Hello, t yp family, Craig Anthony Harper is my name, mar Tiffany and cookers over there just inhaling all the fucking carbohydrates in metropolitan Melbourne. She's just she just got home from the gym and inhaled a bowl of knoki. That's right, noki. And now she's sitting there like a fucking fat little Craig Harper inhaling chocolate. You're such a bad role model. I'm all about balance, harp All. I don't know that the noki with the creamy sauce, what
was the sauce blue sauce? Oh god, so carbs and fat and then sugar and fat, well, same same. And then you're going to get up tomorrow and annoyingly, your abs will be fucking sharper, and your delts will be a bit bigger.
These delts don't feed on bloody kale.
Do they.
No, they definitely don't.
They need a bit about your gold.
You know what, Kelly and I who with all due respect, kel you and I are probably in the same boat. It's not that we're not fucking beautiful or brilliant ourselves, but we don't have the genetics of one t cook up at the top left hand corner of my screen. Do. We certainly don't, so we collectively want to punch you in your fucking rock hard face.
Yeah, I think I've ganged two ki loes just hearing you.
Yeah before Yeah, my ass just exploded out the back listening to that, and before any one writes me an email. We don't really want to punch tip in the face. That's a joke, Kelly, how are you? I'm good.
I'm good.
I'm craving chocolate now and that's not fair because I don't eat that much chocolate.
What's your If you could have one food that was what do you call it? You know where it's like a you know those cards, is like a joke or what is it? Like a wild card where it can be anything? But you could have one food that would miraculously have no calories and you could have it whenever you wanted, and you could eat that food and it wouldn't hurt your body in any What would that food be?
And it could be like a single thing like chocolate or cheese, or it could be something a composite like lasagna or chicken stir fry.
Yeah, lazaang is in there? Any kind of pasta. Just yeah, all day, every day. If I could, I absolutely would.
Yeah.
Only I used to go hard. When I was a fat, little fucker. I used to eat all the pasta. Thanks Mary, Thanks for cooking that. Mary. Did you not notice how fucking big I was getting? Anyway? I blame her. That's that's what I do. It's Mary Harper's fault. I wasn't. I had no role. Yes I did. I had all the rolls with ham and cheese. But I don't worry about that every day. And I used to squish him in. Remember that you wouldn't even know this, you too, because
you're too young. But in the old days are sixty year old. In the old days, back in the seventies, we used to have a thing called a jaffalin. Oh yeah, oh yeah, they're the best. And you would two bits of bread and you'd fill it with stuff and then it'd be round. This thing would be round to make like a flying saucer shape toasted singer. You cut the crust off and throw that shit away. Fuck the crusts,
and then you know what I used. I shouldn't talk about this because I feel like I might go up to seven to eleven and buy a pie straight after the show. But what I used to do was, by the way, everybody don't do as I do, Okay. I used to get so white bread. Of course I did fill it with Mary's bolonnaise sauce and then grated cheese right so you'd butter the bread on the outside. Then it'd be full with bolonnaise, sauce and tasty cheese. Was like the closest thing to cocaine that I ever had.
Did you burn your mouth? Do you burn your skin off the roof of your mouth? Nocky tonight, But it's actually want a big chunk off the top of my men?
Well, that's God teaching you a lessons, says me, God spokesperson.
Yeah.
Now, I used to nearly fucking inhale three of my fingers shoveling that shit in. I was so excited. And then what I would do is I would make one. So this is literally what I did, because I used to get home before Ron and Mary because back in the old days when kids just let themselves in what do they call them latchkey kids or something, And I'd get home at four and just go into a fucking caloric frenzy for about an hour and then try and let myself debrief a bit so that I could eat
whatever Mary was making for dinner. So I would try to get rid of all of the evidence of the aforementioned jaffel, but Mum would come in. The whole joint would smell like toasted sandwiches and old sauce. You like, did you make yourself for daffl? I might a little bit, a little one. What do you mean a little one? I'm like, well, she goes, well, there are only one size. You can't make a little one. So nonetheless I kept doing it. Anyway, enough about my childhood eating addiction. So
what would you go call? What would your one food be?
