like when you're big boy pants and starting work?
Ah, Monday, Monday. I'll get back at it next Monday. Hey, you know what we didn't talk about today, And I don't know whether it's in you to your listeners, and if so, we can hold it over the next time. Is the bacon paradox?
Well, well, I mean, if you're up for it, I'm up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
My best mate rang me today and his name's Vin. Shout out to Vin, and he's like, tell gillespo I love him even more. I'm like, why is that he goes bacon because it's just a big you know, Trady Bogan, like fucking bacon sandwiches. That's his thing, you know. He's like, oh yeah, bacon. Tell him he's a great man. I'm like, oh, let him know, Vin, all right. So I haven't even read it. I don't even know what it's about. So tell me the bacon.
Story, all right. So you must have in all your years traveling through the health industry, come across people saying, oh, you shouldn't eat bacon because of the nitrates. Of course, yes, definitely, yes, Well that's bs. And the article I wrote about that, called the Bacon Paradox, is about that, which is, you know, so that's the big reason people give you, or one
of the big reasons why you shouldn't beginning bacon. And you know, there's sort of two camps, the ones who won't touch bacon at all and the ones who then go hunting for nitrate free bacon, which does exist, by the way. And the article is about pointing out some facts about nitrates that most people seem to not understand or ignore, which is one is, yes, there are nitrates added to bacon as part of the curing process, but they're insignificant compared to the nitrates you would consume from say,
rocket salad or be troot or spinach. So, just to give you a sense of scale, one hundred gram serving of rocket or b troot or asparagus or salary. If you had to consume an equivalent amount of bacon to get the same amount of nitrates as in those things, you'd have to consume five kilos of bacon.
Oh that's hilarious. Hang on, how on stop? So one hundred grams five kilos. Yeah, so gram for Graham, it's got fifty times less, fifty times less. Yeah, yeah, that's so funny.
So you know, if nitrates were truly the toxic assassin we are told they are, a salad would be a suicide note. So you know, clearly there's a bit of an issue there. Now, if you put that to people, they do one or two things. They say, oh yeah, yeah, but there are artificial nitrates in bacon. Well, no, they're added, but they're exactly the same chemical. They're the same molecule.
It's no, it doesn't matter whether it came from you know, a bottle and a lab that they added to the curing of the meat, or whether they ground up some celery and got it. It's the same molecule. So there's no that. But they would make another point, which is valid, which is, ah, yeah, yeah, but what makes nitrates in cella less dangerous is that the cella comes with some vitamin C, and vitamin C is an adiocidant, which essentially
neutralizes the danger presented by nitrates. And that's true, it does, which is exactly why they put vitamin C in the curing of bacon. So all bacon that's cured with nitrate either has vitamin C or a very closely aligned molecule which is also an antioxidant. I think it's E three six or something same thing. So that's why it's there, and you'll see it on the label every single time. It's there to make sure that the nitrate doesn't do anything to you.
So in the which we'll talk about next time, but in the new inverted version of the food pyramid, essentially I say it's inverted because it's almost just the old one upside down, bacon would rank as a healthy food or as a relatively healthy food.
Well, not an unhealthy food, let's put it that way. Although you know, there is something to be said for being careful about where the pig was raised or what it was fed. So pigs, like humans, are omnivores and they absorb poly unsaturated fats if they're fed them. Now, pigs in nature don't get access to much in the way of poly unsaturated fat. So you know, a wild pig or a pig that's able to feed itself in
nature is fine. But a farm harvested or farm raised pig is going to be fed grains which are high in a Mega six fats and so they're fat. It is going to be high in a Mega six fat two. So you want to trim the bacon of non free range ham or bacon. In Australia, almost all of our bacon is not free range, so it's about ninety seven percent of bacon sold in Australia is grain fed. So if you're going to eat the fat, make sure it's not grain fed. So you'd have to go to some links to make sure of that.
So pigs in the wild, while pigs, I guess we call them or bores, do they eat meat like they can? I know they're omnivous.
They're omnivors. Yeah, they'll lead anything they can get. Wow, So like humans, whatever is available.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah wow. Wow.
They haven't invented fire yet, so they probably find it a bit more tricky to eat meat.