Pasta of any sort? And just throw it at me?
Really if you had to pick one though, Like do you like creamy sauces or meat sauces, garlic.
Meat meat saucer, lasagna, bolonnaise?
Yep, all right, yep, yep, tiff those cookies, pistachio cookie.
Yeah that's true, but have you tried have you tried pistachio pasta?
It sounds terrible? Oh yep, yeah maybe maybe maybe. Yeah, you know I have this because I eat lots of roasted almonds. So my sweets quite often is vanilla yogurt at night with roasted almonds, and it's kind of sweet and crunchy, and it's definitely not cheesecake or yoki or those fucking cookies or chocolate. But over here at fucking Sad Sack Central, you know, my dopamine goes off like a frog and a sock. I just pretend, I pretend
I'm having an indulgence. I'm like, oh, look at me, fucking nuts and yogurt, you crazy bastard, Look at me. Go It's no fucking jaffle with cheese and whole sauce, is it. It's how sad I've become. Oh yeah, but at least you'll live a long time. But you'll wear a miserable cunt. But you'll live to two hundred though, fuck.
The misery might get you sooner.
That's hilarious. So officially, welcome to the show, Kelly. It's good to see you. For those of you who have met Kelly before, She's was just a listener and I don't say were just was. She was a listener who bumped into me at the gym. We bumped into each other we got to know each other, and she said one day something like could I ask you some questions on the show? And I went fucking pushy. But turns out quite good, quite good. So she's back, she's back.
Have you been doing been doing anythinking?
Thinking?
Well, you put up a post this morning of your book, this one which actually have the twenty Questions for humans, And this is from when I was just a listener and I came along.
To do a bit of a preread. So I've got the autograph in there and everything. It's that was.
A fun day because I don't know, do you know this story TIF where I wrote the book and I wanted people to read it, proof read it, edit it, scribble all over it. And I thought I can't get any more brutal feedback than twenty strangers. So I got twenty people to come to my then office. Was that up in Marabin or was that yeah? Yeah? Yeah? And I had twenty people that were followers or friends or whatever.
I don't think even anyone that I really personally knew, if maybe one or two, and they all read the book. Because a short book, you can read it, if you're a fast reader, you can read it in an hour. If you're slow, it's probably an hour and a half. But then if you're really trying to consume it and dissect it and correct it and give me feedback, it probably took a couple of hours.
Col Yeah, I think it was about two hours.
And I gave everybody a red pen and a draft copy, and their job was to write all over it, well right wherever they felt necessary in red pen. And it was good. It was like I had twenty editors at once and everyone got a free book when it came out and assigned a copy, and yeah, so it was win win.
That was my copy. It was It was really fun.
And that was when I was literally just a listener, didn't know you at all, and it was a great experience.
But it did.
So I've got a few questions today because you just said, ask whatever you want and I was like, great, let's go. But I did think, given that there's twenty on here and we're coming up to the tail end of the year, I'm curious as to what you if people would pick just one question from the book, what would you what.
Would you suggest if they would. I don't know, I don't have them in front of me, but off the top of my house. Should know them all off by heart. But I'm going to say I think, like, like, why do I say yes when I should say no? I think a lot of people do that, kind of people pleasing stuff. I mean, these are the ones that resonate for me. Obviously, the one at the end, I think it's the last one is what's the meaning of life? Which is really it's really meant to be, like, what's
the meaning of my life? And it's more about it's not that there's obviously a categoric answer to that, but rather that that's a good thing to think about, like what does my life mean? What does it represent? What is you know, it's kind of insects with that, what is my purpose? And all that? Let me have a look what's my life?
I do?
You know this sounds weird because I wrote it, but like I like all of them, Like what's my life telling me? I love that question because like, we're always producing results, we're always producing data, So I think it's that's a good question. Number two, what are my core values? How do I live in alignment? What do I self say? Yeah?
Probably number one, what's my life telling me? I think maybe like question fourteen is not a particularly clever or mind blowing question, but I think it's a really important question. And the question is am I ready to do the work? And I just think that all the other questions are redundant if the answer to fourteen is not yes, And I mean actually really no bullshit, yes, not just I'm going to say yes because someone's listening. And I feel like for many people, the answer to am I genuinely
ready to roll up my sleeves, do the work? Embrace the suck, get uncomfortable, keep doing it, not give up, show up every fucking day, deal with the discomfort, Embrace the delaying of gratification, all that shit. I think the answer truly is for most people because they love the idea of change and growth. But we know that you know the process, the journey is for a while at least, all the UN's as we've spoken about, uncomfortable, et cetera.
So yeah, but we by the way, everybody, if you're thinking, this is not a promo for this book, because I don't even know if we have any copies, so it's definitely not a thinly or badly disguised promo for the book. But what about you kel, what's If you go into my Instagram, you'll see the book. If you want to pick one question that you think like sticks out for you, kel, what would your one or two be?
So very recently, I think for me it's question fifteen, and that is what is my body telling me? That's because I've had a bit of a health thing going on where I was getting these insane migraines and it was a bit it freaked them out a little bit, and it goes back to the uns and then the overs.
So I was uncertain as to what was going on.
Yes, I had to go for an MRI, which is extremely fun. Anyone's had one of those because there's a bit of dodgy brain history in the family. And so of course the overthinking kicked in. I'm like, oh, far out, this is it. It's going to be the worst case scenario.
It's not.
Turns out I've got a bit of a vertebrae that's out and my chiropractor is fixing it. So best case scenario. But it was you know, what's my body telling me? And there was a lot of stress built up, and there was a lot of not actually looking after basic things like my posture.
So that was a big question. Yeah, yeah, so that was a big question. And then what do I need to stop doing?
And that, to me really aligns with are you ready to do the work? Because stopping doing a lot of things can be harder than starting to do a lot of new things. So, yeah, you know when you've been so used to having a certain behavior for so long and then you go, it's not it's not helping me, it's not helping me grow and learn, and you guys need to stop it. But you might be surrounded by people who are enabling that behavior.
Yes, yeah, so those two Yeah cool? Uh, Tiffany Reckon, There's two.
That stick out for me.
One we talked about this yesterday when we recorded what am I core values and how do I live in alignment?
Mmmmm.
And the other one is the am I efficient or just busy, because I've spent a lot of time being just busy, and I think you can you can just repeat the habit of that and recreate it in a new version of busy, telling yourself, Oh, I'm going to do things better this time.
Yeah, that's so true. Yeah. I felt in the last six years with my study that there were times when I was busy and I was chaos, but I wasn't really getting a lot done. But I think that comes with being involved in something where you don't have a
high level of skill. You know. It's like, you think now about how well you can produce and edit a podcast and produce reels and create stuff for Instagram or whatever social media platform, and you can do awesome stuff in a few minutes that used to take you an hour that wasn't as good as you can produce now. And yes, the tech has evolved and all of that, but yeah, you just become you just become better. But I do think I do think a lot of people
almost pride themselves on the busy badge too. It's like it's, well, you know, it's like, how are you busy? Right? Okay, that doesn't really tell them, just kind of tells me what you're doing. But yeah, I think I think all of them are solid questions that and if you don't need to buy a book, everyone, you can just go onto my website and you'll see the back of the book.
I've literally got all the questions, which is probably a stupid thing to do because essentially the key points of the book are on the back cover, so fuck it, just take a screenshot of the back cover and then
figure out the rest, you know. But I certainly think they're not a bad kind of starting point for more for conversations and self explorations than absolute definitive answers or a map for anybody individually, because you know, what's awesome for me won't be awesome for the next person, and
vice versa. So that's even in the middle of all this data and feedback and thinking and asking of questions and exploring of concepts, we've still got to relate that because it's not like, oh, there's one best way to be effective, or there's one best way to interpret the data from our body, and there's one best way to create our optimal life, and there's you know, there's a
million ways. And it's like we've spoken before about, you know, for me, a great job is one where I don't have a boss, one where there's no absolute definitive protocol or routine, one where there's lots of flexibility and even lots of uncertainty. I ironically love the uncertainty. I like not knowing what's going to happen next year. If I knew exactly kind of step by step what was going
to happen next year, I'd lose excitement and focus. So for me going into a new year with a whole lot of uncertainty and unknown, thinking, well, I could make a bit of dough or a lot of dough, I could do great shit, or I could crash and burn, or I might run some really successful events, or I might not, or I might write another book, or I might not, or I love I love that. But that just works for me and maybe a little bit for you, Tiff, But I don't know that it would for a lot of people.