Yeah, I think, yeah, just getting their hands or their little what do you call them, trotters, trotters, thank you? Getting their trotters on a box of matches is somewhat complex out in the middle of and what what brought that to your attention? Like what like when you come up with and we'll go in a second, but like I'm thinking, where did this idea come from? Like for that, what caught your nitrates or just even the bacon the story in general.
I don't know. I've seen it every now and then you come across these things. One of the things that irritates me that it is sort of vegetarian slash vegan propaganda, and an often part of that is this story about you know, oh, you can't eat bacon because of the nitrates. And so I did look out of a long time ago when I was writing a book about seed oils and looked into the nitrates on bacon. And then I remembered the other day and I was thinking about something
I might want to write. I thought, what, I don't think I've ever actually written a piece about the nitrates, So I thought I'd do it.
Do you know what, I would love, love, love love for you to write an art colon, and I think it will get huge traction. And I'm not being facetious. So I don't know if you've seen the the saturation exposure that Oprah's getting at the moment with her new book. No, No, Okay. So her new book is called Give Me a Minute. A new book is called Enough, Your Health, Your Weight,
and what It's Like to Be Free. It's co authored with a doctor lady called it Anya or Anya Anya anyway, She okay, I'm gonna I'm actually doing a podcast on Saturday. As we record this, everyone, it's Thursday night, and I'm going to explore some of these And so she doesn't say people are obese. She says people have obesity, right, and it's a chronic disease. And she says, if you have oben it's not because you're overeating, it's because you
have the disease that causes you to overeat. And she says willpower is not going to work if you have obesity. She says, I was carrying a chronic disease that caused me to overeat. And one of the reoccurring themes and by the way, everyone listening to me, I think for the most part. In general terms, she's amazing the stuff that she's done. You know, I've done nothing compared to her.
She's a superstar. But I have worked a lot with bodies and diets and food and people who are obese and people who are lean and fit and highly functional and poorly functional and all of that. But one of the things that she says emphatically is that, like when you know, talking to people about their weight or this
is fat shaming. And I'm like, well, no, no, no. If I'm talking to somebody about like the reality of what they weigh or their size, and I'm coming from a point of view of well, do you want to be obese? The answer is usually know and how do you feel? And the answer is not, you know, it's not always great. But for me to do that is apparently triggering and fat shaming, whereas I'm really I just want, like you didn't accidentally end up in the spot like
I've been obese. Now. When I was obese, it was all about my choices and my behaviors, and when I changed my operating system, i lost the weight and I kept that off since I was fourteen, essentially, so you know,
whatever that is nearly fifty years. But it is some of the stuff that they're saying, Like I think I've figured I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure it was like seventy four percent of people are hardwired to be obese, right And I'm thinking, Okay, So if it's not about your lifestyle, it's not about your choices, it's not about your habits, and it's not your fault, and then why do we have sixty six percent obese in America give or take right now? Overweight and obese in America right now?
And if we look one hundred years ago, I don't know what the number would be, but I'm sure it would have been less than ten. You know. It's just like there's this whole weird psychology going on and this if anybody says anything that's practical or to me, extremely reasonable about let's not beat ourselves up, let's not self loath, but let's be self aware. Let's be honest. Let's acknowledge the decisions that we make and the behaviors that we embrace.
The things that we do actually have a physiological consequence. And that's not because you're bad or terrible, but that is just that is a consequence of those choices and behaviors. But her message is essentially, oh, that's out of your control.
I'm like, and what say solution.
Drugs?
The drugs are all right, okay, Oh there we go. So so obesity is an insufficiency of weight loss drugs.
Well, no, it's biological. She uses that word a lot, and the other lady, the doctor lady, Oh, it's biological. And people just you know, they don't understand. But when they yeah, look, they really really like. She said.
One of her.
Quotes was, I will be on this forever. This is me for the rest of my life.
Well you have to be Those drugs stop working the minute you stop taking them.
Anyway, I reckon when you have a minute, or when you have sixty minutes. Have a look at some of the stuff that she's advocating. I reckon, you could have a field day with and not to you know, start a shit fight tour, but just to go Okay, So let's address these things one at a time. So she says this, Now, let's unpack that. Let's see if that's true or not, or what part's true or what parts not, because it's very much seems to me about alleviating people
of any responsibility or accountability. Anyway, have a look interesting, I'll have a look at it all right, Well, say goodbye. Fair but always good to chat mate.
Appreciate you, absolute pleasure. See you Graig, see buddy.