When did you write that book?
Maybe twenty twenty, I don't know. What does it say? Kel twenty nineteen, twenty nineteen?
What would you.
Add to.
Say? Again?
What would you add to that? Would you add any questions?
Not to come to me? Off the top of my head? You know, I'd probably make it more sweary. No, No, I'm actually writing another book now, and I love the idea of the new book. I can't Melissa's totally reprimanded me from talking about the concept or because it's very different and I've written quite a bit of it, and yeah, and so yeah, I hope that I will push that out of the literary nest kind of mid next year and wrap some marketing and PR and all of that stuff around it and get a few bums on seats
and do workshops and sell a few copies. But we'll see what happens. But everything starts with an idea. All right, Kel, I'm ready.
So I'm interested in what you just said though, about being excited about uncertainty, because that's something that I absolutely do not resonate with, Like uncertainty scares the shit out of me, and that's when my over is kicking. So can you explain what it's like to feel that excitement about the uncertainty and why that's a good thing for you?
Yeah, I don't know. I think the unknown and the uncertain and the unfamiliar has been a place that I've existed a lot of my life. Setting up my first business, setting up the first personal training center in Australia, starting my podcast, failing, starting another one, failing, starting another one, failing, starting the U Project, which was the fourth endeavor, doing hundreds of speaking gigs that were somewhere between complete shit
and average. But out of all of those trials and tribulations came a lot of really good stuff, like I don't seem to thrive when I'm comfortable. I seem to thrive when I'm uncomfortable. I seem to thrive and grow and learn and become a better version of me in the middle of the shit, you know, which I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing. And of course there are moments where right then, in that moment, I'm not enjoying it at all. But you know, it's like when I started a PhD, I knew that. I
knew it wouldn't be a fun process. I knew that, and it hasn't been like day to day doing the stuff, it isn't enjoyable. And that's not being disparaging or being negative.
It's just that every PhD student and researcher and graduate, depending on what they did, but you know, most of them will say, while I'm really glad I did it, I learned and it's amazing and it's great journey, it's also a fucking horrible journey most of the time because you're under immense pressure and you're learning as you're going, and it's a very very steep learning curve and not only learning about the subject matter that you're researching and
interpreting the data and writing papers and figuring out what the data that you've got through your studies and research and participants equals. But you're also, in my case, you're learning how to speak that language, how to write that language, how to do like how do I do a PhD? Irrespective of what am I studying? But how do I do one? How do I? Like? What does ethical approval mean? How do I get that? What do I? Who do I? You know, Like I started at fifty six, I'm like, oh,
who do I email about that? Or you know? What is? You know? How do I? How do I reference things? How do I do all these in text citations? How do I? You know? Because that that can be automated, But I'm like, well, I can't even automate making toasts, so as if I'm going to fucking figure that out, you know. But it's six years down the track and I'm nearly done, and it's been good. But I love that that. I would like to go do something next year.
Also not I want to do all the other stuff, but I definitely will go do something again.
That's hard, That's cool, I'd had a conversation with Tiff about this and I've said, you know, I, for me, going back to UNI is one of the most terrifying things because I've done it twice, and yeah, it was it was hard, it was scary, it was so unfamiliar and unknown. Really happy that I did it, but for a certain amount of time I would actually have nightmares about being in like.
Lecturcals in tutorials and.
The I think TIF you helped me reframe it by saying, you know, was it the actual the learning or is it the kind of the environment or the situation or what I was like at the time, And I kind of landed on, well, it's what I was like at the time, So potentially maybe I would go back and do something not right now, but maybe.
And also keeping in mind that is the situation or the challenge or the objective practical reality of the task scaring me? Or am I scaring myself? Is it my story about all of that, right? Because if that process was objectively scary, then everyone who did it would be scared.
Absolutely ended, It's totally my story.
So exactly, you need to go, well, what is the story that you're telling yourself? You know, it's like, well, it's not I don't mean to sound cliche, but it's not cancy you're dealing with. It's not a spinal cord injury. You don't live in poverty, you don't live in a war zone. Yeah, on the scale of what could happen to a human, do you know what I mean? And that's how I do it. I reframe and I go, like, some of the things that I do, people go, oh,
you're a fucking trojan. That's so hard. I don't know. And then I go, I think about what other people that I know go through, and my hardshit's not even a two out of ten on their scale. You know. It's like, well, because hard or easy, it's not an objective constant. It's a subjective variable, you know what I mean. Now, you could get up one day and do something and you feel fucking amazing, and you've had a great night's sleep, and you feel confident and someone said something nice, you've
got a bit of dopamine going. You're in the zone, and you do something that's pretty tricky, but it's like a two out of ten hard and you just bang it. You just do it, And then a few days later, you do the same thing. You feel like dogshit, and it's an eight out of ten hard right. But the
variable is not the thing. It's you, And so that the thing is not how do I change that that practical process or situational context or environment or or academic journey, or but rather how do I manage me around that? Because it's really never about the thing. It's always about our story about the thing. Because if it was always about the thing, the stimulus, the challenge, the objective process, everyone would have the same reaction, and they don't.
You know, I've never actually thought about it that way, and yet it makes the most sense because yeah, I'm totally aware that it's it's what I tell myself, but I've never put it into that context. And even so, I was driving home after leaving the wonderful MRI experience, and I thought far out, what if what if something is actually wrong? Thank God there wasn't, but what if How would I how would I approach the next day
if something was actually wrong? And I thought, well, there's all of these things that I would do, and there's all of this, you know, I guess how I would hold myself and carry myself in my day to day, and I thought, well, why on earth am I waiting for some kind of bad news in order to think that I would do that? And it was this like literally driving down North Road in the sunshine, going yeah, this is this is a complete reframe moment where I
can just do this anyway. So rather than telling myself that continual story of oh, well, I've got to wait until the right time, or I've got to wait until the wind blows in the right direction before I change anything, no, I can just do it.
And it was this moment of.
I guess clarity that you don't have to wait for a bad thing, be absolutely one hundred percent grateful that there is no bad thing, and just get on with it.
Yeah. I think it's funny how, you know, when we get scared or when we think something bad is happening or could happen, we have a shift in perspective right now, you know. And I had it a couple of months ago. I thought I had like prostate cancer, I thought I had diabetes. I thought I had all these things because I had constant thirst. I was weeing seventeen hundred and forty two times a day. You know, all this old manshit was happening and what so I'd nailed it that,
like I had, Like I went to the doctor. He goes, what are you reckons going on? And I said this, I reckon, I've got diabetes and or prostate issues or da da da da, And he went, why do you think that? And I presented my case like a perfect kind of health lawyer, and he went, well, it's maybe, but let's do some let's do some wei tests and some blood tests. And I was completely fucking wrong, like
one hundred percent wrong. I had an infection in my head, right, and that was causing all the symptoms that you know, the wing and the cognitive decline. There was like my brain wasn't working as well because I had an infection in my head and like a whole lot of you know, and a whole lot of stuff, right. But it's like, and when I got that news, I was so happy, and I'm like, oh, look at me. I'm not dying. I'm not dying anytime soon, well hopefully, you know, and
I don't have a disease and I don't. And it's it's funny that in the context of something else, right, you know, where oh you could have Kelly. You could have gone and got some really bad news, but you pretty much got the best news, which is, yeah, you've got an issue, but it's compared to what it could have been. It's a fucking zero, right, And then we're happy, Then we're glad, then we're grateful, then with this, then
with that. But imagine if we found a way to manipulate our personerspective every day every day, so every day you went, hey, I can walk. Fuck, I can get out of a chair and I can walk, and if I have to, I can run. And also I can push a button and there's air conditioning, and I can push another button and there's heat. And also look over here, I've got a fridge with food. And also I can turn on this tap and hot water comes out. Also I've got a bed. Also I live in a safe space.
Or you know, it's like, oh my god, there are so many things that are fucking amazing. Forget money, forget brand, forget you know, sexy cars or whatever. But there's just shit that you and I have at our disposal and tiff every day. Which I know many people, I know more than ten people who would love to be able to do what we totally take for granted most of the time. And so what's the antidote to that good question?
The antidote to that which sounds cheesy, but it is a daily practice, daily practice, not daily for three days, daily for the rest of your life, practice of gratitude. Every day, I'm grateful I can walk every day. I'm grateful I live where I live. Every day. I'm grateful my mum and dad are alive. Every day. I'm grateful I can turn on a tap and get clean, fresh, cold water, because about two billion people in the world can't do that. I don't live on three dollars a
day or less. I don't, you know. So there's just so much shit where when you look at your life and your experience and your situation through a lens of gratitude, but really not rah rah feel good, fucking let's walk on hot coals and you know, chant bullshit, but really you look at life through lens of I am the luckiest motherfucker I am. Call it luck, call it a blessing, call it whatever you want to call it, Call it
a gift. You know, like I truly think that, you know, And every day I see Johnny every day or every time I see my friend Joel, who tiff knows, who lives in a wheelchair, every time I see lots of people that I know that are either battling cancer or the dealing with a significant disability, I just realize that I'm through nothing that I've done, Like I didn't deserve this. I'm just lucky I didn't earn I didn't earn it, and they didn't earn the wheelchair or the brain injury
or the spinal cord injury or the cancer diagnosis. Like shit just happens. And so you know, there are times when I annoy myself for being a fucking winger when in the context of real problems, I have none.
Do you know?
There was a podcast earlier this year, one of yours, and it was about this, and I was having a.
Pretty rough time then.
So I made a wallpaper for my phone that actually says Gratitude is the antidote. And I had it there for months as this daily reminder that absolutely that is that is what helps, That is what can fix the mindset and the perspective every day.
And I still have it saved to when I need to go back to it. And it really it was just a daily reminder that helped me.
Yeah. Yeah, when you think about like, I don't want to be melodramatic, but right now my dad's not awesome, right He's got some health issues.
And.
It's like nothing. If somebody said, hey, Craig, I want all your stuff, like all the stuff you own, everything, all the stuff you own, but I'm going to give your dad one awesome healthy year, I'd be like, where do I sign? Like in a second, I'd live in a fucking tent. I do not care. I go give me that bit of paper.
You know.
It's like in the context of what really matters, What really matters to me are people that I love. What really matters is my dad, is my mum. You know.
It's like yeah, and you go, oh oh so. And that's not to say that having things is bad, but I think when certain things arise in our life, like tragedy, like illness, like you know, certain relationships ending, or certain people passing away, or like the last month or two in my life, there's just been a ridiculous amount of people dying, you know, like like two of my friends have had very close people to them, very close in the last four weeks die and my next door neighbor
right here. I want to say her name, but lovely lady and her daughter died unexpectedly, and you know, and I'm like, oh my god. It's like and then in that moment when I talk to them, I just want to I just want to make it better. I can't, but I just I don't want anything to distract me from that moment with them, And I just you know, when you're like, what can I do? What can I do? I can't really do anything. I can just be here and love you and give you attention and give you
energy and yeah, so again. But I think the challenge is when you know things are going pretty good, to be honest, but in the middle of pretty good, we still find stuff to bitch about and waste emotional and mental energy on and tell ourselves stories of how fucking hard it is. I'm like, you know, I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, so I'll throw me
under the bus. But I'll tell you what. And I've felt sorry for myself about fuck all, and it's like, you know, it's just me inventing a problem.
Yeah, yeah, I've been there quite a number of times. So probably my last question.
Which would go pretty well with what you just said. What's the biggest or most important thing that you've learned this year?
Wow, the biggest or most important thing that I have learned this year? I think, I don't know. I feel the answer. I don't know. But what comes to mind is, and this is going to sound self indulgent, so I'm scared to say it, but I don't mean it too. But lately I've had a lot of messages from people telling me thank you for being you, and I'm like, oh ah, sure, like and like what, I love a lot of men, more men than women. Lately, I had
a guy write me a message yesterday morning. I wrote back to him and I might read it to you, Well, I won't. I won't buy you. I won't read it on here, of course. But it was long and deep and vulnerable and beautiful, and I'm like, like, he's talking to me as though i'm his like a super duper important person in his life. And I guess I've had an awareness that I maybe just the awareness has increased that I do have quite an impact on some people.
And what a responsibility that is. I think That's what I'm trying to say. It's it's a privilege and it's a responsibility. So I need to be really careful because you know, I'm a champion at taking the piss and having fun and being silly, but I also need to be really careful and mindful and aware about what I say to whom and when and how. But yeah, just that privilege of being held in high regard by people and being able to help them without even knowing that
I'm helping them. You know. It's like even you you said, I got this thing that you said from a podcast earlier this year about you know, the solution or the antidote is gratitude, and you wrote, It's like, I get that all the time. I get that where people go. Your stuff is all over my house, But we've got your stuff in my office at work. We've got whiteboards copied printed. I've got your shit on my desk. I've
got like all the time. And strangers that you know, not like five times a day, but at least once or twice a week, somebody goes, harps, thanks for what you do. Love you, You're great. Whatever you know. I'm sure there are a couple that see me and want to call me. I can't and tell me to fuck off,
but they don't because apparently I'm intimidating. But anyway, but yeah, so maybe that maybe just the impact that I have on people more than I thought, but also the responsibility because it's kind of a it's not a burden, but it's a it's something that weighs heavy that I'm I'm showing up in a way that serves people. Really. Yeah, so yeah, what about you, cook? Have you had a
revelation this year? Do you know what she said before everyone when we had a little break, just a micro break, said that that the thing I've realized this year is how great she is. That's what she wanted me to say.
But just giving you a prompt, I thought that's what you were trying. I thought was on the tibia tongue.
Yeah, yeah, he thought that's what I was like.
I could just feel the energy of it, so I thought I'd put it out there. I was just sooner later I guess something in life was going to prove me wrong. And that was the moment.
Yeah you go, okay, but I wouldn't say you were the biggest revelation of the year. Yeah, it don't surprise me that much is there either of you two something this year that's been really if not like an overwhelmingly standout, but something that springs to mind that's been a significant awakening or awareness or lesson or insight for you that's been valuable either of you.
I don't think there's been anything that's I think for me it's more of a it's more realizations of things that you know theoretically, like I know and talk about things theoretically all the time, and then you know, I talked about how the start of this year, like my life is very different this year to last year, but my life is exactly the same. The only thing that changed was my attitude and how I chose to view it all. And I mean, that was just the most
profound experience. That is ridiculous because I literally talk about it. I talk about it, but I had to go and get on a mountain and come home and change one or two things. And next minute I went from oh, I'm so busy, I'm always busy, and I can't this and I can't that. In all of these cages I'd put myself in, and then overnight I was sitting in the same life, going fuck, how lucky am I like all this freedom, all this stuff. Look what I get
to do? Who even gets to do this? I could do whatever I want, whatever I want.
Yeah, I have. Can I have a guess at something that I think has been an awakening or a revelation or a breakthrough for you? Maybe not. I could be totally wrong, but I feel like for you, you've realized that trusting some people is okay. Like I feel like you've opened the trust door with people, because you know, you did have that big fuck off sign on your forehead for the first forty or so years. You know,
you did have that. There was that, But I feel like you trust people more and you've probably I feel like, also, what's the right term, you've softened a bit. You're a bit less adversarial and hard and you're okay with you know, you're still very strong and resilient, but I feel like you've softened a little bit in terms of empathy and you know, opening up to people a little bit.
Yeah, yeah, I feel that.
I think you're right.
Yeah, col.
Biggest thing for me was learning to stop being scared, so just being able to take the steps of you know, hey, a you can I ask you some more questions or you know, I'm going to.
Hit publish on this. I'm going to actually.
Share some things that I've written with people that I know, which was the scariest thing ever and yet the most rewarding thing.
So that's just how much I've held myself back.
The funny thing about fear is you can't think your way out of being scared. You can only act your way out of being scared. You can only do your way out of it, because it's in the doing of the thing that scares you that the volume goes down on the fear.
Yeah, yeah, you know, do you know I call it. There's that story the bear hunt. You know, We're going on a bear hunt, and you can't go over it, you can't go under it, you can't go around it.
You've got to go through it.
And I just kind of it's really well, it's not silly, but because it works for me. But I kind of I think of that over and over when I'm absolutely shit scared of doing something, and it's like, well, you've got to go through it to get over it.
It's the only way, do you know.
One of the most terrifying things for people who are insecure and fearful and have self doubt and imposter syndrome is standing in front of one hundred people or two hundred people, knowing that not because they're bad, but that's just the way humans work, that they are all literally judging you, right like when you get up for the first time and you're new, because we do it too, And that doesn't mean we're looking for a problem or we're being critical, but our immediate kind of go to
as humans is to try to figure out who the fuck that is in front of us. Do I like them? Do I not like them? Are they trustworthy? Are they smart? Are they full of shit? Do I feel safe? Do
I feel unsafe? This is I mean, this is our brain, the protector that's always trying to evaluate and ascertain and judge, and you know, realizing when you start to figure out how people work in minds work and brains work, and you go, ah, I'm literally going to go stand in front of a room and they won't remember much of the first three minutes because all they're doing is evaluating whether or not I'm a fucking idiot or worth listening to. You know, that's terrifying, But how do you get through
that well? You can't sit on the couch and read a book and get through it. You can't talk to someone else about it where you can, but that's not
going to alleviate the fear. It might give you another perspective, which might help, but the only way that you get through that fear is, you know, like you do with your bare analogy, is you just go fucking show up and you know, jump in and do the thing, and know that some people won't like you, and some people won't think you're great, and some people will yeah, cool, cool. You know. I think I've said this ten times over
the years. But one of my in my first time around at UNI, one of my supervisors, who is this great old dude, he said, what did he say? Yeah, if you don't if you want everyone to like you and no one to dislike you, then say nothing, do nothing, be nothing, and stand for nothing. Or basically was saying, if you don't want anyone to dislike you, you know because as soon as you have an opinion or an idea or a story or a purpose, or you take some action, you know that's gonna that's going to fly
with some people and not with others. And you can you can be the best person with the best intentions, doing the best work. There will absolutely be people that for some reason do not like you, and so you've got to prepare for that and that whole lot. It's not fair, it's not yep, correct, it's not fair, but it's super common. So I feel like I banged on too much. Kel thanks for coming out to play. It's nice to see you again.
That was great fun, Tiff, Thank you, Thanks Team.
Chocolate.
I'm going to put my sign copy in the Facebook group and see how much I can get for it.
Yeah, fucking hell. That's hurtful. But there's none left.
There's none left, So you know.
Could you not do that? Because I know it's going to be less than I'm going to get my mum to bid.
This is actually, in all seriousness, it was a pivotal moment for me because I was so still shit scared of talking to you at the gym, and I remember, just before going to do the read through of it, you were there and you're like, have a good day, and I'm like, I'm going to see you in like half an hour and you're like, are you coming, And I'm like yep.
And it was really cool. Yeah, it was great. It was great. It was the start of it all.
You should have got to mention in the book as one of the twenty editors. Next time. Thanks ladies.